Cash Flow for Financial Freedom

Hey, this is Loral. Welcome back to Loral's

Real Money Talks, a podcast about money: how we make it, how

we keep it, how you invest it. Just understanding money. So

many people don't understand money at all. In fact, one of my

latest classes that is being raved about is finance for

non-finance business owners. It's amazing how many finance,

how many business owners start a business with absolutely no

knowledge of finance, much less cash flow. Which brings me to my

guest today, because we're going to talk about cash flow, passive

income. Chris Miles is with me. He's known as the anti-financial

advisor. So let's start there, Chris. Explain why you like that

title. I love that title because I I have all sorts of things to

say about financial advisors.

Well, I I say that because I used to be one in the

early 2000s. I spent four years as the salesman in a suit, aka

financial advisor, right? And like a traditional one for a

while. What's that? Sorry,

like a traditional one, very

traditional, selling you the mutual funds,

telling you to set and forget it, save it forever. Because if

you compound interest for the next 5000 years, you'll be a

millionaire too, right? And that's pretty much what I

taught. You know, I just told people to put it away, and I

drank the Kool-Aid. I believed it myself until about four years

into my journey. My dad reached out and he says, "Well, when are

you going to advise me? And my dad was like the penny pinching

saver, post depression era mentality, the kind of guy that

throws away nothing, literally nothing. And and the guy was

just penny pinch everything. He taught me to save. I didn't even

know debt was a thing you could use when I became an adult

because he refused to let me learn about debt. And and I sat

down with him, and he says, "Chris, I'm 61 years old. I've

had heart attacks. I've had strokes. The stress of this job

will literally kill me. I need out. How can I retire? And so

I'm expecting to see that I'm going to give him the golden

answer, and he'll be able to retire. And he thinks, "Oh,

you're my favorite son. I'm his only son. But you know,

but anyways,

I sit down with them, and I look at it, and I

said, "Dad, here's the deal: you've stuffed money in your

401k, got the company matched like a good boy should. You're

debt free, including his house, so he's mortgage debt free too.

I said, "But here's the deal, Dad. If you try to retire today,

you would have to die in about six years because you'll run out

of money.

Wow.

He's like, "Well, that's not what I wanted to

hear. Like, what? How do I retire? I said, I don't know.

Keep working, you know. Keep saving. I mean, that's all you

can do because I had no answers for him. Because I mean, I told

him, he's like, Dad, you did everything right. It's just you

just haven't done it for long enough, apparently. Especially

with the markets had gone. You know, he he was thinking he was

going to retire in the early 2000s, but then there's Y 2k,

and this is 2005. I'm talking to him, you know, right before

2006. Of course, few years later, the market hit him again.

So he had to postpone retirement into his 70s before he finally

retired, living on really his last 10 years of his life in

retirement. Five was okay, you know, living on a budget. The

other five, he was homebound. He was in basically on in bed with

home health care 24/7, taking care of him. Even to the point

where I bankrolled the last months of his life, paying like

13,000 a month for his home health care and things like

that. And that's the the sad reality is that he was the guy

that did everything right, yet it wasn't enough. And as

somebody who is in his late 20s, I'm thinking, well, this is a

problem. What? Because shouldn't this have worked? I mean, I've

been telling everybody it's good. It's going to work. You

save 100 bucks a month, and just like Dave Ramsey says, you'll be

a millionaire, right?

No,

BS.

Can't. I mean, don't you agree? I'm just going

to cut. Like, you can't save your way to success.

No.

I mean, you can hope that it's going to work

out. You can invest your way to success, but the word "save,

I've beat up the word "save" since I started my career

because I think it's savings is an undefined lump of money you

just put in your savings. Well, what's it doing there? What's it

for? What's its purpose? So I just don't like the words. So I

I always say you can't save your way to success, but you can

invest your way.

