How Do You Build a Business Entirely on Conversations?

Janice Porter 00:00:03

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of

Relationships Rule. Well, a few weeks ago, I was the guest on

Kevin Thompson's show Million Dollar Relationships. Today, I

get to turn the tables, and I've been looking forward to it for a

while. Kevin is the founder of the Impact and Legacy

Collective, and he calls himself a conduit of trust. He makes

high-trust introductions between entrepreneurs, and his business

runs entirely on conversations. No big ad budget, no pushy

funnels, just people talking to people. I'll be honest; I have a

personal reason for being curious about this one because,

of course, relationships are the best thing in the world. If

you've ever wished your business could grow through genuine

connection rather than chasing, you'll want to hear how Kevin

does it. So, welcome to the show, Kevin.

Janice, thank you. I I am honored to be here,

and I've been looking forward to this.

Oh well, it's my pleasure. Before we begin my

questions, I wanted to share with something something that

happened the other day. I listened to a lot of podcasts,

and I listened to a podcast, high level ones. You know the

the the the celebrities. I like to sometimes listen to those.

And there's a woman that runs a podcast. Her name is Emma Grede.

I don't know if you're familiar with Emma Greed. Okay, Emma runs

two major fashion companies: Skims and Good America. Skims'

partner is Kim Kardashian, and Good America is Khloe

Kardashian. So she took ideas to both of those sisters, and

became the CEO of both those companies. She's amazing. She's

she's absolutely amazing. Anyway, she was interviewing

Ari. Oh God, I just forgot his last name. Ari Emanuel. Are you

familiar with him?

Not at all. No. Okay.

Well, Ari Emanuel is one of three brothers who are

very famous. His one brother, Rahm Emanuel, was the right-hand

guy to Obama, and he also worked with Clinton in the White House.

And I think he's going to run for president of the United

States. That's the very interesting guy. The other one's

a very famous high-level surgeon, and Ari, who's the

youngest, is an entrepreneur and a businessman, and he just wrote

a new book. And he started a. He was. Have you ever heard of a

show that was on years ago called Entourage?

Oh yes. Okay. Yes. The

model Ari Gold, the the protagonist in that show

is based on Ari.

Okay, so he

was the Wheeler dealer celebrity agent, and

anyway, built a huge business, and then of course, I think sold

it, and then merged with another company. Blah blah blah. Anyway,

he's huge. First Hollywood agency that went public, and all

of that good stuff.

Okay, but

what they were talking about was his new book,

and how he operates made me think of you right away because

he operates based on conversations. He operates on,

you know, people want to meet him all the time, but when he

wants to meet somebody or decides that something's going

to happen. He he makes it happen just through conversation

because he and so I thought of you right away because I thought

you must. I wonder. I wonder if you do this. Okay, so so I want

you to check them out. Number one and number two. I was

thinking. So do you? This isn't even on my list of questions,

but do you meet the person first and then figure out a way to

work together if it feels right, or does it always start with a

project that then the decision is made?

Oh, that's interesting. So there, there,

there is no one way that it always happens.

Sure,

I will tell you probably like you've

experienced, Janice, because I host a podcast as you do. I get

connected with a lot of entrepreneurs just because I

host a podcast and stuff, and and so like a perfect example

this morning, Brianna from a company called Interview Valet.

So, so Interview Valet they serve clients who are mostly

entrepreneurs who want to get on podcasts, and they charge for

that service. They charge

that the people looking to be guests.

