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Our guest on this episode of Unstoppable Mindset is Sentari Minor. Mr. Minor, a Phoenix native grew up learning to be a storyteller and writer. As he explains, today he uses his ability to write to communicate and help CEOs to learn more about philanthropy, policy, and driving social impact in their spheres of influence. Two years ago Mr. Minor joined EvolvedMD as its head of strategy. EvolvedMD works at the forefront of the healthcare industry, among other things, combining the work of practicing physicians and therapists to better help patients especially, where both a physical issue and a possible mental or emotional crisis may be contributing to the same illness. He will tell us some stories about his current work. Even in the time of Covid, his company’s cadre of workers has grown from 10 to several hundred. Sentari’s work recently earned him a place on Phoenix Business Journal's prestigious “40 Under 40” list for 2022. As usual, our guest inspires both through his stories and his work. I trust that you will find Mr. Minor’s time with us beneficial and informative. Most of all, I believe you will find his work shows that he legitimately is unstoppable and a good example for all of us. About the Guest: Sentari Minor is most passionate about bringing the best out of individuals and entities. His love languages are strategy, storytelling, and social impact. As Head of Strategy for evolvedMD, Mr. Minor is at the forefront of healthcare innovation with a scope of work that includes strategy, growth, branding, culture, and coaching. His deft touch recently earned him a place on Phoenix Business Journal's prestigious “40 Under 40” list for 2022. Prior to evolvedMD, he advised prominent and curious CEOs and entrepreneurs regarding philanthropy, policy, and driving social impact as the Regional Director of Alder (Phoenix, Dallas, San Francisco), and strengthened social enterprises as a director at venture philanthropy firm, Social Venture Partners. When he’s not busy making change, Mr. Minor enjoys health and fitness, engaging issues on social media, exploratory writing, and spending time with the people who make him smile. Ways to connect with Sentari: Website – About Sentari Minor Medium – Sentari Minor on Medium LinkedIn – Sentari Minor on LinkedIn About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes
Michael Hingson 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson 01:20 Well, hi there, wherever you happen to be today. And I am Mike Hingson, host of unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're with us. And we have a guest today Sentari Minor, who will tell you that his passion is trying to be bring the best out of individuals and entities. And I'm gonna be very interested to hear about that and all the other things that that you have to talk about. So welcome to unstoppable mindset. Sentari Minor 01:47 I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Michael Hingson 01:50 Well, what's our pleasure? Tell us a little bit about you kind of go back to the beginning. And you know, what your roots are and how you got a little bit of where you are today in schooling and anything else like that that you want to throw in, Sentari Minor 02:02 man. So just back to the beginning. That takes the first hour, right? I'm trying to that is a that's a lot, but I'll try to I'll try to condense it into something that's five minutes or less. So I guess super excited to be here. So I am a Phoenix native. I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona, which has grown so much essence when I was a little kid out. So I grew up here in Arizona, and was always a very, very interesting kid. I did a I did a a storytelling session. There's this group called the whole story that got together kind of six to eight Black Storytellers and just had them come on stage and like talk about something. And what I talked about was being like the first Black Nerd, as I put it before, it was cool. And so I was always just like a very interesting kid that loves school loved reading was pretty introverted, even though I'm naturally an extroverted person. And so I was kind of like an always an oddball, but in like, in a way that I loved and it was very embraced. So grew up in Phoenix, went to an International Baccalaureate High School, so a very kind of competitive High School. And there, I really got the bug for academics, and was really successful in that in that realm. And for those who are listening, you'll know that Arizona, great state, great state universities, but very, very big universities. And so I knew for me that for me that to thrive, I needed to find a smaller school, so I looked elsewhere. So I went to I went to college in Indiana, so I went to Phoenix, Arizona, one of the largest cities in the country to Greencastle, Indiana, a small rural town of about 10,000, to a university that was smaller than my High School at DePaul University where I studied English with an emphasis in creative writing. So I thought I wanted to be a writer, a journalist. And turns out I do a lot of writing in my current career. So that background served me well. But after college, I've always worked a lot in the social impact nonprofit space is done everything from program management, to program development to a lot of marketing, communications, and fundraising. Actually, I think where I hit my stride was working for a firm called Social Venture Partners, where I worked with nonprofits, social impact organizations, and also donors to really build capacity in organization. So folks that are really passionate about their mission, but just need a little help on how to support that mission from an infrastructure standpoint. So I got to be the director of that firm, and we had a lot of wonderful people and help a lot of really impactful organizations. Following that, I joined a group called Gen X, which has now been rebranded to older and that the mission of that organization was to really take purposeful leaders so owners, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and provide them the education and kind of the space to work really figured out how they wanted to leverage their networks and their kind of expertise and influence to make a better world for the next generation. And so that looked like curating content on education, economic opportunity, national security, facilitating these really, really intense dinners on how Jeffersonian dinners on just topics of the day, doing a lot on policy during London philanthropies. So I had a cohort, a cadre of about 30, CEOs in each of the markets that I ran, which was Phoenix, Dallas and San Francisco and got to just see a lot of really impactful and powerful people that play. And I learned a lot from them on a lot of things. But out of that one of the CEOs that was part of that group is the CEO I work for now. And the company that I'm with as head of strategy at evolved and D, and we integrate behavioral health into primary care. So we put a therapist where you would, where you get your primary care. So where your doctor OBGYN, we embedded therapist right next to them, so they can work on your pair together to some great clinical outcomes. So I've been with this company for two years, and it's been amazing learning a lot about the healthcare world, learning a lot about building a strategy for a company that when I started was about 10 employees will be at 100 by the end of the year. So really privileged and honored to be part of an executive team that's growing very quickly, and part of a solution to a growing problem. And that's me. So that's from when I was a kid out to today. Michael Hingson 06:33 How many years is that? Sentari Minor 06:35 That is 30, I'll be 37 in less than a month, October? Michael Hingson 06:41 Well, you, you summarized a lot in a fairly short amount of time. That's pretty cool. What made you decide to go to a small school as opposed to one of the bigger schools like Arizona, Arizona