[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_03] What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead and connect with others.

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_03] Each week I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hello everyone and welcome to you wherever you happen to be.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_03] I hope that your day is going well and that your week is going well. And we'll try to make it a little bit more inspirational and have a little bit of fun. And maybe learn a few things along the way. I am Michael Hingson, the host of Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here with us. Today we have Peggy Chong, who is a person who's done a number of things in her life. She's been a ballet dancer. She's been an airline hostess and flight attendant. And now she is a life coach.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_03] And I know that there is a story behind all of that. So I think it will be fun to talk with her. And I think I'm sure, as I said, along the way, we'll get some good snippets of things that we all should learn. So Meryl, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're really glad you're here.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_00] Thank you so much, Michael. It's such a privilege to be here. And yeah, hello, listeners. Yeah, wonderful to be here. And I really enjoy your podcast. I must say you have some really interesting guests. So hopefully you get some good feedback from me on the show today.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_03] Well, I'm sure that we will. And you're in South Africa, right?

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_00] Yes, that's right. I'm in Johannesburg.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_03] Johannesburg. And so with instantaneous communications, we can go forward and we don't even have to worry about the Pony Express. Although earlier, Meryl had a power failure where she lived. So she actually relocated for the hour over to her son's house, which was an area that didn't lose power. And hopefully we won't over the next hour or so. So technology, isn't it wonderful?

