Episode 318 – Unstoppable Retired Army Officer with Rob Richard

I learned from our guest this time that only about %1 of Americans serve in the military. For most of us, our understanding of the military and military life comes from what we see in the movies, watch on television and sometimes from what we read in books. Our guest today, Rob Richard, has served in the U.S. army for over 20 years and is now about to be fully retired from the life that he has come to know. Rob’s upbringing was in a military family. I asked him if all that he had learned and seen growing up prepared him for a life in the military. His somewhat surprising answer was “no”.

We spend much of this episode learning from Rob what his life was like. We get a glimpse into a military world that is significantly different than what we see in the movies and elsewhere. Rob offers us many great insights and helps us see a side of leadership that we all could learn from.

Rob has visited 31 countries both for pleasure and work. What I like most about my time with Rob today is how he has used his military time to learn and develop an understanding of others much less himself. I think you will find Rob’s observations poignant and useful in many ways.

About the Guest:

Rob Richard is a retired Army officer and a native of Southern Maryland. With 20 years of military leadership experience, he has served two combat tours in Iraq during the mid-2000s at the height of the war and several tours in Korea and Germany. Rob spent over six years as a Logistics officer in various Special Operations Units and 14 years in Conventional forces, gaining invaluable experience in both specialized and general military operations. His military experiences range from tragic and harrowing events to comedic tales of misadventure as he navigated his career through the bureaucracy of the American war machine. Rob’s career has taken him around the globe, visiting over 31 countries for both work and leisure. He holds a Master’s degree in Leadership and Management from Webster University and a Bachelor’s degree in Communications from Towson University and completed the ROTC program through Loyola University of Baltimore. He is a dedicated husband and father of two. An alumnus of The Honor Foundation, Rob has successfully transitioned his elite military service to the private sector. The Honor Foundation serves as the premier career transition program for U.S. Special Operations Forces, helping to create the next generation of corporate and community leaders.

Ways to connect with Rob:

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-j-richard

About the Host:

Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.

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Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hi everyone. I am Mike Hingson, your host here on unstoppable mindset, and we're going to have, I think, a lot of fun, as we usually do, and we love to anyway, I tell all of my guests who come on the podcast that the only rule that we have for unstoppable mindset, and it's a hard and fast rule is you got to have fun, so it's important to do that. Our guest today is Rob Richard. Rob has been in the military for these the last 20 years, and he is retiring, so I'm anxious to hear all about that, and any stories and other things that he wants to tell. But he's he's an intriguing individual. It's been fun chatting with him and preparing for this. So Rob, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Rob Richard ** 02:08 Thanks, Michael. It's, uh, it's honor to be here. You know, last night I told my son, um, a little bit about your backstory, and then I was coming on here, and he was like, Oh, that's such an honor to talk to him. And he said, wow, they picked you, dad, really? And I was like, I was like, I guess, I guess he wants to speak with me. So it's an honor talking to you, and I appreciate your backstory. And my son, you know, learning about history in America over the past, you know, 20 years or so, being nine, he was very, you know, thought it was very honor for me to speak with you today. And I agree. I concur. So thank you very much for having   Michael Hingson ** 02:36 me. Well, I don't know, as a matter so much a matter of picking my belief is that everyone has a story to tell, and I believe that we're all more unstoppable than we think we are. And the problem is that we grow up mostly not really learning to have as much in the way of self confidence, and I mean that in a positive way, as opposed to just an ego, but self confidence and self respect as we should have, and all too often, were were encouraged not to really think as strongly about our capabilities and ourselves as we should. So my goal with unstoppable mindset has always been to give people an opportunity to come on and tell their story and help all of us realize that we're more unstoppable than we think we are. And I think that's really pretty important to do. So I Well, one of these days we we have to interview your son, and that ought to be fine. He's   Rob Richard ** 03:36 going to achieve great things. He's more kids, so it takes after his mom. So Well, there   Michael Hingson ** 03:41 you go. Well, I suspect that you have something to do with it too, sure. Well, tell us a little bit kind of about the early Rob growing up and all that sort of stuff.   