Know thy self

This is When Spirit Calls and you on your journey are in the right place. This show is about magic miracles and meaning shared through stories, interviews and channeled messages. We have so much to share about who you are and your divine mission here on the earth. Let's get to it when Spirit calls is right now.

Please help me welcome Sandra bargeman. Sandra has been described as a walking Venn diagram. She has 35 plus years as a professional actor, singer voice artist is involved with sag AFTRA. She is a seminary trained and ordained Interspiritual minister, and a presentation leadership coach. The overlapping heart center of these concurrent paths being the ancient Greek Maxim Know thyself. Her solo show the edge of everyday garnered a Broadway World Award nomination. The CD recording can be found on Amazon and CD Baby. She also hosts the weekly podcast the edge of every day on talk radio NYC. Please join me in welcoming Sandra.

Hello, and welcome back, everybody. Hi, Sandra.

I love DeeAnne.

So good to have you here. Everybody has learned a bit about you from your bio. But I'd love for you to start us off today by just sharing a little bit about your story and how you got into the world that you got into I mean, you're a creator, you're an artist. Right? Yeah. add an S to the world. Yeah,

I wear a lot of hats. Absolutely. A girlfriend of mine, a Broadway actress. One day I was talking with her, we were talking about presentation coaching and leadership coaching. And she and I are both doing that as well. And she goes, Oh, my God, you're like a walking Venn diagram. And I loved that I immediately ran to Canva and created this Venn diagram for myself that I actually now use in social media and have it in the profile of my LinkedIn. But it was the three concurrent paths that I walk. And I would love to say that I've walked them all my life, probably two of those, I've walked literally as I popped out of the womb, but the three being the creative actor, the spiritual leader of slash interfaith, Interspiritual minister, and the third is the leadership presentation coach, and, and at the heart of those where those three understandings and pas and circles intersect is, know thyself, the Greek ancient Greek Maxim, that is at the heart of all three of those journeys. So, in a nutshell, that's what I do. I have been a performer and creative and a spiritual seeker since as I said, I popped out of the womb, I was I acted and sang. And I was also the kid in the corner that had the antenna that could read the energy in the room and was seeing entities and, you know, having my quote unquote, imaginary friends. Yeah, as I'm just happened to be Yeshua, you know, the story I

you know, I love I love that in the middle of your Venn diagram is Know thyself, because I think that right now, there's a lot of people who are moving into this space of, Well, who am I? What's the meaning of life? Why am I here? And I love that you naturally are innately knew that that was kind of the core. And from there, you could branch out into these other specializations or these areas of expertise, if you will, to be able to help everyone else to know thyself as well. And so it's this incredible ripple, you know, the Venn diagram keeps going, Sandra, right. More of the circles, yes, yes. No, no, no, I, you know, I just I love that you've been able to take pieces of who you are. And even though they might, on the surface not appear to intersect. Most certainly they do intersect. And so that in itself, I think, is an important message for the people listening today because I've had a lot of clients come to me and they're like, Well, I do this virtual admin stuff, and I'd like it but I'm very intuitive, but they don't go together. Of course, they go together.

Of course, they go together. Oh, well, you'll love this story. So I was after I was ordained through the new seminary for interfaith ministries that was the first seminary that I attended, I then I did a subsequent seminary journey, at one spirit, also in Manhattan, but I became a dean of first year students. And I did that for four years with the new seminary companioning First year students and and this was exactly one of the topics that they would come to me with, you know, that the notion that, you know, I've worked in a bank, and I just, I want a more spiritual job. And I would, you know, I hear you, and I understand the intention behind that. But what do you consider to be a more spiritual job? Is that something that looks over? Like, do you want to be a minister in a church? Do you does that mean Reiki master, right? And of course, you know, well, something that just feels more in alignment. And I said, well understand that there's nothing on the planet that isn't spiritual. Humanity is spiritual. Yes. Any position that you're in, you will bring your evolving consciousness and your growing depth, and you will remind people, and you will expand everyone's understanding, and you will help change the culture that you're in.

