Ditch the Elevator Pitch: How to Start Real Networking Conversations | RR386

Have you ever stood at the door of a

networking event, name tag in hand, and thought about turning

around and going home? My guest today understands that feeling

better than most. Greg Peters started his career as a computer

programmer, spending his days with code rather than people.

Today, he's known as the Reluctant Networker and

Association Speaker, podcast host, and author of "Hello and a

The Reluctant Networker's Guide to Survival

and Success at Your Next Business Gathering." Welcome to

the show, Greg.

Thank you so much, Janice.

It's a pleasure to have you here. It's been a

while, coming in, and I know we were introduced by my. I call

him my good friend, Coach Jim Johnson, because he's amazing

and was so friendly right from the minute I met him. So, and

he's such a supporter of all of us. I think probably you find

that too, right?

He is an ultimate networker. He and I actually

were at a National Speakers Association annual conference,

and we happened to be on the same bus going back to the

airport. That we struck up a conversation. You know, we

talked for probably a good 20 minutes while we were en route,

and after that, you know, we reached out to each other, and

we now we talk once a month just to keep up with each other.

Yeah, that's really special. It really is. So

I think I got right into my intro with you and didn't even

welcome my my listeners and viewers to the show this time.

So welcome to this week's episode of Relationships Rule,

and I think this is special for me because I felt when I started

talking to Greg that we were like kindred spirits because

he's a huge networker and net um and. I used to teach networking

back in the day, and I've always been one that was that it came

easy to me. But as we spoke offline, and maybe we'll get

into that in a little bit, it's kind of changed post COVID a

little bit. So you have said that no matter how bad a

networker someone thinks they are, that you were much worse. I

find that so hard to believe now. But take me back to those

early days as a programmer. What would networking look like then

for you?

Oh my goodness! Yes. Well, just to give you a

picture of what we were dealing with here at my last position at

University of Michigan as a programmer, every Wednesday

morning they would put donuts in the common area to lure the

programmers out to talk to each other. So that's where I'm

coming from, and I it was around that time that I decided to

start my own business doing web development, and oh, so that

felt

safe. It wasn't really a networking kind of

thing yet. No,

no, but but what I discovered, and what they don't

always tell you, is when you start your business, you have to

go find the work.

I know, I know,

and and apparently, aggressively waiting by the

phone doesn't do anything for you. That's

right. I learned that the hard way too,

and so I decided I could either do cold calling,

which seemed like just begging for rejection, or I could try

this networking thing. So I thought, well, I'll give that a

shot. And my mom at the time, to be clear, she she taught a

class.

Yes, I'm going to get into that. So yeah, that was

my next question. So

I before I had that class though I went off to these

I'd go to a chamber breakfast and I would get my food and I

would go sit in the corner I'd be kind of annoyed if someone

sat with me and I didn't know what to say to anybody I felt

awkward I felt uncomfortable I would just wait for the speaker

to be done and I was out of there just like that. That was,

and shockingly, I didn't get a whole lot of good results out of

that.

Did after being like a an employee, was it was

it what was it that made you want to go out on your own?

First of all, that sort of feels interesting to me.

I had this dream of being an entrepreneur. Oh, you

did. Okay. Can

you see the? Can you see the cape floating behind

me in that hair? Yes.

Okay.

Yeah. So that was that comes

that came naturally, really.

That came from my mom. Yes, from your mom. She had

started her own business and encouraged me to start mine. Oh,

so

she did.

Bought my first computer for me to use as a

business computer. So it was yes, very much her impetus

pushing me forward. So yeah, I decided that I wanted to be an

entrepreneur, and I thought that was great. I didn't know what

that meant.

Yeah, of course not. Yeah, you

know, starting your own business. Most most of us

who know how to do something don't know how to turn that

something into a business because that's an entirely

different set of skills.

I know. I totally get that. So I went from

teaching to corporate training, and even in corporate training,

I didn't find my clients. They found them for. Us and sent us

out. So when I went out on my own, I was like, "Oh, yeah,

where the clients going to come from?" So I totally, totally get

it. But your mom was known as the networking guru. So with

that kind of expertise right at home, she must have recognized

something in you that you didn't know you had. Because why didn't

it rub off sooner?