That's right. Well, and and even earlier that year,

I remember meeting with my brother-in-law, who came from a

family of very like his dad was a self-made millionaire. His dad

was homeless at 16. At 18, worked for a dealership. At 19,

he got his own dealership. He actually convinced Chrysler to

give him their first dealership in the state of Utah, and then

by 21, he became a multi-millionaire, which in

1960s actually meant something. Now it means middle class,

right? Right. But I mean, that guy was very successful. So when

I sat down with my brother-in-law, trying to

impress him with my vast knowledge of investments around

mutual funds and stuff like that, you know, I sit down with

him and he's like, "So Chris, if I give you 10 grand to play with

today, you're saying you can make me 12% right? I'm like,

"Well, there's no guarantees, but since 2000 BC, the market

has averaged 12. You know, which isn't true, and and so he's

like, okay, Chris. So 10,000 bucks, if I give that to you,

you might make me 1,200 bucks in a year. But Chris, I've got a

dealership. He had a big rig dealership with like semi

trucks. He's like, I have a dealership. I could put 10 grand

as a. Down payment on a semi truck, turn around, flip it a

few months later, make 20 grand profit. So why should I invest

with you? I said, well, you should be diversified. You

shouldn't pull all your eggs in that one basket. Ironically,

since I was a business owner myself, I was 100% commission

only, self employed as a financial advisor, which that

was my number one investment that was working, not the mutual

funds. And here I am telling him, yeah, don't do the thing

that works. Do the thing that hasn't been proven to work,

right? And that's when I realized, like, really March of

'06, after I I kind of stepped away a little bit, kind of got a

bigger view, started meeting guys that were in the real

estate investing space. I realized, you know what? I can't

teach this crap anymore. I cannot keep my integrity taxed

and stay as a financial advisor, so I quit. Vowed never to teach

about money again. I would just do mortgages on the side because

in 2006, everybody could do mortgages, and then I would

teach ballroom dancing as well at the local university, and and

I was doing that. I like the latter

one. I like the latter. I

know. I mean, kind of a renaissance thing, right?

But yeah, I mean, I was having fun doing that kind of stuff,

but you know, eventually I started learning about real

estate investing. And later that year, by turning my own starter

home into an investment property, and literally I could

do hard money lending and things like that, I had enough passive

income coming in. Of at that time, only needed like 3500 a

month to live on. I had like four or five grand a month

coming in from that, as well as other streams of income from

like some business, you know, like affiliate type stuff. Even

though I wasn't affiliate back then, was just I was referring

some people, and I was like, "Holy crap! I'm 28, almost 29

years old, and I can definitely be retired. And that's when I

realized, like, I was onto something. I'm like, I I was

hoping and praying I could retire my 50s or 60s as a

financial advisor, and here I am in my late 20s, trying to wonder

what I'm going to do with my life, and and that's kind of

when I came out and started coaching in 2007. And despite

the recession, going over a million dollars in debt, had to

dig out of that hole. And eventually, I was able to retire

the second time after I got back out of the rat race again by the

end of 2016. And so I had to do it twice technically.

What talk about the market right now?

There's a lot of opinions on a runaway market going to have a

huge correction, going to go in a deep recession. Some people

say it's going to keep going, you know, for a while. Talk

about the market currently today, 2026.

Yeah, the thing is, the market-it's always based on

how much money's circulating, right? Like, how much is there

available money? Like, 2008, 2007-I mean, that was a big

problem. We couldn't get access to money because the banks were

like, "Sorry, we don't want to lend. Especially the business

owners, right? That was one of my problems. I couldn't get

equity out of my house because they said, "No, we don't like

business owners anymore, so no cash out refinances for you. And

I locked all my money in home equity, right? Now is not that

problem. Right now, we have the opposite problem. There's money

available everywhere, and that's why the stock market's still

going. Even though the stock market should have crashed,

definitely it should have actually crashed in 2020. But

the government obviously started printing more dollars, working

with the Treasury and with the Feds hand in hand. You know,

going to bed together that way to make sure there's tons of

money in the system, and it created this extra big bubble

that we've been in. In fact, we've had the largest, really

the longest bull market run in the stock market in history.

Yeah,

like 2009 until now, we had a little 2022 blip.

Whoop-de, freaking do. Nobody even remembers that they lost

money in 2022, right? Because the market just kept soaring

away, and so we are overdue for correction. Now, will it be

massive? I mean, I know Diary of a CEO. There was a guy that got

on there. There was a money manager saying he expects a 70%

loss in the stock market. I don't think it matters. What

really matters is kind of I started teaching people in 2020

when I thought we were going to move into a recession because I

think it could be extended if they keep printing more money.

But at some point, we're going to have to pay the piper, right?