Rob Richard ** 03:51 So I come from a military family. My father was in the army, and he's from New Jersey originally, but my maternal family was based out of Baltimore. My grandfather, paternal grandfather, was also in the military. I spent most of my formative years in Southern Maryland, in Charles County, Maryland, which is a distinctly unique place. It's about, you know, 45 to 50 minutes south of DC. So there's a bit of this sort of rural kind of where the south starts right the Chesapeake Bay and the lower Potomac River, a culture of nefarious characters and great fun growing up there. But I was close enough to DC to be around that that sort of government culture quite a bit. Also had a few formative years in Alabama and Alaska as well, moving around so that shaped a lot of who I was living in the South in the in the 80s and early 90s. And then, of course, you know, I went to college in Baltimore, very closely connected to that city, based on my maternal family's connection. There huge oils fan. I love the city of Baltimore. Brother was a police officer there for a while. So I'm a Maryland guy through and through. I'm from there. Very proud of it. I went to college at Towson University in Baltimore, Maryland. Ah. Where I did the ROTC program through Loyola College, and that's pretty much the gist of me. I think that growing up where I did around the folks that I did, the interesting characters, the type of youth that I had a little bit wild and and sort of free for all that sort of Gen Xenu youth, of just kind of being let, let go to my own devices kind of help shape who I am and help shape my character greatly. So that's pretty much my early start in life.   Michael Hingson ** 05:26 So there was kind of no doubt that you were going to go into the military. Probably family expected it, and you grew up expecting it, I guess.   Rob Richard ** 05:36 Well, you know, I to be honest, I never thought much about the military until I was going to go away to college, right? And so my dad was like, hey, you know, the ROTC program is a great way to give yourself an opportunity right out of college, and they pay for everything. So Truth in Lending, I probably joined the army more for financial reasons out of the gate than, you know, family patriotic reasons. They're certainly part of that. And obviously, when I was in ROTC, the second year, 911 obviously happened. And so I knew that my future was kind of written for me, with a lot of strife going forward as a military guy. So I knew probably around 2021, that's kind of what I wanted to do. But it wasn't always that way. There was a lot of other things I wanted to do growing up, and it just kind of, for whatever reason, that was the shining light that kind of, you know, directed me towards, you know, serving. So I ended up doing that for 20 years, and here I am now. So   Michael Hingson ** 06:30 Well, there you go. Well, on the other hand, if there were other things that you wanted to do, did you get to do any of them in the military? Did the military give you up an environment where you were able to stretch and grow and maybe do some things that that you wanted to do, or maybe that you didn't even think you were ever going to do.   Rob Richard ** 06:48 Yes, I think, you know, one of the great things that that the military offered me was a chance to, I love getting in front of audiences, and I love to tell a story, and I love to tell and, you know, and tell a joke, and tell the things, and do these sort of things. So as a leader, you have to develop a great sense of communication, a great sense to relate to people who come from different backgrounds and and, you know, different places than yourself. And I think the military, being a leader in the military, in particular, you know, the branch of service that I served in the Army, as a logistician, I got a chance to really work with a lot of different types of folks and a lot of different groups of people. And it let me kind of see just all walks of life. And then I kind of mentioned we sent our pre question was, I've been to 31 countries for fun, you know, not just for work. I met my wife in Germany. She's was an American soldier as well. I've got a chance to see the world. The world. The military gave me that privilege. They gave me that opportunity that a lot of people just don't get, you know, I've gotten to see all kinds of things and go out and see the world. So I was very fortunate. And so I guess meeting new and interesting people, seeing the world leading young men and women in combat, is very important to me. It's something that I, you know, never really thought I would have a chance to do growing up, and there's, there's no war now, there was one. So, yeah, I got a chance to do, do these things for many years over so I'm very thankful to the military for that,   Michael Hingson ** 08:11 just the military, and this is just just popped into to my head. So it's just a curiosity, does the military overall tend to evolve as society evolves. I mean, it's not a stagnant kind of a thing. I would assume. I   Rob Richard ** 08:27 think it's a little bit ahead of the game, but I don't necessarily think they're ahead of the game, because it's necessarily the righteous thing to do, but it's almost a business decision, meaning so they desegregated units before most of America, you know, in our general populace was desegregated, but that was more of a decision because they they needed to have people work together, right? Because they had wars and to fight and and things to do. So I think the military is often ahead of the curve when it comes to, you know, desegregation, when it comes to, you know, moving people forward that don't have the backgrounds that are necessarily totally accepted by society at the time. So I think they're a little ahead of the head of the game when it comes to to those sort of things. So I think they generally keep pace with society, yes, if not a little bit ahead.   