The Secret to Navigating Change with Confidence & Courage with Catherine Danieli

Full 8000 things done to your face, right?

And to take 25,000 supplements, and to get up at 4am. with a

five hour, a morning ritual, and to have a house that 500 people

can fit in, and 15 cars. Like this is what we're told makes

for a happy life, and so the thing that I, I mean, really,

what I want to end with of like the secret to navigating change

with confidence and courage is to recognize that life is not

here to make you happy. Life is here to love the shit out of you

and help you discover the gifts and the magic of who you are and

how capable you are, and then to use all the things that you go

through that are hard to serve the planet and serve other

people in some way, because absolutely nothing is ever

wasted.

Hello, my loves. Kate here. Before we get into

this week's episode, I just wanted to share in case there's

any newbies on listening to the New Truth who don't know who

Catherine Daniele is. Go back to the very beginning of the New

Truth podcast, and you can hear 10 million episodes with me and

Catherine. She is my podcast partner. Still feels like she's

my partner, but she stepped away from the New Truth about a year

and a half ago to really deepen her journey into motherhood. And

she was a relationship coach for over 13 years. Phenomenal,

phenomenal relationship coach, which she also stepped away

from, and now she's starting to peek her head back in and and

share some of her teachings around conscious motherhood. So

she is an extraordinary teacher and mother, and you know just

sees things so differently. So I know, especially if you're a

mom, you're going to get so much value from this episode. Go

follow her at her new podcast called Mater Vera. I believe

it's not live yet, but it will be live in the next couple

months. Catherine Daniele. Her info will be linked below this

episode. You can send her an email if you want to get on the

list for her podcast when it comes out. You're gonna love

her. And so once you hear the episode, if you haven't heard

the new truth from the beginning. I would go back to

the beginning and hear some of her wisdom and the evolution of

Kate and Catherine through the many years that we did the new

truth together. So enjoy.

Hello, beautiful. Welcome to the New Truth podcast with the OG

one and only original co-founder Catherine Daniele, welcome back.

Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. So happy to be here with

you. What a dream! I tried to get Catherine back like last

year, last fall. I felt like it had been enough time. So, those

of you who don't know, Catherine Danielle is my beautiful podcast

partner. I always still say we. I realized on an episode the

other day, I was like, okay, maybe we's now the collective.

It's like everyone. It's all of our podcasts because I can't

just say my. It just says we. She's my silent partner in

spirit form. That Catherine and I birthed the New Truth podcast

in January of 2020 in the most divine timing of all timings.

Seriously, if you are new and you haven't gone back, I know a

lot of newbies go back and listen to the old episodes, but

there's so much gold in the first 300 episodes or however

many we put together. Yeah, we recorded a lot of gold, so I'm

very happy to have you back and your amazing wisdom and and

seeing the woman that you have become. And today we get to talk

all about that secrets to navigating change with

confidence and courage.

I'm so happy to be here and to see you. I

mean, we went from communicating nonstop every week for five

years to not that, and I'm so grateful that my friendship with

you is we just pick up right where we left off. Like it's no

big deal at all. Hi everybody, hi to everyone who's listened to

me before, and then and then new people. And what's true now is

this topic is incredibly important to me as a result of

what I've been through over the past four years with becoming a

mother. On top of, you know, I only left the podcast 18 months

ago, so through motherhood I was doing it until my body was

screaming that it was time to let go. And isn't that, you

know, usually what happens, and I and I pray for all women to

not let things get to that point anymore where our body is

screaming right before we hear our truth and our no, and that

the more we commit to knowing ourselves and being connected to

ourselves, it does not. Hopefully, doesn't have to be

with so much angst when we just know that you know something

needs to change, or something's done. But I think as human

beings, what is true is we don't want to change, right? Like our

our orientation, at least from our ego mind and and fear mind,

is for things to be the same, right, forever, so we can be

comfortable and secure. And then when you choose a growth path,

you're ready to. I'm going to step out of that, but now it's I

think a lost secret of womanhood is that we are always changing.

That is the truth of being a woman. Our hormones change week

by week every month. We are our bodies are changing, our psyche

is changing, our souls are changing, and what an insane

concept to imagine that who I am at 20 years old is who I'm going

to be at 40 or 60. Let alone the insane concept that I'm going to

look the same my entire life. That we have, I mean, talk about

for me like the patriarchal pain is telling women that they're

not supposed to change, whereas we literally are the change. We

are the most connected to nature as a result of our physiology

and the fact that we bleed and go through death and rebirth

cycles every single month. Let alone that over over the course

of our lifetime.

Yeah, I feel heartbroken. Broken thinking

about like that. That we've all bought into this idea that we're

not supposed to change. Like this, when you think about the

script, like even a relationship, you sign a

contract. The movie ends it happily ever after they got

married, and now it's over. So we all see that, and we think,

okay, that's what we need. We need to get to that destination.

We just need to get married. Then we sign the contract, and

then our relationship is good. It is a living, breathing thing,

and most relationships die because people treat them like

they're always the same, and you treat your partner like you're

always the same, and you treat yourself like you're always the

same, and like you can't change. Rather than celebrating our

changes, celebrating the new, and and feeling the pain of the

grief of the death of the old parts of self, because even like

think about how much the world changes. Like, or not even the

world, the systems in the world. Like, we grew up, and there was

like television. Our parents didn't have television. Then we

had television. Our grandparents didn't have cars. You know, like

it's like how quickly the world changes. Now everyone has a

television in their hand that can do absolutely anything. Like

the the systems inside of this world change constantly, and yet

women are programmed to not change and to not desire more.

And I just think like how many women feel guilty because they

signed a contract of marriage, for example, and then they've

changed so much, and their partner hasn't changed, and they

haven't grown together, and then they feel like they can't leave.

But we are always changing.