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00] Isn't it? Absolutely. And yes, so South Africa, I think we're quite unique in the world. We have what's called load shedding. It's been quite a bit better the last couple of years, but load shedding is literally just where the power goes out in certain areas almost on a schedule. But yeah, this was an unexpected one. So yeah, took me by surprise and I didn't want to take the chance of not being able to talk to you and letting you down.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00] So yeah, thank you for that.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_03] Well, I appreciate that. I have solar here and I even have a battery backup. So we are, we're connected to the power grid. And if the grid goes out, we lose power because we're actually getting our power from the grid. And then we're providing enough power from solar back that we actually provide more power than we use. But yeah, not being without concern about power failures from time to time.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_03] We did put in a battery backup last year. So at this point, if we lose power, we're good. So I'm not going to worry about it. Well, anyway, thanks for being here. Why don't we start with you maybe talking a little bit about kind of the early Meryl growing up and we'll go from there.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, sure. Thanks, Michael. Well, yes, I grew up in a very middle class family, a very happy childhood. I started dancing when I was five years old. Both of my sisters used to do ballet. And of course, I used to go and watch them practicing. And it was, well, mom, how soon can I start? So on my fifth birthday, I was allowed to start dancing. And I'd dance for, well, I stopped dancing when I was 21.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00] But yeah, I was a ballet dancer. I loved school. I loved all my friends from a very early age. I was always the child that everybody would go to if they had problems with anything, even if it was something like somebody losing their lunchbox. It would be, well, go to Meryl. She'll sort it out. And then in high school, I went to a school which was for art, ballet and music students.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00] So that was sort of a special, similar to the art schools that they have in New York. Yeah, the dancing schools and that, like in FEM. So I went to a school like that in Pretoria, in South Africa. And it was wonderful. We only had 460 pupils in the entire school. Wow. So it was very small. Yeah. We were 12 people. Yeah, 12 people in our class. So that was fantastic.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_00] And we were split into ballet or music or art students. So very creative environment. And I absolutely loved it. But yes, I was unfortunate enough to be accepted into the professional ballet company at that stage, the Performing Arts Council of the Transvaal. And for three years, I was doing quite well.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_00] But unfortunately, I then developed bulimia. So I'm not sure if you know what bulimia is, but it's a really shocking eating disorder.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00] And that came about purely because I think I was just going through, you know, as a dancer. So first of all, I was very young when I left school. I only turned 16 in October the year that I left school. So when I went out into the big wide world, I really was very ill-equipped to cope with life.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00] And that, I really think, is the main reason why I battle so much with being an adult. I know it sounds crazy, you know, but even youngsters now, they talk about adulting, you know, as a verb.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00] But yeah, just going from a very, very protected environment at home, where literally my entire life was school and ballet and school and ballet and school and ballet. I was fortunate enough to travel overseas. We went to, I was part of a, it was the first interracial ballet group in South Africa, the Johannesburg Youth Ballet.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_00] And I traveled to Israel and Scotland and London with them on tour. And so I was very, very honored to be able to dance at Her Majesty's Theatre in London, which was obviously like a childhood fantasy of mine. And so I managed to do that, which was wonderful.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00] But yes, when I then moved out of home and I had to move to Johannesburg, being away from my, especially my mom, and it sounds crazy, but we were really, really close. I was the youngest and my other sisters were quite a lot older than me. So my mom and I had spent so much time together that I really had lived a very, very protected life. I hadn't had a boyfriend.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00] I just didn't socialize. I think I went to a total of two parties in my entire high school career, secondary school period. And yeah, just very, I can really only say protected.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_03] And your mom didn't realize how much, your mom didn't realize how much maybe she was protecting you and not helping you prepare for more adult life.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00] Absolutely. And I say that with all the love in the world because the most wonderful woman and very, very selfless. She sacrificed everything for us kids. And it was just, I was incredibly lonely. And unfortunately, I then turned to food for comfort. And it might, it might sound silly, but even there, because my eating had been so controlled at home.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00] And because I mean, my, my mom desperately wanted me to, to be a professional dancer. And for me, even, even just eating a chocolate was an absolute no, no. So when I started eating things like that, and I wasn't aware of the fact that I was actually doing it.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_00] So instead of eating something like an apple or some other fruit or something like that to soothe me or to, for my comfort eating, I started eating things like chocolate or fudge, quick energy things. Because I was eating so little at that stage, and it's going to sound crazy, especially to the listeners.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_00] But unfortunately, this is something that models, gymnasts, ballet dancers, jockeys all go through any, any career where weight is an issue. Is your body becomes so used to eating so little. So literally, I would eat an apple at lunchtime.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00] And I would have a tiny little piece, maybe not even 60 grams of chicken or meat and two vegetables at night. And that was the sum total of what, what I was eating and drinking black coffee. So all of a sudden, also, because I was, and this is going to sound crazy, and I don't want to spend too much time on this.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00] But because I was actually doing this physical activity than I had been doing when I was at school and dancing, because there I used to do two hours of classes in the morning at school. And then in the afternoon, I would have an hour and a half of class, plus then rehearsals for whatever show we were preparing for. When I went to PACT, we would only have an hour and a quarter class in the morning.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00] And then three quarters of the rest of the day, we'd be sitting around watching other people rehearsing until it was your time to rehearse. So I was actually doing less physical activity then.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_00] And of course, when you're used to doing a lot of exercise, your body, how can I explain it, almost creates more testosterone, which obviously suppresses the estrogen, which is what gives us ladies our wonderful curves, which is valid answers you're not allowed to have. My body started changing shape.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_00] And the ballet mistress at PACT came to me, who had actually been my teacher all the time when I was at high school. And she complained. Even though I weighed the same as I did when I was at school, she came to me and said to me, you know, you need to lose some weight, you need to lose at least five kilos. And at that stage, I weighed 45 kilos. So I'm 5'3 or 1.6 meters tall.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_00] And there'd never been a problem at that weight when I was at school dancing. Anyway, I was then trying to lose weight and I just wasn't losing. So I would literally starve myself. I would live on black coffee for eight, nine days and then not have the energy to be able to get through class. So I would quickly go and buy chocolate and have that to give me energy to get through class.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00] And then one of the ladies in the company said to me, but there's no problem here. Because I kept on saying I feel so guilty now because I'm eating things like chocolates and I'm still not losing weight even though I'm starving myself for so long. But you can eat as much as you like, but then just take laxatives because that solves the problem.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_00] And that's how my bulimia started, which is – so just as a word of caution to any youngsters out there or even older people who might be on the edge of becoming bulimic, is please just be cautious. You know, in bulimia, generally you purge. So what bulimia is, is literally you will overeat, which is comfort eating.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00] So it's a psychological illness. It's not actually an eating disorder. It's a mental disorder because it's emotion driven. So you eat more and then you feel guilty about that and you then either purge through the use of laxatives or vomiting. And it's very seldom that it's both. But with me, it was laxatives.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00] And yeah, that eventually – so I ended up leaving dancing because I just – I couldn't lose the weight. And the longer I was on the laxatives, the puffier and fatter I looked, even though my weight was coming down. But yeah. So yeah. And then I decided I wanted to – you're going to laugh at this, Michael.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00] I actually started flying with South African Airways because I sort of betwixt in between. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I had absolutely devastated my mother because her dream of one of her girls becoming a famous ballet dancer had now come to an end, which I – and she did.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00] She literally gave up living when I told her that I was stopping dancing, which was a guilt that I carried with me for many, many, many years. And yeah. Sorry. I haven't spoken about this for a long time.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_03] I hear you. So was there a father in the picture at the same time or did you –

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. So he was around. I only ever remember him coming to watch me dance once when I was still very little. He didn't really come and watch me or he never came to watch me as I got older. And he was dead against me doing ballet as a career.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_01] Ah.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. But yeah. For me, it was sort of a given. It was just expected by my mom, my ballet teachers and everybody that that's what I would do. So again, it was something that – for me, it was never a conscious decision that, yes, this is what I want to do. It was just, well, this is what I need to do. This is what mom wants and this is what I need to do.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00] So yeah. So people's expectations. And at the time, I didn't feel pressurized or anything. It was just – I didn't even question it. It was just, well, that's what I'm doing.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_00] I didn't even really think about it. And then, yeah, when I stopped dancing, it was like, well, now what? And I thought, well, I've always – I loved flying when I did the Scotland and England trip. So – and I really wanted to get to Disney World because I have a thing about Mickey Mouse.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_01] There you go.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. So I've even got Mickey Mouse, two Mickey Mouse, like big postcards above my desk at home that brighten up my day each day and inspire me to be cheerful all day. So that's actually – so that and I wanted to see Baryshnikov dance live. So those are the two main reasons that I started flying and promptly ended up doing that for almost 14 years. Absolutely loved it.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_00] And eventually, it gave up purely because by then I had gotten married and I'd had my first child. And, yeah, it seemed time to devote my life to my family. So that was the end of that. So, yeah, sorry. That was a very long-winded explanation of my childhood.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_03] But I see that, you know, there were a lot of things going on. And so you flew for 14 years. But then you got married. And so you eventually stopped flying basically to raise a family?

