195: Discover Lawyer.com Lead Gen, Legal Directory, Call Center & Conference with CEO Colleen Joyce

So we started lawyer.com with a schloppy directory, right in about 2012 and we learned really quickly that actually this was a business, but like any business, when you're starting, we were doing everything manually, right? I'd have a consumer call in and say, Hey, listen, can you help me find a lawyer in New York City? I need a DUI and I'd say, okay, and I'd go to Google, I'd go to the directory, right? Because this was early on. And then by the time the fourth person called me looking for a DUI attorney in Manhattan, I'd be like, Oh, I know this person, right? And what we learned was, it's very difficult to find a lawyer. It truly is right. You got a cold call lawyers until you can get somebody that's going to take your case answer the phone first, right? So what we thought was, hey, listen, I think we could actually probably be that matching engine in between. Use the directory to help consumers match with lawyers, and it's a free service for consumers, and that's really when we started. I loved it. I loved talking to consumers. I loved helping people on what truly is one of their worst days, right? And they've got the courage to call and ask for help, and it's amazing that we get to be that voice on the other end.

Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of Internet Marketing for Law Firms, podcast featuring the latest strategies and techniques to drive traffic to your website and convert that traffic into clients. Now here's the founder and CEO of 10 golden rules. Jay Berkowitz,

good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever time this podcast finds you, or actually YouTube, we get probably way more views on YouTube. Welcome to the 10 golden rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast. Great guest today. We're going to meet Colleen in 30 seconds and just a quick ad today for the podcast. If you like this content, please like subscribe and also go to YouTube, because, as I mentioned, our YouTube channel, we have over a million views of this podcast and our webinars, and we've got amazing guests like Colleen, and we've got fantastic content on AI and SEO. And we just did a webinar on masterminds, and we did EOS recently. So if you want to learn about traction and the EOS operating system, amazing content at 10 golden rules YouTube channel. And with that, Colleen Joyce is the CEO of lawyer.com and it's an amazing business with three different business parts to it. But first things first, Colleen, welcome to the 10 golden rules podcast.

Hey, Jay, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

So first, you know, I always ask everyone to tell us about their journey, and how did you get from little Colleen to CEO of lawyer dog?

A lot of hard work. That's really usually what happens, right? I started working for a parent company maybe 17 years ago, although I not sure. I'll admit that, and I learned about the domain business, right? There's so much to learn, 2004 2007 right, in that industry. And from there, I was able to organically grow and try different brands. I built out an online entertainment publication called Pop star.com where I would go and interview celebrities and post and write positive news, which is a lot of fun. And what we learned through that venture was it's great, you'll get a lot of viewers, but it's difficult to run a business and generate revenue right when you're just solely relying on clicks. So from there, we started to build lawyer.com and it started just I was in a room answering phone calls, and I kind of learned my way through to where I am right now. So, yeah,

you explained it to me. There's a parent company that owns some really great domains,

yes,

and domain is a term for a website for people who don't know, I'm sure they do. So lawyer.com is a domain. What are some of the other domain names, or website names that the parent has?

Yeah, so the parent company is world.com and they actually started a company called mail.com back in the late 90s. And during that time, they acquired domains such as teacher.com london.com, Paris. Rome, London, Madrid. Accountant, I could go on for a long time, right? The goal was at that point to give people vanity email addresses. And the company ended up taking the domains and then saying, Great, we have these household names. How do we make businesses out of them? And that's really what we sat down with lawyer. It was like, okay, lawyer.com Great. What does that look like? We threw up a directory, thinking that the internet truly wanted to be free at that time, right? 2012 the internet was a very different beast than it is now. And organically, people started to call lawyer. Lawyers and consumers. And from there, we thought, okay, we've got a business here. Let's grow a business and see what we can do. And you know, here we are all these years later,

we didn't talk about this, but I actually started this business 10 golden rules in a domain registrar.

Interesting.