That is the core truth of life. That

everything changes, and you know, we chose to say how to

navigate it with confidence and courage because most people

navigate it with kicking and screaming and tantrums. You

know, like I, I don't, I don't really know anyone. I mean,

myself included, where the confidence and courage and grace

of the change comes easily. You know, maybe Kate. Now, now, not

everything, but yes, more like with living in

new places. And there's certain areas of my life where it's

harder. Like my business is ready to grow new arms and legs,

and I'm like, oh, this is so comfy where it is. So for sure,

there's areas where it's harder, but but living in new places

seems to be easy now.

That's easy for you now. I I just you know

nothing you know here's what's true for me nothing has brought

me into life and and the truths of life and knowing myself that

woman is life a woman is life than motherhood and I think it

just has it had to go that way for me you know there there's

women that have much bigger awakenings into their femininity

and their pleasure before having a baby, right? Thank you, God,

for all these amazing teachers and healers and coaches, right?

That we have access to, and that and that women can find

themselves. But this journey of mothering really brought me to

my knees because it brought me to facing the parts that did not

like change, that wanted things to stay the same forever, that

actually naively believed, because now I can now I can say

this without judging myself. I couldn't two years ago that I

really believed that I could just have my baby and then keep

going on with my life, like I did, you know, because no one

taught me how insane of a thought that actually is.

Because there is a lost language of womanhood, you know, and I'm

surrounded by friends in their 40s who who don't have children

and are having conversations with me, saying I'm a completely

bit different person right now than I was five years ago.

Right? They're they're 4344, 48, and they're just in this. No one

has ever guided me on how to do this well. Different initiations

and what we're supposed to be doing in our 20s and 30s, and

then yes, what happens to us in our 40s? I'm sure you've had

some amazing people on the podcast in the past 18 months

too. Like I'm thinking of Dr. Mindy, right, who's focused on

actual women's hormone health, and Dr. Sonia Jensen, right?

That we now have this language, right? People are talking about

it, and it's still not even remotely mainstream, right?

Women are still constantly pathologizing themselves, or

not, or shaming themselves, or judging themselves for the

changes that are happening in their bodies, or in their life,

or the things that they used to be able to tolerate that they

cannot anymore, and it just takes courage. You know, it

takes courage to say no. It takes courage to say yes. And

leaving the podcast was one of the hardest things I've ever

done in my life because it was something I loved. And it's

interesting. I led a women's circle for mothers in 2024, and

I'll never forget this because it was such a like powerful

moment for this person where we ended up ending the circle after

a year, and this particular woman was so beautiful. She

said, "You know, hearing Catherine talk about the ending

of this circle and me being in alignment with it was true to

end it because we kind of started it together. She said,

"I realized my mo is I usually have to make something wrong in

order to leave it. That it that I buffer my feeling about

leaving something because it has to be bad and wrong. But she's

like, and I've learned only through this experience that

something can just be no longer true because it's no longer

true, and I still could have loved it. And what a perfect

example of what we do with relationships! I mean, how many

breakup episodes have we done over all these years where we we

can't even fathom people? Like we, when people have kind,

supportive, conscious breakups, we don't even know what to do to

ourselves because then it's like, well, then why are you

breaking up, right? As if it always has to be toxic and bad

and wrong in order to leave it, rather than it's just no longer

true. I'm different. I've changed, and we don't. I mean,

God, my marriage is. I have a completely different marriage

right now than four years ago. Since having Madeline, and how

much courage it takes to have those conversations of I want to

be married, right? I want to be married to you.

I want to be in this marriage, and we need to go on a date as

the new people that we have become, and we need to bring to

conversation what is now different as a result of in my

case my husband losing both of his parents and now being an

orphan as an only child with absolutely no family and what

happens when you bring a child into your life and we just have

no we have no thresh conscious threshold crossing no initiation

conversations women are so lost right now because they're

getting information from Instagram rather than the the

words of older women, right, who have gained the hard won wisdom

and sat in the circles and know how life works just as a result

of growing up. So we're all finding information through what

the 21 year old on Instagram is saying, rather than I'm thinking

of. I mean, my friend is at my best friend is at Dr. Amanda

Midlife Muse's weekend in in Fort Lauderdale right now, and

she's sending me the most phenomenal text about how she's

just having an amazing time. So if you haven't listened to that

episode with the Midlife Muse, go back to that one. I think we

started. Did we start 2024 with that episode? Maybe. Yeah. And

essentially, what she said to me is, "I've never had anyone like

this. I've never had a woman who I think she's 53. So Dr.

Mansfield, like, to look up to and admire and to be following

and to say, 'Oh, this person has something to offer me that's not

spouting the culture bullshit, right? Or full of Botox, right?

Or being incongruent with her message. She was actually said,

"Doctor Man is one of the most congruent women I've ever been

around," right? And who's actually fully stepping into the

joy of being a woman. But it's it's this, you know. In my case,

I was brought to my knees. You know, of learning that yeah,

change is a part of life. That's how life works. Do

you know that's Mama Gina's new book? On our

knees. On my knees.

Yeah, yeah. And and what someone just

recommended that book to me actually. But what I found

powerful is that it's on our knees how to love your life even

when you hate what's happening.

Yeah,

that's the the second piece. And

oh my god,

what medicine, right, for the

collective? Because not only do we resist change, we say to

ourselves. I'm going to hate this because it's not according

to my plan. Or we say things like this shouldn't be

happening, or this is the wrong thing, even though life is it's

it's what life is doing. Like like this is this is what's in

in front of us. And I don't know if you want to talk about the

way you navigated me leaving the podcast too, but that you know,

gosh, I think I can really only say this as an almost

40-year-old woman now that it just takes what it takes

sometimes. Like if you had said this to me when I was 22, I'd

have been like, "Oh my god, get like whatever," you know, like

whatever. I didn't want to hear it. Like I was so sure of myself

at 22 and what I believed was true and right, and what my plan

for my life was going to be, and that's why I just keep saying

hard won wisdom, and why I'm loving being around older women

now because it is hard won, right? Because we don't easily

go through some of these initiations of our life, but we

do, and then we come out on the other side, you know, changed

forever. Actually, like anchored in the wisdom of what it takes

To change,

yeah, and it all makes sense later. It doesn't

make sense in the moment. Dallas, I've I've referenced our

my episode with him. It's not coming out until late November,

but I've referenced it a few times in our conversation. He

said something. He said many beautiful things, but he said,

you know, when you can be thankful for even everything you

hate, everything in your life that you hate, that you're so

resistant to, that you're fighting, it's like only the

pattern that resists change. But what I found 20 years into my

growth journey, the and and even beyond that, I was telling the

story of losing my best friend when I was 22, and how I was

sharing that with a woman I'm working with right now, and how

that was part of my awakening to my spirituality, because he kept

guiding me. And so, like, what a profound gift that has been.