That's right. They charge the people who are

looking to be guests. Yes, and and I have had a working

relationship with Brianna for about three years now, and in

those three years, she has sent me some absolutely amazing

guests for the podcast, and so every time I do. Get an email

from her, which is probably one or one to three times a month. I

don't know what's in there, but it always feels like Christmas

time because I know there's going to be something good in

there. And so this morning she had two people that she wanted

to tell me about, and they're like really you know good at

like they they already have paperwork put together, they

have one pages put together. They got information on these

people, and and plus she just tells me a little bit about each

one of them. And both of them this morning, I told her when I

replied, I said, you know, and it is so interesting because I

couldn't help but notice the timing of this. Just yesterday,

I was talking with a friend of mine who runs a very large

company who's dealing with the very thing that this one guy

you're telling about is. That's his expertise, and the other

gentleman is tied in with about 40 nonprofit organizations. And

I also am good friends with a gentleman who owns a company

that they serve nonprofits, and so and so I even told Brianna I

was like, you know, especially on the on the guy with the

nonprofits, I don't know this for sure yet, but it feels like

there might be a valuable introduction to be made there,

and and you know, and and right now I'm just totally going off a

feeling, but like this kind of stuff, it happens all the time,

and so I notice for it, and and like you know, as I get to know

the person, and like you know, so Brianna will set up, they'll

schedule a time on my calendar. I'll have a conversation with

them. Then we'll probably end up doing a podcast interview, and

through those conversations, I'll just get to know them, and

if it does make sense to make an introduction, then I'll do that,

you know. And so, and but not all guests come to me that way,

where I'm feeling that already. You know, some of them are just

like, well, I just like, yeah, I'd like to talk and get to know

you better and find out more about who you are and all that

kind of stuff. So,

well, you know that that's how we met through

it is an interview valet, so we're giving them a big plug on

this podcast because we both love what what they're doing and

and how well they do it. So that's that's that's cool. So so

it sounds as though it's more likely that you'll meet people

and then ideas will happen and connections will come to mind.

That is usually how it happens. Yeah, as opposed

to

wanting to do a project yourself and then

looking for the people to join you.

Oh yeah, I don't. I don't ever do that.

Okay.

Okay. So you asked me. Wait. Yeah. Okay. I

should ask you this question. This was going to be my first

question, but I I really had to share that thing about

okay

Ari. So when someone asks you what you do,

how do you explain a business that's built on conversations?

I say that I serve as that conduit of trust

for the right entrepreneurs, and I just make the right

introductions that put them in the right conversations with the

right people for the right reasons. That's what I

do. Okay, okay. It seems so simple, but it's

very special.

It it took years to get to that place of being

that simple. Yeah,

no, I get it for sure. I mean, there's a lot of a

lot to unpack there. So you asked me who changed the course

of my business, and now I get to ask you beyond the names that

you would usually mention. Who's someone that made a difference

for you that people might not know about?

Oh my goodness! Well, I'll tell you. You know

Joe Polish years ago. I met Joe Polish all the way back in 1995.

Joe Polish.

Joe Polish. Yes. So and at the time, I owned a

carpet cleaning and water damage restoration business. I had been

in a business been in business for a little over a year at that

point, I had worked the previous seven years as a commercial

fisherman on Alaska's Bering Sea in order to save money to start

that business. Oh

wow! And

I had blown through about $300,000 in the

first year, and I still just didn't even know what I didn't

know about running a business, and I saw an article from him in

a trade publication for the industry. So I I was like, wow,

this really resonates. And he was offering this free

information, this free report. So I requested that, and

ultimately invested in getting his help. And with his help,

over the next few years, we completely transformed that

business into a buy referral only company, and to this day,

you know, years later, you know, Joe he started a mastermind

group called the Genius Network. He started that group in 2007,

and and I joined that group in 2008, and and at the. First time

I ever went to a meeting, there was probably maybe 35 people in

that group and stuff. Now that group is I don't know how many

people I'm not in it now, but I would venture to say there's

well over 300 people in that group now. It has really, really

grown, and it's become affectionately known as the 25K

group over the years because that's what the investment used

to be to be in the group. I believe now it's 35,000 to be in

the group. And but Joe has just been this this guy who has made

such an impact. He too is just an amazing world-class connector

of people, and so he was a role model for sure in in how to do

that and stuff, and and just being that kind of a guy, you

know, just being that guy who is that connector, who is that

conduit of trust, man. Nothing gives me more joy and

satisfaction than being that guy who brings the right people

together and stuff. And Joe has been just that that that mentor

and that example and and all of that for many many years now.

And I

never heard of him. Isn't that where is he

located?

