What Makes Someone Feel Truly Heard in a Conversation? | RR369

Hello, and welcome to another episode of

Relationships Rule. Today, I'm quite excited, because I've got

two people to interview and not just one, so it's kind of fun.

What if the most important business relationship you ever

built was one you were born into? Today, I'm talking with

sisters Amy and Nancy Harrington, co-founders of the

Passionista Project, a global community podcast and annual

summit dedicated to amplifying the voices of women and gender

nonconforming, non-binary people from all walks of life.

Together, I think it's together, and you can correct me if I'm

wrong. They have conducted over 1700 interviews, built a

sisterhood that spans the globe, and proven that when you lead

with genuine connection and authentic storytelling,

remarkable things happen. We're going to talk about how their

relationship with each other became the foundation for

everything that they have built. How storytelling creates the

kind of connection that lasts, and how they keep things

genuinely human as their community continues to grow. Amy

and Nancy, welcome to Relationships Rule.

Oh, thank you so much for having us. We're

really excited for this conversation.

Yeah, I'm excited too. So, before we get into

everything that you've built together, I want to start at the

beginning, because I want to know what it was like growing up

as sisters. Were there any like early signs that you would one

day run a business together?

I don't think we ever knew about the business

part of it, but I will tell you about our magical childhood,

because it was magical, I think.

Oh, that's special. Yeah,

the first.. the first one of my very first

memories as a child was, I was about four years old, and I

remember having a conversation with my mother, or I told her

that I was going to go to kindergarten next year, and I

think that you should have another baby to keep you company

while I'm away at school. And nine months later, Amy was born.

Oh

my goodness. Little did you know, little

did I know. And she was my best friend from

the moment she arrived. I remember the day we picked her

up at the hospital. I remember, you know, it's, and there are

five of five children in our family, and we are all very,

very, very close, and we love each other, and we're best

friends, but Amy and I have a very special bond, and yeah,

from the day she was born, we have been best friends, our

family life was very artistic. Our parents met at art school,

and so we were surrounded by art and music and theater and books,

and you know, our vacations were spent going to different

museums, and you know, going to see plays and musicals, and so

it was. it was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful childhood,

you know. It's not all peachy keen, obviously. Everybody has

stuff, but the majority of it was lovely. And our relationship

has always been special. But we were well into adulthood before

we ever had the idea of working together.

Yeah, you had separate careers for sure in the

same industry, were you in LA? Did you grow up in LA?

No, we're from a town called Braintree,

Massachusetts. It's about half an hour south of Boston,

historical town where John Adams and John Quincy Adams and

Sylvanus there are all were all born there. And so when I

graduated from college, Nancy and I both went to BU to Boston

University. The day after I graduated, I went downstairs and

said, "Okay, someone's going to take me to buy a car tomorrow

because I'm moving to California next week and I'm new cross

country. And so our other sister and I drove to California, and

she flew back, and I stayed out here by myself for 10 years, and

Nancy stayed back in Boston.

Wow, and

she had her own graphic design business and

theater company. I got into film and television out here, and we

would talk every week, and we would go on vacations together

every chance we got, and every conversation I would be like,

you know, you should really move to California. And after 10

years, I wore her down, and she came up, and she moved to LA

with her husband, and, oh, wow, for a long time, all of that.

That's great. So, going into business with a

sibling is something a lot of people would be very nervous

about. How did you figure out how to separate the sister

relationship from the business relationship? Or did you even

have to?

I don't think we ever did. Yeah, it would be

possible.

Yeah, it just flows right.

We've, we've, our dad had his own advertised.

Agency and our mom worked for him, and our sister worked for

him, and I worked for him for a while, and I certainly worked

with him. I wasn't always an employee, but because I studied

graphic design, I was there a lot and used equipment, and

yeah, so family business was kind of in our blood.

