Why Link Building Is Really About Relationships, Not Metrics

Hi everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of Relationships Rule. Today, I am happy to be talking with

Maria Caterina Johannesson, the founder of Links and Maria, who

helps brands grow visibility through link building, SEO, and

honest storytelling. She also happens to be, and this is a

funny comment here. I'm going to read because I'll tell you why

in a minute. But she also happens to be a proud plant

parent, and that's not just a fun detail. She uses the idea of

watering a plant as a way to explain what it really takes to

build a brand that lasts. And it's funny because you're also a

proud new mom of a real baby, and I think that's probably more

to the point at this point in time in your life, right? So

welcome to the show, Maria, and may I call you just Maria for?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Oh yeah, please do. That's perfect.

So you're coming to us today all the way

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: from from

from.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Stockholm, Sweden. Yes,

so exciting! I love it, and and you could be

next door for all we care. It's so so amazing the way the world

works now. It is, yeah. So all right, let's start there. You

often compare growing a brand to caring for a plant. Where did

that idea come from?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Oh, it's just my nerdy, quirky side.

I'm just-I've always felt like like a misfit in this space.

People, I jokingly say that. Oh, people are so much like smarter,

and most people in the space are like more tech savvy.

Yes,

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: but you know, I think I wouldn't

necessarily call it my unique selling point, but in a way that

I differ, maybe is that I, you know, I I just I just have to

blend in my personality. I just have to, you know, take that

position, and that's also relates to how I work and how I

want to spread my work method because I believe in the end of

the day that people collaborate and they choose people and brand

that they like, not necessarily the best, like whatever that

means. But

yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's what I think drew me

to the conversation with you initially is because you're all

about people and relationships, and and that's very different

for people in SEO and and the the tech side of of websites and

so on. So that I loved, and thank you, yeah, it's just

looking at your website too, and it said something about sales is

building relationships, and building relationships is a big

part of a link building campaign. Who would have

thought, right? So to me, yeah, that that was strange. Okay, so

how did Lynx and Maria come to be? How long? Yeah, working on

your own, and how did it come to be?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Thank you for asking. So, I initially,

if we can go back 20 years or so plus, I used to I used to follow

and follow along and go my dad to his work, and he's a

copywriter. He's a he's a great copywriter. So I've always been

surrounded by creativity, and he has always like I on on the same

on at the same time I'm very I've always had that creative

spark, but I'm also very, you know, like wish that life was a

an Excel sheet.

You know, never mean that

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: one. Yeah, you know, but then you

have kids, and it's like, okay, never mind. But but so I've

always, from a very young age, I've had discussions with him,

and whenever I've asked him, you know, what do you think I should

do? Should I should should we do this this way or that way? And

this create creativity seed he he's planted in me has always

been like it's always been very encouraging to me when it comes

to trying new things. Like try it, just do it like that, and

that has been very. I just think that has really nurtured that

side of me. But then, if we fast forward, I still went to you

know university and got a degree in a completely different field

and started working in sales and so forth. And again, I was not

the most tech savvy in in sales. But why I think why I think I

did so well was because I actually, and I know this is

important for you as well. I used to call prospect. And

clients, when just to be like, "Hey, what's going on? or "Happy

birthday, and send these emails, and that's how I, you know,

became quote unquote successful, because I it was not just when I

needed something from them. I showed some. I actually

remembered what people told me. So yeah, and then I started.

Actually, I started a Swedish agency, and then I had. I always

had this urge, like, "Oh, I want to, you know, because we're what

10 million people in Sweden, so it's not like a huge market. And

I always, I always had this urge that I wanted to like go

internationally, and and then all, of course, all of these

limiting beliefs. You know, my English is not that good. But

then, just to go back to this little story, I thought about. I

remember when my dad told me, "Why not? So, you know, maybe

your listeners are thinking like, "Oh my God, her English is

awful. But

hey,

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: you know, I'm just I'm showing up

and I'm being authentic, and if I get the grammar, which yeah,

you know, then so so be it. But again, I think if if if people

want to work me with me, they like my style. I think they are

okay with me be English being this second language. So that

was a very long answer, but

no, but I I you know I mean it's it's so for me

fascinating and and I'm almost envious that most Europeans who

English is a second language for speak English so much better

than any of us speak their language, if at all. I mean, I

know nothing in Swedish, so you know you got me completely you

know baffled in that one. But like just how to how to how to

pronounce your last names, you know, like so it was, you know,

for me that's amazing, and and and you're doing very well, so

don't worry about it. Why do you think link building gets treated

like merely a technical task when it might actually be a

relationship task?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: That's a very good question, and just