He is out of Scottsdale, Arizona. Is where

he's located. Yeah, very

interesting. So take me through a typical week,

if there is a typical week, how many conversations are you

having, and how do you decide which people to spend your time

with?

Sure. So, okay. So my typical work week is is

Monday. So I I'm a family guy. You can probably tell I that's a

picture back there of of six of our grandkids. That was taken a

few years ago. We've now got nine grandkids, so the family's

grown a little. I have seven kids of my own, and and so my

business for many years now has been set up. It is a total a

lifestyle business that I wanted my business to be able to

support me in being the husband that I want to be, and being the

father that I want to be, and also being the entrepreneur that

I want to be, and so you know we still have three kids under our

roof who are still in school, and and they you know so every

morning I am getting them up and and getting them fed and and and

ready for school and all that kind of stuff, and then in the

afternoon they're home around 3o'clock, and so my workday ends

at 3pm. because that's when the kids get home from school. Fair

enough, I love it.

And and so you know, I my my day it'll start

like around 6am. and I've got a little bit of quiet time for

myself to do whatever, do some reading or what have you before

I start waking kids up, and then from from then until about 8am,

I'm getting kids ready for school and all that, and then

I've got a little bit of time with my wife from eight to nine

usually, and then 9o'clock is when I'll start my workday, and

and and in the mornings I'll just usually have like about an

hour to do just whatever button up stuff from yesterday. Follow

up with some introductions or what have you. And first call

usually takes place around 10 a.m. Okay. And so my call

schedule runs from 10 to noon, and then again from 1 until 3

p.m. And so that those are the times that people have available

for booking time to talk with me. And it'll be a combination

of maybe you know 30 minute like like connection calls just to

touch base with people. It might be a podcast pre interview

conversation. It might be a podcast interview. I might this

morning I held a a Zoom get together for a group of clients

this morning and stuff, and and that lasted a couple hours, and

so you know, so it varies. So I'm having anywhere from 123,

like maybe like six to eight conversations in a day that

might be with one person or it might be with a group of

entrepreneurs, and it's mostly like just like we're doing this.

It's on. I am on Zoom all the time. Yeah, me too.

So so back up for a second. And you said like this

morning you had a conversation with some of your clients on

Zoom. Yes. So was that intentional as like a mastermind

or get to meet each other kind of thing? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So

it's

not a mastermind. I mean, we do a

little bit of mastermind, but really, the purpose of that

call. So there was five people on that particular call, and

they are in a group. So we're we're in. This was we we just

started q3 here.

Just stop for one. The

purpose of that call is to so we are in we we

just started our q3 groups so this is the first you know

October November December they'll be in the same group for

one quarter so for three monthly calls and so and I put them in

groups of between typically between. Three to six people at

a time, and so there was five people on that particular call

today. And I and I run multiple groups for my clients right now.

I have 27 clients that I'm serving, and so I put them in

groups like that. And so, but the whole purpose of these calls

is to just talk about where we're at right now what we could

most use help and support with, and then all of us are opening

our networks and making those kind of connections for each

other. And we we start every call by celebrating wins that

have taken place over the last 30 days. And man, everybody had

some great wins to to to share and stuff. And then we just

continue on, and now we go back through again and let everybody

share where they're at right now and what they could most use

help and support with, and then everybody just pours into that

person, and we just start opening our networks and making

those connections for them and stuff.

So, just out of curiosity, are there particular

types of businesses that you attract the entrepreneurs of

leading those businesses, or or how do they find you and that

kind of thing? Like, how does that come about?

Well, now pretty much everybody in my life comes

through the Million Dollar Relationships podcast. Ah, okay.

That has been such. I mean, I I never planned for that four and

a half years ago when we launched the podcast, but that

has become the reality now. And and I love it because it's such

an organic way to start a relationship and just start

getting to know someone and finding out is there an

opportunity, perhaps, for us to work together to do some things

together and stuff? And so, you know, the podcast has become the

gateway, which pretty much everybody comes through now. So,

so what percentage would you say of your

podcast guests become clients?

Oh, very small percent. Very small percent.

