A strong story can do more than sell a product. It can change how people see a brand, a problem, and even themselves. I talk with advertising and brand storytelling expert Park Howell about why our brains respond to simple problem-and-solution stories, how trust shapes buying decisions, and why your story should focus on your audience instead of you. Park shares the ABT storytelling framework, lessons from decades in advertising, and how one campaign helped drive major growth for Goodwill. We also explore AI storytelling, brand identity, human creativity, and why the best use of AI still requires a human voice. I believe you will find Park’s ideas useful whether you lead a business, market a brand, speak to audiences, or simply want to communicate with greater impact.
Highlights:
01:19 - Why every strong story starts with a problem that needs solving.
14:46 - How shifting the story away from yourself makes it more relevant to your audience.
19:55 - What one advertising campaign taught Park about the power of story structure.
30:25 - How the ABT framework turns a message into a clear, compelling story.
44:39 - How storytelling helped Park make a major career shift at age 55.
53:50 - Why finding key moments in your life can reveal the story worth telling.
About the Guest:
Park Howell is known as The World's Most Industrious Storyteller, having helped purpose-driven brands grow by as much as 600 percent through the power of strategic narrative. With over 40 years in brand creation, including 20 years running his own advertising agency Park and Co, Park was named Advertising Person of the Year in 2010 by the American Advertising Federation of Metro Phoenix. The following year, his agency was recognized among the Top 10 Impact Companies in Arizona by the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce.
Park is an EMMY Award-winning storytelling strategist and the founder of the Business of Story, a proven platform based on his 10-step Story Cycle System to clarify your story, amplify your impact, and simplify your life. His popular weekly Business of Story podcast is ranked among the top 10 percent of downloaded podcasts worldwide, and Feedspot.com named it the number one business storytelling podcast for 2022.
In 2020, Park published Brand Bewitchery: How to Wield the Story Cycle System to Craft Spellbinding Stories for Your Brand, which teaches readers how to use three proven narrative frameworks to captivate audiences and convert customers. He followed this with The Narrative Gym for Business in 2021, a practical 75-page guide on using the ABT framework—And, But, Therefore—to make all business communications compelling and persuasive.
Most recently, Park launched the StoryCycle Genie, an AI-powered platform that helps business leaders craft lucrative brand story strategies in minutes rather than months, using his proven Story Cycle System that has grown brands by as much as 600 percent. The platform democratizes strategic storytelling expertise, making it accessible to businesses of all sizes.
Park consults, teaches, coaches, and speaks internationally, having guided hundreds of brands and developed thousands of leaders in organizations including Dell, The Home Depot, Hilton, Cummins, Walgreens, Banner Health, and the United States Air Force. A graduate of Washington State University, he combines his degrees in communications and music composition to help leaders excel through the stories they tell.
Ways to connect with Park**:**
About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT\&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/
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Transcription Notes:
Michael Hingson 00:04
What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi, everybody! Wherever you happen to be welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. I am your host Mike Hingson, and our guest today is Park Howell, who has been in advertising for quite a number of years. So he's going to talk about a lot of that kind of stuff, and I think it'll be fascinating. He's been Advertiser of the Year in the Arizona area, and he's just done a lot of different kinds of things over the years that will be interesting to hear about. I suspect that you'll all find what he has to say pretty fascinating, and he has done a lot with helping people and companies improve their brands, as you'll see. Anyway, I'm not going to give it away. Where would the fun be in that? So, Park, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Well, Mike, thank you so much for having me. It's a true honor. Well, thank you. I'm I'm honored that you're you're here as well. Well, why don't we start? I'm I'm going to start. I usually like to start by asking people to talk about their their kind of early life, and I'll do that in a minute. But I want to start with something else. What is advertising? I'll ask for an opening question.
Park Howell 02:08
The desperate act of selling something. How about that? It if you've got you know if you're going to sell something out there, you got to let the world know what that is. Of course, I had a mentor of mine, Sandy Peterson, when I was just growing up in the ad world, and he often said to me, "He said, 'Hey, Park, even 2000 year old churches ring their bells every Sunday morning to let their people know that the doors are open, and that to me is advertising that you've got to be able to communicate and tell stories, share stories about your brand and your world that connects from your target audience's point of view to solve a problem they have. You know, every story is about a problem. Without a problem, without conflict, you have no story, and that is the essentials of advertising: is what is the problem you are solving for whom, and how do you do it better than anyone else? Yeah, and I think the the key to that is stories, and and so many people just don't understand why storytelling and having stories is such an integral and important part of everything that we do. Yeah, well, if you think about it, you know everyone is is fearing this existential crisis of AI, the most remarkable technology our brilliant brains have been able to create. But if you think about it, and you go back 75,000 years when our ancestors were navigating and surviving the savanna. They were using the technology of storytelling in the way of rebel storytelling, cave paintings, and so forth, to be able to not just evolve but become you know the Homo sapiens storytelling apes we are today. So that particular structure, that technology of storytelling, speaks specifically to our very primal limbic brain, where all of our real decisions are being made, and that brain has not changed appreciably in 75,000 years, even though our neurofrontal cortex has enabling us to create what we have today in technology, and that's why I get asked this a lot. You know, they'll say, "How is AI changing storytelling? And I said, "Well, it's not. Storytelling is fundamentally the same. It is changing the storyteller and how we share those stories with the world. And I think we need to be careful with AI because right now we're sort of on a cusp. So part of AI can be very accurate. Sometimes it's not, but the reality is that AI is not going to replace the human being storyteller and.
Michael Hingson 05:00
So it's really important that although we can use AI to help, we still have to be the ones that are in charge and tell the stories.
Park Howell 05:08
Well, the fundamental structures or algorithms of storytelling are the exact same as they always have been: setup, problem resolution. That is your, you know, Kurt Vonnegut, famous American writer, said, you know, a story is about a man falls in a hole, a man gets out of a hole. It needn't be about a man, and it needn't be about a hole. People love that story. Yeah, that is so true. So that's something that is innate in us human beings. You can certainly teach, and we have AI how to use those frameworks, but AI can never replace the actual human experience that you're talking about.