I'm sure you'll know the guys when I tell the story. So very quickly, I was at E diets.com I was running the marketing department. We were spending $40 million in advertising. We were one of the five largest advertisers on the internet. And then I wrote this presentation and my book 10 golden rules of internet marketing, and all these people at the presentation asked me if I did consulting and I started a consulting business. Well, one of the people I was immediately referred to was a domain registrar called moniker.com,

yep,

and I'm sure you know Monty and the guys at moniker

very well, yeah, you're

part of that domain back in oh four to seven. So Monty made a proposal to me, said, I want you to become our marketing agency and also our acting CMO, chief marketing officer. And we've got a t1 line, which at that time was like the fastest internet anywhere. And I so literally, 10 golden rules started in a they had one big office in the corner that was available. And we started in that office, and I hired a copywriter who had done some SEO copywriting, and then we started learning pay per click. And this is back in 2003 Google ads were still in beta. So yeah, I started in the domain business, and we would go to all the conferences, and they didn't like to speak on stage, so I would speak on stage on behalf of 10 golden rules and moniker com. And then Monty got a lot more comfortable in front of the stage in the camera, and we started a podcast for him. And anyways,

that's so great, but it gives you that foundation that not many people have right in this industry, which is so amazing.

Yeah, and we did a lot of work, it sounds like what you were doing and trying to figure out how to put a business around domains, because they also had a huge domain portfolio. And all of our clients had a huge domain portfolio. And one of the things we identified was great clients for moniker had multiple domains because they had the ability, like, if you wanted to change your security on all your sites, you could do it in one click of a button. If you wanted to change your DNS, your hosting, you could do it through moniker, and you could manage like, 200 domains at once. So that came our business model target, folks like yourself. So you were in the domain business, and then you built out lawyer.com

Yeah.

What years with this? How long have you been building it?

So we started lawyer.com with a schloppy directory, right? And about 2012 and we learned really quickly that actually this was a business, but like any business, when you're starting, we were doing everything manually, right? I'd have a consumer call in and say, Hey, listen, can you help me find a lawyer in New York City? I need a DUI. And I'd say, okay, and I'd go to Google, I'd go to the directory, right? Because this was early on, and then by the time the fourth person called me looking for a DUI attorney in Manhattan, I'd be like, Oh, I know this person, right? And what we learned was, it's very difficult to find a lawyer. It truly is right. You got a cold call lawyers until you can get somebody that's going to take your case answer the phone first, right? So what we thought was, hey, listen, I think we could actually probably be that matching engine in between. Use the directory to help consumers match with lawyers, and it's a free service for consumers. And that's really when we started. I loved it. I loved talking to consumers. I loved helping people on what truly is one of their worst days, right? And they've got the courage to call and ask for help, and it's amazing that we get to be that voice on the other end.

So at some point, the directory evolved into a paid opportunity, and so you started selling sponsorships or placements. How do you get listed on lawyer.com

Yeah, absolutely. So we try to list everybody, right? If you need a lawyer, where do you go lawyer.com so we try to have every listing in that age. We took the Yellow Page model right at that point I was computing with the yellow pages, I'd call and I'd say, hey, Attorney Smith, you want to sign up for lawyer.com he's like, No, I'm buying a half page ad in the Yellow Page. And I'm like, Okay, well, no one cares about that, but Okay, right? So that was kind of my competition at that time, so I took that same sales pitch, right? If you want to be found on the internet, you really should be listed everywhere, and everyone wants to put you in a corner. Well, why should I be listed with you and not these other directories? And my answer was always simple, and it still is, you shouldn't. You shouldn't be listed everywhere, because you never know how a consumer is going to find you. So don't just pick me, pick me and the four other directories, because that's what you need. And I'm sure you see that as well.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's a blend of both, right? You have to build your own brand, and you'd have to. To pick and choose, and what we recommend to our clients is put tracking in place. So put a UTM code or tracking links you know how much traffic you get in order.com and the other directories, and put a unique phone number so you don't know how many calls you get. And really do a cost benefit analysis on how much it costs to be listed and which ones are actually driving calls and signed clients, not just hey, it's nice to be there.

Absolutely, when we first started, it was a nice to be there kind of thing. And I think that in the time, lawyers have really evolved, and it's thanks to businesses like yours, where you're teaching lawyers how to run a business instead of a law firm, right? They wouldn't know what a tracking number was or what to do with it. But yeah, you need a tracking number if you're going to spend money. What's your ROI? And I think that that's been a huge shift in the industry in the last 10 years or so.

