Should I Stay or Should I Go? How Self-Love Transformed A Troubled Marriage Into Deep Connection with Jackie Jade Gilstrap

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: And I was like, I really want to embody

that, I really want to take radical responsibility, because

if I take radical responsibility, then it's mine,

I can do something with that. I spent most of my life in victim

blaming other people, and as long as you are a victim, you

have a villain, right? And I remember David telling me, I'm

sick of being your victim, like, and that's that's one of the

things he told me when we separated. If you want to be a

victim, find a different villain. And I remember being so

shocked by that statement, and I was like, he's right, though.

Like, if I take radical responsibility, he's right. And

it's, it really served me. It was really, it was really

beautiful to be a victim, because I didn't have to do

anything, I could just blame

before you get into this week's episode. I'm just

wanted to share a little context about my amazing guest, Jackie

Jade Gilstrap. This is a woman from my heroin community. She

has been to the immersion, she has worked privately with me a

couple of times, and came to Kenya with her entire family

last year. You've definitely heard me talk about her husband

and two boys and her, her super conscious amazing family, and

this powerful episode. She shares her story, and this is

for all the women out there who are trapped, just feeling like

nothing's possible, feeling like you don't believe, like you

listen every week to the podcast, but you don't actually

believe change is possible for you. It is all an inside job.

And she shares her incredibly profound story. And just, just a

heads up, in the beginning, she shares a little bit about a very

tender, very vulnerable time. So, suicide, suicidal thoughts

are mentioned in the beginning, just so you have some awareness

as to what's coming, but it's a really powerful story, and her

whole world is completely different. I'm so proud of her,

and just so in awe of all the women on the journey who have

the courage to follow their truth, go their own way, and

build a life that they love. So, and of course, as a

supplementary benefit, have the most extraordinary loves love in

their lives too. So enjoy, and I'll see you soon. Hello,

beautiful. Welcome to the New Truth Podcast. I am so freaking

happy and excited, and have been so excited about this episode.

We've been talking about it for a while. And hi, Jackie Jade.

Hi, welcome to the other side of the new truth.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Thank you.

So, this beautiful woman sitting before me is a

very close soul sister of mine, who's been on the heroin journey

with me. For those of you that are new to me, that's what we

call the journey of unlocking the heroine and becoming the

heroine of your own life, and unscripting from the miserable,

anxious, perfectly fake scripts that we've all been taught to

lead, and I feel so excited about this conversation. Jackie

Jade and I have been on this journey together for about three

years, we think. And yeah,

wait, when did you come to the immersion? 2024

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yes, 2024 Yeah,

and we started like nine months before, six months

before or something.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, yeah, I think we started the,

yeah, maybe the end of 23 It was the end of 23 I was in your,

your masterclass.

Oh yeah, we have one of those expanded love

master classes coming up. You came to the master class, yes.

So, Jack, Jackie Jade, we call her Jackie Jade. Jackie is her

birth name, Jade is her heroine name, and all the heroines call

her Jackie Jade. And I wanted to have this beautiful woman on the

podcast, because you're, I mean, everyone's journey is

incredible, and it's so beautiful to witness, and I just

feel like yours is so relatable, and it's been so beautiful to

witness you carrying on the journey and watching your life

evolve as you shift your inner world. I feel like you were one

of the ones that was like nothing in the outer world was

shifted, but I feel you know different on the inside. Did you

used to say that, like maybe even a year ago when we started

working together a second time? Yeah.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Oh yeah, for sure. Yep,

yeah, and then all of a sudden this year is when

everything started changing externally, and it's been so

beautiful to witness. I just feel like your story is so

relatable, and I just.. I want every woman to hear this story

and to remember how possible it is to completely transform our

lives, and I feel like your story too is special, because

this conversation about should I stay or should I go, and so many

women get stuck in that dilemma and question their relationship

for years and stay stuck in their head about it, and you

came on this journey. And yeah, I actually would love to for you

to tell, because that your, your story, but we'll start with the

beginning, where, when, when you first sought me out, you and

David, your husband, were, were you separated? You were already

separated. Yes,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yeah, we were already separated. Yeah,

so take us there, you were already separated, and

now actually I'll fast forward. Now they're in a really healthy,

thriving, amazing relationship, and we'll get to that. But so

the should I stay or should I go dilemma. Often I think we think

like, oh, we should leave, and we just have to get to the place

where we should leave. So tell us, what your life was like,

what your life felt like before you found the new truth, before

you, we started this journey together, and yeah, let's start

there.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Who, it's completely different. It's

actually, it's difficult to go back to how I was living and

what that felt like, but actually, before I found the new

Truth podcast, I was probably at the worst and darkest place of

my life. I remember sitting in, so I did. I made just custom

epoxy bottles, it was kind of a hobby of mine, but I would do it

in the garage, and I would sit in this chair in the garage, and

I always knew that there was a gun underneath the chair, and I

never touched it, but I would have thoughts of, like, oh, it

would be so much easier, and they would be better off without

me. That's how dark it got,

and your husband and your two, yeah, my husband

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: and my two boys, yeah. So, yeah, it had at

the time they were, you know, 1211, 12, something like that,

and I just felt like I wasn't, I wasn't doing any good for them,

I wasn't. I didn't feel like a good role model. I didn't feel

like I was equipped to be a mother. I barely knew how to

live my own self, live my own life. I was like, what am I

doing raising these two boys? I'm not doing them any favors.

So, anyways, and then my husband and I decided to get a

separation, and in that separation I really thought when

I left I thought I'm, and like I questioned myself, like, am I in

an abusive relationship, like, is this what this looks like,

like, am I actually in an abusive relationship, and then

we separated, and I realized, oh gosh, yeah, I am, I am in an

abusive relationship, but it wasn't with my husband, it was

with me, I was abusing myself, yeah, the, the way I talked to

myself in my head was I would never talk to another person

like that ever, and I don't know why I thought it was okay to

talk to myself like that, but I couldn't be alone, I couldn't

have space, I couldn't go on a walk without music or a podcast

or something, and yeah, so it was hard. Thank you for sharing

all that love, and I imagine I know so many people get to that

place where it's just like you feel like there's nowhere to

turn, like nothing you do when you don't have the tools and the

resources and the awareness and the guidance and support.

It, I mean, how many people are living in such

discord and such misery because they don't know what they don't

know, and I would love to hear about, like, so from this place

of this abusive relationship inside, what did your

relationship look like before you got separated? What did it

feel like? What did it look like?

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: It felt threatening. It just felt like,

yeah, that we were at odds all the time. We were so misaligned.

I thought I felt like he was constantly being critical, which

was interesting, because I felt like he was constantly judging

me, which is interesting. Yeah, yeah,

and so you were just triggered all the time,

because you felt like, oh, triggered all the time judging

you, but actually you were just internalizing everything he was

saying and doing because you were criticizing you and you

were judging you inside, yeah,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yeah, and I felt like I had to defend,

defend, defend, and yeah, it just, it became just too

difficult, and he's the one actually who asked for the

divorce, and I fought it for a long time. I did not want a

divorce. I really did not want a divorce. And one day I was like,

I just can't. I'm tired, I'm so tired, I can't do this anymore.

And so I said, okay. And two weeks later I moved out, I.

Yeah, and

then what? So you moved out, and you got your own

place with the boys.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, yeah, the boys and I moved out,

and it's interesting because wherever you go, there you are,

right? So in that separation, I was faced with myself, and

that's when I realized, like, I was in an abusive relationship

with myself, and I also had to ask myself, like, would I want

my boys to marry a woman like me,

and

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: I didn't. I didn't want me for them, and

so that was when I was like, oh crap, like, maybe I'm, I, maybe

I need help, you know. And so I went where most people probably

go, and they just find a quick therapist, or someone that they

can like better help, or something like that. And I had,

she was lovely, but she did, you know, she just validated me,

which was so fun, and I really enjoyed the validation, but I

knew I was like not going to change. Nothing is going to

change in this space of validation. Like, I really need

someone who can see me and can lovingly hold a mirror up, and I

didn't. David sees me, my husband is David. David sees me,

but I didn't feel at the time he was holding a loving mirror up,

you know? I just felt like he was shoving a mirror in my face,

and it was hard to hear, and I think it's also hard to hear

from your partner,

for sure. And that's the masculine too, right?

