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Lisa Wilson’s life started out as a pretty normal one. She went to school. As she graduated college she chose a career path and she was successful with her choice. After 17 years working in the human resources field working mostly as an HR manager, she finally decided to leave the field after working for three years for a company that didn’t value what a good HR manager could do to help the company succeed. Lisa always wanted to go into life and leadership coaching and so she finally did. Then, due to a surgical procedure that should never have taken place, she lost half her thyroid gland. While the doctors acknowledged that the operation should have not taken place they assured her that she would resume the kind of active lifestyle she had before the procedure. Nothing could be further from the truth. Listen this week to Lisa’s story and see how she adapted to all the changes in her life and how she adapted and thrived. I am sure you will find Lisa Wilson’s story engaging and inspiring. About the Guest: The best part of having a Human Resources (HR) department is that you have a management expert at your disposal. As a leader, when an issue comes up that you aren’t sure how to deal with, you walk into the HR department and they walk you through it. Not all companies have this. Lisa has taken her success as an HR leader in large corporations and brought the opportunity to small to medium-sized companies. Offering training and coaching before and during those particularly sticky situations. Lisa is a Leadership/Corporate Coach, a Certified Human Resources Leader, and a trained Mediator. She had an HR career spanning 15 years, her drive had her in a manager’s role 5 years into her career at 28 years old. While that drive helped her in her career, and volunteer roles with Rotary, the Human Resources Professionals Association, and Toastmasters, it was not helpful at all when she had her thyroid removed by mistake. What followed that surgery was 5 years of frustration and exhaustion. Lisa had to learn to rest. Not something that came to her easily. In this episode, she shares the lessons she learned that took her from days at a time on the couch to feeling like herself again. Social media links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisamaywilson/ https://www.facebook.com/LMWConsultation https://www.instagram.com/lmwconsultation/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is an Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes
Michael Hingson 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson 01:20 Welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset wherever you may be, we hope you're having a good day. And we hope that we can make it a little bit better. We have an interesting guest who has had some surprises in her life. Lisa Wilson has done a lot of work in the HR world. She's now a coach, and thought leader in a variety of subjects. She has also happened to be a person who has been listed and put in chapters in several books and is now writing her own. So there you go, another author. Lisa, welcome to unstoppable mindset. How are you? Lisa Wilson 02:00 I'm great. Thanks, Michael. Michael Hingson 02:02 And there's nothing wrong with being another author. Authors are good people to have around. They are. And he says, you know, but Lisa Wilson 02:09 then you realize, yeah, well, it is, Michael Hingson 02:11 you know, everyone has a story to tell. And the problem is we just don't get enough people thinking that they can tell the stories. Lisa Wilson 02:19 Agreed. And I think people are so interesting. They have so many interesting stories, and we kind of put them off as things. Well, I did that. So no big deal. But it is yeah. Yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson 02:32 I remember when we started writing for underdog I, I thought people would be interested in it. Someone said you should make it a business book. And I thought that it needed to be something of a more general nature than that. And it ended up being of a more general nature than that and people are interested. So it's, it's great to be able to share information. Lisa Wilson 02:54 Well, you can always write to write just take the lessons from Thunder dog and make it a business book. Michael Hingson 03:02 Well in there is always that. Yeah. Well tell us a little bit about you growing up and stuff like that. Lisa Wilson 03:08 Hi, sure. So I grew up in a small town in northern Ontario, Canada. And I'm a very driven person. I don't know if I was when I was growing up. But when I got into university, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. It took love. I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do to go into school. I started in psychology. And after first year, I saw a lot of my friends were in business. And I really liked what they were taking. So I switched over. And my way to hold on to the psychology and I did hold on to the psychology that was kind of my backup courses that so all those electives that you get to take. Yes. And so I kept them on as electives. And when I took my first Organizational Behavior course, which is the first human resources course, I realized that it was almost a repeat of first year psychology. And so that was my way to meld the two. And I came out and that's really when I talked about it. That's the kind of drive I had my mom used to say to me, I don't even know where that comes from in you. I decided that when I left school, I was getting a job in HR. And that wasn't easy. People don't want you in HR. If you have no experience. It's a bit of a double edged sword you they don't want you if you have no experience and I get it after having been there for a while you it's really hard to step into that role. You really do need some experience. So for the first two years, I would take six month contracts. And I decided that I got my first full time role. So did for six month contracts for two years finally got a full time role and decided I was going to be an HR manager before I turned 30 And I was I at 28 I had been offered a job as a manager in my hometown when I was 27. But I knew I wasn't ready to take it so I turned it down. And I was working for a really awesome company at the time and a really great manager and I went to the manager and I said, I just turned down a management role. And I don't want to have to do that again. I know I'm not ready, can you tell me what I need to do to be ready. And so she said a couple of things. One was business writing. Oddly, they don't teach you proper business writing in university. So I took a course. And the other was public speaking, nobody believes me anymore. But I was a terrible public speaker, I was afraid. I spoke really quietly, and I like ran off the stage, I did one employee meeting, and my general manager had gone to her and said, Lisa can't do those anymore. So either she gets way better at it, or you're not allowed to put her up there in your place anymore. So I went to Toastmasters and learn how to do that. And within the year, the same job came back up. So I, I was offered the job. And this time I took it, there was no interview or anything. They just called me said, are you ready now? And I said, Yep, I went back. And so I had my HR managers role by the time I was 30. Michael Hingson 06:00 That's pretty cool. So what do you like about or what did you like about being an HR manager and working in HR? Lisa Wilson 06:07 I like lots of different things. And HR is never the same. And I remember having a woman come in to talk to we had like an HR club at university, and I said, Can you give us a day in the life? And she said, No. And that is the reality, there is no day in the life of an HR person. It's really, there's so many different things that you're dealing with, on any given day that it's really hard to say, Okay, I come in, and I do this, because I used to come in with a plan for the day, and then something would happen, and it was all gone. Yeah, hope I was gone. And, you know, I'd be dealing with that instead for that day. So I