208: Yes! Ai Agents Can Answer the Phone for Law Firms. Meet Matt McCarren of HelloCounsel.ai on Scaling Law Firm Operations With Ai

What are the kind of issues that the agent's able to handle when it comes in? One

of the common questions we get asked is, "Well, do people want to talk to AI? And so I want to make sure that we distinguish between an agent and an IVR. People do not like IVRs. Press one if press two for this. Press three for that. It's cumbersome, it's slow, and it generally does not result in a resolution. For us, people like it because they're getting an answer. People hate voicemails; they hate leaving a voicemail at a firm. And the reality of it is, they don't even get checked. The greatest example I've had where, when I say we we probably 10 or 15x our our value add

firm, it was a disability firm. And during our discovery call, we asked them to look in their data at how many calls they had received in the last 12 months, and they had received 23,000 phone calls.

Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of Internet Marketing for Law Firms podcast, featuring the latest strategies and techniques to drive traffic to your website and convert that traffic into clients. Now, here's the founder and CEO of 10 Golden Rules, Jay Berkowitz.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever time you're listening to this podcast or watching us on YouTube. Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of Internet Marketing for Law Firms podcast. Thrilled to be with you today. As always, I'm going to start with a quick commercial before we meet our incredibly fantastic and interesting guest. My name is Jay Berkowitz, founder of 10 Golden Rules and CEO and founder of TGR Podcast. And today, my commercial is for 10 Golden Rules growth strategies for law firms. And the regular listeners and those of you who've been to our

conference know it's called TGR Live Growth strategies for law firms, and I wanted to explain growth strategies and the way we help firms because really there's three parts to 10 golden rules. Part one is attract, and we attract more opportunities, people to call your firm, people to go to your website, people to find you on Google, and we feel we're three times better than the national average at attracting prospects to your law firm. Part two is convert, and we do a ton of work with your firm on helping to convert more leads. Matter of fact, we're going to learn a little bit about

answering the phone and converting opportunities today with Matt. We also have an AI that listens to your calls and coaches your intake team. That we developed the 10 Golden Rules. We have another product called TGR Boomerang that helps you reach back out to folks on any missed calls. And the final piece is five star operations, and we do a lot of work with your firms to get more Google reviews, five star Google reviews, and more referrals, so we work in attract, convert, and five-star operations. 10 golden rules growth strategies for law firms. And without further ado, Matt McCarron

from Hello Counsel, welcome to the 10 Golden Rules podcast.

Thanks, Jay. That was quite the introduction. I appreciate you having me having me on today,

so we always start out by learning a little bit about you before we learn about the company. So please tell us a little bit about your journey and how did you get into AI products for law firms?

Yeah, I've been in the industry about 13 years, most of that on the law firm side. So helped build a firm up with a college buddy of mine. We started small and scaled to multi-state. At the end, we had about I think 45 employees across five states. So I've always been interested in operations. Even before working at a law firm, I ran a big retail store for about eight years, called the PGA Tour Superstore. So, really, just always enjoyed learning how things work, figuring out how to make things better, processes. So, even when I worked at the store, it was interesting. They sold

golf and tennis. It's like a 70,000 square foot store. If you've ever been in one, and back when I worked there, they were even bigger. They had an indoor tennis court, a bunch of simulators. The funny thing is, I never played golf, never played tennis growing up. So here I am. I found myself basically working at this store when I moved to Atlanta, and I was like the the administrator and spent time basically putting in physically typing in the orders for the store that they needed all the product. Figured out I could do that in about 20 hours. So spent the the other half of my time

every week learning how to do every part of the store: run the register, work in receiving, change grips, restring a racket, and so that I figured once I. Became the general manager, which took about two years. Even though I didn't still know a ton about golf and tennis, I knew all the processes, and people at least respected me for that. That's actually how I approached law. So when I first worked at the firm, it was very similar situation. Never worked at a law firm, didn't know anything about personal injury, so started by answering the phone, picking up the mail, scanning

it. Wait, one one quick question on the PGA Tour before we get into law. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because this question came up the other day with a couple of guys who've been to the Masters.