At some point, it's gonna catch up to us, and they can't just

keep running up more debt to try to artificially prop up the

economy. And so, for us as business owners, the big thing

is I taught this, and it's actually in my book too. It's

get lean, get liquid, and get out. So, get lean is make sure

you really are tracking your money. You don't have to like

live on fricking rice and beans, like our good old buddy Dave

Ramsey says, right? You don't have to do that kind of crap.

You don't have to be so cheap that you cut out that latte

factor, like Dave Bock says. You know, it's always a Dave, right?

That tells you to not live life.

Or Susie, to Dave. Or Susie,

exactly. Yes, her too. But it's always they're

always telling you to restrict, and you don't have to do that,

but you do need to be a wise steward of your resources,

right? So in business, I recommend people like if you're

using QuickBooks or whatever system you're using doesn't

matter. I like to track my money weekly because I can prevent a

lot more money leaks in my business by being proactive

rather than reactive at the end of the year when I'm doing

taxes, right? When it's already too late. Also in your personal

life, you know whether you're using like Monarch or Rocket

Money or whatever it might be, track your money there too. You

know, make sure you are tracking your money, and and doing that.

If you do that on a weekly basis, you tend to be on top of

things. You tend to tell if there's you know apps that

you're getting charged for that you should be you know paying

for anymore. I remember there was one woman that she was like.

Get a quarter million in Silicon Valley a year, and I'm broke

every month. I don't know why. Well, we ran the numbers. She

was spending 5600 a month eating out, like literally eating out

5600 a month. And by the way, this was 2010 prices, so this

would be like spending over 10 grand a month eating out. And

and I said, you know what? Cut back that budget to like 1000 or

so a month. You know that was still free up 4600 a month, and

you could be able to do more with it, right? So it cut back

in the ways that it's necessary to help you have some freedom.

But the other side of the equation is: can I make more

money too? Can I increase the amount of value I'm creating for

other people? Can I, you know, solve problems? Which right now

there's more problems to solve than ever. Be a problem solver,

solutions provider. You'll make more money, right? So that's get

lean. Get liquid means you have cash in your control. Don't lock

it up in prison, like everybody talks about putting your money

in the 401k's and IRAs. I don't believe that. Like I'm not

saying that you never use them, but when they make that the one

and only solution for you, that's because Wall Street gets

paid the most money, right? That's how they make all their

money. They're the ones telling you lock it away forever, so

they get paid forever, right?

And they get the residual, but they also

there's no tax strategy in that, as you and I know, like yeah,

yeah. The you know I always tell people have your 401k open.

That's your own company. I mean, obviously, a lot of people

listening are probably employed, and they they don't have command

of their 401k. But for entrepreneurs, our company 401k

has become a tax strategy. Do you have to maximize it all the

time? Old folk, like you said, would say yes. We would say if

you need it, but it's not the first go to. It is usually the

last go to for me. Usually, it's oil and gas, real estate, all

the alternatives, real assets that actually produce cash, cash

flow, and passive income. Then, if I need to use a 401k at the

finale, then you can have it, but have the account open. But

to your point, most people see that as a sole source of a

retirement plan, and it's so wrong because you're going to be

taxed at the end, and you don't know the tax rate.

That's right, and you can get so. That's the

thing. I argued with a financial advisor literally just a few

hours before this, right? And he was saying, "Oh yeah, we put it

away, and they can put away hundreds of 1000s a year into

these retirement, these you know qualified plans and such. I'm

like, "Well, one, I don't trust the government, and they can

change the rules whenever they want because I don't go into

business with somebody who controls all the rules that way,

and that's what the government is. They own your 401k. You're

just the benefactor, right? You're just the you're. It's for

the your benefit, but they make all the rules. So I'm like, I

don't trust that. Two, it's so hard to get to the money when

you need it if you need it, and that's why you need to have

liquid cash. That's why I don't like locking away in in home

equity. I made that mistake in the last before the last

recession, I thought because I was a mortgage broker. If I ever

needed cash, I just cash out refi and get my money out. Well,

until it didn't work, right? That's why I don't agree with

people. They say, "Oh, I have cash reserves. I got a credit

card. I'm like, "Yeah, until you don't. If they cut back limits,

and I watched that happen so much in 2007 and 8, people that

had all these credit limits get cut back to their balances, and

then they or close altogether. You know, so you got to be

careful of that. So have liquid cash. I don't care if it's in a

savings account. You know, I use a combination of you know bank

savings local that I can get to today, high yield savings

accounts, which I can obviously transfer to my bank in a few

days, and then I use life insurance for the lion's share

of my money because I can get to that money whenever I want, but

I'm getting paid like a guaranteed, you know, five 6% a

year tax free on it, and I can get to that money whenever I

need it. So I

within your life insurance policy.

