More Than a Book: How Clarity Creates Connection and Impact | RR358

Deb Hello, everyone. Today I'm joined by

Deborah Kievan, publisher, author and founder of Highlander

press. Deborah has spent her life surrounded by books, but

more importantly, helping others find their voice and turn their

ideas into something meaningful and lasting. In this

conversation, I want to explore with Deborah what really holds

people back from writing a book, Why clarity matters more than we

think, and how a book can become one of the most powerful tools

for building relationships in business. So welcome to the

show, Deborah.

Oh, Janice, I've been looking forward to our

conversation. Thank you

for having me. Oh, really. Oh, thank you. I

feel like I want to call you Deborah, but I see Debbie in

some of your things. So do I have to be in a special group to

call you Debbie?

Or dear friends, you can call me, but do you

prefer that?

Or does it matter?

I go by Deborah or Debbie just not

Deb Oh, yeah, okay, okay, that's like me.

Don't ever call me Janet, because that's not my name, and

when someone calls me Janet, it's like they haven't listened.

Yeah, Jan or Janice, but not Janet, please. Anyway. So okay,

I want to dig right into I go back, because I know you've

loved books since you were four years old. Do you remember when

you first realized that books could actually shape a life or a

career.

Oh, my goodness, that was a very late in life

landing, I would say, is the word I would use, because I I

did. I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I

was very much the outlier. I was a quiet kid by necessity. I had

my younger brother was born with pretty significant health

issues, and my mother wanted the house to be quiet, and I was a

pretty rambunctious tomboy kid with a lot of energy, and I just

channeled it into into reading and but it never occurred to me

that I could make a living and have a life that involved books.

And I say I have the greatest, and I can't even call it a job.

I have the greatest day to day lived experience, because I get

to play with books all day long.

Isn't that fantastic when you can do what

you love and get paid? Fantastic. That's great. You

often say that people don't struggle with writing. They

struggle with knowing what they want to say. What do you mean by

that? Well, so

it's interesting. I've had a lot of people say I'm

not a writer.

I say that. I say I'm a talker, not a writer,

yeah?

And I'm going to give you a great big permission

slip chance. Okay, you have a recording device on your phone,

yeah? Speak your story, speak your wisdom, because a lot of

people feel stuck when it comes to putting pen to paper or or

fingers to keyboard, and Brene Brown calls those art scars. We

learned at some point in our lives that our creation wasn't

perfect, and it's slowed us down, and it in many cases,

stopped us all together. Writing is one of the skills that is the

easiest, because it's just simply the act of doing it. And

with tools today, you can record and have it transcribed, and

then you have a rough draft. And with a rough draft you can

create magic.

Oh, I love that. Yeah, it is. It's true that,

that the with the the tools we have today, there's so much it

makes it so much faster and easier, is totally true. Okay,

thinking about that, okay, um, what are some of the common ways

that you see people get stuck when they're trying to write a

book.

Oh, I'll say analysis paralysis. And I'm a

great example of this. I wrote my first novel, and the chapter

one is chef's kiss. It's fantastic. And I kept revising

it, kept revising it, kept revising it. And I think we

often get into that phase where we have the fraud factor or the

little gremlin on our shoulders telling us, you know, it's all

been said before, and who's going to read this, and why are

you spending this time and energy to to do all of this? And

that's just fear. It's our egos trying to keep us safe. But the

truth of it is, is we each have our lived experience that is

unique to us only, and when we share our stories, we're

actually lighting a lantern and showing other. People the way

that they may not have considered before, and it gives

others that permission to be themselves and

share their stories. So let's just, I'm just

going to interject myself here from my questions and and ask

you so I know you've written a book called, I love the name of

your book, shelf life. I love that shelf life, a field guide

to long term author success. So that book is helping would be

authors on their journey of writing, I'm assuming. And the

things actually, it's right, it's the things to do after

they've written the book, yeah, after they've published,

actually, right? Okay, and we'll come back to that, sure. But do

you mostly so your company, Highlander press, do you publish

mostly nonfiction books, or a bit of fiction and nonfiction

or, like business books? What is is there a pattern to what you

publish?