Yeah, and a tracking number is, there's companies like call rail,

yep,

kind of the biggest in the business. What they do is they give you a pool of numbers. Actually, I was working on my pool of numbers just earlier today with my marketing group, because we're tracking some stuff for 10 golden rules. And one of the numbers is going to come from advertising. It's going to going to call directly to our switchboard and then let them know this is an ad that this person, you don't have to bet this person. They go directly to our sales group. The tracking numbers allow you to identify where the calls are coming from and which ones come came from your website, from your SEO, from your Google business profile, your Google Maps and directories like lawyer.com so that's great. You started with the directory. You started getting consumers and lawyers together, and then you developed a business model where the lawyers can pay for those listings,

yep. And

now it's evolved to an actual proactive lead gen, and that's where we first met. One of my friends is like, Oh, you kind of see this great site, lawyer.com I'm getting these great cases, and he's recently gotten two or three, seven figure and above cases. So talk about the lead gen and how that works, and how folks opt into that.

Yeah. So again, as a directory member, if As a premium member, you're going to get access to cases that are specific to your location and area, right? And it's more opportunities, right? Just because people are coming to us saying, hey, I need a lawyer. Hey, I think I need a lawyer. And we're saying, Great, here are some local lawyers in your area who could help you. Give them a call, right? So we view them more as opportunities. We send them to everybody in the directory As a premium member. You get a more tailored geographic location, so that helps really narrow down what it is that you're looking for.

And should give us shout out to Scott Richardson at free Injury Legal advice.com in Phoenix, because Scott's The one who introduced us. I know he loves this podcast. So if you're looking for personal injury in the state of Arizona, Scott's your guy, pre injury legal advice. So you mentioned earlier the DUI you mentioned earlier, and I mentioned Scott. So you're looking for a DUI lawyer in the state of New York. You're looking for a personal injury attorney in the state of Arizona. So Scott's going to get a heads up, if it's a PI case in Arizona. And how many three or four guys are going to get a heads up in New York?

Yep.

And then everybody can reach out, or is it first come first serve?

We try to limit it, because you don't want too many people. We try to stop the shop, right? And that's kind of a phrase we use very often around here. And everybody in this business wants exclusive leads, and they talk about it. But the problem with exclusive leads, and again, we don't we're in the opportunity game. We're not in the lead game. My issue with exclusive is you never know you need to have that chemistry with a client, right? There's so many factors that go into it, and they have to agree to work with you as much as you have to agree to work with them, right? So I think that's a bit of a miss that we have in the industry is that people just want, they want to buy all the exclusive leads, but it may not be the best fit for either of the candidates. I

have a lot of great questions that I don't have answers for. There's always one or two ruminating in the back of my head, and this is one of them. And do you have a theory, or do you have any quantitative data on like, if there's 10 car accidents every day, what percentage of them shop for lawyers? What percentage of them take the first lawyer they see on an LSA that they click and call at the top of the page? Do you know? Could you break that down? Like, how many people just take the first lawyer they see? How many people talk to two or three? And how many people, like, actually go out and do a bunch of research and talk to eight or 10 and set up meetings? And

yeah, no, absolutely. So it's interesting, because I'm a consumer myself, so I can answer this kind of how I see, and again, the consumers that we speak to, and I think it, it really lies with the law firms, because. Is people will continue to call lawyers until they find out what it is they want. So they're going to get that. Maybe they'll start with Google, right? I think we're still with the major population. We're still going to Google, and they're going to just call. Did they answer the phone? Well, we know when we Secret Shop law firms, the average score they get is 32% because half of them don't answer the phone, right? Because,