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_00] Yes. Unfortunately, that didn't work out too well. My marriage was a very unhappy marriage. Very abusive, not physically, but verbally and psychologically. And, yeah, after several separations and eventually we had a second child.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00] But, yes, everything that I went through with fibulomia and realizing how inept I was at being able to live life when I left school was really the foundation for me wanting to learn more about myself and about other people. So eventually, because my marriage was now on the rocks, I needed to go and work.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_00] And I became a travel agent and then a corporate travel manager for a big telecommunications company. And, yeah, that went okay. But really everything. But I chopped and changed jobs quite a bit because literally every – if I could earn an extra hundred grand a month

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_00] for me to look after my kids after I'd separated and gotten divorced, it would help. So things were really, really tight. My boys and I went through some really, really tough times. My mom and dad, unfortunately, passed on a long time ago. My mom is almost 42 years and my dad is 38 years ago. They passed.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_00] And my two sisters passed last year and the year before. So it's really only me and my boys left. And, yeah, I must say my boys because they're 36 and 31 at the moment. So they're grown men already. But my hunks, my superheroes. And, yeah, I know this is going to sound very arrogant.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_00] But, honestly, when I did my life coaching course, it's something that understanding and, Michael, also having listened to your story, especially your 9-11 situation with Rizal. And thank goodness for both of you surviving and helping all the others, leading all the others to safety.

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_00] So just understanding that each of us is our own superhero.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_03] Right.

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_00] And I know that sounds silly and cliched. But, honestly, you know, and, again, just a word of inspiration to especially single parents, not just single mothers, but single parents out there or single caregivers out there who are supporting families on their own, struggling. I take my hat off to you because I've been there. I never got involved again.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00] And so, you know, once but definitely twice shy. Not going to happen. But, yes, just no matter how tough it is, just keep going. Literally one day at a time.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_03] So when did you develop an attitude that reflects what you're just talking about? When did you decide that you needed to turn things around? Was there a particular moment? Was it sort of gradual? And how did you eventually decide you got to do things differently than what you were doing?

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00] Very good question, Michael. Thank you. So even in my marriage, you know, you constantly, unfortunately, with narcissists. And it's very much a situation of you start doubting because everything is wrong. You know, you constantly get told that everything is wrong with you. No matter how hard you try, it's never good enough. I mean, we've all heard it. We've all read so much about it.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_00] In reality, it is so destructive. You know, any kind of toxic relationship. And I've had this, unfortunately, in many corporate companies as well. Which is also, and I take ownership for that because it was also me. Because I allowed people to treat me the way that they did. I had always been taught to put others first.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00] And so even if it was somebody who, anybody who was in a position of authority or like with my husband, you know, I'm still a firm believer that the man is the head of the household. So for me, that respect is critical. And being able to stand up for yourself, I couldn't do that.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_00] And I felt that if I actually spoke up about how I was feeling or how this was hurting me or that I didn't agree with certain things that were happening, that I was being disrespectful to the people around me. Until eventually it got so bad, there were certain things, there were a couple of incidents that happened. And eventually the one morning, and as I say, I separated probably about six times in the seven years we'd been married.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00] And one of the times was almost nine months before we got back together. And then we had the second child and things were fine for about a year. And then all the same issues arose. And then one morning, so there was something that had happened the night before where my ex was trying to coerce me into doing something that I was really, really uncomfortable with. And I refused to do it.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00] And yeah, it ended up in a huge fight and all this kind of stuff. And the following morning I woke up and as I got out of bed in the morning and I looked up and I looked at myself in my mirror, was somebody had switched, flicked a switch. It was just that instant looking at myself going, you know what?