Michael Hingson 05:50
How often do we refer to the TV show Lassie, and everybody keeps thinking that sometime Timmy fell into the well, and he never did once,
Park Howell 06:00
and Lassie was there to pull them out, right? Yeah,
Michael Hingson 06:03
but but Timmy never did fall in the well. But anyway, whatever. Well, well,
Park Howell 06:08
Mike, our our brains are problem solution brains. I mean, again, that primal limbic brain of ours is all about survival. That is our survival center, and whenever we're buying anything, it yeah, a lot of times it's driven by ego. But emotionally, first and foremost, it's driven by what problem are you solving? How are you going to help me survive this problem and get me out of this mess faster than anyone else? Just the other day, went in for a haircut. My hair was atrocious. The longer it got, the worse my original haircut was, and I had a problem. And I went in and sat with a young guy by the name of Ray down at V's Barber Shop in North Phoenix, and in you know in under 30 minutes he got me cleaned up, looking my best again, and he solved a basic primal problem. I want to look good. I want to be socially acceptable. I don't want to look like a jerk. That's the problem solution dynamic, right? It
Michael Hingson 07:09
is. You know, one of the most interesting and compelling stories I can think of, and I think people mostly forget about it today, but was back in the early 1980s when we had the Tylenol crisis, when somebody planted cyanide in one bottle of Tylenol in a restaurant in a in a drugstore, and the thing that that happened was that within like a day, the president of the the company that manufactured Tylenol went on the air in public and said, "We are going to pull every bottle of Tylenol off the shelves until we verify that there are no other problem bottles of Tylenol. And by doing that, I mean he first of all he he taught us a basic business lesson that we really ought to take more to heart, which is you confront problems and you are very upfront with with the with the problem and what you're going to do. But it was just such a compelling thing that he did. He said that, and then they did, and eventually, then of course everything went away, and because there were no other bottles, but still, he just he handled it in such an incredible what an incredible way! What a what a great feat of advertising, if you will.
Park Howell 08:31
Well, Mike, if we don't have trust with our target audiences, then we have nothing. Yeah, and so yeah, they had a major problem of trust when that happened, it wasn't their fault necessarily. Some lunatic planted that, but the fact that they didn't have you know secure caps and so forth, it revealed a problem in the industry. But he was very smart in taking immediate action and doing what he did to help maintain that trust for Tylenol, and hopefully build on that trust over time. That we are here for you, and we will protect you in every possible way we can,
Michael Hingson 09:09
because that's who we are. And and of course, it did lead to changes. Now we do have more secure caps and and other things like that. So there were changes in the industry. It's unfortunate that they had to happen, but understand it, and so we now have what we have. But but it still is just kind of one of the most dramatic business cases and and if you will advertising cases that I can think of.
Park Howell 09:36
Well, it's interesting too because it underscores a fundamental way we storytelling Homo sapiens make sense to the world, and we will tend to remain in status quo as the over-the-counter pain reliever industry was, and not securing those caps because they never had a problem. So why change them? They never anticipated that to be a problem, and then what happened? A problem happened. You know, a big hole. This, you know, Tylenol fell in, as did the entire industry, and that's what shakes people out of status quo. Status quo will kill us faster than anything if we are not continuing to evolve and move forward.
Michael Hingson 10:16
No one anticipated that there would be a group of people who would deliberately fly fully loaded with jet fuel airplanes into the World Trade Center until it happened, and I still, having read all the reports, I am not at all convinced that we would have been able to figure it out, even if every government department was communicating together, which they still don't know how to do, but the bottom line is that we didn't anticipate it. We did make buildings that were flexible. We did a lot. I think we did all that we could do at the time, but by the same token, nobody anticipated it until a bunch of people got together and worked and and did what they did and brought the world almost to its knees, and and I hate to say it, but I talk about trust and teamwork a lot, and talk about teamwork. The 19 hijackers kept their mouths shut. They they did what they set out to do to a large degree, although I don't even know whether they thought that they were going to cause the buildings to collapse. But still, they they did what they did, and it also has caused so many other positive things to happen since. But nevertheless, again, nobody thought it was going to happen, and so we had the situation that we had, yep, yep, that's exactly right. And I mean, you lived through it, thank God. But boy, being right in the heart of all of that, what an impact it had on your life! It certainly caused me to to change what I do. So now, instead of selling computer hardware and managing a hardware sales team, as I tell people I get to sell life and philosophy and and travel the world and be a keynote speaker and it's a lot of fun and it's not the and it's not the story of getting out of the World Trade Center nearly as much as it is the story of how I got there all the things that led up to it and the things that I learned that allowed me to be able to survive getting out of the World Trade Center, and unfortunately, one of the the challenges that that I continue and blind people in general continue to face is that sighted people think that you're less of a person if you can't see, and it is really a challenge to get people to recognize that's not true, and you're really misassessing the situation. But it is what we face.
Park Howell 12:45
Yeah, no doubt. And you are a great voice and advocate for your community to go and demonstrate that to people. It's like, all right, so I've lost my sight, but now let me re, you know, reframe my life and my message to the world, or just look at the impact you're having on people.
Michael Hingson 13:02
Well, and and you know the reality is, I was I've been blind my whole life, and and the the the idea is that it is important that we learn that blindness isn't the problem; it's the misconceptions that so many of us face at the hands of others that that tends to be the real difficulty. So we ought to maybe get your help to do better advertising. I don't know. We'll have to see. Well, tell us a little about. I will go back to it now. Tell us a little about kind of the early part, growing up and all that.