Yes, I mean, so we are doing eight podcast interviews a

month. So we release two episodes a week. Some months it

might be 10, depending on how the weeks fall. You know, so

eight to 10 a month, and of that, I mean, I am only bringing

on maybe two clients a month, maybe three on a busy month, so

it's not. This is not a a quantity game at all. No, no,

and and

relationship building isn't either. It's a

long game for sure. Yes,

yeah, yes.

So, so in talking about that, you've said that

revenue is the natural byproduct of doing relationships right.

How does that actually show up in the way that you do business?

And for those of us who don't love selling, how do you talk

about working together without it feeling pushy? Or maybe you

don't. Maybe they do. I don't know.

Well, so okay, so

if you're okay to talk about that,

I am totally okay talking about that because

a lot of people, you know, I do get people reaching out to me,

asking that asking if I would be willing to show them how to do

what I do, and and I have never. Well, actually, I got one guy

I'm working with right now. Everybody else I have turned

down because when I ask them, well, why do you want to do it?

They're like, well, I just think it would be a really profitable

and successful business model, and I'm like, you know, I'm just

going to be completely candid with you. What I do, it's not

going to work for you for you because of that. And there's

nothing wrong with that. I totally get that. If we're going

to become an entrepreneur, we want to run a profitable

business. Yeah. But the reason I got into this in the first place

was I introduced these two guys 16 years ago. Brian Kurtz and

Perry Marshall were the two guys I'm talking about. Okay, and I

introduced

Perry Marshall is. I don't know the other one.

Okay,

Perry Marshall's been around on the online world

for a long time.

Oh yeah, I mean my goodness, he was the guy that

came out the with the definitive guide to Google AdWords all the

way back, and I think 2003, 2004. No wonder I didn't follow

him. I don't like all that stuff, but I do know

who he is. Okay, back in the day, like when who was the guy

from San Francisco? I followed. Anyway, yeah, you'll know him

too. There's there's a few that were early adopters. Yeah. Okay.

Go ahead. So that you introduce those two guys. So

I introduced those two guys, and like within

eight months, they were hosting this big event, this in-person

event back in the Washington D.C. area, and and it was just

and and even at that event, there was probably about 300

entrepreneurs who attended that event, and the morning of that

event, the opening morning, I'm getting text messages from like

two or three of my entrepreneur friends who are at this event,

and they're telling me, you know, Brian and Perry are on

stage right now talking about you in a really great. Light

Kevin, because saying that like this wouldn't even have happened

if you hadn't have been the one that introduced them, and then

my buddy Paul follows that up by saying, Kevin, one never knows

where a well planted seed will sprout, and and those guys, you

know, they have gone on to make such a huge impact. They have

impacted millions of people's lives, and of course, created

millions of dollars in revenue along the way, and that's what

got me thinking: Wouldn't it be cool if I could have a business

where I just got to do that all the time? Well, what

were you doing at that time?

At that time, I was running a publishing

company. Oh my! And and I did. I I ran that publishing company

from 2004 until 2016 for 12 years. I ran that company, and

and I had a a course that I sold. We ended up selling $16.1

million worth of that training over the course of that 12

years, and I had like almost 500 strategic partners that helped

me do that, helped me get my message out into the

marketplace, and and that's actually how I met Perry and

Brian was running that business and stuff, and and part of what

I did, I was so grateful for all those partners, because my

business would not have grown the way it did without their

help, and so I was always just like, "Hey, if there's anything

I can do to be of service, to be of help for you, man, I'm just

I'm totally in, and I'm happy to make a conversation and talk,

whatever." And and so people started taking me up on that,

and and that's when I really figured out that my gift was

being this connector, being this conduit of trust, making these

introductions, and like I said, the one for Brian and Perry was

that that was the clincher right there. That's like, yeah, I want

to do this.

So, so when this happens, like more recently, and

I, as I said in the beginning of the question, you've said

revenue is the natural byproduct of doing relationships right. Is

money ever talked about? Is there a finder's fee that you

ask? Or

oh yeah, yeah. Okay,

so how does okay?

