The AI Opportunity Most Experts Are Missing

An online course like teaches people how to think, but expert-backed AI allows people to use your thinking.

Welcome to the next evolution of the podcast Entrepreneur School in the AI era. We are here to figure out how to integrate AI into the business you've worked so hard to build in a way that still feels like you. I'm your host Kelly Sinclair, award-winning marketer turned AI platform co-founder. AI has fundamentally changed how I thought about work, systems, and what's actually possible. This show is about navigating that new reality together. It's going to be a wild ride, my friend, but I truly believe there's a way to leverage AI in a way that's intentional, human-centered, and aligned. It's an ongoing evolution, so let's explore because AI may just be the unlock you need to achieve the life-first business you truly desire.

Hello, and welcome back to Entrepreneur School in the AI era. Today's episode is a little different because you're going to hear me as the guest instead of the host. This conversation originally aired on the Cubicle to CEO podcast this summer, and I immediately knew that I wanted to bring it over here for you too. We talked about the difference between generic AI and expert-backed AI tools, how creators can protect and monetize their intellectual property, and why Andrew and I built Wave and the Bot Squad model to begin with. So, quick context: we recorded this back in May when Wave was still in private beta. So a few details have evolved since then. We have our creator accounts open and available, and you can sign up for that now. And our onboarding actually includes an AI playbook skill that you can tie directly into your quad account or your ChatGPT, and you can build your bots directly from AI platforms. So enjoy this little role reversal with me on the other side of the microphone.

The following is a sponsored episode. Hi everyone! Welcome back to the show. I'm so excited to introduce you to my friend Kelly Sinclair today. Kelly is a brand and marketing strategist turned accidental AI tech co-founder of Wave. That's spelled W A I capital A I V so little play on words, but she's the co-founder of Wave by Gravia Studio. She never would have guessed that a few coffee meetings with a local software developer would become a brand new AI platform in under a year, but Wave is here, and it's a platform purpose built for expertise-based creators who want to securely build and share AI tools while protecting their IP. This is actually the key focus of our conversation today. So, just a little teaser. You'll hear more in just a second. But Kelly also hosts the Entrepreneur School podcast and is on a mission to make AI work for humans, not the other way around. Well, I can get behind that. So, Kelly, so happy to have you here.

I am really excited about our conversation, Ellen. I have been looking forward to this for so long, and have been a listener of the show forever. So this is bucket list.

Oh well, I feel the same way. I think our best guests are the ones who have listened and been on the other side for years because you really understand like the heart of this show and our listeners because you are one. So, thank you for being here. I am really excited to dig into today's conversation because all things AI are obviously quite hot and trendy right now. But I think that the focus of our conversation today is something that hasn't actually really been discussed very much, at least to my awareness, and it's really around how creators, coaches, experts, right, can leverage AI tools securely without giving away their intellectual property. And I know there's a lot of nuances and angles there, but let's actually start with the observations that you've been making around the quote-unquote expert-backed AI trend. Can you paint us a picture of what that actually looks like in practice right now? What does that mean? How are you seeing this come into play in our space?

So, expert-backed AI is a term that I feel like I've coined to try and explain how we are now as like course creators, online educators, coaches, building AI tools based on our expertise to help our clients to progress faster through what it is that we're teaching them to do. So, what's important there is the difference is an online course. Teaches people how to think, but expert-backed AI allows people to use your thinking. So it's very much implementation application of that, and it's really, really helpful. And it's just becoming more prevalent. It's becoming something that people are expecting as part of programs that they might be investing in, they want to be able to do things faster, right? We I've looked at some research that showed the completion rate for online courses is like under 20% and you know we all have our online course graveyard. We bought it, we wanted it, we didn't do anything with it. Versus if you have an AI tool that's helping people to implement what you're teaching, the results and the execution is like 80% So they're getting a lot further faster.