state and so on, Sentari Minor 06:54 you know, I just liked I just knew that I wanted a little bit more kind of direct education or rather direct instruction. So you're there. You have a there's an estate great again, great schools, but a lecture hall with 400 kids was just never going to be my thing, right? I, I went to a kind of a school within a school. So we had a cohort of same kids from freshman through senior year of high school. And I wanted that kind of that kind of vibe. And I also knew that I wanted to just really have some time to understand what I really wanted to do. I went in to college as like an econ. Econ major, and then quickly pivoted that to English. And I don't know if I would have done that at a larger school, but I love the small. The small school, but my senior year of college, I had a history class with four students, which is great, right? Like you have deep, deep conversations about a lot of things. And so I enjoyed the smaller schools. Yeah. Michael Hingson 07:55 Well, I know that I read a book. Well, you may have read it, you've may have heard about an David and Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell, you're not. And he talks about fitting into different places. And he talked about the very subject of a lot of people want to go to these big colleges like Harvard and so on, when really their disposition and maybe their talents would be better. By going to a smaller school, he put it in terms of being a fish, big fish in a small pond, rather than being a smaller fish in a huge pond, where you don't get the same level of what you need. And I know for me, personally, I very much enjoyed going to a smaller school, at least at the time, UC Irvine back in late 1960s, early 1970s. We had I think, 2700 students the year that I enrolled, that was the fourth year of the school, and it was so much better having a small amount of people. Sentari Minor 08:52 Right now you see your friends a huge squat. Well, in my mind a huge school. Michael Hingson 08:56 Yeah, well, now, I don't know, I think the population is about 28,000. So it has grown a little bit. Yes, quite a bit. But you, you've you've evolved into this, this person that loves to, as you said, bring the best out of people. What, what drove you to do that, as opposed to sticking with English and just writing or telling stories? Well, yeah, let me let's start with that. Yeah, that's Sentari Minor 09:20 a good question. I think, um, I think for some reason, I think it's probably mostly around like, I the thing that bugs me the most is inequality and injustice. And so I've always been drawn to the social impact sector. So doing good has always been like a through line in my life. And so, for me, doing good looks like helping and I think most of my career, you'll see has been helping leaders. So people of influence, kind of figure out how they can help others and so I've been really good at the coaching the advising that being a thought leader in spaces and rooms where folks are looking to me to kind of guide them on what that looks like. And it's been really I think it's been so rewarding to see you know, a see Have a company or someone that helps a brand learn from me and say like, this is the strategy we're going to use, either in our corporation or in our person in my personal life to, to launch this, this platform of kind of just social good. And I just love, I love that. And I think I had a really good time, I think I've been successful and building a brand around me kind of thinking, I think people come to me to want to figure out how to better themselves from like, a social impact standpoint. And it's been really, it's been really, really wonderful to kind of create, create that ecosystem around me. Michael Hingson 10:36 Well, have you? Have you been able to use your your English in your writing as you go? Because obviously, you're not writing books and writing stories all the time and doing that? Or are you Sentari Minor 10:47 know, so that's really, I think, one? I think it goes back to your question that you just asked, I think a liberal arts education actually helps you become just a much more rounded, well rounded person. So I think for me, I was able to come out of my years at at DePaul just learning how to think and like how to think critically and understand like problems and and synthesize them. So whether it was English or econ, I think I would have had that kind of same mindset or me, I think, also, what is what is becoming? Well, there's a lot of research around it, what is becoming more abundantly clear is that the the ability to write, to communicate, to really have a compelling arguments, which comes from having a background in English, or journalism is so invaluable. So for me, English, has helped me become a phenomenal writer, right. And then in my day job, I oversee a team that does our comms and content, and showing constantly the power of storytelling, and how that can compel someone to do something that is socially good. So I don't write stories or novels. But I do write all the time and then do coaching with my team on how do you take, take some words into a compelling piece of copy that drives someone to do to make a decision that can ultimately do good. So I use English every day. And I'm very thankful for that, that kind of the instruction and background that I have in it, because I think it's served me quite well. Michael Hingson 12:15 And I think that's the real key. My background is in physics. And although I don't do physics, and I haven't really spent time doing physics. At the same time, the skills that I learned and the attitudes and the philosophy, I think make such a huge difference. In the way I approach thing, one of the one of the things I learned in physics is you always pay attention to the details. And it isn't always the way the numbers work out. But if the units don't work out with the numbers, there's something wrong. So if you want to compute acceleration, if you don't get meters per second squared in your units, or, or feet per second squared, then you've got a problem. And it's always a matter of paying attention to the details as much as anything else. Sentari Minor 13:00 Love that sector. I've just wrote that down into the details. I love that. Michael Hingson 13:03 So one of the things that I learned a lot was paying attention to details. And recognizing that there are a lot of ways to expand. I also agree that telling stories is extremely important. I've been in sales most of my life. And one of the things that I learned early on. And I don't remember whether it was just something that I figured out, or someone said to me was that good salespeople can tell stories that relate and I think I didn't hear that from someone. But I am a firm believer in it that the best salespeople are the people who can really advise, can tell stories, and relate. It isn't just pushing your product, especially if your product might not be the best product for an individual. And so that gets to another story. Yep. I agree about that. So it's it's telling stories is a lot of fun. And I always enjoy hearing good well told stories or reading, well written story. So it works out well. So you are obviously trying to bring the best out of in people and all that. And in my experience, usually something happens to people that kind of shaped their their life plans or whatever, did you have an experience? Or Did something happened to you really that led you to just choose the career path that you have? Sentari Minor 14:23 No, I wouldn't say it links you the career path that I have. Because I think my career path has kind of been by happenstance, like I'm just really opportunistic. So what I would I would have set out to be at 22 was not what I am now and I don't think I think it's I think that's how people are most successful and how it works out that way. But I do think I can point to I've been reflecting on this experience where that might have shaped my values. And that would be