That rupture has been, and how healing that experience has

been, and how profoundly impactful that experience was,

and has been for my work in the world, and my belief in the

divinity and belief in in spirit guiding us. So, like these

things, you know, unfathomable things will happen in the human

experience. That's the human experience, and and life will

bring us to our knees many, many, many, many times. And when

you have a relationship with yourself and with your feelings

and with your heart and with the little girl inside of you that's

scared, and you know how to meet these parts of you and how to

how to love these parts of you through those moments, and how

to grieve the loss and the change. Like, okay, back to the

podcast when how it went down for me. I made it might have

shared this in our last episode, but I was at Ulapengi working on

my book, and something had happened, and I had this like

feeling, and I was debriefing it. I can't remember something

you said, or I can't remember, but it wasn't. But it was before

we had the conversation, and Mariana said to me, "You know, I

feel like the podcast is yours now," and I was like, "What?

No!" And I got really mad at her, and I was like, "I don't

want it. I don't want it to be mine." No. And then it was funny

because I got. She's like, "Okay, go into that feeling." So

I did, and I had tantrumed, and I felt it fully, and I cried,

and I was like, "I don't." And then we had the conversation

maybe a day later, and I was ready for it then because I I

wasn't ready for it when when she had said that, but that was

like that prepared me for the moment that we actually had the

conversation, and and even then I was like, okay, I don't want

this, but I support you, and I also trust life. Like I trust

that everything that is gone from my life is a part of my

next level of growth, and a part of my journey, and a part of my

redirection. So it's cool to think like, and I I remember

feeling so much like I don't know if I can, and what if women

don't listen anymore, and like what's going to happen? And to

sit here now and just feel like the normalcy of it. And

remember, I used to hate doing solo episodes. I hated when you

started when you when you had Madeline. You'd be like, I need

you to do another solo. I need you to, and I'm like, no, I hate

just sitting on Zoom talking to myself. And now I love it. And

and so many of my clients are like, oh, I love your interview

so much. It's amazing meeting new women, but I love the solos.

I get so much from the solos, and it's it's like, oh, cool.

Okay, I grew into a new part of me. And then last weekend I was

filming for a course that I'm doing for a collaboration, and I

was sitting in front of a camera, and I was like, "Oh,

good God!" And then I met it again. I met that like the first

time. It took three hours to film three minutes, and it was

so bad, and I felt so like a robot.

And I was like, "Hi, I'm Kate Harlow." Blah blah blah. It was

like so bad, and then I said a prayer before bed. I texted G,

and I was like, "Can you tune the tune the video shoot, our

energy lady, and our secret weapon?" And then I just set

lots of intentions of deep meditation and prayer and

singing and all the things in the morning. And then I just

dropped in, and we did six videos in the day. And the guys

that videoed it were like. Fun and they loved it and they

learned and so it's like we're life is always inviting us like

whether we're on the growth path or not we're always being

invited to grow into more parts of ourselves. Some refuse the

call and just stay in the you know programmed small self, but

when you're here to grow, I mean it it's scary at first to the

part of you that to the the unknown is scary, but actually

the unknown is magical. And in my experience, the more you do

it, the easier it becomes. You're speaking to such a

powerful thing that we do to ourselves too, which is we

actually have so many unrealistic expectations of

ourselves. So I'm thinking of one learning something new, like

how essential that is for our brains and our psyches, and that

so many people refuse to do the thing that's new because they

don't want to be quote unquote bad at it, right? Or they don't

want to be a beginner, and it's such a powerful

thing watching my daughter, who

novelty is not her like she actually is not the kid that

like if we go to a new park because my friends' kids are

like this who go to a new park and they're like wow like cool

like this this park is amazing and I just immediately go like

run and and be free. My daughter on the other hand has to like

take something all the way in. Like we walk in and it's like,

oh, this place is new. And then we just sit on the sidelines

together. Like, what do you see? What might you be interested in,

right? And I'm gonna be with you forever long it takes until you

feel ready to explore. And then after a few minutes, you'd be

like, well, will you come with me? And then yes, we we go right

and explore. And with that, right of one, notice if you're

someone who is not willing to ever try something new because

you're afraid of being bad at it, and then two, that this it

always comes back to our relationship with our feelings

because so many women don't want to feel the thing around the

change. So back to the breakup of oh, I can be in an aligned

breakup. Like it is true to end and feel sad. Imagine that. Like

people think I'm not allowed to feel sad if it's the right thing

or the true thing to to choose. Like I was incredibly sad. I

mean, grief is actually. I could define my first three years of

motherhood actually as the most unbelievable grief ritual I've

ever done in my entire life, because I was met with waves

upon waves upon waves of grief that I had to be willing to sit

with, and no one wants to do that. Like no one wants to just

be with the feelings that come when things changes without a

story around it. Of oh, if I have a feeling about it, then

that must mean something is wrong. And the most powerful

thing I can think of around this is what happened when I weaned

from breastfeeding with my daughter last September. My

daughter, who did not want to stop, my my kid would probably

still be breastfeeding at 10 if it was up to her. Actually, she

was that. That was so central to our relationship and our bond.