Maybe you know maybe she did. I never really

asked her why she decided that, but you know I I was not

comfortable and it was I think she later realized how

uncomfortable I was trying to do this networking thing. And yes,

I did take her course.

Yes,

and no, I did not get any sort of family discount.

I had to pay full price. My mom believed that if you were going

to value something, you had to pay for it. So, so I took her

class, and I ended up being a graduate assistant for her class

for another set of them. So I got to pick up a lot of that

information. And the nice thing was, in taking the class, it

helped me to understand how much of networking is very systems

and process oriented. Oh, you could you could you could

get into that, yeah. And that

that that spoke to my heart as a programmer. Yeah,

you know there are a whole there's a there's a process

there's a skill that you can learn about how to have

conversations with people how to ask questions so that the

conversation proceeds smoothly you won't have those awkward so

it was kind of exciting to to have discovered that aspect of

it is oh my gosh it's not just having the gift of gab. Right,

right.

There are there is a way to do this, and you can

learn

it. So yeah, networking is a skill

definitely, and and you can learn it. But there was

something I just put in in your book that I just wanted to

mention. This is perfect place to do it because it's about

developing curiosity, which I think is the key to any kind of

networking and any kind of getting to know a new client,

getting them to trust you. All of that. It's all about

curiosity, and what you said in here, which I love, and you have

a great sense of humor in your book. I'm just skipping to the

part I want to say, but just I'm not talking about being curious

whether the other person can buy from you or connect you with

someone who can buy from you. Rather, what you need is a

genuine interest and fascination with other people and how you

can help them. This may not be easy for some people, right? If

you are, as you said, a more analytic or data-oriented or

data-oriented nature, or have a personality preference that

focuses on the bottom line, I thought this was really

interesting. You might see another person's personality

quirks and personal history to be irrelevant in achieving your

ultimate goals. However, and then comes you come down to

curiosity may not have been so healthy for the proverbial cat,

but without it, your networking value is the same. Oh, you

talked about real estate, location, location, location,

and in with curiosity, it's what I love be interested, be

fascinated, be curious, and that's it in a nutshell for me.

Like,

oh yeah, want to speak to that

because you probably talk about it in your

in your keynotes.

You know, when you go to a networking event, a lot

of people have asked, you know, what should I talk about?

Yes,

and you know, and I hear the worst advice. You know,

tell them this. Tell

them about that. Tell them about this. Yeah.

The the two the two worst pieces of advice are one,

read the newspaper and be ready to talk about the news. Oh

yeah, God.

Don't don't do that. No one no one wants to

talk about the news right now. Yes,

exactly.

And then the other one is to have your elevator

pitch ready.

Yeah,

and I I really I push back against that one all

the time because an elevator pitch by the very title it's a

commercial.

Correct. We

do not connect with commercials. You know, if and

you've probably experienced this as well. You're talking with

someone. Yes. So tell me a little bit about what you do.

And they suddenly they they become a completely different. I

know. I know. They drop into this. Well, we are the you know

the whole corporate spiel, and it's it's very off putting. No

one no one enjoys it. No one likes giving the elevator pitch,

and no one likes being on the receiving end. Right. So don't

do that.

Yeah.

Instead, be curious, like we were just

talking about. Ask good questions.

Yeah.

And and they don't even have to be all that

profound. Right. They can be just as simple as, "Can you tell

me a little bit more about what you do?"

Right.

I love. Asking people how long they've been

doing something, and if it's anything longer than three

years, ask them what's changed, because I guarantee if someone's

been working anywhere for longer than three years, something has

changed, and they probably feel fairly strongly about it. And

and

you mean that keeps them there, or that may

not be keeping them there. They might be looking for something

else.

Well, no, just that you know, I you know, you ask

someone in the real estate industry if they've been longer

there longer than three years. What's changed?

Yeah,

there have been things that have changed because

when people get passionate about what they're talking about,

that's when you meet the real person.

It's true.

It's not them giving the corporate speak. It's

them being themselves and feeling the emotion. You can do

this with with their job, but you can also do it with their

personal. I had a great conversation with a guy about

flying kites because that was something he was interested in.

45 minutes. I was fascinated.

There you go. Yeah, yeah. So, oh, let's take

that. Let's take that example. So you stood and talked to him,

or sat and talked to him about that for 45 minutes. How long

was? I did. Yeah. Was it? Did you ever think, oh God, I'm not

going to meet anyone else, or were you glad you were doing

that, or did it matter?