sadly,

it's true, right? So I think that the way that you stop the shop is that you have somebody who is informative about your firm and is truly selling your firm. So it's difficult to answer that question, because it depends on the location, and it depends, really, on the practice area. When we talk pi, you know, these are very, very sophisticated businesses that are spending big money to be on page one, to be on LSAs, so they're probably stopping that shop really quickly, right? If you've ever called Morgan and Morgan, well, they've got a very impressive infrastructure, and if you don't call them back or book an appointment, they're going to call you and text you and call you and text you and call you and text you, right? They know how to get that business, so I think it's really dependent on your practice area. But the PI guys, they it's impressive what they've done, even in the last five years, right? When we spoke the other day, you were explaining that you also started a call center. So how did that come up? I think it was need based, right? It was, it was, I got sick and tired of people being like, I'm canceling. Right? We take churn very serious. We run an MMR business, right? That is the most important thing to us is keeping our clients happy. So we don't have contracts for that reason, right? Because I want to know right away if you're not happy, I don't want to wait a year. And what the theme was was, oh, the person didn't answer the phone when I called them. Okay, well, when did you try to call them? Well, like three days after, because I was free then, and I'm like, There's a giant opportunity here. And we had the core knowledge, we're talking to 1000s of consumers on the phone all day, right? We had the infrastructure. We had the team in place. So I went to an attorney in New Jersey, and I said, Hey, listen, will you trust me enough to forward all of your calls to my cell phone, 24/7, and what I learned was I didn't know anything

about running a call center, so I probably needed to hire somebody, but I learned that this was a need in the industry. So again, very organically, we stepped into running a call center, and we do call intake for 800 law firms nationwide now,

wow, that's awesome

from a cell phone. That's how it started. We're very grassroots here.

So is this the right order? First the directory, then the lead gen, then the call center, and now the conference, and

yep, I

guess the fourth tentacle is you now have an annual conference. I have it on my my calendar. I'm hoping to join you in July in Vegas, and it's called the lawyer.com Summit, or

the lawyer growth Summit.

Lawyer growth Summit, great.

We're very excited. We started right after covid, doing live events, and we had many iterations until we came up with the lawyer growth Summit. It's a little different, because we take more of the thought leadership role. Our goal is to find what's going on in the industry. Who is the best, who has the best knowledge in their lane. Let's put them on stage. How can we use that knowledge to help us grow law firms? And I talk about it. I'm sitting there taking notes. I'm not a lawyer. I don't run a law firm, but I have the same problems lawyers have with their law firms, right? So growth is growth, and we're in that room to talk about, how are we going to grow?

It sounds like we take a very similar approach. And so anybody who's been to tgr live growth strategies for law firms, ironically, similar theme, the growth theme, you probably would enjoy lawyer.com and I hope to see in Vegas summer, because we do the same thing. As a matter of fact, I have a secret. I haven't told anybody this, but the folks that I interview on the podcast and the people who are on our webinar who really make a mark on me, and the ones that I'm taking notes are generally the ones who are on our stage. And so I'm looking for the same thing. People have new and valuable teaching and training that we haven't heard 50 times before.

Well, that's it. There's a lot of me toos, and that's fine, right? But what is cutting edge right now? And it's funny, because we are, you know, abs done. We've talked about it enough. We know it's there. I can't bring it on stage again. Now, everyone wants to talk about MSOs as the anti answer to abs, right? So,

by the way, go ahead and explain the acronym. So,

yes, so ABS is an alternative business structure so very important in Arizona. I don't know. I'm sure your listeners are very familiar with it. It allows non lawyers to run law firms, and in the MSO model. Well, it allows you to restructure your business. And I know a lot of law firms that are doing this, probably same as you know as well, where you are restructuring, how your organizational structure and even your pay structure is outside of the law firm. And that's you know,

abs allows non lawyers to own a law firm and operate a law firm, but you still need lawyers to go to court,

right?

But so now business, money, funds and VCs are getting involved knowing law firm and the MSO or the managed service organization is the acronym, basically means that a business has been set up to run the law firm for you. There's like intake call center, business operations, finance, lawyer, case management and litigation and everything. So you can basically own a law firm, outsource running the law firm with MSOs, and that's the evolution you're talking about. And you, I guess you'll be talking about MSOs.

We'll talk about MSOs. I don't know which is better, right? It's going to be a race, but MSOs have been around forever, so this isn't anything new. It's just, you know, maybe newer to the legal industry, and you see more, more law firms kind of taking this approach than they have in the past.