to clarify for your listeners, I did not write that question

because sometimes when you go on podcasts, that you're like

you're saying like, oh, that was a good question, and then it was

like I wrote that question, but I but I didn't write this

question, so just I just want to put it out there. So, I think

that we are still in this very mindset that we want things to

be like, oh, domain rating 30, domain rate, domain authority,

whatever, because it's easy to understand. I think

relationships and human beings and create a connection is just

so much more complex, and so I think that is a big. It's a big

factor, but also I do think it is also about the expert, so to

speak, so to say. Like the link building expert is that is a way

of position themselves maybe as a little bit superior. I do

think that, and I think I think we are we are heading in a way

into the towards the better direction because we're talking

more about relevancy rather than like getting all the metrics

right and so forth.

Okay.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Yeah.

Yeah, because for me, most of the time, the

metrics and the numbers give me a headache. It doesn't mean

anything. So, so I would think that if you are approaching that

part of somebody's visibility and and so forth, that from a

more human angle, that would make more sense to me. So

whatever you have to do with the backlinks and the numbers, fine.

But that's not right. Make it work is is kind of where I'd be

coming from. So, what does a real human relationship look

like behind a link that's actually helping the brand?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: So, can you say the question again?

What does a what

does a real human relationship look like behind a

link that actually helps a brand?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: That is a relationship that is more

than just transactional. So like I I pay you most often is.

Money, but it can be other things as well. It can be like I

don't know. Maybe you have access to a community or

whatever, and you give like it's some, but it's transactional. So

I would say that in the best world, a link that is more

relationships driven doesn't stop when the link goes live; it

continues. So, so maybe you let's say that you added let's

say that you added commentary as a thought leadership kind of

thing, a quote to to an existing article that would actually

benefit this this company, and whenever you know the link goes

live afterwards, you continue to have like a collaboration with

them. Maybe you go and do some I don't know a workshop together,

or maybe you know you start to jump on a call and just discuss

like how can we network like that. That is what I

see. So how would you explain that or add to that

if I say to you, okay, so I've done, I've been a guest on many

people's podcasts, but I haven't taken true advantage and put the

the little snippets and the information on my website

because I get behind and it costs money to get it done and

for someone to do it, and so I need to do that because I'm

really behind. Is that to my benefit to have them there, or

is that the other person's benefit?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: So it depends on where you would

put this information. Let's say you have,

because I do have a a media page. Let's say, okay,

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: okay. So if you were to have a media

page, and then you write, you know, I've been, I see this

quite often that brands, you know, they they write what

podcast they have attended, right? So they like, oh, what

was it? This podcast, and we discuss this and this topic.

Yeah, I might

have a visual, like a little video clip, and

okay link to the podcast.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Okay, okay. So then the back link is

essentially gonna be if you if you add the link to the podcast

that or the website or the brand that owns or and hosts the

podcast, that's going to be the backlink. So you are you are

essentially saying, hey, I want to you I want to blend my

entity, as we call them, or I. We can also say identity, but I

want to blend my identity with this particular brand's

identity. But they are getting the backlink, so per

per

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: se they benefit, but but not

necessarily. It's it's not like it's not a it's not um how to

say you still win win it and also it's still a win for you

sorry because what happens when you go to podcasts and

essentially you know sharing your core message over and over

again is that of course you're going to feed into the overall

you know, digital landscape and AI search is going to pick up.

You know, like oh, that's why I say you know we are going to

move towards we're moving or we are already in it. But I think

it's going to become even more important in this ecosystem:

personal brand, personal branding, and essentially, I

actually want to take that back. I want to say identity, because

personal brand can easily feel almost not always, but as a

performance. I want it to be because. So I, I, I want that's

an important distinction.

Yeah, yeah.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Because I think with AI, AI can do so

much, and we should take advantage of that. But the

biggest differentiator going forward, no matter if we no

matter if we're talking about you being interested in a

digital PR campaign, you're doing you know LinkedIn

marketing or whatever, your biggest differentiator is going

to be you, your yourself, and you know that's how people are

going to connect to you ultimately.

