Picking a Pony and Other Myths of Success - Janine Bolon (Revisited)

Welcome back to Your Brain On Positive. All the love and support you need is residing inside of you. And we're going to make it easier to turn it on.

When it comes to your brain being on positive, some brains are just a little more electrified than others. And today you are going to meet one that has the electricity, his electricity history, so glad you like that. Janine.

That's great.

So Janine Bolon. Now, I know you from broadcasting, I know you from our mastermind. I also know that there are two sides of you. And that's sort of like what they expect that to there are two sides of me that people I'm bringing on the show have two sides. So which side do you want to talk about first, because we are going to get it all together by the end.

Okay. Let's just start off with the thing that is solid that a lot of people do know about me. And that is I'm an analytical biochemist. I was trained in automation and robotics. I've worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 15 years before I ever started having a family. I was one of those women that the media villainized because we were waiting until we were in our late 30s and early 40s. Before we were having children, this was back before you had maternity leave and those sorts of things. So yes, there was a lot of hubbub regarding that. So that's kind of the analytical side of me. But then there's also the fun intuitive side of me as well.

But when you're not working in that kind of environment now.

Oh, no. But that is where a lot of my training is. And a lot of people asked me, How did I get so good with systems and processes. And I'm like, I spent 15 years automating things that people told me were impossible to automate. And I found a way to use stepper motors instead of servo, motor, stuff like that, that was kind of a hardware junky

hardware junkie. Okay, so now you're kind of a software junkie, you go to the softer side of life, right? But systems and processes are one of the things that Katharine Hepburn said that schedule set her free. Yeah, that she because she had such a set routine, that that gave her the freedom. And I think it's it's freedom from the mental clutter of having to make 100 decisions every day, you could just set up a system. You do that now in a lot of different ways.

Right? Decision, fatigue is real. And my brain can operate incredibly fast. And I learned that when I was working in corporate America, I felt like a lot of folks were just so slow to pick up information. And don't think that it was an ego thing. It was just like, I would get things very quickly. And I learned fast. And I had a flexibility in my thinking that I'm sure somebody would have some sort of mental health issue now label me with something. But at the time, it was just I was very quick. And I was able to really cottoned to C++ and subroutine programming very, very fast. So I had my keyboard totally automated, where I could hit three keystrokes and the robots and the automation, the whole laboratory would crank up and do things. And, you know, people just thought I was a magician with that. So I could keep a lot of things moving very quickly, if remember, this is back in 1995 through 1996. So we were using RS 232 cables, and two megabytes of memory. And remember when we got one whole gig that we were allowed to have a department is 35 scientists and we felt like we were given Nirvana on late. So that kind of lets you know where the error was. I was running in.

That was back when it never dawned on anybody that programs would get complicated. Or that we wouldn't be wanting to store documents on a telephone. You can't I mean, who knew right? We're new

Star Trek The Next Generation had just come out. Wesley Crusher was just beginning to become of this icon for all us nerds.

Oh, there you go. What a great icon. The idea that it was okay. To actually explored live in to be present to and not be judged for what makes you unique and different. Because that's what Wesley Crusher brought it and here's this really precocious, really bright, very analytical brain, you know, can figure stuff out quickly. And he wasn't told to sit down and shut up. Which would have happened a generation earlier.

You bet you and I've lived it. Yeah,

no doubt. Yeah. I'm the youngest of four girls. I had three older sisters. I lived it.

Yes, you did.

So what's your lived it story? What did you have to live through to get to be who you are now.

There are so many elements to that my life has been quite the adventure story, it was so out of the box relative to what most people have lived in my sphere of influence that I ended up writing a trilogy, seeking the divine finding the divine and expressing the divine, because I just didn't know how else to share it with people because it was so intricate, and also wild. And people were like, Janine, you really need to write this as nonfiction. And I thought, I have to make it fictional. I don't think anybody's gonna believe me. And they're like, you've got to make this nonfiction because I was trying to hide. I didn't really want to bring my story out to people. I guess the biggest one is that my father was in the military. He was a Navy. He was in the Navy. He was a master chief. And so when you had the Spartans come on Halo, I was like, Oh, my God, my kids were playing the game. That was my dad. Yeah. He was this larger than life. Dad, for me, he could do anything. They were amazing. Yeah, amazing tools. And he had education that was all self taught. And so for me, that's kind of what made me so flexible, and be able to operate in what some people would consider hostile environments. It was very simple for me, because I'd been in areas where I didn't know the language, and I had to figure it out rather quickly. And, and then, of course, there's always the universal language and everybody, everybody goes, What's that? And I go mathematics, when it comes to science, you can stand at a chalkboard and write mathematical equations. And believe it or not, you can communicate with people who have no idea what your your language is. And I got to do that in a room with five other people. And that was a very special moment for me. All right, what country were you in? And how old were you?