Michael Hingson ** 09:11 I'll tell you why I asked. It just was something I was thinking about as you were talking. I grew up in the Vietnam era, and for what that was worth on all sides. But during that time, they instituted and had the draft and they even developed a lottery system to decide who was going to go first. And my lottery number was fairly low, but when I turned 18, I fairly quickly got a letter saying you are classified one, a which was the classification where you could be drafted into the military. And I knew that that wasn't going to last being blind, and that they would figure that out, and they did, but I've always thought for me and. And others, they missed it. Why is it that a blind person couldn't find opportunities to serve in the military? It doesn't necessarily mean that we have to be in in the middle of a war zone. There are certainly other aspects of working in the military that a blind person could do, and yet the military kind of never really took advantage of that. Now there are a few people who were blinded in in wartime or because of one thing or another with terrorists, and so they're in the military. They started in the military and then they continued. But it still is true that you don't find real opportunities for blind people to serve in any aspect of the military. And I had a company that I formed back in 1985 and one of the main people who helped me was a retired colonel from the Marines, and he even said there is no reason why there there aren't opportunities available for people who are blind and think tanks and doing other kinds of things that are outside the regular war zone. So it's kind of fascinating, but I think it's an interesting and relevant thing to think about that clearly there are opportunities that ought to be available. Does that make sense?   Rob Richard ** 11:23 It does. I agree. I think one, the one thing about being a soldier at any level is there needs to be a commonality and a standard of that people can do a baseline thing, right? So there's physical fitness assessments, there's things that people need to do based on, you know, certain levels of training, whether it's shooting or going out and doing all these things, that there needs to be a baseline where everyone's kind of even So certain things that I worked in recruiting, uh, ironically enough, for two years, and certain things that are just qualifiers take away from the universal, uh, set that people need a universal set of skills, that people need to be a soldier in general. So there's avenues and different things that you can do with a disability or with things that are would mitigate you from serving in the front lines. But a little bit of what we'll talk about is in these previous wars, not everybody that was necessarily considered a frontline soldier, you know, was, was certainly not negated from from facing combat. And we can, we can talk about that, expound that a little bit, but I think that every person needs to have a basic set of skills. And there are certain things that, if you are blind or if you do have a disability that would, you know, take away from your your ability to do things that are a standard set of things, like, even as a senior officer or a senior non commissioned officer, you still have to take a certain physical fitness test, you still have to, you know, go out and shoot your weapon. You still have to do things that require sight, that require a certain level of hearing. Once you take away from that commonality that everyone has, now you're looking at someone who's not brought into the field and accepted as a soldier of commonality. Does that does that make sense? Or   Michael Hingson ** 12:59 you make an assumption, though, that isn't necessarily so. For example, there are a number of blind people who do shoot their hunters and so on. And so the issue is you have to separate out the skill from how you exhibit the skills. So, for example, right, shooting at a target, if there is a, if there is an auditory cue that allows me to aim at the target, can I learn to shoot at a target and and likewise, yeah, but I hear what you're saying, but I think at the same time, the reality is that that there are, there are certainly options, and what we really need to do is not leave out intelligent minds that might very well be able to contribute to what we do. And that's kind of what prompted the question,   Rob Richard ** 13:58 Oh, I agree, too. And I think that when you see the recruiting crisis that in particularly the army is facing, there needs to be avenues that bring other folks in who might not have the traditional physical skill set that other soldiers have, and allow them to serve. I agree with that, and that's something, I think, especially modern technology, that could be something to be brought into the fold in the future, to be looked at. But I do think, for like, I worked in Special Operations for, you know, for several years, you know, as paratrooper these sort of things. There are certain things that you must have this physical acumen and things that you must be able to do in order to accomplish those tasks in those schools. And, you know, the different training assessments that you have. So if there's a separate place that people can go and have those technologies available to mitigate anything that perhaps their, you know, disability might stop them from doing, I think that's certainly something to consider and something to look at going forward. So that's a great point. Like, I appreciate you bringing that up. I never looked at it that way, to be honest. So I always thought about this linear way of looking at. That you have to have these certain physical attributes to serve. But that's great. I that's a good way to look at it. So it's   Michael Hingson ** 15:06 well and I think, I think it's important to look at what attributes are are necessary to have, but But I also think that a lot of times what we can discover is that exhibiting those attributes may not be the same for one person as opposed to another, but the point is, we can still exhibit the attributes. So it's an interesting thing to, you know, to explore. Great. So tell me about the you know, and I realize that you're speaking for you and your observations and so on. But tell me a little bit about the crisis. You mentioned that, and I read it elsewhere. Tell me a little bit more about the crisis that we're really exhibiting today.   