212: L.A. Perkins Author of Why Brand Protection Matter with Trademark and Brand Protection Strategies for Law Firms

So please explain to us what's the difference if you have an invention, if you have a brand, if you have a startup. Do what do you need?

L.A. Perkins: Well, you may need all of them, but it's a good idea to know what you know each covers. So just generally speaking, a trademark is a it could be a word, it could be a logo, a design, a slogan, or a combination of those things. It's what you're using to sell your goods or services under that distinguishes your business from another another business, a competitor's business. So that's a trademark, generally speaking. And there's some non traditional trademarks as well, so because it really can be anything that distinguishes your business. I mean, there's smell trademarks, there's

sound trademarks, for example. So, a copyright is a an original authorship, something that's created and it's fixed in a tangible medium. So, when we think of copyright books are copyrighted, for example,

movies, TV shows, lots of

L.A. Perkins: things that can be copyrighted, but it has to it an original authorship that's fixed in a tangible medium. A patent is like a novel, a novel invention, basically, and it's getting harder and harder. Of course, to come up with like novel inventions, so it's a pretty high bar for that.

Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of Internet Marketing for Law Firms podcast, featuring the latest strategies and techniques to drive traffic to your website and convert that traffic into clients. Now here's the founder and CEO of 10 Golden Rules, Jay Berkowitz.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever time you're consuming this podcast. Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules Growth Strategies for Law Firms podcast. Now you might notice a slightly different name if you're one of the regulars, because we were formerly the Internet Marketing for Law Firms podcast. But the reality is, we do so much more at 10 Golden Rules. We do a lot of work in the growth area that we call attract, attracting more people to your website, SEO, LSAs, pay per click, AI, and we also do a lot of work in two other areas. The second area is conversion. We

do a lot of work with your team on how to get your website to convert better, on getting the right chatbot on your website, on working with your intake team on how to convert those calls into leads, how to track everything and go back and figure out what's working, and the final piece we call five star operations, where we do a lot of things to help our law firm clients get more five star Google reviews and get more referrals. So this is actually the advertising portion of the podcast, which is done now. Thankfully, you're saying thank goodness. But 10 golden rules growth strategies for law

firms, and the newly minted 10 golden rules growth strategies for law firms podcast. Great guest today, and ironically, as we do a little bit of a brand shift for 10 golden rules, we're meeting one of my favorite rock stars in the legal community, L.A. Perkins, L.A. Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules: Internet Marketing and Growth Strategies for Law Firms podcast.

L.A. Perkins: Thank you, Jay. It's great to be with you.

Now, in L.A. background is her book. In my foreground, if you're watching an audio, I'm holding up a book that is an Amazon bestseller. Congratulations, by the way.

L.A. Perkins: Thank you.

Called "Why Brand Protection Matters, and L.A. and I have known each other for a long time. We were trying to figure out certainly 18 or 19 years. We met at one of the industry conferences, and L.A. ironically, 10 Golden Rules was in an office on Federal Highway in Delray Beach in Boca Raton for five straight years exactly because I had I know I had a five year lease, and then we moved into a different facility, and LA moved into our exact office for exactly five years. Right, so

L.A. Perkins: a little longer than five years. Yeah, more

or less 10 golden years on Federal Highway, and the landlord is a good friend of ours, and he actually sold the building. So thank goodness we got out of there. Anyways, a little side story, but so La and I go way back, and she has always been, as long as I've known her, an expert on IP brand protection and the strategies around protecting your brand, so I'm thrilled that she has a book, and we can talk about the book and the bestseller. And I always start this podcast by asking our guests, "Tell us a little bit about your journey before law school and what got you to law

school.

L.A. Perkins: Well, what got me to law school was. Really, a class I took in high school that was called street law, and I really loved it. And the teacher at the time decided that she was going to have an extracurricular activity that was a mock trial team, and I tried out for the mock trial team, and I got on the mock trial team, and we ended up winning regionally, and then we won for the state of Florida, and then we went to Washington D.C. and competed nationally, and that was really the start where I was like, I'm definitely going to be a lawyer.