I so love that you brought this up? Because I think people get really attached to this idea of oh, what's my purpose? And what's the thing I'm so doing? Right? And then they think I need to quit my job, and I need to start a business. And that's not always the answer, although for many it is, but it's not always. And I think it's so incredible, that we can take whatever role we're in. And we can infuse spirituality into that role. And I think that's such a powerful message for people to hear. Because, you know, it's our perception of that role or that job, that oftentimes is the barrier or the block for it to be that spiritual job. And so what you just said, is, basically, no matter what job you do, that you can infuse your spirit, you can infuse your soul, you can change the culture, you can do whatever it is that needs to be done in order to create that divine ripple, no matter what the job is.

Well, and I also think, you know, there's a, I do think that there's a struggle for people, particularly in the corporate world, you know, that is so patriarchal. And so it has a system that has been founded on on that and capitalism, and to understand how can we bring this wisdom, and that and open up our understanding of what is professional and what is successful, and bring a more depth full conversation, and understanding to that, and, you know, and begin to merge that with and hopefully transform the way of doing business in the world.

I really love that. And I think that we are starting to see that I'm seeing more and more heart centered leaders, intuitive leaders come to the surface, and

that is the leadership of the 21st century.

Yes, indeed. Yeah, it is. And we're not doing business in the same way. You know, I think we're going back to, you know, conversations in connection in a different way. And there's something to be said about that. I think there's a real magic to that, in bringing us into this new space of the 21st century, like you said, you know, that we are spiritual beings having this human experience, right, we've all heard that saying before, and so how can we infuse that into our day to day into our jobs into anything and everything that we do, and that I think is the key?

I would agree and I think that COVID has been instrumental and the collective call to that and reminding you know, people as you started out with people are waking up to that people who have awoken to that prior are expanding that but this sense of being thrown into isolation and being as I like to say polished by you know, the, the intensity of release aspect for myself, it was not easy, and I am an introvert but I collaborate and I spent you know, wallowing a year of wallow, trying to you know, like, really struggling to be at home all by myself because that's, you know, I like my longtime I'm, as I said an introvert but I'm an extroverted introvert and I love my collaborations and sitting in front of computers all day, new, new new new, it's lovely to get out into the woods and and thankfully, I was able to do that and I created this gorgeous salon space, love. Yeah, but you know, it really was this So credible call to people to understand. So how are we going to reconnect now that we're coming out of this? And knowing that, you know, COVID was like a dress rehearsal, an intense dress rehearsal for climate crisis? Yeah. Because it is we're there. Yeah. And it's here. And how are we going to connect? How are we going to communicate? How are we going to come into community? What are these these conversations, these courageous conversations that we must have? And yes, in podcasts, but also in person? Yes,

yes. You know, I, when COVID first hit, I started speaking about it being a cure for everything that was wrong with the world. And so I was really trying to look at it from a whole different perspective than everybody else, because everyone else is like, Oh, my God, like, my world is over everyone's silver lining. I was and I tend to do that, you know, it's, it's not, you know, some people will say, I maybe do it a little bit too much. But part of that processing is being able to reframe what the narrative is that's being put out there. And I think that that's powerful. Because once I recognize that I could actually reframe that narrative that that narrative didn't need to be my narrative that that my truth could be different than everyone else's truth in that, and I sunk into that. And I reflected, and I slowed down, and I took time to go inward, and I spent more time with my kids being present. And all of those beautiful blessings came out of that. And I think those of us that were able to do that, through that time, or this recent time, I really feel like we've come out on top in a way, the people that maybe were struggling with that. Now they're starting to see now it's starting to kind of click for them and make sense for them. And I don't know about you. But Sandra, I don't want to go back to the way that it was

a lot. I don't think it's gonna happen. I don't think so either.

Yeah, I don't think we can, you know, and I don't think we want to because we were in such a sick society, in keeping up with the rat race and doing all the things it was a doing society. And so now we have this beautiful opportunity to move into a being society, right of what does it mean to be? And how can I still take action or create a ripple without it having to be this driving force, but rather a draw, you know, the draw energy of like, the whatever is calling you, so to speak? What

is the hybrid? What is the hybrid? Yeah, and you know, and that, as I call that, what is the edge of every day, what is the edge of today, as we move out of that's the basis, the hybrid, the bringing together of these potentially opposites and bringing them to balance? That is the goal. Yeah. Edge of everyday thought,

yeah, the sweet spot and the edge of every day. So that being said, you know, speaking of, you know, having these things happen in our world, and being able to choose how we respond, I would love to hear I know, you've got some really incredible stories about where, you know, spirit called you or universe kind of shifted direction. So let's have some fun. And let's play in that space a little bit. Do you have any stories about, you know, those Aha, oz, or things that have? Oh,