Rob Richard ** 15:46 So I worked in the Dallas, United States Army recruiting Dallas for two years. I was executive officer there, and I was also a time operations officer. And so I got to see the big picture of how the army does recruiting. And even then, in the height of the war, when the what they call the numbers was up and recruiting was was pretty good, still, they struggled to to link up the kind of bridge where they call it military civilian gap, right? So there's a couple different things I think that we need to take into consideration here. Number one, I think about only 1% of the nation serves right? And a large percentage of those folks are like myself. There they are legacy people, people who have a connection to the military. So I think the first thing to do is you have to bridge that military and civilian gap, and you have to look at why aren't people joining the military, right? And I'll be honest with you, the the army itself is terrible at branding in comparison to, say, the Marine Corps, right? Things like uniform and commonality of identity, the Marines do that way better, I think, than the army does. Right? As far as like, we have this certain set of things that we go with are always kind of changing their motto and go in different directions. But in general, there's also a population of people, because we just hit on it. Now you talk about, you know, having something that's going to stop you from serving. There are a large number of people who just don't meet the criteria. It's actually harder to get into the United States Army than it is to go to a four year university. So you're talking about physical fitness requirements. You're talking about legalities. You know, people getting in trouble with the law that disqualifies them from service, prior drug use, things like that, things that are looking at packing away and taking away for waivers. But the number one biggest thing is, I just think society societal differences on how civilian people and the military are connected. I think people just have a general misunderstanding of what the military is. They have a general misunderstanding of what it is to serve. And I just don't think that in our in our current society, that enough people are willing to step up and do it because life is too comfortable, and that's my personal opinion. That's not necessarily, you know, the Army's opinion. That's my opinion. Do you   Michael Hingson ** 17:51 think that it also has to do with how the military is portrayed, like in movies and TV shows and so on? Does that enter into it at all? Yes, I think, you know, we think so, and that's why I asked, I think   Rob Richard ** 18:04 so. And I like to get your take on what it is that when you say that, is it the is it a negative portrayal? Is a good portrayal. If you look at how certain wars are portrayed, right, you take it away. World War Two was portrayed versus, say, Vietnam, right? They're not portrayed totally different ways, right? You look at the modern war, and often veterans are painted this picture of a tragic experience, a tragic a tragedy, right? There's often this experience that is okay. This is a person that had a tragic thing happened to them. The war is something that was they went through and now they have this ailment, or whatever it is. It's often framed as that, but it's more complex than that. Yeah, a service is more complex than that. And I think that another thing is people don't understand that most military folks are middle class by the time they hit a certain age, right? So by the time you are excuse, by the time they hit a certain rank or time in service, they have middle class, you know, houses they live in a certain way of of a certain lifestyle that the army and the military in general affords to them. And I don't think people understand the financial and monetary benefit that you get for from the military. I don't think that's clearly articulated as a as a form of, hey, this is something I want my kid to do. You know, there's a lot of this, not in my backyard, type, but hey, that's great. Thank you for your service. But I don't want to serve, right? There's a lot of that that goes around in American society, I think. And I don't know if that resonates with you or if you agree, or Yeah, I   Michael Hingson ** 19:23 do understand that. I certainly don't disagree. I think that there is a lot of merit to that. What, what strikes me, though, is that there is a great misunderstanding. You know, if you watch some of the TV shows that are on when they talk about the military, it's, it's kind of a romanticized sort of thing, but the the and the the tragedy of veterans and so on, certainly there, there's a lot of that is focused on that at the same time when. We, when we go back and look at it, what, what caused that tragedy? What did? What did we not do as a society, to say, Bring a veteran home and be able to completely integrate them back into or bring them fully into society? And that's something where I think we as a as a society, do miss the point that where is much to I don't I want to use the word blame, but be responsible for integrating people back in because clearly, one of the things that I think is true about the military, and I don't think it's a bad thing, is that it is a particular kind of lifestyle. It's a very regimented lifestyle, and that's okay. But now, when you bring people, say, who have been to war and who have seen things back into society, there are, there is a lot more that we probably really ought to do to make sure that we're helping people get back into into the world that we're most of us are used to, and the fact that we don't understand what the world was that they were in, sort of contributes to us not really knowing how to bring them back into it.   