Sure,

and I was always an entrepreneur. I always

had, from the day I graduated from college, I started my own

graphic design business right away, and I, I very, I have had

very few years in my life where I've had a boss, so I've always

been an entrepreneur. Amy went the corporate route in the

studio system. Yeah, but so to me it was kind of a given, like,

oh yeah, of course, together, you know, it was a little bit of

more of a stretch for Amy and a little bit bigger leap for her,

sure, you know,

so, but at the same time, I had been in a, in

this kind of, literally, you know, what you hear about

Hollywood can be true, it's dog eat dog, and I hit the point

where I just really didn't trust many people that I was working

with, and so when Nancy suggested that we work together,

it was like, oh, I can work every day with the one person

that I trust the most on the planet. Okay, we'll figure out

what that looks like, but yes, I need that in my life,

so when you were, I just want to remind myself

that I got it in the right, I just want to read this because I

want to make sure that they've got it right. The Harringtons

have conducted over 17 interviews for their podcast

website and clients, including roughly 70 oral histories for

the Television Academy Foundation, with figures like

Julia Louis Dreyfus, Susie Orman, and Lucy Lawless. There's

a lot of names here that are very exciting, and so forth. But

what I want to understand is, you didn't do those interviews

together, or you did

some of them, we did,

yes, some of them, some of them happened.

Amy, I think, for you, when you were still.. no, it was when you

guys were with the Television Academy, then not when you were

with Warner Brothers.

Yeah, when I was at Warner Brothers, I was the

vice president of post-production effects for the

feature films, so I worked on The Matrixes and Harry Potter's,

and yeah, Batman's, and things like that, 250 movies. Nancy and

I, when we weren't off to work together, we did a bunch of

different things, and we all became interviewers, and we did

that, and still do, for our own website for the Television

Academy clients, and besides the television academy interviews,

which we trade off, one one of us does one, the other one does

the next one. Every other interview we've ever done,

unless one of us has been sick or tied up taking care of

something else. Every other interview we've done together,

so we've done 16 150 interviews together, and so I have

to ask the question now, because I'm such a

star-struck kind of person and pop culture person, so you said

you, when you did those interviews and you took turns

going one from the other, did anybody ever negotiate? No,

please, I want to interview,

I feel like there were a couple that, Amy,

that you were like, I really want to do that one, and we, but

generally the client will call us and say, Amy, we want you to

do

this one.

That's cool.

Every

once in a while, somebody will, you know,

rally for one. There was

a day that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

called us and said, I'm coming to, I know you guys want to do

everything together, but I'm going to need you to split up,

because I have two interviews in one day, and I'm going to need

you to split up, and one of them was with a rock star that we

can't say the name, okay? The other one was Mick Jagger,

that one, why would that one need to remain,

remain exactly right, yeah. It tells

you the two kind of people we were, the

other one. I would say he was not Mick Jagger, but he was

pretty. It

was huge, but, but they said the names, and in

my head I'm like, I'm gonna die if I don't do Mick Jagger, but

it was one of those, like, I'll let it unfold, because I'm sure

Nancy feels the same way, and it folded in a way that it was

like, I get to go to part of the other one, and then I get to go

produce the Mick Jagger interview, we didn't conduct the

interview, but we were in the room with Jagger, and it was

like, okay, that was one, and

honestly, I took the step back and let her

take the step forward, Mick Jagger, because I didn't want to

miss the chance to meet him, but I was so intimidated by the idea

of producing that shoot by myself that I was like, I don't

know if I can do,

yeah, so, but I

did get to go at the very, very tail. I'll end

and see him.

Well, I did want to put, get that all in

perspective, because you, having done that many interviews, I

want to ask you, what have all those conversations taught you

about what people actually need in order to feel truly connected

to someone? You know, it's when we're doing these interviews, I,

I noticed for myself I'm not interviewing Mick Jagger, but

I've got these famous people on the call right now who know

these famous people. Anyway, I feel that it's this - it's the

time when I go, as you would say, off script that makes it

more connected for me, and hopefully for my guests. So I

want to ask you, what, what you have to say about those things.