Park Howell 13:30
Yeah, I grew up in the Seattle area, just north of Seattle, in a place called Bothell Woodenville area. Ah, one of seven kids, and we were all born within nine years of each other, so we were quite a pack of of crazed Northwesterner little kids. We had a lot of fun. Great parents took us on lots of adventures and always encouraged us to do what we always wanted to do. And one of the things I wanted to do at a very young age was learn how to play the piano because my grandmother Mabel, who played the piano like nobody's business, and it just always blew me away, and so they gave me piano lessons, and I, as a little kid, just started writing these little ditties, these little songs, and whatever, and kept writing more of them, and just had fun with it. Ended up getting a degree in music composition in theory, but figuring Mike that I probably starved to death as a composer. At the same time, I also got a degree in marketing in you know communications, and it's really you know blessed me. My whole musical background has played a very important role in me over my 40 years in the branding world on writing, finding the theme to a brand story, introducing interesting characters and twists to the plot that you do in music writing, just as you do in storytelling. And here I am, you know, 40 years later, I ran my own ad agency for 20 years in Phoenix, but. I pivoted away from that 2016 just to simply coach, speak, and teach people leaders how to use stories to have the impact in the world that they want. So I find it ironic. I come full circle where I studied music composition in theory, and now I teach brand storytelling composition in theory, wow, and and clearly it is it's a it's an interesting challenge. Do you find many people who, at least at first, resist this whole concept of telling stories that they're just not used to it and they resist it? Not as much anymore, and a lot of people will ask me, you know, how do you sell people on storytelling? And I tell them I don't. The people that hire me are already sold on story. They know how powerful it is. They just don't know how to do it. And when I come in and find someone very resistant to storytelling and whatever, I'm like I respect that. That's cool. Keep doing your features lists and your you know functions lists and that sort of thing, and see where it gets you. Because Mike, one of the two true story truths that I talk about is number one is your story is not about you. It's always about your audience and what's in it for damage. Story truth number two is your story is not about what you make, but what you make happen in people's lives. So those that are resistant to storytelling are focused on themselves and communicating about what they make, and just assume you will arrive at the marvelous conclusion that gee, what you make is for me, where storytelling is what you make happen, and that word happen is so important because it speaks to the outcomes, the activity, the momentum of the story that you tell that that describes the impact you have on them, and I think you said something that's really key. It's not about you; it's about what you make happen, and and it's about the audience. I know as a speaker, I learned really early on, fortunately, that it's not about me, and that's also partly why I say it's not so much about escaping from the World Trade Center, it's all the other things that that led up to it and have happened since. But it isn't about me as a speaker. It's about
Michael Hingson 17:30
what I do to connect with the audience and what the audience needs from me. And I have to learn that so that I can best tell my story in a way that will be relevant to
Park Howell 17:42
them. Yeah, Mike. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got is if you are speaking, and before your presentation could be to a small group of people, could be a large auditorium. If you are really stressed out, freaked out, major butterflies. A few butterflies are normal to keep you on your toes, but if you are really stressing out, it's because your ego has taken over and you're making that presentation about you. As soon as you make that shift to say, no matter what happens on that stage, if I totally forget where I am, if I fall off the front of the stage, if I go into a coughing attack, it doesn't matter because I am in service to them. As long as I can impart wisdom to my audience that they can leave with at least one takeaway, then that makes all the difference. Your your butterflies go away, and you're like, I'm just here to help.
Michael Hingson 18:36
And and that's exactly right. And I tell that to people when I'm discussing coming to to speak at events for them, is it's not about me. My job is to be a guest, to be a servant, and I need you to tell me the kind of messaging that you need if you have anything like that, and we'll put it together. But I'm here to do what you need to make your conference more successful than it might otherwise be, and that's that's my job, and I can do that, and I know I can do that because I know how people react to the story, and the reason I love to give in-person presentations more than virtual presentations is that when I'm telling the whole story, including growing up and all that, I've learned how audiences typically react to different things that I
Park Howell 19:30
say, and if I'm not hearing the reactions that I expect, then I have to change something around to deal with it because I want to draw them in. But at the same time, I I do know that typically audiences are interested in what I have to say, and as long as I make that interesting for them, then we're good. Yeah, without a doubt, and you know it goes back to even your first question about what. Is advertising. Advertising is that storytelling that you make it about your audience, whether they're reading a Facebook ad, or watching a TV commercial, or listening to a radio commercial, or reading a white paper that you wrote. If you take the approach of making it about them, and I've got a framework, I'd be happy to share with you and your audience on how to do that, then the impact of all of your communications goes through the roof. If
Speaker 1 20:32
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Michael Hingson 21:04
When did you realize? Was there a moment that you kind of had this aha moment that said storytelling is wasn't just a creative technique, but was really part of the whole fundamental process?
Park Howell 21:17
Yeah, it you know something that I had thought about early in my career, I just was intuitive about it, innate, and all the great ads I loved always had story. But I never thought to myself, "Boy, that's a great story. I think that's a great ad. And something happened in 2003 when I was running my ad agency, Park and Co. in Phoenix. We were working with Goodwill. Now, Goodwill Industries-they're a bunch of franchises all around the country-and we were working with the Phoenix franchise. They had 24 stores at the time. It was a big account. They were going to spend spend well over a million dollars with us to help them with their marketing. And we went out, we toured all their stores, and we said the first things you need to do is clean it up. It just they don't smell great. You got to have more inventory out there before you do any marketing. Get your operations together, and they were smart. They listened to us and they did. And then we created an advertising 32nd commercial campaign. Two spots in that campaign. One of them polled unbelievably well, Mike. I mean, same store sales a month after the campaign started running went up 42% with this one commercial in the campaign. The second commercial in the campaign didn't poll at all. It just didn't work. It fell flat, and I sat there at my agency, scratching my head, and said, "Why did this ad work so well, and this other one, Buckus, got nothing out of? In fact, the very first ad we created, we won an Emmy award for because it was so well produced and worked so well. Well, when I started studying true story architecture and storytelling, I'm like, oh my goodness! That first spot is a perfect setup, problem resolution story. We had fun with it, kind of you know sharing a real world experience. And in fact, the goodwill said you were you were telling the story that we feel like you were going to be making fun of our customers when in reality we weren't. We were calling them out. We were saying, "Listen, we know you're a closet shopper, and you might even be embarrassed to shop at Goodwill to go and find your treasures, but don't let that stop you. That played and pulled in. You know, increased sales by 42% The other one was just kind of this creative, clever spot that we were very proud of as an agency, but it never ever landed with our audience because it wasn't speaking to them, nor did it follow a story structure. Now, again, that first one was just an intuitive, innate story structure in there, and when I started studying it, I'm going. Oh, let's follow this structure with all of our commercials, you know, all of our work moving forward. And then I did a deep dive with Hollywood to truly understand why does this structure work in our human brains. And when I started studying, then that took over my life. I was so fascinated by it. Again, I think it was my music composition theory background where I was fascinated as to why does music work on us and what are the algorithms that work better than others. That I was now enthralled with storytelling. What are the algorithms, the story structures that work better than anyone else. That was my awakening back then.