And near, I mean, it took me about six months to be willing

to make the decision. But my body just was was done. Like,

what was starting to happen is I was having nursing aversions. I

wasn't enjoying it anymore. I was dreading it, and it was such

a mind fuck because in my mind, in my heart, I would have done

it forever. You know, I wanted to, but my body was no. And she

actually grieved for 10 months. She'd bring it. She'd bring it

up constantly. She would cry when she saw other babies having

milk, and still to this day. So it's I mean I mean a year later,

she says, "When are they coming back for the next baby, so that

I can have some?" But it was such a powerful experience for

me. One to let her have her feelings about it, and and and

have her learn like this is grief. Yes, you're sad because

you miss something you love, and I can be with you, you know, in

that. And then, as a mother, the mind fuck of not feeling guilty

because she was sad about it, and to know that what was true

for me is I really needed to be done, and be with my feeling

about that, and not be like groveling around her, right?

Like a little kid. Well, I'm sorry, I had to stop, you know,

and just be like, "Yes, I loved it too, baby." Like, and and and

I miss it too. And together, let's think of other ways that

we can be connected. And I came up with a song that said, "The

milk goes away, but love stays forever." And and I just keep

thinking of how many of us have been like really at the core of

anxiety is I don't trust I can handle what I'm feeling

yeah right

and that I'm afraid I'm and I'm going to be

alone in it and we all know how many of us have been left

fucking alone in our feelings in our in our childhood you know.

None of very few of us in our generation, at least, have had

parents that could do this. And how what one of the one of the

number one things actually that I've respected the most about

you that you have done since the first time we we became friends

is you've always let me in to your feelings. You've let me see

you. You've let me know you. You've never had shame about

what you're feeling. I, on the other hand, did not do this very

easily when I first met. But that was so healing for me

because, of course, as your friend, I want to be there,

right? Like, and what do we tell? Like, so I didn't share,

and I never got. It took me so long in our friendship to

experience the gift and the magic of what happens when

someone's really with you in what you're feeling, and not

trying to fix it, not trying to coach you out of it, not not

gaslighting you into seeing the positive around it, and just

saying, you know, yeah, yeah, this is hard. Like, oh wow, it

sounds like it's really hard, and I know you'll figure it out

together. And I'm here, you know, if you need something, and

that's the kind of relationship we get to have with ourselves,

and and right, that's at the core of this. Is no one knows

how to do this? Like no one knows how to be willing to sit

with what they're feeling and their experiences, and and what

it takes to come to your truth and to know that confidence and

courage around the change starts with I'm willing to be with what

I'm feeling about this, I'm willing to be how with what

other people feel about this, right? Because most women don't

make decisions based on their truth because they're afraid of

other people being upset about it, right? Or what people are

going to feel. And then three, the recognition that it's not

supposed to be easy, like to stop having unrealistic

expectations around how we handle things. And another thing

I'll never forget in my life, speaking of the, because this is

now something we need to talk about, is women don't navigate

change well because they're more focused on other people's

reactions, right, to what they're going to say. They need

to change. When I worked as a sexual health educator. If no

one knew that about me before I became a coach, I was a sexual

health educator. I have a master's in public health, and

there was a research study of like 1000s of teen girls where

they were asked, "What is the thing you want to know the most

how to do when it comes to navigating sex and sexuality?"

And they said the number one question was how to say no

without hurting someone's feelings. That is what they

wanted to know out of everything they could have known about

their body and about pleasure and and about sexuality. They

wanted to know how to say no without hurting someone else's

feelings, and I mean, talk about. I mean, I'm not alone,

right? In in the parenting culture right now, I mean,

there's so many people, right, that are getting it, right, and

we're doing it differently than our parents ever did. But the

number one thing as a parent and is modeling, right, you get to

be in what's true without worrying about what the people

feel and think, and and actually, a lot of parents don't

know how to do this, right? Because even with the weaning

example, right, that my grief had to be separate from

Madeline. My guilt is not Madeline's freaking problem, you

know, and and honor, you know, what I needed to do, and then

let her have her feelings, right, about the ending. But

that's how confidence and courage comes.

A girl woman comes home to herself and can say, "I'll

follow and be with the changes that are unfolding in my life

without worrying about how the people feel, you know, about

them, and really being connected to what I'm experiencing without

judgment, without shame, without unrealistic expectations, and

without comparing it, you know because maybe someone does have

an easier time making a decision than you, but it doesn't mean

you're doing it wrong, right? It just means that's where you are,

and it's okay.

Also, like when you consider factors like astrology,

like we're all so different. Like you know, people with lots

of earth are more stubborn. People with lots of air just

talk about it, but don't make me take action. Like people with

lots of fire probably take more action quicker. There's there's

there's so many layers to everything. Like everything is

so nuanced. First, I have to say you're. I want to say you're

going to, but I got like a very clear visual of a children's

book with this breastfeeding thing, and maybe it's like a

children's book series, but like helping children wean based on

everything you just taught. Because actually, I don't

believe many women are doing what you're doing. I think it's

really rare, and in my experience, it's like the

ability to hold the small parts of me that are feeling so much.

It's like our human, our little cute human, and also hold the

divinity, like all the moments in my life where drastic changes

happen, and I've been devastated. And simultaneously,

knowing like something big is changing, and and this is this

is leading me somewhere. Like I I always know both to be true.

You know, when I got bit in the face by a dog in Greece, and it

was COVID time, and I'm in the hospital, my small self is. Like

oh my mom and dad like oh my god am I going to be deformed

forever like I didn't know what was going to happen from that my

entire face was swollen and I I thought I lost my eye at the

time and it was like it was really scary and I just moved to

Greece and I was feeling the feelings and like but also

simultaneously knowing this was divine this was part of it and

then it was naturally woven into the podcast. It was woven into

my work of like how you can hold yourself from your sovereignty,

and you can hold the parts of you that need to be held. And

how beautiful for you to model that for Madeline! Like that is

so. I'm so excited for your podcast and your that you are

going to be teaching this. I really saw a kids' book series,

but that was one of them was weaning because it's like that

that that stance to be able to lovingly say like this is what's

happening. So for women to learn, and it's it's a it's a

practice. It's I want to say learn, but when we're little,

like you know how to say yes and no based on your truth and your

body. Like parents try and convince you to do the opposite,

and you're you're screaming and kicking, and like it it's it's a

remembrance that that the truth is inside of you, the new truth.