My middle. So for my middle school years, I was in Japan. For my high school. Yeah. And then for I'm sorry, elementary school years, I was in Japan middle school years, I was in on an island in Eleuthero. In the Bahamas. And then for high school, my mother and father decided that they wanted to retire to southern Missouri. And that was the biggest culture shock of my life. I was in a county of people who thought that leaving why leaves the county they had never left the county in their entire lives. Because what was the point? Big work, you know, and I, I was in awe, because here I was at 17 having been traveled the world and felt like I was thinking they did the big thing that I was until,

You know, the devil went down to Missouri. I hear this actually heard it from my sister who retired out of being a Navy officer and nurse practitioner and you know, all of that and settled her family in southern Missouri. Yeah, culture shock. But being being a military brat because I was one starting school and I got a cosmic joke for you. Are you ready? I'm ready. They say opposites attract. On the surface. My guy Mark and I were both serial entrepreneurs, looks good. underneath. He went kindergarten through high school with the same group of kids in the Bronx, all the way to most of them testing into the Bronx High School of Science. I mean, saying that, I went to kindergarten on two continents, yo split my kindergarten year between two confidence because that's the life of a military kid. So it gives a very different perspective. Alright, how fast did you get out of Missouri.

As soon as I turned 18, I was accepted by the University of Missouri College in Columbia. I was gone. Yes, as fast as they would let me as soon as the dorms opened. So I really appreciated Harry Potter. And it wasn't because I had horrible parents. But it was because it was the environment that my my parents felt was wonderful for raising children and I could not get out of there fast enough. It was a toxic environment for a woman who was as well traveled as I was and I was a little too smart. I kept being told girl, you keep reading all them their books, and you're never gonna get married.

Good.

Yeah, so it sort of reminds me of Beauty and the Beast. You know, how Yes, get out of the marriage proposal. Yeah. I don't deserve you.

If I wasn't that smart, Phil was a lot smarter than I was in that regard. I didn't have that kind of thinking on my feet Moxie, she had a lot more Moxie.

Oh, my goodness. So, you know, I get the journey into corporate, but I don't get the leap that it takes to go from that environment that's so structured, essentially, sort of structure you created structure and to being an entrepreneur was behind that.

Okay, it was because I got the flu that wouldn't go away. And after 10 years of marriage, you don't expect to get pregnant. You know, it wasn't due to lack of Tryon, and I became pregnant while I was working on a virus that was called aids at the time, because we didn't know what AIDS was caused by and when we did find out was virus, then we started working with radiation and that sort of thing. And so I was in a very hazardous job. And so I was automating things because we were processing anywhere from 2000 to 3000 blood samples a week. So we were trying to protect a lot of the scientists because we were still figuring this thing out. From all of it. So after COVID I just felt like wow, wash, rinse, repeat. Very similar thing only. It did happen globally. But I think because it was airborne, you know, I had a different thing. But anyhow, so that's where I was. And they took me out of the job that I was very good at I excelled that and they put me in quality assurance, and that is basically taking a stand up comedian and making them making them an accountant. And the skill sets. And the reason I say it that way is I love accountants because I hire them all the time. Okay, I love these people. But the skill skill set required to be an accountant is in no way shape, or form the skill set that's required to be a stand up comedian.

You got that, right.

So that's what happened. And I ended up having four children. I don't know what happened, the dam broke, I don't know, of having children over the course of seven years. So I became a serial entrepreneur because I could work from home. And about this time, the internet started really starting to take off and I got back into radio. That was my first love and I became what was called an audio blogger. And I had Kellogg's as a sponsor, and I'm a sponsoring this women's show called powerful women of today. And it was with the fiber one bar. So you know, the fiber one bar had just come out. And they were my sponsor for that Audio Blog.