So so the way that I do business, I I like to

do a combination of a retainer and a revenue share, so that

way, when my when my partners when my clients win, I win too

and stuff. And and so the way that I work it is at least right

now the way the pricing is it's it's a $2,000 a month retainer,

and then my clients do a 10% revenue share with me unless

they are in the in raising funds. If they're raising

monies, then we we we make other arrangements and stuff. We don't

do that when when they're raising funds and stuff. But if

it's just you know introductions that lead to partnerships to new

clients and all that, that's that's really easy to track that

stuff. And so, and so, I just do a revenue share with them and

stuff. And and I, in order to do that, though, it so for me to do

my thing, it's been one simple little litmus test, Janice, for

23 years. Every time I introduce two people before I send hit

send on that email. I ask myself, and I already know this

going into it, but I ask, is this going to help me further

the relationship that I already have with both of these people?

And so, and that's always been the litmus test. That's the

that's the whole thing right there. If the answer is yes, I

do it. If the answer is no, that introduction would never happen.

And and that little simple litmus test for 23 years is what

has allowed me to create so much relationship capital with so

many people to where now the introductions I make are so

doggone valuable.

That's really interesting. I appreciate you

sharing that. It is an an art to be able to introduce people

properly and the right people to the right people. How do you

decide? You know that. So you said you already know when you

ask that question before you send that email. So how do you

decide that two people should meet, and what makes that

introduction high trust rather than random? I mean, you've done

your homework. I get that, but you have to be sure. And I know

because I feel that when I'm introducing people, it has to

be, it has to feel right. So, what is it for you that decides?

Well, it's it's how somebody shows up. It's how

other people talk about them. That's really easy to see. That

I mean, you you know what? With with social media, with the

internet, with AI, with all this stuff. I mean, privacy is

completely dead these days. We can find anything we want to

find out about anybody. True, isn't it? Yeah, and and you can

just go on social media and just check, and and not just what

somebody posts, but how they respond to other people and

stuff, you know, and and how they treat other people, and

just how how do they just normally show up? You know,

because that's the most important thing right there. You

know, that is how I care way more about who somebody is and

how they show up than I care about what they do. I could give

a rip about what they do. It's way. It's who they are and how

they treat their

mother, basically. Yes, how

they treat their mom. You bet. You bet.

Interesting. Have you, have you? Can you think of

a time when an introduction didn't go the way you'd hoped?

Oh yeah, yeah. It's happened for sure. What

do you? Can you think of one and a lesson that

you well from it. So I'll

tell you, I'll take it a step further. It's

been a while since this kind of thing has happened, but back in

2021, I had let a person inside my inner circle and stuff, and I

was making connections for them, and they were getting business.

I mean, they were getting a lot of business. I mean, within a

short few months, they had probably got almost $200,000

worth of business out of the group very quickly. And and I

started hearing back from folks that had hired them that like,

hey, I'm they're not delivering. I'm not getting stuff, you know,

and they're they're they're falling behind on deadlines that

they promise, and this and that. And so I started following up

with them, and and they started telling me that yeah, they were

having some internal internal challenges with some people, and

they were shuffling people around. Some people were

leaving, and new people coming in, and and and so I'm giving

them benefit of the doubt, but then I just keep keep you know,

and and so it just continued, and I'm finally like, look, we

got to hop on Zoom or on the phone or whatever and talk about

this, and I we got to we got to figure out what's going on and

what is going to be done to handle this, you know, and and

they ended up we scheduled the call, but then they didn't show

for it and stuff, and and I'm just like my goodness. So this

this cost a pretty fair amount, you know. Yeah, and your

reputation's on the line.