Okay,

and they said it's amazing you can get a pimento sandwich for $3, but you can't get out of the Masters store without spending $1,000. And did the PGA store have any masters gear? Do you know anything about that?

Yes, so very limited. They keep a very tight, tight grip on that. And actually, there's people that go there just to buy a bunch of stuff and resell it, but you can get banned. So basically, you can lose any future entry if you're caught reselling the gear. It's very coveted. In fact, I have a friend who has one of the the golf gnomes, and the resale of them is like five or 10 grand, and he paid like 250 bucks for it. So, but yeah, these

people who go to the Masters to get gear.

Yeah, they basically go there just to take it, and then yeah, they create like ghost eBay accounts to resell it, but

there is legitimate master stuff on eBay that someone bought at the master store. Okay, cool. Well, sorry for that diversion. Let's talk about law firm operations.

Yeah. So basically, it was it was hitting the repeat button and starting over, right? So when I was working at the firm, we were small. I basically did all the basic tasks that the support staff has to do outside of the you know the actual legal work, setting up claims, sending out LORs, ordering medical records, doing intakes, and as we scaled, I built out processes and teams of people to do that, and so in my role now at Hello Counsel, I feel I have a very solid foundation when I'm talking to folks and hearing about what they're trying to achieve, the problems they're

solving for, because I've lived it after over 12 years at a firm I ran across and fortunately, probably dealt head on with a lot of those problems.

That's fantastic. So tell us a little bit about Hello Counsel. Tell us about what the product is and how it solves problems for law firms.

Yeah, we build custom voice agents. What I love about our product is it is bespoke to each firm, and the idea is it is not another platform that you have to get your staff trained on or to go to. We work within your current tech stack, so whatever your CMS is, whatever your phone system is, you basically plug our agent into that system, and we can read and write within that system. The whole premise that we're solving for is that 70% on average, of inbound calls at firms today are what I would describe as low value calls. They're not existing clients, and they're not potential

clients. They're all the other minutia that takes place. The adjusters calling for basic information, lien holders, medical providers wanting updates, and at scale, you know, and we can go a little further into the numbers that really clogs up your phone systems. And what happens personally? I experienced this, and talking now for the last three months with potential clients is that the support staff actually thinks of the phone as a distraction, right? And they don't want to answer it because

customers keep getting in the way.

It's actually not the customers, though, Jay. That's what's interesting to me. It's the other 70 75% of the time it creates that stigma, and so then they don't want to answer the phone because three out of four times it's something they don't want. And so, high level, what gets me excited is we can actually change the culture over time of how people feel about the phone at a firm, and that's kind of exciting, right? That's not an easy thing to do, but if done well, now your staff can actually look at those calls as an opportunity to connect with a client to do something that's

meaningful for the case because we have filtered out the calls they don't want, and it's custom to how they define that.

So, give me an example: 10 calls come into a firm one morning.

Yep.

So, 70% are insurance adjusters asking questions, or

yep. So, those calls, what happens is

trying to sell you something.

Yeah, Matt. Trying to get an appointment with your COO or your founder to talk about Hello Counsel, right? We're going to if it's an existing case they're calling about. What's great is our agent is going to answer the phone, find the file, and say Smart Advocate or whatever system you use. Be able to give an update if you allow that. Then it's going to transcribe the call and write a note in the file that this person called from State Farm. Jake from State Farm called, and you know wanted information. It will also then send an email to whoever owns the file. So whoever the

primary person is in the attorney, again based on your SOP, that's the seven out of 10. The three out of 10, the ones you want coming over, what's going to happen is our agent is going to answer the call. It immediately knows who's calling. So say it's an existing case, Devin Smith's calling to get an update. It's going to say, Devin, your case manager is Matt. May I place you on hold? Let me see if Matt's available. It's going to place the client on hold, call me as the case manager and say, Matt, I've got your client Devin Smith on the phone. Would you like to take it? If I say yes, it's a