All right, so for everybody who's ever listened to a podcast ever aspired to be a podcast says is a podcast host. close this gap for me. Okay, serial entrepreneur, audio blogger got that what we now call a podcast sponsor. You just went into a foreign world. For most podcasts. It's something they aspire to dream of, you know, been told it's elusive, etc, etc.

How did that happen?

I attended a conference that was on food for the 21st century. And while I was there, I was known as one of the reporters, I wasn't considered to be in media because I was this newfangled sort of reporter called a blogger. And they didn't understand I was an audio blogger, that but they saw me as a blogger, so they thought I sat and wrote articles. And so I was treated like media in that regard. And when they found out it was technically radio, but see, it was so novel, people kept making all of these assumptions and I let them make their assumptions. I never lied. I always said exactly what I did was on blog talk radio, I always was very upfront about it. And so Kellogg's got interested because of that conference,

Log talk, radio. You know,

they just did such a brilliant job when they named that. Didn't they do a brilliant job when they named that?

Who knew? Who knew what it would turn into? Exactly?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So perfect timing. What year was

that was around 2002? Two? I'm sorry. No, no. 2007 to 2009. And sometimes get my years messed up. I always tell people if you see it written down, go with that, not what I say verbally because a written down. I had fact checkers. I don't know.

I get that and I so admire that about you. That it's like I don't have to be perfect to be profitable. Yeah, I mean, it's like, I'm just gonna show up and be me, and I'll get help. Where do I begin?

Right? That's why I hire people who have different skill sets than I,

you know, it's really important. I think you just hit upon something that might solve all the problems of the planet. What if we just built villages of people who had different skill sets? So they weren't all, you know, super quick problem solvers. And they weren't all, you know? Whatever other people are hit on, like you. Yeah, thank God. I mean, I have I have brilliant friends like you. You know what one of mine created a quiz that allowed me to find out that I'm by nature a problem solver. And the joke is that we just take in massive amounts of information, and warp speed, say, Oh, this is the solution. And if you push on me really, really hard, then I will go back and explain. But if you don't push on me, I don't know what I did. Yeah. The good skill set to have, except in teamwork, and that's a whole nother skill set. It seems like you've mastered this idea of teamwork.

I had to because back in the day, I was an analytical biochemist. And I had to work with electronic mechanical engineers on the automation and robots that were coming down the pike, we were building these things. So it was quarter of a million dollar to $3 million robots. And it looked nothing like the cute things you get to see at the expos. We were building them on tables and three dimensional variances, we had 10 variables, we were operating at once on a lot of the research development. And so they were very complicated. And yet at the same time, it took nothing to cause them to break down. So I really was good at being able to talk to the engineers, talk to the chemists, and talk to the software geeks who were building the software for this stuff. And so that's that being that liaison kind of helped me understand team dynamics.

Whoa, okay, so you were what held the team together and made communication possible?

Yes, I was in the hospital back in the day, I was called the unit clerk, you know, you're the in charge of the unit. And you make sure radiology is where they need to be the surgery and pre and post op. Yeah, you're basically the brain or the hub of the activity.

So now you're the hub of two different venues to two different endeavors. And I don't know if you're trying to bring them together. But I'd love to just take everybody on a short journey into what's so good about having dual trajectories going on at the same time. People what they are, because I am not going to explain that that's your job.

Yeah. Okay. So I'm an author who is currently working on book number 12, and 13. Okay. And I write in four different genres I write in for business owners, I write for authors, podcasters, okay. And I help people with debt free living. And I have a group that are called my practical mystics. And so that's kind of what Jackie's alluding to is she wants really wants me to talk about the practical mistakes. So usually keep that one under the rug, because that's the woowoo side. And when you're talking to a bunch of people about analytical biochemistry, they usually glaze over if you start talking woowoo unless you do it in the arena of multi dimensional physics, or, you know, the multiverse if you go into the comic book world. So that's how I'm used to phrasing my woowoo is so that engineers and software designers can chat with me about that. So that is the other area, what is the benefit to, to working to Jack or in my case, for I have four trajectories at once is I do a proof of concept on one that I'm very solid that I know that demographic very well. And before I move forward with the other three with that idea, I've already tested it beta tested it have proof of concept, and then I move forward, and then that's how you stay profitable. So

you just saw the challenge of entrepreneurialism today. Very few of us. Other people come into entrepreneurialism, understanding even the concept of proof of concept and the idea of prove it. And this is what I ranted about on my tic tac channel was that people are automating before they've gotten competent, you know, so they're investing in software's and things but they don't even know that they have a viable product. And so yeah, that's I fell into that world. And I'd love to have just a moment of sanity and clarity for everybody on this topic. I, because I doesn't really matter to me, whether it's the business owners, or the authors and podcasters, or the debt free living people, and we probably have read some similar books on that topic. Yeah, or it's a

practical missed it. The reality is that if you want to be rewarded for what

you're doing outside of a gob outside of a W two employee,

this is the concept that changes everything. So what is the simplest way to explain proof of concept to someone?