And he's just like, he's like, hey, I see your potential, I see

what's possible here, like, come on, just do it, just do

something different, but without awareness or tools or guidance,

like, how do we even do that? It's, it's, you know, it's a

nice thought, but I feel like David was part of your seed

planting team, that more is possible, because he did see

you, and he did see what was underneath,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yeah, the, and you know, and I, so I

started listening to it, was another podcast, and you and

Catherine were actually interviewed on that podcast. I

was like, "Wait, who are these women? And so that's when I

found the New Truth Podcast, and I started listening to it, and

both of you really held up a loving mirror, and I was like,

"Oh crap, like I do that, you know, I do that. Oh my gosh,

this is me. And I would find myself in tears, but then, like,

you're left with.. but how.. I guess had such a desire, such a

desire to be better, to feel better, to have peace. But how..

I didn't.. I didn't know how. And so, yeah, so I reached out

and on, and you did the masterclass. It's funny that

you did. You did the.. did you do the masterclass before we

started working together? They expanded the masterclass, not

tell me. Let's talk a little bit about that, because there's one

coming up on june 19, so many first. I haven't done it in over

a year, and I'm doing a three day version now, but you did the

five. The original version was the five day expanded love

masterclass, where I teach the five saboteur archetypes, so you

like start to like really see your patterns. So, what was that

for you?

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: That was interesting, because on the

podcast you had talked about celebrating yourself for your

birthday, and you know the masterclass at that time just

happened to fall on the week of my birthday, and I was like, oh,

maybe I could, because we were separated at the time, and so I

was like, you know what, I am going to celebrate myself, and

so I took myself to a really fancy hotel, and just spent the

night, spent some days alone, and I spent, you know, time at

the pool, and in between I would listen to the masterclass, and

on my actual birthday, you did the isolator, and I almost

didn't even log in, because I thought I'm not an isolator,

like that doesn't, that doesn't resonate with me at all, and I

was on the floor crying, because I was like, oh my gosh, like,

and I felt like I related, I felt like I related to every

single archetype, I was like, oh wow, like, I, I, yeah, might

have a problem because I had, because I had signed up for the

masterclass, you and I had a phone call, and that's when I

decided I was like, yeah, I think I, I need to, I need to

invest in myself, and so that's when we started working, I think

it was like September, and my birthday is in August,

right? So it was like your gift to yourself for

this new beginning, reclaiming everything.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, and you know, we talked about, we

talked about the immersion, and I had just moved out, I had just

separated, I had just started a new job that I knew nothing

about, and I was like, you know, I felt it in my heart, and I

felt it in my body. Yes, the immersion is a yes, but the how

I had no clue what's gonna make that happen, and that it was

either that week or the next week, so I was in roofing and.

In roofing, if you have a major storm that equals a lot of

money, but we were at the end of storm season. Storms, storm

season usually ends the beginning of August, and we're

already well into September, and it was November. Yeah, it was

November. We had a massive, massive hailstorm, and that

storm alone paid for the entire trip, and then some. And I was

like, I remember calling you, I was like, "You are not going to

believe this, like, what just happened? I

certainly believe that that's the universe, and

you are always supported when you're, when you're willing,

when you're willing to say yes to yourself, even if you don't

know the how, you know the how is such a question of the mind.

We never need to know the how. How am I going to find love? How

am I going to find my purpose? How am I going to come to the

immersion? It's like, if it's a yes, get into alignment with

your decision, and life will lead you there. That is amazing.

She lives in Texas, at Austin. If anyone's wondering, like,

what do you mean storm season in the summer, and yeah,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: and it was like unheard of that you would

get a hailstorm in November, like it just, it just doesn't

happen, so yeah,

that's amazing, that's it, that's it, definitely

life is leading, so you, so you're separated from David.

You're like on the ver.. so you're starting to.. did you

feel some hope when you were starting to realize that? And

not.. it's not that you were the problem. I think this happens

like, oh, I'm the problem, I'm the common denominator. Your

partner played 50% of the dynamic, and you play 50% of the

dynamic, and what one person might look worse on paper, you

know, the cheater looks worse on paper, or the narcissist looks

worse on paper, but, but a pattern can only exist, and we

can only attract, we can only attract a certain type of

pattern if we are living from ours, and so, as you started to

have this awareness, and I love that you, as soon as I mean,

it's so beautiful that you got to that, like, oh, wherever you

go, there you are, like, I think my marriage is a problem, and

then I'm alone, and I'm still in an abusive relationship, and now

I need to go on a journey to figure that out, and that's

amazing that you had that awareness and that courage to

even the starting with the therapy that was the validation

that wasn't separate from the journey that was part of it,

right, that was a stepping stone that then led you to the podcast

that then led you to another podcast that then led you to to

the masterclass that then led you to the path, and so yeah,

tell me, tell us about the journey like this, and my

intention and hope with this episode is like that all the

women who are sitting there still believing like this is

really nice and all these things are great in theory, but how and

is it actually possible for me, right? And it's like so many of

us when we're living in our wounded self, so many of us just

feel broken and, and like, like it's just not possible, or it's

too far away. What was your experience like once you started

the journey, and of of rebuilding that relationship

within yourself?

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: I relate to that. I'm too broken, it's

too far gone, and I, yeah, I did not, I did not have any hope in

reconciling with David, for sure. I didn't even have a

desire to do that when I started, and so when I don't

know if you remember when I started working with you, I was

like, I'm separated from my husband, I don't want to talk

about him, I don't want to talk about my relationship, I don't

want to talk about men, I don't want to talk about dating. I

just want to talk about me, and so you didn't even know his

name, like, and it was when we started, it was at the end of

our journey, right, that I was like, oh my gosh, like we're

kind of considering reconciling, and you're like, what is his

name, so because I knew I couldn't do anything about him,

you know, like he's just going to be who he is, and I don't

have any control over that. I needed to focus on me, and I was

like, I want to date me, I want to date, I want to have a

relationship with me, and yeah, it's interesting. I started just

looking at everything through a different lens, and I would

notice this was a big, this was a big transition. I noticed the

thoughts I had about him in my mind. I would turn it around

because I was so critical, I was so judgmental, and I was like,

oh, wow, like I really am so critical of myself, and I'm so

judgmental of myself, and I'm just projecting that onto him,

but then as I started doing that, it was interesting,

because I could see his projections onto me too, and I

was like, oh, that's interesting, and so I just like

took a step. Back and just looked out of just curiosity,

and I was like, what's happening here? Because I didn't, I didn't

want, I didn't want to reconcile with him.

I think this part is, I don't think we

could,

yeah, important, because so many women who are in

this, should I, sir, should I go conversation. I remember being

in it in so many relationships, and I, I always thought, like,

oh, it's just gonna be way easier to have someone new,

like, or to be on my own than just like try and revive this,

this guy, this thing that I don't want to have sex with him,

or I'm not attracted to him, like, it's it's often

impossible, sometimes we want to reconcile, but like, it's, I

feel like it's more than it feels like the grass is greener

over there, we just don't have the courage to leave, so I think

that part of your story is so important that you didn't want

to reconcile, and you didn't even think it was possible,

because it's so beautiful. I mean, obviously they're going to

hear on the journey of your story when we get to the end

what your relationships like, like, is is like now, and I've

now spent time with your whole family in Kenya, and and I've

talked about them, actually. This is Jackie Jade, the famous

couple I talk about that came to Kenya with their shit after the

retreat. Her husband and boys came to Kenya. Like, this is

you. We've, I've talked about you guys so many times on the

podcast over the last few months, and like, you're so..