warm transfer with still transcription and note that the call was came in and that the transfer was made. If I say no, I don't want to speak to Devon right now. It'll come back and say, Devin, I'm so sorry. Matt's on the other line. When's a good time for him to call you back? I can send him an email, and I'll also task him to call you at that time. And it'll again then create a task in Smart Advocate, and then email the case manager if the client says, which sometimes they do, I'm tired of Matt. He never picks up the phone. I'm about to fire the firm. Then our agent is intelligent enough

to follow whatever your escalation clause is. So if you have, all right, when that happens, who's the fixer at the firm? Who's the person that calms people down, right? Let me not try to transfer it back to Matt. Let me find that person in customer service who's going to, you know, de-escalate.

That's cool. What's the best problem case scenario, like what's a firm struggling with, and then they should look to Hello Counsel as a solution.

Yeah, any firm at scale is struggling with this on some level. If you're signing even 25 cases a month, 30 cases, 50 cases a month, the problem is as you continue to grow, you have to add a one-for-one human, and those positions-the folks answering the phone, your intake team, your receptionist-that's your highest turnover. And so, any of those folks will tell you, and they've dealt with this. Even if they find a good person, they're not going to stay in that role more than you know a year maybe 18 months and then they're going to want to do something else and you either

promote them or they leave and so that knowledge is you're continuing to have to retrain and find and source new people over and over again where with our agent once you train us on how you want it done that agent never leaves and it can answer all calls simultaneously. So if you decide to scale, it's very easy for us to scale without any more input from you. Other than maybe now we're going into a new, you know, we're going to get into mass tort. So here's how our mass tort calls should go. But it's a one-time training, not a a rehire retrain every six months.

And give me give me a couple more examples of those calls, and what are the kind of issues that the agent's able to handle?

Yeah, you know what has been fun to follow along is, you know, the one of the common questions we get asked is, "Well, do people want to talk to AI? So I want to make sure that we distinguish between an agent and an IVR. People do not like IVRs. Press one if press two for this press three for that. It's cumbersome, is slow, and it generally does not result in a resolution. For us, people like it because they're getting an answer. People hate voicemails. They hate leaving a voicemail at a firm, and the reality of it is they don't even get checked. The greatest example I've

had where, when I say we we probably 10 or 15x our our value at a firm, it was a disability firm. And during our discovery call, we asked them to look in their data at how many calls they had received in the last 12 months, and they had received 23,000 phone calls. And this is not a huge firm. I mean, I think they have 15 staff members, so it's not a sole practitioner, but it's a small firm. And we said, "Well, what's your solution for answering the phone? And they said, "Oh, we have a wonderful receptionist. And so we said, "Well, how many calls did she answer? And they said, "10,000. And first

off, I thought that was amazing that any one person answered 10,000 calls in a 12 month period, and then of course the next question is, well, what happened to the other 13,000 calls? And I almost fell out of my chair. He said voicemail. The other 13,000 calls went to voicemail. They. And so, in the very first week, obviously, beyond just creating a better client experience, because every those 13,000 calls, they said we can't listen to all the voicemails. So that was just data lost. But they signed three cases in the first week that they otherwise probably would have missed because the

person called after 5p.m. and left would have left a voicemail.

Fantastic! Yeah, that math is very compelling. I did a quick division: 23,000 divided by 250 business days is 92 calls a day. Yeah,

and she so she was answering 40 or so, and

yeah, and yeah, put a voicemail. She was trying to listen to the voicemails and call the people back, and then the phone would ring again. I'm sure.

Yeah, and that's the other thing too. Is the notation is a lot weaker than people assume because just to your your exact scenario, you just hang up the phone. Is probably maybe it was an exhausting call emotionally because somebody was venting or upset. You know, it's an intake. It's a personal injury intake. It's a very personal experience. I've done probably 5000 intakes in my career personally, where I've listened to somebody tell their story. Some of them are minor, some of them are catastrophic. Right. So you hang the phone up, and you're starting to type your notes into

whatever funnel system you're using to capture, and then the phone rings again. Well, you're on to the next story, and you have not completed your notes. And the likelihood of you either coming back and finishing, or or if you do come back, how accurate that is, is not great, right? To your point, that's why you. I mean, I know you you have a product where you coach and record and listen because we all think we can multitask, but if you ask my wife, she will definitively tell you after 25 years that I cannot.