Yeah, 100%, 100%, and and I had to show that

person the exit, obviously, and and I had to have some really

difficult conversations with some other folks too, and and

I'll tell you, you know, that's one of those things right there

where you know what I mean. I I'd like to think that that

would never happen again, but you know what? Even with us

putting our best foot forward, even with us having processes in

place, vetting process, and I do. I have an extensive vetting

process, and for somebody to get to that place, even you know,

because you know anybody that comes into that space. I mean,

all the people are already there. As soon as somebody comes

in, everybody else is like, "Well, they're my kind of people

because Kevin wouldn't have even let them in the door if they

weren't, you know. So there's that trust immediately gets

transferred, you know, and and that you know that that that

that's my real product. It's not introductions. My real product

is trust. Yes, of

course, of course. So

so I had to have some really challenging

conversations, but because of the relationships that I did

have with these folks, because they knew who I was and what my

intentions were and stuff, every single one of them were like,

"Kev, this is not on you, man. You do what you do, and even

when you found out about it. You dealt with it like swiftly, you

know, and so this doesn't come down on you. This does not

damage our relationship. I know who you are. I know who you are

and what you're all about, and I'm continuing on with you, you

know. And and so, like I said, that was 2021, April of 2021. So

that was five and a half years ago. Now you know, and like I

said, I'd like to think that would never happen again. I'd

like to think that my vetting process would would you know

prevent something like that. But you just never know. And and we

just like I said, it's we when we show up the right way, people

will extend grace to us when honest mistakes happen. You

know, people. I mean, because we we're all people. We're all

human. We are going to make mistakes. You know, but people

also know who we are as well.

Well, and I yeah. I mean, and. The The number of

times that's happened is so few compared to all of the successes

that people see that and they they understand that as well.

And and I think I know for me, when someone asks me, one of the

biggest things that I think about is I if they ask me what

you know my philosophy is around building trust with people,

always do what you say you're going to do,

yeah,

right. And be that person that that they can

try, they can count on, right? That's right. So, I mean, and I

know you. I'm preaching to the choir because that's exactly

what you do. You you've talked about how hard it can be for

generous people to receive. Why do you think givers struggle

with this, and how did you learn to let relationships come back

to you?

Well, I can tell you, you know, for most of my

life, up until 12 years ago, I man, I've been a giver my whole

life. I mean, I love giving to people who. I mean, especially

when people just just really appreciate that. I mean, that is

the most amazing feeling in the world to me. And but also for

most of my life, up until 12 years ago, I totally sucked when

it come to the receiving side. And and God forbid that I would

ask others for help or for what I wanted because I was like,

well, I don't want to bother them. I don't want to

inconvenience them. Or there was maybe even this. I guarantee

you, there was this too. Of like, well, what would they

think of me if I was? What would they think of me if they knew I

was dealing with that? You know.

Yeah.

And and you know that's all just BS that we tell

ourselves.

I know.

And my buddy Jesse Elder was the one who

really opened my eyes to this because 12 years ago we were

having a conversation, and we dug in pretty deep on this

subject of giving and receiving. And he's like Kevin. He's like

you know. He's like you're one of the most giving and generous

guys I know, and he's like, how how does it make you feel when

you give to somebody who just really appreciates it? I'm like,

man, I was like, Jesse, I don't know a feeling that's better

than that. That's the most amazing feeling in the world,

and he's like, yeah, right. He said, "But Kev," he said, "Do

you realize that by you showing up the way that you do, he's

like, you shut that down and you deprive people from having the

experience that you just told me was the most amazing

experience." He's like, "Kev." He's like, "Who are you to

deprive people from having that experience?" And I'm like, wow!

I never thought about it that way before, and so ever since,

I've just been playing this game. I've been just having this

experiment of receiving muscles. How much can I expand my own

receiving muscle.

No sound again. Ever since, yeah, go ahead. Just

say again. Ever since then, yeah. Ever since

then, I've just been playing this game, having

this experience, and and explain having this experiment of how

much can I expand my own receiving muscle. And I can tell

you, over the last 12 years, I've found out it's been

expanded big time. And not only have I been able to do it for

myself, so many other entrepreneurs enterpreneurs have

the same exact problem. They're really great at giving, but not

so. I mean, if you know, if I ask them on a scale of one to

10, you know how great are you at receiving? I mean, a lot of

them will say 1245. You know what have you? You know, yeah,

it's it's it's another muscle. I know, you

know, this is nothing to do with entrepreneurship, but it made me

think about my my dear late mother. My mom would go out of

her way to send thank you cards, to give a gift, to do all of

those things for people that she didn't know very well: the

butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. You know,

kind of thing. Like when she'd go on a trip, she would send

postcards to the butcher at the local store because she saw him

every week, and she, you know, whatever. And but if you gave

her something, she didn't know how to do deal with it. She

would have to send a thank you card for the to thank you for

the thing for the you know it went on and on. So I've I've

seen that in action, and we you know in her later years we used

to say to her mom just say thank you. It's okay. Yeah

yeah

right yeah yeah.