That's incredible. I mean, such a huge differential, right? With that additional aid, I'm kind of curious, and you can either pull from like personal examples of programs, maybe that you've been in that you've seen done this well, or maybe just examples from peers that you've kind of you know seen offhand. But I'm curious, what are some of the best examples of AI like supplemental tools that you've seen in programs that you've been a part of or have observed that do help accelerate people's application or implementation of what they're learning in the course. Well, this

is actually like my journey into this business that I am in now, and why we even built Wave in the first place was a result of me exploring AI and trying to figure out how I could help my clients with brand and marketing to get further faster, so we would sit and we would create all of these amazing strategies. But a strategy is only good if you implement it, right, Ellen? So here's the strategy. Here's the visibility plan. Here's exactly what you should do for your business. Is how I was working with my clients, and then they'd be like, "Cool, and not do it. So I was playing with custom GPTs. I was building things, kind of like early 2025. I don't know what time is right now, but that kind of timeline, and I was creating things to help them to do things like, okay, so if your visibility strategy says try and get on podcasts, how are we researching podcasts, coming up with pitches, even reviewing your visibility? Like, are you doing stuff or are you just doing stuff that feels like you're doing stuff? So one of my kind of layers of my strategy for visibility is this concept of don't do performative marketing. So one of the first custom GPTs that I built, her name was Valerie, the visibility auditor, and she would actually ask the user, so my client, what did you do this week? And then she would rate all of those things on a scorecard based on my instructions, and produce a report and give some suggestions. Like, okay, so you posted on Instagram four times. Is that really high ROI for you, or should you try to do something like reach out for a speaking opportunity? Right, and so if we could make reaching out for a speaking opportunity as quick and easy feeling as social media, the ROI was going to be way higher. So that was where I was like, "Hey, let's make AI tools that will help implement these things that we're building inside of what my programs were at the time. And then I was starting to have frustrations about it. Like, okay, well, I

have a custom GPT over here, and a custom GPT over here, and another one over here, and my client has to take something and go from one to the next to the next, like kind of copy paste style. And I wasn't loving that, so that's when I started having coffee dates with Andrew Bartle, who's now my business partner and he was like, "Well, let's fix it, and that's why we built Wave.

I think some of the best products on the market truly do come from the frustrations, the personal frustrations of the founders who created them, and so you know you're up close and personal with what that looks like in practice day to day, and so it makes perfect sense that you then wanted to create a solution for it. So what I'm hearing, though, and I'm I'm kind of also extrapolating to like what I've just kind of seen people offer as AI components of their courses and programs. It seems like most of them are custom GPTs, and most of them are rooted in either like automating templates, if you will. Okay, here throw in some things about yourself, and then we're gonna like spit back out, you know, a pitch like you said, or you know, whatever it looks like based on a template that's been provided or created by the original educator, and or that kind of live feedback that you were just modeling for us a moment ago, where you know the Valerie, the visibility auditor, was like giving live feedback based on whatever inputs, right, the user. Was entering and with these custom GPTs, so this kind of brings us to that first point of like security concern that exists, right? I have limited knowledge of AI compared to you, Kelly, but even just from like a cursory look at this, I can immediately see one potential hurdle is that okay? If you're building these custom GPTs, you're kind of feeding your IP into a learning model that's shared by millions of users, right? That you don't control the back end of, and then your concern that you had brought up to me in some of our pre-interview conversations, which I think is so valid, is the fact that there's really no way to gate keep the access to these GPTs. Like once someone has it, they can kind of just share it with anybody if they wanted to. Is that correct?

