Stop Going Quiet -- Dawn Andrews on AI and Real Connection. | RR367

We're good, alright. So, welcome to welcome

to the show, everyone. I'm laughing because this is take

two with a wonderful woman that I interviewed a couple of weeks

ago, but my tech, my tech meter was not doing well, and it

didn't record, so I'm actually seeing it as a bonus, because I

love this lady, she has become a friend, and I love the chance we

get to talk again. So, before I introduce her, I'm just going to

say, Dawn, welcome to the show.

Thank you. I'm so excited, I'm back. I'm glad to

be back for the second time. I

know I love it. It's a bonus. So, what we're

going to talk about today is kind of.. well, let me start

again today. I'm sitting down with someone who has changed my

thoughts around AI, in a sense that that's saying something,

because I've been on quite the AI journey myself lately, and

she's put different perspective in there, and so we're going to

look at that. Dawn is an executive leadership consultant,

a business strategist, and host of the She's That Founder

podcast. She works with female founders running businesses from

500k to $5 million helping them step fully into their role as

CEO without burning out or losing what what makes them

great at what they do. What I find so refreshing about Dawn is

that she's not selling AI as a magic fix. She sees it as

something that gives you back the most precious thing in

business, time, time to show up fully for the relationships that

matter. And we know that I love that part. That is a

conversation I couldn't wait to have again on relationships

rule, and I think before I get into the questions with her, I

want to just mention that at the end of our non-recording last

time we discovered that in fact we have relationship in common,

my sister's ex-business partner, and, and it was kind of fun to

discover that we actually, you know, are one step closer, so to

speak, in that Kevin Bacon thing, or whatever you want to

call it, yeah, six degrees. So that was kind of special too.

So, Dawn, before we get into the practical stuff, I want to start

somewhere personal. What is the biggest relationship mistake

that you see female founders making, and does it surprise

you, or is it always the same story?

The biggest mistake I see female founders

making with their relationships is one that I make myself, and

it's, it's trusting that everybody is always there

waiting for you, and you don't necessarily follow up or stay in

touch, or just just show up, just be visible with regularity,

especially in the relationships that you want to nurture and

build, and even the most important ones, like sometimes

we just kind of go silent or go dark, and need to need to

connect back with people, and I like, I make that mistake

myself. That's part of the reason I'm so bullish on AI,

and, and, and I think the what's underneath that is that we think

that it takes too much effort or energy when, especially

nowadays, it really doesn't require as much as maybe it used

to, just to be able to stay in contact with people.

You know, it's funny, I just saw a friend of

mine post about that, that very thing on LinkedIn this morning,

and I preach on it myself, and I make the mistake also, as we all

do, because we get, we're not organized enough, or we get busy

looking for the next new shiny star or person, and, and I think

it's an old stat now, but I think it's still true. 68% of

your clients leave because of indifference, because we don't

pay attention to them, and there's so many more shiny

objects out there for them that they don't care anymore, they'll

just move on, and that hasn't changed with technology, without

technology, whatever, it just takes a little time to show

people that you care, and that's all it takes, a card, a note, a

text, an email, a phone call that you know isn't going to get

answered, but you can leave a message, right? So it's just, it

is still really one of those things in my heart that I think

needs to be paid more attention to. So,

well, and from a revenue perspective, because if

you look at, I don't know how true it is necessarily for a

product based business, but for service based businesses, you

make more money from the clients you've already had than you do

from the acquisition costs and pursuit of a new client, like

it's we all, you know, most of us that are entrepreneurial and

in service based businesses love shiny new toys,

yeah, so

we pursue them with vigor, but. But where your

revenue, like your bottom line, actually changes is in going

more deeply with the people who already know and love you and

trust you, have received your great services, and the growth

of your business, like the next iteration of your services comes

out of the needs of those clients. So it's everything to

be able to stay in touch.

Absolutely, you have a really clear way of

thinking about where AI fits in a business relationship. You

divide it into three distinct roles. Can you help us through

that framework? Because I think it reframes the whole

conversation about AI and human connection.