Right. So I was going to ask you. You probably

just answered this question. How has the rise of AI search search

changed the way that you think about visibility for your

clients.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Yeah, it's it's just whenever I start

a new project, I always ask a prospect or a client, you know,

what do you want to be known for? Because again, you need to,

in order for. To have a successful link building

campaign where you can demonstrate not only expertise

but differentiation, we need to establish that identity. What is

actually happening, and like who do you serve? What does like?

But like the ownership, the talk of topic ownership is so

crucial, and I I like I know it's not for everybody, but the

more the more you can show, and you are willing to share about

you. And I'm not saying that you have to like trauma dumping or

anything like that. I'm just saying that you have. Can you

show 10% You are in control how much you share. But but again,

like people do business with people they like,

yeah,

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: and I think that is so important. So

I really want your listeners to remember that that they don't

choose the best, quote unquote.

So the thing that question has how things have

changed has also changed what I do because on LinkedIn, you

know, one of the biggest pieces that I help people create or

update we shall shall we say is their about section, and now

that section on LinkedIn is even more important because the

algorithms are now looking at your content based on what

you're actually saying in your about section about the work

that you do. So if they don't jive, then they're not going to

send it out to people because they're confused. So I hear what

you're saying, and I think I think when we're clear on who is

our audience and what our USP is. What makes us different or

special or whatever is what we believe to be true, right? And

then if everyone gets that, then they know. Oh yeah, you want

someone who will help you with doing this in a such and such

way, then you need to talk to Maria or you need to talk to

Janice, right? So, so I like that a lot. What would you say

happens to a brand that skips the relationship work and just

chases quick wins? I I know what your answer is going to be,

basically, but. Is it short-term gain? Isn't going to get you

that long-term or short-term win? However, yeah.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: But I think we also, yeah, I think

we also need to think about and remember where what direction we

are heading towards, and we are heading towards a future where

automation is going to be everywhere. AI agents going to

be everywhere, and

over the world. You know that, right?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: I know. I know. Yes. Yeah, it is.

So we have to nurture. kind of like going back to basics,

almost.

Yeah.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: So I think, I think, and I've seen

this person. I see it every single day. the The rise of like

and the need for community, for belonging, for connection, for

you know, meditation, Mindfulness, if knitting,

growing-it's just so. I think it's a renaissance coming as a

as a as a as a like an answer to where we're heading. Does that?

Yeah, like

an antidote, you know. Antidote. Exactly.

Exactly. Yes. Totally. Because I'm finding that more and more

people are are going. I'm not one of them, but more and more

people are going to in-person things now and getting back to.

I'm not one of them because I don't like driving in the big

city, and you know I'm happy to talk to people. But this gives

me the connection in in a lot of ways. That yeah, there was

something knowing that you can do that now is better. You know,

knowing we couldn't when when COVID was here was different.

You know, it was a different time. So, can you share a story,

perhaps, about a connection that led to something bigger than you

expected? I'm putting you on the spot. I know. Oh

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: yeah, you do, and it's not my

question, so I haven't. Ah, that's

okay. Something maybe someone you worked with

that you were able to like. They they came to work with you

because they believe in your philosophy and your way of

working, but they didn't realize how much it would impact them.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Yeah. So actually, I have a I have a

story. So this was perhaps two years ago, and this was me

before having a baby. So now, back then, you know, I was

really plant mama. I was like plant mama deluxe, you know.

Now, not so much, but. So I was, I was, you know, in being in my

true element. I was, you know, like, oh, I had my sunflower

seeds there, and I had my little cucumber plant, and oh, I was

just like, life is good, you know. And I was, I jumped on a

call with a prospect, and no worries. No, that's fine. I

jumped on a call with the prospect, and I don't know what

happened. I just felt this urge to bring my actually a little

zucchini plant, and I just was like, "Look at this little

plant! Isn't it amazing? And I would, and the second I after I

done that, I did that. I I thought to myself, oh no! Why

did I do that? That was very unprofessional of me, you know.

But it was very like in the moment I was being very you know

plant mama, and this prospect she she like I remember this.