Has somebody put money into your Venmo account? For what you do? That's proof of concept.

Isn't that an interesting simple answer, I really liked that. Were the money is that's where the magic is. Yeah, if one person's willing to buy it, then perhaps there will be more people like them that you can find who will also be willing to buy it. Alright, we're gonna take a whack at this because the elephant in the room is most people think they have to sell something, as opposed to create something that somebody is willing to buy. Can you speak to that? Because you've had people willing to buy your stuff in four different arenas plus your your bread and butter business plus? Yep. So what what is it that people don't get yet about this process?

The Boeing 747 was not built before it was purchased. And I like to bring it back to very simple brass tacks because all they had built was, you know, the old fashioned where you had to walk up the steps before you could get into the airplane, because that's all they had. They didn't have the jetways like we do now. They had that. And they had the levers that the pilot would use. That's all they had built thus far. And Douglas of McDonnell Douglas was sitting up there moving this tramway thing around. And he said, will you build it if we buy it? And the other company was saying, we'll build it if you buy it. And he was saying, Well, will you build it though, if we buy it, and they were like, well, if you buy it, we'll build it. And that was the conversation they were having. So proof of concept is the very first Boeing 747 That was purchased was not built yet.

Most people especially I mean, you know, my audience, a lot of coaches, healers, sometimes teachers and preachers. They're not building something concrete and tangible, like a Aeroplan, like an airplane. So they they offer services yo teachers creatures do their greatest gift is their enthusiasm and commitment, coaches and healers, same thing, they come into the world with a belief system that says your life can be better, and I can help. And that's often the best marketing message I can get out of that.

Right for for the individuals that have a service based business, you still have to make it a product, I don't care how you productize it, and that's what we like to call it. When I am working with my healers, shamans, my metaphysical people. I'm like, Yeah, but what's your product? What do you give in return? And they're like, Janine, I don't know what you're talking about, I can do this, I can do that. And I said, I help people walk the medicine Well, according to the Native American traditions, or the Eastern traditions based upon their preference. And I can do that in 45 minutes, and that will be $197. And people go, Whoa, I'm like, I have a product. What do you get at the end of it, you get a sheet of paper that is walking the Medicine Wheel according to your own intention. And then we walk you through the power animals that are going to help you through those four phases have that intention on like, I have productized something that was a vision that I got on a vision quest back in 2011. But I have a product now you have to produce a product that ties your service, it needs to look like something so even if you get on Canva and you have a little computer icon, and on that computer icon you have you know two week course on How to better Better Living Through meditation. And I even have a three minute meditation course that I offer people because he told me Janine, I don't know what this, what does this meditation stuff. I mean, it's more commonplace now. And when I was first doing the online course, it was 2015. Oprah Winfrey had not started meditating yet, thank goodness, the woman started meditating, she made my job ever so much easier. I will kiss that woman if I ever meet her. Because I'm so grateful for all the work that she's done to bring this very ancient tool to help humanity. Calm, its little anxiety ridden brain down. Yeah. So plus Oprah Winfrey.

Not that you have any passion around them. Okay. When you try, try to bring up your energy just a little, a little bit more. So when did you start meditating? Because I'd love to swap meditation stories with you.

I started meditating in 1987.

Awesome. What tripped you into meditation?

The death of my mother? Got it?

And what did meditation bring you?