really liked the variety of it. Plus, having that ability to connect with people. So I got to connect with leaders and help them in their role, I got to connect with people who were, I worked in manufacturing type environment, so I got to work with people who are working on the floor. And then you know, I got to be at meetings with the CEOs. So it was I got such a variety of everything in what I did all day in the people I worked with. And so I think that was a huge thing for me, I really enjoyed it. Michael Hingson 07:14 What exactly does an HR person or will take you an HR manager do what what is the job. Lisa Wilson 07:22 So this changes all the time. So they I've noticed now when I am not looking for a job, but they pop up in LinkedIn and stuff to let you know, and they've changed the name to like people and culture or engagement officers, things like that. So the role has, I don't think the role itself has changed from what I know, but they just changed the name to in the hopes of making it sound a little bit better. My definition was this, we have in all companies that that grow like that you have people working for you, that's the humans and and you're they are a resource to the company. So you need those humans, they're doing what they're doing. And I say the the reason it's called Human Resources is we need to recognize that the people working for us our resource, they are getting us to where we need to in the company, but we still need to treat them like human beings. And so HR makes sure that that happens. So there's a constant balance when you're working in HR of taking care of the business and making sure the business is moving forward. Because at the end of the day, if the business isn't making money, all those people are gonna lose their job anyway, eventually, so you need that needs to happen. But then you also have to take care of your people, if you can't take care of your people so well that you know, you don't make any money that you can't make that you can't sort of treat them so badly, that you're making a ton of money, but they're not going to stay. So there's it was a constant balance I say that you're looking at so probably the other reason I liked it is is there was that constant. Okay, how do we make sure the business runs, but still take care of our staff. Michael Hingson 08:54 One of the things about society that still very much exists today, when we talk about diversity in, in the workforce and so on, is a disabilities tend to be left out, we just still don't see the same level. And I specifically deal of course with blindness, but it goes beyond that. And and I have found in a lot of us have found that HR people tend to be a reflection of society. How are you going to do this job or we we just aren't convinced that you could could possibly do the work. And some of us have the view that HR was supposed to be kind of a little bit more open than that. But it doesn't always work that Lisa Wilson 09:42 way. So I think that it's like anything else. Some of us are different than others. And while some are better at it, some are, you know, terrible at it. And I think it's that whole balance of we still have to take care of the company but we also need to take care of our people. So And where does that balance fit in? I heard a really great presentation about this. And, and the reality is, if there's like for you, you can't see the world isn't set up for you. And so you are, for lack of a better term smarter than the rest of us. Because every day you have to make tougher decisions than we do. And you've learned to be adaptive. And so this the presentation was basically that and it was actually a person who I believe he was hard of hearing. I don't think he was deaf. I think he was hard of hearing. Because he came in he spoke to us. And, and we were able to ask questions, but I don't I'm not I can't remember exactly how they got the questions to him. And he ran a Tim Hortons. And he talked about that, that, you know, he was he really worked really hard to make sure he hired people with with disabilities. And he told us the story of a woman who was was also deaf, and she was completely deaf and was working at Tim Hortons. Really smart woman, like had a really great education, but couldn't get a job anywhere, for exactly the reasons you're saying is that they that the HR people or the company themselves, sometimes the HR, people are fighting for it, just so you know. But sometimes it's an uphill battle, and we have to pick our battles. And so she I can't remember what Her background was, but like science based kind of thing. She was working at Tim Hortons, and she had been helping in the front, I think. And then she said, Well, I'd like to be a baker. And he kind of said, What you said was, okay, great. We use audible tones to tell us when everything's done. So go in the kitchen and take a look around and see how you might figure that out. She came back within two minutes. And she said, what's the numbers on the on the ovens? And he said, Oh, it's a countdown timer. And she said, so the audible noises are for the lazy bakers. He said, yep. And he moved her in because there he forgot that that was there. She didn't she didn't even need anything special. The numbers were there, she could see them. Michael Hingson 12:03 There's a television show here in the United States. That wasn't on last year. And I don't know whether it will return. It's called What will you What would you do? Have you heard of that? Yes, I have. Yeah. So it's a show where they create situations. And there is an actor who comes in and, and plays a part. And maybe there's more than one actor. And then the idea is to see how people around them react. And in the first year of the show, to deaf people went to a coffee shop. And this was all created by what would you do? And John can Jonas and also the Rochester is this too for the deaf. And so the the scenario was there was a guy behind the counter of barista who was an actor in this case. And there were there were two people who are deaf and one was applying for a job at the at the coffee place. And so they went in and they, this person went to the counter and said, I want to apply for a job. And of course, the whole idea was to put every roadblock in her way that he could. And so she said I want to apply for a job, but well, but you know, I'm not sure that you'd be a good fit here. Well, well, why not? Well, you can't hear and well, this is a kitchen job, right? Well, it is. And sometimes I need to give orders and I need you to be able to hear them well be you could write them down, but I don't have time to write them down. And this went on for a while. And there were some people who just ignored it and some people who paid attention. And finally, and this was kind of I think the interesting part of the segment, three people pulled the barista aside. They were HR people for a company. And what they said to him was, look, you're handling this all wrong, these people have more rights than anyone else. If it's not a fit, you just take the application, you don't argue and you're right, not a good fit on the application, and then you let them go. And that happens in one way or another all too often. And, of course they it showed up they didn't reveal those people's names. And there was there was another woman in the shop who really hit the roof over the whole thing. And of course John King Jonas came in and explained who he was and what was going on. And so it was addressed, but but the reality is that what most people don't understand is hiring persons with disabilities ought to be and making reasonable accommodations should be part of the cost of doing business. And it's just as much a part of the cost of doing business as somebody's paying for the electric bill. So there can be lights for all of you like dependent sighted people to be able to see in a building, or providing computer monitors or providing that fancy Do coffee machines so that people can go to the lunchroom and get coffee. providing reasonable accommodations should be just as much a part of the cost of doing