Yeah, I think the legal industry was very traditional for a long time, and also seemed to fight off innovation, like even the early advertisers among law firms, the lawyers fought like crazy because it was, it was considered disrespectful. Like, yeah, you didn't advertise for lawyer services. You know, it was very white shoe and very traditional, and so the lawyers have been slow to adapt to these things, but the industry is moving quickly.

Yes, no, and it's great to see that, because it helps the consumer at the end of the day, and pretty sure that's why we're all here. So

tell us a little bit more about the conference. Where is it? How many days some of the speakers you've booked so far?

Yeah, so it's in Las Vegas at the Fontainebleau July 15. It's going to be a little warm, but that's okay, and I'm really excited about some of the speakers. I actually have a call this afternoon with one of our keynotes, Tim Stanley. Tim actually is the CEO right now of Justia, but he had originally founded fine law and sold it to Thompson Reuters, and I've always admired and followed Tim's career. He is an amazing SEO genius, and very excited to see what does he have to bring to the stage, right? What does he thinks happening right now with search, with SEO, with AI, right? People want to say SEO is dead, but is it? I'd love to hear from Tim, who has killer domain authority. What's his take on that? Right? So we're excited about that. We've got some great attorney speakers. Mike Morris, who's always been so kind to us. He runs a monster law firm, but he also helps lawyers grow their business with his own masterminds. So it's going to be a really interesting crowd. Love Mike is great

Facebook at our conference last year, and his mastermind fireproof, and his book fireproof, he's a real big EOS guys. Matter of fact,

yep,

I'm just reading this book, rereading this book. We run the EOS operating system,

and

if you're on the audio, I'm holding up a book called rocket fuel. And I literally just on the weekend, read the chapter where they referred to Mike, because this is a book about your visionary integrator duos, the VI duo and John knock Hazel and Mike are one of the famous vi duos because Gino Wickman, who wrote the book, started coaching them 20 years ago, and he hired John knock Hazel in the two of them have built this amazing firm.

It's amazing every time. And I've heard Mike speak many times, I still leave with chills every time. This is why he was where he is, where he's at, right? Because he is phenomenal on stage. He can deliver like no other. And I leave just ready to cook. I'm like, All right, let's go. I can do this. I got 10 pages of notes where we're going, who we doing, kind of thing,

yeah. And by the way, I wanted to say, I do the same thing. I literally, like, this is actually my notebook. And now I'm holding up another prop. I literally take notes. This was my notebook I started at teacher a lot. I literally take notes. And one of the things I tell people that started the conferences, I want you to leave like four blank pages at the front of your notebook, and on like the third page I want you to put to do. Okay? Now I want you to go four pages further, and I want you to put notes, and I want you to take detailed notes. Then at the first break, I say, okay, everything you learned from the first two presentations. I want you to put a star beside anything that you want to execute.

I love that

at the end of the first day. Okay, now, everything that has a star, I want you to revisit it and say, Is this still a priority for me, and does our company have the time, the money and the resources to execute that? I want you to put it on your to do list, and I really emphasize with everyone how they get the notes off. A paper and into an action a list of action items, and I'm with you on, like you said, you sit at the conference, you take notes, and then we even one step further. So about half our team was able to travel to tgr live this year. We had an inordinate amount of surgeries, and one guy's wife got in a car accident. We referred a great lawyer, though, but like, you know, five or six, seven people couldn't even come to tgr live. So we're doing our lunch and learns. We're replaying the videos, and some of them were so fired. Do you know Rob Levine?

Yes, yeah. He's actually, he's amazing as well. On stage,

his presentation was the, the highest rated, maybe tied with mine, but he did a fire presentation on intake, yeah, and we so we literally just watched that in our team lunch and learn, and we all took notes of things that we can help our clients integrate into their intake reporting and tracking systems.

I love it. I too am also am holding up my red notebook because I'm a note person. I go to tons of events, tons of conferences, and the big thing for me is I want to leave with something like we talked about, right? You're looking to get the best and the brightest on stage. I want you to leave with 510, items that are tangible, right, that you're not just be like, Oh yeah, that was a lot of fun. The Happy Hour is great. That party was killed. No, I want you to go and say, Okay, I'm going to go do this and start it, and I feel like that's where you get the value from these kind of think groups.