The truth is in your body. The truth is in your heart. It's

clear. If you're trying to make the should I stay or should I go

or should I leave this job from your mind, you'll never make it.

That's a ping pong game, but when you actually let yourself

feel and you create some space and you feel the feeling, it's

not going to make sense to your mind. So don't try. Like if your

mind would be like, "No, we could just keep breastfeeding

because, like, oh, just another week. Oh, we'll do it in the

future. Oh, you know, there's these other studies. Like, your

mind could find all the logical reasons to go against your

compass, but your compass was clear, even though it was

heartbreaking, and to be able to follow that and and model that

for your daughter, and then every the ripple effect of that

to be able to lovingly be like, yeah, it's fucking

heartbreaking, and this is clear. That's how I felt when I

left my relationship with Patricio. Like he loved me so

much, loves me still, and it was so clear. It was, and he he was

clear too. Like he knew that for me it was complete. So he it was

clear, but it was also really sad because we have so much care

and love for each other, and we went on this journey together.

And I mean, gosh, Charlie, Jeff, like every relationship I've

left, it's been the same.

Like this, I don't leave till I'm crystal clear in my body,

but simultaneously, it's like yeah, that's hard. And if and

you feel a lot, but communicate. I mean, the boundary episode a

few episodes ago is a good one for communicating truth with

love. It's like all you have to do is like when you're crystal

clear and you're not confused or muddled still on your truth, you

just communicate it with kindness and love.

Yeah, yeah.

We have so many unrealistic expectations

about life. It's so insane to me now. And the conditioning of

girls is, you know, beyond painful for me. That we're just.

I feel like I'm going to spend a lifetime actually unpacking and

and getting out of me, you know, and and that that's okay, but

that because that's what I'm committed to, you know. But when

I think of, and I can really only speak to this because my

entire life, whenever I mean, I remember in my early 20s, I was

just talking, like it was literally just talking to one of

my friends, and she was like, "You're really hard on

yourself," and I was like, "I am" Like, like it was so just

how I spoke and like the relationship I had with myself

that I didn't know that that was what that it sounded like that,

and it's actually probably been the biggest thing that I've

wrestled with in motherhood, and that's why I just have

goosebumps when I think about the timing right now. Of just,

yeah, it's just taken me for now. I'm gonna cry. It just

really has taken me four years to be where I am right now. And

you know what's true? There's a lot of research on matrescence

that says it takes three to five years for a woman to return to

the embodiment of who she's become as a result of going

through motherhood. So I'm just going to say that again. If

you're a mother, that Michelleson says three to five

years after having a child, and some of y'all have like three

children in three years, and and some of you think that after six

weeks, you should be bouncing back, right, and and going back

to work. And again, this is why I just think of the magic of

being a woman. Like so many comedians are making jokes right

now about like ovulation phase, follicular phase, you know,

luteal phase, and and all the different moods. And I'm so

happy that this is now becoming mainstream, and we're talking

about this. But hopefully, what's happening simultaneously

is that awareness that oh yeah, I'm different every week in one

month. So how do I reset my expectations of my. How do I

remember that on the days when I'm like my life is over and

everything sucks? I'm probably about to bleed tomorrow, you

know, like that. That how do I stop? We make everything wrong.

Like back to that woman who was like, I usually have to make

something wrong in order to leave it. Like it's just so

easy. It's just the. It's like the cheap, lazy, lame choice

when when change is happening that I have to make it wrong

rather than I'm. It's like I'm a woman. Hear me roar. You know

that that magic of I know this in my bones. I know how to sit

in circles with women. I know how to sing and write poetry

when I'm grieving. Like I know how to sit beside another woman

when she is grieving, and I know how to sit by another woman when

she's on top of the world and shining, and not make it mean

that there's less room for me or that it's not safe for me to do

so too. Like we know how to be with change, and we know that

grief comes with change, and we are the most grief illiterate

culture like there is. Western culture is a joke, in my

opinion. We're a joke. We're so lost over here. But I think at

the core of it, the unrealistic expectations and the being hard

on myself, right? Like I was full of judgment for why things

didn't come easier to me, or why friends, especially over the

past four years, like friends that had babies seemed to have

easier times. You know, well, right? They don't have my

astrology. They don't have my freaking trauma. You know, like

let's talk about that too. Then I have my childhood trauma, and

and it's like I can only be what I am. And and one of the I did a

four year mystery school that turned into seven years because

of COVID. And one of the years was Love and Ecstasy.

And the first two we we met three times a year for a week

long retreat, and the first two weeks of this particular year,

the Love and Ecstasy year, was all about self love and like the

insane things we do to ourselves. And one of the

exercises was she like laid out all these chairs, and she's

like, "Okay, now it's a blue chair. I want you to stand in

front of the chair and start screaming at it about why it's

not green, and how come it has four legs instead of three? And

how come it has like a tall back rather than a short back? And

and it was fun, right, and easy. And we're all like laughing. And

she's like, "And this is how you talk to yourselves, like right

now. Like this is how you talk to yourselves." I'm like, "Why

aren't you different, right, than than who you are?" And then

this mantra that I still think about because that year changed

me forever. Was like I can only be what I am, where I am, right,

and with the material that I'm working with, and that freed me.

You know that that freed me because right, like we can only

be what we are, and that's all I'm asked to be not more than

who I am, not less than who I am, not different from who I am.

But all day long, if you open Instagram, I am a year off of

Instagram also right now.