What your specialty is? Yeah, in the

beginning we we publish primarily non fiction, typically

in this self help, slash, memoir, business book, yes,

thought leader, yes, even a lead, even lead gen books,

right? Okay, yeah. But over time, because I have foot in

both fiction and nonfiction worlds. We actually had our

largest publishing class of fiction start two years ago. And

so right now we're a 5050 Okay, so it's about, yeah, I would say

5050 right now. And I love having the breadth, because our

authors get to know each other, and so fiction writers are

getting to learn from non fiction writers, and vice versa.

So you do? You call it the author momentum

circle. Is that your sort of group program?

Yeah. So that's after. So we have two programs.

One is called the ink program, and that's our publishing

arm, right, which I was going to ask you about as

well after, okay, yeah. So let's

talk about the author momentum circle. That's

for authors who've published a book, okay, had a launch

successful or not? And and we can also, also talk about what

makes a successful launch, and they don't know what to do next,

yeah, and so they don't do anything. I call it ghosting

their books, yes. So for that, that circle is intended for

fiction and nonfiction authors, support, support and and we look

at what's working. What do they what are their goals? Just for

quarter, like by quarter, what are your goals?

Well, and so that's interesting, because I do

know a woman here in British Columbia who's had a successful

business for many years helping authors write their books. But

she seems to, I think she's had group programs too. But one of

the things I remember, I didn't take her program, but I know

some people who have and and one of the things in the promo, and

everything that I've seen is, and in other people's actually,

that I've noticed is that writing the book is like, just

the beginning. It's like, right? It's, how do you promote it.

What are you doing to do that? What do you want it to do? Is it

just a it's like a business card, or is it you know more

than that? So there's it's important to know what you want,

but it's also important to know how to do all of this stuff, how

to get it to the that pretend. I call it the pretend bestseller

list, because it's like getting everybody to vote for you. And,

you know, it's just, right, yeah, right, but, but it does

work, and it helps people with their, what, their prowess,

ability, yeah, visibility, but also their feelings about, you

know, having been successful in doing what they're doing, of

course. So, okay, so, so lack of clarity can affect the book, but

it can also affect how someone shows up in their business or

communicates with others. So all of that, like the after piece,

it's like some people I've even noticed won't even mention their

book, you know. So can you talk about

some of that? Yeah, can we back up one? Yes,

absolutely. You hit on a really important point. And then I'll

come back and certainly answer your question. Writing is the

first step of five. Okay, so there's the writing which most

people really focus on, time, talent, energy. They focus on

that writing, which is important because you can't do the second

step if you haven't done the first and the second step is

editing. And editing, I say, is like giving Michelangelo a piece

of raw marble. The manuscript, the rough draft is that marble.

And then you. Helped it into something worth publishing. Then

the third step is actually the publishing part. The fourth step

is the launch part. And then the fifth step is the long tail of

post marketing. Post launch marketing.

Sorry, my husband called just when I was thinking

of what you were saying and trying to stop the phone from

ringing. And, okay, so what was the second step? That's where I

got editing. Oh, right, okay, so, and that's a whole story in

itself for me, because I I know there's when I think of editing.

I think of getting the red pen out and doing the grammar check

and so on, but that's not what editing. That's one part of

editing. I understand, but there's other parts to editing

and and so is, it is like, do you edit people's books, or do

you have an absolutely, we do it. No, but you do. You. Are you

an editor?

I do the developmental editing.

Okay, that is because that's

the part that, yeah, yeah. So developmental

editing, if you think about, how does the story hang together?

Yes. How does it work in totality, where is the arc of

the story? And there's arcs and nonfiction as well as fiction,

and then there's a total book arc. And how can we make it

stronger? So it's really the scaffolding and the way that the

book works.

Oh, I like that analogy. That's great. Yes,

yeah.