You know, I do. I do recommend that people set

goals when they go into a networking event. You know, I

want to meet X number of new people. Yeah, going to

networking events is your opportunity to meet new people.

We as adults don't often get that opportunity anymore.

Right.

So unless we're at a

basketball game for our kid, or you know,

yeah. Well, well, and I say even those are

networking opportunities. Yes, they are. Kids' birthday party

or a basketball game; those are networking opportunities. Now,

the ones you choose for yourself are, you know, you're you're

being more focused. But, but yeah, I probably at the time had

achieved my goal. I probably wanted to meet two or three new

people, and so it was okay for me to have a longer

conversation. And it was, I think, it was just a you know

mixer style event. There was never going to be a a central

event that was going on. So it was okay if I spent extra time

with him. And like I said,

it

was so fascinating. He was so excited and so

passionate about what he was talking about, that it it kind

of drew me in, and almost made me want to go out and buy a

kite. You know.

Okay, so in that particular instance, did it just

did you just write it off as that was an interesting thing,

or did it ever turn into anything?

You know, I'm not sure if it came into though.

Actually, it was it was probably someone at the chamber, the Ann

Arbor Chamber, and I probably followed up with them, and we

probably had a continuing. But that was probably 20 years ago

too. Okay, fair enough.

Okay,

yeah, it may have been a while.

Okay, so when you earned your certified networker

designation from your mom, what from there? Because I it's so

funny that you did that because I used to teach a telephone

courtesy soft skills course, and my daughter was looking for a

job in her early 20s, and it was you know customer service. I

said, well, you can come to my class if you want. So she did.

She came to my class with other people there, and she got her

certificate, and she put that on her resume. And someone actually

asked her about it. This is way back too, but but it's sort of

special when that when as the mom, I I thought that was good,

and she still uses.

Did you charge her full price?

Unfortunately, I didn't. So I I take that lesson

from you. But but she still remembers and does things today

that she learned there. So what about you? What what stuck with

you most from

there were there was a lot of great information

from that one. Probably the one that really stood out to me and

that I still advise to this day is to be the host. You know,

when we're walking into a networking event, you were

surrounded by strangers, and it can be little. It takes us back

to a time when strange, you know, stranger danger.

Yeah,

and that's a that's a mental framework that can get

in our way. So what we need to do is replace that with a

different mental framework. And I talk about this in my my

keynotes that that what we need to do is get into the host guest

framework, so you don't have to be officially the host,

right?

But you can act like it. You can make it your

responsibility to make those around you comfortable. And if

you start doing that, it's funny. You your confidence is

just naturally going to go up because you now have a job to do

that's not involved with thinking about yourself.

Right.

It's all about how can I and you know walk in. One

of the things I'll tell people go in, find out where the

restrooms are, find out where you can hang your coat, you

know, and and and where the buffet is, and and. Maybe a

quick check on on how long this thing is going to last, or what

other things are going on during it, so that you can act like the

host. You can be honestly, if you know where the restrooms

are, you can be someone's hero.

That's the first thing I do ever anywhere I go.

Are you kidding? I'm a woman. So, but that makes me think of.

Oh wait, it's just gone. Being the host for me, being the host

always also sort of thought I thought about as I'm talking to

that person, who would they want? Who would it be good for

me to introduce them to? But the other thing that just that came

to mind then too was back in the day of the chamber meetings, I

eat before you go, because then you don't have to deal with the

thing and the teeth and all of that. So eat before you go, and

for women anyway. Well, men it's easier, but women wear something

that has pockets, and you know because those were the days of

business cards, and yet to, you know, these are the ones I

collected in this pocket. These are the ones if I chose to give

them out in this pocket. I don't do any of that anymore. But that

was sort of the thing back in the day. But I actually saw

somebody the other day. I forget where I was, and they went. They

were searching for a business card to give this person. I just

say, "Are you on LinkedIn?" And I use my phone QR code and you

know thing on LinkedIn and deal with it that way, and it's so

much easier. Anyway, that's another story. But walk us

through what you do before you even arrive at an event. What's

in your networking toolkit, and what's the one easy positioning

technique that sets you up to start conversations.