That's fantastic. I really wish I had that because my dad said I should have been a lawyer, and now I spend all my time hanging out with lawyers and going to conferences with lawyers and consulting to lawyers, but I think he was right. I should have gone to law school. Never too

L.A. Perkins: late, Jay.

Well, I think it's too late. So, La, yeah. So you started with this tremendous teacher in high school. I had a great teacher like that too, and she actually went on to be the leader of the political party in our province, and you know it's it's like amazing when you get one of those teachers who ends up being like an amazing, charismatic, successful, and fantastic person. And I remember she did a project because it was I think it was geography, and she did a project where we all started a farm, and we had a certain amount of money, and we could pick our you know our seeds

and our crops, and then you had to rotate your crops and stuff like that. But we learned the business of farming, and it was really fascinating. Like it was so much better, and I remember it like it was yesterday, because it was you know a real practicum, and it was really fantastic. So, but I still wish it was a mock trial. Anyways, please proceed. And after you did the mock trial, where did your career? Well, I

L.A. Perkins: went to law school, and when while I was in law school, I I worked for Florida Power Corporation, which was the the utility company in the St. Pete area, and I did. I worked on a really large employment discrimination case, and so that, you know, I learned employment discrimination, and as I that led me to getting my first job as an employment in employment law, and in the back of my mind. Soon after that, I realized that I really was interested in trademarks, and so I was trying to find my way how to get to do IP work. And you know, there were like some close calls, and I was

looking for those sorts of opportunities. and And it didn't really that opportunity didn't come about until I was about practicing for about six, seven years, when there was a case that came into the office, and it was a couple days before, before Christmas, and the largest firm client got served with an injunction, and we needed to appear at a hearing in in Colorado and federal court in Colorado, and the partner that I was working with at the time needed help, and I I was like, I'll help, I'll go with you, we'll we'll do this. I was like, I don't really know this area of the law at that time.

I'm like, but I can research and I can write, and we went the very large firm on the other side. We flew to Colorado. We put the whole dog and pony show together, and we want we prevailed in that hearing. And by the time we got to the airport, they dismissed their case, and it was in the pharmaceutical arena of IP, and that was my start in IP.

Fantastic, And so, what about your journey from working for firms to starting your own firm and building that up?

L.A. Perkins: I've always been really entrepreneurial. So even when I worked in firms, you know, I was with a business mindset, and I knew one day I wanted to have my own firm. So it was. It was just a matter of like the timing, and I think the impetus. I wasn't. I wanted to start my own firm, and my grandmother passed away and left me a small inheritance, and I thought I'm

sorry, but congratulations.

L.A. Perkins: Well, thank you, and I thought, you know, what am I going to do with this money? I mean, it was $30,000. I mean, there were lots of other grandchildren, and I decided that I was going to invest that money in a business, and I was going to start my own law firm. And that was really how it happened.

So great! And the law firm now has a great brand and title, and it is called.

L.A. Perkins: It is called Perkins Law Brand Protection. My legal entity name, you know, that's my doing business as my DBA name, my fictitious name. But that is what it is now. I mean, I've evolved marketing wise since I started practicing.