businesses that, but we're not there yet. And that's unfortunate. Lisa Wilson 15:14 We are. I mean, we're getting there. I know in Canada, we have rules around that. So if you if your building is not, I'm not coming up with the right word, but if your building doesn't have say, a ramp and things like that, so it's not accessible, there's the word. So if your buildings not accessible, and you do a bunch of renovations, you are required now to make it accessible while you're renovating. There are some buildings still that, you know, aren't there, but we actually had, I'm loving the new generation, the generation that's coming up, they're just so so thoughtful. We had a school in our town build ramps for all the the downtown businesses that don't have ramps, and, and they just built wooden ramps, they're simple wooden ramps. And so that that made their buildings accessible. Michael Hingson 16:05 well made, it made the interesting building accessible, of course, yes, yeah, who knows about the doorways and who knows about counters and other things like that? And then, of course, who knows about whether, you know, other things were but but yeah, I hear what you're saying. Lisa Wilson 16:19 But it's, but it's a start. Right. So and there's a start? And where I see is that it came from the next generation? It was high school kids. Yeah. So So for me, I'm like, Okay, that's good. We're coming around. I think the I think there's a lot of education needed. And I think that's, that's the piece that needs to come as there's we there's are so there is also a requirement to accommodate. And the problem is how we get there, right? So it's, you have to get in the door. And that's the problem is when we can't get in the door, then then the the next issue comes up. Once someone's there, so say someone works for us, something happens, they go blind, we're required, then to make sure that their workplace is accessible. We can't just fire, it's not a thing. In some cases, in Canada, in some cases, that does happen, it's not they don't get fired, they get retrained, we have systems in Canada, that will retrain you for certain things. If the job really, you can't do that job anymore, because the reality where I worked, like I said, I was in working in manufacturing type places. So they were very dependent that you could see there was moving equipment, things like that. So was it would have been safe to have someone. But what happened is say they something happened and they had something come up, then we were required to accommodate them, which meant either move them around in the company, and at the last resort was they would be retrained to work, possibly somewhere else or possibly with us. Michael Hingson 17:52 So of course, the idea behind the idea behind moving equipment and so on not being safe is also still relative, there may very well be ways to address that issue, just like there were ways for the person at Tim Hortons to be able to, you know, and the problem is that sometimes none of us know the ways. So it doesn't mean that they're not there. And it doesn't mean that they are. But we need to be open. And I agree with you that our next generation is tending to be more open, at least while they're in high school and college. And then I guess we'll see what happens once they move beyond that. And that could be Lisa Wilson 18:33 louder about it, though, to be louder about it. They really do. I really, they they've done a lot of really good things. And they seem to be louder about it. So I do hope that they hold on to that. And I think because they are changing the adults mind. Great. So how do we change a society? One of the one of one of the big tricks we use is change the kids. Because then like when we wanted recycling, where it was it sold as much was sold to the kids. And then the kids came home and guilt their parents into Michael Hingson 19:07 recycling. Right. Yeah. Lisa Wilson 19:09 And so the parents because the kids are learning the parents are learning. Michael Hingson 19:13 Did this. Go ahead? Lisa Wilson 19:15 Oh, no, I was just gonna say so it's, it's starting. And then but you're right. I think that that imagination so. So like I said, anyone who's living with a disability, they're they're already more creative. The reality is because you have to be because because we built the world for the light. I love that term, the light dependent. The world is built for the light dependent. And, and we can't imagine the problem is we can imagine how does it work? How does it work then? Like I'm thinking about so when you said that, you know, maybe there were ways so I was starting to think about okay, so how did that how would I have? How would I have protected someone out on the shop floor when? When there's you know Like forklifts moving around quite a bit and things like that. And, and we had lots of protections. So there's probably some of the jobs maybe we needed to protect them getting to and from, because we couldn't put up barriers because it would get in the way of the forklift. But we could protect them getting to and from, like, have someone take them out to their job, but then we had so many protections, you're right, they could have done it. Michael Hingson 20:21 But the issue is, why do we, why do we need protections it's all about listening to. And yeah, the fact is that, that that people do work in manufacturing environments and forklift situations and so on. The other part about it is learning how those things work. And I know of a number of manufacturing facilities, where there are people who are blind, who are part of the, the everyday work, and forklifts drive around and don't run over people. It's all about listening to Yeah, it is true that most people can't imagine that unfortunately, in the case of light dependency, reasonable accommodation has been taken to the max. I mean, the reality is 160 years ago, or whenever it was, was done, Thomas Edison invented the electric light bulb, to give you guys light in what otherwise might have been dark situations. And now everyone has lights, but it doesn't change the fact that the disability of needing to have those lights is still there. And so you, you deal with being able to drive forklifts because you have lights in the building, and you have other lights on the forklift and so on. But that's still a reasonable accommodation, in one sense for a disability. And I and I've sometimes talk about that in a in a facetious way, but the reality is, it is true. And we need to learn to become more inclusive in some way. Yes, yeah, we do. Know what I was gonna gonna say earlier when you're trying to buy kids and change society by changing the children. The dates me but the old joke. Yeah, the problem is that the only ones who could ever run VCRs were kids, no adults could never figure out how to do this. That's true. So so there you go. So you know, maybe there is some things adults will never learn. So what did we do? We came up with different technology. We don't use VCRs anymore, but I don't know whether they're whether all the new technologies are all that much easier in some senses, but people figure them out. Yeah. Lisa Wilson 22:25 We all eventually figure it out. Yeah, one way or another. But yeah, I agree. I think I think some of it I just can't even imagine, right, we had dumb, we did have someone who was losing their hearing in where I was working. There's lots of really awesome tools. Now. I found the coolest headphones that so so he couldn't wear his the so we all work ear protection. So the rest of us wear ear protection so that we didn't lose our hearing. And so for him, he needed something. But as soon as we then protected his hearing, he went completely deaf. So that didn't help. Right. So now we're protecting him and making it worse. So we found these really neat headsets that instead of it being like something blocking inside your ear, it was a you know, something went over your head, and they had a microphone in it and the microphone in it would take away all of the other sound. And so I went out and try them, they unfortunately didn't end up working