Well, for me, I do actually still bring business

cards. I I tuck those into my breast pocket,

and that's fine. I won't. I'll forgive you for

that. It's okay. Okay.

All right. I have a notebook and pen.

Oh, okay. In

case I want to jot down notes about the people I

meet, or you know, about sometimes they have speakers, so

it's good to have that.

Yes,

I bring my name tag.

Yes, I

have

a custom one. Yeah,

it's actually it lights up.

Oh, so it's a conversation starter.

It you know for those of us who are not

comfortable walking up and having a conversation with

people, having that little light and name tag on, love

it.

People, I was at a networking event a couple years

ago now, and I was, I was tired, and it was a loud location. You

know, when you've got hearing aids, a loud location can can

you get swamped by the sound. Yes, and so I I knew, and this

is something I also recommend is pay attention to your own

energies. If you need to, it's okay to step away. And so I

found a corner table. I just sat. I thought I'm going to sit

for you here for five minutes and just recollect. People

started walking over to me because they wanted to know more

about my name tag.

Yeah. So yeah,

I I now always have my name tag with me. It makes

conversation so much easier. If it's going to be something in

the early morning, especially, I'll lay out my clothes the

night before.

Oh, I won't go if it's early morning. Oh well,

okay. There's that choice too.

I used to though, but not anymore. But the

whole idea is is to be as prepared as possible. My

goal is always to be there also at least five minutes before the

door opens, so that I want to be the first one in the room, and I

know isn't that awkward? No, because because guess who else

is in the room?

The speaker, the yeah, the organizer, the

register registrant, whatever.

You can you can make big points with the

organizer by saying, "Hey, I'm here early. Is there anything I

do to help you out?

Yeah,

most of the time they're going to say no.

Yeah,

and that's okay. But guess who is one of the best

connected people there?

Yes, the organizer. The

organizer. Why would you not try to be a part

of their world?

Yes, definitely. And and do you ever? I guess it

depends on the type of event it is that you can see ahead of

time who the people going might be, but I'd like to do that if I

can.

If you can, it's great to do. But the more

important thing is to make sure you're at the type of event that

you should be at.

Very good point. Yes. So,

so you know, chamber. I know that the Ann

Arbor Chamber has about nine different events during the

month, and each one has its own personality.

Yeah.

If the lunchtime one has a different group of

people, then come to the more breakfast one. Yeah,

because they're like me and they won't go early.

Yeah.

Or they won't go early. But but so you want to

make sure that the room you're in contains the people you want

to meet.

That is so important, and people actually

don't realize that because I'll be talking to people and say,

"How much network are you doing? Networking are you doing? Where

are you networking? Is it working for you?" You know,

because they they go from one to the next to the next, and none

of it yields anything. So, is it the event or is it how they're

networking? It's probably a combination, but. But I just

find that fascinating too. That people waste so much time being

where they don't need to be. Yeah,

I mean, I love the local chamber. I think it's one

of the best places you can network if it's the right place.

If you are looking for international import export

companies, that may not be the right place. Yeah, you know, you

need to make sure you. If you're making an apple pie, don't go

picking peaches. You know, just that's not going to work. It has

to

be a strong chamber and an active chamber,

and that's that's key as well. So, I did have breakfast this

morning. Why am I doing this? There was. I wanted to say

something about. Oh well, I can't remember, but I'll come to

it. So, you say in your book that you have a secret for

making connections while you're speaking on stage because that's

what you do mostly today, right? You do keynotes and trainings

and things like that. Is that correct?

That is correct. It's it's my between training

and and speaking at at association events. That that's

sort of my my bread and butter.

Okay, cool. So what do you do, and how can

anyone who presents or hosts a podcast or leads a workshop use

it too? Because you, it's it's it's obviously for connecting

with the audience. Yeah. So I've I've seen a lot of speakers.

They you know they get to the end of their talk and they say,

and there's my information up there on the screen. Feel free

to reach out to me. And you know what kind of results you get?

Nothing. Yeah.

Not you know. No one's no one is going to follow

up because

they haven't engaged. You haven't engaged

with them during this. No,

it can you can be perfectly engaging. It's just

that 30 seconds after they walk out of there, they're done.