That's great, and we're going to talk a lot about IP today and protecting your IP and trademarks and copyrights. But I think it'll be valuable valuable for people to hear about your story of getting a book written and the benefits of having a book. We talked a little bit about that the other day. Talk to people about the concept of doing a book, how you got it done, the working with publishers and launching

L.A. Perkins: it. Happy to. So I always knew I wanted to write a book, and I had a few ideas in mind. And I was just sitting in my office one day, and I just gotten off the phone with a potential new client, and I was like, I'm having the same conversation over and over again, and people just don't know this information. It's out there, but they don't even know to look for it. So it was like the aha moment. Okay, I'm going to write a book about what I do, and the intention was is that I would write a book that was really easy to read, and that would help businesses avoid really costly

mistakes because the stakes are really high when you don't do things correctly in the area of intellectual property and brand protection, and so that's what motivated me. And I, you know, I go to personal development courses and marketing programs and all kinds of things. I've always learning. And several years before that, I had gone to a conference and I met a woman by the name of Ashley Mansour. And at the time, she was an author, a published author that was a bestseller, but she was working on creating a business of supporting professionals in publishing books, and I really liked

her. And I always had her in the back of my mind. When I'm ready, I'm going to call Ashley, and that's exactly what I did. I reached out to Ashley, and I signed up for her program. And she said, "If you follow my program, in 90 days, you'll have a manuscript, and I totally surrendered. And I did her programs, and in 90 days, I had a manuscript. I mean, it took about a year to go through the various editing process before the book was published, and it was a commitment, you know, because I was still working full time, so I was doing it at night and on the weekend, so I wasn't very fun,

you know, in terms of the people in my life. You know, I wasn't going out a lot during that year, but you know, she was just a great coach and worked with great professionals that helped me make it happen, which was amazing.

Congratulations! And then you launched the book; it became an Amazon bestseller. What were some of the strategies that helped you get over that hump?

L.A. Perkins: And that was part of Ashley's program, also. So she would talk about that you have to spend time like on social media, and you have to the teasers, letting people know that the book is coming, and use your, you know, the people that you're connected to. I also did use a marketing company that I engage that just specifically focused on promoting books, and so I I think that also helped as well. Yeah,

fantastic. And you mentioned that you know having a book is great, but there's other benefits. Like now you're recognized on Google, and I was told many many years ago that the you know the the books your $5 business card, and my books have been so fantastic because I get introduced all the time. Oh, you've got to talk to Jay. He's the guy who wrote the book on internet marketing. So how's how's that experience been for you?

L.A. Perkins: It's really been great and exciting, and in some ways a little unexpected. I guess I did have the vision that this would get into the the hands of my ideal client just organically, and that my phone would ring because, and somebody would say that they read my book, and that's why they're calling me. And I can't say that. And we track, you know, we we track all of this. So there's no one that's called my office yet because I wrote a book. However, as you said, Jay, handing the book out as as a business card is you know when I talk to people, it's something I can give them that's a

value that help will help them with what they're going through, is wonderful, and I've received great feedback from that. But the most significant thing, which I honestly didn't like intend, or I didn't quite appreciate how it was going to work, is by having the book online on Amazon. I I don't know Google's algorithm, but oh, I I do

no problem. I can share that.

L.A. Perkins: Okay, great. But I could, you know, we track the number of leads, and from the time my book has come out, the leads have grown exponentially and continue to grow. And you know, when ChatGPT recommends me to somebody that's asking for a brand protection attorney, I'm pretty convinced. In large part, it's the book.

It's the book and the associated blogs and the right. It's not

L.A. Perkins: exactly

the marketing. The marketing together and yeah, yeah. And I love the the umbrella that you get of what I call thought leadership that comes with the book. You, by the way, you are going to get that phone call and probably many of them because it's like the Ashley Mansour program you talked about. You held on to it, and you're like, one damn soon, I'm going to call and make that call. So you will get that call. I get it all the time. The other benefit is what I call second level networking, because, and I encourage people to think very specifically about building those

relationships with the people who can make the introductions that you're looking for, so getting the book into hands of people like business consultants and accountants and other types of business professionals who would say to someone, you know, you you don't have a trademark, you really need to talk to La. She's the book person who wrote the book on brand protection. Another thought is to have a book party and get the book into the hands of those people or some of the groups we belong to, the lawyers' networking groups. And speaking is great, you know. And here we are on a podcast

