What Happens When You Train AI on Your IP

[00:00:00] How can I use this tool to apply the frameworks that I've created as an expert to get some output that I can react to? Welcome to the next evolution of the podcast, Entrepreneur School (In the AI Era). We are here to figure out how to integrate AI into the business you've worked so hard to build in a way that still feels like you.

[00:00:26] I'm your host, Kelly Sinclair, award-winning marketer turned AI platform co-founder. AI has fundamentally changed how I thought about work, systems, and what's actually possible. This show is about navigating that new reality together. It's going to be a wild ride, my friend, but I truly believe there's a way to leverage AI in a way that's intentional, human-centered, and aligned.

[00:00:52] It's an ongoing evolution, so let's explore, because AI may just be the unlock you need to achieve the life-first business you truly desire. Welcome back to Entrepreneur School. I am absolutely so on the edge of my seat for this conversation today because I am bringing you a guest, an amazing guest at that, Dr. Michelle Mazur.

[00:01:15] She is one of our, actually, she is our number one, very first beta client of Wave. So, first of all, I haven't had a guest on the show for quite some time because building a software company, I have like been at the next couple things and be organized, to be honest with you. But I want to showcase what you're doing, Michelle, what you're up to, how you're building this out.

[00:01:43] And honestly, the first question I want to ask you is like, at what point did you realize that you were just somebody who's using AI and you were somebody who's like building AI into what you do? Because I think you're very ahead of the curve as far as embedding AI tools into your program and sharing that with your clients. So, like, let's talk about how you're doing this. Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:11] So, early on, I realized that, I think the first thing I realized is that since I do messaging and marketing work, I was like, finally, I can teach voice of customer research and not have to teach them how to analyze the data that they get. Because that was always the big block because voice of customer is the best way to create your messaging,

[00:02:36] to understand, like, what's going on with your clients and really have copy that speaks to them, have your referrals land. And, like, it is truly an amazing tool. But before AI, you would have to hand, like, analyze all of that and pull out the themes and look for the quotes. And that is fine when you are a trained researcher like I am. But I realized, like, for my clients that that was kind of a non-starter.

[00:03:05] They didn't want to, like, take a course in how to do content analysis so that they could get some VOC. And so, I saw it and I was like, oh, this is a way that I can have them collect the data and then have AI do all of the analysis for it. And that was kind of the first use case. Because AI came on the scene around the same time that, at the same time I started the Expert Up Club.

[00:03:34] And I'm like, okay, this is what I'm going to teach them. They're going to go gather their data and then they're going to use AI. And then as I started creating more messaging sprints, I realized that since – so, my people are experts. They've been in business for a while. And they are chronic overthinkers and perfectionists. So, they can get really wrapped around the axle when it comes with their messaging and just be spinning out.

[00:04:02] And I realized that AI was such a great way to get them to a shitty first draft that they could react to sooner. So, I was like, okay, how can I build these tools and build them into these messaging sprints that I'm doing? And so, that sent me down. I was – very early on, I was talking to another AI guy and he was a developer. And I'm like, yeah, I have no idea how to, like, create these GPTs.

[00:04:29] And he's just like, oh, you're a good communicator. Ask it. Yes. I know. And then it was like, oh. Oh, because since I went in with a vision and I knew what I wanted, like, I could go back and forth with, you know, Claude or ChatGPT to, like, really create some robust bots for my program. Okay.

[00:04:58] Like, whiplash already. Everybody who's listening is like, okay, there's so much in there, what you just said. Easy one that I'm going to address first is the communication skill. Well, I just did a whole podcast last week. Like, that's the last episode. So, people can go back and listen to that too. But you have a doctorate in this as well. So, like, we're acknowledging your level of expertise here is definitely not the average Joe.

[00:05:23] But also, like, what you're saying about how you baked your analysis framework. How do you actually take this and train AI on how to use it and apply that thing for you? And the other thing that I want to acknowledge that you just said was it was your client's biggest block. It's the thing that was preventing your clients from being able to get results because it was hard. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Because it's hard.

[00:05:51] They don't want to learn how to be a researcher. That's not why they went into business. No. No. And so, it was just like this godsend where I was like, oh, it can do all this analysis of data and do it well. And since I am the type of person, like, I always joke that my frameworks have frameworks. So, I was coming into AI with a lot of my own IP and frameworks.