They're they're they're thinking of something else. So that's

okay. I'm

interjecting here because that's why business

cards to me are waste of time in most cases. Because if you go to

a trade show and you get you get all that expensive collateral

from people, and what do you do when you get home? It goes in a

pile, and then you eventually throw it away, unless it was

some particular person that you definitely wanted to follow up

with because I used to walk trade shows all the time.

So yes, let's talk about the business cards as long

as we're here.

Okay. Okay. Go ahead.

Yes, business cards do not have a the ones you hand

out don't have a lot of value. In general, in my completely

unscientific study, I've gotten about a 2% response rate on on

the business cards I hand out. It's just not likely to happen.

Yeah,

but the business cards you take in are where

value lies.

Yes, because

that is where you have control over the situation.

That's you reaching out to them.

Bingo.

So your business card is not going to get them to

call you. Your business card will get them to give you their

business card,

right?

So that you can follow up with them. In general,

with your networking, you have to take control.

You do totally. I agree. It it

can't be. You can't be handing out your card and

waiting.

Well, you talked at the beginning about it being

a system as well. So this builds into the system. You collected

five really good ones or 10 really good ones at the event.

Now what do you do, and when?

Well, I would I would sit down and I would

immediately put them in my my my contact. They call them customer

relationship management systems, but you

don't know who they're going to be. So whether

I

don't know, but I put their information in there,

and then I put I put I have a tickler list that I then put

their names on that list to contact them.

Got it.

My rule is for every two minutes I talk to

them, I have a day, but never longer than a week.

Oh, okay. Oh, I would shorten that myself. But

okay, that's fair.

You know, if I sat and had to talk with someone for

half an hour,

yeah, you call them right, or you contact. I've

got I've got a little bit of time because

they're going to remember me. Yes. But if I only talk with

them for two minutes, yeah, I probably got until the end of

the day. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. That's good then. I like

that.

So so yeah, I would I would bring it home. I put it

on on my list of people to contact, and then I would send

out a quick email message to them saying, "Hey, it was great

talking with you, and if possible, what we talked about."

Yes, because otherwise I'm not you know I'm not particularly

memorable other than I'm I'm six foot two, and you have

flashing. I

got my lighted. Yeah, and well, no, it's not.

Oh, scan flash, but I do not have it flashing.

Okay, fair enough.

And and then you know, follow up with them, and

then if they respond to me, then that's a good potential

opportunity to continue our networking and building that

relationship.

Fair enough.

If they don't, they weren't ready to have a

conversation, and that's okay too.

Okay, so let's go back now to speaking from stage.

Okay, where were we?

So, your your secret sauce for making

connections while you're speaking on stage.

My secret sauce was actually I would hold a drawing

at the end of it, and I would have one of my books, and I

would just say, "If you'd like to to win this, I would." I had

a particular mechanism that I would go through, and I would

say on the back of that card, write the letters R S T. If you

would like me to reach out to you, if you're requesting a

contact, circle R if you have a possible speaking opportunity. I

will you know circle S and I'll reach out to you. We'll find out

who we can help. And then finally, I had a program at that

time called the 52 Connection Tips. People sign up and they

get one a week for a year. If you'd like to receive that,

circle T for the tips. You don't have to circle anything. You can

still win. And you've got

their card. Then

I would collect their cards and how they wanted

to be

yes

reached out to.

Yeah,

and I would usually get 90% of the people would at

least participate.

Okay,

and about probably 30 to 40% would want me

contacting them for one reason or another. So you know, and and

even those who only got on my tips mailing list,

yes,

they would have my recorded voice showing up in

their mailbox every single week.

Oh, it was recorded tips. Okay, that's

cool. Oh yeah,

and and the fun thing about that was I actually

had people who reached out to me later, you know, almost a year

later, and then, and one of them actually said, "I suddenly

realized I don't actually know you as well as I think I

do." Yeah, that's good. Well, I have to say that

that's not what I was expecting you to say. I no, it it isn't.