Wow! Fucking

best decision of my life. Although I might go

back on when I start the new podcast. To TBD, I'm not sure

yet, but

you can change. I can change

my mind. I can change my mind. But this,

this, we open our eyes, right? We open our eyes in the morning

and walk out the door. And especially if you open your eyes

and sign on to Instagram, inundated with messages about

what kind of life you should lead, what you should be eating,

what you should be wearing, where you should be going, what

relationships? I mean, it's insane if you don't know how to

discern from the noise. Like if you've never been taught how to

return to your body and yourself, it is gonna get you.

It's gonna get you, and my God, especially motherhood content.

Ugh, it's but it's it's all the same. Like it's it's motherhood

content. It's literally the same thing that women have been sold

since the since the second they became a woman. Right? Here's

what you should do. Here's what's important. Here is this.

And then we wonder why we're all miserable and have a hard time

with change, and are all you know self-loathing and and sad

and medicated. You know, like the problem is not you. I

promise. And the greatest news of all is that Kate and I are

living proof that you can learn this, right? You can learn how

to do this well. You can learn how to come home to yourself.

You can learn how to break free from your conditioning and from

the stories of who you think you are and what life should be. And

most of all, you can claim, you know, what is yours to claim.

And and I say to my daughter every day, no one is you, and

that is your superpower. You know, like you get to be exactly

who you are. And and I love who you are. I mean, every night we

fall asleep. I love you. I love who you are, and I'm so happy I

get to be your mom. And that's how we fall asleep at night. And

to look in the mirror yourself, right, as a woman right now, and

look and say, I love who you are, and I'm so happy I get to

love you and get to do this life with you. And I'm so grateful

that I'm going to keep discovering this, and and yeah,

it's taking me four years to sift through the the junk and

the trauma and the messages and and the grief of letting go of

the person I was, and to be able to love the person I was without

judgment, right? Because everything I had done up until

that point was so true. The podcast was so true. It was one

of the truest things I've ever done in my life. The biggest

yes, other than marrying my husband, that I had ever better

be the new truth. The new truth when you when you said you want

to do this podcast, you know, yes, yes, it was the truest yes,

and until it wasn't, until I like it. at

you now. And look at you

now. Like it's so nice to

hear. Like to feel your energy now. And like I

love, I love all versions of you, and including the the the

2013 rooftop party in San Diego. Oh man, that was lost

then too.

My

ex, but

I was a business founder way out exactly. And I

just, I just love all the versions of you. And I mean,

that's the beauty. All the, all of you that are afraid to lose

people and friends and you know jobs and relationships. It's

like they get better. And the ones that are meant to come with

you, like look at this. I'm just like, oh my god, I'm so in love

with you. I just could listen to you talk. I can't wait to listen

to the motherhood podcast because it's you just share so

much wisdom and brilliance that it's applicable to everything.

And also, you know, I feel so passionate about taking this

work in some way one day to young girls and to to like

healing the hearts of young girls or like reinforcing this

messaging for young girls through shows, through books,

through I don't know what, but um, it it's like every young

girl inside of us needs this, and so we're listening to you

talk about what you're doing with and for Madeline, but we

can do it with and for ourselves. Like we can become

that divine mother who does that for the little girl inside, and

who shows up for you, for ourselves in the way our mothers

didn't know how. They just didn't know. Everyone's expected

to be in a relationship and to be with one person forever, and

yet no one teaches us how. There's no manual. There's no

course. There's nothing. And you're just. I mean, nowadays,

obviously, there's a lot more resources.

As if a course is what can teach you.

Yeah. But as if a course could have prepared me that one year

after getting married, my husband's health totally

collapses and falls apart, and he's 80 pounds, and I'm spoon

feeding him and helping him shower, like there's no course

for that shit, you know. Life life is gonna life, and and I

think what my pain about Instagram and this, you know,

personal development culture is this idea that if you do enough

work on yourself, right? If you just do enough work on yourself,

you can handle anything, and you will never fall apart, and

everything will be easy, and and and you'll you know reach some

high point of never having struggle. And it's like, oh my

God, we all suffer. Suffer is part. Suffering is part of life.

Pain is a part of life, right? But it doesn't have to break

you. And and since everything changes, the good news is, is if

you're in a season of suffering, it's going to change, because

absolutely nothing lasts forever, and we just told we're

really told right now that life. I mean, really, let's let's list

for a second the things that we think women need to be happy,

right? Full 8000 things done to your face, right, and to take

25,000 supplements, and to get up at 4am. with a five hour

morning ritual, and to have a house that 500 people can fit

in, and 15 cars. Like this is what we're told makes for a

happy life. And so the thing that I I mean, really, what I

want to end with of like the secret to navigating change with

confidence and courage is to recognize that life is not here

to make you happy. Life is here to love the shit out of you and

help you discover the gifts and the magic of who you are and how

capable you are, and then to use all the things that you go

through that are hard to serve the planet and serve other

people in some way, because absolutely nothing is ever

wasted. Absolutely nothing is ever wasted. Also, it just

looked like a butterfly flew across the stream. Did you see

that?

Yeah, I think it was butterfly or a moth.

Wait, a literal one did do that. Okay,

that wasn't just like a light thing. You're like, oh my god,

was it a fairy? I mean, it kind

of looked like that. Okay, so how perfect

is that? the The butterfly just flew across the street. It's

great. As I was saying that in front of Cade's face, so I know

that the butterfly is the most commonly used transformation

symbol, right? And it is because it's perfect. Because it it's

perfect, and and nothing like think about how beautiful the

butterfly is compared to the caterpillar, and and that that's

the message too. Like the beauty that comes with changes, and and

you have always, I mean, my inspiration has always been you

of how open-handedly you have greeted life. Like since the day

that I met you and someone with my trauma, that was not easy for

me. And now I can say that not as it was Catherine's problem,

but as like, yeah, my trauma took that from me, right? And my

daughter, right. Our natural state is to greet life with open

hands, right. That that is our natural state, and if that's

been taken from you because of trauma, I promise that you can

relearn how to do it because I have. But that that actually is

our natural state: open heart, open hands, strong back, right,

strong core to to say yes to all the things that you know come

our way, and may you never ever again compare yourself to

another woman. That that is my biggest wish, wish for everyone

right now to just let yourself be where you are with what

you're working with, and to let yourself be loved by other

women, because that really is the only way that you'll know

how to come home. That female friendships are the greatest

gift of our life,

completely.