But just being able to graciously receive and

say, "Wow, thank you so much! I so appreciate that."

But with with entrepreneurs, what I've seen

and what you just talked about, and I've I interviewed another

big networker who is very adamant about this, and Michael.

Homan from New York. He's he's he's very passionate about

connecting people, and he always says though that most of the

true connectors don't know how to ask for what they want, and

it's exactly what you're just talking about. We have to be

able to do that as well because it makes us more round,

well-rounded as well, and people want to be able to help us the

way that we help them, right?

They absolutely do. Yeah.

So, and people who are givers, did you say that

was Jesse Itzler?

Jesse Elder.

Elder. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. People who are givers, they are surrounded

by people who would love to help them and to give the give to

them if they just knew how. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is

another muscle, though. They have to learn and

be aware of, right? Yeah, for sure. So, for someone listening

who wants a business built more on conversations and less on

chasing? What's one thing they could start doing this week?

Well, I'll tell you, I'll give everybody a nice

challenge so they can have this experience for themselves. So,

the way this all starts is just by being genuinely appreciative

of other people, and you know, I'm going to give you a

challenge, and I'm also going to challenge you. Don't don't look

at this as a strategy or a tactic. Let's just let it be who

you are. So we've oh oh that's interesting. I don't have my

cell phone sitting here. I usually have my cell phone

sitting somewhere on my desk. It's it's not here. It's in it's

gone. I must be out in the other room. Anyways, we've all got a

cell phone with contacts in it, and and those contacts could be

entrepreneurial friends. They could be family. They could be

non-entrepreneurial friends. And for the purpose of this

exercise, it does not matter. But what I want you to do is you

send 10 messages minimum to people in your contacts, and in

those messages, I want you to do one thing. I want you to let

each of those people know one thing that you genuinely

appreciate about them, and and you don't ask for anything in

return. You don't even ask for a response in return. Just send

out some love, and like I said, do it in a compressed time so

that you can have the experience, and you watch what

happens because you are going to have such an amazing experience,

and so are they, and and you are also going to realize that it

was your actions that were the catalyst for that experience,

and you can repeat that process whenever you want. And when we

are just genuinely appreciative for other people, and we look

out for things to be appreciative of others about, we

find that. And and and once we see it, now the other step is we

need to let them know about it. And like this can be done so

easily, you know. You, if you, when you just let this be who

you are, you know, you find yourself. I mean, probably one

to three times a day, I'm sending a text message or maybe

even an audio message to somebody, just saying, "Hey, I

saw this, and I really, I really appreciate you for this. I just

want to honor you, and and I'm appreciative that we're friends,

you know, and and don't even ask for anything in return. Just

send out some love, and this is what causes people to want to be

around us. This is what causes people to want to talk to us.

It's because of how they feel when they are around us. That's

what makes them want to be around us, and being

appreciative of people, just genuinely appreciative. That's

what gives them that feeling.

My gosh, my my audience hears me talk about

this all the time, and to have you talk about it is like gold.

I have this sticky note on my computer right now, and it's um

it's me every day for the last it's been a week and a two days

now, send comment on three LinkedIn posts a day, send three

reconnect messages of some sort to people each day, and send

three cards a day, and that's what I'm doing, and it it and

with nothing in asked in return and you know it's interesting

exercise because the LinkedIn piece is a little bit different

than the reconnects and the sending cards because I'm

looking at it as a as an exercise in a first impression

that comes before the first impression. If you make comments

on people's posts, new people see you, and and does it help

that person as well as helping you, or who does it help? And so

far, I think I've had one reply to a comment. That's it. In

just. Over a week, because we're so busy moving on. I think that

we don't come back and look to see who's commented on our

pieces and so on and so forth. And but I don't care. It's not

why I'm doing. I'm doing it to see what exactly happens. It's

not making me feel badly or anything, but it's certainly

making me see what's happening. But oh my goodness, that was

just gold. That was just gold. It really was, and and and thank

you for that. It was much appreciated.