Yeah, is it my turn? Amy, yeah, I have a few

things. One is, you know, it, we were actually at an event this

weekend, and story I was going to tell, we went to see a

potential candidate for Lieutenant Governor of

California speak, and she was fabulous. We didn't know

anything about her. A friend of ours invited us. We walked in,

beautiful home in the Palisades, 40 people in the room, and she

spoke for about half an hour, and Amy and I were standing

there and listening to her very intently, and at the end of the

evening, we got to walk over and talk to her, and she was like, I

just wanted to thank you two ladies. She said, I, my eyes

just kept going right to you, because you were so attentive,

and you were smiling, and you made me feel so comfortable, and

I said to her, Well, that's because we're interviewers.

That's our interviewing skill. Because one of the things that

archival interviews have taught us is when you do an archival

interview, it's very important not to talk over the person,

because part of the process is you want to be able to take what

they say and pull it out and use it for other things, so you

don't want to talk over them. It's not like a, like, a lot of

podcasts, it's not a conversation, it's really, you

ask the question, you let them answer the question, but you

want them to know that you're listening, that you're paying

attention, that you're engaged, you know, it's not just I'm

reading questions off the thing, you answer it, and then I go to

the next question, so we naturally now, when we talk to

someone, when we're listening to someone, we nod our heads, we

smile, we make eye contact, so it really is this thing that

makes the person you're sitting across from feel comfortable and

welcome and open to sharing, and so that's definitely one of the

skills that we have learned through this, and I forget what

I was going to say, the other one, you probably remember, I

mean, I have a couple, one is in, and I think

that that the Nancy's talking about the visual kind of

encouragement, right, but also we're genuinely curious people,

and we're genuinely interested, we get really sucked into what

people are sharing with us, and are grateful and humbled by the

fact that people are willing to share this with us, and so it

starts off as like I need to smile and nod, but it's actually

really genuine, like we really feel like, oh my god, tell me

more, I want to know more, you know, and I think being

prepared, letting people know that you've done the research in

a way that's not like, oh, I'm going to tell you your life

story because I did the research, but, but like asking a

question that they might go, oh, wow, you really had to read up

on me to know that, and and the other really important lesson

that we've learned from the archive interviews is it starts

with their childhood, like you did today, and the second you

get someone in that head space where they're thinking of their

childhood, whether there was a good or bad childhood is

irrelevant, like it opens them up, it's almost like a therapy

session, like I almost cried five times in the first three

minutes of this interview, because I, it took me back to

this really beautiful time. And then now I'm just open. Now it's

like, oh, I want to share more, and so giving people those

memories to kind of crack them open, I think, helps a lot too.

Wow, there's so much there. Because, thank you,

ladies, both of you, for that. Because I knew when I first had

the intro chat with you guys that we were kindred, because I

had no trouble talking to you at all. You know, I've got this

celebrity thing that you know is really embarrassing sometimes,

because I, I, I love that whole Hollywood thing. It takes me

back, actually, to when my parents lived there, and I used

to go visit, and I think that's why, but yeah, but so much is

going on in my head right now. Okay, so I think that you said

so many things. You said you have natural curiosity, which I

do too. You said being well prepared, and for some reason I

think I let this one slide, and I didn't get well prepared ahead

of time, but I, you know, I feel as though I am comfortable

enough with you that I can make this work, okay? I got some

questions written down, but that's just, you know, it could

go this way or this way, but there's that, and also I want

to, I want to talk about the thing you said about starting

with the what did you call it, the

childhood, yeah, but

what did you call it?

We used to start with, like, the childhood or

their early,

you said you called it something like it was

for the archival

archival interviews, but you said that

we start with a child, we start with

their childhood. We start with literally, we

actually, the archive interviews start with what was your name at

birth.

Oh, wow. Interesting. Okay, so I just

want to clarify, the archival interviews, those were

interviews you did for the Television Academy. We do those

foundation

academy foundation, and they're three or

four hours long,

right?