Yeah, so as I was thinking about AI, like maybe,

and maybe your, you, and or your listeners have experienced this,

like once you realize you have something that can help you

write that email that's taking a little bit too long to write, or

help you come up with content for LinkedIn, even if it doesn't

really sound like you or isn't quite on point, you get really

excited, you're like, oh my gosh, I have so much more time,

but I realized in grabbing that time back that I needed to put

some parameters around where AI contributes, where I contribute,

and you know, since we're talking about LinkedIn, and here

on relationships rule, like where, where it crosses over

with LinkedIn. So my three buckets, when it comes to AI in

relationship building, is what AI handles what humans own, and

what LinkedIn does. So, the examples would be what AI can

handle for you and give you your time back and keep the follow-up

happening. Is context recall like who is this person? Where

did they come from? Where do I know them from? What have they

done? It can draft the outreach, like we talked about. It can

help with your follow-up timing, like in reminding you, okay, you

haven't talked to Janice in like three months, maybe you want to

ping her and send something. It can help you personalize things

at scale. So I have a free community, the AI for Founders

community on LinkedIn, and it helps me personalize messages,

direct messages to everybody that is in that group, so that I

can stay in touch with them on a more frequent basis, rather than

sending the exact same message to every single person in the

list of people that are in the community, and the last, and the

last thing is, it can help surface who's gone quiet in your

network as well, like maybe you had some sort of relationship or

conversation going, and then it's not going for some reason.

Okay, I knew I should have stopped you, because

I forget the first question I was getting. Okay, so let's go

through the three things again. Just the first one is it helps

AI

handles it, and it can help you with context,

outreach, follow-up timing, personalization.

Okay,

and who's gone quiet?

So, how does AI help you with your reminders,

for example, to reach out? How does that look? What does that

look like?

So, it helps me, because I'll put together,

depending upon what it is that I'm doing at the moment, like

maybe there's a course or a training or webinar or something

that I have that's coming up that I think would be really

interesting in my perfect moments, and I'm not saying I do

this consistently every time, but in my perfect moments, I'll

put together a list of people that I think would be the right

match for whatever that offering is, and then from there it can

go through either I can have it review LinkedIn for me or review

my email sends to let me know when's the last time I reached

out to that person and what did I reach out to them about.

How can I do that?

Because I have it in my CRM, like I pull

everybody's information into my email CRM.

Oh, like a separate standalone CRM system,

yeah,

that your AI can,

yeah,

it's connected to

exactly,

okay, okay, yeah,

and so it can help me see, okay, cool, Janice would

be great for that, but you guys haven't really, like, she's

gotten your weekly emails, she's only opened one of them over

over whatever time period, so you may need to either call or

send a physical message or send a few emails just directly to

her to warm that relationship up, like it just gives me

quickly that data about that person, so that I can be more

effective with my time or with my team's time in reaching out

to the people that are the right fit for this thing that I'm

offering.

So, do you, what CRM do you use, or is it

proprietary type of thing?

I use Go High Level.

Okay. Okay, so you have Claude, I think. Do you

use Claude? And then you have it connected to

you can build custom API connections.

Yeah, yeah, through cowork.

Yeah, yeah. Well, you can. You can code custom AP,

so Claude code, so you can build a custom connection. Yeah,

okay,

yeah, and. I also inside High Level, even separate

from AI, I created a scoring system, which you can do inside

High Level, so that each time I send an email, it'll tell me if

somebody opened it, and or if they click the link, and each of

those activities gives them a certain amount of points, and so

I can look at the points of everybody that's in my system,

and see, you know, if somebody has 800 points, then they've

been engaging with me in a lot of different ways, and if

somebody has two points, they opened one thing, maybe, you

know,

no, wow,

it helps to direct where your energy goes,

yeah, that's that's pretty impressive,

actually, I like it, so I don't know where I got this question

from. I love the idea of an AI manifesto, a set of guidelines

for how a business uses AI. Where did that idea come from,

and what goes into one?