you inspire me, your whole family, and your relationship,

and your. and. and. and. and it's so it's so amazing to see

that it's like David wasn't working with me, David wasn't,

you know, yes, he's self-aware, yes, he's got his own things,

but he was not like on the path, you were devoted, and I think

that piece, too, is so important, of the I wanted to

date myself, like, may every woman who's in the dilemma of

should I stay or should I go, it's like that's the trap, is

the fucking ping pong game in your mind trying to figure out

if the person is right or wrong for you versus the deep desire

to want to like just date and go on a journey of reclaiming all

that's inside of you, because all we're longing for that we're

trying to get from our partner, because the fairy tale fantasy

bullshit story fed us instilled a belief in us that they hold

the key, and if it's not him, it's somebody else, but actually

the key was inside of you all along, and so that alone, like

that desire to be like, take my attention off him, and I want to

devote this year to me, and you really did like a love that I

didn't know his name, and the fact that that led you to being

in a place where you were actually aligned again, which

you didn't believe was possible, like that is huge.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, and I did, I did date myself, like I

took myself on dates before working with you, I had never

gone out to eat by myself, and I would intentionally choose a

day, and I'm like, I'm going to go to a nice restaurant and

treat myself, and I'm going to treat myself the way I would

want someone to treat me. So I was not on my phone, I put my

phone away, and I was like, I want to be present with myself,

and that was one thing that I learned at the immersion was

there was so much presence and so much eye contact, and I

really realized, wow, I don't have much eye contact in my

personal life, and it's like I went back home and I was like, I

can't demand people be more present with me, and so I was

like, you know, what, I'm going to be present with myself. And

so I had this like thick, cushy mat in my room, and I sat on

that for hours. I mean, I've sat on that mat for hundreds of

hours, just in silence, sometimes with like meditative

music. I didn't necessarily quote meditate, but I was with

myself,

meditating, it's the meditative form, it doesn't,

yeah,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yeah, and I realized, like, as I did that,

the one of the boys would come in and I was available, right,

so you know, one of them would come in and start talking to me,

and of course, like I was present with them, and so we

would sit and have a conversation, and then another

one would come in, and then before I knew it, I noticed,

like, wow, we're all in here, like, including my husband, and

I was like, wow, this is so interesting, how this happens,

yeah,

it's amazing.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Well, and also, in not talking about

David, when we started working together, was I just.. I

remember you talking so much about radical responsibility,

radical responsibility, and I was like, I really want to

embody that. I really want to take radical responsibility,

because if I take radical responsibility, then it's mine.

I can do something with that. I spent most of my life in victim

blaming other people, and as long as you are a victim, you

have a villain, right? And so that, and I remember David

telling me, I'm sick of being your victim, like, and that's

that's one of the. Things he told me when we separated, he's

like, "Find a different, find a different villain if you want to

be a victim, find a different villain. And I remember being so

shocked by that statement, and I was like, "He's right, though,

like if I take radical responsibility, he's right. And

it's.. it really served me. It was really.. it was really

beautiful to be a victim, because I didn't have to do

anything, I could just be

able might not be the right word, it was like the

right word. How did it feel? How did it feel

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: at the moment, right? And when you're,

you know, when I was blaming it, felt good, right, because I'm

self-righteous. This is, you know, it's not me, it's them.

Look how better I am. But yeah. yeah, it doesn't. That's very

short term, doesn't last

loneliness anxiety. It's like, yeah, because the ego

saboteur gets off on righteousness, and on, because

we've been trained in that, right? You think, I mean, look

at, look at the media, look at the government, look at, look at

all these systems around us, this school system, that

everything's about good and bad, and right and wrong, and you're

wrong, your neighbor's wrong, and you're right, and it's all

like I'm going to puff myself up in this moment, so you feel bad

and small, and I'm going to make you wrong, or I'm going to make

you put you on a pedestal, and I'm going to make myself wrong

and bad and small, and, and regardless, you feel horrible

after either way, like, because it doesn't actually, I love what

you said, it's like the only thing you can control is your

yourself, and like the only place we can make new choices is

ourselves, and how we, I mean, it is such a self-fulfilling

prophecy to blame other people for how we feel, and for what

we're experiencing, and even still blaming our parents for

what happened in childhood. It's like everyone, everyone did the

rest doesn't mean you're not going to have feelings that need

to be felt and processed, but the parent, we need to like,

because it's in the journey of becoming the parent to yourself

and giving the love that you're all of our parents did their

best, and nobody taught them how, and they're all traumatized

children having children, and so to be able to give ourselves the

thing that they couldn't give us is the most important thing. And

then when we stop pointing the finger, our life actually

changes, like nothing changes when you're blaming everyone

else, because then you, like David said, you just keep

filling in that villain role, and it's like, oh, today it's

your boss, tomorrow it's your parents, the next day it's your

husband, the next day it's your child, like it's.. it's just

pointing the finger and self-fulfilling prophecy of

misery or anxiety or depression or discord.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, yeah, it's so true. And I did, I

blamed my parents for a long, long time, but you know, you're

right. They were traumatized children, having children, as I

was. I was a traumatized child, raising children, and I was

doing the best I could with what I had, knowing I was hurting

them. Like, deep down, I knew I was hurting them, and I didn't

know what to do. I didn't know how I could do better. I didn't

know it was even possible. Yeah,

it's survival, right? Because if no one gives,

gives us, isn't it wild, like all the things we have to take

tests for and study for in school, none of it's like

relevant to life. And then the things that are the most

relevant to life that we need to know, nobody teaches us, and

nobody, there's no exams, there's no studying, there's no

learning. There's no, no awareness. So, what was your

like? Take us back to that first year of your journey, and

starting to repair and heal that relationship within. What did

you start to notice was changing in your life?

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: One thing was, I had a story in my mind,

right, and I was in a fluke of I'm a bad mom, I'm a bad mom, a

floop, and getting to the other side of that was life changing,

but also I realized how many stories I had, and getting to

the other side, being able to close that loop to learn how to

actually close that loop was when it all started changing,

but when I started taking radical responsibility for my

emotions and not outsourcing it is also was a huge change for

me. I outsourced everything. If I was unhappy, you were unhappy,

you know. If I was happy, you better be happy. Like, it was

very, very intermeshed and codependent. And there were..

there was actually one time, it was before David and I

reconciled, but I was having big emotions that had nothing to do

with him, but I was having a big emotion, and he just happened to

be witness to it, and it was really interesting that he

didn't jump like he normally would jump in to try to rescue

me, and I think it's because he felt I had it and I could flow

with my. Emotions, and he could just be witness to it, and be

kind of like you say, the banks of the river, which felt safe to

him. He was like, I can do this, right, like I can, I can be the

banks, and I would.. I got to the place where I was like, and

I feel safe with my emotions, I feel safe flowing with my

emotions. Before it was, I didn't feel safe in my emotions,

so I would crash into his bank, and I would pull him into the

river, and we would be, we would be in this, like, you know,

canoe with, you know, oars, and I'm trying to control

everything, and he's like, "What the hell is happening? Yeah.

yeah, and it's like looking back, I'm like, wow, like I

really, I really put that poor guy through it. Oh, but yeah,

and like you showed me how, right? Like, you showed me how

do you get to the other side, and I, when I started working

with you, I was like, I am going to fully, fully trust this

process, because what I have been doing obviously hasn't been

working, and I had such a desire to heal. Period. I just wanted

to heal, and I wanted to feel safe and peace, and I wanted to,

I wanted to enjoy space, if that makes sense. I just wanted to

enjoy expansion, you know. You hear people talk about it, I'm

like, what does that feel like? Because I had to be distracted,

I had to have something going on. Yeah,

I'm even just feeling into as you're talking,

like it's.. it's that feeling, you know, when you like at the

end of the immersion, or when we get on Zoom after the immersion,

and everyone talks, and everyone looks and is so different, and

we're all like, oh my.. we just had our post-immersion call last

weekend from the one that just happened in May, April, and May,

and, and we were all short circuiting, like, wait, what,

you look so different, you're so different, like that, that,

that, like, oh my god, I mean, it surprises me every time, even

though I've been doing, I've done now 11 of them, it's it,

I'm just feeling into your energy and remembering back to,

like, you were always kind, but the like, the rigidity of you

and the closed like isolator. It's so funny that that was the

one you were like, "I don't need an eye. You were such an

isolator. Oh my god, Karen, Karen, you're saboteur, but

it's.. it's like even just the energetically as you share your

story, like feeling your softness and your heart energy

and your beauty, and it's, it's, it's such a different frequency

that you live from now, and it's amazing, it's amazing, and it's

this story is so important, and there, I mean, there's so much

more, we got so much more to go, but this story is so important

because it's so relatable, you know, and so many people just

get stuck in the life of distraction, and I know,

especially this topic, it's a really, really painful one, like

all the women who are trapped in whether it's a long-term

relationship or a marriage, where you're like, you part of

you doesn't believe you can leave, you don't, you don't like

financially, or you don't think you're capable, or you don't

want to hurt other people, or you, and just this like

captivity that so many women live in, and they think they're

in captivity with this relationship that's out of

alignment, but where they're actually in captivity is inside

of themselves in the prison of their saboteur, really,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yeah. Yeah, you know, it's interesting

when I, before we separated, you talk about women crying in the

closet. I spent a lot of time crying in the closet, and when I

moved out, I spent a lot of time crying in the closet, you know,

yeah, that's interesting,

yeah, and I remember,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: you know, and like single women, I know

some pet will say, like, I was just so lonely, I just want a

partner, yeah, I never felt more lonely in my life than sleeping

next to my husband,

that's it, and we're lonely, and, and it, and

it's because it's because we've bought into the fantasy that the

solution to loneliness is having someone next to you, and even if

it's like the most amazing man in the world, if you're not home

and you can't receive that love and you're in your patterns or

in your saboteur, it's a very lonely place, because no matter

what, you can't even let it in.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, and he is, he is an amazing, amazing

man, and I'm so grateful that I didn't miss it, I didn't miss

him. Him, I didn't miss seeing him, and I didn't miss him

seeing, really seeing me, and I didn't even realize he already

did, like, so see me, I just didn't see myself.