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00] You're not perfect, but nobody deserves to be treated like this, including you. And that morning I said to him, I was going to see a lawyer, it's far for divorce. And his response was, you wouldn't if you dare. And I said, well, I am. And I did. And three months later, to the day we were divorced and walked away with nothing.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00] And that's fine. So, yes. Then as through the struggles and everything that I then had with the kids and trying to manage with them and trying to provide a decent home and provide for them, constantly allowing myself to be bullied by and spoken to badly and just humiliated by managers in various companies instead of standing up for myself.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00] And gradually, my self-esteem and self-confidence was just zero. So, I kept on pushing myself harder. That's something also that single parents will know out there in the marketplace, how companies exploit single parents because they know that you're desperate for the job. And they'll lump more and more work on you and expect you to take on more and more and more and more and threaten you with your job and all that kind of stuff.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_00] I was also, I was retrenched three times, which was really, really tough. But through all of that was never the realization that I was part of the problem. You know, I was quick to complain, just to myself, complain about, oh, this person treats me so badly and that person treats me so badly. I didn't take ownership at all of the part that I had to play in that.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00] And I think purely because I was just too completely unaware of myself. So, only really when I did my life coaching course, I did a psychology degree as well. I started studying only when I was 38 already, when I started studying. And I did a psychological counseling degree. Purely because I wanted to, I would have loved to become a psychologist, but unfortunately, I didn't have the money to do that community.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_00] Community service and internship. But that gave me a very good understanding of the basic human psyche and how our brains work and how we think and all that kind of thing. And social norms and sociology and philosophy and all those things. But only really when I did my life coaching course in November 2019.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_00] And I was actually going through the program myself. But I had this complete breakthrough of, you know what? Yes. When they were doing all these things to me, I just let them do it. I didn't have the courage to actually stand up for myself. And eventually, in the last corporate company that I worked in, when I resigned from there, I was broken.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_00] It was emotionally probably almost worse than I was when I got divorced. But broken emotionally, physically, everything. And that realization that, you know what? This is almost, well, I ended up in hospital. I was in hospital for seven days. Threatening of brain aneurysm and my blood pressure and everything was skyrocketed. Well, it skyrocketed.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_00] And just at the point of just wanting to give up. Because what is the point? Life is just too hard. And then when I did the life coaching course, was that realization that, but Meryl, you allowed it to happen. And that for me was a huge sort of breakthrough, emotional breakthrough for me.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_00] Because in life, we're very quick. We're generally quite quick to blame other people for things. And not take ownership of things that we could have done differently. And even as a manager, it was something I always used to say to the teams that I managed is, you know, you've always got to be fair. You've always got to treat people with respect.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_00] You need to make sure that you always make people feel better than they were feeling before you started working with them or dealing with them. Or, you know, there's always a nice way. Even if you've got bad news to tell somebody or you need to point out that they've done something wrong, there's a nice way to do it. And you always do it in private and, you know, being respectful and all that kind of stuff. But nowhere...

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_03] Go ahead. Go ahead and finish.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_00] No way had anybody ever said to me, but Meryl, why are you letting them say, just do this? Why do you let them get away? We're treating you like this.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. What made you decide to go to study life coaching? Because that's clearly a whole different direction than what you had faced and done in the past. What made you decide in 2019 to start this whole idea of life coaching?

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_00] Well, it was actually quite ironic because after I did my psychology degree, life coaching only really started showing up in South Africa just after it's... Oh, I think it was probably only about... How long ago? Probably about 10, 12 years ago. Yeah. Did life coaching only sort of start showing its face in South Africa.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_00] And having done the psychology degree, as soon as I heard about life coaching, it was, oh, okay, what's that? And I went to a couple of talks on it and it sounded very interesting. And then just before COVID actually started, when I left this corporate company and I started my own travel company. And that was starting to pick up quite nicely.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_00] But two of my friends who didn't know each other were business coaches. And both of them had spoken about possibly doing a life coaching course. And I seen that a gentleman by the name of Arfine Khan was coming out from India. So he's actually British, but he does a lot of his coaching in India. Arfine was coming out to South Africa to do a talk on the Saturday afternoon.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_00] And I still said to them, well, why don't the three of us, you know, just come with the two of you to introduce you, both of you. And we can just go to his intro session together.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_03] I'm sorry, who was it that went with you?