Yeah. So ChatGPT is not a storefront, right? It's not designed currently, and this this recording is happening in May of 2026. It's not designed for helping people shop your expertise. I feel like maybe they were thinking about that with their marketplace at one point, but it's not how it works right now. And when you're the expert and you're providing your frameworks, your strategies, like think about transcripts of all of your trainings, the curriculum that is behind a paywall that you want to share with people, and you want to make sure that they're paying for it. Well, if you put that in ChatGPT, yes, you can toggle off a button that says, you know, improve the model for all with that information, and that will protect that necessarily going out widely. But the method of delivering that custom GPT to your client in the end is simply a link that you're sharing, and then you're telling your client, "Well, go get a Chat GPT account and go use this tool over there. And some of our beta users and some people that I've talked to like in market research for Wave. We're doing things like embedding passwords, so that if somebody did share that link, then they would have to know what the password was. But that's creating its own mess in that I have to now remember where the password is stored and remember to communicate when we update the password and all of these kinds of things. And so the idea behind Wave is that you can actually see who has access to your product. So your AI tool, which we call Bot Squads, so because it's cute, Andrew was not necessarily on board with that initially, but I think he's come around to the Bot Squad concept. And your bot squad is like you can see it the same way you can see somebody accessing your digital course in an online learning platform. So I can see all of my subscribers, I can see all their email addresses, and I can deactivate anybody if they you know age out of a program or they decide to

cancel a subscription, so now we have the opportunity for an additional revenue model of actually creating recurring revenue with a subscription to an AI tool to a bot squad.

So cool! We'll get deeper into bot squads in just a moment. I'm glad Andrew acquiesced, if you will, because you are the branding girl, right? So I feel like you obviously bring a great point of view there. But, anyways, kind of going back to how Wave works, I feel like Michael Scott from The Office right now. But like, explain this to me. Like, I'm literally five years old. So, if someone currently has, you know, their own AI tool created through a custom ChatGPT, how does that like interface with Wave? Are they recreating this custom bot or custom tool within Wave natively? Is Wave a replacement for Chat GPT? Like all of these questions that people are probably thinking of. Explain it to me in the most simplified way.

Well, first of all, I think it's crazy every time I open my mouth and say yes, it is a replacement for Chat GPT because we are currently two people bootstrapping a company, not a multi-billion-dollar backed organization. We also don't own the LLM, so there's that, right? We don't have to pay for the data center itself, just the inference costs. But I'm not going to get too techy. So the way that it works, it's going to be a very similar experience as a builder. So I think the best explanation is you can recreate your custom GPTs on Wave exactly how you have them built right now. You take the instructions, you take the knowledge files, and then the only things that are different, which are actually enhancements to how those operate, is that you can change the LLM that you're operating on to anything that you want. Like we have several, we have Claude in there, we have OpenAI, we have Perplexity as well, because sometimes that's better. For research-related tasks, so the flexibility is there for if an LLM, if you want to, because you align better with one, or if you want to choose one because it's actually better for the job. So I think sometimes we think the newest model is the best one, and really sometimes that means you're giving a PhD an admin task to do, so and there's different costs associated with that, obviously behind the scenes as well. So from a builder perspective, super simple migration, and then the other piece is that we now put these into bot squads. So a bot works the way a bot works, and I'll tell you the bot framework is there is an input. So, what is the user bringing to this conversation? What do we need the bot to do? So, what's the process? Basically, it has a goal. It has materials that it's pulling from. So, that's either your reference documents or potentially external sources you want it to look at specifically to do its job to synthesize, and then what is it going to spit out? Like, what is the output

to the user? So that's kind of the process that we think about for both a bot and a bot squad, because that's just multiple of those in the same process. So the bot squad is 357, however many bots that work together. It's like bringing your entire team to the same meeting all the time. They're all around the boardroom table. They can all hear everything that's going on, and that all becomes part of their context for when they do their job, which just gives it more personalization and more specific outcomes that really enhance the experience for the user.

Okay, I have a couple different questions that are popping up as you're explaining this. So first of all, love the flexibility of being able to choose which LLM you're operating off of with the instructions that you're feeding into your custom bot. Right. My question is, can you choose different LLMs per bot? Like if you're like, oh, this one is better suited for perplexity, but this one is better suited for quad. Do they have the freedom to have that range within their bots, or is it like, okay, if I choose quad, then all of my bots that I create, okay, so I see you should hear and

pick any of them you want, and you also don't need to know. Like if you're going, oh my gosh! How do I know which is the best LLM? Well, of course, we we built our tool to help you make that decision to make a recommendation. It's literally click this button; it will tell you which one is the best. Then you can experience it and then decide if there's something else you want to change it to for whatever reasons. If you're a little bit more of an advanced user, but there's absolutely like easy buttons.