talking. I mean, obviously, I should have had you on my podcast years ago. Never thought of it? You launch the book. I'm like, oh my goodness, I've done a disservice to everybody by not sharing LA's expertise. Some of the stuff we're going to get into. So you've just scratched the surface on the benefits of the book, and make sure that your book is like your stump speech. Like, hey, you know, the seven things you need to know about brand protection or the five biggest mistakes of brand protection. And when you get that big conference speaking opportunity, get in front of room full of business

owners and make sure everybody has a book purchased by the the conference. It's a great way to to spread that umbrella of thought leadership. So I just wanted to spend that time for folks who haven't gotten the over the hump, haven't written the book, and haven't built that thought leadership umbrella for themselves. So another area that I've always wanted to cover, and we've talked about a lot, and I've even yellow sticky the page, chapter four, types of intellectual property, and this is always a stumbling block for most people. It was for me, and it is for many lawyers. Most lawyers who

are not IP lawyers don't know the difference between the four general types of intellectual property: a trademark, a copyright, a patent, and a trade secret. So please explain to us what's the difference if you have an invention, if you have a brand, if you have a startup, what do you need?

L.A. Perkins: Well, you may need all of them, but it's a good idea to know what you know each covers. So, just generally speaking, a trademark is a it could be a word, it could be a logo, a design, a slogan, or a combination of those things. It's what you're using to sell your goods or services under that distinguishes your business from another another business, a competitor's business. So that's a trademark, generally speaking. And there's some non-traditional trademarks as well. So because it really can be anything that distinguishes your business. I mean, there's smell trademarks, there's

sound trademarks, for example. So, a copyright is a an original authorship, something that's created and it's fixed in a tangible medium. So, when we think of copyright, books are copyrighted, for example.

Movies, TV shows, lots of

L.A. Perkins: things that can be copyrighted, but it has to. It an original authorship that's fixed in a tangible medium. A patent is like a novel, a novel invention, basically, and and it has to. And it's getting harder and harder, of course, to come up with like novel inventions. So, it's a pretty high bar for that. So we talked

earlier about the Google algorithm or the Coca Cola formula.

L.A. Perkins: Well, the Coca Cola formula is the next one, and that is a great example for trade secret. I mean, if you've ever gone to Atlanta and you've gone to the Coca Cola Museum, I think is what they call it. They literally have a guard in front of, and they've got like bright lights, and you know they've got a vault. I mean, that's a dramatic representation of them protecting a trade secret. But that's essentially what it is. In order for something to be a trade secret. You only let people know it on a need-to-know basis. Not everyone in your company should have access to it. You need to

make sure that there's documents in place, like confidentiality and various things, depending on what it is. All businesses have trade secrets. I mean, whether it's a client list or pricing information, those are trade secrets,

and I guess the example I used is a little bit dicey because if Google published their entire trade secrets in their patent protection, anybody could replicate, or at least know how Google creates their algorithm. So I guess there's some parts of that that you have to protect, and there's other parts that you have to keep in the vault.

L.A. Perkins: Well, you actually hit the nail on the head because sometimes the strategy is better to keep something as a trade secret versus a patent, where you have to disclose it and explain, you know, how you're doing it, and then it's out in the public, right? And you have protection for a certain amount of time, but people can get around patents in various ways. So,

all right, now let's talk about the first step: brand protection for beginners. And I'm going to make a mess of this, but I often get the phone call from like my nephew started a golf clothing line, and a mom and pop folks have an invention, and I think there's some basic stuff that I always advise them. And here's just some of Jay's basics. And please correct me because I'm going to be wrong. But one one thing a lot of people misinterpret is they might have a great name, and the domain name is not available the first time you do a search in GoDaddy. The you know nameide.com is

not available, but half of the time that name is actually available for sale because many many years ago all the early domainers went out and bought everything, every word in the English dictionary.com, and every combination like GetName.com or Ename.com, and they bought those like a real estate entrepreneur buying land and hoping the the city would move out to the farms and they would be able to sell those in years. And I've I've heard a lot of people talk about domainers, people who do this for a living, buying the land because it's for their their grandkids because they