Yeah, and made it worse than

yeah exactly.

That's great. So tell me about creating the SOP. In the perfect model, the AI answers every call.

Yeah, I think our best solution is to be your receptionist, or at least your overflow throughout the day. So, if you have a frontline person that you really love, let us handle every call he or she can't answer, or that team doesn't answer, and then we're your nights and weekend. We can complete a an intake over the phone.

So the receptionist answers the call, and then as soon as she's on the phone or in the restroom, the AI answers the call. If

you want it that way, you have the ability to customize. I think you have a human available; they should do the intake. I think it is a very human experience.

Yeah, the

empathy, just the connection. But the reality of it is, you don't always have somebody qualified to do that. And so, rather than miss those, we would do the intake. Like if you use a funnel like Lead Docket or anything like that, we'll put all of the info into that. If you allow us, we can send a contract if it meets your criteria in real time via text or email, just like a human would. And then you know we can do the follow up.

Talk about this. So you're doing the intakes and actually signing cases

if the firm is comfortable with that, right? You know, now we're not going to sign like a medical malpractice, or of course we want to know where your your bumpers, right? Close to statute, unclear who's at fault. Of course, we're probably not signing like a medical malpractice or nursing home abuse case because those are very complicated. But if you're talking about a straightforward premise or auto, I think there's a use case for that. That's compelling.

Great, and so the AI takes the call, asks all the questions, qualifies the prospect, asks for an email or a text. It sends a DocuSign.

Yeah, just like whatever system you use. Again, we're agnostic. We're going to work within your your DocuSign or system that you use. That's

fantastic. And you mentioned Lead Docket and Smart Advocate. Who else do you guys integrated with?

We have seven or eight different integrations already, but you know whether the provider has true like API integration, that's our preference. But not all of them do. So we use there's different workarounds like Zapier and other ways to to get into the system. And again, you have control of how much information you want us to be able to see, but that again will limit the level of update we can provide. Our goal is to handle as many calls end to end as we can, because that again frees your staff up to do more important things.

And do you have a case study that's been a real winner for you guys? And you could tell us the name of the firm, but if not, just tell us exactly. Go right from the day you met these guys to the the writing the SOP to getting it integrated to

yep

what the results have been.

Yeah, so first call has to be discovery. That's the way we want to operate. We want to know how you're operating. I don't want

theoretical here. I want a real case study.

Yes, yeah. So had a firm. It's current client. I won't share their name because I haven't asked for permission. But they're in the the southeast. They're in Alabama. We did a discovery call. We identified three things: the receptionist, the intake, and we actually do outbound. So we we're doing medical record follow up, which is another frustrating task that just eats up time waiting on hold, trying to figure out if and when a record's ever coming. They actually wanted to wait on intake. So the first two applications that we did, we had the discovery call, then we had a

demo and we showed them the product, and then we started with receptionist and medical record follow-up. And the way we like to do it is, we said, "Give us. They gave us 83 medical record tasks, so they're in FileVine. So they were able to actually task our agent in FileVine, just like you would task a legal assistant, right? And say they named their agent, I think Emma. So at Emma, please follow up on medical records for this file. Emma then can look in the medicals tab, and then she started calling for where they were missing. And I was amazed. The longest time she was on hold was 53

minutes. It was a seven-month-old task, and the actual issue was they had the wrong number for the provider. It was like a remote hospital in Alabama, and so Emma went and researched online our agent on her own, found a different number. Finally, got a hold of somebody. She was on hold for 53 minutes and got them to send the records, and so that was a case that was pending forward progress. I mean, obviously that's not a happy client, right? So of the 83 open tasks in the first week, she completed over half. So I think it was like 51 completion looks like different things. They sent it in