I'm sorry, say again.

Usually within your life insurance policy.

Correct. Yes, specifically whole life

insurance. Not like some people are like marketing like oh index

universal life, all that kind of stuff. It's like no, those

things are market driven. You you can't count on those

exactly. But I use the boring whole life that right now they

they're paying over 6% a year, you know, dividends, you know,

and and that has no market risk. So it's a safe place I can get I

can store it. I can get to it whenever I need it too.

Yep, yep. So that's why I think so so few

people know or understand passive income. I mean, you and

I know that answer, but let's just talk about passive income.

I and I'm just going to start off saying, just you know, I

make fun of it because I don't think anything's purely passive.

I call it packedive. You're going to be a little bit active,

at least with some oversight of your real estate that's going to

produce that cash flow. So I like that your shirt says cash

flow freedom versus passive income because I do make fun of

passive income because passive is nothing and too many people

do nothing so I'm just giving them no permission you have to

pay attention like you said weekly to your money you've got

to pay attention and and all those I'm going to do it for you

real estate deals you still need to have oversight, so I'll give

a my little just my my rules around that as you answer that.

Absolutely, I I couldn't agree more because you

know you're right. It requires a level of stewardship, right? The

problem is we've been brainwashed to believe by the

financial industry, financial advisors, and the companies they

work. For that, we just set and forget it, and we just never

have to think about it ever again. When has that ever worked

in real life? Like, when have we ever been passive? What what

happens in our relationships if we're passive with it? They'll

leave. If we're passive with our health, our health will leave.

If we're passive with our money, it'll leave too. And we got to

be careful not to be, you know, like I'm not talking about like

hands off investments. There's great ways to be the financier

or you know hands off in that way, but you still have to be

very much aware and manage that stewardship, or you'll lose it.

And so I agree. Like even rentals, like for example, the

most hands off rental strategy when it comes to real estate is

turnkey rentals. But even then, I mean, one. I mean, I'm doing

upfront work to make sure that hey, is appraisal still look

good? Is you know, do we make sure that we actually have the

right numbers before we get in? Do we do we know for a fact that

the home inspection is done right because I don't have to

pay maintenance in something that I just barely bought? You

know, all these factors, and yeah, you may have some

headaches. So I tell people at best it's semi active or semi

passive. Now I might lend my money. For example, I lend my

money to real estate investors, and it's very hands off. But if

they don't pay me, right, I might have to foreclose on them.

I might have to take that control back, take that

property, and that's anything but passive. And so there's

always that due diligence period and those kind of things that

aren't passive at all, but in comparison, I'll tell you, like,

because I mean, I've got roughly about 50,000 a month of passive

coming in for myself right now, and for me, like, I spend maybe

at most couple hours a month managing my, you know, my

stewardship and my investments and things like that, because

again, like most of it's like watching grass grow, you know,

like it comes in, it's doing its thing. Now up front, now I'm

getting into new investments. I might spend anywhere from

several minutes to maybe a few hours, depending on the

investment. But once I'm in, I'm in, you know, and and then it's

just a matter of you know filling, make sure that things

are okay, and watching and managing what I have. So no,

it's it's never brain off. Never think that passive means brain

off. But if we're talking about like passive income, even if

it's oil and gas, because I've got oil and gas investments like

you have as well. I mean, I've got stuff in business and things

of that nature. Like there's so many cool things you can do in

the alternative investment space that no financial advisor will

ever tell you about. Because one, either they don't know

about it themselves, like myself. I didn't know any about

about most these things, or two because they don't want you know

about because they don't get paid a dime if you go and do

those other investments, and that's the real reason why

you're never taught. I'm going to go in

three. They're legally licensed. They have to

only sell into their broker dealer. They can't. So to that

point, I mean, so few people endorse or even understand

alternative investments. So I wrote, I mean, early 2007. I

wrote Well Cycle Investing, which is a complete chapter by

chapter alternative. Every alternative you can invest in

that was available at the time. Now there's more alternatives

because you know the economy and industry shift. So why do you

think so few people understand alternatives. For I'm not speak

for me. That's all I was ever ever introduced to. Like I knew

real estate. I worked, you know, with Chevron. I built the

fitness centers. I saw gas and oil, and I knew they were they

had bypassed a lot of small fields. And that's when a lot of

us, when we left Chevron, got together the the geologists and

the engineers, myself, bunch of safety engineers were like, we

know the fields. They bypassed because they were too small for

a chevron, but they're not too small for a small operator.