so I so I came out when I was 13 which is really which is really a you know, beautiful experience. I luckily had a very supportive family. And a great support system. So my coming out story is not like a lot of coming out stories which are unfortunately, riddled with sadness, and just a lot of terrible things that come out of that. But I was always embraced for my sexuality, and that was something that I know a lot of 13 year olds don't get. But it also instilled just a competence in me from a very young age that I think happened, and helped a lot of the way that I've looked at the world, which is like to be unabashedly authentic. And I believe that one of my, I believe, admirable traits is just how authentic I am and how I show up for for people for the brands that I represent for the things that I do. And it was because I was so supported at that young age. And it taught me that like, the world is gonna view you in a certain way, no matter what, but it's how you how you overcome that, and how you manage and shape yourself around that, that is truly important. Because of that, I think I am able to go into spaces, go into companies go into these conversations with folks at a high level and really show up as myself and someone that is obviously very much passionate, very much caring, and just wants to do good. And I have to do the good because I know there are people like me that don't have the same that didn't have the same reaction to something that should be so beautiful, that I did. And I just want to make sure that all those folks as well as folks who have experienced any other kind of hardship are well taken care of too, and, and get to have that platform, because of what I do. Michael Hingson 16:27 That's cool. And being authentic. Being authentic is as important as it gets, no matter what you do. And it's all too often that we see in the world, people who just feel they can't be authentic, or they don't want to be authentic, or they want to hide and it's great when you get to understand that that's an important thing. And bring that forward in your life. Because anyone you deal with is going to certainly recognize that it was when you're authentic, people know it and people know when you're blowing smoke. Sentari Minor 16:59 It was so true. Yeah. And it just being authentic leads so much credibility to things. And also I think being authentic also means not being perfect. And I think people really resonate with folks that say like, this isn't going well, or I failed at this or you know, I don't have the answer. And I think I've always showed up to spaces and say like, I'm the first one to say like, I have no idea. But we can work on it together. And that's a piece of puffins being authentic, that is so, so, so important. Michael Hingson 17:27 Yeah, it's really important to be able to do that I when I was a student teacher, I had a math class that I was teaching. And one of the students asked a question, and I should have known the answer. But for whatever reason I didn't. But what I said to him into the class was, you know, I don't know, I probably shouldn't know it. It's not that magical. This is freshman algebra. And I'm getting a master's degree in physics, but I don't I wouldn't know this. But I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to have the answer by tomorrow. And after class, my master teacher who was the football coach, so a real tough guy comes up to me. And he said, You don't know how much you scored in the way of points and how much adoration admiration you got from those kids, because you were honest. And you know, that's always been the way I am. By the way, the next day, I did have the answer. But the the young man who asked the question also came in him before I got to say anything, he said, I figured it out. And so I said, Alright, Marty, come up and write your answer on the board. Because being blind, I'm not a great Blackboard writer. And so I always chose a different student every day to write on the board. When we needed to do Blackboard writing. I had him come up and I said write it on the board. And it was great. And I know that I had an impact on him. Because 10 years later, I was at a faire in Orange County, California, the Orange County Fair. And this guy with his very deep voice comes up to me and he says, Hey, Mr. hingson? Do you remember me? And no, who are you? Because as Marty was his very high pitched young voice anyway, he said, I'm Marty, I met you and I was in your class 10 years ago. I remember who he was. That's so cool. Which was really cool. Well, you know, the very fact that you had a good support system and so on, was really cool. And you didn't probably go through a lot of the traumas that, that people did. But, you know, if I were to ask this out of curiosity, what would you like to have known at 10? That you didn't know, at 10 years old? Sentari Minor 19:29 Oh, about that, huh? When I was 10, I think that the God I probably I would say this now, but that there's just so much of the world ahead of you and that like the gravity and weight of the quote unquote problems just aren't there. And people tell you that like your whole world, you have your whole world and so much life ahead of you and your gender, like whatever. But I wish I could go back and like the lessons like you don't have to have it all figured out. Um, all this stuff that in flux is going to change. You know, pain, it's only temporary, like, I think that'd be heavy for a 10 year old to understand. But I think hearing that as a 10 year old, like, if I could see me talking to my 10 year old self, that would be what it is like, there's just so much more that's going to happen than what's happening right now. Michael Hingson 20:19 How about when you're older? When you're 21? What do you wish that you had known that that you didn't learn till later, Sentari Minor 20:25 kind of what we talked about before that, like what you, your journey is going to be very different than what you think it is. So don't be caught up on like, what's your job and be don't be caught up on who you're dating or who your friends are, who your friends are like, Your journey is going to change so much. And you're going to be introduced to so many people that are going to push you and pull you in different directions that there's no possible way that the track you have all mapped out because everyone does it through on the track, you have all map that is ever going to kind of come to fruition and be okay with that. Like, it's actually great that it's not going to I wish I knew that then because I wouldn't have put so much pressure on myself to do quote unquote, the right things, I would have just let it be, which would have been super helpful. Michael Hingson 21:07 The other side of that is that even if your path and your track go exactly as you thought they would, if you're open to to change, and you're open to listening to people, then it's only going to enhance whatever you do anyway, Sentari Minor 21:21 I think that's probably an even better way of putting it like just be open to feedback and be open to really coaching and guidance. And now in my life, I have an executive coach. So therapists like these things would have been much more probably impactful at 21 than now because it's like, I would have I wish I would have had someone to tell me to like listen to other people more. I think that's actually a great point. Just listen to other people more. Michael Hingson 21:45 Of course, the other side of it is of course a 10 You You knew everything there was to know. And then by the time you were 21 or 25, you're surprised at how much your parents learned, right? That's so funny. Oh, yes, it always happens. But it is. Life is such an adventure. And I've always viewed it as an adventure and really love that. It's an adventure. And I think that whatever we do, it's important that we think about it that way. Because having an adventure for life, even if it's what other people would call just sort of