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00] These two friends of mine who were the business coaches.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01] Got it. Okay.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_00] And, yeah, so they said, unfortunately, both of them had other commitments and they couldn't make it. So I said, okay, not a problem. I'll go. I'll attend and I'll tell you all about it after the event. And you can then decide whether you're interested in going ahead and doing the course. So off I went and promptly ended up signing up.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_00] Because even in his intro, it was, and the questions were, and again, you talk about that, was there a specific moment? In the talk, he was chatting about what life coaching is and it's very much more action-based than psychology and therapy and all this kind of thing. And he then played a video. And in the video, and it was, it was literally a split second.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00] In the video, the person that was talking said, at the end of the day, who's in control of your life? You or other people? And I realized I had had a manager in, it was 1999, who had said to me, he hardly knew me at all. I'd only been with the company about three weeks. And he said to me, Meryl, you need to run, and heaven only knows why.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00] I don't know why it came. But he called me into his office one morning and he said to me, I have a message for you. He said, I woke up this morning and I have a message for you. You need to get the, and he said, maybe this will make sense to you. He said, I don't know you. So I'm just relaying the message as I heard it. He said, you like a boat without any rudder. He said, in business? So the message is, you need to run your personal life the same way you run your business life.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_00] So in business, I'm very methodical and ordered and clear direction and off we go. And I know exactly what I need to do. In my personal life, it was literally because I think of all the things that I'd gone through. But again, looking back, that was my fault as well. Is I did. I literally just allowed the sea to toss me around wherever she felt like tossing me around.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_00] And I just followed.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_03] And it didn't sound like you were ready to hear his message.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_00] No. And I didn't really understand it. And I thought, well, that's weird. And I don't know where it's coming from, but okay. And watching that video, it was then as clear as day. And I thought, that's what Grant had been talking about is that direction. Is you know what? If you aren't in control of your life, you are going to allow yourself to be tossed all over the place.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_00] And ending up going in this direction for two minutes and then in that direction for two minutes because somebody else says go this way. And realizing that at the end of the day, nobody else is responsible for my life or for my choices except me. And that for me was very profound. And completely changed my life.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00] And it's something that, you know, when people talk about what is a transformation coach or even a life coach. So the transformation does come from the coach telling you what you must do with your life. We certainly don't have that right. But it's about teaching the person or asking probing questions for the person to start uncovering or discovering what's within them.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00] That can actually help them take control of their lives and live the life they want to live. It's learning not to get off track by being distracted by fancy things. Not material things, but just being distracted from what our goal is, what our end goal is.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_00] Whether that be looking after your family, whether it be working, whether it be relaxing or enjoying yourself or having fun with your friends, whatever it is. But realizing that everything that we do in life is or should be a conscious choice, not just whatever.

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_03] Did you have any time as you were studying and taking the life coaching course? Did you have any time where you sort of wondered, how can I be a life coach when everything has been happening to me and I've let it happen? Or did you decide, I've learned and I'm going to continue to learn and I want to help other people? What kind of was the process?

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_00] Definitely. I think also one of my frustrations has been that people continue to, and it's happened all my life, people continue to come to me for help. I tend to literally be, sorry, I'm going to stop saying literally. But people tend to turn to me often.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_00] A lot of people rely on me for almost like guidance for things or wisdom or whatever it is.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00] But during my life, all the things that have happened to me, and it's in my bio as well, is when, and I'm sure you've gone through this as well, when difficult things happen in our lives, there tends to be, even if it's for a very short moment, why me? Why is this happening to me? Why do I deserve for this to be happening to me?

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_00] And the simple question there is, well, why not you? And getting to realize as well, that is life. Life is not smooth sailing. And I think that really is one of the biggest challenges in life, and especially, I think, in my era and even before, especially with ladies. You know, my father was very, I don't know why you're worrying later on when I spoke to him.

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00] He still says to me, well, I don't know why you're worried about having a career, because you're just going to get married and have babies and that's your role. I really didn't know how to live life as an adult, how to take responsibility for anything. And everything that I've learned in my life has been through trial and error and struggling on my own.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_00] I've never, ever had a manager who has ever taken time to spend with me to actually upskill me or help me or teach me. Everything that I know is self-taught, except my coaching. But yes, that I want to help people.

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_00] The unfortunate thing is, and very, very frustrating part of it is, that I've discovered with the coaching, a lot of people are very happy to moan and whine, and whine with an H. They're very happy to moan and whine with an H. They're very happy to be able to do it, but they're not willing to do anything to change it.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_00] And that's a very big thing in coaching, is getting to realize that, again, it's about being in control of your life. I don't have much patience for people that for, and I have, I've even walked away from friendships. I'll see a friend of mine every single week, and every single week, the two hours that we spend together will be her complaining about exactly the same thing that she's been complaining about for the last 10 years.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_03] How do you teach people to get away from that?

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_00] Well, it's very difficult. And the honest answer is, if a person isn't coachable, so if the person doesn't really want to change their life, you have to walk away. Because you can't, especially with adults, you can't make them do something. So it's up to them, and that's where the tough love comes in.

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_00] And why coaching can actually be quite tough for both parties, both the coach and the client. Because it's like, let's talk about an athletics coach or a boxing coach. A boxing coach has to keep on saying to their people or their boxer that they're training, keep going, keep going.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_00] In the meantime, you can see that the person's got a great big gash on his eye and he's just about falling down. He's so exhausted. But you have to keep pushing them because that's how they get stronger and stronger. With people, when you ask them the questions, it's, no, no, no, seriously, I want to change this and I want to change that. But very often, most of the time, again, they're blaming other people.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00] So whether it's wives blaming their husbands, my husband doesn't do this and my husband doesn't do this. It's all his fault and he should be doing this. And when you then try saying to them, what about you? So what are you doing to try and change the situation? They'll immediately turn it around again and make it all about the other person's fault. So again, not willing to take responsibility.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_00] And with something like that, again, the other person, even if you go to marriage counseling or therapy, it's not necessarily going to change because both people then need to want to change and need to be able to sit down and have proper conversations and reasonable conversations, you know, not toxic conversations, to try and resolve the issues at hand.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_00] And if they aren't willing to do that, there's no point. And it's the same with me. Even in my marriage, the realization, very soon, I think it was about a year into the marriage, I still remember quite clearly thinking, and we do, you know, we raise as little girls, you're going to get married and you're going to be happy and you're going to live happily ever after. And life, unfortunately, is not that simple.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_00] I remember sitting there thinking, no matter how much I love him, I can't make him love me.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_00] And as much as I then tried to make it work, I realized afterwards, the relationship between us was becoming more and more and more toxic. And he wasn't going to change. And I had tried changing and becoming somebody that I really wasn't comfortable being to please him. And I just decided no more, wasn't willing to do it anymore.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_03] How long ago was that?