Michael Hingson 24:45
What have you discovered about storytelling that traditional advertising doesn't do? That has in turn made you so successful. I think you're kind of alluding to it, but I gather that what you do is a little bit different than. Oftentimes, what we see in the advertising world. Well, I would say advertising world is in decline. Just watching the Super Bowl
Park Howell 25:08
over the weekend, I could not tell you one of those commercials that I thought was any good at all. It just seemed like a bunch of creative noise out there, and yet our brains still fundamentally lean into and make meaning with the you know set up problem resolution story structure, and yet it seems like the ad world has completely abandoned it, and makes no sense to me. If you compare advertising today back to the 60 s, 70 s, 80 s, 90 s, even you will see a marked difference. And today, it's more wallpaper noise in abundance. Where back then it was much more curated storytelling. Fewer people were doing it, fewer channels to expose you to it, and they just had a much greater impact. So I always say, if you want to hack through the noise and hook into the hearts of your audiences that emotional center where they actually make their decisions, their buying decisions, then share a story in a structure that's been around for 75,000 years. That is what overcomes this technology that is just bombarding us with slop today. What I find really fascinating, in part, about what you just said, and I didn't get to watch the Super Bowl. I was flying back from freezing in Delaware on Saturday, but yeah, it was 60 mile an hour winds and it was 17 degrees. It was it was so cold that
Michael Hingson 26:44
that my guide dog Alamo didn't even want to go outside and do his business when the wind was up so high. We walked out. We went 10 feet, and he just turned around. I'm not going out there, brother. You stay out here if you want, but I'm going in. But but later it worked okay. But still, I didn't see coming up to the Super Bowl any major discussion, as we've seen in past years about a lot of the Super Bowl commercials and so on. And there hasn't there hasn't been much discussion of it all this year about it, which I find interesting. And of course, what you're saying kind of verifies and justifies that. Yeah, yeah, they spent. big money producing big time spots that just left me, anyways, very flat. I'm like, what,
Park Howell 27:30
what's going on here? It's you know, I, you know, it's ironic humor, goofy stuff, whatever, and that's fine, but it does not play to our meaning making limbic buying brain. It just doesn't.
Michael Hingson 27:42
Have you ever done a Super Bowl commercial?
Park Howell 27:45
No, never had one, huh? That would be fun. It's rarefied air to be able to do one of those, but no. Most of my work was in the B 2b world, coming out of Phoenix. Some some national accounts, a couple global accounts, but nothing to the level of Super Bowl. You know,
Michael Hingson 28:01
well, maybe we need to advocate for a switch.
Park Howell 28:05
Well, I'm kind of out of that world. I am much more of a story consultant now to work with teams and agencies and leaders and so forth. On all right, show me what you got, and let's figure out how can we make it better, if not way better.
Michael Hingson 28:22
Yeah. Well, and and and hopefully you'll have some significant influences in that. You said that you've helped some companies increase their brand by 600% How do you measure that?
Park Howell 28:36
Yeah. Well, they measured it, and so that was Clinica Adelante, a 33-year-old community health center in Phoenix, Arizona. At the time, this was back in 2009, 2010. They were their business model was coming under immense fire with immigration. With they were really working with farm workers out in the West Valley farms were getting bladed over with big subdivisions, and their their basic clientele was going away, and so they needed to attract and maintain their core mission of of making healthcare sustainable and available to anyone, regardless of your ability to pay, but in order for that to happen, they had to bring in regular insured patients to help pay the bills. Which means they had to attract even better doctors so that people would move from their traditional healthcare into Clinica Adelante. And we told that story. We changed the name because there was a fear that Clinica Adelante was a little bit too, you know, Hispanic for. I'll just be honest with you, you know, the white folks to come there, but we kept Adelante because that means advancement, moving forward, becoming, and you know, in in Spanish. So it became. Adelante Healthcare, and we branded it all around sustainable healthcare for all. And they were one of the first big community health community groups to really embrace green healthcare, sustainability in operations, sustaining the ability to get healthcare, and then sustaining the individual health of each one of their people that came in, and so how they measured that is they looked at the growth of their doctors, and they went from having just a couple clinics into 12 clinics, and the new ones that they added were all leed certified sustainable clinics. They then looked at the growth of the practitioners came in their administration, the growth of their actual patients that came in, and across the board over the course of six years they grew by 600% Wow! Avensate to Foya at the time when she's no longer their CEO, she was the one instrumental in building all this growth. She told me on my business of story podcast that she goes. We would never have grown that way had you not helped us get our overarching brand narrative in place and taught us how to tell the story to the world to attract those top tier practitioners, to attract the Anglo community that was ensured that we're going to come in, and then to attract national attention on their sustainable healthcare model that brought them even more cred. So yeah, they were looking at the measurement was purely by practitioners and then actual patients coming in.
Michael Hingson 31:36
Well, and and clearly it worked.
Park Howell 31:39
Yeah, yeah, very effective.
Michael Hingson 31:41
Tell us about something that you talk about the ABT network framework.