[00:06:20] And so, for me, it was like, oh, I need to train it on how I see messaging and these different frameworks because it's going to get them a far better results, better messaging, better marketing. Because it's trained by me instead of just going to Claude. Like, hey, what are my clients currently saying about their struggle around their finances? Right? Yeah.

[00:06:48] Claude's going to give you some stuff, but it's going to be pretty mediocre and it's pulling it from other mediocre websites. So, like, being able to come with like, okay, here's the real human experience people are having. Now, let's apply my frameworks to it and be able to pull out that messaging has been amazing.

[00:07:12] So, let's talk about the results that your clients are getting, being able to use your tools that are trained on your expertise and all of your frameworks. Yeah. So, what I've noticed is, especially now with using Wave and creating these bot squads, I think the biggest win is that messaging is now a lighter lift.

[00:07:36] Because the number one objection I get to whether it's working with me one-on-one or it's joining the Expert Up Club, they're like, oh, messaging. It's something I'm going to have to totally clear the decks for and make sure I have no other projects going on because it's going to require a lot of me. It's a lot of thinking. And I'm like, actually, not anymore. Because what I'm seeing is like for the first half of the messaging, it's all about their client.

[00:08:05] And that's all based out of their voice of customer data, which already exists. Most of them have been doing consult calls. Most of them have intake forms. And if they want to, they can supplement that with a survey or some client interviews to give it a fresh perspective. But they have all of that. And then they can just give it. Her name is Moxie. It's the Moxie Marketing Suite. So, they give it to Moxie. And all of a sudden, she's like just running through it.

[00:08:32] She's like, okay, here are the key themes that your clients are talking about. Like this is their desired transformation. This is their pain points. This is why they hesitate. This is why they move forward. And then she can build out this client empathy map. And it's like, all right. Like here's what they're saying, thinking, feeling, doing. And then it's like, do you want me to write some stories around that? And you're like, yes. And she's like, here are some stories. What do you think? How can we make these better?

[00:08:59] And then once she's done with that, she's like, all right, let's write the problem statement. And that's half the messaging you need. And you can literally do that in probably about an hour. So clients are getting massive clarity about how their clients see their work, why they want to hire them, the problem they're having. I mean, I always say like problems are the things that get you paid.

[00:09:27] It's what makes you referable because people talk about their problems. They're not like, I need a financial therapist. They're actually going in and talking about what the symptoms are that they're experiencing. And so that's what makes us referable. So like within an hour, 90 minutes, you have clarity on all of that. And then the fun part is like the second half of this is like it's all about you.

[00:09:57] So doing a lot of I'm a big fan of free writing, just like dumping things out onto paper, whether that's writing it or whether that's using something like Whisper, answering some structured questions, and then going through and creating like what is your unique point of view? And having Moxie like pull that out and reflect it back to you, you get to move so much quicker.

[00:10:22] And all of a sudden, like within I used to teach these messaging sprints in six sessions, and now I'm going to move to three because we can just move so much faster to create the messaging guide. And that is amazing. And you're just getting to think you're getting to things that you can react to quicker. And then it allows me when I'm reviewing to give like a higher level of feedback, which makes the messaging better.

[00:10:50] I love all that so much. You are using your AI tool, your bot squad on Wave, Moxie, she is called, to help your clients get clarity and work through a really challenging, daunting task, especially for somebody who, right? Like, and think about any expert who's building a bot squad, they're sharing their knowledge. It's because it's not what their clients are best at, right? Like, that's why people are buying it from you. It's like, because of that.

[00:11:18] Because I didn't sign up to be a market researcher. Of course not. But it's an important aspect of if I want my business to do well, I need to be able to market myself and I need to be able to speak the language that my people are speaking. So you have identified this really important niche, like a critical first step of how to do everything else that helps you run your business. And you have converted that into frameworks based on your expertise and how you do that.

[00:11:48] Then your clients are able to go through this interactive process with their bot squad. And what I think is important to underscore here, then you're delivering this in like a hybrid structure. They're bringing it back to you, the human who understands how layered nuance works and can give that extra perspective. And that strategy, that really still remains with you.