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_00] 1995.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_03] Okay. So that's 31 years almost.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_00] Okay.

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_03] It's a long time. It's a long time. What areas of coaching do you specialize in today?

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_00] So predominantly toxic relationships and recovering from trauma. So that trauma could be anything. Whether it's grief, you know, from loss of loved ones or a partner, or it could even be a pet that somebody has gone through this extreme loss that they traumatized from that.

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_00] Or longstanding trauma, you know, which is basically becomes a form of PTSD. It's called CPTSD. And, yeah, just trying to help people realize that no matter what has happened in their lives. So even look at you, you could have been, well, I'm quite sure you were,

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_00] completely traumatized with what happened in 9-11. I mean, that experience is you, no matter how, what word you use, there's no way that you can convey to other people the feelings, the emotions, the fear, the almost terror that you must have experienced in that process.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_00] Now, some people, the whole thing is either you can pull up and die after something like that happens because you're so traumatized, or you can try and overcome the trauma by going, you know what, this happened to me. Yes, it was traumatic. What did I learn through this process? And how can I use what I learned to move forward to still have a good life?

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_00] And how can I help other people who might have had similar experiences to move forward? So for me, that's the most important thing is after what happened in my marriage, I literally shrank away. I isolated myself from society. I would, obviously for work, I had to be around people. But in my personal life, I just isolated myself. It was me and my boys.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_00] And yeah, almost just in survival mode. Yeah. And I missed out on so much. And realizing that, you know, I want to help other people. I see so many people go, well, I'm too fat. I can't go swimming with all my friends and everything because I'm too fat. They're going to laugh at me. Or I don't want you to go out with my friends because they all wear fancy clothes and I don't have the money to wear fancy clothes.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_00] You know, so I'm not going to go out. So many things that we stop ourselves from allow, how can I say this? We almost don't allow ourselves to enjoy life and to have fun because we feel we should be different in some way. Or we're not good enough in some way. And we miss out on so much.

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_00] And we also do a disservice to other people who could grow from their association with us. And again, I know that possibly sounds a bit arrogant, but everybody needs somebody to be there to support them. You know, you talk about the teamwork, you know, and how important teamwork is.

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_00] Teamwork isn't only necessary in, you know, whether it's between you and the guide dogs or in teams, in office environments. Teamwork is families. Families are a team. And teamwork is a mother and her children or a father and their children. That's teamwork. It's just being with people and getting to understand the dynamics of people.

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_00] And we all need somebody to be there to support us. And it's not always just financial. It's just emotional support and complete acceptance.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_03] Right.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_00] And really, and I know people think I'm strange when I say, I do. I love everybody. I have an unconditional love for every single person on the planet and every animal on the planet. And I think as humans, we are the most incredible species.

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_00] We have this huge range of emotion that we've been blessed with. And yet you have people going, oh, I'm sorry, I mustn't show any emotion. Why not? You're human. You have those emotions for a reason.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_03] Do you think that there are more people today who are in need of or who require mental health support than in the past? Do you think that number has gone up?

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_00] Very, very, very definitely. Even the suicide rate is quite horrific. I was reading an article just a couple of weeks ago. Around the world, the suicide rate has risen dramatically in the age group from 15 to 29 and predominantly men or males.

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_00] But the suicide rate has gone up for 15 to 29-year-olds. It is now the fourth highest cause of death.

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_03] Why has it gone up? Worldwide.

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_00] Worldwide.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_03] Why has that happened?

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_00] I honestly think it's just because even if you look at medical conditions like ADHD and autism, I mean, how many more people nowadays do you hear about who are on the autism spectrum or are fully autistic or have ADHD? You've got adults being diagnosed now with ADHD.

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_00] And I honestly think it's just the world is so fast at the moment and it's just going to get even faster with AI. In that, you know, even with, and I'm sure we've all done it, you pick up your phone quickly to send somebody a message and all of a sudden you see, oh, there are four other messages and you get distracted. And then you're busy with that, put your phone down, and two minutes later you think, oh, but I was going to message so-and-so. And you pick up your phone again and you do it,

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_00] and then all of a sudden there's an email that's come through. All of these things vying for our attention all the time.