Park Howell 31:47
Yeah, and this is one of the most basic structures I teach. In fact, I call it the DNA of storytelling because you get this three-word structure down, and yeah, it sounds simple, but it takes a little practice. Then all of your messaging will be way more impactful, way more engaging, and it's called the and but therefore or NABT narrative framework. And here's the way it works very quickly. It's three sentences. The first one is your and statement of agreement. You want to identify your audience again, placing them at the beginning of the story. Describe what they want relative to your offering. They may not even know what you have to offer yet. You're foreshadowing that, and why is it important to them? So, who's your audience? Where they want, and why is it important to them? Raising the stakes with that. Why is it important to them? Then you introduce the but statement of contradiction, the problem. But you're frustrated, you're concerned, you're overwhelmed. You follow that with a negative emotion because you're speaking to their emotional heart, right? Because of this problem that's keeping you from getting what you want, therefore, then you follow that. Therefore, it's a positive emotion. Imagine what it's going to feel like when you get this by doing such and such with us. Your brand, your call to action doesn't come in until the second clause in the third sentence, which is your therefore statement of consequence, and if you like, Mike, we could build one really quick just to show all of your listeners how to do it, and let's do it for your show. All right, and I'm going to make some notes on my end because I'm going to ask you a couple questions. Do you want to do that?
Michael Hingson 33:39
Sure, why not?
Park Howell 33:40
It'll take about five minutes.
Michael Hingson 33:42
I'm flexible, so my tell me who is your number one audience for this show. I think the the the the audience is is pretty eclectic overall because we don't have a specific theme that the podcast deals with. So I would say that the audience is is composed primarily of people who are curious, who want to get life lessons, to learn how to to to do things better, and to find ways to move forward in life without as much fear as we typically encounter in our world.
Park Howell 34:25
All right, so let's dig down a little bit deeper. And you're in sales, so you know this: that it's great to have an eclectic audience, but the Pareto principle always comes into play. That means that 80% of your audience is usually made up of 20% of your listeners or one target audience. If that is true for you, and you are really even though it's eclectic, I get that. But who are you really speaking to? Even though you're attracting in a lot of others, who's your.
Michael Hingson 35:00
Are they professionals? Are they, you know, non-professionals? Or is it for speaking gigs? What What is it? I would say that to a very large degree, it's professionals, and I know that that there are also a number of people who are curious to to hear me because I am a speaker, and some of them have have have brought us in as a result of the podcast. But I think we're dealing primarily with more of a professional-oriented audience that wants to hear ways that they can do things better, and they love the fact that we have a lot of general, different kinds of categories, rather than one specific thing that every episode goes towards. But it's all about trying to figure out how they can use the things that they hear each week to make themselves and their businesses or their world better.
Park Howell 36:00
Okay, so that's the curious professional who want to learn how to do things better, and if they they listen weekly, they are going to be exposed to an eclectic group of guests that have all achieved a certain amount of success in their individual area.
Michael Hingson 36:21
Right,
Park Howell 36:22
that fair enough?
Michael Hingson 36:23
I think that's fair.
Park Howell 36:24
So that would that might be your statement of agreement. You know, you want to learn how to do things better, and if you tune in to the unstoppable mind, that we will, you will learn from some of the most eclectic leaders in the world, so that you can have the impact in your career and on other people that you seek. All right, science,
Michael Hingson 36:48
good, right?
Park Howell 36:48
Okay, but let's introduce a problem because I don't actually want to introduce your show quite yet. I just was kind of getting that sort of out in my mind. But what are they? What what's a negative emotion that that they are are experiencing because they don't typically have access to these you know sort of eclectic minds. Are they frustrated? Are they concerned? Are they?
Michael Hingson 37:11
I think I think there is a a level of frustration and concern, but I also think that there is a lot of fear. We talk about subjects like disabilities. We talk about subjects like AI, and I think that, to a large degree, those are things that people don't understand very well, and so they're afraid of them. They're afraid of trying different kinds of things where they can use some of the the the concepts to improve what they do, so I think that there is there is a level of fear that more people have than than people who don't, and so they come into the podcast with the idea that well I don't know what I'm going to hear this week, and so something comes up on AI or disabilities, or or even advertising, and and people fear, oh, there are just too many problems, or it's going to be too expensive to fix, or it's not going to help me in what I do, which is something that, of course, you see. So I think that fear is is probably a good overarching concept that people deal with.
Park Howell 38:22
Okay, so we've got the emotion, negative emotion of fear. Now let's add the problem that's creating that fear. Because of what? You're fearful because of lack of knowledge in these areas, or
Michael Hingson 38:37
I would say so. I think it's more fear of a lack of knowledge, and societal norms have said do it this way, and a lot of times on this podcast we hear that that's not the way to that that isn't correct. But I think that a lot of it is societal, and a lot of it is just plain when societal is is guilty of that as anything, but it's a lack of knowledge.
Park Howell 39:05
Okay. Then by listening, let's move on to the therefore. Just writing here the therefore statement of consequence. Therefore, what will be their positive state by listening to your show. You know, imagine what you're going to feel like, or what is the positive state?
Michael Hingson 39:28
The positive state is that they're going to hear things and and encounter people who talk about a lot of the the very same things that they've been feeling, but who have learned how to overcome or deal with issues, and who have, as a result, become more successful and more confident in in their world. And and the reality is, I think that most everyone who comes on the the podcast has a story to tell about challenges they faced. And they talk about what they did to overcome it, and how it has helped them grow and improve themselves as a result.
Park Howell 40:11
Interesting. Okay, so this is good, and this is the way an ABT always comes together. You just kind of formulate your thoughts. If you were to sum up this story that you're sharing with me right now, as we create the ABT, and you could give it one word that becomes your story theme. What would that word be?
Michael Hingson 40:32
Unstoppable.
Park Howell 40:34
Okay. So you want to become unstoppable,
Michael Hingson 40:37
right? And I don't mean that in a negative sense or in an egotistical sense, it it it really is a a competence thing. But unstoppable, I would say, is a is a good term to use.