I'm sure that I have a million as I share the well, of course, the first one I've touched on minorly. You know, I have, like I said, I popped out of the womb, I was zeri aware of energy, and very aware of that the veil and was psychic and all stuff like that there. And, you know, but I was also creative. And I had parents that, you know, I wouldn't say we're afraid of it. But I mean, I don't have recollection of them overtly being afraid, but I'm sure that they were confused by me. So much. And so they they uplifted the creative. And of course, there was a bit of I'm sure my mom living through me vicariously, but you know, all through. So I did all of that. But, interestingly, here's a great little Aha. So I do my first play. I'm six years old, and I'm in a play. And I'm on stage. And I remember this is clear as day. And I can feel the spotlight on me six years old yoo hoo. And I can feel the spotlight coming from stage left. And I turn and I look at the person that's on stage with me. And I have this realizations that being on stage feels more real to me than real life. Oh, and I knew course I was six years old. I'm not going to articulate it like this. But this is what I knew I got then was that I touched into the ancient tradition of the where the roots of spirituality and theatre come together, this heightened sense of self. Where when you're standing on the stage, this heightened sense of knowing oneself and in the belief, the ancient belief that the gods and the goddesses were being channeled through you that if you're standing on the stage that you indeed are a shaman, and you are channeling ancient wisdom, and I got that, at that age, I mean, you know, Bing Bing and onward next and off to be forgotten and re you know, and then we remembered but I love performing and I love and I still do it and and it's been a great career, but you know, my, there was always something else for me. And I was doing just another little story aha moment, I was doing. Cinderella, the Madison Square Garden Tour Company of Cinderella starring Eartha Kitt. As as the fairy godmother. And I of course, played one of the evil evil stepsisters, of course. I was the tall one, the six foot tall. So anyway, I, around this time, I'm really connecting to the call. And I'm really connecting to wanting to step out more in sharing my own voice. And and so one of my dear friends from that was the woman who was playing the mother of the prince. And she and I became fast and furious friends. And this was about 16 years ago. And she life coaching was just coming on the scene. And you know, everyone was becoming a life coach, and it was a thing. And yeah, and she was doing that. And she, you know, we were out to lunch one day, and she said, you know, you would make a great coach. And I, you know, from what she shared with me, I thought, yeah, I need to look into this. And so I did some conferences, and I looked into it, and it seemed an alignment, but there was something that was missing. For me. Personally, it felt a little, little like a to do listing for me personally. Yeah, it didn't have all the qualities at that time that I wanted, at least I wasn't connecting to it. Yeah. So you know, I'm getting a couple of clients here and there. And I'm just perusing a website one day and up in the corner on this person's website was the word interfaith was the phrase interfaith minister. And it was like this light bulb went off. And I immediately started checking it out and researching it, and oh, my God, and I set up an interview. And within a week, I had interviewed and had been accepted at the new seminary for interfaith studies, and bam, and it was so fantastic.

Amazing, you know, I think those spiritual breadcrumbs, you know, it's, if you read the book, The Alchemist by James Redfield, I assumed as much you know, and in that book, you know, it really talks about energy, and how we can see pathways and some pathways or ArtEZ, brighter pathways, there's even a story where the, the guy's in a fork in a row, and he's like, which direction do I go? And so what I love about the story is it reminded me of that, because you could have gone this life coaching way, but it wasn't grabbing you. It wasn't, it wasn't reaching into your soul and saying, Hey, look at me. And so you waited, and lo and behold, here comes this interfaith Minister popping at you. And you know, right, you know, at that moment, that's the path.