Well, an AI manifesto, I mean, for me it

just came together because this is the benefit. Okay, I'm Gen

x1. of the benefits of being Gen X is that we have lived through

technology adoptions, like people weren't using computers,

and then they started using computers, like I was a, you

know, a very young person when that happened, but it's like

there is a definite before and after, and there is definitely a

before and after now with AI, and knowing how and where and

when you want to use AI in your business, and what for, I think

is really important, because I have experienced already as a

founder using AI for the last three years times when I would

basically seed my point of view or my judgment or my decision

making over to AI, AI like AI knew better, and in a certain

sense it's that's not wrong because it's aggregating

everything on the internet and everything in the algorithm to

tell me whatever my response, my answers are that it's giving me,

but at the same time it was, I was cutting myself out of the

smartness of whatever I was about to do next that AI had

suggested. So an AI manifesto is just simply like we use AI in

this way, for instance, we use it to draft, but not for the

final thing that we post, or we use it for figuring out who we

want to reach out to, and then it's the responsibility of my

team, or of myself, to reach out to that person, or we don't use

client names and client details when we put information in to

get information out. We protect the safety of it. We don't use

AI to train. We don't use our content to train the models

right. We don't use tools like Deep Seek or Grok because they

have horrible safety policies. So there's a lot that's going on

in the world of AI and in the world of safety and ethics, and

we're all kind of trying to navigate it on the fly, but

having some of those own, some of those boundaries determined

for yourself and your business, I think is just a really helpful

place to start, and especially if you have a team that's using

it along with you.

Yeah, I think you're right that we have to, if

we're going to explore and learn these new tools, then we need to

be responsible about knowing more than just, oh, this, this

is fun, let's do this again, you know? Just actually saw a post

on Instagram, and I forget who wrote it, but it was, it was

talking about it's funny, because it was talking about the

ethics, or lack of, around Sam Altman and the owner of Chat

Chat GPT, because there was a lot, there's a lot going on in

the American government that just happened with that, and

everything, but it was funny, I already knew, and a little bit,

but it made me want to stop using chat altogether, which I

hadn't, but I switched over to Claude mostly. But it is

important to know the ethics and the boundaries and the things

that they're doing at the helm of these things, because it's

frightening, actually. You know, it can be well,

and none of us, like, I want to be clear, I'm a

heavy-duty AI user. I like anything that's new, I'm willing

to try, like, I'm, I'm, but none of us are AI experts, even

people that have been working in AI in the last 10 to 15 years

and developing, you know,

yeah,

AI-driven work are still none of us are experts,

because it is so constantly shifting. So that's why I really

like the idea of an AI manifesto, because it's your

boundaries at that given moment, and it can adapt and grow as you

learn more, as your team learns more, as policies change, as

tools change. Change, but having a starting point for what you're

willing to share, not share, do not do, use, not use. I think is

really helpful.

I think the other thing that a lot of people worry

about, and I think I don't think you and I do this because we are

aware of these things, but that people use AI sometimes to

manage relationships, which make the whole thing, of course, less

real, and, and I think it's like, I don't know, it's also

not just relationships, but it's, I guess, it's content too,

because you can tell now, you can see the AI-driven content

that's that's out there all everywhere and hasn't been

tweaked, let's say, you know, with the personal touch.

Yes. Well, there's so there's a couple things that

I say all the time. AI informs and you decide, so whatever

question you're asking, let it be the information, just like

Google used to do back in the day, like Google some

information, and then make your decisions based on whatever your

research was. So, AI informs, and you decide, and then AI

drafts, and you finalize.

Yeah, so

it's, it's great to have it save you that time as

a leader and somebody who's busy, but you, you have, you

have to give yourself the gift of putting yourself into it,

and, and that gift gets passed on to the people that you're

connecting with. Yeah, the humans own part of that

framework that we were talking about,

right? So, you talk about founders becoming

bottlenecks in their own follow-up, and that's a good

segue into this, not because they don't care, but because

there's no system holding it together, what does that

actually cost them in terms of real relationships?

I mean, kind of everything, like I don't, I

don't mean to be hyperbolic, but yeah, you know, I know it

because I do it, and I've lived it, where you're like, oh my

gosh, I need to reach out to a few people, and, but I've got

too many other things on the list today that need to happen

first, and, and for every person that I'm not reaching out to,

like, my, my business cycle, my business selling cycle can be

anywhere from 20 minutes to 18 months.