humdrum. And it's not very exciting. But if you can see the excitement and bring out the adventure in life, that just makes you a better person, it seems to me Sentari Minor 22:33 Yes, I completely agree. That's Yes, that's a beautiful way of putting it. Michael Hingson 22:37 Well, even with that. So do you have any kinds of things in life that you wish hadn't happened? Maybe that you regret? Does anything impact you with with that sort of thing? Sentari Minor 22:47 Oh, there too. I think the big? Oh, that's a good question. I wish I would have spent more time with my dad, he, he passed when I was a junior junior in college. And we were just kidding, my mom's split when I was younger. And so we just never, like, we just were never very close. And I wish that I would have spent more time getting close because it was also it was kind of a matter of like, not even inconvenience. It was more so apathy. Like he was around, he lived in the same city, but like we never really got together. And I wish that there was more time that I got to spend with him because I think there would be so much more about myself that I learned about me. And so like when you do a lot of therapy you have you talked about your family of origin, right, like your parents and what you why you show up, the way that you do is always because of like how you're raised and your parents, it's up. And I wish I had like that data points from my dad to understand. So I regret not knowing him more. Michael Hingson 23:45 Yeah, my dad and I had a close relationship. But even so, I wish we had more time to spend talking with each other. Sentari Minor 23:55 Yeah. And then going back to, you know, when you're 10 that I think the what I wish I knew there is that also, while there's so much life ahead of you. Life is finite, like there's a will, there will be things that do end, and I wish I because when you're 10 you're like well, I'll get to it later or like I'll spend time later, and it just never came. And so that would also been helpful like that. And I think that as I reflect on that, like that's a regret of mine that obviously I can't really do anything about now, but if I were to go back Michael Hingson 24:26 other than passing that knowledge on some way to others and who are growing up and helping them maybe not make that same mistake. Sentari Minor 24:36 Yeah, I think I think it's good to have that but I feel like so many people have that knowledge already like everyone's like you never know when your parents are gonna pass or like you always you never know what anyone that you love is going to kind of be out of your life and yet still, that doesn't. I don't think that advice like empowers people enough. Yeah, make the phone call and so maybe it's just repetition like keep saying it or like I went through it. You should know this like Go call your parents because you just never know. Michael Hingson 25:01 Or go well, yeah, you, you can approach it from a sense fear like that of you never know when they're gonna pass. Or you can say, you know, they've had a lot more experienced than you and this is your time to take advantage of that. Sentari Minor 25:14 I love the way you put that because it goes to what you just asked about the being 21. It's like you can learn from these people around you that you have great access to so do it. Michael Hingson 25:22 Yeah, we we just don't always take advantage of a lot of things that we can we we all think we know too much. And as a as a person who happens to be blind. Of course, I hear it all the time about what I can't do, because I can't see. And I've learned along the way, that one of the ways to maybe make people think about that is well, how do you know, have we ever tried being blind? You know, the fact is that the concern the concepts and the attitudes and misconceptions that people have are what what drives us and what make us what we are. But by the same token, if we're not open to exploring new things, and recognizing this is the time to learn. Whenever it is, we don't we don't grow. Sentari Minor 26:07 Yeah. And you know, wonder I love your take on it. Like, do you feel like most people have a growth mindset or like a cure? Maybe not even a growth mindset, but like a curious mindset, one of the values that I have, for me and then disappear. I surround myself as being like, intellectually curious, but I don't know if most people are so I don't know, like, if what we were talking about resonates with a lot of people, but I would hope it does. Yeah, I Michael Hingson 26:30 agree with you. And I don't think that people always have as much of a curious mindset as we should. One of my favorite books is a book entitled, surely you're joking, Mr. Mr. Fineman adventures of a curious fellow and it's the autobiography of Richard Fineman, the physicist and he talks even in the first chapter about the fact that his father pushed him to be curious about everything. They were, I think, because I recall, him telling the story in a park one day, and his father said, why is that bird flying? How can that bird fly? You know, and he, he really encouraged Fineman to be a curious individual. And I wish more people would do that. Rather than making assumptions no matter how much they see, no matter how much they have experienced. That goes one way, it doesn't mean that it always will. Yeah. Yeah. And so there's, there's a lot to be said for being curious. And no, I really wish more people were more curious. And we generally tend to be I agree with that, and ask questions, whether it's about disabilities, whether it's about sexuality, or race or anything else. It I think is so important that we learn to be more curious than we are Sentari Minor 27:50 curious. And the nice thing also on the other side of that on the third person that's being questioned, having some mercy and some grace for the for the question. So if someone's being vulnerable, vulnerable enough to be curious, with you and about you, you also have to be vulnerable enough to understand that, like, part of this conversation and curiosity, there might be some missteps, but they're coming from, from a place of genuine curiosity, and in that curiosity, kind of love for lack of a better term of you. And I think that's something that we've been missing a lot as a as a society. But I, this is a this inspired me to kind of say that too. Michael Hingson 28:24 And it goes both ways. If somebody is curious and asking me questions, I feel I should answer, but I also want to understand more, more of why they're asking the Sentari Minor 28:35 question, they're asking the question, yes, for sure. Absolutely. Yes. Michael Hingson 28:38 Because that teaches me something. Right. And I think that that is just as important as being able to teach something to somebody else. I want to learn as well. I've always said on this podcast that if I'm not learning at least as much as everyone else who listens to it, then I'm not doing my job. When I go deliver a speech if I don't get to learn a lot from all the speakers around me or just being around the people who are attending the event, then I'm not doing my job well because I should learn from that as well. Love that. Love that. So it is it is kind of important to be able to do that. So I'm curious Alder, how did that name come about? Sentari Minor 29:22 No, they actually it's interesting. They rebranded after me. So when I left the company, they rebranded to Alder Alder, which I think was like the burgeoning of a seed. So I don't know that the reason behind the the tweet because that happened, right, right after I left the company. Michael Hingson 29:38 Hmm. Has it been successful for them? Do you think or, Sentari Minor 29:42 you know, talking to my colleagues, it seems like it I haven't really done a deep dive into it. But I think from what I can understand from the conversations I've had with both members, staff, you know, my peers there and then just from general viewing on social media, it seems like it's a it's been