know that those domains will be valuable one day. So the first thing is a lot of times those domains are available for sale. An example, actually, about a farm. My mom owned a farm, and she had me buy the domain, and for about 10 years I was holding this domain and paying $11 a year or whatever for this domain, and she had sold the farm. And someone called me up and inquired about that domain name. They said, "There's no website. Would you sell the domain? And I said, "Sure. I held the domain for 10 years. It was $11 a year. If you give me $111, I'll be happy to sell you the domain. So a lot of

times the domain's available, and the person doesn't even realize they're paying $11 a year. They'd be happy to give it to you, or happy to give it to you for a small amount. And a lot of times, GoDaddy or someone else will sell that domain. And a lot of times, it's listed. Like if it's listed for $1,000, normally you can get it for 750 or $800. Another thing is is a quick USPTO search, and I'll let LA explain that in a little bit more detail. And and just a quick Google search. So the first thing I say is you might be able to get your name, but do a quick Google search and a USPTO

search to make sure nobody else has trademarked it. Don't spend three years like for my nephew. I said don't spend three years building your brand, building your following, building your website, and then you're going to find out you can't protect that domain, or somebody else is going to sue you for infringement. So, LA, talk about the USPTO.gov is a place where we can do a very very simple word mark or name search, and I of course, would do no justice to explaining

L.A. Perkins: it. Happy to talk about that, but if I could just go back for a second to talking about the domain name, because that is a misconception that a lot of people have. They think if they are able to purchase the domain name, then they own that name, and all that is is you own the domain related to that name. So a USPTO search is the United States Patent and Trademark Office. They have a database that they keep track of all the pending marks and registered marks as well as dead trademarks, and you can do searches to see whether there's another company that has the same name. It's a

little harder to search for similar names, and that's why it's great to do that search initially, but not good to stop at that at that search because there's a lot of other information that you'd be missing. But and then then the other thing is in terms. Interpreting those results, I'll give you an example: Dove Chocolate and Dove the Soap. They though both have the name Dove. They coexist, you know, in different areas. So just because you see a name there doesn't mean it's necessarily going to be a problem for you to move forward with, right? It needs more analysis, and your comment then

about doing a Google search, well, that's good too. Just preliminarily, because the information that you get with a Google search are common law results. How people that may maybe you're going to find a business that is using that name, and then again, it's interpreting that result. What does that mean? Does that preclude you from using it or not? Or what limitations? I mean, there's a number of factors that go into that analysis.

Fantastic, that's great. So that's just the beginning. Like if you're thinking of creating a name. Now let's talk about a more advanced in instance where I own a law firm. I'm a listener of the 10 Golden Rules Growth Strategies for Law Firms podcast, and I've never done anything to protect my name, but we've been having some success. We're 1015, years into it. We've run some TV ads. Maybe we created, you know, a catchy name like, you know, there's the Hammer and the Morgan and all these different brand names out there. So, what are the more advanced considerations, and

where does someone start with protecting their brand? Is it a copyright, a trademark, a patent? What's the conversation there?

L.A. Perkins: Generally, we're talking about protecting their name or their company logo, logo or slogan. We're talking about trademarks, and with respect to that, well, there's different strengths of trademarks. So, you know, trademarks if they are descriptive, it goes from generic, descriptive, suggestive trademarks, arbitrary, fanciful. So there's a continuum of what's going to be protectable, and when you say name, there's an objection that often comes up when you're trying to protect a name of something, and that's that. It's it's functions mainly as as a surname, for example. So you have