[00:12:17] So it's not taking away from your expertise to add these AI tools. But actually, I'm hearing you say the opposite. Yeah, it's allowing me to give better, more nuanced feedback. And that's what I actually love doing. Because like something like micro stories in the past, you know, they would write these stories. So micro stories basically where you take some kind of insight, like your clients are overwhelmed.

[00:12:43] And you turn that into like a little snippet of a story of what that looks like in their day. And in the past, like so many of their micro stories would be like telling like, it's this and this and this and this and not really showing or emoting. Like what does that actually look like? Like and now with Moxie, she's able to get them to like a pretty solid draft that's more in that like getting into that emotions of the day.

[00:13:10] And then I'm just able to go in and elevate it a little bit more. Like how can we add a little bit more specificity here? Or how can we like bring this emotion out more versus like, all right, you know, you don't show, don't tell. Like giving them the basic feedback. So I really love that I'm able just to use my expertise at like a higher level because they're coming with a better initial product.

[00:13:39] I love that. And I want to ask for your like just overall perspective on how AI is shifting. I mean, you've obviously taken steps to adapt with using it as a partner and allowing it to be part of what you're doing. But especially because your offer is literally called the Expert App Club. You are grounded in expertise and that is so much of what you do.

[00:14:07] Like how do you see this evolving and how do you feel about it? Yeah, I kind of love it. I mean, I know that there's a lot of blowback against AI right now. And I think it's part of it is because people don't use it strategically or with thought. It reminds me. So this is totally going to date me.

[00:14:30] But when I first went to graduate school, my first statistics course, we had to calculate all the stats by hand. So like your T-test, your NOVA's, you calculate all of it by hand. And so when you did research, you'd have to get the data and then, you know, like analyze it yourself. And then this amazing software called SPSS came out and you just gave it the data, clicked a few buttons. It ran the test and then it gave you the output and then you interpreted it.

[00:14:59] And I think the difference between how I see AI as using it as an expert is I see it as a software. Like it has the frameworks and it's going to give you something to interpret, but the humans on both ends of it. And I feel like AI gets a bad rap because people aren't doing that. They're just like, hey, AI, I need an email to my list. Like what could I talk about? Or I need copy for my website.

[00:15:29] And it produces something that is pretty good. Like it's polished, but it doesn't have a point of view. It doesn't sound like you. It doesn't sound like your clients and what their experience is. And it all sounds the same, right? So it's like the beigest of beige, mediocre. So I think a lot of people have been using it wrong.

[00:15:55] And when you really think about like, how can I use this tool to apply the frameworks that I've created as an expert to get some output that I can react to? And make sure that there's a human on both sides. That like really changes everything. And I don't mean that like in the AI, like it changes everything. But it changes how you think about this as a tool.

[00:16:25] So I feel like, and especially with like, I've been doing some like work in like AI search. And what I know about AI is that it is looking for points of view. It wants you to actually have an opinion. If it's going to recommend you, it's not going to recommend AI slop frameworks and blog posts. It's going to recommend people with a narrative, people with a story, people with an opinion.

[00:16:53] It's going to reward the frameworks that you've been developing in your career. So as an expert, I'm like, oh, finally, like these flashy influencers who are great at marketing, but don't have any of this IP. They're not going to be recommended by AI. It's going to truly be the experts because AI is actually looking for real expertise. I love all of that. The concept of what like I call expert backed AI.

[00:17:22] And I think there's some education opportunities like for us to be having this conversation for people who are in any kind of coaching, consulting, course creator, you know, knowledge based business to help demonstrate that to the end user.

[00:17:37] There is a significant difference between asking AI to help you with your messaging and asking Moxie, Michelle's bot squad, to help you do your messaging through the methodology that you have honed over a very extensive career. Mm hmm. It's so interesting to me because like towards the end of last year, I kept hearing from people like, well, I would hire you or I would join the Expert Up Club, but I'm just going to try to like limp along.

[00:18:07] They literally would say limp along with AI. And now all of a sudden they're coming back because they realize and I've seen so much AI generated copy at this point that lives on websites and in marketing that I'm like, yeah, this doesn't say anything. Like this sentence doesn't even make sense or there's a lot of repetition going on.

[00:18:29] And of course, your clients are landing here and being like, oh, I don't know if this is for me or not and bouncing because it's bland and it sounds like everyone else and it's not saying a whole lot. And for me, it's like, oh, yeah, we need we need that human element so desperately in marketing, in messaging. So.