How do you coach people to actually take that those ideas and execute? 10% of is getting the ideas? Yeah, 90% is doing something with it.

No, then that's absolutely the challenge. And I think that's where technology comes into play, because everybody is so busy, right? And it's great to talk about doing things, but you've got to figure out what tech stack you can use that's going to allow you to actually execute on things, and you have to want to do it, right? I think that desire to exceed and Excel has to be there, or else it's going to be very difficult.

Now, I know you've been doing some stuff in this this afternoon. It'll be too late when this comes out, so maybe they can find the recording. You're doing a session on AI, and you've been doing a lot of work on open cloud, Claude co work and, yep, AI, agents, chat, GPT, agents. So tell everybody about, I think two part part one, how do you get innovation in your life and your team to jump on the latest things? We're doing a lot of work with agents. And then how do you implement that? What some of the examples of how you're using it@lawyer.com

Yeah, absolutely. I think step one is, for me personally, is I always like to experiment with technology that benefits myself, something that's interesting to me. I love travel, right? So I will go in and make a travel agent that will find me the best I love a deal too, right? Find me the best deals. Book my flights, get my hotel room, book my activities, right? Once I see that, it benefits me personally, then it's a lot easier for me to get into the the lawyer mindset that says, Okay, now that we understand this, and how are we going to utilize this for law firms or even our own business ourselves? So I know I was telling you the other day, every Friday, we have what we call Claude a where the everybody, right. It's not tech anymore, marketing, product. Everyone's building their own agents, and on Monday, we come around and we get to demo them. So some examples have been a full, complete AI native law firm, or maybe it's an AI social media account or managing the damn inbox that never seems to shrink and always grows, right? There are

literally you can program one of these agents to manage your inbox,

yep,

and it can just send you an update when you wake up in the morning. Here's all the emails that came in last night. Here they are prioritized like these are the ones from prospects, clients, people who want you to speak on a podcast. They prioritize it, they draft a reply, and you can just press send, or you can edit it. And you can set it up like, hey at 10 o'clock, 12 o'clock, two o'clock, at five o'clock. Here's the instant inbox summary, right?

It's true. It's funny. And one of our scrums, we built an AI agent Sandy to sit in and listen, right? It used to be Tom, and Tom would go through and put all the summary notes. And this is way more advanced than the Google Translate, right, or just the notes. This is critically thinking. You need to really be cautious and careful, right? And Tom would send around a report every single day after Scrum, and then Sandy came into the picture. And Sandy is fantastic. So then I wrote to Sandy, and I said, Sandy, who's better? You were Tom. And it was funny, because Sandy responds right? You

always get a great reply.

Always a great very political. Sandy got an A plus on. At but again, it just shows you, you know, that was an hour of Tom's time, and it was very important that Tom did that. But here we created our agent, Sandy to go in and listen and make sure that she was doing exactly what Tom did. And now Tom has an hour back in his day, which is so valuable for him.

Yeah, what Colleen is referring to is you can name your agent,

yeah,

debrief on on your background and how you write and how you want it to communicate with you. I thought I'd be really cool. And, like, I thought Optimus Prime was like the ultimate robot in Transformers, so I first called My robot optimist. And, like, he was really proud, and he's like, Oh, great name. Like, that's like, a Mega Morph, you know, I love that. And then I realized that Elon called all of his robots optimist. So then I said, Okay, I'm just going to call you prime. He's like, Oh, I love that. That's a great name. And then I told my wife, and she said, Oh, like, Amazon, I'm looking for a new robot, you know, a big, mega, mega robot.

Call them op maybe, right? But that's tough. You know? It's fun, right? You give them, they call it a vibe, right? What is prime gonna be like?

Are you vibe coding as well?

So I love, I love lovable. I have a six year old daughter, and every weekend we play on lovable we put her spelling tests on, and we make games so that she could learn she loves it so big fans, we've been vibing.