You're so welcome.

Yeah, it's if only more people could just send

out to give rather than a get to get. You know what's in it for

me, because it just makes such a world of difference. Okay,

couple of quick questions before we wrap up that have nothing to

do with what we do, but who we are, perhaps. So, do you find

yourself? Are you reading something special right now? Do

you read real books, or do you read on a Kindle, or do you

watch videos? I read real

books, and I get people sending or recommending

books, and the most recent one is actually my friend Rob

Onspock just came out with this book, and then I was gone and

talked to him about the things I should have told you while I was

still here.

And he

is he is still here.

Yes,

I mean, and and it was a quick, easy read. I

mean, I read this whole book in about two hours and stuff. Okay.

Yeah. Um. Uh. So I I do read regular. I mean, in fact, that

is usually my quiet time in the morning. Is I'm reading

something.

And is it usually a book for your podcast or a

nonfiction book or you ever get into?

It could be a business book. It could be a

book that some I get people recommending stuff all the time

to me and stuff and and and when when people get really animated

and talk about how excited it's like oh that gives me jazz so

I'm like oh I'm gonna go pick up that book yeah yeah and I I will

tell you my favorite book ever is is The Go Giver by Bob Bergen

is probably I love that book I've read that book 11 times

now. Have you?

Well, I read it

once a year.

I should read it again. I, I always wanted Bob

Berg to be on my podcast, and I had to, I had to make that

happen, and I just kept asking people if they knew him, and

finally somebody did know him and introduced me, and because

he's that's what he's you know he he's pretty much does that

now in his retirement right like and whatever. So I was very

honored to have him on my podcast. I'm sure he's been on

yours too. But and I also had John David Mann on my podcast,

his co-author in that book, and yeah. So I'm I'm great, perfect

book. The one that I remember that got that gets me, and I

haven't looked at it for a long time, but it's a book called I

think it's called The One Minute Millionaire.

Okay, and

the book is written where the story is on

the left-hand pages of the book, and the business lessons are on

the right-hand page of the book. So you can either read it

together or read it. So it's quite brilliant, actually. I

think it was Robert Allen. I'm looking at it on my shelf, and I

can't remember. It's on the shelf. I can't see. Anyway, but

Recently, well, never mind about me. We don't care. This is about

you. So, do you like movies?

I do. You know, I don't go to a ton of them now,

but we we have we have streaming, and and so yes, I I

do love watching movies for sure. Yes. Okay. Just

curious because I'm a movie buff and I love it,

but you've got kids at home, so you're probably influenced by

what they want to see, right?

Yeah, a lot of times we do watch stuff that

they like to see, and I and I and I like to watch the stuff

that they want to see too, you know. And and then and then my

wife and I, we're we're always up for finding a good movie to

watch too, you know. So yeah,

okay, that's cool. Well, this has been a

delight, and I so appreciate you sharing your your intuition and

your wisdom with us. I really do, and I thank you so much for

this conversation. Being on both sides of the mic with you has

been a real treat. And here's a little footnote for everyone

listening. After our first chat, I don't know if you remember

this, Kevin, but Kevin updated his LinkedIn profile URL, so you

can now find him at LinkedIn.com/LinkedIn/Kevyvin.

How perfect, right?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You showed me how to do that.

Yeah. So

what I'm taking away from today is that a

business built on conversations isn't about talking to more

people. It's about how you show up for the ones in front of you.

So here's a challenge. Think of. One person you've been meaning

to reach out to and have that conversation this week, or as

Kevin suggested, open up that phone address book and look in

there and see if there's more than one person. Because as we

always say on this show, relationships rule.

That's right. That's right.

Thank you, Kevin.

You bet. You're so welcome.