And I didn't even know what interfaith ministry was, and I didn't even care. Honestly, I didn't even care. And this is what I would tell my students, I said, you know, I don't I just know, this is the thing. It was the next right step, at the time, on the bright path. That was it. That's fine. And I knew that, yes. And I knew that I didn't care that I didn't know what interfaith ministry would be. And I didn't need to know that because, you know, ultimately, it's lovely to have that piece of paper. Yeah. However, it was the commitment to myself and the commitment to the journey within that was the deepest and I'll tell you, my mother, that this is a story here. Now. This is an amazing aha moment. Love it. Not a fun one, an intense one, but it did have its moments. So my mother, when I enrolled in seminary, my mother was dying of cancer. And during my first year, we had had a three day party for my parents 50th wedding anniversary in the Catskills, which is where I'm tuning in for Rome today, and to celebrate the you know, celebrate them. It was also my dad's birthday. And we invited all the family and friends and it was glorious. And my mother was sick at that time, but, but she was in her, she had a lot of steroids. And she was on fire and having a blast. And she quickly went downhill after that, and that that was in the summer. And then that fall, I went into seminary, okay. And so I she went downhill pretty quickly. And so I'm starting my seminary journey, my mother's moving more deeply into her transition. And she asks me to be the minister at her funeral.

Oh, my heart just Oh,

yeah. And she and I, I would travel back and forth to her home in Florida, which is not where I grew up. But it's where the last home that she was in. And we planned it. And we wrote her obituaries to gather Wow, we decided what readings she wanted. Did she want to toast she asked me to sing, which I did. Totally sang like a crazy person. I agree. Why? It's good to laugh about it. It's so enormous. And it was quite an enormous ask Ian had, as you can. It was really an edge of every day, an incredible burden and incredible gift right now. And I you know, I would have had it no other way. Of course, I had to do that. Well, how husband is like you were a freak. Where are you when you did this? I mean, you know, I'm telling it very sassily right now, but you know, yes.

But what a wonderful gift that you gave your mom to in that and who knew that you taking that path would lead to that? You know, and what a gift that was for not just your mom, I think probably for your family as well. Because of the connection, the bond that you had with your mom's so Yeah, isn't that just so I just just feel so so good. I just asked baptism

by fire. So yeah, I say that she birthed me that she birthed me twice.

Ah, see? Yeah. Yeah, there's something there's magic in that isn't there? There's such bad we can. Yeah, yeah,

that's beautifully, totally.

I just, I love that story. I love I love that you were able to be there and create that sacred space with your mom and for your mom. And you know, you mentioned something, you know, it was a beautiful gift and a beautiful burden. And that kind of brings me into the conversation about people and sole responsibility versus false responsibility. And I just want to make mention to that, because I think that's something that's really important. You know, I bet at the time, you just knew you had to do it. And yeah, the energy and you had all the resources to be able to do that for your mom, oh my goodness, that that is what we call soul level responsibility indeed. So even though it might feel big for us, and it might feel crazy for us, we have everything that we need in order to fulfill that when we get into false responsibility. That's, that's exhausting. And that's draining. And that's all the things that we don't want it to be. And so an invitation for our listeners today is to think about, okay, am I fulfilling my life with Soul level of responsibility, where I have all the energy to fulfill whatever that task is, or whatever that mission is? Or am I feeling depleted and exhausted? And if that's the case, maybe I need to consider whether or not I've created some responsibility that is not necessary for me. And I think we do that I think that's where a lot of people were stuck even pre COVID of creating a lot of false responsibility. I know I was, I was responsible for this that in the other thing, all the things, you know, and once I surrendered to that, then I got these clear messages about, okay, what am I supposed to do? And you also said something else that was really powerful. I want to bring up you said that when you saw that opportunity for your program to become an interfaith Minister, you said, you just knew it was the right next step. Yeah. You didn't know what the big plan was, you didn't know what the bigger picture was. And I think that's so powerful, because sometimes we're looking for the full picture. Sometimes we're you know, and it is important for us to be the observer, of course, and to try and look from that bird's eye view. But I think we also get caught up in that of like, oh, well, I need to know what the endgame is. I need to know what everything looks like. And then we get caught up in not being present, don't we? We start to live in the future. You know, and Eckhart Tolle says you cannot deal with the future. It has not happened yet. And yet we get so caught up in dealing with the future, rather than recognizing that if we stay a little bit still for a moment, and we allow the energy to speak to us, that we will know what the right next step is. And you did that beautifully?