for him. They just didn't they couldn't make the the sound loud enough for him. So we figured out other things, we had some lights for him and things like that, where he was he was very, he was very well protected. So it wasn't, you know, he wasn't going to be in the way of, of, of anything of forklifts or anything like that, that he might not have heard the noise. Like the whole building itself was very loud. But I was like, there's so many things and until you are in the situation, you have to look it up. And that's why I say the problem is getting people in the door. Because if I never if that gentleman hadn't been losing his hearing, I I would never sent my nurse to do the research. Michael Hingson 24:01 Right along. How long ago was this? Oh, it Lisa Wilson 24:04 was I left that company in 2008. Michael Hingson 24:08 Okay, so but if Yeah, there are there are so many advances that are that are coming up their bone conduction headphones so that it completely bypasses the ear. And that may be some of what you were you were talking about. But and those have even gotten better. That fact is what what a number of people have discovered is that rather than having bone conduction headphones, and in fact I'm using them now it's they're much less visible, but they actually sit right in front of your ear. And it completely goes through the bone and doesn't even go into the ear at all. But what we also know is that you can even get better sound and better bone conduction by having something that sits behind the ear because then you're not going through so much of the bone, you're going through more of the soft tissue. And the audio from those kinds of technologies is incredible. And the reality is, in both cases, what it does is it bypasses what is usually the problem for a person who is deaf or hearing impaired they they bypass the ears and go straight into the the eardrum or pass the eardrum to the central part of the nerves for hearing. Lisa Wilson 25:26 So cool. And see, it's all there. We just like I said, unaware, just unaware, and it's until we learn, right? So like I said it now, I don't I've never had anyone who has tried to come and work there who had a disability like that, like it just it wasn't a thing. Because most people just, I don't know, it just didn't come up. And maybe because our whole town, it's a smaller town wasn't as adaptable. But I've Well, I don't know that that's the case we had, we had a physio who was blind to and he was fine. He's, he's able to go through the, you know, the town was okay for him. But yeah, I think what happens is, there's more supports in larger cities, and so that we don't see it as much in the smaller places. But we also Michael Hingson 26:13 oftentimes try to create more fixes than we need to. You know, we don't we don't need every traffic signal in a town to make a noise so that you know, when the light is changed, the reality is you can listen to the traffic. And unfortunately, sometimes people rely too much on the traffic signals. And so Oh, it's beeping, so it must be safe to go. No, it doesn't mean it is safe to go. It only means it's supposed to be your turn. You still have to listen to the traffic just as well, I would have to listen to the traffic, just as you would have to watch the traffic. Lisa Wilson 26:52 Yes. Yeah. And I think I don't think that's a thing for just people who have who are hard of hearing or can't see, I think that's a problem for drivers as well. You know, we don't pay attention, you don't look for everything. Michael Hingson 27:07 I think the time is coming when autonomous vehicles will basically take over and will take driving out of the hands of drivers, which may not be such a bad thing the way people drive today. Lisa Wilson 27:16 Yes, true. We had a friend of mine was hit by a car for exactly that reason that you're saying is is she was walking at when the thing said walk and someone had an opportunity to turn left and he turned left and didn't pay attention to the fact that she was walking. And that's exactly it an end for us. What I say is it's it's it's not lazy. It's that we're not used to it. There's not a ton of pedestrians in our downtown getting a little bit more so now but so we we don't think to do it. Whereas like I go downtown Toronto and I am on high alert the whole time I'm there because there's pedestrians, there's people driving, there's, you know, there's so many things happening that you're on high alert, whereas here, we sort of get complacent because there isn't that high traffic and people, Michael Hingson 28:02 which is a good thing. Yeah. The thing is in like where I live in Victorville drivers are becoming more and more aggressive every day, if you're not moving fast enough, even if you're driving, you're not going fast enough for them, they honk at you, they're just impatient. They're aggressive. And that leads to problems we are we are not what we used to call defensive drivers anymore, which is unfortunate because we weirs in such a hurry. We miss out on a lot of things anyway. But we also make life less safe for everyone when we do that. Lisa Wilson 28:35 Yeah. And I think well, I was hopeful that kind of people having to slow down a little bit in the last couple of years, because we weren't going as many places that it might, it might help some of that to keep people but I don't know that it has. Michael Hingson 28:50 Well, so how long did you stay in the HR world? Lisa Wilson 28:54 I think officially like I think it was 17 years. Michael Hingson 29:00 And then what caused you to switch. Lisa Wilson 29:02 So I had a couple of really good experiences, I worked for some really good companies. And then I once I took the management role, I sort of had a series of less than stellar companies to work for, we'll call it and the last one was the absolute worst for me. And it just got to a point I was only there three years. But I how I put it as I was a terrible hire for them. They should never have hired me. And the reality was I think they were desperate at the time they had been searching for someone for a while. And probably I should have known better too. So it's not all and then but when I was in the interview, they said things to me like we were discussing different things I'd done because I'd worked for lots of different companies by this point. And so I had some really good tips and tools and ways to organize things because I'd learned from all these different companies. And when I was in the interview, the woman kept saying, Oh, that's great. We need someone like he was ideas. We need to change some things. We need all those ideas. And then once I got there, what they would say to me Is assimilate, Lisa. So IE don't give us your ideas. We don't care about your ideas, just do what you're told. And that's not me. That's not who I am. And that's not what made me great at HR will get made me great at HR was that ability to go in and go, Okay, how do we fix this? And this isn't working, right, let's make it better. And they were just such a large organization that that wasn't what they were looking for. And it really took its toll on me. Really, initially, when I left, I was not a leadership coach, I walked away from HR completely on had nothing to do with businesses, it was just going to life coach, just just like coaching, which is not my passion. And it took me quite a while to come back from that note took about about three years. And then thankfully, I was paid really well. So thankfully, they they did a reorganization. And then that reorg i was i My position was let go, which I have never been more grateful for anything. It's not a normal reaction to a layoff. Michael Hingson 31:03 Right? Yeah. Well, what what does a life coach do? So? Well? How's that for an open ended question? Yeah. Lisa Wilson 31:16 So the reality is each, most of the time coaches will have a niche that they they go for, like, they want to work with people who are struggling with a particular thing. And it usually comes from our life, right? So something in our life that we've overcome, and we help others walk through the