[00:18:54] So then let me ask you about how your clients are interacting with your AI or even even, you know, how is this affecting your sales calls, your ability to talk about the way that you're implementing it? Like, how does AI come up in those conversations? Yeah. So it's interesting. Like some people are now coming expecting some kind of AI tool within the Expert Up Club.

[00:19:19] And so which is always a fascinating conversation to have about like, OK, this is how it works. And they are still fairly new to the idea of like a bot squad. So explaining that these tools have like specific jobs and they all communicate with each other and you bring them into the conversation to do a specific job because they're very well trained in that one job. So that's kind of new to them. And I've had a few of my clients be like, oh, well, do I have to use Moxie?

[00:19:48] And I'm like, no, you don't have to. But I'm like, then you have to make a lot of these decisions on your own, you know, like because you're not getting to that shitty first draft faster without her. And so it's been this conversation of like, she's not replacing your thoughts, your ideas, what you think, what you believe. She's just able to pull it out and reflect it back. So that's part of the conversation.

[00:20:15] The other part is explaining like why she's different from Claude or Chachi PT. Like, you know, the fact that it's always interesting, the fact that they're like, oh, but like this has come up, like couldn't Claude just do this for me? And I say, no, it can't because Claude isn't running my framework when you go and speak to Claude. It is just pulling it from the patterns of the large language model.

[00:20:44] So it doesn't have this expertise baked in. So it's very different. And the results that you'll get are very different. And then the other, this is really funny. I've really had to teach people that they can spar and argue with Moxie. Because for me, I think it's because I have a background in communication. Like if I'm working with Claude or I'm working with Moxie, I'm like, yeah, this isn't quite right. Or I feel like you've missed this. Or maybe we should say it this way.

[00:21:14] Like that is how I interact with AI all the time. Like it's very much like I'm bossing someone. And I've really got to train my clients on that, which kind of surprised me. Because one day they were talking, they're like, well, what if I don't like the output? And I'm like, tell her. And they're like, what do you mean? And I'm like, tell her what you don't like. And she will fix it for you. Yes, exactly.

[00:21:43] Like I learned a word early in my software development role that I now have, weirdly enough, called non-deterministic. Which means both the input and the output with any AI is going to be different. Because your humans, which you know, because you have like 10 or so clients who are using this. They're all putting different things in. They're all approaching it different. They're all testing the boundaries of what it can do differently.

[00:22:10] And the response as a result is also going to be slightly different. And even if you were to put the exact same prompt in twice to any AI, you're going to get a different result. So thinking about how to help shape that. It is part of the training. So really interesting now that you've gone from like, you know, just talking, helping people with their messaging to helping them help themselves with the AI. Helping them with their messaging to then be able to add your layer of expertise on top of that in the end. Right? Yeah.

[00:22:40] And I think the other thing, since I'm also creating like marketing bots as well, like they'll be able to help them implement the messaging. It's like it's so important to do that back and forth communication. Because, yes, AI can give you a pretty good sounding output. But for me, I think the magic is when I'm like, why are you saying that? That doesn't make any sense.

[00:23:04] It's, you know, like finding like, I know people talk about the AI tells all the time, but like, it's not X, it's Y. And how nine times out of 10, that contrast isn't even a real contrast. And I can tell it's like, like, why are you talking about this? We've not even talked. It's not that you're not confident. I'm like, we haven't talked about confidence once in this piece. Like, what are you doing?

[00:23:30] And so it's fun for me to be like, yeah, like just boss it or it's fine. It can take it. Right. Yes. AI is not emotional. That's actually part of the advantage that you acknowledged earlier. Because it doesn't say, oh, I don't feel like writing this. I'm not, I'm concerned about, I don't want to put this together. I'm nervous. I don't feel like it, like AI doesn't have to be in the mood. It just has to do a job, right?

[00:23:56] So as soon as you hand somebody a tool that helps it to do its job and helps them get over all of the other pieces like that really are there mentally from a mindset perspective, like you had a bad day, whatever, and you still need to move forward. Like how contagious it can be to have AI to support with that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I think especially if you deal with people who are perfectionists, who are overthinkers,

[00:24:24] I have a lot of people who are neurodivergent. Like they really need something to react to because just sitting there like, all right, I got to figure out like what I believe versus like, oh, okay, Michelle's asking me this question about like, what pisses me off about my industry? And I can just blah all over the place.