And then there's the copy editing, which is the

traditional red pen. It's also called line editing, which is

basically a line by line, making sure that the strong word

choices, and we don't have the word Fairy and a bunch of other

things. And then the last major part of editing happens after

the book is laid out, and that's called proofreading, and that's

somebody who's got eagle eyes. And I have the most incredible

proofreader. She is extraordinary at she, I would

you never would want me to

proofread your book. Okay,

so those are the three main is

more about what the the Oh, you put the word in

the wrong place, or you you missed a word here, or you that

it's the word here. It could be even things

stylistic, like one that happens very often when a book is laid

out is you might have straight quote marks, and sometimes curly

quote marks, Oh, wow. And so going back and like, making sure

that they're all They're all the same. And the reason is, even

though readers might not catch it consciously, their

subconscious is catching it, and so all of those little things.

Here's one thing, that editing is not it is not about

perfection.

Oh, okay,

it's about excellence. And there's a big

difference.

Oh, that's cool. It's not about okay, what's the

difference?

So I'll share perfection, my version of what I

mean by perfection. So you know the carpets, the Persian carpets

that are hundreds of 1000s of dollars, the people who who make

those are experts at carving or creating those, weaving those,

yeah, they actually introduce an error into every single one,

because their belief that only God, the universe, source is

perfect. And almost every book that you read you you can find a

mistake.

Okay, interesting.

So we're not going for a lot of mistakes, but

there, there may be one in there, yeah, yeah, and I'm okay

with that. I had to get okay with that, because I am a

recovering perfectionist.

Well, I think I am too in some ways, and and I

was playing around with recording a the intro to this

ahead of time, and because I don't like to read a big, long

thing when someone's sitting there. But that's why I just

read a short one, because I did this thing and I couldn't get

over this one word. It kept it. I'll tell you what the word was.

The word was irreverent, and I couldn't say it and because it

was reading from your thing, and so I just let it go because it

is, that's the way it was, you know. But I don't know if I'm

going to use that anyway. So this is one of those things. But

anyway, alright, so do you remember my question?

Yes, it was about clarity. Yes. So I think clarity

comes in a number of ways. When someone writes a book, I think,

number one, they get clear about their value, okay? And they get

clear about their lived experience. Because whether

they're writing a book, business book, or a non fiction book,

there's there's their story is in there, because they have. A

different view. And very often I'll hear that not only are they

clearer, they have more confidence, because they're

like, Wow, I did do that. And seeing it in black and white,

and seeing that they stuck with it and wrote a book, is pretty

empowering. Yeah. So I think that that helps them, as an

author, be clear with who's their ideal client, because

their ideal client is also then their ideal reader, right? And

when they're clear about that, it's easier to communicate, and

then it's easier for the ideal client to self select.

Yeah, I am. I just interviewed a woman out of

Australia, and she is, she talks about storytelling, and how

using storytelling in your speeches or in your work that

you do as it makes such a difference. And I was just

thinking that even when I'm writing like a newsletter, if I

can add a story in there to go with what I'm talking about, it

does make it better. People respond to it in a way that they

don't, if you just give them the facts right. But when, if I were

doing that in a in a book, I I guess sometimes I might think,

Oh, that's too personal. They don't need to know that. Or

maybe that's too long a story, or whatever. So I suppose, do

people, do you find that you have to encourage people to add

a story here and add a story there, or you get some of those

that they can't stop, and then it's too many Yes, 100% both

ways, yeah. And what I've also found is, and I

again, I'll share a story. Sure, we had an author who came to me

and she had a book, and we offered her a publishing

contract, and she turned in her final manuscript. It was exactly

100 pages, and she was very proud of that fact, and Chapter

Two was 50 of those pages. Oh, wow, it was the core of her

story. And so I had a conversation with her, and I

said, look, the rest of the 50 pages are great, but I think

that's a different book that you can write it a different time.

Your story right now is this chapter two. Oh, wow. And let's

blow it out. And it was, it was, it was the book. Title of the

book is called The Gift of loss. And it was a story of how she

completely transformed her life after her husband was very

suddenly and dramatically killed in a car accident when she had

three very young children and she was unhealthy and and I

mean, just completely flipped her story, but digging back

through that was very painful. Yeah. And so I also have the

unique skill that I can look at a story, or hear a story and

say, there's something that you're not saying, and it's

right here. And let's blow this out a little bit. And what

happens when that happens, when people are skimming over the

tough stuff, that's the juicy stuff, and you hit on a very

important point, which is it's too personal. And so I always

say there's personal and then there's private, and they're two

very different things. And so what may be private to me may be

personal to you, it could be very different. So that's an

individual choice, and you get to decide what's private and

what you're willing

to share, right? But so, so this, this woman,

though, wrote the 50 pages about that, that episode in her life,

and yet, she didn't see that. That was the story at first.