I love that. Okay. Second question is with the bot squad that you just described. Okay, so a series of custom bots all operating together, sharing contexts and whatnot. Do all of the bots under one bot squad need to serve the same function? And what I mean by that is, is it like okay? I've created seven different marketing bots, and they all like maybe one serves email, one does social, one does podcast. Is it like you group together like bots under a bot squad, or is a bot squad kind of open ended where you could have like you know an executive assistant operations style bot working in tandem with a marketing bot working in tandem with like a finance bot, just trying to understand like how do you classify bot squads, if you will.

I love this question, and I'm going to be honest. Like we're still learning what the best practices actually are, but I really feel like you think about it the same way as you would your organization chart. Like who needs to work together, who needs to communicate with each other, and share information. So while it might be really great to have a marketing team, one that does strategy, and then a few that do the different like campaign asset creation, you might have an ads one, you might have a social media one, an email writer. You might also have an analyst in there that goes through and does like reviews on things, right? And those all would be a really great team. But you also might want just a board of directors. You might want to have like strategic level meetings with your co CEO and your CFO and your operations person and your HR person, and these are all bots, right?

That's incredible. And when you say like, okay, these bots are operating together, but they also, of course, are standalones. How does this differ from other AI tools that our listeners might be more familiar with? Like, how would you differentiate bot squads and how they service business owners differently than again yeah the the tools that people are already using and accustomed to.

So I like to say a bot squad is like a custom GPT and a quad skill and a workflow had a baby. So it kind of operates. The same way as all of those things, where you can give it specific tasks and instructions like a custom GPT, and you can share it like you can share a custom GPT without the things we don't like about custom GPTs, and then it operates like a quad skill because the context is shared across the whole conversation, and that's why people are loving on Claude Skills right now because I can just be over here in one conversation, and then it knows to pull in the right skills that are going to give it that lens, right? And then the workflow aspect is the idea of structure, and in in some situations, like a bot squad that I'm going to share with your listeners as well, which is called the AI tool launch playbook, is a workflow, which means that it's supposed to be done in a sequence, like in a kitchen, where we're going to create something, we're going to put something on the plate, then we're going to put the other thing on the plate, and then we're going to wipe the plate, and then we're going to serve it, whatever that's called, assembly line, kind of assembly line. Thank you. That was really hard. So that concept actually happens behind the scenes with the orchestration, where bot one finishes its job and like basically high fives bot two into doing its job automatically. So the bots are smart enough to know when they're done and who to call in next. So if you want to go through a multi-step process with your client, then you can create a workflow squad that can do that at an orchestration level, which is pretty exciting too.

Wow! And with these workflows, are we as the user dictating? You know, like if you're creating like a Zapier workflow, right? Is it kind of like a similar user interface where it's like, okay, bot one is going to serve its function, and then once that's complete, it triggers this next action, which then triggers, you know, like you said, bot two to come in. Are we designing and like populating, if you will, the the workflow, or is there something built into Wave that kind of intuitively suggests or creates workflows based on like patterns it observes, or or just like maximizing efficiency? Like, how involved is the user in conducting or creating the workflow versus what Wave is producing itself?

Well, that's a great question, Ellen, and I think it's something that we are also optimizing as more people are using it. Because right now we have two different types of squads. We have the workflow that we were just talking about, but we also have just collection, which basically just means like boardroom meeting. Who's all in here? The user can pick which one they want to have a conversation with? If you want it to like operate kind of fancy, there is just a couple of settings that happen behind the scenes, and we have a really amazing support agent, like chatbot, but not your average chatbot. Her name is Splash, and she is she actually has visibility into where you are in the platform when you start engaging with her, so she can make those suggestions like, "How do I optimize this? Should I turn it into a workflow? What are the settings I need to change in order to do that? And it just it's just a few tweaks.