And a butterfly just flew by my

window.

No way! Just now, a big

yellow one. As the butterfly

surrenders to the chrysalis, it just like turns

into mush, right? And it just chills there until it becomes

this beautiful. My favorite butterfly in Kenya is this huge

turquoise one. It's so bright. It's it's got like a black

glittery rim. If I can capture, it's hard. They're hard to

capture, which is symbolic too. But yeah, I just I just feel

the. It's like the arguing with reality rather than meeting

ourselves where we are in what season and what day and what

moment, and and not being a victim of the thing, but loving

ourselves through the thing and and seeking support. And if you

if you are scared of change because everyone else's life

around you looks the same, your life should not look like anyone

else's. And our stories aren't supposed to look the same.

That's the script. That's the problem. That's why so many

women are on antidepressants and anti-anxiety medication and are

having 1o'clock every day at five. Like it's like are

freezing themselves in time with Botox. Like women are so far

away from themselves when their when their lives look the same

as everyone else's. Your life should look so different. You

should be so different from everyone around you, because you

are you, and there's no other you. That's it. Like every

single human soul essence is magic, is beautiful, is radiant,

is unique. Our saboteur patterns are not. So when we're all the

same, we're in our patterns,

right? Oh, that's so important to remember.

The patterns are the same.

Yeah, they are

slightly different neuroses, but

yeah, yeah.

And we all just have so many gifts, and we just

like I just feel like with us on this journey, who you were, and

who I mean, I still think you're taller than you are. I just

remember that you're like as short as me when when I saw you

and you got off the plane. I was like, wait, what? We met with

high heels on, so I didn't remember that you were small

because you have such a big presence. But there's just it's

just so beautiful to see the iteration, the iteration, the

iteration. It's like, and that you can like, I think we keep

falling in love with each other more and more because we're both

following the path of our souls. Your your your scared fear

based, you know, nervous system responses are we're there to

protect you as a child, and they still are working on overtime,

thinking that you need protection, but actually your

soul is always leading the way, and so is life, and it's like

just yeah, that I just think like all the people experiences.

I'm I'm a paddle ball player as of

last. I had

one I had one lesson. Okay, I'm really new,

but like I love doing new things, and I sucked at it. But

it was such a cool experience. Like I every time the teacher

was like, "Kate, move slower. Like you don't have to run to

the ball, like just, and I was just like, "Holy shit, that's

such a metaphor!" It's, it's life is full of magical

experiences, and you know, if we're not willing to change, we

keep ourselves in prison. Period. And like, okay, you can

choose that, or you can choose to be brave, and. And the more

brave you are, the more you attract and surround yourself

with other humans, especially women who are brave too. And

then it gets easier to be brave.

And that's the great news, right? It does

get easier. It doesn't mean that you'll not have grief or not

have uncomfortable feelings like around the change. But like

anything, you know, the more you do it, the easier it becomes.

Exactly.

So, wowie, new truth podcast.

Well, tell us about your your new truth podcast.

Tell us all about

it. So, what is true is probably about two

years into motherhood, I knew that I, you know, and what I

said, like what I went through, I believe nothing is ever wasted

in our lives, and it's meant to be of service to other people.

And I knew that I was going to speak about my experiences and

about the things that I know and the things that I remembered

about being a woman as a result of becoming a mother. But I

really needed to integrate where I was before I could do that,

but this has been on my heart for a long time, and I did start

a Substack, but was not consistent with it at all. But I

am finally ready now, and it's happening. And I have over 360

notes on my phone just around this, around the things that I

want to talk about, which is even insane to me when I look at

it, but the name of my new podcast is Mater Vera, which

means mother true. So about the true mother, the truth about

motherhood, babies, and becoming. I am currently

enrolled in a training to become an integrative infant sleep

specialist. So that is something that's also very important to

me, and that I'm passionate about. And it really is going to

be conversations about the inner world of being a mother, which I

haven't yet seen. About really what's happening when we are in

soul contract with our children and the relationship with our

children, and how our inner children get involved, and

ancestral work is involved in motherhood and and how do we

decondition ourselves from the programming of girlhood? Because

I really believe that the strongest reason women are

struggling in motherhood is both because of unrealistic

expectations, and then two the conditioning that occurred in

girlhood that then we bring into motherhood. And I want to talk

about the biological truths about babies that's not involved

in the conversation. We're talking about sleep and feeding,

so that mothers can make truly informed, consensual decisions

about how they want to parent their children. And then, of

course, the truth of becoming, which is that matrescence is a

word to describe the transformation that occurs for a

mother on every level, physical, emotional, spiritual, and

emotional, and it really is just going to be a passion project

right now. I might eventually have some clients around sleep

or the matrescence piece. If you're still, you know, in that

becoming work, but right now my service is just to have these

conversations and have a place that women can come home to. So

I hope it feels like a fireside chat the way that we used to

gather as women and be learning right together. That we'd be

learning together around the fire, not on 32nd Instagram

reels. So, Mater Rivera, the mother true, which really is to

remember the archetypal mother that lives inside all of us. It

really is for women. I mean, the podcast is for womanhood, but

that there's just lost, really lost conversations that we're

not having around what it means to be a mother in our culture.

So, you can find me. You'll be able to find me on all

platforms, but right now, really, to reach me is just at

my email. Since I'm not on Instagram, I am on Facebook. I

guess you could send me a message there. But hi at

katherinedeli.com if you're interested in getting to know

Monterrey and want the information and when it

releases. But probably in the next couple months. Probably the

next couple months.

Incredible! Oh my gosh, I just see so much.