That's how I got into all these alternatives really, really,

really young. And the market was always, like you said, an

elusive, you know, emotional machine that's controlled by a

lot of other market makers and not us, so that's how I got in

the alternatives. Tell me about. I mean, obviously your story is

very similar. You went, you know, very stock market-ish and

mutual funds, and then over. But in general, Chris, why are so

few people talking about alternatives when it's what

makes us the wealthiest and gives us the most cash flow.

It's true. Well, it's it's traditionally been

reserved for the wealthy than the rich class, right? It's the

poor middle class are told to invest in their 401k's

and Roth IRAs.

Poor middle class are told, "Hey, just pay off

your house and you'll live an adequate lifestyle. But what

people don't realize, and it's becoming more common thanks to

social media and things that we're doing, like these

podcasts. It's becoming more aware, but the truth is that the

the massive sales force of financial advisors, and that's

really what they are. You you nailed on the head. Like when I

had my securities license, I'll tell you the most free day I

ever had was in 2005 when I dropped my securities license

because I wasn't licensed to make people money. I was

licensed to sell only a very specific suite of "quote

unquote" financial products, right? And none of them fit in

that alternative. And I call it more not even just alternative

investments, but Main Street investing versus Wall Street.

They always pitch Wall Street, but Main Street. I mean, this is

stuff that's been going on for 1000s of years. People have been

buying and selling businesses, investing that way. People have

been buying and selling real estate for 1000s of years. The

Wall Street's only been around for a few 100 years. It's not

even that new. But marketing from the big companies, all the

billions that go into every financial news network that you

see, they're the ones paying for that those ad spaces for them to

say yes, go invest with Fidelity or Merrill Lynch or whatever

crappy company you want to invest with, and again, they

serve their need. But the whole other side, the side that the

wealthy families have known about for so long, the side that

you know you see the the typical private wealth accounts go into,

and the hedge funds and things like that, they're investing in

these places already. I mean, a lot of them even have like 30%

of cash sitting on sidelines or cash equivalents, combined with

all these other alter investment class, yeah, they might have a

little Wall Street in there too, but they put a lot of money into

things like private equity and credit. They put things into

real estate. They put things into oil and gas. They're

already doing the stuff. It's just now it's the time that

people realize again, you're not what's called an accredited

investor, where you make at least 300,000 a year on your tax

return, or and or you have a million dollar net worth, not

including your equity of your house, you won't often hear

these things, especially if you're under that that realm.

Like most of those people won't even offer it to you, anyways.

But there are still some access ability for people to be able to

get in to deals like this, even if you don't qualify that way,

yeah, absolutely. So, just I'm gonna

I'm gonna ask this question because it's kind of wide open.

But when you say, "How do you achieve financial freedom? How

would you answer that? Because so many people come to me

because they want financial freedom, and I say, "Does that

really mean that you just want a life of freedom? So you have

like time freedom, lifestyle freedom. What does it really

mean? So describe that, just because I think there's so many

descriptions you can put with what does it mean to be

financially free.

Yeah, see, I was going to say same thing as well.

How do you define financial freedom? And I'll tell you how

you can get it. You know, I think there's two different

terms. There's financial independence and financial

freedom, financial independence. Simply put, is when you have

more than enough investment income or other income streams

coming in, whether you work or not. Right, they can pay your

bills. So if you have enough passive income coming in to pay

your monthly expenses, you can be financially independent. But

that does not make you financially free. And I learned

that firsthand because I had to do it twice. Financial freedom

is actually more of a state of being or state of mind, a state

of abundance, and that's something that you can't be

bought because I've had plenty of clients get out of the

quote-unquote rat race. Right, they have more passive income

coming in than their expenses, but they still feel broke or

they still feel like it's not it's quote unquote not enough.

And I believe that financial freedom is when money is no

longer the reason or excuse that you do or do not do anything.