Gotcha. Okay. Thank you for explaining that. I feel like there's just so many like little nuances or like nitty gritty to understanding how different AI tools and AI platforms work. On the other side, on like the student side or whoever might be using these tools that coaches and course creators are making within Wave, how does it work for them? Because, like you said, one of the issues with custom GPTs, is that you give the link to a student or a client, and then you're like, okay, now you got to go create a ChatGPT account, and you probably might have to pay for one to utilize right whatever they're trying to use. Is it the same way for Wave? Can people access whatever Wave-based tool without a paid subscription, is always a paid subscription. Like, how does that work?

Well, that is something that we really are prioritizing as we start onboarding clients. Our creators are the clients who are building their bot squads to give to their students, their clients. Right. So we know that our creators care about their client experience a lot, and making sure that that is a really positive experience. And we also know that we don't want to add friction points to our clients, our creators' sales process. So, as of right now, and this maybe will change when we are, you know, as popular as Chat GPT. But in the meantime, you as a creator can build a bot squad on Wave, and your subscribers do not pay us.

Wow, that's that. I mean, oh my gosh, I feel like that removes. So much friction to your point in the client experience, and that is that alone. I feel like is a reason for so many creators and educators to try Wave, right? Like that is such a huge value proposition and value add with the creator side. Are you planning to make Wave like a tiered pricing plan where within each tier you can have up to a certain number of bots or up to a certain number of users that they can then share. You know the the tools they create because you are actually allowing them to see who has access. Like, what is your philosophy on that?

Yeah, that's definitely part of building a tech company from the ground up is seeing what the experience is, what the usage looks like, how that is creating costs for us, and where the real value is for our clients, and all of those things are being considered as we roll out different levels of access and subscription tiers. Essentially, the way that you are used to seeing other SaaS platforms have those things.

Yeah. No. Absolutely. I'm always so in awe of tech founders. I feel like of all the types of startups that one can create, I am most in awe of tech founders. I think it's just there's so many factors to consider, and I feel like it's like way above my head, but I I love that you're creating a solution with this specific like niche of people in mind. You know the course creators, the coaches, because I feel like it's such a big segment, right? But not a lot of tools are catered specifically to the industry, and you being in that industry or having come from that industry, I feel like puts you in a unique position to really understand the pain points better of like what your peers are needing, and to be more open and collaborative in that feedback cycle. Which is why I was so excited when you were talking about starting Wave and everything there. I want to circle back for a moment to some of those earlier security, you know, security points we had mentioned. You said if someone migrates their custom GPTs to Wave and they're now giving out access, they can see who is accessing it because I'm assuming the people, even though initially they might not be paying Wave directly, they're still creating the account right on Wave to be able to access the tool. So what other security pitfalls are entrepreneurs not thinking of when it comes to protecting their IP and the way they're currently using AI to distribute their IP?

Yes. Well, okay. I want to say one thing about the the account creation for the clients. We are building a co-branded experience. So essentially, when you send out the link to your bot squad on Wave, they land on a page that very clearly says this is the cubicle to CEO Bot Squad, and also Wave on it. So it doesn't just kind of feel like a disjointed entry point into into that either. So we're looking at all of those kind of brandable, white labelable ways of actually using it as well. So security stuff, lots. There's that we could get into like some hot takes and a few like contentious things to think about because honestly, Ellen, how long? I mean, I've been in the online business world for about nine years, like since 2017 now, and we have heard like the philosophy was always give away your best stuff because people are going to still need you to implement it. Is that still true? Like how is that still true? How has that changed now that you are giving away your best stuff and people are able to take it and use AI to try and implement it without you? Some of the people that we've talked to who are our clients have said literally. I can't even believe people like admit this out loud, but like in a conversation with one of my beta clients, she had somebody say, "I don't need to be in your membership anymore because I'm just going to take your worksheets and everything and feed it to my AI and then do it myself. She's like, "That's pretty bold. What? Yeah, exactly. If you're going to do that, and don't you should. Why are you telling somebody that? But that's the kind of thing. Is like your stuff is out there, and it can be taken and interpreted. So I feel like it's important that we highlight in this conversation the awareness that's needed from the user, the end user. So we're thinking about how we as individuals use AI and how we want it to help us, like the difference between generic AI and expert-backed AI. To kind of

come back to that conversation at the beginning, is that you're getting kind of like whatever the LLM has determined from a pattern recognition and from its training is the best practice versus some. Specific learned experience strategies and frameworks and how they approach it, right? So think about how you're wanting to use it yourself, like the lens of you know asking generic AI for tips around sponsorship and how to land brand deals is fine, but I'm going to get a way better result if I have Ellen's sponsorship bot squad that helps me map out all of the pieces based on your experience and your philosophy and how it's worked for you.