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_00] With varying messages, you know, conflicting messages, lack of guidance. I think quite, you know, and I hate to say it, but I do, and I know this is very old-fashioned. There will probably be a lot of people disagreeing with me. But COVID was actually, I mean, obviously it was incredibly traumatic for a lot of us and obviously we're very blessed to still be here.

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_00] But COVID for a while made the world slow down, and it was wonderful. People actually started realizing that life can be quite precious, and the people close to them because they were actually homebound with a lot of them during COVID, you know, during lockdown, and actually got to be able to rebuild the bonds with their families, you know, or loved ones.

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_00] And unfortunately, things have gone straight back to how they were before, if not even quicker. I think children now, it's not just adults getting overwhelmed with everything that's happening. Children as young as three, four years old are emotionally overwhelmed. I'm not quite sure why.

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_00] It's something that I really am concerned about.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_03] Do you think it might have to do with the fact that maybe their parents don't really know how to support them and help them through some of those things?

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_00] I think so. And I think it's also because who do parents actually talk to to try and get advice on how to help their children? Yeah. And I think as much as there's a lot to read on the internet, sometimes, as I say, it's difficult because you get conflicting information. I'm sure you remember our age group, you know, Dr. Spock.

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_00] And the different ways to raise your children. And things have changed so dramatically in some instances. I had my children. And some of it for the better. Some of it, yeah, I think is a little bit difficult. There's definitely something that's gone wrong. You know, when you look at even youngsters in detention in many, many countries around the world

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_00] who the sort of medical institutions or mental health institutions where these youngsters are supposed to go for treatment are so overflowing that they can't accommodate. Some of them are being even put in some of the adult prisons because there's nowhere else for them to stay.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_00] So, but if you look at things like the stabbings, especially in the UK, the gun issues in the States, you know, the mass shootings and all that kind of stuff, that is a societal thing. It's not just particular individuals. It's not just that there's something wrong with those 10 people or whatever in this year that are going to do mass shootings.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_00] It's a societal thing. The same with the suicide is why. And I was incredibly sad. Two weeks ago, I heard about one of our coaching ladies who had unfortunately, I couldn't reach her. And I discovered that she took her own life in November last year. And I was devastated by that because she was, she knew all of us were here to help her.

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_00] So if, you know, but again, we don't, you can't know what everybody's going through. And you need to have the courage to reach out to somebody. Right. And I know that's difficult because I've been in that situation where you try reaching out and people just don't know how to deal with it when somebody is not coping. So those kinds of, and it is, it's all about developing coping strategies that help you get through certain things. So that's what bulimia is.

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_00] It's a coping strategy. Any addiction, whether it's alcohol, whether it's drugs, is a coping mechanism. So people are reaching out for something that they need to get them through a tough time. And if there isn't a human there to support them, to be able to do that, they're going to reach for something else. And if it's something that is destructive or illegal, obviously that can be a major life-altering choice.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_00] So it's trying to get people to realize that before you reach for the bottle of gin or whiskey or whatever, or before you reach for the drugs, there are healthier coping mechanisms that you can use to get through those difficult times in life. And that's where the life coaching comes in is practical tools on how do you help yourself get through certain situations that you're going through in your life? How do you make wise decisions?

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_03] We tend to think that if we reach out, it's a sign of weakness. And it's not. It's not a sign of weakness if you are needing or are going through something to find somebody to talk with. And certainly, hopefully most people have friends. But then there are also coaches like you, excuse me, who people can reach out to and should reach out to because you've been through it. You've been there. You've done that.

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_03] You understand how to deal with problems. And most of all, as a coach, you're a good or should be a good listener.

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_00] Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's the whole thing is getting people to, our subconscious brain is so, so, so powerful. And so much of the information contained in there we aren't even aware of. So, it's when people have the opportunity to talk openly about the experiences.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_00] They're now also hearing themselves saying certain things, which helps them see it, see it in inverted commas, in a different light. Because now you're actually hearing yourself say certain things. And it's incredible because sometimes when you're talking to people, they'll be explaining something that happened in their lives. And I've had this happen to me too. You're talking about something that happened in your life and all of a sudden there's that, what?

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_00] That realization that, oh, hang on now. And you start realizing you've actually solved your own problem purely by talking it through. You know, because your brain is now hearing it, not just thinking it, it's hearing it. So, it's almost like envisaging it. And you see it in a different light.

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_00] And that's the thing, is coaching is all about the coach trying to help people look at things from a different perspective.

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, one of the definitions that I've heard of coaching and what a coach is, is a person who asks questions and guides. Your job isn't to solve the problem. Your job is to help through questions and interactions, guiding people so that they learn to solve the problem themselves.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_00] Exactly. Exactly. And that's also where the empowerment comes in because they then feel so good about themselves because, wow, actually, it wasn't so tough. I managed to sort of, you know, to resolve it myself.