Although that's a really good strategy to use when at the end

of an event, they all want something free anyway, and and

it's it's win win. So I get that. But what I was thinking

that you might say, and this is something that I like to do, and

I've haven't talked in person for a long time now. Probably

this, I don't know. I've done a couple over the last couple of

years, but I when I'm there, I'm fine. But getting me there is

like it's not the same as it used to be. Somehow I don't know

what it is. It's that anxiety piece I think that's that's

developed, but um, but I it is harder to do over a Zoom

webinar. In fact, I'm doing a Zoom training on Thursday with a

nonprofit company, and I asked the my contact person the other

day if she could just send me the names of the people that are

coming because LinkedIn training that we're doing for the

organization, and she'd said to me there were about 15 to 20

people who were kind of had to be there, but when she sent me

the list, they all had everybody else's name on there that were

invited but not obligated to come. And I'm thinking, are

there going to be 40 people there? I wasn't expecting that,

you know. So I don't know, but that being said, I need people

to be on screen because I cannot talk to a blank wall. It's not

the same as being on stage. You've got the people in the

audience, and so I need to see my audience. It's so important

to me because I'm looking at them to try and connect with

somebody and ask somebody a question. Or I've done talks

where I've smiled at the same person through the entire thing.

You know, like it just makes it easier. So I was expecting

something like that, but I bet you do something with them if

you're talking about engaging with my audience.

Yeah, that's yes. So with respect to that, you know it's

funny. I've had people talk to me and say, "How how do you do

it? How do you stand in front of a huge crowd of people and talk

to them?" I say, "Don't. That's terrifying. I I just talk to one

person at a time,

yeah,

and the rest of the room is just listening in. Yeah,

and the more you can do that, as you said, you you look at one

person and talk to them,

and they're smiling back at you and nodding

their head, and so yes.

And it's funny how that will engage people. I I've

had people that are sitting there on their phone, and I

start looking at them, and and I'm and suddenly they realize

they are on top of things from that point on, because they know

I saw them. Yeah, I know it's

funny, but that is a that is a a thing that you

know we had to get used to because it happened in our

generations where you know we didn't have that before, so

we've experienced both. That

distraction is

such a distraction, and. I remember I

had a university English professor, second year

university, and I was taking an English. It was called English

200, and it was all the you know the the classics and stuff in in

English, and it was wonderful. But he talked to the ceiling the

entire class every time, so it wasn't the same as it could have

been, and I still to this day remember that he talked to the

friggin' ceiling the entire class.

Yeah, it can be a little challenging. There are

people who just aren't comfortable doing that sort of

thing, and I

professor at a university.

I I I actually worked at a university and I've

met a lot of professors.

Really? Oh wow! I know. Like I just find it

fascinating. Their

their skills are in the in the research. Academics.

Yeah. But but many of them are not comfortable presenting.

Yeah, and maybe not their favorite thing.

And I don't know. Maybe he was a TA. I don't know,

and and had to do it for credits. I have no idea at this

point in time, but I always remember that because it just it

was so awkward, you know. Yeah,

I mean, in many ways, speaking and networking

are very similar because the whole idea is you're trying to

create a human connection.

Yes,

and that's that's the best speakers I've I've met.

That is what they do. They somehow are able to make an

individual human connection with an entire audience.

So, did that feel? Did that actually feel

safer than doing a workshop? Because you've gone from being

behind the computer programming. Like, how did you get to this?

How did it become comfortable ever?

Well, I was a karate instructor for many

years.

Okay.

Yeah. Okay. And watching, you know, when you're

dealing with a bunch of seven-year-olds,

I know

you've got about 30 seconds to be absolutely

engaging, or you're toast. You know the the runners start

running, the the the criers start crying, and the hitters

start hitting. And what I discovered is dealing with

adults isn't all that much different.

That's true. I got that from teaching school to

training adults. I totally get it. Yeah,

they're just more subtle in how they check out.

That's all. So I learned a lot from watching my fellow senior

instructors and how they use their voice to engage that other

person, you know, engage those kids and get them excited and

and use body body motion and and I kind of cut my teeth as a

presenter, being a karate instructor.

Okay, fair enough.

And so then when I get up on stage is like okay.

Well, this really isn't any different. Yeah,

kids are the hardest audience for sure. Yeah.

So you talked also in your book. This is earlier on. Don't tell

me I've lost the piece of paper. Did it fall out? Oh, here it is.

Oops. No, there. Focusing on relationships, which, you know,

it's easy for people like us who get it, who know that it's not a

quick deal. It's a you're in for the long game when you're trying

to build relationships with people, and you have to take the

time to work on that with people. Okay, so you broke it

down about let's say you meet. Wait, I looking at the

percentages, and you said you know you meet 100 people, and

you try to make a connection with them. Now you'll have a

little bit more work because you have to develop the

relationships instead of that cold calling thing that you did

back in the day, right? And then you take them through a process.