Right, right. No, that makes complete sense. It's that I think it really does come down to in the age of AI, we have to think about the things that, in a way, like AI can't recreate out of thin air, and and those are exactly the things you mentioned, like the lived experiences, the specificity, the point of view, like your unique perspective on things. So I think those are all really important. Is there anything else that we're missing from a security standpoint that we haven't covered. I know you mentioned you have some hot takes. I love your hot takes. So if there's any that you've held back on, please don't. I'd love we'd love for our listeners to engage. If anything, even if they don't agree, right? I think the thing about AI is it's such a wild west. It's so new and it's changing every second of every day, so I think it's impossible in this particular category to necessarily be like this is a steadfast fact and it will be fact forever, right? It's like we're always adjusting based on new information that comes to light, and so I think though the the conversations are really important and just like making people, like you said, aware of oh, I didn't even think about the fact that people might be doing that with my my content and my IP and feeding it into you know their own preferred LLMs and kind of feeling like oh they don't need that personal touch or my perspective or expertise anymore. So, what other hot takes have you held back from us? Well, I think it's important for creators. So, if you're, you know, trying to stay on top of the game and have been in this online space forever and have been like going from you know static digital course to adding worksheets to now adding AI tools into that, and how do we kind of keep evolving the way that we're sharing things? What I'm seeing is working really well is a hybrid approach, right? First of all, I think a lot of people are going into a more of a membership type model when they're

using AI as part of what they're doing, particularly if they're teaching AI things, because you can't create a video on how to use this tool and then the next day expect it to still be relevant, like it's switching that quickly. It's it's crazy. Even even as our clients are going, how do I make like a tutorial video for my clients to use my bot squad and wave? And I'm like, wait till next weekend because we're doing a big update and things might change, right? Like that's just the world that we live in. But as a creator, you have to think about how to adjust the way that you're teaching and how to bring this AI element into what you're doing. First of all, people are expecting it, so people are actually asking on sales calls. You can see the sales pages changing of programs that previously like been running for three years, but now AI is part of it. So how they're highlighting the way that's happening, and people are asking, "I want a tool that helps me to do what you're teaching me how to do, right? But also that brand and that trust and that equity that you've built up over the years is still really part of that. So really, kind of owning it, not being scared of what's going to happen. It's still the same philosophy. The right people are going to come to you. You're going to attract the right people that are right for what you're doing, and we have to kind of believe that it's really a challenging world, a lot of scarcity, and a lot of who's first, and you know whose tool is better than the other tool? And the other thing I will say about generative AI is a term that I learned along this journey called non-deterministic. So as opposed to software, which theoretically you build the software, you know what it does. It always produces the same result. Non-deterministic means you have two elements of variables every single time this tool is being used, and one of those is the user and what they're bringing to the conversation, and the

other is the AI because it's going to respond differently as well. So we've already seen in our beta clients rolling this out to a handful or a dozen people, how their bot squads are responding differently, even though it's like this is the same kind of data that's being brought in, it's being analyzed, and what's happening differently, right? So as a. Enneagram eight. I like to control things, and it's really hard. It's really hard to control what's happening with the bot. So that's another reason why it makes a lot of sense to create a hybrid structure in your business where you are able to like look at the outputs that your clients are getting from their AI tools, and then just use your humanness to add that layer of nuance and strategy and depth. And again, this is part of even why we named Wave Wave. It's about depth. It's about flow. It's about like how creativity happens when you are blending AI and human together, not replacing you as an expert.