a great rebrand and we roll out of I'm repositioning of the work. Okay. Michael Hingson 30:04 Well, as long as it as long as it makes sense, and people can relate to it, of course, branding is all about trying to get people to relate to you or doing something that will help people remember you. So, absolutely. So what is the evolved MD? That's an interesting name. Sentari Minor 30:22 Yeah, so it's exactly what it says sounds like, really, our tagline is like, we want to reimagine behavioral health. And so watching medicine evolve. We, again, we're our approach to mental health. It's not, it's not new, but it is novel. So what we do is actually a model called collaborative care that came out of the University of Washington, 18 center, but we was kind of the kind of at the forefront of really figuring out how to commercialize it, and then enhance it in a way that is both better for or better for both patients, the providers and all the other stakeholders. And so I think when I think of evolved, it's like, how do we kind of evolve this model, how we evolve medicine, and especially how we evolve behavior and Michael Hingson 31:06 mental health. Right? So tell me a little more if you could about this whole concept of having a doctor and a therapist together? Sentari Minor 31:14 Yes, won't do. So. collaborative care really is and it makes so much sense. And I was I was actually on a podcast yesterday with a one of the dogs that we work with in Utah, and he came from the military. And he said, he was very good about saying, you know, the military has always done this, the military has been integrated. So your physical and mental health are, are kind of done in this under the same roof. And so it's that model of you, Michael would go into your primary care physician, they would screen you for anxiety, depression, any other negative mental health symptoms and say, Hey, there's seems like there's some things that are a cause for concern, we have a therapist in the next room, I will do the warm handoff, introduce you, and then that therapist would go about your care. And then the cool part of the model is that that therapist then circles back with your doc and say, This is what I've learned from there. And then we're going to collaborate and it's been a collaborative care, we're going to collaborate on your care, and pull it any other resource that we need, so that Michael is healthy physically. So he's healthy mentally. And it comes to great clinical outcomes. And so the cool thing about the model was that we've learned that people really, really trust their primary care physician, so you can trust your doctor a lot. If your doctor says, Hey, I think you should see someone and I trust that person. And by the way, they're just in the office next door, you're definitely going to, you're definitely going to do that. And it's just such a beautiful model to see how it's reduced stigma, because you don't have to go to a special place or special clinic to go see mental health, it's just right where you see your doctor. It normalizes care. And so it's all in that same kind of care continuum that you you're already in by being in your PCP, and just increases access, it's really, it makes it easier for folks. It makes it financially viable. And so we're really excited about the work that we do, I'm really honored and proud of how we've grown the company. And just the two years I've been here, and then now you're seeing a lot of literature around behavioral health integration. In fact, the Biden administration just put out something in the last couple of months that saying like, this is the way of the future, and we're going to put money and incentivize and, and really implore a lot of people to integrate care, and we get to be at the forefront of that. So it's been, it's been a wonderful journey so far. Michael Hingson 33:31 So what exactly does evolved do in the process evolved? Sentari Minor 33:35 So what we do is, we are think of us, if you're a primary care group, we were kind of your, your, your partner, your white label, partner in behavioral health. So we recruit, hire, train, and embed the therapist. So all the therapy parts are our folks. And so they are our employees, they do look and feel like the wherever you see your position, which is really cool. So it's essentially a white level label approach. And we also provide a lot of we do the clinical supervision, the training, and then we get to be the thought partner in mental health. And so when I came on to the your question about English, when I came on, I said, we have to start telling the story not only about integrated health, but how do we normalize care. And that's and reduce stigma. And that's sharing stories, all of the executive team sharing their personal stories with mental health and making that very public conversations like this. And there's really this pushing out the forefront of like, this is this is normal, like these conversations should be normal. And by the way, we have an option where you get to go have this conversation with your doctor, they can also tie it to your physical health. And it's been it's been wonderful. It's been great. Michael Hingson 34:42 Well, since you're a good storyteller, can you actually tell us a story about maybe a success where, and give us an example of how this has all worked and came brought about a successful conclusion. Obviously, not mentioning names or anything but yeah, stories are always great. Sentari Minor 34:59 I think I can give you two and both, unfortunately around suicidal ideation. So our model has seen, I'm trying to kind of make us this as generic as possible. So one of our primary care physicians, when they first started the program, I had a patient artists panel that he's seen for a while. So just a regular gentleman that's been coming to the same doctor for years. Very successful man, very baffling part of town of affluent part of Phoenix. So we started seeing this person and then our, our therapist, started getting embedded in the, in the clinic, and started seeing this person to and came in by the work of having both of those two people, therapists and the physician in the same place, they were able to uncover that this man, this very ostensibly successful man had been sleeping with a gun under his pillow, and had been contemplating suicide for quite some time. The doc had no idea. Obviously, this man presents very well, I he's, he's healthy, presumably happy. But just having the therapist there to ask the right questions. And also, here's the other part, not only ask the right questions, but then be there as a resource complex, save that man's life. And I think the big thing to take away from that is that people who are having suicidal ideation and suicidal thoughts don't appear, how you might think they were, they could be the ones that are smiling, the ones that are happy that whatever super successful, but it takes someone to ask the right questions to make sure that they're okay before something happens. And that's one that I think is really, really, really powerful. And then one that happened. Recently, also around a suicide was having a patient in crisis in clinic. So if you're a physician, unfortunately, right now, if you're a physician, without our services, you're just not equipped to deal with a patient in crisis, someone's going through something in your finger, in your exam room, where you happen to be there on a day where there was a patient in crisis, and it was very clear that this person was going to hurt the heart of themselves. And very soon, so are our therapists. And this is why we love our model so much, our therapist that's on site that was right there was able to deescalate the situation, get them immediately into the care that they needed. And obviously, again, seems like they're so I think those are the stories that are kind of the big stories. But there's also come some small wins, where we've had patients say, like, You've helped me with my anxiety, and