Park Howell 40:51
All right, excellent. So now again, I'm just kind of you know I'm free, right? I'm freely working here. So I'm going to just say here, folks. This is how you do it. Mike has given us a ton of great information, and you've just seen how I've kind of pulled that out of him. And I've, for my mind, I'm the outside looking in because I don't know his business or brand that well. It gave me a number of different threads to work from, and when I have that, then I ask myself, what's the one story theme? You know, name of the show, so it's be unstoppable. So I'm going to want to introduce that right up top, and it's going to come down to what we call the conversational ABT first, just to get our singular problem solution set up. And this, when I say conversational ABT, it's very vacuous. It's very simple, just to make sure we've got the right problem solution lever in there, and in this case, you want to be unstoppable, but you don't feel unstoppable right now. Therefore, we're going to help you become unstoppable by listening to our show. Now, granted, that is very vacuous, but is that essentially the problem solution dynamic that we're dealing with, I think so. If you were standing in front of a group of 5000 people speaking as you do, and they don't know who you are or why you're there, what you're going to talk about, and you could just start your your speech with, "You all want to be unstoppable, right? But you don't feel unstoppable right now. Therefore, over the next 60 minutes, I'm going to show you how to become unstoppable. Yes, it's redundant, but boy, everybody in the room knows what you're talking about, and they're
Michael Hingson 42:32
going to pay attention.
Park Howell 42:33
They're like, "Thank you, I've got a theme. I've got a singular theme that I'm going to focus on. So now let's take that in and build out a little bit bigger, and but therefore, so it becomes more of a story, more of a talking foundation that you can build from. So you can say, as a curious professional, you want to learn new things so that you can be unstoppable in your career, in your life, and with the impact that you're making in the world, but you're fearful, maybe even frustrated, because there are so many things like, you know, disabilities and the existential crisis of AI and other things that you feel like are holding you back, because you don't have a place to go and hear from people that have overcome these sorts of things. Therefore, imagine your abundant mindset growing and your unstoppability taking over when you start listening to my show, where I introduce you to an eclectic array of professionals from around the world that have overcome great obstacles to to find tremendous success, and will show you how to do the exact same thing. There you go. So again, I was kind of vamping on that, but you can see you set it up. You identify the audience. What do they want to become unstoppable? But why don't they currently have it? Because they don't know where to turn to learn about how do you overcome things like disabilities and the existential crisis of AI. Therefore, put your mind at ease. Let's replace that fear with an abundance mindset and learn from you know the people that we we host on the show. So I would share that with anybody out there, and that's what I'd ask them to do. The breakout is write down who's your number one audience, what do they want relative to your offering, and why is that important to them? But why don't they currently have it? What's the problem standing in their way? Therefore, how are you going to help them achieve it? Yeah, and that's a great explanation of the ABT method, which I love. And I didn't invent it; I learned about it from Dr. Randy Olson back in 2013. He's a Harvard PhD evolutionary biologist. Gives up 10 years ago's to film school in his mid 30s at USC. Graduates, produces writes, directs, and produces three movies on climate change and global warming. But the body of his work is about taking this basic framework of the ABT and teaching scientists and academics how to make their complex messages simple and compelling, and what I've learned from Randy over the years of working with him directly on this is the ABT has been around literally since the beginning of storytelling. He didn't invent it either. We are just revealing it to the world and say this is how you engage with that storytelling monkey sitting across from you. Yeah, which is which is cool. Well, you've you have I'm sure had situations where you use the ABT method in your own life to kind of reframe a story that that help you become stronger or more unstoppable? Can you cite an example of that? Yeah, I can tell you. It was back in September of 2015, and I had been running my agency at that time for about 20 years, and I just did not enjoy the advertising agency world anymore. It was got overrun by technology and digital marketing, and I thought I was getting the creativity sucked out of it. And my first thing was like, how do I fix this? And I found that storytelling was really the way to go. And it was we were very successful with it for 10 years, and my agency was growing. But I didn't care to be in an agency anymore. I wanted to teach people how to do it. And I remember waking up one morning with a total pit in my stomach, and the ABT essentially was, Park, you're an accomplished advertising professional, and you've got you know an amazing agency and team, but you are looking to make a bigger impact in the world than you can just simply do with your agency.
Park Howell 47:02
Therefore, at the age of 55, you have to take a leap of faith, wind down your agency, start the business of story, and follow your true passion of consulting, teaching, coaching, and speaking on the power of story the world over. That essentially was my new mantra. That was my ABT. And what did you do? I wrapped up my agency by the end of 2015, 2016, January one. I launched the business of story. It was nice because it was kind of an extension or an off ramp of what I had already been doing. It wasn't like I was completely changing careers and industries. I just saw a new way forward to have impact in the world through communication, not just being an ad agency, but now being a teacher. And I mean, I went on right after that, or actually leading up to that, while I was still running Park and Co. Arizona State University came to me in 2013, and they saw the success I was having as an agency in the sustainability world with storytelling and my structures. I wrote a book on it, and I've since co-wrote a second book with Dr. Randy Olson, and they invited me to come in and teach a master's course on sustainable storytelling. Now, Mike, I had never taught anything in my life at that level, and I wasn't even the greatest student back in my days at Washington State University. But what I had learned over the course of the 30 years leading up to that, I was became a professor of practice, and I spent five years teaching storytelling, and I realized that that was my next calling-not just an ad guy, but to teach people how to do that.
Michael Hingson 48:47
You talk about the story cycle system. What is that?