So interesting, and I think that's such a beautiful take, right? Because yeah, all the people who I know in my life who use AI best-they've never lost that human touch or human element. Human creativity is one of those things that's like you can't really ever fully replicate it, right? There's patterns and there's certain things, but like you said, there's so many individual factors that add those layers of variability, and so that's a really interesting perspective. I like how you kind of delineated between software and what you're seeing happening within these AI bots, and who knows, like in the next five years, where that will continue to grow, but for our listeners who are you know curious about trying Wave and are like, okay, I'm understanding now why it's so important to protect my IP and to make sure that you know there's so many things we can't control, but we can control like who is accessing what we're building and making sure that we're delivering the best, like you said, holistic client experience for our end users is Waze still in beta, and if so, how can people be next in line to utilize your platform?

Yes, so we have lots of very exciting ideas about how we are expanding our beta to more creators. We are currently, as of the time of this recording in May, doing a very small group to go through it, and we we love them so much for for doing all of the like pressure testing with us. And I also am inviting people to subscribe to our AI tool launch playbook, which is essentially an experience of a bot squad that will help you identify your own bot squad and and how to create that. So that'll get you into our world if you subscribe there. I'll give you a special link, Ellen, to share with the listeners so that they can go in and grab that and then be part of being first in line on how this rolls out, because like I said to you when we were talking, how do we have this conversation? You know, two months in advance of it going live because so much changes. So hopefully, there's an exciting update to share. Come find me on Instagram at Kelly underscore makes underscore wave, and we'll see where we are at.

I love that you're providing this tool so that people can experience the end user side. I think that's so important for me. Like when I'm thinking about what platforms to host different tools or processes or whatnot on, it's so important that I get to experience the flip side first because, like you said, so many creators they really do care about like that beginning to end experience for their clients, their customers, and students. And so I love that we'll get to experience that on that side. And how genius for it to be a bot squad that helps us figure out what can our bot squad be, right? Like what's our unique thing that we can pull out and create on Wave. So that's excellent. At the very least, you guys make sure you subscribe to that. We'll make sure the link is below in the show notes because you've just got to explore. You've got to be on the other end and experience what that's like for yourself first. So that link will be below. Also, if you want to check out Wave and what they're up to, Wave-ai.com. Again, that's Wave spelled W A I, and then graviastudio.com, and then of course Kelly's personal Instagram and other Instagram links for Wave will be below in the show notes as well. So click on everything, say hi to Kelly, and I think the coolest thing about getting into a tech product early is that you can build those open channels of communication with a tech founder, so like, you know, who knows? Kelly could be, Kelly could be, you know, I mean, a much more ethical, wonderful, rooted person, but she could be the next Sam Altman. Yeah, you don't know, right? So, like, if you if you want to make sure that your feedback in this arena, as they're building the product, is heard, like, get in to her DMs and start those conversations early. I think some of my favorite tech founders. I've built those relationships early, and it makes a world of difference down the line in terms of like where your requests kind of fall

on the product roadmap and whatnot. So that's my little little pro tip. At the very least, send a connection and say hi. So

yes, please. We are so open to that. It's actually what I was most excited about building something new was to have real humans give real feedback to help us make the decisions. So it's not just Andrew and I going, "Ooh, this would be fun. Ooh, let's do this! Like we can shiny object our own like spirals all day long, but now that we're seeing how people are using it and getting that influence, it's really also another wonderful blend of bringing the humans behind the scenes into an AI company.

Yeah, 100% Kelly. Thank you so much. I again am always in awe of what you are building, so thank you for taking the time to come share with us while you're in the trenches, changing day by day, and thank you all for tuning in. As always, we will catch you in next week's episode.

Thank you for listening. If this episode got you thinking about how AI is impacting your business and what it might look like to integrate it in a way that actually fits, I'd love to help you think that through. You can book an AI strategy chat using the link in the show notes. It's a space to talk about where you are, what's shifting, and how to move forward with intention. And if this episode was helpful, please share it with another business owner who's navigating this evolution too. And make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss what's coming next.