[00:24:48] And then I know I have this tool that can take what I say and find the themes and pull out what's going to be important. And since it also has all the info about your clients, it can match that up too of like, oh, this is what's important to you. And it's also important for your people. Yeah, absolutely. That I feel like that's one of the main reasons that I started using AI entirely was that I

[00:25:16] learned my human design as a generator, that my strategy is to respond. And I was like, great. Now I can respond all day long. It could just be like talking to it, responding all day. And it helps me feel like I'm making progress. And I am making progress too. I know. I'm a manifesting generator. So it's the exact same thing. If I have something to respond to, it's great for me. If I'm starting with nothing, that does not work.

[00:25:44] The other thing that I love is because I'm an external processor. I talk faster than I write. And writing for me has always been this very painful process. And so the first way I started using AI for myself is I would just hit record. And talk. Like I have whisper flow now. And that was just so amazing.

[00:26:09] Because yeah, like I can dictate what I'm thinking about in email in 10 minutes. But if I had to write that email from like just what's in my head, that would be three or four hours of time. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So we've talked about that time compression and how so a specific task takes less time. And now the entirety, you said, of the program that you've been delivering. How long have you been doing Expert Up Club? Three years.

[00:26:39] A little over three years now. Okay. And when did you start putting AI into it? Honestly, like from the beginning, because AI just came on the scene and I was teaching a module on voice of customer. And I was like, this is perfect. Like usually how I would do that is like what I call like a virtual focus group activity where it's like, okay, pick three to five people and then fill out this grid about what they're saying, feeling, doing, thinking.

[00:27:07] And I'm like, oh, I don't have to do that anymore. They can just gather their info or do additional client interviews. So I pretty much started using just like, I think I was just using regular chat GPT and giving them prompts at the beginning. Okay. Yeah. Actually, before I ask my question, maybe talk about how that has evolved over the way that you've actually delivered AI. Oh, yeah. At AI. Yeah.

[00:27:33] So when I first started, it was delivering prompts to them. And I mean, which is fine. Like it was fine at the beginning. That's all we really had at that point in time. Yeah, exactly. And then GPTs came along, which I found interesting, but I was really hesitant because I just didn't want my IP to be out there on open AI.

[00:27:58] And then I discovered Rad Genius, which was a way to like block your, like it was, you could embed your bots into like the Circle platform. My community is hosted in Circle. And so that's what I'd been doing for a really long time until like you and I met and you were telling me about this bot squad idea. And I was like, oh, that sounds even better because now I can have these bots communicating

[00:28:26] with each other and I can use Claude instead of ChatGPT. And Claude just does a better job with my, like with my area of expertise. So that has been like the journey from just like, here are some prompts. Nothing is trained on what I say. To here are these embedded GPTs that are trained on my frameworks to like, okay, now here are

[00:28:51] these squads and each bot has its own defined job and they work together and they read each other's output and they really create something that is pretty solid from the get-go. I'm loving the feedback that you're sharing about the bot squad on Wave and like as this is coming out in real time at the beginning of June, 2026. We are, you know, just, just announcing how this all works.

[00:29:20] So I feel like I need to take a moment to do a little nerd explanation on a couple of things that you just said there. Like how does a bot squad work together? Well, it's like you have a whole bunch of GPTs, but they can share context. So the conversation that's happening works the same way that a Claude's scaled us in terms of it's accessible to everything that you're talking about. So when your process, I believe, is like your customer or your clients come in and they provide

[00:29:49] the research, the voice of customer research, there's an analysis that happens. The analysis outputs some material, which is then used for the following steps in your process. And all of that can happen in the same virtual room, like chat interface that we have on Wave. So that's sort of what the squad context is. And then the other thing you said is it can be done on Claude. Well, that's because we can build your bots on LLM agnostic.

[00:30:17] So they can do, they can access the Claude models. They could be on GPT. They could be on Perplexity. We're allowing Google Gemini models as well. So that shift happens. It just allows for a little more flexibility in what you've acknowledged as like, what is the best tool for the job? And sometimes it's which LLM do I feel most personally aligned with from a values perspective? A lot of people are making that choice recently.