Yeah,

like it can take that long to close a deal, and

honestly, the ones that are closing in 20 minutes are

usually because of something I'm, I said or started saying 18

months ago that now has had enough repetition that that

person is ready to close a deal with me now. So, I mean, it's

it's costing you the future of your business, because whatever

it is that you're sharing today is the beginning of what, like,

that's the ticking clock for whatever your sales cycle is.

So, if it's three months, 18 months, whatever, and there are

times when business has been really slow, maybe the economy

had some sort of big swing, and those relationships that I had

nurtured were the ones that came in and kept the business going,

because I could shake the trees, so to speak,

right,

and talk to the people that I'd managed to

maintain my connection with, and just to be like real, real,

Janice, like, as I'm saying this, I'm like, ooh, I really

gotta catch up with some people, like I'm realizing how much I

need to get back into, you know, reconnecting with folks,

yeah. And when you start to do it again, it

feels so good. Yeah, it really does, because you feel it

stirring the pot, as well as opening up doors. It's great. I

know I go through cycles as well. It's funny how that

happens. Anyway, you work with founders who are used to being

the person everyone leans on, the one with all the answers,

all the relationships, all the institutional knowledge. How do

you help them start trusting AI with any part of that when

letting go doesn't come naturally to them?

Yeah, so AI, it's baby steps, and I mean, or big

swings, if you're a big swing kind of person, go for it, but,

but I think that AI can help get out of your head the way that

you like to work, what's important to you, what your

standards are, what your values are, and literally the process

that you want people to follow, like we call them SOPs, but

there's so much more than that, and AI can help founders pull

that information out and even create their own AI brain that

their team can call upon to help build trust and consistency, so

that founders who are a little bit more nervous about handing

things off can start to see evidence that it's working

before they do the big Passover of whatever a project or a

responsibility

is. Yeah, it's funny how I tested that actually

the other day, because I just created my brain in Claude, and

I had it in in one of my projects, and the project.

Project is to help create for my I try to do a framework for my

clients of their about section that we're going to discuss and

build, so we have a framework that that AI has helped me with,

based on the information I put in about that person, but

because my brain was in there, it was skewing it into my, my

sort of style, right? Not necessarily my client style. As

soon as I took that out of that project, it was better.

Yes.

So, you know, you, yeah, it was interesting

because I hadn't thought about it until, until I did that.

Well, okay. Do you make pancakes, Janice?

Yes, I do. Do

you add anything special to the batter?

Not anything special. I follow a recipe,

so we make them, and we usually add like a

teaspoon of vanilla or something. Yes, squeeze the

lemon.

Okay,

so that's to me, that's kind of using AI in your

AI brain is that you start, you have all of this stuff is so

iterative, you have to be willing to like give it a try,

get messy, see what the outcome is, learn and continue to

improve, and I think there's a little bit of a hesitation for

folks like some folks are in and using it indiscriminately with

no no boundaries, no voice, no like great, it's done. I'm just

going to post it. There it is, like it's easy. And then there

are some folks that are like, well, I haven't really tried it,

or I had it write one email and it was bad, so I didn't use it,

like they're hesitating. There's a middle ground, and it's it's

just trying it and continuing to learn and grow and improve with

it, and that's exactly what you just described, is the brain is

super helpful when you're trying to develop something that is

your voice and your two

of us, right? Yeah,

exactly,

yeah, but

it may not be the thing to add in, it might not be

the teaspoon of vanilla to add in when you know when you're

working with a client,

so how did, like, Debbie, are you self-taught, or

are

you? Yeah, 100% I was part of a mastermind

community with someone who, who was in the early stages of using

AI with a tool called Jarvis back in the day, which was,

yeah, which was a, it was Open AI's back end with a wrapper on

the front of it to help people with marketing, to help them

with blog posts, Twitter things like that. Twitter, when Twitter

was still Twitter, and so that was the tool that we all kind of

gathered around to help with our marketing, and from playing with

that, everything has grown and exploded from there.

Interesting, you, you built a custom podcast

dashboard using Claude. I understand that pulls data from

Buzzsprout, Apple, and Spotify, right? For someone listening who

thinks AI tools are only for tech-savvy people, what does

that tell them about what's actually possible? I mean, I'm

fascinated by this, and I don't really know how it works.