I'm also in deep prayer to welcome another

baby. So

babies coming, and I just see so much like this,

just opening up a whole new world. It is. It's incredible. I

mean, there's so many things that you've shared from the very

beginning of your journey that I'll never forget. When you said

how much it breaks your heart that that I think I've shared

this recently on the podcast, how much it broke your heart

when you first became a mother. How separate everyone was, like

my daughter, your daughter, and and they were so disconnected

from all the other kids, and it's so wild living in Africa,

where literally everyone's your parent when you're a kid, and

everyone disciplines you, and everyone helps you, and everyone

loves you. Like everyone's parenting everyone here in the

Kenyan culture, and you know, my friend told me that he's like,

oh yeah, you don't. Just have your mom. You have literally

everyone. Every woman that's nearby is your mom.

Because Western culture is me, me, me,

me, me, me, me. Mine, mine, mine, mine, mine. My big house,

my big cars, my children. Yeah, it's sick. It's sick. But I,

me, me, me. But it's

not our. It's not our truth. And there, you

know, I almost called it Mother Bones. My podcast almost was

Mother Bones because it is like bone knowing. Like I knew what

was true, and the second my daughter was placed on my chest.

Yes, yes,

and and that's it because that's a new truth too.

It's coming back to the remembrance of who we are, and

that the compass is all inside, and all the all the things that

our ancestors like all all the the the guidance that our

ancestors had when they had no TV and no media and no no one

telling them what to do it was intrinsic and that's still

inside of every single one of us and that really is the new truth

is coming home to the truth of who we are which is why you're

experiencing motherhood in a very different way.

Yeah,

yeah,

yeah. So the Latin words for mother and true,

and it feels very perfect. And it's really taken me until now

to to find the name too. I agonized over this for the past

two years, but now talk about like I wanted to say too that

Joseph Campbell quote that's like if the path before you is

clear, you're probably on someone else's. When you were

talking about everyone like looking the same and having the

same path, but that once this name has come through, like now

it feels like I've entered the river, you know. And like I had

the ideas, and and but it was like, oh, I couldn't write the

intro, and I was like hemming and hawing over what things

looked like, and then now, as soon as I said the name, I'm I'm

floating. I'm floating down the river, and and I wanted to share

that too because I want to help people. Um, you know what's

funny? I never read Big Magic. I never read Elizabeth Gilbert's

book Big Magic, but I just feel like the creation process is no

different. Like, like that is so central to everything we're

talking about too around being with change, right? Like it's

messy and non-linear and uncomfortable, and and then you

know, like then something happens.

Yes,

and so just I think God, being a woman is so

fucking wonderful, and we are designed to birth worlds, you

know, and books, and consciousness, and and art, and

songs, and poetry, and creations, and relationships.

Like my God, like how sad that we think it's only a woman's

only job is to have babies. Like that's that's what we're telling

women, you know, and to have a husband, and to have a husband,

right? That that it's just the world would literally not

function nor exist without us. And so I hope that also you

remember that that like you are designed to create, and a woman

who's not creating is like yours. We're anxious and

depressed because we're not creating.

Yeah.

Um. And there's songs in you. There's

art in you. There's poetry in you. And it can be just for you.

You don't have to freaking monetize everything. And so this

this is my creative energy. You know, coming back online. Like

I'm not building a business with Monterrey. Um. But it is a

creation that I'm so excited to share.

That's and that's how we started the new truth. It

was like, nope, this is for business. This is for joy. We

both love to talk. We both have lots to say. We have similar

messages but different perspectives, but similar

perspectives. Like, and look what happened from that exactly.

And look how different our lives are because of it. And I think

of like how many women we've both worked with, and and you

know it's just like the ripple effect of that because we just

did it for the joy of it, and it literally was so divinely

guided, and we said yes, and we got uncomfortable, and we

resisted, and we, you know, it's the hero's journey. We like

refuse the call, and then it comes back around, and you know,

I just think I was I was Facetiming with my Kenyan

bestie. She's not Kenyan; she's American, actually. I have lots

of Kenyan friends too. But my my closest friend here today, we

were Facetiming, and we were speaking about how happy we were

to be women. So it's so funny you said that, and how women

need women. I was going through something deeply emotional that

you know about today, and just feeling it and sharing with her.

And she was holding space and loving me through it. And we

were, and then we were laughing and we were moving through all

the layers. And um, and she was like, "Fuck! How cool is it to

be a woman? And like, how cool is it to do this together? And

how many women are so lost because they're trying to find

all of that in what from a man, and like men can't give us men

give us something amazing, but it's not what women give us, and

we need women the most. So you know that's another gift I think

of of the courage to follow your heart and to be willing to let.

Yourself, your old self, die and be you know death and rebirth

and to be reborn again and again because like then we magnetize

like who we're meant to do life with and the experiences that

we're meant to have.

Amen. Yes, yes, yes.

Yeah.

Well, it's being with you today.

Me too. You're legend. You're amazing, my love.

I'm yeah, just celebrating you, and and I can feel the

ancientness in everything you say. Like it feels like bringing

women back, like mystery school. It feels like that, like

bringing women back to the red tent and back to the roots of

who we truly are. And that's that's your gift. And you're

still not even 40. Like you're like the oldest soul, you know,

bringing women back to the truth of who they are. Yeah,

yeah,

and and it's just through your own journey of

continuously bringing yourself back. So I love it.

Thank you. Thank you so much. I can't wait

to hear what people think of our episode.

Yes, they're gonna love it. We're gonna it's gonna

be off the charts as always. Share this episode with every

woman you know who needs to hear it, and every mother you know.

Send them to okay. Say your podcast name again. Rita Vera.

The two Latin two Latin words for mother and

true. So

Mater Vera. M a t

e r v e r

a. And Catherine Daniele, and we'll link your

email below as well, so they can get on the wait list for us.

hi@catherinedanielli.com.

And Danielly has 1l, not two. All right, thank

you. I love you. So happy to be with you again. Talk to you

soon.