same thing, so that they don't have to necessarily walk through it alone. Many of people who are in coaching are part because they found a coach that helped them through something. And so now they're doing the same. And really, that's where mine came from, as well. One of the jobs I was working out as I was getting really frustrated, and I met a coach and I ended up going and getting some coaching and then taking her coaching course. So that's where this came from. And I always had the goal. So when I left that job, I always knew I was going to start a coaching company, I just My intention was always to be a leadership coach. So we working more with CEOs. And that was always my goal. But after having been there for three years, it just rocked my confidence so much that I stepped completely away from anything to do with HR. Michael Hingson 32:19 And then you eventually went back to what your your passion lunch, which was leadership coaching, Lisa Wilson 32:24 exactly I did. And I do some HR consulting as well. But what I see I focus more on the culture. And I have to be careful how I say that. Because when people hear that they think I talk about help people working with different cultures come together, right? But that's not the idea. Every company culture, yeah, every company has its own culture. And if you're not paying attention to what that is, the culture creates itself. And then it becomes a really difficult thing to change. Michael Hingson 32:50 Well along the way, then we haven't really referred to it, but you had an unexpected life change. And so why don't you tell us a little bit about that? Because I think that that will make that will make for interesting thought provoking discussions here. Lisa Wilson 33:07 Yes. So the after just after coming out of that job, so I don't know if this is part of the reason is the stress at that job was quite high. And I often had odd illnesses while I was working there. So just different things would come up. I'm not the type of person that gets like a flu and just lies down I might get like a skin rash, or something that actually comes from a virus because my body is tired, and I'm so stressed. So I had lots of those little things. And I got to a point a doctor had said to me, Look, if you can't, if you can't take like, can you take a vacation? And I said, Yes, I can actually I was looking at vacations as as I was sitting waiting to come in here and he said, Okay, he said, because if you can't, I'm I'm, I'm putting you off on sick leave. And so I did, I went away, but very shortly after working there, they discovered they had been watching they discovered a lump on my thyroid, and they've been watching it. Now, I need to clarify this right at the beginning is that women typically have lumps on our thyroid. If you're into the spiritual side, it's a heart chakra or it's your throat chakra. And so you know not to be using our voices is part of what comes that comes from this, but that's the sort of spiritual side of it. But women typically have them they can be cancerous, they can be non cancerous, they're just lumps on our thigh, right? They show up and they are not harmful. They grow really, really slowly. So even if they are cancerous, it takes them a really long time to grow. So I did have one they were watching. And six months after I left this place, they thought that that lump had grown for some reason from 2.4 centimeters to 4.2 centimeters and six months. And that's unheard of. They didn't understand why that was happening. They that that didn't make any sense for it to grow that quickly. Was was ridiculous. So they said to me, Look, we think we need to take it out. It's growing too fast, that's it's very bizarre, best thing to do is just take it out, it will harm you, you'll be fine, you'll come back to full, you know, you'll be fine. The rest of the other half will, will pick up, and it'll do what it needs to do and your body will be fine. So I have, I said, Okay, you can put me on the list. And I had a panic attack sometime shortly after that. And it was one of those moments where I just there was this voice in my head that said, do not have the surgery, don't have the surgery. And I thought, and I pushed it away. I went, No, Lisa, don't be ridiculous. You don't like it's he's a great doctor. He is a great doctor, the man that took care of me as a wonderful doctor. So I have nothing bad to say about him. Lisa Wilson 35:44 I just pushed it away. But I think I told my mom. And so we went and got a second opinion. And I went to the second opinion, the second time I didn't do what I needed to do was I had a disk with all of my scans on it. And I didn't give it to the second opinion doctor, he just felt my throat, he felt the lump. And he said, Look, there's a lump there, don't be afraid, it's not going to be a big deal. You know, go get the surgery. And I had that that disc and I didn't give it to him. I did have the surgery that took out half my thyroid, he the doctor is wonderful. He's he learns. So he made a mistake once where he got in and found out that a woman had was cancerous, because he can tell by looking he's done so many. And he needed to take the whole thyroid out. So he made us sign he made me sign before he went into the surgery that if he finds cancer on either on the other side that he can do take the whole thing out. So he's so he's that's why I say I have just really high thoughts to this doctor. So we did it was fine. No, I didn't need to take the other one out. When he took it out. He said it's fine. The lump wasn't cancerous. You're okay. You know, you'll heal, it'll be fine. I didn't though, for for years after I went from the person who did p90x and CrossFit, and mountain biking, and kayaking, and I could you know, spend a whole day running or doing whatever I've done, I've actually done a half marathon as well. Not my favorite thing. But I went from that person to a person who could do 10 minutes of exercise. And if I do any more, I burned myself out. And worse than that was when the doctor so right after the surgery, he said, you're good to go. It wasn't cancerous, you'll be okay. And that was the other piece I forgot to mention is they don't even even if it's cancerous, they don't even look at the, at your thyroid until it's at least four centimeters. And then they start to watch more closely. So anything under that they just leave because it's healthier for you to keep it there than it is to have it taken out. So he when I went back for the follow up after the surgery, he said to me, he sat and he had his his hands over his face. So he was kind of like all of his fingers were splayed at the top of his forehead and he had his hands on his knees, elbows on his knees, and was holding himself up. And he just and I thought why does he look like that? Like he looked distressed? I thought okay, why does he look like that? He told me it wasn't cancerous. Why? Why does he look like that. And the reason he looked like that is because it was a mistake. That lump had not grown. We think it was a typo. So they took out half my thyroid on a typo. And it was obviously very shocking and upsetting because I was also supposed to come back to full energy and I never did. So for quite some time I spoke someone else who had her phone had the full thing taken out. She said Lisa, it'll take you about a year. So don't don't push it for the first year, just accept that you're going to be a little less energy, but after a year, but I never came back. So now I can do. I walk my dog for 20 minutes in the morning, which I never considered walking exercise before now. That was just something you did to get from place A to place B. But now it's I fully that's like I can walk the dog and then do 10 minutes of some other form of exercise that includes like yoga or the or Pilates or something that's a little bit what I would refer to as easier when when you're doing p90x And CrossFit. I'm used to doing like pull ups and really big things like that. So doing Pilates and stuff was fairly easy for me or used to be. Now it's just does the same thing and burns me right