Assume only about a fifth of them, or about 20, make it into

your long term network. Which is why I asked you: you put them in

your CRM already before you're not sure that, but that's part

of your process. So I love this because I talk about Joe Girard

all the time, and he claimed to be the best salesman in the

world, and he was in the Guinness Book of World Records,

right? Between he was a car salesman, basically, right? And

in between 1963 and 1978, he sold over 13,000 cars at a Chevy

dealership in Michigan, and he became such a great salesperson

not because he had amazing sales techniques, you say, but because

he understood the nature of connections and he came up with

the law of 250. Do you want to talk to me about that? Because I

want to add something to it at the end.

Well, his idea was that you every person knows 250

people that they would either invite to the wedding or would

be invited to the funeral.

Okay,

and you know these are the people who are part of

your network, and the strength of your network is not in the

250 people you know; it's in the 250 people they know. And so,

the more you can you can build those relationships and make

them stronger and make them deeper, the better. And and the

more likely they are to have you in mind when they're talking

with their 250. Right. And really, that's what the strength

of it is all about. Now, the way we develop those relationships

can't be manipulative or or or transactional. I think that's

one of the challenges that a lot of people face. They either they

either look at you know their networking connections as

targets,

right,

or as as as conduits, and either way, that's

that's can potentially lead to problems because you know you

say oh you know yeah I met Janice I don't think she can

connect me with anybody so

right I'm gone yeah but

but one you don't know that

that's right

and two that's the wrong viewpoint to have on the

situation because Janice one might meet somebody, but more so

the more you can help your network, the more the world is

going to turn around and help you. You get known as someone

who gives, then you will. The world is willing to give back to

you. The person you help, the person that you help may not be

the one that can help you.

That's right, but it's who they know that maybe

it's it's who they know, and and it's just a weird

thing that happens, and I I can't really describe it, but

the more you focus on helping others, the more someone

completely outside that relationship is going to be you

know it's almost like the the world says, "Oh, he's ready."

Yeah, that's right. But

it's it's the law of reciprocity. It doesn't it

doesn't whatever you put out there comes back tenfold. But

it's givers and it's givers gain, as they say in BNI. It's

givers gain, but it's also don't expect it from the person you're

helping because it comes from other places. You have no idea

where it's coming from. Yeah,

the connections you make have to be done without the

intention of immediate return.

Yeah, as we say in send out cards, which is a

company I've been with for many years, send out to give, not to

get, and it's the same principle. And the reason Joe

Girard comes up is because at Send Out Cars we talk about him

because he had a basket on his desk and he used to write so

many notes every day at the end of the day to people in his 250

right and so he had a system where he would always be top of

mind with people and that's what we do, and that's where you know

it's, and we fall off the wagon and whatever. And I'm I'm on it

right now. I'm doing three cards a day, and right. So it's

whoever I always say who needs to hear from me today, and

that's kind of where it comes from, you know.

Earlier this year, I actually decided to start

quantifying some of my behaviors just to see what it was like,

and realize that I I maybe slipped off the wagon a little

bit myself. And these things happen, you know, you get busy

and you yeah. So I said, all right, no, we're gonna get

refocused here. So my goal was every business day I'm going to

send out three contacts to someone in my network, you know,

and these these can't be responses. They had to be me

initiating an outreach. You mean three

to three different people?

Three different people. Yeah, just what

I'm doing. Yep.

And that's where my tickler file comes in because

then I've got okay. There's the next three people on that list.

And my thought was that maybe one out of three would want to

would respond and would have be able to have a longer

conversation.

Yeah.

Um. So it would the average should be one a day. You

know, one longer conversation a day.

Yeah.

My calendar is currently at two to three

conversations every single day because people

right.

Yeah, it works. Just it doesn't take that

honestly. My outbounds take between 10 and 15 minutes.

So this is what's on my on my computer right now.

So it's three LinkedIn comment LinkedIn comments a day, and

that's not nice post or congrats. It's a comment, right?

And three reconnects, which is your tickler file, and three

cards. Who needs to hear from me today? And those are right now.