real time. She got somebody on the phone, and the person said, "Where do you want me to send the records? And she said, "Send it to you know this email address, and they sent it. Completion could look like they said, "Well, we're not sending the records. You haven't paid the invoice. So then she went back to the case manager of said file and said, "I had the them re-email you the invoice. Please pay it and let me know once you've paid it, so I can call them again and inform them to send the records, which was pretty cool, and so they gave us those 83. We did in the first week. We completed, I

think, 51. They were ecstatic. We're now doing all of their medical record follow-up, and then on the reception side, how we like to do it is we turn it on for an hour at a time. So we try to cover your lunch first because that's usually where you have the worst coverage, and then we slowly added more time until we were answering. We were the front line on all the calls.

And how does it work on the open calls? Literally, the AI just yeah, it's 83 projects. It does the first project and it it looks in the file, dials a phone number. Phone number didn't work. Went online, found another phone number.

Yeah. Well, here's the beauty. What did

it say? Like, hi, this is Emma calling from such and such a firm. Yeah.

Speaking to when we were talking about how men are poor at multitasking, what we actually found in that first 30 days was we were experimenting. We had to switch it to a male voice because it had a higher success rate, which is crazy. And here's the thing, Jay, you're you're assuming that it calls like a human, one call at a time. No, all calls.

It's on all 82 calls. Yeah.

Yes. And then, so we set parameters like how often do we want to call a medical provider in one day because we don't want to like create a adversarial situation, right? So

yeah,

we're gonna call no more than three times a day. We're gonna try different times. Again, every time we call, so if you're familiar with FileVine, there's an activity feed. There's the task to our agent, and underneath the agent is writing notes. Called, spoke to this person, left a voicemail, emailed this person, email came back. Like you, literally in real time, can see the work happening in your file.

So I'm foreseeing a day. You guys have an AI agent that makes outbound calls. You also have an AI agent that answers calls for law firms, and I'm foreseeing a day when the AI agent's going to make the outbound call. The AI is going to answer the call. Humans aren't going to be involved at all, or else it's maybe like a comedy script where you know the AI is calling to try and get an answer, and the AI's answering and trying to decipher what the AI is asking.

So State Farm, we we also can call and set up claims, which is another kind of dead time where you're on hold. State Farm has an IVR, but our agent called, went through the IVR, gave the information needed, driver's license, data loss, name of the client, was able to skip through the IVR, waited on a hold. When a human came on, answered all their questions, and then at the end transferred it back to the law firm to finish it. Now we could have finished it ourselves, but we basically our agent worked with State Farm's agent, which is an IVR, and did a whole claim together.

And I have a. Have a recording of it that we use as a demo. It's about, I think it took about five minutes total, end to end.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Can you blank stuff out, and we can put it at the end of this call?

Sure. Yeah, yeah. I can. I'll provide you some. So we have a few of those. Yeah.

That's awesome. Yeah, I'm sure everyone would love to see the future.

At 47, I feel like I'm right in the middle. Like I can relate to it when I my my soon to be 11 and 13 year old son and daughter are talking about things, but then I also like grew up and learned to type on a typewriter. So I feel like I'm I'm right square in the middle.

What are the kids using AI for these days?

My son does all his homework using AI, which is crazy. He's 13 or about to be 13, going into eighth grade, so he's already pretty good at prompting. Probably as good as I am. Which, I mean, that's a true skill set that everybody has to learn.

Well, I guess if you're more native, like you've grown up with it from eight, 910, years old, you're AI native.

100% 100% He's super complex.

Like, why would I go and go to a library and look up this information? Your brain just goes to GPT or Glog or whatever,

and and they're they're just so quick to know where to go and what tools. Like he's a big soccer player, and they went we went to a national tournament, and him and his friends, and it took them maybe an hour. They made a whole rap video, so the video is pictures of their whole season, and then they use auto tune, and they all are singing different parts of the song, and they just put it all together in like an hour and a half. They and it's actually really good.