out. I could so initially I could get through the workouts, but then I would spend the next two days on the couch because my my adrenals would be so Bert. Michael Hingson 39:36 There were not medications that you could take to kind of offset some of the lack of what the thyroid produces. Lisa Wilson 39:45 Yes, so there is something called Synthroid they we tried it twice so they put me on what they would normally start someone on, which I think is like point five, I can remember what the measurement is but they put me on whatever it was point five. And I What happened is it made me really hyper. And I realized about a month in, I was like, I was walking the dog. And I was like, I want to run, like my heart wanted me to run. And I started to run up the road. And then I was like, this isn't a good idea, I haven't run in a year, I shouldn't I need to be careful, I'm going to, like, I'm gonna hurt my muscles like, this isn't a good idea, right? You shouldn't just start from a sprint, that's not a good choice for your body. And, and then I became really agitated. So it wasn't a very nice person. I had a friend over one day, and she said something to me. And I snapped at her. And that's totally not my personality. I thought, okay, that's bizarre. And so I went off of it, I told him when it happened, and I went off of it. So then we left it for a month or so. And I tried it again, but now at a lower dose. So now 2.25. And all that happened is it took me two months to get there. So they my doctor didn't really want to put me on it. He said that my my thyroid numbers are fine. So according to Western medicine, I'm completely healthy. And it took me a really long time. Even I switched doctors after a while it took me a long time to convince the next doctor that there was a problem and get her to start sending me to different specialists to try and figure out what was going on. It took like two or three years actually to get her to pay attention. She just assumed which is a thing in in medical worlds that if a woman is tired, She's depressed. And so I was the first thing she said to me, are you depressed? And I said, Well, no, I didn't. I gave her the benefit of the doubt because she was a new doctor. I said, look, okay, maybe I am depressed. What would we do? I won't go on medication right away. That's not something I want to do. If I were depressed, what would we do? And she said, Well, cognitive behavioral therapy. I said, Okay, is that me sitting on the couch on those days that I can't move saying, It's okay. Your life is good. You're just tired. And she I said, repeating that to myself? She goes, Oh, yeah, that's exactly what that is. And I said, Okay, so I'm a life coach. So I know those two those tips. And she was like, Oh, okay. But even that she didn't, you know, she didn't move on. She didn't send me to any student look it up. She didn't send me anything. And I then But then what started to happen is, I have the propensity for high cholesterol and diabetes, both runs in my family, and I know this, I've known it for years, I don't believe that it's a something that's going to happen to you. You can fight it with how you live your life. So I had known this and I always thought it was my diet and exercise. But because the exercise was gone. I wasn't able to I was starting to have high a one a one C or H. I can't remember what it is. But anyway, the the blood sugar basically was my blood. I want to see how anyone see. Yeah. So my blood sugar was going up. And with the cholesterol numbers were starting to go up. And it was when she came to me with the with the cholesterol numbers. She said, you're just at the point where you need medication when you take medication. I said absolutely not. She said, Okay. And I said, Look, I've been telling you for years, I can't exercise. I can't do more than 10 minutes or a burnout. My cholesterol is going up because I can't exercise. And she said she was like, okay, and even that didn't get to her because I was annoyed with her. So then the next time I went in, I said to her look, I'm gonna give you an example of what's going on in my life. My grandmother at the time, had dementia and lived close to me. My parents were about an hour away. She fell and broke her hip and was in the hospital. So my parents called and said, Can you go to the hospital? I said, Absolutely. So I went straight to the hospital. My dad got in the car. He met with me about two hours later. So my 77 year old father, and I was in my early 40s. Drove the hour we both stayed in the hospital till midnight. At that time, they decided to keep my grandmother so we both came home. I made up a bed who got to bed about one in the morning. He got up the next morning at seven I got up with him. He had breakfast, did what he needed. And he went back to the hospital to be with my grandmother. I had worked that day. But I thankfully didn't have any clients till the afternoon because he got up. He went to take care of my grandmother got her settled and then drove home. I on the other hand, couldn't handle the day and went back to bed. So that and I said, you know when my 75 year old father can handle less sleep than I can. There's a problem. And that was when she finally went Oh, and she heard me. But it took years Michael Hingson 44:30 who was awful. And and then what happened. Lisa Wilson 44:33 So she did start sending me to different specialists. But still according to Western medicine, I am completely healthy. There are no numbers that are off there are no as far as they're concerned. I've seen several different specialists that don't have any thyroid illnesses. So they've checked different things. They've checked for fibromyalgia, they've checked for all of these different things and I don't meet any of them. So as according to Western medicine, I'm completely healthy. So what? So what I started to do was go off of Western medicine. And I've been seeing naturopaths actually, the the first big step for me was, I eventually did get to a point where I actually was starting to get depressed. Depression, for me doesn't look like what people pictured in depression, which is like you're sitting in the bed and you can't move and, and that kind of things. That's not what it looks like for me. For me, depression looks like a overwhelm, and I get angry faster. So I have very little patience. And I'm still getting up and doing what I need to do, because I'm so action oriented and so driven, that I'm still getting up and doing what I need to do. But I'm not a very kind person in that. I'm just grumpy and overwhelmed and tired. And I just got to a point where when I recognized it was I the word the thought went through my head that I just wanted to die at this point, I'm done, I'm done fighting this, I can't get any help I need. And my mom told me about a woman that some friends of ours had been working with, and she's what they call a medical intuitive. And so you just go on a call with her, and she sort of reads what's going on with you. And so she gave me a couple of things. One was that my body was full of Candida, we all have Candida, but if you get an overgrowth, you you'll get pains in your muscles and different things. So that was the first one. So she she suggested a cleanse to clean that up. And then a diet a big diet change. And so she that was my first step. And then after doing the cleanse, I just felt so much better. I literally had pain in all over my body all the time. And I thought it was because I couldn't do exercise anymore where I couldn't stretch and couldn't do that stuff. But it really it was this overgrowth of Candida. Michael Hingson 46:40 So yeah, go ahead. What did you do? Lisa Wilson 46:44 So that was the first step was, was really big change in my diet. I also started then seeing naturopaths, who helped me through a few other things. So what how the naturopath there's no really tests for this. But what they describe is that my adrenals burn out really quickly. So I use adrenaline when I was so when I was tired, my body was using adrenaline to push me forward, and then my adrenaline burns out. And I've got