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_02] Mm-hmm.

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_00] So, it's all about helping the person develop their, and I know it sounds cliched again, but their full potential is realizing that inner strength. And as I say, it's almost thinking about yourself as the superhero. You know, we've all done things in our lives, no matter who you are and no matter how insignificant it might be to somebody else.

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_00] We've all done things in our lives that you think to yourself afterwards, my goodness, how did I do that? Or, yeah, wow, I did that. How did I do that?

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_03] How do parents or how can parents best help learn to protect their loved ones, their youngsters from mental challenges?

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_00] I think by giving them undivided attention. It's not about the quantity of time they spend with their children or their youngsters. It's about undivided attention. It's about not being there, like being present, but not actually being there.

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_00] So, they might be physically in the presence of the child, but they're distracted either on their phone or watching TV or talking to another adult or somebody else. And the child is looking for attention. And especially for people that work full-time, I know it's difficult because they come back from a long, hard day at work. And all they want to do is just kick off their shoes and relax for a little bit and have some me time.

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_00] But as they walk in the door, they're bombarded by the kids and the rest of the family. And as their parent, either then to put boundaries in place and say, look, when I get home, I'm really tired and I just need 15 minutes on my own. And off you go to your room, go and have a nice shower, get changed, refresh yourself or whatever. And then when you come out, be there wholeheartedly.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_00] And I'll ask your tool, you know, we've also gotten away from having family dinners in the majority of homes where people used to sit and chat about their days. And phones should be put aside and people should be able to talk openly and share what happened in their days, including with the parents, because those are the only opportunities that youngsters get to learn what being an adult is actually all about. If you share your day with them as well.

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_00] A lot of adults also tend to think that there's no way they can actually talk to their children about challenges they might be having in their lives. Yes, you're not going to talk to them about intimate issues that you might be having. But if it's work issues and everything, it's actually quite good to talk about those things openly because children start understanding that the world is not this perfect, beautiful world out there,

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_00] that there are these problems they're going to come up against and they're problems that they already then start learning how to solve through mom and dad's experiences. Yeah. Which doesn't happen. So many parents, unfortunately, just don't actually talk to their children anymore.

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. So do you work with people and coach people from around the world or just in South Africa?

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. No, I'm open. I'm able to do, luckily, able to do virtual calls anywhere in the world. And yeah, I know it's not always as good as in-person coaching, but yeah, it's definitely far better than not having coaching at all. Yeah.

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_03] So if people want to reach out to you and they'd like to follow up after listening to this today, how do they do that?

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_00] Okay. So my contact number is plus 2779-520-4489. Or my email address is merrill, M-E-R-R-I-R-L-L, at the sorcerer. Oh, let me give you my email. It'll be easier. Just merrill, M-E-R-R-I-R-L, at merrills, M-E-R-R-I-R-L-S, dot co.ca.

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_03] I'm sorry. So merrill, at merrill, dot co.ca. C-A dot Z-A. Okay. Well, I hope people will reach out. We'll put the links in the show notes as well. And I hope that people will reach out if they are feeling adrift and so on.

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_03] I hope that they will take advantage of the fact that you were here and you have a lot of insights and clearly have a lot of experience that you have gone through. And now bring to being a life coach. And I think that's very valuable because you've been there. You've done that. And you've moved beyond it and now want to share that information with other people. So I hope that they will definitely follow up.

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_03] I'd like to thank you for being here and I'd like to thank all of you for listening. We really appreciate it or watching, whichever you happen to do. I'd love to hear your thoughts about today. Please feel free to email me at speaker, S-P-E-A-K-E-R, at Michael Hinkson, M-I-C-H-A-E-L-H-I-N-G-S-O-N dot com. And we'd really appreciate it if wherever you're listening, you give us a great review.

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_03] We love reviews and people who are interested in observing and coming and watching other podcasts or hearing podcasts love to read reviews that people have. So we really would appreciate it if you give us a review. And, of course, if you know of anyone who might be a good guest with a story, Meryl, including you, who you think ought to come on the podcast, we would really appreciate it if you would introduce us. We're always looking for more people and their stories. But with all that in mind, Meryl, I want to thank you again for being here.

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_03] This has been absolutely wonderful. And the hour sure passed in a hurry. So thank you very much for being here.

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_00] Thank you so much for having me, Michael. And viewers, thank you to our listeners. Thank you so much. You're welcome also. There's a 30-minute free call that you can have with me. No charge, no obligation. So please feel free to reach out to me. And Michael, again, an absolute pleasure being with you. Thank you.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_03] Do you have a website?

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_00] Yes, I do. It's just www.merils.co.za.

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_03] Okay, great. Well, thank you very much. This has been fun. And again, thanks for being here.

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_00] Thank you.

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_03] Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to michaelhingson.com and download my free e-book, Blinded by Fear.

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_03] It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening.

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_03] Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. Keep learning, keep learning, and keep learning, and keep learning.