Yeah, probably on the bus to the tournament, right?

Exactly. Waiting in the airport. Yeah. Yeah.

Where do you see AI going next in the legal industry?

That's a great question. I mean, I think right now voice is a great sweet spot. It's kind of a there's a lot to do still. Same with screening. Like we, I'd love to talk to mass tort firms just because the amount of data and then where people have struggled is how do you scale up and scale down really quickly, right? That's always something that's going on. You know, I talked to a firm the other day, and they do civil rights law, and so sometimes they'll be on the news, and when they're on the news, their normal call volume is 100x, and they AI is a great solution for that. You

know, even if you only turn it on every once in a while to be able to handle the volume. You know, like such and such was on CNN talking about a police brutality case. Everybody's going to call your firm, and you have your same three people answering the phone, right? Like, especially with like MSOs and VC money coming into personal injury, I think AI is going to be important to be able to compete if you're not going to go that route.

Yeah, might as well expand on that a little bit. We've talked to Tim McKay about MSOs and VC money, but explain managed service organization. Explain what that is.

Yeah. So basically, instead of building out all the different parts of a law firm internally, you outsource to somebody who's be able to provide the operational structure, the financial structure. There's different pieces you can outsource. I think it's an effective way to grow, especially if your passion in your sphere of genius is the law, and not running a business. The only other way to do it is to bring somebody in. Like that was kind of my role at my firm. I'm not an attorney, but I knew how to run a business. But it's a great way to do that and know exactly what your costs

are and scale. And then you have somebody else out there spending their time and energy and their passion researching how to make your firm more efficient, and I think it's a great a great way to scale or or enter a new market versus going and trying to stand it up on your own, which is extremely challenging.

Another thing I see happening in the industry is overlapping Venn diagrams. Like imagine you guys are at the start, and and actually there's a bunch of AI and marketing, and then the phone rings, and your voice agent's answering the phone, and like you said, it's interacting with lead docket or one of the the lead capture and front end CRM systems. Either it's going right into a case management, or there's an AI Eve even up Simeo faster outcomes, and then the case managers at at the backend, and all of those, every all of you, all of the AIs, and all the technology companies

are building new functionalities. So the question is like, does the AI build case management? Does the case management build you know legal AI? Who's going

to win out? Yeah, like do

y'all and and a bunch of them have voice answering as well. So where do you see the Venn diagrams overlapping the quickest, and who do you think's going to win out the next couple of years?

I've got a few bets out there with some friends because there's going to be a consolidation, Jay. I think you're spot on. Like people want less in their. Tech stack, not more. I think you know, even there's some tech fatigue going on if you're sitting in that seat. Probably, I think that the ease in the even ups in those folks of the world will win out over the traditional CRM. The the case management systems they're trying to be good at everything for everybody, and that's kind of hard to do. The smart play, in my opinion, would be consolidation and partnership, right? I mean,

we have some. Depending on when this is published, we have a couple of partnerships that we're announcing after AAJ with some CMS systems, where we're going to be their preferred vendor, and it's smart because they don't want to try to build something that's not in their their genius, and so we'll work something out to where we can be that solution and and provide the best service for their clients. Right?

Great, thanks for this. Fascinating. We're now at the time of the podcast that our regulars who are still here, you know, I know Stephen Gersten's on his elliptical somewhere in in China or Europe or something. And to all of our regulars, thank you for being listening this long. And we always ask you little quick one-liners. Okay. So the first one is, do you have any personal productivity hacks, or software or methods you use to get more done more efficiently.

Yeah, I don't know if it's a it's a hack, but I two things I try to do every morning. One would be exercise. I think it really centers me and gives me energy throughout the day, but also calms my nerves. And I drink a smoothie every day religiously, and it has like 15 different ingredients. I won't bore you if you want. I can. I'll tag the podcast with the list.