to use it for a certain number of years to really be able to even protect it. But if I was advising a law firm, which and I've done that, so if I was advising a law firm and I protected my own trademarks, you really you have to be creative in in in how you're looking to protect it. So you may not just do it as the name; you may have the name in a design, the way it's it's uniquely presented. I'll give you an example, like the name Miller. If somebody had a law firm, Miller Law Firm, that's a very common name, that would probably be a problem, right? But if you did Miller and it

was stylized in a very particular way that was unique to you, that would be a way to potentially protect it, and if

you use the Miller High Life font, you wouldn't be able to protect

L.A. Perkins: it. Right. Well, I mean, you know, and then you have to be careful because if you use this a different name than somebody else has registered, but you're using it in the same stylized format, that somebody could be confused by it? That's also a problem.

Now we had a great webinar last month, and we had four local grassroots lawyers, and one of them had a particularly clever strategy, where he has a billboard slogan that's a variation of his name, and what he'll do is he'll put that rather compelling name on a T-shirt, and he'll do the T-shirt in the exact colors of his local college team and his local professional sports team. He'll give out 1000 T-shirts either at the bar the night before the game of the college game or walking into the stadium, and there's 1000 billboards walking around the game with his rather

provocative slogan in the exact colors and font style of the team, but with no sponsorship of the team, is that crossing a line? It

L.A. Perkins: may not be. It depends on. It really just depends. It would have to be a comparison because you could just because a team has certain colors, they don't own those colors, and you've got a T-shirt now that is not a soccer jersey. You know, I mean, like if, for example, I'm trying to think of a scenario. Somebody you had a a football jersey, and it looked exactly like an NFL. Football jersey, and they put a slogan on it that was theirs. I think they're getting closer to a problem where you know the public may think there's an association between that NFL team and them, and I think

that's you know likely they would get a cease and desist letter.

There's one of the companies at the legal conferences actually does that. I remember they had Lakers, and like the L.A. Lakers, where it just there's a stylized Lakers, and it was a yellow shirt with the purple logo, and they put leads, and it was exactly in the font of the Lakers. I mean that they weren't trying to sell it or anything, but it was very clever. And by the second day, a bunch of people picked up the free shirts, and they were walking around promoting the company.

L.A. Perkins: Yeah, well, that's that that's great, and you know, I mean, there's situations where people are doing it for comedy, and and it's and it's not meant to be. It's tough though when you are in business and you're looking to monetize and make money. It that's when the lines, you know, are are you know people are more stringent upon what you can do and can't do. Because like, if you're monetizing that, and like the Lakers, you know, they they may have an issue with that.

Yeah. Well, if they ever see it, right? That's great. So I'm sure there's some very famous mistakes in people who blew it with trademarks and and brand protection and some famous cases. Do you have any of those examples to share with us?

L.A. Perkins: I mean, there isn't a specific case that I have in mind, but I think what's really important for people to know that comes up is if you haven't done the research in advance of using a name or slogan, and you've become successful, and you're doing really well, the stakes are very high. And what do I mean by that? If you are infringing or could be deemed to be an infringer, you will have to rebrand. But in addition to rebranding, if the other company like, and we're talking about law firm, so let's say yours is similar, your slogan is similar to another law firm slogan, or it's

the same, they and they can prove it. Of course, they have to be able to prove it. They can say that you got business because people came to you thinking you were that other company, and therefore all the money you made needs to be disgorged and turned over to them. So the stakes are pretty high for messing up.

Yeah, there's dozens of Morgan law firms. I know it because I do the search often when we're trying to demo something about Morgan and Morgan, and Morgan Law Firm comes up all the time, and those folks are definitely not changing their their last name. La, this was a lot of fun. What's the final word of advice you would give to someone who hasn't done anything about their brand, their slogan, or their trademark?