no natural energy to keep going. We don't normally use our adrenaline to keep going. But that's what I was doing every day just to be able to move through the day. And so when I was doing that, that heavy exercising, that's what was happening is I was just I my body would shoot a whole pile that pile of adrenaline in my system. And then it had nothing left for two days. So I've learned that and I've sort of accepted now that I won't ever be able to do the p90x or CrossFit or any of those things anymore. I do my little 10 minute workouts, when I have the energy for it. If I don't have the energy for it, I walked the dog and I stopped. And that's the end of the exercise of just sort of had to accept a new way. And then I have to be prepared if I'm doing anything. So for example, It's summer now I like to go kayaking. So I'll go kayaking for maybe a half hour but then I have to recognize that then the following day. I shouldn't have anything big plant Michael Hingson 48:02 or get a kayak with a motor. Yeah. Lisa Wilson 48:06 Yeah, it's not it's not really the same but yes. Yeah. Michael Hingson 48:10 Just just an alternative you know? Or, or just save money and take a big cruise. Lisa Wilson 48:18 Yes, that too. But we do need some exercise. Regardless, I need some kind of exercise. Yeah. Michael Hingson 48:26 But are you are you able to do things for any longer period of time are there things from Eastern medicine, other kinds of alternatives that helped me be bring back some of that stamina or nothing that you've discovered yet. Lisa Wilson 48:41 So the one thing that did get better is when I when I do the cleanse, and then I eat clean for a long time and so clean, I wanted to just be clear that clean looks different for everyone. For me, it means something savory instead of sweet for breakfast. And it doesn't matter if I'm using like non sugary breakfast, like even just an apple. If I have too much sugar in the morning, I'll crave it all day. Even a carb so if I'm I pretty close to keto. It's, I say close but I don't some of the things I don't like in keto or how much fat and that is in there. So I'm I'm basically I'm a meat and veg person now. Even breakfast like breakfast is all fry up a bunch of vegetables and whatever meat we eat that night kind of thing. Or the night before whatever's whatever's available or just through some ground beef in it if we don't have anything reasonable. So that's helpful for me if and then staying off sugar and carbs. My body can handle them, but it will it will send me again into a slump. So really learn what to Michael Hingson 49:44 eat or stay away from it. So your life your life has changed significantly. How long ago was the surgery? Lisa Wilson 49:53 So in 2014, it was it was literally the year I got laid off and was trying to start my business I started to have no energy, maybe the worst possible time to have no energy. So 2014 It's almost been 10 years. It's been. It's been a long, 10 years. And I'm recognizing recently, how much I've changed in it. Because when it was first happening, I like I was fighting it, right. I just kept trying, I was like, No, I can build back up to this exercise. So I would do 10 minutes, and the next week, I would do 20. And then I would, you know, try and build up, and then I would fall apart again. So no, it never worked. And, and that was frustrating. For me, for a very driven person who's very action oriented, it was really, really frustrating. So my mental health wasn't good. And the state of my mind wasn't good, I'll say. So there was just a chi was like, literally in a constant battle with my own body. And how I say I've come around now is that haven't been as careful recently, we were doing some remodeling in the house. So we weren't planning meals as well and things. And just, you know, life took over. And so I started eating things that I probably shouldn't be eating, but they were quick, and they were easy. So I started to see the problems come around again. And there were so many like, it would take me hours to tell you all the things, but some of the things were like pain in my body from for no reason. I had trouble sleeping, I had a really hard time sleeping. And on those nights, and it would be that my adrenaline kicked in at the wrong time. So so I'd be tired all afternoon. And then when it's time to go to bed at you know, 910 o'clock, the adrenaline would kick back in. So, so then I'd be wide awake. And when in those moments, I was angry, because I was stressing about the following day, how am I gonna run a business if I can get to sleep at night, and you know, I would stress through it. And over the last little while where I watched my watch some of this come back where I'm lying in bed and I can't sleep. It's been maybe the last two or three years where that'll happen again, sometimes when I'm just you know, life happens, and I'm just not paying attention as well, or I go somewhere that you don't have as much control over food, you know, you're eating whatever is available to you. And I discovered now that instead of, you know, freaking out or, or getting upset or stressing about what's going to happen, the next day is my mind just goes okay, go read a book. And I'll get up and I'll go read a book, I've now bought an e reader. So you don't actually have to get out of bed and turn on the light, I can just use the e reader. So I'm not waking up my boyfriend. But I just read the book until I actually want to sleep. And then I sleep when I sleep. And I I never booked my days so full that I can't have a nap in the middle of the day or have a rest somewhere in the middle of the day. So I just have allowed that to happen. And then if I need a nap, I take a nap. So what Michael Hingson 52:50 are you doing now for work? Lisa Wilson 52:52 So I work, I work for myself. I work I do the life coaching or not the life coaching, the leadership coaching, and I work from home. So that's why I say I've never booked my days so much that I have like one thing after another, there's always at least a half an hour between things. So worst case, I can have a 10 minute nap. And that helps. It's partly planning in my life. But it's also just where my mindset is gone. So that even if I knew I had that time the following day. Previously, I was so angry that my body wasn't doing what it was supposed to do that I couldn't get through it. And now I just go, Oh, well can't sleep Mazal read my book. Michael Hingson 53:30 So you progressed a lot, you certainly could have become very bitter over all this that have happened to you. And you don't sound like you're a very bitter person. Lisa Wilson 53:39 No, I'm talking. I think. I think there have been times I mean, I work lots with us, you know, the like you said the Eastern medicine and things. So I've done can't think of what it's called the little needles in it. The names that. Yeah, I've done acupuncture, and I do a lot of meditating. And I do lots of things like that. And I spoke to a woman one time who does a modality we'll call them where she works through things that are going on in your body. And basically our bodies Hold on, because we're not very good at dealing with our emotions, our bodies will hold emotions. And so her thing was, it was very an interesting process. It was just on Zoom, and she works through with me. And the she doesn't know me. She doesn't know my story. She said around this time, and she gave me the age that I had the surgery sent around this age in your life. You have horror stuck in your body. That's like horror. She said yeah. And I was like, that makes sense. I mean, someone telling you they took out a piece of your body on a on a typo. That's horrifying, really is. And so I've done lots of work with those kinds of things as well. But I also hold the belief that really, we can work through anything that we Anything that the that the world hands us, right? Like we can we can work it through, we can figure it out. But but the, the grief that comes with that, in some cases is is worse than what we realize. So the grief for me was it took me that long to grieve, who I used