She turned her camera around and she was like, look at my plants,

and it was beautiful. So yeah,

you bonded.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: We did

bond. Yes, yeah, bonded. I love it. Okay, you

somewhere talked about struggling in my readings,

struggling with perfectionism early in your business. Yeah,

how did that shape the way you build relationships now?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: I think definitely it has shaped

me, and I think also moving from plant mama to human mama has

helped me or has forged helped me because when I was a plant,

just a plant, Mama, I I had the time. I actually had too much

time to, you know, wanting to get the email right and the tone

and and so forth. And I don't have that luxury anymore. I

don't, and that's not. And I I really want to clarify here. I

do not mean that I automate things now. I don't. But you

know, I'm not like in this quote-unquote busy now. If you

know busyness when you're not actually busy, you're just like

maybe you don't. I don't have to reread that email like 10 times.

Maybe I can just you know, actually send it and get on with

it. Yeah, yeah. You certainly get come up if you

understand this term a comeuppance when you have a

child because you don't have that luxury of time anymore.

It's true. Very interesting. The only time that that kicks in is

when you are a grandparent because then you can give them

back, which is beautiful. I love it. Like we had my granddaughter

yesterday. Picked her up after school. She's in second grade.

She's seven, and we had her for dinner. But then it was time to

get take her home, and it was just perfect, right? You know,

it was just enough. You know, it was good. Yes,

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: perfect.

Love her dearly. Anyway, so what does consistency

look like for you on a normal week, especially trying to

balance things as an as a mom?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Consistency is actually paradox because

before I got my baby, I was very. I always used to set the

night before, I used to always write down like, "Oh, tomorrow

I'm going to do this and this. That doesn't work when you got

it. You can have this idea you want to do certain things, so I

think that's a is a big shift for me that I well I have to

have that room for flexibility, but also to sit with that you

know that feeling, and not to blame myself that whatever I

planned to do did not happen. So that has been a huge part of me.

And then actually, what allows me to be consistent is also

quote unquote like when leave the building to actually go out.

Not only does it help for, you know, to actually get new

perspectives and actually go out and breathe fresh air, but you

know, just actually take that break because it's it's like you

are always attending, and you are there for this tiny little

human who is. I mean, it's mind blowing. It's it's honestly

scares me at sometimes that I am like I'm responsible for this.

It's it's like this huge task. It's it's overwhelming. So I'm

trying to give myself like remember that motherhood is it's

it's very complex. It's not just one thing, and it's okay. It's

it's ebb. It's ebb and flow.

Yes, for sure. So if someone is just starting to

think about visibility for their brand, what. The first

relationship they should invest in.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Oh, they should invest in the

relationship with themselves for sure.

Okay.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: No, but seriously, and this ties

back to because you want to really establish a good, you

want to establish a good baseline of who you are, and

going back to the identity, you want to establish what you want

to be known for, and so you can show that in an authentic way.

And not only that, not only on your like website, but that you

can share this message and this presence and this identity

across the whole ecosystem, wherever your audience is paying

attention, because this relationship with yourself is

ultimately gonna evolve in that your target audience not only

understand you, but they are gonna feel understood.

So you have a strategy that you use with

clients that step by step strategy. Do you want to give us

an inkling of those so that people know how you work?

Because you are covering more than just link link building,

right?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Yeah, yeah. So I've I've talked about

it quite a bit now with the topic ownership. I always start

with that. You know, like what do you want to be known for? My

background in sales. I I always want to you know look into what

is your what are your most profitable products and

services, but I also want to make sure that this, these

services or products, like long term, that you like four years

time, what will that? What will this look like? You know, is the

market very you know shaky? You know, I would look at that, and

then I would also I would really, we would define

entities. You know what what entities can we should we should

we? I use the word sell, but it's not like really selling.

It's more like showing up in an authentic way. What entities can

we show up and show and get in front of the right people and

other entities? So an entity, you know, can be like services.