L.A. Perkins: Talk to a an experienced lawyer. Talk. Feel free to call me, but talk to somebody. Don't go it at it alone because there are so many nuances and things that can get messed up. And you want to have someone in your corner that that knows how to help you. Step

one: buy the book. Why brand protection matters. L. A. Perkins or contact Perkins Law Firm. Now we're you're not getting off that easy because we're still going to do the one-liners, and I've done this for over I think like 15 years. We've been doing this podcast and we've asked this question of some very famous people. So La, I'm personally into time hacks and productivity, and so I love to ask people, what's one of your tips for either getting things done, productivity, or any apps you use for personal productivity?

L.A. Perkins: I have switched over, so I use Clio as my the software in the firm, but which which is really helps with productivity. But more specifically, I've just started using the their Clio work, which is their whole AI package, and I just had my training like last week, and I am blown away by what it can do and how powerful it is. So I'm already saved a whole bunch of time by by utilizing it.

That's good to hear because I know there's been some debate out there about the the case management softwares and their building building AI onto an existing platform versus the AI native platforms that are building some case management capability, and we'll be interesting to see where that goes over the next couple years. The next question is best business books? Question mark.

L.A. Perkins: Oh my gosh, I'm I'm like reading 10 at the same time. the The one that I'm reading right now is the AI. Driven leader and Jeffrey

Woods, yeah,

L.A. Perkins: that I'm really enjoying. I enjoy Maxwell books. There's a whole bunch of books. Did you learn crit

yet from Jeffrey Woods?

L.A. Perkins: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Yeah. So what he says, and and literally, here's my yellow sticky. If you're on the the podcast, you won't see it, but it. He says, write this down and stick it on your computer. So it's C R I T context role interview task. So when you do any kind of AI search, you want to give it the context. Today I'm going to do research on protecting a brand for my nephew's golf company role. Your role. You're a brilliant IP protection lawyer, like L. A. Perkins. Interview. Ask me three non-consecutive questions to clarify the task. Task. I want you to do an exhaustive Google search and

domain search to see if anybody else is using brand X Y Z, and so when you write a great prompt, you get a great result from AI. So thank you, Jeffrey Woods. C R I T. Write it down. Stick it on your computer. The other thing, by the way, he says stick on your computer, and I've got it here too. Can AI do this? And literally everything you do, ask yourself the question: Like, if I wrote a really great prompt, could I save myself an hour and do this in five minutes with Claude or Google AI?

L.A. Perkins: Yeah, that's great. That's great. I still have a lot to learn with AI.

Yeah, I'm glad you're reading that one. That's fantastic. Next question. You got 15 minutes, and you're waiting for someone in an appointment or something, and you subscribe to some great blogs, some fantastic podcasts, and some YouTubes. You got 15 minutes, and something hits your feed. What do you stop everything and listen to or read?

L.A. Perkins: I like Law 360. Law 360 highlights, and and I get in particular IP cases, and so it comes in daily, and and I get the latest rulings on cases. I that is yeah. You got it. You got to want to know what's happening.

Have any podcasts or YouTubes?

L.A. Perkins: No, I wouldn't say there's anything that I'm listening to continuously.

And hopefully, the 10 Golden Rules growth strategies for law firms podcast will become absolutely part of your regular daily. And then the next question is super easy: Who should we refer to LA Perkins?

L.A. Perkins: Really, we're talking about law firms. So law firms or any any business that has a unique brand and wants to make sure it's uniquely theirs, and either either they're on the front end of that, or they received a cease and desist letter, and they need to talk with somebody about how to manage it. I've dealt with law firms, for example, that use have inadvertently through third parties used photographs that weren't theirs. They were photographs taken by other people, and then they get a cease and desist letter and a copyright infringement notice. So that is one, and they'll always

say it was my marketing company that did it. I didn't even know.

Yikes! And last question: Where can people get in touch with you?

L.A. Perkins: 561-467-4001. My email is lperkins at brandprotection law. You can check me out on the website, which is www.brandprotection.law. La,

this was overdue. I'm so glad we got to do it today. Thank you so much.

L.A. Perkins: Me too. Thank you, Jay. I really appreciate you having me on.