Rob Richard ** 21:16 I agree. I agree. I think one of the things about special operations, where I worked for the past seven years, is they do a really good job of helping veterans, like, transition out of the military, whether they've had four or five years, or whether they've had, you know, 20 years, like myself, they have great programs. I told you. I completed the Honor Foundation, which was, you know, did a great service for me, helping me trans. Help Me transfer into civilian life and help me prepare for not in the corporate world, but just life in general. I think the military is getting better at that. I certainly think that our modern day era veterans were treated far better than, say, Vietnam veterans who came home. Yeah, you know, I really do believe that. I know my grandfather was a Vietnam vet, and I know there were times where, you know, he couldn't wear his uniform anywhere, or there's just people weren't treated with the same level of respect that I was. I always felt that when I came home, right, not necessarily the integration piece, but the fact that, you know, being a veteran, I always felt that I was thanked, or at least it's somewhat some way, even though it might seem patronizing that I was at the very least welcomed home and welcomed back and people appreciated, you know, whether they've experienced it or not, appreciate what I had been through, and we're very grateful for the most part, as to where in Vietnam, they certainly weren't. I think we've gotten better as a society about that. But where does that take you in, in the real and Reality of Things, right? Is it? Is it better veterans care, better mental health awareness, you know, things that I think they're working on? I certainly don't think we do a great job, in general, providing mental health for soldiers outside of special operations, right outside of the elite units that get elite care to access a lot of what military mental health care is is simply just getting you to go back to do your job, right? But when you leave the military, then the behavioral health, mental health care, it should be about getting you back to being a, you know, a human that is going to enjoy and live life to the fullest, right? So there's a difference, right? One's kind of make you a person who's going to go back to work and do is, you know, run the machines and run the papers as a as George Carlin would say. And the other is going to help you kind of be a normal human that fits into society, and that's the difference, you know? I think, well, the   Michael Hingson ** 23:25 other, the other aspect of it is that in the military, it is a very regimented sort of thing, and most of the time, there are people above you, and you realize they make the decisions, and we just carry out the orders. And now being back in the mainstream of society, you are more responsible for doing a lot of those things for yourself. And again, that's something that we need to teach people how to do.   Rob Richard ** 23:52 Again, sure. Well, I would, oh, go ahead, Michael, go ahead. No, go ahead. I was going to say I tend to disagree with that a little bit. I think people have a stereotype about military folks. You know, I you know most military people after, I said, as I mentioned before, after they hit a certain time and service a certain rank, their life is somewhat individualized. It's not necessarily a control that's a good point. Yeah, it really much is, I live in my own house. I don't live on post. I don't wake up every day and go to listen to listen to the bugle at five o'clock in the morning. You know, I think there's a misconception that soldiers are robots. When they are individuals with families, they are individuals, you know, that live lives outside of the military. Is it regimented? Yes. Is it a lifestyle? Yes. But I do think there's a misconception that the military is this completely controlling organization that has every facet of your life under control, and that's just not the case. You know, like I said, it's a it's just not really the case of how most military folks are. And there's so many great minds and artists and people that have all these great ideas that serve in the military, that are very bright and articulate and all these things. There's just a misconception about what a veteran is, I think. And I. Think that's another thing that when we tie in service and why people will and won't join, is the misconception. I mean, how many veterans do most people know? Do they have an uncle or a cousin or somebody that serves and that's something that we miss? You know, it's not exactly all the things that you see in the movie, you know, the guy on the street corner with the fatigue jacket and the one arm missing asking for money, that's that's not really most veterans. That's not really most of us. I think that's a misconception. Michael, that's just my take. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 25:24 and I, and I certainly didn't want to imply that it's so regimented that everybody's a robot, but, but I, but I, but I do think that until you get to that level that you were talking about, and I think that's a very valid point, it's probably more regimented than than a lot of people absolutely are used to. But by the same token, it still gets back to what level of support do we really give people when they when they come back, and the fact that there probably is a lot more that we could do. But you, you said something that prompts another question. And I think I'm well, I think I know the answer to this, but I'll be curious to see what you say, and that is, you're right back in the days of Vietnam veterans came home and they were they were spit on, they were not treated well, and so on. And it's a lot different today. Do you think that September 11 had a lot to do with that?   Rob Richard ** 26:20 I do. I think that people became, I was a young college student in the ROTC program, not quite in the military just yet, but I think that that event was the single catalyst to people realizing that, you know, we came together as a nation, more so than any other thing in my lifetime, ever after 911 so we came together. Now the wars that followed subsequently were very controversial, right? And they were something that divided the nation, but that particular event, you know, made the nation come together at writ large, more than any other event in history. So I think that that that kind of triggered people to be more understanding and appreciative of the military and the things that they would go do right, regardless of the political landscape, of what the wars would follow. People were very grateful. So I think 100% that 911 was a catalyst for people to be more patriotic, more supporting of the military. You know, enlistments were up. People were left and right, looking to join during that time frame, at least the first five to six years prior to the wars kind of going on, becoming quagmire, if you will. So I think so. I think you're right,   Michael Hingson ** 27:30 yeah, well, and I also think that the whole issue with the wars that followed, unfortunately, politics got much too much involved with it. So after September 11, should we have gone into Afghanistan to go after Osama bin Laden? That's one thing, but then, but then we decided to go into Iraq and go after Saddam Hussein, which was a totally different thing. And I still, yeah, and I still believe that that made no sense to do, but we did Sure, and we took our eye off the bin Laden ball, which is part of the problem. So unfortunately, politics gets too much into it and and that, in part, comes from the low bar that we have for politicians. So what do you do?   Rob Richard ** 28:19 I agree with that, yeah, we can agree on that. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 28:23 it's, it's a it's a challenge, you   Rob Richard ** 28:25 know, here's something I'll say on that, as far as I think when you serve in in I was, I'm a wreck veteran, so I've been to Iraq. I spent 15 months of my life there. And I will tell you that when you're there, you know, and I went there kind of a starry eyed sort of young lieutenant, just with the delusions of how things were going to go. So it's really a movie character on those sort of like character Oliver Stone movie, and what I saw was quite different than the reality of what I thought I would see. But I will tell you this at the end of the day, regardless of the political implications of the wars and the meanings behind them, when you have the American military machine together, right? And however chaotic it is, or however things are, I can hang my head on the fact that I was able to lead my soldiers, men and women, young people from you know, like The Rolling Stones of that great song, the salt of the earth, right? Say, say a prayer for the common foot soldier. Those were my guys, the common truck driver, mechanic and people that you know join the military for a certain purpose, whether it's money for patriotism, whatever, when asked to do this mission, regardless of its political implications, they did it. They did it well, and they did it to a level that's impressive and something that is beautiful to watch in action and that I'll always be proud of. Yeah. So if Aaron ever says, hey, you know, you serve these wars, and they're this, that and the other. I don't think when you're there, you think too much about it. That's the Coming Home part. That's the that's the thing you face later. When you're dealing with, you know, whether it's PTSD or these other sort of issues, that's when the philosophical question is to be answered. When you're there, when you're in the fight, that is. This, you doing your mission, you and your guys, the old adage, adage of left and right, that's what you're doing, and that I'm proud of, and that I can think our military did a great job. Right. Losing the war in the political sense is far different than losing the battles right in the actual militarily sense. So that's just something I hang my hat on. And I think that if we overlooked that as a society, and we overlooked that as a culture, that the wars are just this negative thing, and they were kind of, you know, excuse my language, or kind of, Bs, whatever. Yeah, we're overlooking the accomplishments of the actual people that were asked to do these things, right?   