now I can actually, like leave my home. Or I realized that these are some things that I've been really scared of, and I haven't been able to articulate it. But just having these sessions with you has really helped me thrive and prosper. It's just like, we have countless mission moments, every week, where we have stories of just successes within the clinics that are super exciting and hearing how are our services are not only like transformational, but sometimes life saving, it's very rewarding to be part of you Michael Hingson 37:58 telling the second story about the patient in crisis just reminds me of something that all of us hear about every day. And that is all the things that go on with police and encountering patients with some sort of mental health crisis. And they don't have the training to deal with that. To a large degree, and that creates problems. And oftentimes, a gun goes off, which isn't going to help. But we we do hear occasionally. And I've seen I think on 60 minutes and a few other places where there have been some police departments that are shifting some of what they do, recognizing what the real issues are over to more mental health professionals who are able to go in and deescalate and bring about a much more positive solution. Sentari Minor 38:42 Yep. You know, I think there's a fine line, I have folks that are in law for law enforcement. And then obviously friends who do this work in social work. So I think there's there has to be the right balance and mix. But I do think there's an appropriate response from an on call response from a social worker, but also realizing that there's a realities of the world where a police officer just has to be there. So hopefully those two working collaboratively, we'll find some better solutions in the coming years around. How do we get ahead of that? Michael Hingson 39:09 Yeah. And it's, and it's important to be able to do it. How about the docks, when you go when you go in and start to work in places? are the primary care physicians generally open? Or do you oftentimes, at least at first see a lot of resistance to changing the way in a sense they operate? Oh, Sentari Minor 39:31 that's a great question. I think it really just depends on kind of the culture of the community and the and the practice already. Right. So there are some folks and some groups that we work with that are just naturally collaborative. So we go in and they're like, Oh, we understand. We understand. We're excited for you to be here. Some take a little bit of finessing and work but I say kudos to our team for on the front end having those conversations before our even before our therapists even start day one of like, these are the expectations this is why we're doing it and getting the buy in from the physicians on the front end, but at the end The day, it just takes a little bit of it just takes what hear one story about like the ones that I just told you. Yeah, all it's seeing it in action. We're like, whoa, and we hear from customers all the time. Like, we have no idea what we did before you were here. And so I think any resistance is assuaged once they actually see the programming, and motion. But I just doing this work for the last few years and hearing more about kind of the instruction curriculum and kind of the programs that MDS or do is go through, there's not a lot around integrated health, and so are integrated care. So sometimes people are just the concept of it doesn't make sense to them. So we get to be on the front end of the education. And then of course, you get the buy in once you have the patient stories and get to see the impact firsthand. Michael Hingson 40:50 Because you've often the just something in Phoenix or is it nationwide? Or how large of an area do you care, we're Sentari Minor 40:55 in Phoenix metro area, and then other parts of Arizona and then a big a big piece in Salt Lake and then our sales team is rapidly trying to figure out where we're going next. So I bet if you if we did this again in a year that that those two cities would be expanded quite a bit, Michael Hingson 41:12 well, then we should plan on doing this in a year or two. Important? Well, so it's exciting that you've gone, as you said, in two years from 10 people to over 100. Early in the time, Sentari Minor 41:27 we'll get 100. But God will be at 100 by the end of the year. Yeah. So we're Michael Hingson 41:30 in a time of COVID, you're expanding? Yes. Sentari Minor 41:34 You know, fortunately, unfortunately, COVID really exacerbated the need for mental health services. And so I think it actually, it actually kind of rocket ship and launched a lot of our sales funnel, because so many primary care groups, and large healthcare systems were like, Oh, my God, we we see in our clinics every day, the need for some behavioral health component. And so we were able to kind of go in and be the savior of the solution for a lot of folks. So we've grown exponentially during that time, because, as I said, at the beginning of this, the problem is just so harrowing. Michael Hingson 42:05 Why do you think that the Biden administration in the government is now taking such an interest in collaborative care? And I guess the other part of that is, if the administration changes, will that go away? Or is it something that will stick? Oh, those are big. I know, I have not given a lot of thought. It's a really scary one to Sentari Minor 42:28 see the first question, I think, integrated and collaborative care. Again, it's been something that's it's not new, but it's been novel. And I think they're now starting to really understand the commercial viability, and then the clinical efficacy, the AMA, American Medical Association, and then a number of other physician based groups came out and said, like, from the physician, the MD, the physical health side, we need this. And this has got to happen. And I think the administration also understands that it's probably the best way when there's this idea of like value based care where we're a essentially, healthcare entities will be paid based on the outcomes of patients. And understanding that integration is actually a cost savings mechanism, if I can work with you and your primary care office to have a conversation around suicidal ideation, or what you might need rather than you showing up in an ER, that saves the country's money. And so they're understanding like, from a holistic point of view, this is probably the best thing that we can do overall, for people's care. I don't know, I think with any piece of legislation or any, not even just legislation, because it hasn't been legislated yet, but any type of like a referendum or initiative that starts in an administration, there's always the, the, there's always the possibility that it could go away. But I think I'm confident that this, people will understand how impactful this is. And it will be kind of an evergreen thing. It's just like, I envision a world where people were like, This is just how care is done. Like this is just the standard in the United States. So regardless, if it's, if it's Biden, whoever, if it's a Republican, Democrat, doesn't matter. This is just how we do care. And I think we can kind of prove out that model, or at least I hope so. Michael Hingson 44:08 Well, they're very fact that the AMA is a part of it, and is endorsing the concept has to help a lot. Sentari Minor 44:14 Yes, yes, yes, yes. Michael Hingson 44:15 I would think that, like with most professions, and so on a lot of doctors or the profession, generally tends to be pretty conservative. Although when you get down to the specifics of Physical Medicine, and so on, they're always looking for the next good thing. But this is a little bit of a departure from that. So if they're taking an interest in, in supporting it, that's got to help Sentari Minor 44:39 you and I think it's mostly because they're seeing patients and they're, they're seeing patients in your clinic that you are not either equipped to handle or that you