Yeah, and that's what broke his heart, and why he

was so hard on you, because men grow through challenge, and

women grow through praise, and so he,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yeah,

I saw your soul and helped reflect that, and your

saboteur, and but like, and so that's why you needed the

softness and the love to actually open and to heal and to

see yourself, but he always saw you, and that's why it was so

hard for him as a man, because he was like, what the fuck, why

are you being this weird version of yourself when this is

actually who you are, but obviously it just doesn't work,

because a, we can't hear it from our partners ever, never, and

you needed the feminine, you needed some someone who could

do, who could see you, and reflect your soul with love, and

reflect your patterns with love,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: and we worked on, in the beginning, we

worked on receiving, because I just, I had a hard time

receiving, and so I remember, you know, you would, you told me

if he does something nice for you, like stop, take a moment,

breathe, feel it, receive it, and it was like an active

practice for me, you know. He would do something nice for me,

and I'd have to like actively stop and be like, okay, let me

receive this. Yeah, and it's like that's all he wanted to do

was to give, but he also, when you know, when we separated,

he's like, it's never enough, it's never enough for you.

It's that, that is literally as every single man

inside of every single relationship is nothing I ever

do is enough. And why? Because all they want is us to be in

alignment, to be happy, but they're so there, and they

believe on some level the little boy inside of every man believes

they're responsible for making Mommy happy, really, and the

woman's happy, and it's part of the training, and no matter

what, it's never enough for a woman, because most women are in

their wounded little girl in relationship, and their

saboteur, and it's a little girl that believes she's not enough,

and she's trying to fill the void of not enoughness, which is

a bottomless pit with his external validation, and like,

oh, once he does this, then I'll feel enough. Once we get

married, then I'll feel enough. Once he, like, eye gazes with me

when we have sex, or he tells me that I'm the most beautiful

woman in the world, or he, like, buys me something, or what?

Like, it's like never-ending. It's insatiable. The saboteurs

really get love, and that's why men are like, "What the fuck?

I'm doing so much for her. I literally have changed my whole

self and everything, which, of course, is not the answer,

because it's a bottomless pit. You can't, they can never, they

will never fill that void. It's like what you've learned how to

do is how to awaken and empower the heroine that's waiting, the

sovereign woman who's always been there, and what's the word,

appoint her as the leader of your life, so that she can tend

to those young parts when they're there, so that she can

let that little girl, little Jackie, know that she is enough,

so that she can pour the love and the give the gifts and the

presence and all, and all the attention, and all the things

that little girl longs for, we can only receive it from

ourselves, only like that is the only, this is the most important

journey of all, is healing that relationship within, and from

that place, now you are living from the heroine, because if

you're tending to those young parts from that sovereign woman,

you're living from the heroin, and now other people are able to

meet you in a different place. Now, David, I imagine, doesn't

feel responsible for your happiness anymore, because

you've taken him off the hook for that, and now he just gets

to bask in your happiness, and bask in your turn on, and bask

in your, your love of your life, and also like hold space for

your feelings, but not feel responsible for them because

you've taken responsibility

and same with him. I don't feel responsible for his

happiness and for his, you know, for his feelings. Yeah, it's so

true. Speaking

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: of him, speaking of David, he just got

think he just got home

over there. Speak of the angel. So, okay, so your

relationship with David has evolved, and, and, and I think

even so much in the last year or two. So, Jack, so Jackie Jade

and I went on the journey with the immersion, we did like nine

months together, and the immersion, and then you took a

break, and then Montany kept going on your own journey, and

then we got back together last year, and then you came to

Kenya, and we did some similar one on one, and this, it really

feels like, I mean, so much has changed in this last year, but I

feel like, too, your relationship, that your

intimacy, or whatever you feel compelled to share. But like I

feel like that has just kept deepening and growing,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yes, yeah, and when we originally decided

to reconcile, it was slow, it was a slow process, brick by

brick, like building it intentionally, obviously there

were bumps in the road, obviously, but working

opportunities always and forever

opportunities for growth, and that's all it is.

It's not like a barrier, it's just like, oh, here we get to

deepen, really,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yeah. And how we navigate conflict now is

so different than the way we navigated before, and actually I

have, so I have a girlfriend who lives on the same property as

us, which that would have never been able to be possible before,

but now she's here and she's witness to our relationship, and

she's been witness to our relationship from day one. She,

I've been friends with her long before I even knew David, and

it's interesting to see to hear her reflection on how we

navigate things and discussions that we have, because she's

witnessed, she's been witness to some of them, and she's like,

it's just so different how you guys navigate and how you

respond, she's like, I feel like things like this would have

derailed you for days, if not weeks, and you'd hold on to it,

and there would be resentment and anger and blame, and all of

that, and it's just so different now, and yes, every, I feel like

every year is different. I feel deeper. I'm able to actually

feel deeper in my pain, because I feel safer in feeling deeper

in that, but because I can feel deeper into my pain, I feel

deeper into my happiness and deeper into my heart as well,

and that was unexpected. I just, that's been kind of an

unexpected surprise, to be honest, and I feel I feel deeper

with my children, and I, you know, when I had my first child,

even, you know, when David and I got married, like, I thought I

loved him, you know, and when I had my first child, I thought I

loved him, and yeah, I did. I loved them to the best, to the

capacity that I had. Full stop. To

the depth, because, as you said, you'd feel deeper.

Yeah, couldn't feel that deep, because the isolator, you had

the barrier.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, and I don't know, just learning from

you how to, how to navigate big feelings in a healthy way has

helped me to go deeper into my pain, and I feel like there was

like a, like a leak in my soul that I didn't really realize was

there, and then I had an awareness that, oh, I have this

leak, but I didn't know how to stop it. I, it was still

leaking, and in working with you, it's like you've taught me

how to truly repair the leak, and yeah, so I, and I've told

you this so many times, but I do want to say it publicly, like

you have absolutely changed my family for generations, because

they're going to choose a different woman, they're going

to choose a different woman than they would have had I not gone

on this journey, and that will change their family and, and

their children if they choose children, so I'm like deeply

grateful,

and the, the, the, I remember walking at the Hub

Mall in Karen and Kenya with you, and you said after I met

the boys and, and all three of them, David and and Peyton and

Blake hurt. Oh my god, Jackie Jade has the most beautiful

family on earth, and yes, they're like really conscious

now. So I hope you do write a book about how you are, like I'm

inspired by you, I learned from you. I don't have kids, I don't

have a husband, so I learned from watching how you've applied

that it's an inside job. Some people are like, how, like, how

can you help me? You're not, you've never been married, or

you don't have kids, or you don't, whatever. It's like it's

an inside fucking job, but it's like so beautiful for me to like

guide you home and guide you to heal your heart, and then to

witness and be inspired, and learn from you, and how you

navigate this conscious family. Her boys, oh my god, they're

first of all the most beautiful creatures on earth, on the

outside, but the inside, like these boys are like, how old are

they now? 14 and 1614, they're magical, like we sat. Around in

my cottage in Karen in Nairobi, and, and just had the deepest

conversations, and I was looking up everyone's astrology and

looking up everyone's human design, and we were geeking out

on all this stuff, and they're just like so present and so

conscious and so loving, and just like a different

completely, I mean, teenage boys, and they're present, and

we met. They were so excited to meet me, and when we met at the

mall, and anyways, I remember you walking us, walking in the

mall, and the first time you told me when either my boys

propose I'm gonna, I'm gonna pay for their, their partners to go

through the immersion, and actually get to know their,

their heroines inside, and I just think, like, be the change

in the world you wish to see. The boys are going to call that

forward, just like you've called it forward in your whole family.