Yeah, I mean, look, you guys, it was a hot

mess trying to build this, and it's, it's still taking a lot of

time. Was it worth it? I mean, so far, ish, it is 100% an

experiment, but I just found for myself that in all the things

that I'm covering off on, as the founder of my business, being

able to get the data that I needed from all of these

platforms was taking too much time to, like, open the thing,

grab this part, open the thing, grab the next part, like it,

because there is no central place, no, and not, and not

where all of it comes together, either that, or it was my one of

my team members doing it, which was great, but it wasn't. It

wasn't happening quickly and easy enough. It wasn't happening

in time to be able to make like on the fly decisions about what

it is that I wanted to do, and so I just started what I did.

Literally, it said, "Hey, Claude, in the chat. Here's what

I'm trying. Here's what I want to try and accomplish. I want to

be able to look at a report or a dashboard that shows me these

numbers with this frequency, and then be able to interpret that

context and tell me what I need to do next, what my next move

might be, so that I can continue to grow and improve my podcast.

Did you just give it your, your URL for your

podcast on each of those different platforms?

So that's where Claude Code comes in. But I

started in chat because if you, if you think about how anything

gets coded, and most of us don't know anything about how coding

works, right, so this is, and, and I'm not, not an expert, just

saying this right out loud, but anytime you build something,

what I have learned is that there's usually a use case and a

set of requirements, and that's what I was using, Claude. Help

me figure out Claude chat to help me figure out first. So,

imagine I was hiring a coder,

yeah, to

develop this for me. I had that conversation in

Claude chat and asked it to ask me more questions to interview

me as a coder, so that I could get to what I might give to a

coder to develop this, and it helped me parse out the

different steps of the project to be able to get this built and

usable,

and,

and I know it can sound like, oh, well, that was

so easy, but there, there are lots of different parts and

connections and things that that come together to be able to make

this work, but for where I am in the development of my podcast,

in my personal budget from a business standpoint, and my own

desires for learning, the budget is on point, because the only

thing that it was costing me was however much time I wanted to

invest in continuing to grow and build it out,

and so would that lead you to coding it yourself,

is that or using cloud code? Right, right. Okay. Brilliant.

Yeah, it

is. It's total learning experience. I can see

that. My colleague, who does a lot of my tech stuff, she's

already done stuff like that too, because she.. that's where

her brain goes. Mine, not so much, but I get it. It's that's

that's fantastic. That's

that's what's fun about talking, talking with

Claude chat about it.

Yes,

that you can. You can be coming from the place of,

I you can literally type in the chat, I am not techy,

exactly. This is

what I want to, like, I want to go to the store

and buy this thing, whatever it

is. I love it.

Can we build it together, and you can just be

real.

Yeah, I love it. That's great. Be brave, be

fierce, right? That kind of..

yes. Yes.

So you've mentioned to me that you find

Chat GPT more direct for strategic business questions,

while Claude excels. Sorry, I got distracted easily. Yeah,

while Claude excels at relational communication, that

to me is a, is an interesting distinction. How do you decide

which tool to reach for, and when?

Anytime I am writing content, podcast

episodes, connecting with people like, want to, if it's a

person-to-person interaction, even if it's, you know, me as a

podcast host to a guest, or me as a business owner to my

clients, I reach for Claude, because it's, it's just a little

bit more lyrical, it's a little warmer, developed by people with

humanities degrees, and there's just something that's more

psychologically astute about it in my experience, and then with

Chat GPT, if I'm looking at breaking down business strategy

or business offers or budgeting or looking at putting together a

plan for a client to grow their, like, to scale their business,

or to look to sell their business. Chat GPT tends to be a

little bit better for that, though. I could certainly do it

all in Claude. Like, Claude is 100% capable, but I have enough

of my business history in Chat GBT that I tend to stay over

there for that, and then tend to go over to Claude for the

creative writing.

It's good. I like what I liked your description.