Michael Hingson ** 30:32 Well, and also well, and ultimately, let's, let's take Afghanistan. You know, we have we were there for a long time. Should we have been there as long as we were? I think that's a question that you can you can discuss and debate, but at the same time, the ultimate thing we were looking to do was to deal with Osama bin Laden, and we did that. But then we did continue to stay, and there were reasons for it. Should we have or should we have been smarter about withdrawing again? Those are all discussions that one could have. But I think that ultimately, it seems to me, you know, if people said, and people ask me, Well, did we lose the war in Afghanistan? I don't know that we lost the war, but I think the politicians didn't help but I think that the military did what they were supposed to do. I   Rob Richard ** 31:24 agree. But, you know, I the the general who said this escapes me, but it was not a 20 year war. It was a one year war fought 20 times. Yeah. So when you so you have these wars, you have a different general, a different you know, whatever it is, come in and they all have a different take on how we're going to accomplish this goal. But both those wars, whether it was the one I fought in Iraq or the one in Afghanistan, you know, they there were no real clear objectives for us. They were one year at a time, little hash marks of trying to accomplish these small goals. And we were never given a clear picture of what victory looked like, very similar to Vietnam. So I think that's, I don't think that's put on the that's not put on the backs of the common veteran. That's put on the backs of the politicians. Yeah, that was that, I was sure that's put on. I The generals too. I think so they, they owe their, you know, by that time you hit to that, that level, it's, it's a political level. And I think they're, they owe an answer to that. You know, my personal opinion, me as a retired Army officer, I think they owe an answer to that.   Michael Hingson ** 32:23 Well, we don't necessarily have the same kind of generals as we had with a patent or even a storm in Norman Schwarzkopf. You know the Sure, sure.   Rob Richard ** 32:31 Well, there's some very particular generals out there. Some good there are. But I there are, I think, I think those wars were never, never given clear, clearly defined objectives by any political figure, and that makes it impossible to what you would traditionally call a win, right? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 32:48 I do. I do. I know exactly what you're saying, and it makes and it makes perfect sense well for you. So you joined the military. Did you think that you were going to be traveling the world and seeing 31 countries and doing all the things that that you did, or was any of that a surprise to you? No,   Rob Richard ** 33:05 I'll tell you. So when you're in college and you're ROTC, you you know, or West Point, or whatever you're, you know, I was an ROTC guys. So you have West Point, you have OCS, your different commissioning sources, you're, you're branched a certain whether it's infantry or armor or whatever, I was a transportation branch. So I thought I, you know, I got stationed in Germany, my first duty assignment. And, you know, I had two deployments to the Middle East during that time. It was about a six year stint. And I never thought that I would have this amazing fun, adventurous and it's a family show here, adventurous show. Adventurous life that I had, that that that I was given. I thought I would just end up at some base somewhere in Texas, and barbecue on Sundays, drink more lights, watch football like everybody else. I never thought I'd have this great life. I never thought I'd travel the world in Gallivan so I'm very fortunate in that way. And I just, I don't think most people picture that, but when you get your first what they call assignment, your duty station, and it's Germany, and my second one being Korea, traveling all around Asia. You know, with my, my awesome wife, I I'll tell you, I never thought I would have that, to be honest with you, that's never something that crossed my mind. That level of adventure and fun, it almost kind of mitigates some of the things that you had to go through in war. It almost makes it like they kind of balance each other out, I think, well,   Michael Hingson ** 34:19 and traveling to and traveling to Germany, of course, got you your wife.   Rob Richard ** 34:24 Yes, true, yeah. So we met. You were both soldiers, and just, you know, we, we met by by sheer chance, and that's something that I look back on, and I'm always very thankful to Uncle Sam for that. So,   Michael Hingson ** 34:34 yeah, there's, there is that. Did she stay in the military?   Rob Richard ** 34:38 No, she got out. So we, we were in Korea, and then I got stationed to go work in recruiting in Dallas. And she made the decision that, you know, I was a little bit further along, a little bit older. And she made, we made the decision that, hey, the dual military thing is very difficult. That is one of the, I think, most difficult career choices you could make, is to have two service members in especially once you hit the senior levels. And so we decided, hey, you know. I'm going to stay in, she's going to get out, and she's a very successful entrepreneur, doing very well with with some things that she's got going on. So I think we made the right choice, and she gets to be mom and be this amazing mother. So I think that's something, I think collectively, was the right decision. Well, that that worked. How old? How old are the kids? I got a nine year old, my son, Alex, and then he's about to be 10, and then my daughter, Evie, named Evangeline, after a song by the the band the Great, the band Yvonne Hill, she is six. So they're, they're still pretty young. A lot of give me, give me a handful here. Well, that's,   Michael Hingson ** 35:34 that's fine, you know. And we'll see who, who does better and who handles who better? The kids handle you guys, or