I like to, like, take it down to the lowest common denominator, yeah. Lovable dot Dev,

yep,

by the way, if you go to lovable.com it's like a men's underwear site. So I don't recommend that, unless that's your thing. But lovable dot Dev is amazing. So in about an hour, I've built a website for Jay berkowitz.com with a little bit about me and speaking and so basically, what vibe coding is, you can speak to it, you can add voice, or you can just type to it say, hey, I want to revamp the website Jay berkowitz.com and here's my all my blogs, and here's all my YouTube videos. So you know my voice and a little bit about me, and use this sort of tone of voice and this, and here's, and I uploaded a couple pictures, and it's a beautiful site that was like, I hardly had to touch it. I did it in about an hour. So lovable. Dot Dev is another great recommendation. Alina and I all right, well, we're at that time in the podcast. These are the short one liners, and you're on now a list of very famous people who've done these through the years, Gary Chuck and Jason Calacanis and Tony say, the founder of Zappos, who, unfortunately, is no longer with us. And I've asked these questions for about 15 years. I call these my one liners, or my short snappers. The first question is, tell us some apps or techniques you use for personal productivity?

Yeah, so I'm a G Suite, full on, fully committed. I can't live without my Google Calendar. I know it's very basic, but everything I do is in my G Suite, absolutely everything.

And do you have a personal wellness or fitness routine?

Yeah, so I work out three mornings a week. We do virtual workouts. Thanks to covid, my trainer now allows us to virtually work out. I think it's so important to just 630 right? Just get down there, start moving. I think it's so important.

Yeah, I've got to hit it every day or I get out of the routine. Yeah, best business books,

okay, it's funny. You were just talking about traction and the EOS system. So I recently read that, because everybody talks about Eos, and I thought, Okay, well, I'm late to this game. So I read traction, and then I called and we have a consultation to have a EOS implementation.

Unfortunately, you put in the hard work,

yeah? Because,

as the CEO and founder, what you should read is, get a grip.

Okay, I'll write that down,

and it's great if you could get through traction, there's a chance, yeah, a little bit of an integrator,

okay? Because

typically what happens with a lot of the visionaries is, like, traction is more like an operating manual. Yeah, he had a grip. Gina Wickman sort of told the story of one of his first clients in a parable, like a story format. And when I read that, I ate it up, and then I went back to traction. Yeah, finally, now I took notes and highlighted and put yellow stickies, and now, now I got it,

yeah, okay, good. Well, someone had recommended it, and I was like, oh, okay, I'll, I'll read that. I love reading. So grip

is okay, good for the founders, blogs, podcasts, YouTube, when something you subscribe to hits your feed and you stop everything else and listen to,

yeah. So TLDR, AI, I think that's one of the best in the game. Love it. I also love the daily sum that comes through every morning, more finance based, and my core is still pop culture based. So I listen to the toast, which is two fabulously hysterical women, and I listen to that every night before I go to bed.

Love it. I always like new content. Yeah, I know the answer this one, but I've got to ask, who's your NFL team?

And I said, j, e, t, s, jet. Come on, this year will be our year.

I'm a suffering Dolphins fan, but we do agree on one thing, because I'm also a Jets fan, but my jets are the Winnipeg Jets hockey team. So last two questions, what's a great introduction for you? Like, if people have listened to this and they made it this far, first of all, thank you for making it this far. The algorithm loves you. Who is an ideal introduction for Colleen and whose introduction for lawyer.com?

Yeah, absolutely. For me. Personally, I love talking to absolutely everyone. I think that the only way I grow and the company grows is when we hear everybody's stories. So small law, big law, middle law, non law. I want to hear it all. I want to know what's going out there, because I want to be able to when I come on and do podcasts or webinars, I'd like to share interesting stories for lawyer.com the benefit that we can help every lawyer, because we are in every state for every practice area.

And where can people get in touch with you?

Yeah. So I'm very active on LinkedIn, so I do a weekly newsletter on LinkedIn, which is one of my favorite things to do in the week. So check that out. Colleen Joyce on LinkedIn,

awesome. Colleen, this was a lot of fun, super informative. Great getting to know you a little bit, and I'm sure a lot of folks will be checking out lawyer.com

Thanks, Jerry. Appreciate it.