I'm focused on past podcast guests, right? Just because it's

been a while, and it's just you know I want to come back around

to those people. So then it's something I teach in with

LinkedIn as well. Is like I see you have like 1400 plus

connections. When was the last time you reached out? Those are

my reconnects as well, right? Because they're in your they're

warm calls. They're just hey, what's going on in your world

right now, right?

Yeah. Oh yeah.

Yeah. Ironically,

yes, I've been mining my my LinkedIn for people

to reach out to, and some of them it's been. A year or six,

exactly. I know.

So the only way I'm going to get in contact with

them is through LinkedIn because their emails have changed or

whatever. But it works.

It does work. And the other thing that you

mentioned, we're talking about the 250 people. I teach that as

well in LinkedIn, where I'm gonna let's say I know you

really well. I'm getting to know you, and and you're very

comfortable to talk to. So it won't take long, you know, to

build that know, like, and trust. But if I go into your 14

150 connections, and I look at your first level connections,

and I pull out five people that I would love to meet. They look

interesting, but because I've looked at their LinkedIn

profile, and I wouldn't mind an introduction. Who knows where it

would go? So I come to you and I say, Greg, I saw these people

that you're connected to. Number one, do you know them actually?

And if you do, would you mind doing an introduction for me?

Because I'd really like to meet them. If you know, like, and

trust me enough, you're going to say no problem, right? Give me a

week or two because I'm busy right now. But just do it on

LinkedIn with a you know a connection request for both of

us. And I would also say to you, and please feel free to look at

mine and see if there's anyone I can introduce you to. That

becomes another warm, you know, introduction to people,

and it might also give you an excuse to reach out

to someone that you haven't talked to in a while.

That's right, exactly.

I mean, one of the examples we talked about how Jim

Johnson connected the two of us. Yes,

I know. Well,

I'm also trying to connect him with with podcasting

opportunities, yes. So I went through my email archives and

found all the people who've interviewed me in the past.

Fantastic.

And I and I thought, you know, some of these

people I haven't talked to in two or three years.

And it's great. I know it works. It's a win-win

again, right? It's wonderful. Okay. Well, we have to wrap up.

One other question here. I want to see. Okay, it's a good one to

end with, and we've talked about some of it. Do you believe you

believe developing a relationship isn't up to the

other person; it's up to you. So, what does consistent follow

up look like after the handshake? And can you share a

story of a connection that grew into something meaningful? Well,

we probably already answered this, but I'll just wrap with

that. And actually, I've got one more. I'm lying. Okay.

Well, yes. I mean, I've had many relationships that

have grown into something more significant. I mean, you know,

good friends. Honestly, my wife, my wife, my mom introduced the

two of

us. Oh, I love it.

And so we joke it was an arranged marriage, and so

there was a handshake, and then it became something more. You

know, and and actually, I think that underscores a lot of what

we're talking about here is that a lot of people think that

networking is only about business. It's not. It's about

your life.

Yeah.

I mean, being having connections in the world

allows you to make a difference.

Yes, it's so true.

And and many of us, I mean, we've gotten to the

point where we're not working because if we don't, we're going

to starve. We're we're working because we work. But what we are

looking for now is how can we how can we lead a life of

significance? How can we leave a legacy? And you can't do that

without connecting with the people around you.

So true. Would you say your best advice for

someone who still dreads walking into that room is be

the host.

Yes.

Walk in and try to make those around you

comfortable and be curious about the people you meet. That's

really what it comes down to.

Thank you so much. Thank you for all your

wisdom. What I love the most about your story is that it

proves networking isn't a personality trait; it's a skill,

and anyone willing to practice can learn it. From the

programmer who dreaded the room to the speaker who connects from

the stage, you've shown that it all starts with a hello and a

handshake. To everyone listening and watching, your next great

business relationship might be waiting at the event you're

thinking of skipping. So go anyway, say hello, and remember

the follow-up is where the real relationship begins. And until

next time, remember that relationships rule. One last

where can my audience find you and your book, Greg?

And I'll put it in the show notes, of course.

The best place to reach out to me will be at my

website, therereluptantnetworker.com.

Everything else will branch out from there. All right,

sounds good. Thank you so much again, and

appreciate the time you spent with us.

Thank you.