Park Howell 48:50
Well, back in 2006, when I was struggling with our agency, trying to figure out how do you operate in this new digital realm and and actually make it work for clients. Our son Parker was going to film school at Chapman University, which is a very prominent film school over in Orange, California. He really wanted to be a film director, and I said, "Yeah, that's great. Go for that, and you might want to get your minor in business too, because business drives everything, even filmmaking. Well, while he was going to school there, and he has since moved on and has has a very prosperous career in the virtual reality mixed reality filmmaking world. So his education did him well. But while he was there, I was saying, you know, Parker, send me your books and your recorded lectures when you're done with them, since I'm paying for them, because I want to know what does Hollywood know about storytelling that we don't know, and that's when I was introduced to Joseph Campbell and the Hero's Journey. And as soon as I saw The Hero's Journey, I thought to myself, "By golly, this is a customer journey. This is a sales representative's journey." This is an agency owner's journey. This is all of our journeys. Why don't they teach this in the advertising world? It seemed like it was such a blueprint to success. It blew my mind. So I took it. It's a between a 12 and 17 step story structure is the hero's journey, or as Campbell would call it, the mono myth. And I mapped it to business because I knew the business people would say that's woo-woo Hollywood stuff. So I created my 10-step story cycle system, and Climate Adelante was the very first brand I used it on, and looked at it. It was kind of a science experiment, Mike. I didn't know if it was going to work or not, and it worked beyond my wildest imagination. And that's when I said, "There's magic here. There's incantations here. There's algorithms here that I need to understand much better. And by the way, it was Joseph Campbell who famously said, "Follow your bliss. You know what do you really love to do? And doors will open where there were only walls before, and in doing that, well, number one, we started having tremendous success in branding. Arizona State University shows up and says, "We want you to teach a master's course in this. I got a chance to sit down with the legendary screenwriting coach Robert McKee in his home in Connecticut and interview him for three hours for my podcast, even before I had a podcast. And I'm like, this stuff works. The magic of story works, and that's really what got me going. Is I had to take that leap of faith several years later and say, all right, you know, at 55, most people don't make that change, but I thought everything else has been telling me this is the way forward. I need to respect that and have the courage and the curiosity and go for it.
Michael Hingson 51:51
And it worked,
Park Howell 51:52
and it's worked fabulously. I've been able to travel around the world, teach people all over the place how to do this stuff. We have embraced AI. I think, by the way, I got to laugh because artificial intelligence is like the worst brand name you could ever advance for our most dynamic technology ever created. Think about it, though. It plays to one of the story truths I talked about earlier, right? The technologist that created AI named what they made artificial intelligence. Yeah, I reframe it as to what can artificial intelligence actually make happen in your life to artful intelligence because it doesn't work very well without you, and it can absolutely amplify your ability to create, to connect, to to have a tremendous impact in the world, and so I think about a little bit like emotional intelligence (EI) plus AI, artificial intelligence equals a whole new kind of ROI, and to me, that's your return on intelligence because it can make you smarter, it can make you faster, it can make you a better writer. I've experienced it myself, and that's why I look at artificial intelligence as artful intelligence when used right.
Michael Hingson 53:17
And I think the key is when used right, and and the the operative part of all that is, it isn't going to do the writing. It isn't going to do the creating, but it's going to give you tools and assets that you can use to make you a much better writer and creator.
Park Howell 53:36
Yeah, to me, it replaces the blank page and the blank stare with a right piece of content that you can now become the chief copy editor and writer on,
Michael Hingson 53:48
right? Which which is fine. Yeah, I I don't think you're ever going to be able to take the human out of the creativity, no matter how good artful or artificial intelligence becomes. There's still that human element that that really is going to be part of it and should be part of it,
Park Howell 54:06
yeah, without a doubt. One of my favorite piano players, Ben Folds and writer, you know, songwriters. He was a guy that back in the '90s, I was listening one of his first albums, and it was the first artist I had ever heard that left mistakes in his recording. He didn't go back. He didn't auto tune. If he missed a note on his piano playing, he left it. And there was such an authenticity to his singing, songwriting, and music because of that, there was nothing artificial about it. You knew you were hearing from an artist, warts and all, very endearing. And as AI gets better and better and better, it's going to erase those warts and it's going to give you synthetic pablum that is going to give you a toothache. Is it is not going to feel feel human unless you know how to use
Michael Hingson 55:05
it, right? Which is which is the important part. So there are a lot of entrepreneurs and and people who have great stories. How do you help them learn to tell those stories? What do you do today? The
Park Howell 55:21
best thing, the best tip I can give to anyone to that excellent question, is when you're telling a story, don't think about some big epic arc of a story. Those are like impossible to tell. Forget about it. And actually, your audience pretty much doesn't care about it. Think about a moment in time when everything changed for you, that woke you up, that set you on a new trajectory, tell that story. Have you noticed with a lot of the stories I've told, I've always given you a timestamp. I woke up in September of 20. What was it? September of 2015 with a knot in my stomach. Well, you do that. I purposely do that because if I start with a timestamp, it triggers my limbic brain to say, "Oh, something must have happened. Park started with a timestamp. I'd better pay attention to hear what happened to him, so I know what to do in case it ever happens to me. That's the essential sort of biology around it, as we believe. Then I followed up with a location stamp in bed in Phoenix, Arizona, with a knot in my stomach. Well, everyone's woken up with a knot in their stomach. They can relate to it. They can picture it. They can feel it. So now, opening up the theater of the mind. Oh, I can see it. You know, and then what happened? I loved my advertising world, you know, and I was really good at it. Got ad guy of the year in Phoenix in 2010, but there's the plot twist. But I no no longer liked it. Didn't want to be an ad guy anymore, and I was 55 years old. Let's raise the stakes a little bit more. So what did I do about it? I wound down my agency over the course of the next four months, launch business of story, and I've never looked back. That is a story about a moment in time for me that everything changed, and I share those with you. And how did I learn about storytelling? Gave you a timestamp, 2006. Gave you a location stamp, Chapman University in Orange, California gave you an individual, Parker, our son. Everyone you know that has kids have been in and out of college. They can relate to that. So I tell everybody, don't look for your story. Find your scenes. Those moments when things change in your life that you did not anticipate, or those moments of overcoming something that informs who you are today, knit together those scenes, and your story will find you. Yeah,
Michael Hingson 57:50
what is the story cycle genie?