to be and come into acceptance of, okay, I'm not the p90x person anymore. That's not who I am. But letting go of like, it was a huge part of my personality. I'm strong. I'm strong, I'm strong in a lot of ways. And I'm strong physically it was. So it was such an important part of how I defined myself that I that that time when I was angry and frustrated, and not, you know, angry with the fact that my body wouldn't do what it was doing it. That's grief. That was grief, I wasn't moving through the Michael Hingson 55:50 grief. And now you have, yeah, Lisa Wilson 55:53 I have come to accept it, it's still there are moments when it frustrates me or I get angry with myself because I haven't paid close enough attention. And I've gone back to the, you know, the carbs and the things that that don't make me feel good. But they're, they're more fleeting moments now than the overarching, you know, kind of life view all the time. Michael Hingson 56:12 And what do you do as a leadership coach, so now you're doing that as work and you obviously get hired by companies and teams and people and so on? Lisa Wilson 56:23 I do. So the premise that I started with this is, and strangely, I had hoped that it would have gotten better now, and I think it has in some companies, but not all, what we do is in a company, we take the best, whatever. So if it's counselors, we take the best counselor, and we make them the executive director, if it's, you know, mechanics, we take the best mechanics, we make them the lead hand, and then the supervisor and then the manager. So whatever the role is, we just take the best of that, and we put them into the leadership role. And that's not really the best way to choose it. Just because they're really good at the role does not mean they'll be able to come up with the skills to be a leader, the skills to be a leader, very different. And so the reason I do what I do is that while some companies are good at sending you on training, what happens when you go on training, and I have tons of examples of this, there's behind me, I have just binders and binders. And that's like the cold version of all the training I've done. But what a company will do is they'll say, Okay, we're gonna send you to leadership training. But that leadership training is four days on one aspect of leadership. And so you, you go, and you go away for four days. And then you come back and your email is full, and everything is full, and you don't have time to integrate the learning. So it's there, but you like to come, you come back, and you put the binder for the shelf and see you later. So So I started, I have a course that I created that goes over, I generally do it over eight weeks, so that people have the time to integrate it. So we meet for an hour a week. And that's it. We I teach a lesson, they go practice it, and then we coach on it. And then when I'm working with leaders, it's more about okay, what is it that you need right now, we'll work through what that is. And then we'll and then you can go and basically practice it we'll work through because we like I said, we just throw leaders into the role, and they might get the training eventually. But it's slowly but surely, and they get it and the binder goes straight up on the shelf, because they don't have time to integrate it. Michael Hingson 58:23 And sometimes, and sometimes we're lucky and the people we throw into those roles can do it because they're very intelligent people. But all too often they can't, because they don't have the training. And it's not really their style. Lisa Wilson 58:40 And its end it is our goal. And I recognize this too, because I was there in the HR roles, we think, Okay, we're gonna put that person in, but it's okay, it's good. They've got Lisa, she's in the HR managers role, she can check in on them. But then life hits the fan, and I don't have time as the HR manager to go and support that person, nor does their manager right. Like they want the the heart is there to do it. They just they can't, Michael Hingson 59:04 which is why what you do is so important today. Lisa Wilson 59:07 Yeah, yeah. So I can step in from the outside. I'm that person that's there. You know, I'm not the the HR manager who's trying to to, you know, balance everything else that's going on in the company and coach this person, I come in from the outside, when work with the leader. And hopefully, like the goal is is that we then fast track that right? So instead of going to six or seven training courses, though, I still say go to the training courses and get a more in depth but it's now okay, what are you dealing with today? And how are we handling that and then working on giving them the foundations that they need so that when the next problem comes up, they're ready to handle that one too, or they at least know where to pull to make the decision. 59:50 If people want to learn more about you and reach out to you how can they do that? Lisa Wilson 59:56 Probably best way is my website. It's LMW. So Just my initials Lisa May Wilson coaching.ca. 1:00:04 So LMW coaching.ca, you haven't even had a chance to talk about the fact that you're, you're in three books and you're writing your own book now? Lisa Wilson 1:00:13 Yes, I am. Yeah. So the course I just briefly mentioned that where I take people through eight weeks, I was speaking to I was wanting to write a book, but I have a much grander idea for a book and I was speaking to and a publisher, and she said, Don't start with the big book. She said, start with something, you know, well, and so what I've done is I'm going to write a book based on the course that I offer. So I'm taking some of the, the lessons and that I've learned as well as my clients have learned through doing the the course and, and putting the teachings in the book, as well as some of the lessons that they learned. 1:00:49 Good idea. Start with what you know, and you'll find that you probably know a lot more than than you thought, and you can get a book out of it. Lisa Wilson 1:00:57 Yeah, yeah. And, you know, when she she had a little weekend thing where she helped us get it all mapped out. And I was like, well, it's mapped out because of the course and, and we've sectioned it off. And and it's quite exciting. Actually, it was not something I never thought I'd be and I'm pretty sure that my high school English teacher is rolling over in his grave. The kid who couldn't who could he I always had so many issues. The nice thing, though, is somebody else corrects that for me. 1:01:27 Well, there you go. It's good to have an editor. Yes, exactly. It has been a joy to have you on unstoppable mindset. And we want to keep up as you're working on the book and maybe do another session and talk more about leadership, coaching and so on. But again, people can reach out to you at LM W coaching.ca. And I hope they will I think that there's a lot that you have to offer. I think that'll be an interesting part of the book as you go forward as well. Lisa Wilson 1:01:56 Yeah, yes. Thank you so much for this. This was really a lot of fun. This has been so many topics. Yeah, 1:02:03 yeah. And that's what makes us such a fun thing to do is you never never know where you're going to go and where it's going to lead. Yeah. Yes. Well, I hope people enjoyed this and that you will reach out to me as well. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Feel free to email me at Michaelhi at accessibe.com. That's M I C H A E L H I at A C C E S S I B E.com. Or you can go to our podcast page, which is Michael hingson.com/podcast. Michael Hingson is M I C H A E L H I N G S O N . So I hope that you will give us a five star rating that you found this insightful and interesting. And that's the best that we can ever ask for on something that we do here on unstoppable mindset. So, hope you're having a good day, as I said at the beginning and that this made your day a little bit better. And Lisa once again, thank you very much for being here with us today. Lisa Wilson 1:02:59 No problem. Thanks so much for having me. Michael Hingson 1:03:04 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.