Yeah, send send it to me. We'll put it in the meeting. All

right. But and my wife will tell you. I tell. I find a way to work it into every conversation that I have because it makes me feel like a million bucks when I drink it. I wait till I'm really hungry in the morning, and I drink that. But productivity-wise, I definitely have started using granola. I find some sort of app like that really helpful. I'm not great at again remembering things or physically writing. Granola is just a note taker. It's one of many apps. There's a lot out there that probably do the same thing, but you can turn it on your phone. It's an app. You can run

it on your computer, so it can listen or take notes from any sort of meeting, and then it summarizes them. And it's also integrated with products like Slack and I believe Teams. So then you can share it with your team, which is nice. I

literally put a graphic above my camera, and it says everything is recorded because I I want to remind myself that there's no more unquotable quotes. Absolutely, everything is recorded, and we want to conduct ourselves the way as if we were being recorded, because you know, literally everyone's got a granola or a pocket or a even if you can't see the fathom or the the Zoom recorder, everything's everything's recording.

I try to make sure I always tell people if I'm going to turn it on, like if we're just in person, just to make sure they know. Yeah, yeah. I think the other piece of that I always forget is all the ring cameras around every single house? Like right, right now I'm not at home. I'm at in law's house because I'm between homes. I move next week, and there are ring cameras. And I'm like, if I walk outside and talk on the phone, I got to remember that.

Right, audio and video. Yes. And when you walk the dog, everyone's got a ring camera. There's no forgetting the the poopy bags anymore. Great. Well, you you answered the second question, which is, do you have a personal wellness and fitness routine? The third question is best business books.

Okay, so the old school one that I really enjoyed was Good to great, and then maybe like three or four years ago, the serendipity mindset was one that was life changing for me. I think the big takeaway that helped me on the path I'm on today is to not just focus at being good at my task, but be more aware and intentional about when you meet people, trying to understand what they're trying to accomplish, and then just look to add value when you can. And generally, it's serendipity

mindset.

Serendipity mindset. It's an easy read. I know it works. I've seen it work in my own life, and it was wasn't a major change. It was just more of a a bit more awareness of you know all these wonderful people that I meet that I love. How can I help them? And when you help people enough, they're always going to want to return the favor.

So you got a little break. You finished your your workout in the morning. You're just about to sip your first sip of your super smoothie that. You're gonna share with us, and one of the blogs, webinars, YouTube's, or podcasts comes across your feed. Which one do you stop everything and listen to religiously?

The most consistent I've been is the School of Greatness by Lewis Howes. He's over a decade in, I mean, he's interviewed everybody from like President Obama to Kobe Bryant to you know. So I've probably listened to 500 plus of his podcasts. There are you know a few been listening to Seth Price's or podcast as well, but yeah, I'd say school-the school of greatness-is my number one go-to that I don't miss.

Yeah, remember hanging out with Lewis 15 years ago, and we were

both

early OGs and at a conference, and I forget one of the original motivational speakers was speaking. It was amazing.

We're both from Ohio, so

yeah,

yeah,

yeah, and he did he make the Olympics or he almost made the Olympics?

Yeah, it's like a handball. It's like yeah, I think he was on the Olympic team. That's right.

There was some injury or tragedy or something, but yeah, he's he's definitely crushed it with that content

for sure.

Great. Well, the last two questions are easy. If someone wanted to refer you, what's the best opportunity that they should send your way?

Yeah, I think any firm that is dealing with volume of any kind-it doesn't really matter in the personal injury space. It could be Social Security, workers' comp, traditional PI, mass tort, where they have identified a problem with their operations with their phones. They're not happy or they're worried that calls are being missed. I would just love to talk to them and help brainstorm how it can be better

and where can they find you?

Yeah, so if you go to HelloCouncil AI, you can book a meeting on there. My email is just matt at hellocouncil AI. So either go online and book a meeting, or you know I'm not hard to find online. You can hit me up on LinkedIn as well if you prefer.

Matt, love talking about the future and the president of AI and law firm business. So thanks for your time today. This was lots of fun.

Oh, Jay, I really appreciate you having me, and I look forward to seeing you at a conference soon.

Thanks, sir.