just don't have time to and I think that's the other big piece is even a physician physician wants to do the right thing and help that patient. They just don't have enough time to do it. Whereas we were there to help and work on I'm alongside them to say, hey, we're gonna take this review. This is stuff that we know how to do, by the way you get to go do the great things that you know how to do with physical care. Michael Hingson 45:07 Yeah. And are able to move forward? Is collaborative care a concept that is being embraced outside the US as well? Sentari Minor 45:19 That I do not know. That's a good question. I, um, we focus mostly around the United States. But I don't know. Be interesting to see, that is a good guy. Michael Hingson 45:29 And again, it does have to start somewhere. And if it starts here, and expands, then so much the better. I love that. Yep. But you, you have a lot of tough challenges to, to deal with and helping to introduce these concepts and moving people forward, which is great. How do you how do you build and keep a sense of resiliency in your life and what you do? Oh, Sentari Minor 45:53 that's a great question. I think building resiliency is, it's like, it's a mindset and framework of how do you position things and that happened to us? So for me, I think of everything. And I was doing my second podcast today, by the way. The first one, I was talking more Michael Hingson 46:08 about resilience. Sentari Minor 46:12 How do I approach failure, which is something that you learn from and so every time that there's a challenge or setback, I think about it from a gift of it occurs, but it's a gift of I get to learn from this. And so I think that builds resiliency, I think having a great community around me, I have a great group of friends, coworkers, loved ones, a great partner, a great therapist, a great coach. And so all of those things together helped me everyday build up a little something. And then also, just honestly, not taking life too seriously. I think. Yeah, it's, you know, at the end of the day, like, I lose my job, I get all these things can happen. But I know that like, I'll figure it out. And I think that's actually been one of the things that really saved me and my mental health, like, and anything I approach or anything I do, it's like, I'll figure it out. I will be okay. Like it, it may suck, it may be hard, but I'll get through it. And that's, that's, I approach everything like that. And each each day of my life that way. And so once you have that mindset, you're like, Yeah, I'll get through it. If not, I'll make it work. And so that's been a that's been very, very helpful in doing this work. Michael Hingson 47:20 Cool. Well, at the same time, have you had major times where you've had adversity that really made life tough for you that helped them as a result, build resiliency Do you think Sentari Minor 47:35 I wouldn't say like a specific example. But I do think that I've been reflecting on this a lot more, there was something that someone who's read Instagram, which I thought was like, so spot on, which was a black man talking about, you know, you can be very successful in corporate America and I have been, but unless you're a person of color, or someone from minoritized community, you don't understand the extra kind of work and baggage that goes into, I'm typically the only in every room, right, so there's just an extra piece of man, I walk into this room with an automatic like Target on my hand, not because of anyone's like not because anyone's doing anything pernicious or adversarial. It's more for that, like, I just physically show up different than everyone else, which means that I now have to make sure that I am doing all the right things. Keeping there's just like an extra piece of an extra piece of like, mental bandwidth that has to happen for me, that doesn't have to happen for my white male candidate counterparts. Right. And so I don't think it's really an adversity, it's more so like, it's just a little harder. And I think for me, that's also shaped and how I approach things, because I think of even think of like, how we do things in the company where, you know, a white CEO, how they approach problems, like, oh, that seems like a, like, that's an interesting mindset. I don't have that luxury, right? Like, I could never walk into a room and say that or think that because I am a black man, it just never happened for me. And so like, we just I just have a different mindset, not good or bad, right? It's just different. And I think the adversity is just, there's an extra step and an extra layer constantly. And I that's what that's probably what I would name there. Michael Hingson 49:20 But you can embrace that and endorse it, recognize it and use it as an advantage. Or you can consider that a drawback. And those are two very different views. And clearly you take the former not the latter. Sentari Minor 49:37 Yep, yep. Yeah. I think it's, it also is like it is what it is like, I can't I can't change my race. And so I kind of how do you build strategies and resilience, ease around it and also leverages as a good talking point, I think it's one of the things that I loved about the work that we do it evolved in D and kind of building our executive team because I was the first I was the first non clinical employee. It's like the conversations we have about like, race and how we show up. And it's like, Hey, I can't just, you know, I could never do that, or show up to something that way we say that to a person without me being like, oh, shoot, and you can have those conversations. And I think that's, that's the beautiful thing about something like that, that can be seen as adversity. But really, it can be leveraged as a great and beautiful like talking point and discussion that can that can help everyone. Michael Hingson 50:23 Yeah. And it's all in the mindset, isn't it? All in the mindset, it's really important to, to, again, look at it from a positive, adventurous standpoint, I face the same thing. Of course, every single day, I look at least as different as you look different. And more important, have to physically do things in a much significantly more different way, then oftentimes you do, right. And you either can accept that. Think that's a very positive thing or not. Sentari Minor 50:58 Right? Yeah. Yeah. Again, mindset goes back to mindset. Michael Hingson 51:02 It all goes back to mindset. And the reality is that for me as a person who happens to be blind, and I will, and I like phrasing it that way, as as many others are learning to do, because blindness is a characteristic, it's not what really defines me. And your race. And or sexual orientation shouldn't be what defines you. It's what you do with it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that makes for a more exciting life anyway. Sentari Minor 51:30 Yeah, I agree. I agree. Michael Hingson 51:32 So what do you so what do you do when you're not working? Sentari Minor 51:36 What do I do when I'm not working? i Michael Hingson 51:37 There must be some time when you're not working. Okay, that is working. Working at your day job. Sentari Minor 51:42 I, let's see, I like to I like to fitness is a big part of my life. So I like to be at the gym, I like to read I go to I try to be in a movie theater at least once a week. Like just spending time with, like, friends, family, loved ones just like to hang out. Yeah, I do like to take long drives. But yeah, there's like a, I'd say if you're catching me on any given weekend, and I am probably reading a book or by the pool, or I am watching the movie. Good for Michael Hingson 52:17 you. My wife and I have both embraced reading audiobooks. I've taught her how to listen to books, as opposed to just reading them. So we do a whole lot more sharing, because we now read books together. And it's a lot more fun than what's mostly on TV. So we we do that, and spend a lot of time doing it. And oftentimes, when she's doing what she does, she's a quilter. And