Well, I think we can. To your point, there's a lot of getting wrapped up in the story of what it is we believe that we want to create or that we want to step into. I mean, I'm truly not kidding when I say I had no idea what being a minister would be for me. And so many people have this zoom. This is the fun thing of for me to be a minister is people who meet me and like your minister. Like, yeah, I'm an edgy edgy Minister, I can have a potty mouth when I want to. And I am yeah, that's Yes. As a matter of it, so you can see them kind of like, this does not compute. But But. But that's, I mean, again, that's a fun, irreverent way of saying that there's this this construction of a story that makes you feel comfortable is not necessarily the truth. Yeah, it is simply a story. Yes. And you also touched on something that, that I love about COVID About the not knowing the future, and COVID was instrumental in humans growing their not knowing muscle. Yeah. Because, you know, because we're so we so are, are such control freaks. We just, you know, I don't want to do it unless I know. And yeah, as if there's any such thing? No, there's only one thing that we can be controlling is it's our understanding that there's nothing else but change. Right. And so I think the COVID was this. Well, I know that that it was and I'll speak for myself to have had the rug pulled, really helped me to grow and to see around me in those in my world to grow that muscle of I would hesitate to say comfort, I don't know, that everyone feels comfort with not knowing but certainly can, there is a sense of, I'm not going to pull my hair out and go and scream and yell on my pillow. And you know, I'm gonna be a little better. Yeah, with not knowing. Yeah, that that internal, that internal muscles a little stronger.

I love that. And I would agree to I think there, there's many of us who have found an ease in the not knowing and leaning into trust and faith. Right? You know, we've had to lean into trust and faith, we have to believe that there is something better coming out of this. You know, there's the story about the farmer who has this price stallion in the farmer loses the stallion, and the neighbors come over and they say, oh my god, what are you going to do without your stallion and the farmer shrugs and says, Who knows what's good or bad. And then the next day comes along. And of course, the stallion comes back with a herd of wild horses. Right. And so the story goes on. But, you know, the point being is that we are so quick to judge a situation as being bad, you know, we have a narrative attached or a story, like you said, and then we decide it looks that way, when in fact, maybe it doesn't look that way at all. And so maybe there's so much more that we're not seeing about that thing that we're judging. And so it gives us a wonderful opportunity to again, step back a little bit. And sometimes it is about being willing to wait, you know, again, I'm going back to your story you waited on the life coaching thing and look at what happened in that waiting time. And so waiting is not a waste, I guess is the point that I want to make because that waiting can be a good thing to allow us to ground in to allow us to listen to allow those messages that are always being given throughout the world for us to receive

absolutely but I would also say action is also a good thing when you're when you're unsure just to just to step in just to step yeah and and and and the action will send out the Okay, this isn't quite what I want. But yeah, I've been I've been shown more yeah out of my action. Yes. And you know the the good and the bad the judgment I talked to I did a rap and middle aged woman rap. In my in my 11th hour a song in my show the edge of everyday the solo show, not the podcast, although I could do that in my podcast that talked about that very thing the judgment Have either side who's to say what's good or bad? And that it's the alchemical balance of these two. And you know, it's like a roadmap to five d, quite frankly, that one is good one is bad. But that's just a judgment, someone else might say the exact opposite. It's the acknowledgement of both and then going above,

yes, I love that. I love the acknowledgement to both and then going above that, and you know, just like what I was talking about in terms of waiting, you know, waiting, not with the intention of waiting forever. You No, you're right, we can wait for only so long. But the waiting, I'm expressing in a way that we can embrace the waiting and be okay with the waiting sometimes, as long as we're not using the waiting as an excuse to not take action and move forward. So I think that there is a balance there, again, in both sides. But rising above that to say, Okay, this is the time for me to be still. And this is the time for me to take action action. And I think that there is a time and place for both of those energies to exist harmoniously as well. Yeah. Ah, so fun. Okay, so Sandra, you have been doing the work internally, like you said, since you were birthed. And, you know, not everyone does, it doesn't come natural for everyone. So not everyone is going to have that natural connection or that natural knowing. And, you know, obviously, you're clear cognizant, you have this strong knowing within you. But what would you say for the people that maybe didn't seem so natural? You know, I joke that I had two near death experiences. But yeah, but for people to not self induce near death, so they can expedite their healing process.