It brought me to a lot of teachers that had no idea they were doing, and they did not know. Did not know what they were talking about. I did not meet the teacher that knew what he was talking about. Until 1992. Yeah, so I learned a lot. I learned a lot of what not to do. I have skill sets on what not to do. So when people talk to me about their teachers, I'll say, do they do this? Do they do that? It's like, I have a whole flow chart. Analog she yes, no, maybe that's how I think is in flowcharts. And I run through my list of questions in there. Wow. I never thought to ask them that. Wow. I never thought to ask them that one, go ask them that. Find out if your teacher knows what they're talking about? Or are they just parroting back something somebody else had said, because I am a mystic. And a mystic is different from other format of religious teachers or spiritual teachers. And that is, I believe that unless I have had the experience, I don't teach about it. So ism in mysticism is experiential. So at guard totally, totally awesome. He's an experiential teacher, Russell, brand, excellent teacher. He's experiential. He's had these experiences, he is sharing what he knows it's very difficult. Joseph Campbell experience. So teacher, I won't go in through all the women that have done that, because you can figure them out. I'm just showing the guys because they have a tendency to kind of float to the surface because they get passionate. And they that's what they do are the women, we have a tendency to hide a little bit more, just that whole witchcraft and being burned at the stake kind of thing still hiding in the back of our subconscious. Sometimes it's just

a little bit of history there. And it wasn't a production of the play The Crucible when I was like, 12, or 13. Yeah. So yeah, this, this whole thing about witchcraft. I'm very much aware that it's a culturally embedded meme. And it is why women don't step up as leaders. You know, it just, it's a historical has some basis, we're gonna let that one go for just a minute, because I want to come back to this idea

of your teachers. And

because my experience with meditation, let's see would have been in the 90s. My kids were Junior High in high school. They were in a choir at our church. They all three of them love to sing. So what do I do as a mom, I started going to the church. There was a lay preacher, November the congregation talking one day, now, I've been exposed to medication. But no, my brain doesn't slow down. And now, I believe that's what I thought Chi Chi was more my thing. Yeah, let's do the moving meditation. The lay preacher said, I believe if prayer is asking God a question. Meditation is listening for the answer.

And very wise, very profound. Yes.

That rewind to like the last one. It was an answer to my prayers, because I knew I would have to take actions that were uncomfortable. In that moment, I had this illumination of Oh, yeah, Jackie, you're just, quote hiding from reality. No. It's interesting. I wonder how many other people are hiding from their reality. Janine, your journey is unique. It's unique for most people to be able to bridge the two worlds, the left brain right brain, the analytical and the spiritual that that that in and of itself is I can see why you have multiple books out. So that's really A book worthy, but you're also a woman who succeeded in an analytical field in a day in an age before. I have a niece who's a rocket scientist, but a generation earlier, she would not have stood a prayer in that field, she would have had to fight her way in and instead of being recruited out of her, your PhD degree. Yeah, I mean, so you walk into an environment where you were what how many other women were in your world?

I was the only one that's tiny.

I would have been shocked if you'd said anything other than that. And then you made the choice to leave that profession, because of the beauty of being a woman and having kids. And you're right that this is a vilification for people who got bought into the you're supposed to pick what you're going to do, and stick with it for 30 to 40 years, get the gold watch, get the pension, get the retirement and then you go play. I get the feeling you've been playing for a long time.

It was just I have I see you respond. Yep. I'm having a great time. I enjoy my life.

Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Well, I am so enjoying this conversation with you. I believe that what you have laid down as the possibility of mythbusting.And this was a myth that I left and 2014 2015 I became aware of the whole three day event, personal professional development, industry, high end programs, whatever they call them now. And they all told me the same thing, which was pick a pony. And I fought with that for years. So it tooksome trauma that landed me on a TEDx stage for me to be able to break open the paradigm of I'm supposed to only do one thing. And focus on one thing at a time, my brain doesn't work well, that way. But I thought, you know, I was doing what I was supposed to what I should I created a whole teaching on leaving should Ville because I'd lived there so long.

Do you know how to pack you know how to leave? Should Ville

guide? You've loved it. I do know how to pack? I know how to get out stay out and say the rearview mirror, which is why I created the whole leaving shitsville construct because I realized I wasn't the only one. Was there ever a time that you took yourself to should feel that you thought your life should be different or you should be different than what was happening?

There were times that I think we all walked through if you're going to be a human being on planet Earth, there's always a time where you would think well, maybe I should just and you'll have that run through your head. And I'll I'll play with that for about 15 or 20 seconds before I check it in the file and go time to move on. Because anytime I hear the word should I know it's a dirty word for me. Okay, if I hear the word should, then I know there's somebody else that's trying to take control of my life. And it isn't me.