Yeah, she

definitely didn't, yeah, and she was

resistant initially,

and yet, she'd written 50 pages

about it, right, right, but it was very surfacey,

okay, okay,

so, I mean, we, I think it ended up being about

170 pages once we were all done. And she said to me afterwards, I

really didn't want to do this, yeah, but it was the most

beneficial thing I've done for myself, because it enabled me to

a feel all the feelings again, and realize how far I'd come,

how much more healing I was, I have this process was, and then

I can appreciate my resilience. I can appreciate how I showed it

for my children. I can appreciate the choices I've

made.

So this next question that I was going to ask

you, I think you've already answered some of it, but I want

to give you a chance. Answer this kind of makes okay. You.

I've read somewhere that you believe in magic, manifestation

and intuition. How have those played a role in the way you

guide authors or even your own guide your own journey? And I

think you just answered that question. Didn't you so

beautifully with that example? Is there another one in the in

there?

I I do believe in magic, and I it's funny I was as

a kid, very intuitive, and I pushed it away because it didn't

fit how I was growing up and the structure of our family. And

once I leaned into it, it was almost like Dorothy and the

magic red slippers, right? I had this power that I was like,

whoa. And so what I've discovered about myself is I'm

an excellent listener, and I can really hear. My ears will burn

actually, when someone's saying something that I'm like, we need

to go back and dig into that. And so like when we do VIP

sessions, and I'm helping somebody define the scaffolding

before they've written a word, I re record those sessions,

because sometimes I don't even know what I'm saying. It just

flows through me because I'm so connected. I love it. Yeah, I

know that I think is magic.

Well, I do too, because I feel that I am

intuitive. And when I'm talking to people, whether it's on a

microphone or whether it's just having a conversation with

someone, I tend to be able to dig deeper than one might

normally think. I always have this, this converse, this joke

that, and I've said this before on air as well, that, you know,

my husband go play golf with somebody that he's never met

before, and come back and tell me that he met this really nice

couple from Australia. And I'll say, Oh, where are they from? In

Australia? How now ask a million questions. He says, Janice, I

was just playing golf with them, but you were with four with four

hours. You were with them, right, right? And yet, I can ask

some, I can talk to someone in the grocery store for five

minutes and find out more about them than he could in five in

four hours. So it's just, I it's just an it's, I think it's, it's

a gift, I think, to be able to and to know, I think, I guess,

the bigger gift is to be able to know when to dig in and when

not to right. Yes, yeah, 100% really,

listening to our guts or that intuition that comes because if

we're, if we're attuned to it, yes, it's there, available all

the time, right?

And I'm just thinking that, you know, we all

talk about knowing who our audience is and who we attract

in terms of the work that we do and, and I think with with

finding a publisher for your book. So you've decided you want

to write a book, but maybe that's as much as far as you've

gotten, and now you're shopping for someone to help you. So what

would you say they're going to see or read between the lines

when they look at at your website and your LinkedIn

profile and whatever, and know whether that's you're the right

person for them, and vice versa, because once you've had the

conversation,

I so as a publisher, we, we're looking for

someone who has at least a rough draft. Okay, so they've got a

rough draft, they'll send it to us, some of it, it'll be an

excerpt, and we 100% of the time give feedback on that excerpt. I

do it for two reasons. One is, I want them to see how we would be

as an editor and and how our how our relationship to their work.

I also do it and provide the feedback on a zoom call, because

I want to see how they receive the feedback. Because for me, I

could publish 345, 100 books a year. But for me, being aligned

energetically means that we can go farther faster together, and

so I would much rather limit the number of books we're publishing

every year to make sure that they're the books that are best

aligned with for both sides.

That makes so much sense. All right, I'm going

to come back to something you alluded to earlier, that your

ink framework. Can you walk us through how I think it's

intention, navigation and knowledge support both the

writing process and the person behind it?