And they literally start with what was

your name at birth, and they go, the final question is always,

how would you like to be remembered, and you talk about

their entire life and career in between,

and these are these are famous people,

yes, for the most part, the

most part, right, in the television,

they're in the television industry, there are

in front of the camera, but there's also people behind the

camera, so there may not be famous, but they're involved

industry

famous adjacent,

so that's that's an art in itself, because you

have to make a bunch of questions sound interesting,

like in as an interview, but you also said something that is one

of my biggest faults in interrupting people, and even

going, uh, huh, yeah, which I do, but I shouldn't, because you

can't get that out of there, or maybe you can, but I can't,

yeah, but it's hard,

and again, for a podcast, it makes, I think

that's what makes podcasts relatable to people and

accessible to people, is the human element of it, and the

fact that it's a conversation, and you might talk over each

other, and that's okay, because it's a conversation, you know.

The archival interviews are a very specific interview, so

they're a little more rigid, and it depends on who does them too.

I mean, the Television Academy has a very specific way they do

them, other people don't do them as rigidly.

Sure, I understand. Okay, so let's move

a little bit to one more question around this. You talk a

lot about giving women the space to share. It's partly connected

to the Passionista project, but I want to just ask you this. You

talk a lot about giving women the space to share their

authentic, unfiltered stories. Why is that so important? And

what happens in a relationship when someone finally feels safe

enough to tell the truth? Because there must be a, you

must get an aha moment, or you see it in their face, or

whatever.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that it, we live

in a world where people are expected to be, you know, social

media ready and have everything perfect and in place. And look

at what I had for lunch, isn't it perfect? And look at how I

raise my kids, aren't they gorgeous and perfectly buttoned

up? And in reality, we all have our stuff every day, that's

like, oh, I'm glad no one, I'm glad no one is asking me to turn

my camera around and see how messy this room is, because I

haven't had 10 minutes to clean it up, and and then the other

layer of that, you know, our community is, you know, very

open to people from all backgrounds, so people from all

different communities and experiences, and I think the

only way you know living in a kind of the world we live in

right now, which can be very divisive and separated and

contentious, we have built a space where people can come and

be themselves, and you know, we hate to say authentic, because

people, that's a buzzword that gets gets overused, but they

really can, they can come and just be like, I'm having a bad

day, anybody else dealing with this, oh my god, I lost my job,

does anybody have any, whatever it is, like there's room for it,

and also like, talk about some pretty intense issues that

they're dealing with, and it helps them get it out, so it's

cathartic for them. It allows all of us to support them. If

they didn't tell us, we wouldn't know that they needed help, but

the other thing we really encourage. Courage, and this

goes back to that archival interview skill, like we

encourage everybody to listen before they react to anything

that they might not be familiar with, and to exhibit that

curiosity, like, oh, I didn't know someone from that community

might be going through that experience right now, or I saw

that on the news, but I didn't realize that's what it's like

for someone that I personally know and have come to love, and

it might cause them to look at the situation in a different

way, to be more understanding, to be more open, to be

supportive, and to make a difference in that friend's

life, and then maybe a broader societal change, and the final

pieces, it just allows us all to go, like, oh my god, I'm not the

only person going through that, like, oh, I thought I was the

only one that was in this narcissistic relationship, and

finally got the courage to get out, or I'm in a narcissistic

relationship, and here's someone that was in one and they got

out. Oh, it's so good to hear about their journey. So, there's

just so many levels. If you're vulnerable and you open yourself

up to actually sharing, and you listen to what the other people

are saying, that the ripple effect is beyond measure.

Awesome. awesome. So, let's get into that a little

bit. The Passionistas Project, which started as a podcast and

grew into a full global sisterhood. At what point did

you realize that you were building something much bigger

than you originally planned? And how did your relationship with

each other help you navigate through this? It's your turn,

Nancy.

I think we realized it after it was built,

you know. I think, especially in the beginning, we literally just

did a podcast. We're like, we really, we've been thinking for

a long time about doing a podcast. We didn't really want

to do another pop culture podcast or celebrity thing. We

felt like that was covered, and we thought for a long time about

it, and and we finally realized around the time of the Me Too

movement that we needed to use all our skills to help help

women who weren't being seen to get have a voice, you know. So,

was

the podcast originally sorry, was the

podcast originally just the two of you, or was

no, it was always interviewing, we always

interviewed, but we didn't, we wanted, we realized that we

wanted to just shine a light on women who weren't in the

spotlight after years of interviewing celebrities, and so

that's what it was, it was a side project, we were still

doing our celebrity interviews, we still did the red carpet, so

you know, but it was like, let's help these women too. And then

next thing we knew, we're doing an annual summit, that's a

global three day event. It's like, oh, how did that happen?