It's your brand, but it's also a person. So I would normally

heavily focus on if the owner or the per the owner is okay with

it. I would focus on leaning into the the person behind the

brand, and I I would get a good understanding. You know how how

into their thinking. You know I would I would really like watch

a good amount of podcasts. How like I want to I want to get

inside their brain, right? And then I would I would really sit

down with with with the owner, and also we would we would like

clarified all of these topics, and then we want to get a sorry

topics for content.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Oh, sorry, no topics that you want

to own as a business. So, for if I take myself, for instance, I

am a link building specialist. I work in digital PR. So, the

topics that I maybe want to own, it can be, you know, like

relationships marketing. It can be, you know, digital PR. It can

be SEO. It can be, but it can also be, and I think this is

often of often of overlooked, softer things like empathy. It

can be, I don't know, that you are the quirky one. Yeah, like

we have to tie it back to that personality.

Got it. Okay.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: So that's what I mean, and then I

would get a good understanding. You know, what, where are your

target audience currently paying attention? Who who already has

their trust, and why is that? And then I would think and ask.

We would have a conversation. You know, what other topics are

they interested in, and where can we establish a logical

crossover between who you are and what you want to promote,

and who you are, and so forth, and the sales perspective, and

to what your audience Cares about, and this is where they

get interesting because, and this is also why link building

and digital PR is difficult because it's not just you cannot

just push a button you have to you have to really think about

what people what your target audience is actually. Interested

in and so link building has been become much harder, but it's

definitely more interesting. I'd say so. Then we could perhaps

you know there's many many ways, but we could we could think

about you know what if we talk about if we go down that thought

leadership route, we could we could think about let's say that

you run a leadership agency or executive coaching. So, and we

have discussed and that we have discussed and found that that

another crossover angle could be mindfulness that the that you

know leaders on a this is also one thing I want to mention I

always ask and I think for to myself what what does a week

look like for your prospect because that is a very good way

of getting that creative thinking going. So, if you're a

leader, for instance, maybe you have, I don't know, like you are

stressed, and you know, maybe you work overtime, and you could

really benefit from, you know, doing some mindfulness. So then

I would, I would perhaps reach out to real businesses that they

don't profit from, like they they profit from their products

or services, and I could I would perhaps target like in the

wellness sector, and let's say that this leadership coach

is

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: also mindfulness trained or is well

experienced in that. What we could do is that we could

approach some of these wellness sites, and we could offer this

site, like we could offer them a commentary like, "Oh,

mindfulness has has I see this all the time when I when I coach

leaders that mindfulness is a really important tool, and I

like something that would genuinely add value to the on

their

website.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Exactly on their website, website, and

then that

becomes something that would link back to your

website.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Exactly,

great example. Okay, that's good.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: And so, yeah.

Okay, no, I like that. And then, so you're

looking for places that you can, for for companies or for people

that could use your services, but you're looking for different

ways to collaborate with them in a way and and or win win

whatever you know give them something. Maybe it's a offer of

a would it could it be like it's commentary, but maybe it's an

opportunity to get a free mindfulness exercise if they

click here and it takes them to your website. That kind of

absolutely. Okay.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. And then you talk about email as

well in your work that you help people develop, and I love this

because it's right after my own heart. I saw somewhere you you

gave an example. I can't see where it is now of emails, like

when people start with "I hope you are well. Like I just cringe

when I I know because just get to the point, but do it anyway.

Yeah. Okay. So this is fun, and I'm starting to see the value of

you know the work that you do is very useful for the majority of

people that don't really see that there's some hidden

Opportunities there, yes, yes, yes. I think so,

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: definitely. Because what you're essentially

doing is that you want you are getting access to important

neighborhoods, like I used to say. Yeah, that's what it is.

So, yeah, that may hopefully result in a in a backlink or a

mention or citation, but it can lead to so much more. And we

should we should always, you know, strive for that. And

that's where I see where we are heading towards. That I

personally don't believe in automating emails. I do think we

can use automation and AI tools to some to some extent when it

comes to prospecting. But when it comes to connecting with

another human being, for. Me, I mean, maybe I, I am weird, so

it's not like maybe I'm weird, yeah. But I just, I just feel it

would be genuinely weird if I would be like prompting, so I,

in order for me to connect with a person, it just, it, it, it

doesn't sit well, well in me.