Yeah, thank you for asking our ink program is

something that I created. Gosh, I five years ago now. Oh my

gosh, five years ago, and it was big came from this understanding

that a lot of. Emphasis is placed on the writing part of

the process, and so many people don't understand what happens

once the writing is done. And so it was created because I kept

having the same conversations over and over, and I realized a

authors needs community so they can support each other and

create this lovely, wonderful, supportive and encouraging

community. And it was everyone's hearing the same thing. So these

classes were initially taught Live, which limited the number

of classes I could hold a year. They were six months, and it

happened alongside the editing and publishing process, so

people who we offer a contract to would go into a cohort. That

cohort has now expanded to be a year long program where the

classes are pre recorded, and then we still have live sessions

where they get to build the community and ask questions. And

so it enables people to come in all year long and pick up where

they're starting. And honestly, people love it because they they

understand, they understand what's happening while it's

happening, and they understand the theory behind it. It's not

to be I want them to become publishers, but I want them to

understand, when we're talking about their cover, why I'm going

to be very particular about certain things, depending upon

who their audiences are.

Yeah, the little things that I don't even think

about, yeah, that's so true. And first impressions are the cover.

Is the cover? Yeah, in that instance, okay, how does writing

a book change the way someone sees themselves and their voice?

I'm sure you touched on this.

Yeah, we've touched on this a little bit.

And the girl that, the woman that, yeah,

yeah.

But I even think I've seen it time and time

again, and we've published, thus far, since officially launching

as Highlander press, we've published 76 books. So in six

years, it's pretty good. A lot. I've seen it consistently that

people like, like, Stand a little taller, they feel more

confident, they they show up differently. And if you think

about if you meet an author, right? You kind of have this, I

have this feeling when I meet an author, it's like they've done

something really cool. Books are still important in our society.

No, I love

books, and I don't read enough.

There's never enough time to read.

Well, can we talk about that a little bit? Yes, I

did something that I haven't done for a very long time I

don't read fiction. I never have time. So if I'm my sort of, my

nighttime routine when I get into bed is to do a crossword

puzzle, because I love doing crossword puzzles, and maybe

just read some junk food, reading like my People Magazine,

because I'm a pop culture nerd, and I love Jeopardy, so those

always help with Jeopardy, sure, anyway, um, but I noticed new

books that come out and books that are made into movies, and

who's who's optioned this book now and so on. And we're going

away for a week, and I thought maybe I'll get a book and take a

book away with me, because I'll have time to read. What shall I

get right? And I wanted a real book, like, I didn't want to do

it on my Kindle or anything. I just, I can't do that. I have to

have the book. So I, I see on Instagram these people that say,

Oh, here's my five top books so far this year. Like they've read

35 books, and it's only the end of March, and I'm like, you

know, anyway, so I settled on one. And my sister reads, And so

I talked to her about it as well, and she says, Well, I

think you'd like this book. And I said, I said, I, you know, I'm

so nervous about buying a book, because if I don't like it in

the first five pages, I'm doomed, right? But what's going

to anyway? Long story short, I settled on the big, the big book

of the the time, and that is the correspondent.

Oh, yes, I have not read that yet, okay, but it

is on my to read, to read pile, which is a teetering pile, I'm

sure, because you're a reader. But anyway, I

settled on that book, and I actually started reading it last

night, and I'm already intrigued, so that's a good

sign. And I think it's funny because I who, where did I read

this? Oh, oh, I don't remember, but I I noticed somewhere

somebody said, so. Fonda has optioned this book. It's in,

right and but it wasn't on Oprah's book list, and it wasn't

on Reese Witherspoon's book list, but it was Katie Couric.

And then I started to see, okay, so it's definitely my generation

that needs to read it, because the woman in the book is 72 or

73 so that's, that's one thing. So I thought, Okay, I think I'll

probably like it. But it was a lot to think about, because when

you don't read very often, you don't want to waste your time on

something, right, right? So I want to know what you're

reading.