You know, it was just, we just sort of like followed along and

said, 'Oh, let's try this, let's do that. And you know, we

finally, in 2023 a friend of ours said, 'You know, you are,

you guys are driving down the road while you're reading the

map,

very entrepreneurial thing. Yeah, and

maybe

you should pull over, take a stop, go to a

rest stop, pull over, get the map out, and make your plan, and

then get back on the road. And we're like, oh, okay. So we did.

We took almost all of 2023 and rebranded, and really went back

to the very like, what are your keywords? We landed. Finally

took us a while, but we landed on the sisterhood. You know,

people have always told us that they wish they had what we have,

and you know our, our undying support for one another. We have

each other's backs, no matter what. We have a blast together,

we're there to cheer each other on and lift each other up, and

and we finally, in that year that we rebranded, realized that

what we need to do is welcome other women into our sisterhood,

continue the conversations that are happening at these summits

that die off after the summit's over, and, and really give

people, give women a chance to support each other and to be

authentic with each other.

It's amazing. Did you at any time since you

started this project, did you ever marry the two, your past

and your present, in that are there women that you interviewed

in your jobs that supported you either monetarily or

emotionally, or whatever, with the project, because I just

wonder, did they cross paths at all?

It's interesting, not really the

famous women, although they're more than welcome to support us.

We did give. An award to Lorraine Newman, who was one of

the founding members of Saturday Night Live, but don't know

that Jeopardy answer, I knew. Yeah, I knew

you knew. Yeah, we gave her, we had interviewed,

done her archive interview, and we gave her an Icon Award. We

give Passionistas Persist Awards, so we gave her an icon

award. The women that really, that we have benefited from is

like, for example, Karen Herman, who Karen was the woman who was

one of two women, Karen Herman and Jenny Matts, who originally

hired us to do work for the Television Academy, and they

both really took a chance on us, and you know, come and do this

red carpet. We don't know how to do a red carpet. Oh, don't

worry, we'll teach you. Okay, can you edit that what you shot?

We don't know how to edit. Don't worry, and that all led to

Cameron finally saying, do you guys want to do your first

archive interview, which is, I mean, it's one of the most

prestigious collections in the world, I

can imagine.

And for her to give us that opportunity was

mind-boggling. And she, we, while Karen, Karen went on to

the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which is how we started working

there, but during Karen's tenure at the academy, we probably did

50, at least 50 of the interviews, and in every

interview, Karen, we would do the research, we would write the

questions, and then we would sit with Karen, and she would teach

us the best way to restructure the questions and to form the

questions into the arc of the story, and she has been our

mentor and our guiding light, along with her sister Beth,

who's a, you know, Grammy-nominated Emmy-winning

documentary filmmaker. Those two really taught us how to do

interviews, and so we have them constantly in our circle of

friends and mentors and sources that we can go to and just women

that we've worked with, like at the TV Academy and in other

spaces like that, that we continue to support each other

and care for each other, you know.

I think that's really wonderful, and I think

it's also really telling, because I don't think about it

as much unless I'm talking to people like you, because you're

so experienced with interviews, it would make one think, God, am

I doing okay with my interview, you know? And I mean, I, when I

started my podcast, I just like talking to people, I mean, I

didn't have the same, you know, stress around the tech, you

know, how to arc it, and the questions, and whatever.