Yeah, no, I, I, what you've done is, for me,

you've kind of opened up a thought pattern where, I mean,

I'm talking to people, new people that I've met a lot, and

sometimes I love this person and I want to find a way to do

something together, and we're both feeling the same way. But

but this wasn't even even mentioned. I mean that's another

aspect that well what if we put something on each other's

website like I never even thought about that so that's

that's just a whole new thing and it's just a small piece of

what you do but I realize that no this has been this is great I

have to ask you a non work related question because I used

to have foreign students when my kids were little and they come

and stay with us, and they go to English school and learn

English. And I had one girl from Germany. I remember, and she was

one of my favorites. And she was really, she knew I was. My

background is teaching, and and so she would ask me questions

about grammar things and whatever, but the people that

were teaching in this school, it was an English like

British-based program, and so they used some words that

weren't North American favored, and they used some

pronunciations that were different. And I want to know

how you learned English. Was it from somebody that was British.

Yeah. So for asking. Yeah.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: No. No. I. I love it. I love the

curiosity of teachers. You just no. Honestly, I don't say that

as fake flattery. Is I I do I do. Um. So I actually went to an

international college.

Okay.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: So I and at that college we had

teachers. You know, we had teachers from all over the

world. We had teachers from Australia, the U.S. It's like

all all

over the place. So

so so then that the the piece of the question I

haven't asked yet is your pronunciation of words that have

an a in it, a short a, which to me is a, and you say you don't

say plants, you say plants, and lots of words like that. And so

I was wondering whether that came from being Swedish, and

maybe a's are never meant, never said in that format, or in that

foul sounding thing because to me an a is either a or a unless

it's put with an r then it's r and so on but you know English

is a really screwy language but but I just wonder where that

comes from because you say that with other words too you don't

say the a as a short a. So I'm just curious. There's nothing

right or wrong. Don't get

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: me. No, no, no. It's funny you say

that because I'm part of you know a community, and we have

like once a week we have like a sit down and we talk and just

like encouragement. How are we doing? What are you for? What

like that? Nice.

Yeah, it's very nice. So it's funny you say that because

whenever whenever I go there and I'm like, oh yeah, I've been to

another podcast, and they always. It's funny you say that

because they laugh. They're like podcast. So so I'm gonna tell

them. I'm gonna send them this, and I'll be like, "Yeah, yeah. I

don't know

where it came from. Like, how did you learn

that pronunciation?

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: I don't. Yeah,

it's not get. It's your individuality, so

don't ever change it. But it was just curious to me because,

yeah, in some in some ways, it. I don't know. It's very. It's

got that upper crust Britishness about it.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Yeah, it's it's very interesting. You

you mentioned that. That that really that really made me

giggle.

Well, I love words and I love grammar, and so

you know I just I had to ask. And thank you for allowing me to

do that. Of course. So any last words for my audience? Where

they can find you, and I'll put it on my website. And or sorry,

on in with the podcast. And I don't know. Maybe we'll talk

about putting it on the website. And then, and then, yeah, how

they can find you. And any last words about visibility and

relationships, etc.

Maria-Katarina Johannesson: Yeah. So thank you again for having

me. It's been fantastic. It's been fantastic, and I just

really want to emphasize how how beautiful it is to actually have

human connection and. How important it is!

Relationships-they really, they really rule, and I think they

are gonna just gonna get more and more important. So I, I want

to thank you for that. Really, as for me, myself, and I, you

can Google me at Linza Maria, one word, or if you're up for

the challenge, you can write Maria Caterina Johanneson. You

can find me on LinkedIn, links Maria. You can find me on TikTok

if you're up for that jazz, or insert. Actually, just started

Instagram, so I think I have like 15 followers. So please

help me. So, so I, I'm, I'm, I want to hit like twin at least,

and I'm stuck. And as for visibility, I, I want to leave

you with a recurring theme is that I've talked about that I

think can be summarized as this, the future is human.

Love it. It's so true. And you remind me that you

know visibility is not something that you force. It's something

you grow one honest connection at a time. And if you're working

on building your brand right now, I hope this conversation

gave you a fresh way about to think about what it really takes

to be seen. So, yeah, I think it's an interesting conversation

in this this crazy world that we're in right now. And I think

I do believe that AI has its place, and I think there's a lot

that it's made faster and easier for us. But it still makes

mistakes too, and and and there's certain things that it

makes sense to use it for, but don't let that replace the human

touch because that's so important still, and more so

today. I think as I agree with you entirely. So thank you again

for joining us, and thank my audience for being here. Thanks

for listening and watching, and I will see you next time on

Relationships Rule. Remember to stay connected and be

remembered.