You're the only one who went on this journey, and yet everyone

is in a totally different place, because you had the courage and

the commitment and the devotion. You know, that's what that's

what has made your journey so significant, and we're not even

done the story. I mean, I just think there's so many magical

pieces that need to be shared here, but it's like you had to

devote yourself to showing up and doing, like you said, every

weird thing I invited you to do, every every download, every

assignment, like you showed up so fully for yourself, and you

completely transformed your entire family, and now even your

parents, and you're like the ripple effect of that, and like

you said, healing the family for generations. Like, yes, I have

given you the map, the roadmap, but I've given many women the

roadmap, and yes, many women have totally changed their

lives. The women who have are the ones who actually show up

and show up and show up and are willing to, because our

saboteurs are lazy. Our saboteurs are like, it's easier

to just drink three glasses of wine, numb my feelings, and then

feel like shit again tomorrow. It's easier to take

antidepressants, like numb it all. It's easier to stuff my

face or to be addicted to my phone, and just, but it's like

that is not easier, that is so painful and dark, and you know,

but I feel like this conversation will spark

inspiration for so many women to like, actually, like I have to

show up for myself now,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yeah, it is an inside job for sure. I

remember I was having big feelings about my mom, something

that had happened, and I was so mad, and you were like, 'Go to

the mirror, go have a conversation, say everything you

would never say to her face, say it to the mirror, and by the.. I

mean, it didn't take very long, and I was like,

it's always an inside job,

yeah, yeah,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yeah,

and it's also like the most empowering thing in the

world that we have that like tool in our tool belt to be able

to just like own it, because like you said earlier, we cannot

change other people, and so, like, if we can't own it, you're

powerless, and then you're, you're miserable, because you,

then you're at the affect of everything else, but when you

get in the driver's seat, and you take full responsibility for

everything, that's when your life changes.

Yes, yep, it's so true. Yeah,

so you were talking about your friend that's living

with you, and how she's reflecting how much your

relationship is different. What's different now? What does

she see? What do you see? What do you feel? What's different,

besides, like you said, conflicts you handle that

differently. But if you were to, like, take us a little deeper

there, I

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: I think the biggest difference is how I

see myself is well, I think it's because it's an inside job,

right? How I see myself, how I feel about myself is now

projected onto him in a way, like I see him so differently

now. I respect and love him so differently, and I thought I

respected and loved him before, but I don't think I did, and I

really, really respect and honor him now. One big difference, and

this - this wasn't when she moved here, but maybe about a

year ago I was like, I will never talk about him behind his

back negatively ever again. He is my partner, and I don't want

someone doing that to me. I'm not going to do it to him. And

so there was a conflict. This was actually just a couple of

days ago, and I, my girlfriend reached out to me for something,

and I said, I can't, I can't talk right now. I was like, it's

just, I just need some space, and it's like, it's just a hard

morning. And we just, I just don't talk about him, and I

don't talk about, I don't, it feels like gossip now, and I

don't, I don't want to gossip, because it doesn't, it. Doesn't

serve me, it doesn't serve him. Certainly, my friend, it doesn't

serve my friend either. You know, like it's not healthy for

her to be dumped on like that, or so. Yeah, I guess that's one

of the biggest changes in our relationship is just, I guess.

How I respect him,

because you love and respect yourself. Now you

see him differently, because you're seeing.. I see, and also

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: differently. Yeah, I receive him. I receive

him differently, for sure. Like he, his love language, that's

not his love language, but he shows love through constructive

criticism, because he sees people at their highest, and

he's like, "I'm not gonna let you skate, I am gonna call you

to your highest, and I was very threatened by that before, and

now I'm like, "Oh, thank you, you know, like, thank you for

pointing that out. It's not easy, right? Like, I still need

a moment. I'm like, I still need a process. I'm not gonna, you

know, smiles and balloons, but I am able to actually take it in

and process it, and go, is this true? Like, is this, is this

true for me, or is it not? And

if it stings, it is, and it, and it's even like

even that language of constructive criticism. It's

like really just reflection, right? And it's like people are

reflecting either through their behavior, through their response

to us, they're just reflecting like where we're coming from

within ourselves, or through direct language. He's giving you

a reflection, and you get to feel what stings, and then

that's the place to look right and what doesn't resonate, and

then that's the place to be, like, oh, that doesn't feel

true, but this is the part that feels sticky, and that, that's

the, the gift, and, like, I said before, like, that's the

masculine way, right, to challenge, and to, to do so in

an, with, without the lube, like men just like to stick it in, no

pun intended, pun intended, but they, because that's how they

grow, they love that, like typically the masculine love,

like, tell me it straight up, don't sugarcoat it, don't

lubricate it, whereas women are tender and delicate, like we

need some some softening, but also the part of you that feels

the contraction or the pain around it that you then just

feel and take space for, which is so beautiful, is just the

girl, it's just the small self, the wounded self.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, who's going to be there forever

and ever, but you've taught me how to live with her in a

healthy way,

yeah.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: And how to have a different relationship

with her,

so she's not leading,

but she's still heard, and she's still, you know,

honored and respected. Yeah,

yeah, cuz when she's there, it's like she -

those are the moments she needs the heroine inside of you, Jade.

She needs the divine mama inside of you to give her what she

could not get as a child, right? It's like that's how these

moments of activations are actually gateways of healing and

transformation. If we know how to be with ourselves and love

ourselves through them, because none of our little girls got

what we needed, no matter what our family looked like, and you

know, whether they were happy-go-lucky, you know what,

it didn't, doesn't matter, like all of our parents were

repressed, all of the systems repressed them, repressed us,

the programming we've been raised in, patriarchal, like,

higher, I'm the boss of you. I'm in charge. I tell you what to

do. I tell you who to be. I tell you, like, all of the systems

repress our nature, and so that's where our parents are

coming from. And that, so those, like, as adults, as sovereign

women, those little girls get to heal every time someone

activates you, it's a gift, because that gets to be a deeper

layer of healing, and, like you said before, how you've, through

being, learning how to be with your feelings, you're starting

to feel even your pleasure and your joy so much more

expansively because of your willingness to feel your pain,

and that is huge, and I imagine that transfers into other arenas

in your romantic relationship too, your ability to feel

deeply.

Yes, yeah,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yes, yeah,

yeah. We have a different relationship there

too. Will you tell us anything? PG version,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: I don't know,

you don't have to give details, but my parents

are, don't give details, but yeah, just in a high level,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yeah, when, like, we're other than,

like, the physical, right, the physical has changed this. So,

yes,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: but when we are being physical, it

doesn't feel as transactional. It feels like I'm actually able

to receive him, and I have so much gratitude that he's willing

to give of himself to me, and it creates such a different dynamic

and connection, and it's like when, but the thing is, when I'm

not in that space, right, it changes.

Yes, but

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: when I am in that space, it changes, just

like you know, you've said so many times, like the game - only

one person needs to change the rules of the game, and the game

changes. It's so true, like that. I've, I see it in every

relationship that I have, to be honest, but I really, really

witness it there, you know, in, in the bedroom too, and it's

like the more vulnerable I can be, the more vulnerable he can

be with me as well, and the more I am allowing him to see me,

like really just see all of me, the more he wants to be with me,

and it's interesting because, like, I'm older, and I'm

probably, like, physically, if you were to say, like, the least

attractive in our marriage, right? But he's the most

attracted to me now.

You're way more attractive when you're in your

heroine than when you're in your soul, as is every woman. I think

of the immersion we have, like, 78 year olds who come to the

immersion, who are like absolutely the most stunning,

beautiful, radiant goddesses. After the experience of it's of

coming home, everyone, we've been lied to about beauty. It's

a pile of bullshit. I got lots of episodes on that, but that

is, that is not true beauty. And that's why your intimacy is way

deeper and way more meaningful into me, you see, that's what

intimacy is. It's not about the lies we've been fed through

pornography, and like all that. I mean, all the disassociation

that comes from how we've been taught sexuality. Like, when

you're home in your heart and your soul, that's what

everyone's hearts and souls are longing for. But if nobody's

home, nobody's experiencing that.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, it's true, yeah, like we, I feel on a

level with, like, intimately with him, that I didn't, and I,

that I didn't think was possible, to be honest, and I

imagine that will just continue to deepen, and it will just be,

it'll just continue to get better, because every year I can

look back and go, oh, wow, like it's so different now than it

was even last year. You know,

it's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: yeah, I was just thinking, like, I get

butterflies again with him, you know, that they're so long, I

did not get just numb, just numb, just nothing.