Although I must say that I've learned a little bit through

getting some help from Claude, I will admit, just lately, to help

me, and when I ask, when I put information in, and I ask AI to

help me develop a few questions. It asks me questions about,

well, do you like this line of thing, or that line, or this

line of questioning, and because it wants to give the story arc,

and that's making sense, much more sense to me now than it

ever did before. So, there's a lot to doing a good interview, I

know that, and I just hope that, I, you know, hold that mind hold

up, but in,

you're doing fabulous,

saying that, you know, it does make you think,

because I've also been on a guest on podcasts, and sometimes

it's like they ask the same five questions to everybody, and, or,

you know, it's they look like you said they're looking at

their sheet, and they can't veer from it, and, and I mean, it's,

it's, there's skills in, and there's an art to it, so I

understand that, but it does take a certain type of person,

for sure, I think, yeah, one who's curious, right? Yeah, and

made me think of something else I was going to ask you. Now,

I've forgotten that happens when you get old, that's the part

we know,

yeah. Anyway, okay,

we'll tell you about the board game we're

developing, but podcast for another time, okay?

And do you still have a podcast? Right.

Yes, we do.

And has it has its format changed because it's

now, is it with the passionistas? Like, do you

interview the people in your community or people that it's

helped your community?

Yeah, it's the same format. We are still

interviewing women who are following their passions, and

that really can be anything, you know. We, we do interview a lot

of women that are in our community, or in people we

interview become part of our community. Is this as soon as

you sit down to an interview with us, you are officially a

Passionista. So, okay, I'm

looking forward to that. Yeah, yeah, that's

great. Right, all right. For business owners in my audience

who want to build a community around their work, not just a

following, but a real community, where do you tell them to start?

I mean, it's all about finding your people, you

know. There are so many communities, there's people have

so much choice and there's not a competition. It's really like

there's enough human beings on the planet, there are enough

women, in our case, on the planet to go around, and it's

really about who do you connect with, you know, our community

tends to draw women who are doing it on their own or in a,

in the C suite, but feeling like they have to be buttoned up

while they're at work and can't really share with people like

how they're really feeling, can't let the the guard down at

all, and and they're looking for a place where they can have feel

less alone, they can have connection, and they can meet

people who understand what it's like, especially the

entrepreneurs and kind of the thought leaders, activists,

coaches in our community. Every single person in our community

truly is the kind of person that asks what they can do for you

before they do it. Did they ask what you can do for them in the

businesses they're building, the work they're doing, the

nonprofits they're starting, it's all giving back. So those

are our people, but if you have whatever your, you know, tone is

whatever your offering offering is to the people that are around

you, that's going to speak to somebody, and you know you have

to be patient. It takes, you know, building a community.

People told us before we started, like it's a lot of

work, and we were like, oh yeah, you know, it'll be fine. It's a

lot of work, and especially the approach we take, which is we

are, you know, we're growing really well, but we also never

want to grow to a point where we don't know who the people in the

community are, because we really, you are our family, we

want to know you, we want to know, oh, they want to meet this

kind of person, or they're having this issue. Who can we

introduce them to? So that's just our style, but it takes a

lot of effort. You really have to care about the people in your

community. You have to let them know what your guidelines are,

so that they know what they can and can't do. Our community is

really open as long as people are nice to each other, they can

pretty much do whatever they want, but it's, it's a lot of

work, but it's the rewards and the benefit are immeasurable,

because nobody benefits more from being in our community than

we do.

Yeah, I would also add to that, to be sure, to

be authentic, whatever your message is, you can't start a

community with this, with a fake social media persona, with a,

you know, it, people will see right through it, so, and, and

we, we learned that lesson, not that we were fake in the

beginning, but we regarded, because we felt like we needed

to be the leaders and we needed to present ourselves a certain

way, and it wasn't until almost a year in when the California

fires, wildfires were happening a year and a half ago, and you

know, we personally thank God we're not immediately affected

by it, although we knew many, many people that lost their

homes, and at one point during those fires, that area that we

lived in was surrounded by four or five wildfires, and it was a

very scary time, and a lot of people were reaching out and

asking how we were, so we started to do a daily update in

the sisterhood about how we were and what was going on, and it

was in that time that we realized that if we are just

open books and completely authentic, good or bad, that's

when the people really started getting involved in the

community and really paying attention to what was going on,

because we were being completely vulnerable and authentic. So, I

think to have a successful community, you have to do that.