Oh, gosh, right now I am finishing up Kate. I

love historical fiction. That's I write in fiction, and that's

what I love reading. I'm finishing up Kate Quinn's the

Brier Club, which is the story of, it's kind of told from the

story of a perspective of the house, the Briarwood House in

Washington, DC, in the era of McCarthy, and it's full of women

who are in different careers. One works for the National

Archives, one is an artist, and someone else works for a

senator. So they all have these different jobs, and it's the

story of these women who have come from disparate backgrounds

and how they get tangled up in the red politics. Yeah, scare,

yeah. And it's, it's quite good. I like, I like Kate Quinn, she

wrote the rose code. If I were to give you a recommendation for

a book that I just thought was I'll give you two. One is an

older book called The Dutch house by Anne Patchett. Oh, see

Anne patches mentioned in this book?

Ooh, yes, yeah, the Dutch house is one of the

most unique stories I've ever read, and it's told so the

premise is a man buys a house for his family that this Dutch

colonial that's completely furnished down to the

toothbrushes and hair brushes of the previous residents, they

just move in lock, stock and barrel. That's creepy, yeah, so

it's but it's such a good book, and then one that I read last

year that is also being made into a film is called remarkably

bright creatures.

Oh, I don't think I've heard of that one.

Shelby Van Pelt, it's her first novel, and it is

luminous.

Oh, okay, I'll check those both out. Thank you.

Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah. I mean, I hope this is a good sign

that I'm getting back into reading because, you know, it

just doesn't happen. So I listen to a lot of podcasts, but I

don't read a lot. So, yeah, and I love books, though. I mean,

I've always got books beside my bed. I just never get to them,

right? And it's funny, I have a six and a half year old

granddaughter, and she's in grade one, and she's, she's

struggling a little bit with reading. And I go, she said, I

can't read, grandma. And I said, Oh, you can. I've seen you read.

You've read words to me in a little book. I said, if you

want, you know, I can help you. Sometime, I did teach Grade One

at some point in my life. I said, I I could help you. You

know, we could practice together. No, she said, I'm not

interested. Yeah, so we'll come back around to that one.

Yeah, for sure, we did with my son, who

struggled, was we did audio books and we did them. Yes, she

was from school, and he's an auditory learner, and it was

incredible. The shift is still a lifelong reader now, but, yeah,

but you've got to hit, hit them where they are, and that's

right, hook them.

Yeah, I know. I know exactly. So it's just so

funny. Anyway. Okay, last question around the books for

someone listening who has a story or an idea but hasn't

started, what's their first step

making the decision to do it and then

carving out regular writing time. And it doesn't have to be

a huge amount of time, but what does happen? And I say this to

everyone who who asked me this question, put on your calendar

when you're feeling most creative. For most people, it's

right when they wake up, yeah, before they've done anything

else, maybe they brew a cup of coffee. Sit down. 30 minutes

does not have to be long,

and French press coffee.

Yes, of course, French press coffee.

I don't even drink coffee, so it doesn't

even, I don't even relate, but I love that French press anyway.

Yeah, it's so funny. But yeah, just and then

the thing is, is after that go for a walk or exercise, because

what happens is the endorphins that get released after you

exercise reinforces your desire to be at your writing desk.

Ooh. Smart woman. Smart woman. So. When you're not

reading or helping others write their books. I know you've done

one of the trails in or the Camino de Santiago trail in

Spain, that must have been amazing.

Yes, it really was transformative. I did it

over four trips. Okay, so I broke it into into sections, and

it was each each leg of that trip. I didn't bring the same

person home with me in terms of the shedding and the

contemplative time, and at the first the first leg that I did I

had been I had come out of a marriage where I had been

abused. My kids were both heading off to college. It was a

real time of reflection. What stories? What can I learn from

this experience, how can I heal? And I came back from that trip

thinking I have too much stuff. I'm holding on to emotional

baggage. I'm holding on to physical things. And it was

really the start of a completely transformative experience in my

life. It was also the first time that the only decision I had to

make every day was what I'm having for lunch.

That was it. So when you went on the

particularly the first leg, were you with other people? But when

you walked, you, is it silence? Is it in silence?

Sometimes it's in silence. I went with a small

group of other women with a very dear friend of mine who's out of

the UK, and so she kind of pulled us all together, and I

slept in a room with a woman I had never met before. You get to

know people very much on a different level. Yeah, there's

no artifice. There's no pretense. Some days it was

quiet, I will say, I never once put my ear buds in. I listen to

nature and the sound of birds, and you're walking through rural

Spain and places that you would otherwise never see, right, you

know, and it was just a gift. So have

you written a book about this yet?