[00:30:43] And then it's also definitely going to be costs in the future because the costs for different models are significantly different. So finding a way to create tools that are the lowest cost is still provide the best results and having the flexibility to be able to do that. Yes. So speaking of like, oh, did you have a comment on that? Oh, no, no. I was just agreeing. Yes. You're right. Okay, good. Great.

[00:31:08] So I was going to transition into asking you like, how has this shifted your program from like a delivery, even like a pricing and value perspective? Yeah. So one of the things that is definitely shifting is that I'm going from like a 90 day to a 45 day, 60 day like marketing sprint. And so that's like the onboarding of the community is creating your messaging.

[00:31:37] And so this summer, I am experimenting with something that I'm calling hot message summer. So you're going to have a choice. I know, right? There's so many hot summers we can have. I know. I want us to have a hot message summer because your messaging has been on ice for far too long. And so I'm trying this like tiered model that I was never able to offer before where,

[00:32:03] because I know when people would join the program, sometimes it would take them six months to finish their messaging on their own. And I'm like, okay, so for hot message summer, they get access to the messaging squad. And they'll be able to like get feedback from me and do their messaging. And so that's going to be one tier of the Expert Up Club this summer. And then if they want access to everything, they can just join the Expert Up Club.

[00:32:31] So I'm going to be doing this like two tiered approach for the first time. Because now that I have Moxie, it's going to be so much easier to get them to that results and get them to submit for feedback. And like then I can give them feedback like asynchronously. I don't have to be on calls with them to give that feedback. They can submit it to me.

[00:32:56] And so I feel like it's really changing like the onboarding of the Expert Up Club and my ability to like sell like different tiers. And then if somebody picks a certain tier, I can be like at the end be like, oh, and look at all the other things Moxie can do for you. She can help you write the copy for your website now that you have your messaging guide. She can help you write emails or personal outreach because those are all the bots that I'm building for the marketing suite side of things.

[00:33:24] And I think that's going to make it really sticky for people. I was just going to use that exact same word. I was like, this is like creating stickiness for your whole business ecosystem. Because once they start using the tools and one element, it's a natural progression into the next area. Yeah. So I'm very excited about that because then it's like if they decided just to do Hot Mess this summer,

[00:33:51] then I can be at the end being like, and if you want to join the club and get access to all of these other tools and you could help like implementing your message into your marketing, Moxie's help and my help and the rest of the community's help, then the club is the right place for you. So I feel and it made me feel really confident that I can get them to that deliverable in 60 days versus being like, oh, I know I know how people are.

[00:34:18] And if I like in the past, I felt would feel like that I had to do the work, like in that kind of done for you way, because I know what I'm looking for. I can move quickly. And now we can have that speed where I feel like, all right, we're going to spend two months this summer. We're going to do your message. It's going to be done and dusted. You're going to be more referable. It's going to be easier to hire you. You're going to become recognized for your expertise.

[00:34:44] That is amazing what you just said, that you basically just said, I trust my bot squad to do the job fast enough that I know that the combination of us together is going to get that result in that time frame. And it's removing the dependency on the client, which is how many of us struggle with that, right? Like you can do everything you can do, but like as a coach, you can't take on the role of implementing something for somebody.

[00:35:12] And yeah, I'm like, this is kind of how I saw AI coming out first. I was like, now we can create tools that help them to implement so they can get out of their own way. Yeah, that was a big thing for me as well. Because like one of the things that I've noticed is like, like with my done for you work, like I can create the messaging guide, right? And then like, I have years of experience. I look at somebody's messaging guide and I'm like, okay, this is like what I would do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:35:39] Like I would say these things, I'd create these posts, I would do this, this and this and this. And they look at it and they're like, I don't know what to do with this. And so with Moxie, then they're able to be like, okay, I can now go and create a marketing strategy. I can go create my first marketing campaign. I can use one of the copywriting bots to like get an outline for how my copy should look and how the messaging guide translates into the copy.

[00:36:07] So it feels really good to be able to help them implement like that instead of just kind of spin out in their own like muck and like, is this right? Is this good enough? And it's like, no, no. Like, let's just get it out and then we can fix it. Let's test it. Absolutely.

[00:36:30] I feel like very similar experience where my being a visibility like brand marketing strategist was, you know, people wouldn't wouldn't show up because they felt like they couldn't get the perfect post or the perfect pitch or the perfect talk or the whatever.