And how many years ago

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: this year? I believe we're 21 years

together,

and you have butterflies now. Oh my god, this

seems to be a book for sure.

Yeah, yeah,

isn't that how many people don't believe that's

possible?

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yes, yeah, I was one for sure. Yeah, I was

one. That is absolutely incredible. And you

were numb. And how many women are relating to that? No, yeah,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: because, yeah,

I lived, I lived in my head,

yeah,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: not in my body, and like, when we were

working together, like, how does that feel? And I'm like, well, I

think blah blah blah, and you're like, no, how does it feel? I'm

like, what does that mean? I don't know what that means, how

to answer that. Yeah, yes, yeah, and I only know how I think I

should feel, and I remember David, like, one one thing that

he said to me in an argument before we, it was actually

before we separated, he was like, 'Sound like a sitcom, and

I was like, 'What? He's like, 'You sound like this, you know,

like you sound like a TV sitcom, and I was like, 'Oh, and I

realized, yeah, probably, because that's that was a big

part of my life was just binging, you know, reruns and

being programmed, you know, being programmed by television,

and then I would just regurgitate lines from shows

that sounded good, yeah,

that feels so heartbreaking, because in that

moment, as you said that, I just was like, how many people's

lives right now, because they're not home, because they're

disconnected, because they don't know how to plug in and feel all

the magnitude of what is inside, and how to meet themselves, and

are just spending every day going. To a job they don't like

in a relationship they feel numb from, and then watching shows

and being programmed for there, and that's like most lives right

now, and on antidepressants, and on I say that with love, I mean

we do it's survival right until you have the tools and the

awareness and the guidance and the container and the support,

we don't know what we don't know. You didn't know what you

didn't know, but you were fucking devoted and fierce, and,

and committed to finding a way. And also, life was leading you,

because how divine that you found Katherine and I on a pod.

Were you even listening to Amy's podcast? Are you just.. so it

was Amy's podcast, I imagine, feminine frequency. It was

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Amy. It was Amy's podcast, and I wasn't

like actively listening to it, but I would listen to it every

once in a while if there was like a title that kind of caught

my eye.

Yeah, and

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: I don't even remember how I found Amy's

podcast,

yeah,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: which is interesting.

Yeah, amazing. So I think

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: I was attracted to her title, the

title of her podcast, because I felt so disembodied, and I

didn't feel feminine, I didn't know, even know what feminine

looked like, felt like, and I desired to feel feminine, and to

feel soft, and I, so I think I was attracted to her title,

yeah, yeah, and then you came on the journey to

that's it, it led to here to coming home, so take us to the

rest of your life, and I mean, you guys, even coming to Kenya,

I feel like was such a beautiful, and all of that time,

like all of the orchestrations that have happened in the last

year, in the last six months, of like what has changed in your

external world now that you've deepened so much and healed so

much internally. Tell us, take us there, and with the boys, and

anything else you want to share. Friendships, hmm.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: I guess, like, in looking back, I

realized how supportive, like, my family really was, and

because I couldn't receive it, I couldn't even see it, but yeah,

coming to Kenya was so full circle, because when I was in,

when I was at the immersion, we were fully separated, and it was

there, was maybe, and I, I remember going to the immersion,

and I was like, I wonder if I'll even miss him, and I was

surprised that I did, I actually really missed him, and I was

like, wow, did not expect, expect that, and it was months

after the immersion. I don't even remember. No, it wasn't.

Yeah, it was actually May. Yeah, that may

3.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, it was. Was it that May? Maybe it

was that he asked to move, move back in, and I was like, 'ooh,

give me a second. I was like, 'Let me, let me really feel into

this, because I was like, 'I cannot go through what I went

through again. I just do not want to go through another

separation. I just, I was like, I just can't do it. It was so

incredibly painful. So we took some time talking about, you

know, actually moving back in, and you and I had a conversation

about it, and that's when you learned what his name was, and

having him, like him and the boys, actually come to Kenya,

and have such a beautiful trip together. It just, yeah, it was

full circle for me, for really.

And what did you do right before you came to Kenya?

And then what happened right after? There was a big, like,

your whole world, too. Yeah.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: So, again, like, with my, with my birthday,

I do a celebration every year with my birthday for myself, I

choose something. In the last two years prior, I had gone to a

really nice hotel and spoiled myself, and I was like, you

know, I don't want to go away this year, I want to experience

something, I want to have an actual experience. And, but I

couldn't come up with anything, and so I just, the universe kept

showing me horses and horses and horses, I'm like, horses, what

the hell? I don't know anything about horses. I've never been on

a horse, I don't know anything about them. And a guy that

trains with my son in jiu jitsu, his girlfriend, you know, she

has, she offers horse lessons. So I started working with her

and fell in love, because love is love, right? Fell in love

with a horse, and

yeah, ended up right. You're so cute,

you're telling this story like as if you're like a

six year old talking about your 12 year old talking about your

crash. Like, oh, I don't even know what to say. I

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: know that is kind of how I.. it's a

bizarre feeling. That is how I feel when I see him. I'm like,

oh, there he

is.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: And so, right before I left for Kenya, I

actually left my job. I was like, this just does not feel

aligned anymore. I cannot do this anymore, and so I left, not

knowing what I was going to do next, and then I got invited to

interview for another amazing, amazing company, and I was like,

yes, I went through the process, and every step of the way I was

like, How does this feel? How does this feel, and every step

was like, yes, yes, yes, and so right before I left for Kenya, I

accepted the job and had my experience in Kenya, and then

came back and almost immediately turned the job down, and was

like, I just, it doesn't feel aligned anymore, so much had

changed in me in Kenya, and after we got back from Kenya, we

moved. We moved into our dream home. It's a beautiful, you

know, 10 acre farm. I have chickens. I finally have my

chickens. I've wanted chickens forever, and I do have them, and

I have 24 now.

Wait, she actually start with, we started the

podcast, and the chickens were, she was outside, and the

chickens were so loud, we had to stop and start over again. They

wanted to be on the podcast,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: so yeah, I actually, the day that I was

supposed to start that new job was the day I got my chickens.

We thought we started with 10, but you know, chicken math, 10

turned into 24

because they had sex that fast.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: No. Oh, they're just addicting, they're

so addicting, those little tiny little chicks. Yeah, so we have

24 now, but right before I was supposed to start that job,

David and I had a just a heart to heart conversation, and he

was like, "Is this really what you want to do? And deep down I

was like, "No, it's not. But then, what, what, what do I do?

And I said, "Well, we'll see. And so I was like, and I'm

still, we'll see, yeah,

we'll see, and now we'll see, you have this

extraordinary expansive place, you went from a house in a

neighborhood with a bunch of other houses in a suburbia, I

mean, I've never been there, but that's what I imagine, yes,

yeah, and now you live on 10 acres with chickens, and you're

a beekeeper, and a donkey breeder, baby, and a horse

whisperer, and you know, like your, your magical animal

kingdom, I'm sure, will will keep growing and evolving, and

you're in this beautiful place where you're exploring your

soul, and you know, the equine therapy, and the things that are

like sparking you so deep, and this. If you go back and listen

to the episode I did at the beginning of the year on

purpose, and we're in our Ojai event, we're going to be

focusing on purpose as well. It's like purpose is unfolding,

and you're in it, right? The mind is like, I haven't figured

out what's next. You're in it, you're following what lights up

your soul and sparks your soul, and there's no accidents. Not

everyone falls in love with a horse and blushes and can't even

talk, like you barely even spoke. Like, I've never seen

this woman. I mean, oh my god, as soon.. and this is like

months of our last coaching container, you were sending me

Voxers, and you were, you're, you were turned on, not in a

creepy way, but like your voice and your body and your being and

your everything. I could feel it. It felt like you just

finished the immersion. You were just like heart was oozing, and

you were like Kate, this horse named Arrow, and this like..

and.. and I.. and the way that it's getting to mirror like my

work with you, and when I'm in my saboteur, and when I'm in my

heroine, and when I'm rooted, and he responds to me, and we

have this special beautiful bond, and it's like the reminder

that we've been fed this bullshit story that all of our

love is gonna come from one person. How limiting and how

horrible on that person? Like, what fucking pressure is that on

that person, and how your love for arrow, and your love for

horses, and your love for transformation, your love for

healing, your love for growth, and your love for connection,

now, and your love for all that networking, going to networking

events, like all of the things that you've opened up to, and

how that feeds your family, it feeds your relationship, it

feeds your intimacy, it feeds your boys, it feeds everyone,

because Mama's soul is satiating, and simultaneously

your purpose is unfolding. How do you know you're on your

soul's path? Well,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: you don't see it.