It's more lyrical, and, and, and you're right, like it just feels

like it flows better. It's not as, as choppy in essence. Yeah,

and I'm glad that I've finally got over the hump of starting to

date Claude instead of Chat GPT. So that's good. If a female

founder is listening right now and she's curious about where to

start with AI in her business relationships, not the tech,

just the thinking. What's the very first question she should

ask herself?

I would like.. I usually am looking for the

friction point. So, where are you? Where are you spending too

much time, like time that you feel like you don't have to

spend, or where are you avoiding spending time because you think

it's going to take too much of it when it comes to your

relationships, so if you're telling yourself the story that

putting together a list of people to reach out to and doing

that actual outreach is taking too much time, I would start

there, and, and again, you can just get right in the chat and

say, I really need to reach out to more people. I feel like it's

taking me too much time. These are the kinds of folks that I

want to target, because I think they'd be great customers for

whatever it is that I have to offer. What are your

suggestions? And then ask me questions to help me clarify

what it is that I'm trying to build here, because I don't even

know. What I want yet, like

a simple thing that doesn't require APIs and

connect exactly right. I just did that recently, actually,

when I decided it was time to focus on a certain group of a

certain industry that works well with my, my card sending

service, and that's the real estate industry. So, I've

decided that I need to focus on new realtors to me, because

realtors turn over so, so often, that I want some realtors that

are in California and Arizona, let's say, and so I'm going to

do the outreach search, but I asked Claude to give me a five

LinkedIn message campaign that I could work with them to start to

connect with with new realtors, and it was pretty good, but and

it did ask me some questions, however, the first email that

it, that it suggested felt like it was pitching to me, and it

wasn't a direct pitch, but it was just enough that I was

saying something about what I do in it, and I don't ever want to

do that in my first message, so I went back and I said, hey, you

know, this doesn't work for me, and we, we went through it, you

know, so that the five, the five messages ended up with me

putting input to make it more my own, and to not have the pitch,

and it was so funny, because Claude says, Oh, Janice, you

were so right, I blah blah blah, you know, and you feel like

you're talking to a real person with personality, you know, but

you're not, and you have to be reminded of that sometimes, too.

Right?

Yes. Well, and you know what, you could do, Janice

is like, so here's, here's the next step. No, you don't have to

be techy for it,

okay?

If you have a successful LinkedIn campaign

that's worked for you before, you can give it to Claude chat

and say, I'd like to create a LinkedIn campaign creator skill

for cold traffic. Here is a LinkedIn campaign from message

one to message five, 710, whatever it is that has worked

really well. Use this as the framework to create the skill,

and so what you're doing is creating a tiny brain that will

do it better for you each successive time that you choose

to create your next LinkedIn campaign, because it already has

all those rules that you were going back and fixing one part

of the conversation at a time. Oh,

that's that's really good. So that's always

been my confusion since I started not long ago with

Claude. Is when do I do a project? When do I do a skill?

So, if I make it a skill that

can pull it into any project that you're working

on, you can bring it into any chat that you're working on.

Yeah,

and so does it bring, does it create the

instructions that you have to put in the project?

Yes, and it will even create the skill for you

and load it into Claude for you.

Say that again.

Yeah, so you have your, your LinkedIn email or

LinkedIn message campaign,

yeah,

as your, as your template of, like, this is what

works well.

So, do I put that into the skill as I'm building?

So, you'd put that into the chat.

Oh, yeah, okay.

And the chat would be your partner,

yeah,

building the skill,

okay. And then it gives you the, the, I guess,

URL, or whatever it's called, the address for the skill,

it just gives you the, the markdown language.

Okay, that's what it is.

Style,

yes,

that is the skill. And then it will install it into

Claude for you.

Yes,

and then the next time you open a chat, you could

say, 'Hey, it's Tuesday, I want to start a new LinkedIn

campaign, hat like forward slash the

skill

LinkedIn campaign builder and and you can say

instead of realtors this time I want to do it for this group and

here's some things you need to know about it right the campaign

and it will already have your voice your parameters don't be

salesy

yeah

parse it out this way like it'll already have it

for you, instead of revisiting all those instructions.

Thank you. That's good. Yeah, I'll have to listen

to this again. Alright, that's awesome. So you have said that

the real gift of AI is that it gives you back the time to be

your best and best self and connect more meaningfully with

others, and we've talked about that a little bit today. I want

to give you the space to land on that thought for our listeners

before we wrap up.