Whoo. Love that. All right, so now we have the should alert, you will hear more about this. We're going to call it this should alert according to Janine ad, I love that I had not thought of parsing it that way. So that is brilliant. All right. So of course, I knew you were brilliant. That's why I asked you to be on the show. This has been a lovely, lovely, lovely conversation. So there will be ways people can connect with you no matter which of your quadrants. I call them your quadrants because that's the easy way for my brain to organize it. You know, no matter whether they're business owners, or their womb, people practical mistakes, I get that. Yep, debt free living people, which I believe is a good thing for everyone to pursue. And of course, when it comes to being an author and a podcaster, I am that so yeah, people listening to me are often that. So whatever quadrant you fit in all the links for Janine will be in the show notes. There'll be in the chats. Janine, if there was one thing that you really just wish they could wake up to?

What would it be?

Know what you want. Most of the people that I work with do not know what they want. And when I really push them on it, they start to see how they think they know what they want. And they'll tell people they know what they want. And I'll say describe it for me. What is it that you want? What type of life is it that you want to leave? And you're here then and quote their parents, you'll hear them, what would they think society wants them to say? And they'll you'll see the reaction behind their eyes, you'll see their nonverbal cues as I go, whoa, wait a minute, no wait, you know, you can hear hear the gears clicking in their own head, as they realize as they're reciting this to you that this is a tape. This is a digital file that's been played 1000s of times for them. And they've really never taken the time to truly figure out what they want. A lot of people don't even know what makes them happy. So but I don't try to go to the happiness route because I was accused of being the happiness cult. Like I was in the happiness cult, the law of attraction camp, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, Dude, I didn't even read Law of Attraction till 2015. By then I had already figured out my my own brain, okay, law of attraction and all that kind of stuff just honed my skills, like talk about putting polish on the stone or sharpening the saw. That's what that book did. For me. It it like took it home for me. But it was like, but I didn't know about it. And until 2015. So for me that I kind of get a little passionate about when people poke me with that stick.

Oh, I think that the icon of our age was vilified for generations. And that's a little girl named Pollyanna.

Yes, she was nobody understood Pollyanna.

If anybody wants to know the roots of reframing, it's that movie. If anybody wants to know how the law of attraction works, watch that movie, the quote on her locket. If you seek the evil in men, you will surely find it. What we focus on is what we get. I mean, the movie was brilliant, and way ahead of its time. And we use that or I heard it use I don't think I ever did. But I heard that used to shame people, rose colored glasses, you're just a Pollyanna, you're not dealing with reality, holy crap. My reality is that I can make the meaning happen for anything. I get to choose what it means to me, you get to choose what it means do it. If you think that like Chicken Little The sky is falling. And that works for you go for it. Oh my god, you did. My Freedom Day was the day that I gave myself permission to unplug from watching the news on TV on a regular basis. Yeah, to to just take control of what I was feeding my brain. It seems like you were taught that at an early age.

Well, I didn't have access to television, the way Americans did, because I was on islands a lot because my dad was in the Navy. And so I had Armed Forces Network. So I had AFN, I have radio. So that's why radio was so important to me, because I lived by a speaker. We didn't have earbuds. So I had to put her turn it way down. And I I'd have to lean into those big speakers that they have on the side of their radios. And I have to lean in on that. And I can still remember having the mesh, you know, in my ear because I was trying to listen and I had to turn it way down so that my I wouldn't disturb the rest of the family. And so that was one of my early memories was hearing things that were novel and concepts and the Phantom knows and all kinds of amazing, amazing radio shows that to some people were antiquated and outside of my time, like much older than me. But that was because I was listening to Armed Forces Network.

And they got what they got. And they put for someone who even somebody who's not a natural auditory learner. The reality is that our visual cortex is the biggest one. And so when we close it off and use something else, we're actually forcing ourselves to become creative imagers. And thank you because I didn't even think about that. What a great, great story. You, you. Creativity. All right. So we'll take a Hackett creativity another time. In the meantime, Janine, thank you for your time for coming on the show and bringing your experiences and this reality Shifting Paradigms that you don't have to pick a pony. Yes, you do have to prove your concept writing one pony at a time.

Exactly. And I'm more than happy to talk to people about how you can ride multiple ponies, but you only can ride one pony at a time. However, it doesn't mean that you have to write it until it's exhausted and then move to the next one. And I think that's where you get caught up on that sort of demographic.

Oh, we get caught up on that a lot. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. All your links will be in the shadows. Have a wonderful day.

Back at you. Thank you