so she's doing a lot of quilt projects, and so on and I'm doing the things I am will just pipe a book through the house. So we both have it to listen to and we keep up with it. And then we talk about it when we get back together for dinner or whenever we're done doing what we're doing. I like that idea. I like them a lot. Yeah, so we just have it all over the house, as opposed to carrying something and works out pretty well. That's great. And watching movies are always fun. We we do some of it. But we've been so much involved in reading lately that we just enjoy it a great deal. Sentari Minor 53:20 I like that idea of like using reading as something that you can do together. That's that's, that's great. Michael Hingson 53:24 Yeah, it's pretty cool. And, and have a lot of fun doing it. And as, as you said, and being fit. I don't go to the gym, and I don't walk around and get as much exercise as I should. But I have a guide dog and he keeps me pretty honest. And we we work together and wrestle and play. So that works out. Great. Yeah. So so he helps the process a lot too, which is which is pretty good. That's good. But you know, it's, it's all part of life and even working with a dog. I love telling people that I have learned more about trust and teamwork from working with now eight guide dogs over my life than I've ever learned from all the experts, the managers, the ken Blanchard's and so on of the world because it's fascinating learning how to interact with someone who doesn't think at all like you do. Who doesn't speak the same language, and whose overall behavior and loan and life experiences are totally different than what humans experience. Sentari Minor 54:30 Yes. Wow. Yeah. I never thought about that. Yeah. I bet you'd have Michael Hingson 54:36 well, and and, you know, we we have a lot of a lot of fun and I've I've enjoyed working with a number of Guide Dogs. I don't know how much you've investigated me, but you may know that we were in the World Trade Center on September 11 With my fifth guide, dog Roselle. And that really validated all of the whole concept of how we can communicate and work together no matter who we are. It's all about building trust, and establishing a relationship. And that's why I really enjoy hearing about the things that you do, especially when you're talking about the docks, and the therapists and so on all learning to work together, because they develop this trust. And this understanding that you just can't be Sentari Minor 55:21 good. Thanks for those were actually some great questions about the model and how it works. So I appreciate those those questions. Michael Hingson 55:28 Yeah, and thank you and I, I enjoy learning about it. It's fascinating. I, my wife, and I go to Kaiser. And we so we use a lot of services at Kaiser and I haven't seen the collaborative care model there. I don't know whether it's there or not. Or maybe we just haven't needed to use it. Sentari Minor 55:47 Yeah, checking to see if they are doing anything integrated. But yeah, that would be like a perfect system. For us. Michael Hingson 55:56 It would be a really a perfect system. There. There are challenges in Kaiser's communications in terms of dealing with one area from another like my my wife's physical medicine doctor, she's been in a chair her whole life wheelchair. He is in Corona, which is part of the Riverside district of Kaiser. But our primary care physician is up here in Victorville where we live, and as part of the Fontana area. And there just seems to be this incredible barrier that the two districts don't communicate at all, which is crazy for a large organization. Hard. That's fair. Yeah. And they've converted everything to being electronic. But when we moved, for example, from Northern to Southern California, the Southern California people couldn't see our Northern California records for years. That's crazy. Today, so I don't know what the logic and the thought processes of that but you know, over time, hopefully things will will communicate more, or for people? Well, you know, in talking about all this, what what are some other things that you'd like people to know about you or, or the model or the kinds of things that you're doing that they can look out for that might help them? Sentari Minor 57:09 You know, um, nothing at the top of them? I think we've covered a lot of ground. And I again, thank you for the very thoughtful, very thoughtful questions, I think, for any of the listeners. And we'll probably put this in the show notes. But, you know, follow us on LinkedIn, I've often do on LinkedIn, because we put out a lot of really good content around mental health and normalizing and then, if you ever want to learn more about the work that we do about the.com, or the work that I'm doing just Suntory minor.com. But I think we talk a lot about I love the conversation around adversity and having a different mindset and then the intellectual curiosity piece. So I'm just excited to share this podcast with the world and I'm excited that you that you brought me on. Michael Hingson 57:49 Well, we will do it spell Sentari Minor for me and everyone. Okay, so Sentari Minor 57:53 it's S as in Sam, E N T A R I Minor M I N O R. So Sentari Minor.com, check out my website. We're actually in the process of updating it right now. But yeah, I'm just excited to hear from folks. And if you have any questions, I'm always open for a conversation. Michael Hingson 58:12 Well, of course, I can't resist asking what you're doing to make sure that it's inclusive and accessible for blind people and other persons with disabilities. Sentari Minor 58:19 I will I'm working with our website developer, right. Like, he was really texting me before this. So that would be something I texted him back and say, make sure that this happens. So thank you, thank you, good on you for that. Michael Hingson 58:29 And we can help with that. AccessiBe is a company that makes products that help make the internet more accessible. And if you'd like to have your web person talk with me, I would be glad to introduce them. And I think there's a lot that we can do to make the coding and lifting of of what needs to be done a lot lighter and easier to do. Sentari Minor 58:50 Love that. No, thanks. I'll make sure to connect with you. Well, Michael Hingson 58:54 how and so on LinkedIn, people would just search for you under Centauri minor or what? Yep, yeah, that's pretty easy to find pretty easy to find. Yeah, we found you. Yep. And I am so glad that we did. Well, I want to thank you again for for coming on. And I want to thank all of you for listening. So wherever you are, thanks for doing it. And thanks for being with us. And thanks for supporting unstoppable mindset with your comments. I hope that you will email me or comment on LinkedIn or wherever you're seeing this podcast. We love your reviews and please give us a five star review. We appreciate that. Because that is what helps us really know what you're interested in and know how you feel about things that we talked about. So please do that. You can reach me directly at Michaelhi M I C H A E L at accessiBe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or you can go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson M I C H A E L H I N G S O Ncom/podcast. And we You've definitely are very much looking forward to hearing from you. And I hope that you'll reach out to Centauri and talk with him about all the things that he's doing. And as I said, it's an adventure and I'm definitely anxious to get you to come back next year. And we can certainly explore how things are progressing and maybe learn more about this whole collaborative care process. Sentari Minor 1:00:21 That'd be great. I'm happy to come back on. Michael Hingson 1:00:24 Well, thanks once again for being here and for being with us and we definitely will see you next year. Michael Hingson 1:00:36 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. 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