Right, like, how do I smell maybe just

to see your near death, please don't. But an opportunity for someone who's maybe listening and saying, Ah, you know, these, these ladies are onto something here, but I don't know where to start. What could you suggest in terms of someone who is like, feeling a little bit ready, feeling like they're on the edge? Right, but not really knowing where to start? Do you have anything that you'd want to share? Well,

I think, you know, it all begins with being curious. If you're curious about this, you're gonna find the thing. Yes. I mean, you just, it's truly that simple. Yes. Now, you're going to set the intention, you're going to light a candle, if doing a lovely little ritual is meaningful to you. And you're going to set the intention that you're ready to open up, you're ready to look within. And you're also going to reassure yourself, that this might, to your point, not always look like you think it's gonna love doesn't necessarily mean that books are going to come falling off the shelves into your hand and life's gonna be blissful, it's also going to mean that some of the ways that you've been able to hide from this kind of information are also going to be highlighted. So I say that not to scare I just say be aware of it. Again, it's an awareness. It's an it's a curiosity about what that is, and befriending that not again, not making it bad, that's forehead, all of this is in service that not your highest knowing. And if you're open to that, that's what you know, that it is serving you it's gleeful, to be serving you gleeful to be that you're opening up to this wisdom. So yeah, go to your local library, sit down in the in the interfaith section, explore other traditions or explore world religions or explore, you know, the self help if woowoo self help is not correct for you go into Eastern philosophy, if that's not your thing, then, you know, get into the philosophy. You know, there's just a plethora of ways plethora of doors to go into Yeah, if it you know, don't run away from meditating. But if you're called to explore ways of learning how to meditate, do that if, if not, just sit down and close your eyes and focus on your breath. It doesn't have to be anything more than that. This is not to say that there's beautiful styles and understandings and wisdoms in in different ways of meditating that people have brought, brought to their practices and brought to the world. But that's not the only way and that again, there's no right way to To do it, I think people that's really a curiosity and an understanding that there's no right way for anything. Yes, the thing.

That is the thing, because we're all discovering our own truth. And so what works for me doesn't always work for the next person. Yeah. But what we can do is we can share those curiosities and the discoveries that we've had along the way. And when we do that, that creates that ripple for people to be able to receive that information and then take it for themselves or leave it whatever they want to do with it is up to them. Because we've been so busy choosing a way that is not serving us, right, we were told to do it this way. So we're gonna do it this way. And this is the only way and realizing now that there are many, many ways and many doorways, as you said, for us to explore for us to deepen our connection with who we are for us to listen to those spiritual breadcrumbs, as I call them, you know, as we move through this beautiful journey of life, so I love that that curiosity and there is your way and not necessarily one right way or a better way than the other but your way. So what a wonderful way to wrap things up today. I think that invitation for people to be curious and for them to recognize that your way is the right way for you and go on the path. It is so worth it. It is so worth it. Sandra, how can people reach out to you if if someone is looking for spiritual guidance? Or maybe they're looking for an actress to do some sort of show for them? How can they reach out can

wear all those hats? Yes, you can? Well, yeah, first and foremost, I'll invite you to my website, WW dot, Sandra bargeman, B, A R G M A n.com. And everything that I do is on that website, and I am ubiquitous on social media. You can find me on Twitter, on Facebook on Insta on LinkedIn. You can also follow the plum. That's my salon here. Yeah. We're going to be it's a bonafide salon, where we're going to be holding gatherings, I can also do small weddings here, holding salons to encourage courageous conversations. And much the same way that you and I do on our podcast. My podcast is also called the edge of every day, which you can find it talk radio dot NYC, and you can you know, you can contact me through my website. Probably the best way I'd probably prefer not to give my email. Yeah, out loud. odd things always show up. But if you contact me from the contact page through my website, that would be fantastic.

Amazing. Well, sounds like you're pretty easy to find. So I'm sure people will be able to find you. It has been such a delight. You really are such a wonderful light to be around and be present with. I loved your sharing and your wisdom. So thank you so very much Sandra for taking time to be with us all today. And we'll see you all next time very soon on when Spirit calls.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks for being here. Bye bye for now i

everyone.

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