The path disappears. The path is one

opportunity you had in a potential. Opportunity show up,

who knows if it'll come to fruition, but doesn't matter.

The city with horses, like life, is going to bring you the

opportunities, the teachers, the people, the places, the soul

sisters, the love, that the the experiences, the travel, that

life will bring it to you, and your only job, like your story,

is the perfect example of how much your whole family has

healed and transformed because you've learned to listen to your

body and your heart and your soul's resonance and discord,

when it's a no like that job. I remember talking to you that

day, and you were just like, I just can't. It felt like trying

to move through mud, like trying to go to this thing, like you

couldn't. Or even though on paper that job was perfect, it

was the perfect transition. It was way better than your other

job, same industry, but like the dream version of that job, and

you couldn't force yourself into the perfect on paper job,

because your inner compass is so loud now, and it is is is in

charge of your life, and that's why you sit in this magical 10

acre property with your beautiful family, you have these

wild beautiful adventures, everyone's doing what they love.

Everyone's so much more open, like all this comes because you

have been following your own compass, and we've been told a

lie that, like, when we follow our own desires, our own truth,

that it's like hurts other people, especially as women.

Like, don't do the thing you want, that's selfish, you're

gonna hurt someone, you're gonna take something away from

someone. It's quite the opposite, isn't

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: it? And I remember telling you, like, I

hate where I live, like I just hate, like, if I looked out the

window, there was a house, a house, a house. I mean, I was

surrounded by houses. The house that we were in was so dark,

because all the houses were around it, couldn't let any

natural light in, and you were like, wherever you are, there

you are. Just sit in the feeling, feel what you want to

feel like in your new space, feel the expansion, just be in

the feeling of it. And I was like, oh, I was like, okay, and

I practiced that, and practiced it, and practice it, and I just

felt into the feeling, and I had one vision feeling, kind of,

that came up so, so often when I was in that space, that I was

sitting on the deck on a yoga mat with coffee, it was in the

morning, and I was just stretching, and then my youngest

son, Blake, comes running by me, I'm like, "What are you doing?

and he's like, "I'm gonna feed the chickens, and I'm like, wow,

like it's so crazy. I sit on my deck every morning with my

coffee. Blake has yet come to run out and say, I'm gonna feed

the chickens, but one day, one day that'll happen. But I,

wherever you are, right there you are, and so wherever you go,

there you are, and so I just stayed in the feeling, and like

that was another thing, another seed that was planted in Greece

was I looked, I was on the property and looked out onto the

land and the space, and I was like, I want this, I want space,

I just want space, and so I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna feel

into it. So I spent a lot of time in that, in that space, on

that mat, which I still have that mat.

And do you, and do you have coffee outside every

day on that mat now, here at your new place?

So you're now not on it, built it, but now you're living it.

Wow, yeah. And that's it. Like, manifestation is like, because

the only reason we're manifesting anything. I said

this in the last episode, actually, with we just did an

episode about manifestation with Farhad, and, and I said, you

know, the only reason we're wanting anything is because of

how we think we're gonna feel, but then if we're only doing it

from our minds, trying to get the thing, but we're not home,

like that's what's different. It's like you spent all the

time, like cultivating and deepening your relationship to

your feelings and these parts of yourself, and connecting and

plugging in and learning how to be with yourself, and to be in

those feelings of desire, and to be in those feelings of

discomfort, and to be with all of it, and how you sit here, and

your life is what you felt into and desired, and you didn't have

to do anything, like even how your magical house came was so

divinely guided.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, and it was the only house we looked

at. Well, that's not true. We did look in another house that

was a no before I even went there, but this house, and it

was interesting, because when I walked into the house, it didn't

feel like excitement and butterflies, and just it didn't

feel like that, it just felt resident, it felt home, it felt

peaceful. Yeah, it just felt calm, and I was like,

yeah,

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: this is it. Yeah, this is it. And that's

it. And it's interesting that you said, like, you don't have

to do anything. So the other day, when I was with Arrow, so I

was with him just this last week, and the lady that I'm

doing, that I'm riding horses with, her name's Alex. She's

amazing, amazing, she. She randomly, someone randomly

reaches out to her and said, "We have an equine therapy program

in Arizona that's very successful, and we'd like to

start it in Georgetown, which is where I live. And she is, she

has to have a horse handler, so she has to have two people, and

she's like, "You're the first person I thought of, and I was

like, what, like, what just happened? It's so, yeah, it's,

yeah, and it's like

Chania.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Oh, yes, that's right. I did it. I had a

energy healing session with this beautiful woman, Chania, and she

said something. She was like, "Do you work with horses? I was

like, "Wait, what? She goes, "Yeah, do you work with horses?

And I was like, "No. And she's like, "A horse is your spirit

animal for sure. And she's like, "I see a brown horse in your

future, and it, you're meant to work with horses, and they're

going to bring you freedom, that's all she said. And I was

like, have you talked to Kate? Like, do you talk to Kate? Like,

do you do you have, like, do you have debrief sessions? And she

goes, no. And I went back, I went back, and I went straight

to you, and I said, What did you tell Shania? What, because I

just could not believe it. I was like, of all the animals in the

world, of all the animals in the world, a horse, seriously, and a

brown horse, and he's so arrow is brown, he's a dark brown, but

he is, he, yeah, he's a brown horse, he's stunning. Oh my

gosh, my eyes, I'm feeling it so deeply. It's like,

oh, your life is so mad. Everyone's life is so magical

when we let life lead, and life has so much. I just think of,

like, and you're only at the beginning, three years in, and I

just think of, like, all the beauty, and all the depth, and

all the intimacy, and all the the love and all the joy and all

the the expansiveness that you get to feel in your life and

that you've cultivated and that you've now created and now it's

externally going to networking events and promoting the

unscripted world. I know, I mean, like the most doing all

these expanded things and like, growing in all these amazing

ways. I remember when you were doing roofing, and you were

going to a networking event, and you're like, "Yeah, I'm not

really into networking, I don't really want to be around people,

whatever. You were like, "Totally resisted. And then you

went, and you were like, "Oh my god, I brought my heroin, and it

was so fun. I loved it.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, absolutely loved it. And I.. I..

this group, it's a female, it's a female-only group, and I, she

invited me to stay, and I said, "Well, I'm not, you know, I'm

not in roofing. She goes, "Well, what are you doing? Don't know,

I don't know yet. She's like, "Well, and you and I had talked

about me kind of reaching out to other podcasters and kind of

promoting your work, and I said, "Well, I'm kind of trying that

on at the moment. She goes, talk about that. Okay, so actually,

what was it a week ago? I gave a 10 minute presentation on the

unscripted woman,

which is you. It

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: was so funny. She

is, you never talk about yourself, you unscripted.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, yeah. And she was like, "Oh, are

you going to do a PowerPoint presentation? I said, no, I'm

not planning on doing a PowerPoint. She goes, I highly

encourage you to make a PowerPoint presentation, and I

thought, I yeah, thank you, but no, yeah, I was like, thank you,

but no, that doesn't feel good to me, and so I didn't, and I

was like, nope, I'm just going to talk about my experience and

my journey, and what this work means to me, and how much I

believe in it, and I so desperately want you to leverage

your work and get it out to as many women as possible, because

it does work if you trust and just fully surrender, it does

work,

and it does take it's not like it works, I think

that's part of the flaw with people sign up for things and

like it didn't work and they blame the thing rather than oh

how did I show up inside of this thing, it's like a combination

like I show up and I give you the container and I give you the

structures, and this is a system that helps. It's accessible,

right? It helps. Amrit Sandhu said in my reading, it's because

I have so much earth in my chart. I have triple Taurus, and

so he said, 'You're.. he has the same. He said, 'We make great

spiritual teachers for the masses, because what we teach,

we can make something that's unaccessible to people,

digestible, because we have so much earth, because most

spiritual teachers are very airy, so it's like, it's like,

oh, that sounds amazing and inspiring, but like, I can't

actually, like, do what do I do with it, and this system, the

expanded love method, is a system to actually understand

yourself in such a deep way, and it's a conch. Way to transform

and heal your relationship with yourself, which then changes

your life.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yes, that's so true. Because I had,

and you know, David would say all the time, like, you just

don't apply it, you have all this information, but you don't

apply it. I'm like, I don't know how, like I really want to, but

I don't know how, and the way you, the way you described it,

it's like I could sink my teeth into something that I'm like,

okay, I can do that, let me try this on, and yeah,

amazing. Oh, my love, I'm.. it's true, you have

to inspire it by

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: you, yeah, yeah. Thank you, thank you so

much, Kate.