I have not. I've written some essays, and I've

definitely done some reflective work, but I have not written a

book about this yet, and I really ought to, because what it

also did was it brought me back to my intuition in a big way.

And one of the coolest things that came out of that eight,

eight years was healing, yes, and getting clear that I was

very happy not being married. I was very happy on my own, and I

also knew that somebody that had already been in my life was

going to come back. I just didn't know who or when. Has

that happened? It has, and I am remarried very happily to

someone you knew in high school, somebody I met when I was 16

years old.

God, that story. It's, I hear that story so

often.

Yeah, are you the cool one of the coolest part, I

started having dream i We hadn't seen each other in 30 so we had

been together, broken up, been together, were engaged, broke

up.

Oh, really. Okay, so 31

years had gone by. Not a peep, no word,

nothing. I started having these really random dreams about him,

like really vivid and I was talking to a friend of mine, and

she said, What's What do you think that is? I'm like, I

really don't know. I don't know what it is. And I She's like,

let's do a meditation together. Does a meditation with me. I

come out and I say, I'm supposed to write him a letter. I had no

idea where he was living. I had no idea his life situation, so I

just wrote a letter of gratitude, four pages of what a

great boyfriend he had been, how much I loved his family. His

family was my family and and just gratitude. And you know,

I'm just reaching out across time and space, just to say that

I'm I wanted to let you know how much I'm grateful for you. He

had been meditating on me when I like, four o'clock in the

morning, when, I guess these dreams were happening. I don't

even know, yeah, but he got my letter, and he said it was like

an out of body.

Wait, how did you find him?

I So, you know, he's not on social media at all,

and never has been. And you know, over time, I occasionally

Google, yeah, not. Never found him. Never found him. And so I

googled him that day. I remember his. June 15, 2021, and I found

him. I found his address. I didn't know if he was still

living there, but I'm like, I'm gonna write a letter and I'm

gonna send it okay. And if it, if it's meant to do something,

it will. If it doesn't, it won't.

Yeah, and he phoned you,

or whatever. We started writing letters back and

forth for about six weeks, and it was just getting to

rediscover who we were now. As, you know, adult growers, yeah,

people, yeah. And then he came, he came to from New Jersey to

where I live in Baltimore, just for a weekend. Had it set up in

a different room, like, yeah, friends, you know, yeah, and we

have been together ever since,

beautiful story, yeah, so

magic can happen and

but your intuition like, boom, wow,

that's amazing, yeah. Anyway, just, I love that story. Thank

you for sharing that. I love it. Okay, so I think it's time to

wrap up, and I could talk to you for a long time because I'm

fascinated, but what a thoughtful and inspiring

conversation. I love your idea of how you talked about writing

the book and everything else that goes along with it. It's

not a task to complete, but it's a way to create connection,

clarity and impact. So thanks for sharing your insights and

for the work you do in helping others bring their stories to

life. And how can somebody find you who listens to this podcast?

Um, the best way to find me is on sub stack I

have. I have a sub stack called story, tell her and right, okay,

and it is. It's full of stories. It's full of stories about

writing, full of stories about other authors. It's just full of

stories that can help people at any stage, whether they're

thinking about writing a book, they've published a book and

they're not sure what to do. It's just full of stories, and

I've kept it free of charge that people subscribe, but free of

charge, and I'm having so much fun sharing stories on there

that I Well, that's good. I haven't made too

much. I haven't I ventured over there a little bit, but not a

lot. So I will go over and check that out. They can also find

you, I'm sure, at Highland press, Highlander press,

Highlander press books, and I'll put that in the show notes as

well. And of course, on LinkedIn, I'm

absolutely okay.

Well, thank you again. And to to my audience,

remember, this is fascinating. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I

did. And we'll explore the opportunity to or the

possibility of writing a book yourself, if you haven't

already, or another one, and check Deborah out at Highlander

press. So remember to stay connected and be remembered.

Thanks, Deborah. Thank you.