That you now feel like you're in that place, and that's something

you can start working on right now. For me, it took me going

broke in 2009. I didn't go bankrupt, but I was over a

million dollars in debt. Got foreclosed on my house just a

week before my fourth child was born. So we literally, as my

wife's going through postpartum, we're moving out into a small

rental, right? Moving out of our dream home that we had bought in

2006, and so I mean, I had to lose everything to find out that

I actually had everything, that the stuff didn't matter anymore.

I was like, I was disconnected. I kept the minivan. We hid it in

the garage so the the repo guys couldn't take it. But for us,

once I detach from the stuff and I stop trying to prove with ego

that, and this is true even for business owners, right? Often

I'll drive a car that's less expensive than many of my

business owner friends, but I make more money than them, you

know, because I just don't give a crap. And that's it's funny

enough for me. That's when I realized that I created

financial freedom in 2009 when I was broke. Is when I detached

from that. Then once the money came in; it didn't matter. Like

I just had to hit financial independence, and the freedom

was already there.

Yeah, I had to share. I laughed because, like,

I flew around in a King Air C 90 multi million dollar plane that

was more important because that was my freedom to get around

this planet, not really the planet in the U S and Canada as

fast as I could, do as many shows as I could and get back

home, but that was so vital to my career. And I would come

home, and people they arrived or saw me, they'd be like, "And you

drive a Jeep? I'm like, "Yeah, because I don't care. It gets me

from here to there, and I like them. So now, yeah, it's just

interesting how people put values or egos importance on

things, and it's different for everybody. So that's why I love

asking the question because I think you know what's going to

have you be free is very different than you know what

other people need to be free. Chris, I know you're whatever

definition of freedom is. It might be

different when you get there.

Oh yeah, and then you go like, "This is it,

or "This is like not it, okay. Mis misaligned on that, and you

go again. And I have a saying. It's called "So what now? What?

So what you arrived, or so what happened? It's now what are you

going to do? When you live in the now, what's going to happen?

And you have that really generative energy, just like to

move here and then move here, and just you keep moving forward

versus looking back and having. Any of that affect your future

changes you changes your decision making your freedom

creating your freedom structure. Chris, I know you have a

calculator. Talk about your calculator. Talk about your

book. How do people follow you? How do they watch you?

Yeah, most people don't realize that they actually

have more potential for creating passive income than they

realized, and so to help people do that, because people kept

asking me, and they'd say, "Well, what do you see, Chris? I

finally put my brain into a calculator. So on my website at

moneyripples.com, there's a passive income calculator you

can actually put your numbers into. takes maybe a couple

minutes, and it can spit out saying, "Here's how much passive

income you could create in the next 12 months in your current

situation. So kind of a cool free tool you can try out.

Okay, cool. And how do you get your book,

Money Ripples?

Yep, go to Amazon. Yeah, we got the the book called

The Work Optional Blueprint, and so you can find that on on

Amazon or wherever you buy books. You know, but it's

basically there. Eventually, the audio book will be out too, but

not for a few months.

Okay, cool. But yeah, if you ever want to

follow us? There's at Money Ripples and social

media moneyripples.com, or we have the Money Ripples podcast.

You can follow as well.

Perfect, and I am over there on his podcast. So

go check out our interview.

Yeah, this has been great to

have you today. Love to have you back. I

think you and I could rant about cash flow and just just the

structure of what it takes to to create call it wealth, financial

freedom, just the freedom in general, and create the cash

flow that you really need, and understand how much it is,

because so many people are in the situation that your father

found them in, and still today, it's why so many baby boomers,

in my opinion, are still working. Is they had a huge

miscalculated structure of thinking that that was going to

be enough, and they didn't. They didn't. You know, nobody.

Everybody puts a little inflation in there, but when

they really figure out the calculator, they forget all the

economic up and downs. I mean, the fact that 30% was lost in

2020, and now they're what 20 something percent was lost in

the market in 20, you know, 22. Like I said, there's just so

many variables that affect that number that never goes into the

calculation. So take advantage of Chris's calculator and do it

on a regular basis so you keep your mind straight.

Absolutely,

Chris. Thank you. And those of you that are

out there, if you have any questions at any time, always go

to askloral.com. A s k l o r a l. Ask a question, make a

request. We'll be back next Friday on the next podcast.