Yeah, so I, I have personally experienced daily the

gift that AI has been to my. Business as a service-based

business owner, because when you have a service-based business,

everything is coming through you in some way. Either it was

generated by you, the service is being provided by you, the

frameworks are coming from you, the operational processes are

coming from you, even if you've got a team that's built out with

you, and I think AI is the single greatest tool for giving

a leader back time that they didn't even know they could ever

get back, and I think that's so important, just for self care.

Running a business is no joke, it takes such courage and

resilience and determination that any space that you can give

back to yourself to take a breath, I think, is so valuable.

It can be the pause that you need between giving feedback

that lands versus feedback that breaks things down in your

business, like that makes things harder. It can give you back the

time that you need to think about where you want this

business to go, like strategic thinking time that you may not

allow yourself, and it can also set your business up to run more

effectively and efficiently without you in it all the time,

and that I mean, that's why we all got into business, not only

because we love something, but because we wanted more freedom

and flexibility,

right? Right, and for so long we find it's the

opposite. It's true. Yeah. Okay. Last question before we wrap up.

And this is just a general question. I, my favorite word is

curiosity, and I'd like to ask you this, my curiosity question?

I didn't ask you last time. Two parts to it. First part is, do

you think that curiosity is innate or learned? And part two

is, what are you most curious about these days?

So, I think it is innate, but it's like a muscle,

you got to flex it or it gets flabby, perfect, I I am a very

curious person, and what I'm most curious about these days, I

mean, so many things, always, always about AI, because I am,

I'm like, I am in a passionate pursuit of grabbing my time

back, I just feel acutely aware of how much time any of us gets

on this planet, and if I can grab back more of it for fun and

people that I love, I'm all about it. So I'm extremely

curious about AI.

Perfect, and that's the fun about that

question, because it's there's no right or wrong answer, right?

I mean, but I don't know if you, being from California, you

probably know who Brian Grazer is. Okay, and Brian Grazer was

one of the.. his book.. what's it called.. A Curious Mind..

it's called his.. one of his books that was the impetus that

started me on my podcast journey, actually many years

ago, because I loved that book, and how he used to interview

people back before he was famous, and mostly when he was

his grandmother had instilled this curiosity in him to ask

questions, and so forth, and it kind of led to all these

interesting interviews that he had with people along the way,

and he, he talks of those interviews in this book, and,

and I just love that question, because I just resonated so much

with what he had to say. In fact, it's probably time to read

that book again. Yeah,

I'll consider that an invitation for myself.

There you go. Yeah, and, and last thing before

we go, Where can people find you? And I'll put it in your

show notes

on LinkedIn at Free Range Thinking, that's my

business name. Oh,

right, I never even mentioned the name of your

business, Free Range Thinking, Range

Thinking, and you can, you can also find, if

you're a founder who wants to be, you know, using AI more, you

can find us at the AI for Founders community on LinkedIn.

Yeah,

tell me about that. Because is it a group that

you have?

Yes,

it's a group. Okay,

it's a private group. So, and, and not because

it's anything super fancy, it's just I just wanted to carve it

out from a public group that everybody can join. I wanted

people to want.. well, I would love

an invite, if possible, because I would love

to get into your group and talk and see if I can keep up with

your talk on AI. I'm

sure you can. I just, I wanted a safe space for

founders to be able to, like, some people have AI shame right

now, and I just wanted people to have a safe space to be able to

talk about, like, AI, what the use cases are, what they're

excited about, what they're curious about, what they're

struggling with, and so, yeah, that's a place to be able to do

that, and to learn.

Yeah, always want to be learning, so that's great.

Appreciate that. Thank you so much for being here again. And I

think each time we talk to someone, we learn something new,

and so. Something more to bond a relationship, and I feel like

I've done that with you. So, thank you so much for your time.

Same, Janice. Thanks for having me.

You're very welcome. And if you like what

you hear or see, listeners, please let us know. We always

appreciate it if you do, and reach out to Dawn and find out

more about how she can help you as well with your AI journey,

so.