Yeah, I think it's funny because I was

interviewing. I did another interview this morning, and it

was with a girl that does a lot of content writing for LinkedIn

for her clients and different clients, and she does like about

100 pieces of content a month. I'm like, shoot me now, because

that, yeah, that anyway, but she's really good at what she

does, and we were talking about, you know, the authenticity being

such a key point, even with that, two things that you said,

one, it takes time to build your visibility and your credibility.

On LinkedIn, so you have to be patient, because you're building

your community there, the same as you would a real-life

community, and and then with your content, it people can see

through it when it's boring and all the same, and and maybe not

even written totally by you or whatever, but yeah, she was

really good, and so you're making me think the same things

that we have to learn to be patient and stay in our lane and

keep, you know, being true to who we are before we do any of

these things, because otherwise it doesn't work. Totally doesn't

work. So, I just, before we, I just want to ask you a few quick

questions before we wrap up. I probably should have wrapped up

already, but it's my show, right? Is that. is there. do you

ever wonder, like, I mean, Nancy, you were an entrepreneur

all the way along, Amy, you had a big career, and then you've

opted out and started to become your own boss in that regard.

Did either of you wish you'd started earlier doing the thing

together? Do you ever wish that you could, you know, do you see

it would have been different, or was it laid out the way it was

supposed to?

I think it happened exactly when it was

supposed to, and the one thing, Nancy, and it's funny,

separately, and once we started on this crazy journey together,

because the stuff we did in between our first careers and

where we are now were so any everybody talks about the year

of yes. We've basically had it life of yes, where it'd be like

someone said, "Can you do this? It would go, "Yeah, sure, I'll

figure it out. We've constantly, along the way, we're like, "Why

are we learning how to do that? Like, at one point, we were

going to help someone start a cable network. Like, why are we

learning that skill? Why are we learning how to be interviewers?

Why does Nancy know how to do graphic design? Why do I know

how to take a story and reconstruct it from what you

have in front of you? And once we built the community, and we

have the, you know, being able to communicate with all

different kinds of personalities, that is such a

skill I learned from the studio system. We have our own

television streaming network, Passionistas TV. Oh, we learned

how to do the cable network. Oh

my goodness, we

taught ourselves how to podcast. We have our

podcast. We also have a podcast network. Okay, we needed to know

about podcasting, like every skill that we have amassed

individually or together is now being used by us, and we can

pass that on to other people in our community, and it's so clear

to us that that the Passionistas Project and the Sisterhood and

helping people write their books and the anthology chapters, it's

so clearly our purpose that now everything we did together and

separately makes sense, and I think if we had had any other

taken any other paths in our journey, we wouldn't have been

ready for this when it finally came to us that this is what

we're supposed to be doing with their lives,

that makes total sense. So, how can people find

you? I will put in the show notes, but where would you like

them to be directed?

Excellent, they can find us at the

Passionistas project.com and if they go to the Passionistas

project.com backslash roadmap, they can download our 3030

minutes to find your story road map. It's a little free gift to

them. Yeah, and and that's the best way. Once you're on our

website, then you can find us on socials, you can sign up for the

Sisterhood, everything else.

Yeah, there's a free membership to the

Sisterhood, so anybody, any woman or gender non-conforming,

non-binary person that's interested in at least checking

it out, you can sign up for free and poke around,

that's amazing. Thank you so much. So this has

been a like really fun for me, it's a beautiful reminder that

that the most powerful thing that we can bring to our

business is exactly who we already are, the Passionista

Passionistas project is living proof that when you lead with

awesome authenticity, build on trust and make people genuine,

feel genuinely seen. Hang on one second. There we go. The

community takes care of itself. I am so glad that our paths

cross, and I know everyone listening is walking away with

something to think about, for anyone who wants to find you, we

will put the links in the show notes. And if today's

conversation reminded you of a relationship in your life or

your own business that deserves a little more attention, reach

out to that person, because that's where it all starts. And

I thank you. Ladies, so much for being my guest. I'm hoping I

don't know if it's going to happen this summer or not, but

I'm working on it. I'm hoping that I'll get down to LA and be

able to meet you in person, so that would be so love that

we would love that.

I would too. So, thank you again, and remember to

stay connected and be remembered.

Thank you so much for having us. You're.