Park Howell 57:53
Well, what we did, and then we took two years to create it. So we've got our story cycle system. I wrote a textbook on it, and I've taken numerous brands through it, and it typically takes 345, months to actually do. After all the due diligence, research, and creative brainstorming, whatever, one of my clients who had been through it and built it for his agency and a content management system ended up selling both of them after we rebranded. Came to me and said, "I love the StoryCycle system. We can make it way more efficient through AI. We're going to build it. And I said, "Okay, you build me a prototype, and away we go. Well, he did. I was blown away. We spent next two years. We launched it in July, and now anybody can use my process through the StoryCycle Genie at StoryCycleGenie AI, and all you have to do is give it your brand name, give it your website, and if you want to add a couple of other documents to it, you can. You don't have to. The genie is going to go through your website, give you a brand assessment on how you're currently showing up in the world with your story, and then it's going to create with you your overall brand narrative strategy. So you are interacting with the genie through that artful intelligence engagement to really dial in your foundational brand story. It finishes creating your overall brand brain with audience stories in your content playbook, and then from there you can build any sort of marketing strategy that's going to be on brand because it knows all about your brand and what you do, and every piece of content it will write for you with you, and it's always on brand. And with every iteration you make, every change, every instruction you give to it, it gets smarter about how you show up in the world. So we just took months of brand development and boil it down to you can do it in a couple of hours. What used to cost 50, $60,000 to do might cost you 200. Let's all send them to build that brand brain out, and then from there it becomes your brand content agency in a bottle. You can use. With your people for all kinds of sales and marketing, from producing videos, it doesn't do images yet. It does all the content strategy around those, and so it's just taken our human invention of the story cycle genie based off of foundational narrative frameworks and makes it available to anybody that wants to build a world-class brand. What's the biggest mistake that you see that most people make when they're trying to share and tell their story and so on? What's the biggest storytelling mistake they usually make? They make it about themselves, and even if your story is about you, which is fine, we tell a lot of stories about ourselves because it's a great example of what we experience, what you can learn from our experience. But always tell it from the point of view of your audience. Why does Mike care about this story? Well, he he asked me, so you know that question about you know what'd you do as a young kid. So I want to tell that story, but I want to try to get it to be relatable to you, you come from a sales background, right? You have to get hardware, computer hardware, and so forth. And so, a lot of the things that I was talking to you about, and hoping that your audience would be triggering in on, was from your perspective through my experience.
Michael Hingson 1:01:17
Right.
Park Howell 1:01:19
That makes sense.
Michael Hingson 1:01:20
It does. So,
Park Howell 1:01:21
and then be brief. You know, one of the best copywriting tips I got was out of an old, old, old direct mail copywriting book. Said, you know, in this case, it was about writing. So, write with vigor. Brevity is vigor. Yeah, storytelling is the same way. You want to be specific and have specifics in the story, but you got to balance it with brevity. If to your point,
Michael Hingson 1:01:47
yeah, people oftentimes take way too long. They have to explain too many things, or they think they have to explain that that they don't, and they take way too long to get to the point.
Park Howell 1:02:00
Yeah, yep. The only way to overcome that is start your story with the end. You know, you could might it's sort of like a moral of a story. Like, gosh, Mike, have you ever been in a situation where you did something that surprised the hell out of you, and you found kind of a whole new calling? Yeah. Well, what are you talking about? Well, let me tell you what happened to me. Time stamp, location stamp. I was trying to do this, but then this thing happened to me that opened my eyes to this whole new world. Now I'm doing this. Makes perfect sense. So for listeners who want to develop their unstoppable mindset through clear storytelling and so on, how and what would be the best way for them to start? Well, like you, I also have a podcast. There you go. 10 years, and it's always story artists from around the world. It's called the Business of Story. We talk a lot about storytelling in every aspect of business: sales, marketing, branding, and personal development, and in fact, I end each show with the simple thought of remember that the most potent story you'll ever tell is a story you tell yourself. So make that a good one. So that's that unstoppable mindset, right? So go there. You can find me too on LinkedIn, Park Howell. Let me know. You know, reach out. Let's let's connect. Tell me you heard me on Mike's show, so I know where you're coming from. And then, of course, if you want to check out the Story Cycle Genie, you can even test the strength of your brand story for free. Just go to StoryCycleGenie.ai. You're going to click on a button that says "Give me my brand story grade. It's going to ask you for your name, an email, and your website. That's all. No credit cards. No nothing. And in under a minute, it's going to give you a grade from A plus to F minus, and a 14 point storytelling assessment that will validate what you're doing well, reveal gaps that you can easily fix, and even inspire you with new ways to tell your story.
Michael Hingson 1:04:03
So there you are, and I hope people will reach out to you. I think that you have offered a whole lot of very relevant and useful stuff, which I'm not surprised at. I figured you would, and I personally really appreciate the time that you've taken with us. Maybe we should do more of this in the future. We'll have to discuss it and plot.
Park Howell 1:04:23
I love it, Mike, and I got to have you over on my show if you're open to coming on the beach. Absolutely
Michael Hingson 1:04:28
love the feature there. Absolutely, I always start my stories with a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Do you think anybody? Nobody's used that, right? You know, fair enough.
Park Howell 1:04:38
Fair enough. I like it. There should be a movie out of that.
Michael Hingson 1:04:41
They really should. What would they call it? Star something. Anyway, I really, I really
Park Howell 1:04:48
unstoppable Star Wars.
Michael Hingson 1:04:49
Unstoppable Star Wars. Right. Well, thank you for being here. I want to thank all of you for listening and watching. I'd love to hear from you. Hear what you think about today and. Everything with Park that we went through. Love to get your ideas. Feel free to email me at speaker at michael Hingson m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com. Wherever you're observing our podcast, please give us a five star rating. But even more important, give us a great review. People love reviews when they're considering what podcasts they're going to devote their time to, so we really appreciate reviews. And of course, as I also always say, if you know anyone who ought to be a guest on our show, Park, including anybody you may know, we're always looking for people you would introduce us to who can come on and tell their stories. So with that, I want to thank you once again, Park, for for being here and working with us and and putting us through some great exercises today. So thank you very much. Well, thank you, Mike. I really appreciate it, and I can't wait to have you all run the business of story. Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to michaelhingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back, and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset.