Episode 325: What's Hiring Look Like in the World of AI

Welcome back to the Scale Your Insurance Agency Podcast, the show built for independent agency owners who are done being the bottleneck in their own business. I'm Daniel Metcalf, and every week I'm joined by my co-host Mike Stromso, one of the most respected operators in the independent agency world. Between the two of us, we bring you the real levers that move a $3 to $20 million agency from successful but maxed out to systemized, scalable, and running without you holding it all together. Here's what we focus on. Mike brings the people side, leadership, team development, niche sales mastery, and a three-piece system that helps agencies build a business worth owning. I bring the machine side. AI, automation, and workflow design that frees your team from the operational drag, eating your margin and your time. Together, we're building a framework that can grow an independent agency 4X to 9X without burning out your people or your checkbook. If you're an agency owner who's tired of growing by hiring, who knows you have a capacity sitting on the table but can't figure out how to unlock it, this is the show for you and your weekly edge. Welcome everybody again to Scale Your Insurance Agency Podcast. Here back for another week with my good friend Mike Stromso. Mike, we gotta be, you know, we gotta be up front. We're all prepared to have our conversation around the people process of the of the three Ps of UPP and hiring. And we got into this long conversation about it. We decided why not just start hit record. I know this is atypical of how we like to have our very structured podcasts, but I think that we both did. We both felt that having a having a conversation to buy just hitting record and the back and forth that we're doing when it came to hiring in the day of artificial intelligence and what talent looks like and adding talent, especially if you want to scale your agency. We just hit record. So everyone, we're hoping they'll just be patient with us because we still feel like they can get some great value, some awesome golden nuggets based on just the conversation we've been having most recently preparing for this episode. What do you think?

So, Daniel, we're gonna pop the hood on the Saturday conversation.

Yes, we are. We're gonna pop the hood on the Saturday conversation.

Yeah, Daniel and I have these incredible conversations. I don't know why always on Saturday, but we do. We do. And like five minutes in, I'm going, Daniel, hold on. I want to grab this recording so I can do something with all this great information. So I'm I'm gonna get to it. I mean, the reality in today's world of the independent insurance agency operating system is that technology is doing the work of machines so people can finally do the work of humans. But the humans that are working within the agency business must come to grips with the fact that they've got to update and change. Not everybody's favorite word, but because if in the words of the great Jim Rohn, which is one of our mutual favorites, if you want things to change, you've got to change. Because if you're willing to change, everything will change for you. So if you want to be high performing, legit, I'll use the word badass in today's industry, ladies and gentlemen, you gotta update. That's all there is to it. What comes to your mind when I say that, Daniel?

Oh, I mean, rather than having the debate back and forth as far as, you know, artificial intelligence replacing people or, you know, the apocalypse of jobs and all these, is there some place of truth within that? I believe there's probably somewhere that just jobs are gonna be displaced. But we need to start preparing ourselves for artificial intelligence. It's here. And if we embrace it and we try to find a way to be the those that are going to be controlling the agents and are going to be managing the agents and redefining our jobs and what good looks like and what great looks like with having this, these tools and technology at our fingertips, I think that puts us in a better place of being able to be successful and scaling using these tools. And you know, Mike, when we were talking back and forth of like, okay, so what does an agency need to look like now from a hiring people perspective, right? Uh like what does what where should we start focusing? Because we we'd still need people in order to scale. That isn't that isn't going away anytime soon, right? So what but it has to change. What should that look like in your eyes? Like what should it look like in your eyes? Like, where should we be focusing?

Well, I I mean, to point, uh, let me grab something real quick because I want to be clear. Uh, and I've done so much work on this. Human work. So let me start there. Human work is things like advising a business owner on the right insurance strategy, helping a family truly understand what risk is and how to properly protect their assets, building trust with people, critical thinking, and decisions that need to be made when claims happen and knowing the next step. So, if those are examples of human work, as we're talking about technology, all very, very important. And those are things that technology is never ever going to be able to take away from us. But as humans, we must be consistently updating ourselves, okay? And at the lead of what's necessary in the agency business today, and Daniel said, you know, let's validate it. Okay, here's the validation. We've got, we must continue to grow. We must continue to focus on producing new revenue because some of the existing revenue, the existing book of business, is going to go away by natural attrition. There's not much you can do about it. Yeah, that number moves. Okay. But something we're also talking about, Dana, when we got into this awesome conversation was the report, the Reagan Best Practices report. Okay. I have the most recent study in my hand, the 2025 study, which is the most recent one. And this opened our eyes so much about the work that we do. Let's talk about producers because we're going to get into it and help you with finding these people or attracting, recruiting, interviewing, and hiring these people. We'll get into that in just a minute, give you some very, very important things that you must be doing today. But let me share with you why this is important. Median new commissions. I'm looking at the report of producers. $170,909 per year that for producers that are tech enabled. Tech enabled. In other words, they embrace automation and technology and use it to its highest and best use. New commissions of non-tech enabled producers, $104,000. That's a $66,909 difference. Producers. Producers is what we need to be thinking about first because Daniel, the agencies that we work with, it's a constant, I don't know, shall we say sore thumb? There's not enough energy dedicated to actual full-time sales production.

Ultimately, that if you want to scale and where technology is today, those agencies that start to accumulate the A player producing licensed professional talent are going to be the winners, in my humble opinion, on what we're what we're seeing now with a lot of our agents, independent insurance agencies that are that are moving in that direction. Where they know that their distribution lies in having those licensed professionals, a player producers, that can help build the multi-million dollar territories. And then build a system that can maintain and account manage those multi-million dollar territories through a combination of what I believe are going to be agent operators operating the agents that will be running the service behind those multimillion dollar books.

100% agree. The difference in the book of business for a tech enabled producer, the book of business, $384,355, versus the book of business for a non-tech enabled producer, $216,000. That's a $168,355 difference.

And that's based on technology that's already a year old or plus. Yeah.

Exactly.

That's where we're getting. I think that's where the multi-million dollar books are going to come in.

Yep, for sure. So what what does an owner and leader of an independent insurance agency really need to be thinking about right now? Albeit they may not be organizational or ready organizationally ready yet. What do they need to be thinking about right now to enable their production teams to be more tech enabled?

Well, I would start having the conversations today about being tech enabled, about you know, who are who's going to support it? Who are the ones that are that are striving for it? Who are some of the people that are already doing their own research and toying around with it on their own, knowing that that's where they want to go, right? And that's where the that we're where the future is going to be. And, you know, starting to decide how I'm going to go build my agency around those that are ready for that adjustment, right? For that change. Um, if you already have A players and maybe they're not ready for the tech change, is there some additional resources we could provide them from a leadership and guidance standpoint to get them prepared, right, for what that might look like? Um, are we making it a focus? Are we are we giving them time? Um, you know, quote unquote free time, right? Are we giving them that time and that prioritization for them to go and learn and to explore and to try and to test and see what that might look like? Are we giving them that freedom to do that, the autonomy to do that? Um, are we starting to add? Are we changing the way that we hire? Right? Are we changing our job descriptions? Are we changing our, you know, you know, what other adjustments are we making to make so that we can bring those um individuals with the right mindset and the right skill set into our organization in order to be there of where we want to go?

Absolutely. Let's go there. You just uh opened the door for me. So let's talk about you know, attracting, recruiting, interviewing, and hiring tech-enabled producers in today's world and heading into the future. Because one of the things that really fueled our relationship in the early days that started one of those Saturday morning conversations was I read a book by transparently by Jeb Blunt. Uh, it was the AI-enabled uh sales professional. And in the epilogue towards the back of the book, it had a story about a producer who was like totally tech enabled. And it had technology doing all of this work, setting them up, cleaning their inbox, I mean, doing all of this stuff, which is and I asked you, Daniel, I said, Daniel, is this possible? Do you remember what she said?

Absolutely, it's possible. Anything is possible. How much time, energy, and resources do you have in order to make it a reality?

Uh-huh. I love that answer. Anything is possible depending on your time and resources. And let's go, let's go take it even further back. Your perspective and your belief, I mean, your true inner belief, you as an leadership or owner, an individual, your belief on the fact that this is the way into the future, that this is the pathway, that we must get on that pathway to scale into the future.

And if you change your perception and your reality will follow. That's what we talked about on that Saturday.

Change your perception, your reality will follow.

One more time.

Change your perception, your reality will follow.

Change is the perception, your reality will follow.

If you can perceive a world in which you can scale with with provide with bringing on a players and growing the amount of people that you have on your staff as A players and enabling them with technology, our artificial intelligence and automation, you can see a world in which you can scale your agency 3x to 9x in 18, 36 months, right? If you create that perception and you and you fully believe and you can see that and see that and have a visualization of that world, it will become a reality.

Depends on how long it's going to take, right? Just depends on you know, there's no, there's no Ironcross, right?

There's no magic bullet, there's no silver bullets, there's no, there isn't anything out there other than the fact that it's one step at a time on your way to that reality.

And as we mentioned in almost every one of our podcasts nowadays, it really goes back to the documented processes and systems and workflows. Let's get back to finding these A players for your team, just like you mentioned. And what do we need to be thinking about in today's world to attract and retain the A players? Because ultimately, at the end of the day, these A players, and let me repeat the best definition that I have ever seen of an A player. An A player is a highly competent team member who excels in their position and aligns with your company culture. So it warns the point. Is your company culture tech enabled? Yes or no? What are the conversations look and sound like in your agency regarding technology? They think outside the box, they reach company goals, and they help your business succeed. They don't need to be micromanaged, they don't drop balls, they tend to overdeliver, and they're great at creating results. So, where or where do you find these people? Let me ask you a question, Daniel. Have you ever bought a new car? Yes, I have.

Okay.

And when you hopped into the driver's seat of that brand new car and started driving, what did you see all around you?

It seemed like um a lot of new features, a lot of new buttons, a lot of new things that I was gonna have to learn.

Okay, fine. And did you see other cars just like the one that you just absolutely, yes, yes, of course.

All of a sudden, once I once I got my new car, it seemed like everybody had that same car.

Right? Reticular activation system, the RAS, right? It's it's very real uh in society. So the first and most important thing that you need to do to attract these producers or any team member for your team is you need to get clear on who that person is. Because if you don't have clarity on who that person is, you can never find them. And so you're gonna need to take the time to document everything about who that person is. And we call it a whiteboard brainstorming exercise. And you just start with a blank piece of paper, and you just start on that blank piece of paper and you start writing down everything about that person.

And one could argue from the technology guy, you could start with a blank custom GPT that you've taught it everything about the agency and everything that you want them to be able to do. So you can start talking, you can even ask it, ask me one question at a time on how I should be re-looking at what you know, what the employee of the future for my insurance agency would look like, and you're gonna have a conversation and it's gonna build it for you. So you don't even have to get the paper out if you don't want to. You could just start talking to it or you can type to it or whatever it might be. So no, but I I I digress, Mike, but that's what you're talking about. Like, yes, it doesn't matter.

I'm glad you did that. I mean, whatever your mode of operation is, that's fine. Or it could be GPT, it could be Claude. Whatever it is, but use it. And most importantly, get clear on who that person is because it's critically, critically important that as you begin to pursue these people, that you begin to pursue people that are tech enabled, that are forward-thinking, that are A players, that are thinking about the future. I mean, let's just drop something that's very real. There's two things that have occurred within the last, I don't know, a couple of weeks within the industry. I mean, across your right. I'm saying it because it's public information anyway. You know, they they uh put notice that they're gonna be terminating 2,250 positions within the company. Number three, as far as agency size in America, because they're moving those chairs or those roles to 100% tech delivery. And I just happen to know that those were service positions. That's number one. They're already taking the steps, it's smaller accounts, but they're going to, shall we say, test the ability to service 100% of those accounts with technology. So, is it possible those teammates were not forward-thinking and tech enabled and have the ability to be tech enabled? I don't know. I've not talked to one of them yet. Next, the opportunity for you right now. Formerly the number one auto insurer in America, now number two, Progressive just took him over, State Farm, has restructured their compensation agreements with a lot of their agents, and there's a lot that are not super happy right now.

Some outbound agents doing doing some auto sales. I'm sorry, some outbound AI agents doing some auto sales.

Yeah. Right? Repetitive, rules-based work, machine work. But what I'm trying to share here is the opportunity for everybody out there. There are people, if you need people in the production realm or even in the service realm at a higher level to do human work, they're out there. And that's that's just the tip of the iceberg, ladies and gentlemen. Because liability is liability is liability. And I know from my own agency, somebody coming from the captive world to jump into the independent world, can they convert? Not always. Tell me about your view on technology. How many different technology tools do you use in your personal life? Where do you seek technology as it plays in business one year from now or three years from now? Daniel, what other questions can they be asking you know, their producers and other production people to identify whether they're really tech advanced?

Um, I mean, you you actually reiterated many of that could at least get the conversation going. And then it's their responses that you follow along with those questions, right? So do they start saying, yeah, it's take it, it took my job. If it did, you know, if they start showing that it's more adversarial than it is in, hey, it's just giving me another opportunity, right? I still believe that the relationship and those that know how to use these tools are the ones that are going to get the greatest um results out of their day to day lives. That that that's that sentiment from that standpoint. And that's what I love about some of these AI, um, AI note takers and some of these AI tools is you can give it a set of criterion that you want to hear in the interview so that you can focus on the body language, which you can't, right? You're can't look at body language, can't can't, you know, get the sense, you know, it can get sentiment from the words, but not necessarily the the voice inflections and some of those other pieces. So can you have that? Can you have you're you're looking from the eyes and ears and relationship standpoint, while the AI note taker is listening to the words based on the answers to the questions, right? And helping guide you onto what the next question should be and what the next question to really identify um where they are from a tech enablement standpoint based on the answers they are. You know, also you can start to proactively, wouldn't it be really cool if there was a was uh a robot that could go out on LinkedIn or go out on some of these public sites and start researching some of these individuals ahead of time for you based on how often they post, what they post about, you know, what what are some of the certifications they've they've uh announced. Like, what if you could do some of that to already read through some of it? And when you wake up the next day, you have a list of 20 people that you could reach out to, or maybe they've already been reached out to, for you to potentially have a nice conversation about, um, and to get to know each other and see if they'd be a good fit for your agency, right? Already with, hey, here are the points I'm looking for. Tell me how you'd score it based on the points I'm looking for. These are all the types of things that when we were interviewing, we really just want to be able to listen for the body language, the reactions, the, you know, be able to don't do we get along, or you know, is are they um are they gonna be a good fit culture-wise? Things like that, right? And then let the tools do their work as far as helping you make some of those analytical decisions that you might have to so that you can focus um and get them to focus. And if they're just giving you Chat GPT answers, that should tell you something too, right? Not remember, because there's a whole different side of tech enablement that we need to be careful of. It should be something that helps support it, not necessarily take over of what you're doing, right? So, you know, and can they maybe you give them a test on how have they used technology in order to make their make their job better? Find out, you know, give them maybe there is a little test of like, hey, I want you to go and use AI to help do X, Y, and Z process real quick, right? Show me what the results came back. A lot of times we call it the garden wean itself. They agree to sign up for the homework, and all of a sudden homework never shows up, shows up, and you get ghosted.

What does that tell you, Mike?

You know, back to being coachable. I mean, that's one of my big, big items that I'm looking to uncover in the interview process. Are they coachable? Are they you know willing to shift and adapt and improve? Adaptability is also very, very big. And the other thing about A players as an example, tens don't want to hang around with eights. And you were just talking about culture, right? So if you've got players that are eights and you got a bunch of tens on your team, they're not gonna put up with eights very long. Right? Because the tens, they want a group of special people that are also tens or have the capability of becoming tens to hang around. And so leadership and ownership is setting the tone for the agency, for the future of the agency and what we're gonna become. And we we keep talking about this, Daniel, because it keeps coming up in agencies. The future of the agency and what it looks like.

Right.

I mean, that and you and I were talking about, you know, this isn't in the insurance world, it's outside of it, but I think it's relevant. You know, Zah Zeb Evans from the software company ClickUp. If you haven't heard, he laid off about 22% of his workforce, right? With the whole, hey, AI is allowing him to be able to build 10x builders, right? And then he wants to be a 100x organization. So he didn't make the decision just because, hey, I don't want to have people anymore, right? He made the decisions that I want A players that are gonna help me get to the 100x organization. He had that mindset ahead of time, he had the vision that you and I always talk about, right? The vision of where I want to go. So now I need to hire the people that are going to be the 10xers that are gonna get me to the 100x, right? That's kind of his whole philosophy behind it, and that are willing to use AI agents or willing to be a part of an AI agent-centric culture in order to help get to that 100x because that's who they want to be. They want to also be on the train of the 100x organization. Okay. And so what the the best part that Zeb said, in my opinion, was, and I'm willing to pay people what they're worth if they help me become a 100x organization. He never said he's gonna keep it all for himself, right? He wants to have the million-dollar employee. I I just I love the fact that there is a group of us, me included, who look at this as a abundance play and not as a not as a zero-sum game, right? So that's and I and I just truly believe that we can we can take this and make it what we need it to be based on the vision of where we want.

100% agree with you. It's an abundance play, not a zero-sum game. I did hear about click up. I know exactly what you're talking about. I read that and I've got a bunch of, you know, I need to convert it to my online portal, but anyway.

Hey, now you can take a picture of it and upload it to your upline portal, you know what I mean? Even with your highlights in it and your little notes on it. I love it, right? I love it.

But you know, it's not reacting, it's responding. It's responding to what's happened in the marketplace, and and it's a mindset. It's back to mindset. That's truly what it is. You know, is the glass half empty or is the glass half full? It's neither. We got to be grateful there's a glass at all. Right? And so this opportunity that we have knocking before us, Daniel, it's one of your favorite things to say. For the first time in human history. The first time in human history these opportunities have surfaced before us. And those who take maximum advantage of the things that are available for us in this point in human history and forward are gonna be the ones that are gonna win more. And to point what you just said, um, the million-dollar employee, the million-dollar compensation employee, it brought back to my mind my interview with a super high-performing agent uh who a lot of people know nationally last year, who basically told me in the interview, and they've already hit probably five million in revenue, but they have much bigger plans. That agency leader's number one goal was to create financial freedom for every one of their team members. Include paid-off property, financial freedom, and other financial freedom in their life. That is their number one goal as an owner leader.

I mean, could you imagine a world, Mike, where you sit down with uh either a current employee or a future employee, right? And you sat down and said, I want to find your financial freedom number. Let's write this down together and let's play the whole backwards on how you're gonna get to financial freedom while working here at XYZ Agency, right? What a different way of having a conversation. Like what how what an exciting, like if I was an employee, like what an exciting conversation. Now, someone might be, ooh, I don't want to talk about my personal number or my personal life or whatever it might be. And I understand that, right? We've we've had to grow up kind of guarded in that, you know, in that world. But could you, I mean, I just get a higher level of energy thinking about that of like having that conversation with somebody, right? And being like, let's go try to achieve this together. Not only are we trying to do something right with this organization and the culture of the organization, but we want to do something for you as we're on this journey together and getting you to that place, right? So a financial freedom is one of your core values, and you're in the right place, and we're gonna help you get to the to your financial freedom while working at this agency. I just think that's just just a fantastic mindset. Um, and something that I just, you know, I I just couldn't even imagine that a couple, a couple years ago.

Yeah. I mean, you know, in our own independent insurance agency, that was part of the thrust of our PX3 program. Because my only question for the teammates was what more can we do as an organization to support you in achieving your goals and your aspirations?

That's it.

And we we had people said, Well, we want to buy a car, we want to buy a house, we want to do this, we want to do that. I said, Great. Let's see if we can do this together so we can make that reality. So, Daniel, great, great stuff. But the bottom line from today's podcast opportunity is a knocking, baby, all day long, is it not?

I was like, was there a point to this one? I don't know.

I mean, we're gonna we we we started out, you know, AI and technology and the aspect of the industry now going forward. Are great. Let's let's wrap it with Jim Rohn, right? If we want things to change, we've got to change. And if you're willing to change and update your mindset and everything that's related to that and your perspective, everything will change for you.

So in my in my uh from for my uh age group, right? Think of Rocky Balboa and Rocky Four, right? If I could change, you could change, we can all change. I mean, if you have to go to another, you know, another reference, we can go with both, right?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So my question, and I'm sure Daniel's question is similar. Are you willing to? So the answer, your answer to that question, we would love to hear it directly from you. So somewhere around these show notes, click the link. There's a link to an onyx scaling session. Uh, it's the opportunity to get together to talk about your business, uh, what that future pathway looks like uh for your agency and so much more. Uh it's complimentary. Uh, we just jump on and help you identify the gaps in your agency operating system to help you. That's our goal in being here, helping independent insurance agents grow and scale their business through the proper agency operating system in today's marketplace. Daniel, great job, sir. Anything else to add?

No, this I like this type of episode. I don't know how it's gonna go, but we might have to do more of these. I liked it.

Hey, I'm always open to a Saturday conversation.

Sounds good.

All right, great job, sir. All right, everybody. We will see you on the next episode of the Scale Your Insurance Agency podcast. Take care.

That's a wrap on this week's episode of Scale Your Insurance Agency. Quick reminder: everything we talk about on this show is built to do one thing: turn your time into profit, more revenue, more margin, more freedom without adding headcount to make it happen. If something landed for you today, please share it with another agency owner who needs to hear it. This community only grows when good operators help each other level up. Please subscribe, download, and share our podcast and all your other favorite podcast engines. And if you're ready to stop figuring this out alone, Mike and I are both in the field working with agencies right now. Please reach out, find us on LinkedIn or on our websites, and we'll tell you exactly where your biggest opportunity is to scale. Until next week, build the system, protect your time, and scale the right way. See you next week.