[00:36:49] Right. And now if we can just be like, okay, well, now we're just we're putting it out there because so much of success is momentum is actually like, you know, taking that chance and showing up and and just having something like truly something is better than nothing. Like that underlying philosophy here. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:12] Like getting to that shitty first draft is a huge, huge accomplishment and it doesn't have to be perfect to be effective. And I think especially with the experts that I work with, like some of them came from academia so that they have these like high level of expectation, like it needs to be perfect. I'm like, all right. The first thing I learned when I went into market research is like none of that matters.

[00:37:41] It doesn't need to be perfect. We are experimenting and we're getting feedback and we're growing from that. And that's part of the process and AI helps us to to move through that process in faster cycles. Yes. Yes.

[00:37:56] And then you get the confidence and then all of a sudden you're able to talk about the work you do in a way that feels really natural, that gets people interested, that makes you more referable, like all of the things that you want your message to do for you. But if you're constantly spinning out and like going to every networking event with a different elevator pitch, you don't get that kind of feedback and momentum going.

[00:38:26] Yeah. Okay, Michelle, is there anything else that you want to tell us about your Expert Up Club, your bot squads, the dreams of all the bot squads that you're making? Because I know you're like, you're like the best. You're just like, I made this squad and now I have another squad, now grease quads, all the squads. I know. I know. Kelly is always getting boxers from me. It's like, yeah, so I made like three new bots yesterday and this is how they're working.

[00:38:53] One thing I would say, like if you're interested in making bot squads, it's so important to get them into that like specific job. Like, like they can have a very defined job and it doesn't have to do everything. And I feel like that's also very freeing when you're making a bot squad. But I would also say like if you are an established expert who's been struggling with your marketing, come on over, check out the Expert Up Club.

[00:39:20] But also I have created a what I call, well, it's an AI playbook. So I've done this message reality check where you answer a few questions. You give the form your homepage and then it tells you like where your message is costing you clients. So whether that is, are they not able to find you? Do they not trust you? Are you not inviting them into your offer?

[00:39:47] And then takes you through an exercise of how to start fixing that. So I know I gave you the link for that, but it's a really cool, I have to say it's super cool because it's AI generated, but it's based on my frameworks. And it does an amazing job giving feedback. Like I read through them and I'm like, oh yeah, I would have said this 100%. Yes. We love a playbook. I love it. Okay. I have one final closing question.

[00:40:16] So if someone listening right now is sitting exactly where you were before building your bot squads, embedding AI into your offers, what would you want them to know? So I would say if you're at all hesitant, start small. Like what is one thing that is a pain in the ass for you to teach to your clients? Or where is a point that you see them getting stuck over and over again?

[00:40:44] And really an open up cloud and have a conversation and be like, how could you help my clients like get through this hurdle? Because really it's creating these bot squads I know can probably feel intimidating. I will say they get addictive once you start creating them. But really it all just starts with conversation.

[00:41:12] Like if you have expertise, if you have frameworks, you've been doing this work for a while, like you have what you need to create a bot squad. And just open up cloud and start brainstorming and figuring out like how you can help your clients with AI move through the places they get stuck. Because I feel like that's the best use of AI.

[00:41:37] Not AI do this for me, but how can AI help my clients make progress and get to implementation quicker? Yeah, that's an amazing perspective. Thank you for that. And everybody, please go check out the Expert Up Club and connect with Michelle. All of her contact details and links to her resources are in the show notes below.

[00:42:03] And Michelle, on behalf of Andrew and myself, we just want to thank you again for trusting us and being the very first person to like build bot squads. Onboard your clients, onboard your clients, deal with all of the like work in progress that is an AI platform. And I am so glad that it's getting you results. And to me, what that means is it only gets better from here. Yes. Yes.

[00:42:29] No, I am very excited about the future and being able to use Wave and the Expert Up Club. And who knows where else this will lead me? Amazing. Thank you, Michelle. You're so welcome. Thank you for listening.

[00:42:49] If this episode got you thinking about how AI is impacting your business and what it might look like to integrate it in a way that actually fits, I'd love to help you think that through. You can book an AI strategy chat using the link in the show notes. It's a space to talk about where you are, what's shifting and how to move forward with intention. And if this episode was helpful, please share it with another business owner who's navigating this evolution too.

[00:43:17] And make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss what's coming next.