I love you.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: I love you. So grateful, I'm so

grateful I found you, and I think of, like, the number of

women that you worked with, which is a good number of women

now, but in the whole scheme of things, right, it's really not.

And I'm like, wow, like, I feel so lucky, you know, that I found

you, and I learned I yeah, and that you gave me, like, you held

at the mirror and showed me, like, who I really was in such a

loving way that it gave me the courage to do it, to actually

try and have be in surrender to the process.

When the student is ready, the teacher appears.

Yeah, and you did it. And so then, having said all that,

thank you for those beautiful words. And, like, God, such a

joy being on this journey with you. I fucking love you so much.

And I was saying the other day, it's like, so fun to work with a

woman a second time, because then she's already like, I mean,

one of my gifts is awakening women. I have a lot of women

that I work with who just haven't really gone deep, and

it's their like real awakening. But the second round is so fun,

because it's like you get it, and we can go faster and deeper,

and it's, it's, it's, I mean, they're both magical in

different ways, but it's just such a joy to work with you and

support you, and to be with your family, and just like, I feel

like I never, like, I, whenever I say the word client, it feels

like so wrong, I'm like, ew, it feels so clinical and not true.

It just feels like we're like soul family, and I'm just like,

I see your souls, like whatever women are called to go on this

journey, and and awaken their souls. It's like we're soul

family, just like guiding each other back home. And then I get

to be inspired by you, living in your soul, and you teach me

things for me, witnessing you living your life in alignment,

and your life that's different from my life. So, I'm deeply

grateful, and I absolutely love you so much. And, and, so I

imagine you, and this, I think this is a great time to talk

about the Expanded Love Masterclass, because that's

coming up soon. And, and June 19, the 20-first is the date,

it's $22 We'll link it below this episode. It'll also be on

my website, The Unscripted Woman, and it's on Instagram,

Kate Harlow, The Unscripted Woman. june 19 to 21st expanded

love masterclass, where I teach the five saboteur archetypes.

Give me three days this time, two hours each morning, so

Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Apparently, it's actually june

19, so it's a holiday on Friday, so if you have a job, you can.

Most people have a holiday, and it's Father's Day weekend, so

this could be a gift to your husband or your father, or

whoever. But do you recommend the Expanded Love Masterclass?

What do you.. what do you feel? Oh, my gosh, yes, 100% That's

what opened my eyes, yeah, yeah, because then you can understand

yourself in such a con your patterns in such a concrete way,

but also the gift of like, not, it's no longer about you, it's

like this is who you learn to be, your saboteurs, who you

learn to be in your survival mode as a child that you're

still living from, so that's what the Expanded Love

Masterclass is like deeply, deeply understanding your

saboteur patterns, and how to start to untether from that part

leading. So, I highly encourage you all to join, spread this

message in this episode to every woman you know. And I want, I

would love to just say any final words, like what for the woman

who's in so much pain. I mean, you were so vulnerable at the

beginning of this episode, and shared that dark, dark place

that you were in before you started this journey, and to all

the women who are stuck in this, should I stare, should I go?

Like, I want to be clear, am I in the right relationship? Will

I ever be happy? Will I ever feel pleasure again? What do you

have to say to them? What's your final, final words, I

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Ask the hard questions, be brave, ask

the hard questions, because to be honest, like what I was doing

before was so much harder. Yeah, but for whatever reason, it felt

easier in the moment. But be brave and be honest with

yourself. Just be brutally honest with yourself, and

continue to listen to the new truth. And definitely go to the

Expanded Love Masterclass for $22 It's such a small investment

to learn, truly learn, and I was so surprised, like, you know,

the five archetypes you can make assumptions about them, but

actually it's so much more than that. It really is so much more,

and it allowed me to open my eyes in a way that I hadn't had

my eyes open before, I couldn't, I had so many blind spots, you

know, I just couldn't see myself clearly, and it's like, if you

can't see yourself clearly, then what do you do? And so I guess

that's my final, my final advice.

I love it, it's so true, and and it's like, if

you're in the dilemma, should I stare, should I go look in the

mirror and go in and figure out your part, because wherever you

go, there you are to jump from this marriage to your next

relationship, and you're going to experience the same thing,

because you're bumping up against your own lack of ability

to receive love, because you're in your patterns.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, it's, you know, before we

started recording, we were talking about, you know, back

then, three years, four years ago, and it's just hard to even

believe so different, you know, everything is so different now

on the outside, yes, but on the inside, that's where the real

change has occurred, and it is possible. I really did not think

it was possible. I really thought I was so far gone, so

far gone that actually Catherine turned me down. Catherine was

like, she was like, I remember her being like, what the f like,

you are not ready, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, and she's

like, "You need, you need more time, you need more. I forget

what she said, but she's like, "You need like three months,

three more months of therapy, because I told her I was like,

"I am in therapy, and she's like, "You need a little bit

more time in therapy. And then you reached out to me, so I

really felt like this is it, like I'm too far gone, I'm not

fixable,

and that's not true. Yeah, it's like her soul

redirected you, because, well, I mean, she was gonna end her

business, but she didn't know at the time, but her soul

redirected you because you were meant to. And then we got on a

call, I saw you, and I think I had seen a post of yours in the

new Truth Group, and I reached out and was like, "Hey, we

should talk, like I can help you, and I just saw you so

clearly, because that's my gift as a projector, I see people's

souls, and I saw you on the first call, and I knew that we

were meant to go on this journey together, I had no doubt the

first time we talked, so isn't that interesting that Catherine

and I had totally different experiences, because you were

meant to come on this journey, and that's life redirecting us.

We take it as reject. This small self takes everything as

rejection. Oh, the guy said no to me, he's rejecting me. No,

it's because that's not meant for you, otherwise he wouldn't

have said no. It was not meant for you.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, and I remember telling you, it was

like full disclosure, like Catherine said I'm not, I'm not

a candidate.

I think your saboteur was like

Karen was like Catherine said I'm broken and

not fixable or something, like she saboteur like twisted,

twisted what she said. Yeah, yeah, here we are, here we are,

my love. I'm so proud of you, and thank you so much for having

the courage again. Like, here's another area of growth - you've

never done a podcast before, and thank you so much for having the

courage to have this conversation with me. I just, I

just knew in my heart and soul, like, the that that women need

to hear your story, and there's so, there's so many more

nuances, but I think more than anything, it's like living a

life that's deeply in the dark and painful, and so many souls

are, or not souls, but so many, you know, people are stuck in

that place within themselves, and and you represent everything

that's possible, and you're only three years in, we've only just

began,

yeah, it is amazing.

I love you.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Yeah, I love,

as always, share this episode with every woman

you know. I think everyone needs to hear this message, and we

will get it out to a bigger.. I'm gonna have a heroin training

academy soon in Kenya, a retreat center. Okay, I say soon. I'm

just manifesting this right now. It's not really under

construction or anything, but I see this like heroin training

academy, expanded love method training academy, where I'm

training women all over the world from all over the world to

bring this very concrete, very digestible, very apply. Able, I

don't like the word work, so practice to other, so that we

can get it out in big way, because obviously I can't do it

alone, so you're going to be the equine part, yeah. So it's come,

that's coming soon, but but let's at least share this

episode. And thank you so much, I love you deeply. I'm so proud

of you, celebrating you so big, and yeah, we'll see you soon.

Jackie Jade Gilstrap: Thank you.

Bye.