you handle the kids better. We   Rob Richard ** 35:43 were on a pretty tight ship here, Michael, so at least my wife does. I'm going to push over, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 35:49 Well, there you go. Well, but it, but it's, but it is interesting to to be able to see a lot of the world. And I, you know, I've, I've had the never been to Germany. I've been to Korea and spend some time there. And that was a lot of fun. I've been to Japan and to some places. I've been to the Netherlands, but not to Germany, when actually, in about a month and a half, no, actually about a month, I'll take my first trip to London to speak. Oh, wow. I've been to Ireland, but never to London. And then it's fun to go through the logistics of being able to take a guide dog to London and doing all the things to to clear the dog. I think it's a lot more work to get him ready to go than me, but we'll cope. Yeah, but it's, but it's, but it is fun. And I, I think there is so much value in seeing so many different places around the world and all that we can learn. I think that we take way too much for granted, and we we think that we're so much better, sometimes than than other places. And in some right, some ways, our country and our society works better, and some ways it doesn't necessarily do that, but I don't think it's my place to judge, but rather to go and learn and bring back knowledge and put it to use.   Rob Richard ** 37:04 I agree, it certainly makes you a better person as as a collective right to understand. You know, America's a great place, and I love this country dearly, but there are many things that that we can learn from other cultures. You know, we work so hard here in Germany, and I tell you about three o'clock, they take off and go have a beer and relax a little bit. You know, there's, and they still, they managed to run a very efficient society without the hustle culture that we have. And I, I am a stern capitalist. I love to work hard. But there's something to take away from that. You know, there's also, on the other side of the spectrum, in Korea and Asia, they work even harder than we do, right? So there's, there's a level of where to meet in the middle, and looking at these different cultural things. And, you know, it's just, I just very fortunate to have seen all that, and take a little bit from each one and kind of develop my own life, and these are gonna teach my children and stuff. So that's, that's great. I think I love London, too. The   Michael Hingson ** 37:54 founder of the National Federation of the Blind was a blind constitutional law scholar, Jacobus tembrick, who was at UC Berkeley, and one of the things that his wife told me, I never did get to know chick 10 Brook, but I knew his wife, and she said that he could go for long periods of time, because he would take what we now call a power nap for 20 minutes, and then he could get up and work for hours. And we don't encourage any of that, and I think it's truly unfortunate, because there's a lot of value in having a little bit of downtime that then keeps you able to keep moving a lot more than you think you might.   Rob Richard ** 38:33 No, no, I agree. I think that's something in the military they focused a few years, the past couple of years, on, which is, I don't know it's, maybe it's all for not but focusing on on sleep, you know, wellness and overall spiritual you know, thing that's going on here, trying to get everybody together in this sort of triad approach of wellness, sleep and physical fitness and stuff. And sleep is so important to being a successful leader. You know, one hour of sleep versus four makes all the difference in your decision making. Makes all the difference in your ability to lead, your ability to persevere through problems. So slaves huge, you know, even it's only four hours, yeah, well,   Michael Hingson ** 39:12 and but again, even during the day, taking a half hour and resting your eyes and then coming back gives you energy to continue, and we don't. We don't do enough of that. So I'm, I'm all in favor of exploring and and doing more to to deal with sleep and wellness and looking at other ways to help us move more effectively and more efficiently during the day. I agree. Yeah, so it makes sense well, now your career as a logistician and so on, as you said, is pretty unique. What what made it so unique, and why do you feel that that really helped shape you into what you are, and where do you think this is going to take you going forward?   Rob Richard ** 39:58 So I think a lot of times. When you are again, we talk about conditioning source. So when you go into the military, a lot of guys, they say, Okay, I want to be an infantry person. I want to be an armor guy. I want to be special forces, whatever. There's many different avenues that you can enter the military. And I think coming in initially as a transportation officer. You know, I went to Iraq, and I had these sort of experiences that, I think, again, we talk about movies, they're often overlooked, right? So I was in Iraq for 12 months. My first deployment, I was a platoon leader. I had 60 soldiers. I went on well over 60 plus missions that are, what are called convoys. So I was putting in these dangerous, arduous situations and these things that that could result in grave violence, and these sort of things that I experienced, and that my soldiers experienced, that gave me a unique out outlook on life, right? And I think that because of our underdog persona in nature, as logistics guys, you know, it's all a big wheel, and there's all these folks that make it work, right? And so as an underdog type character, and having these sort of salt of the earth type soldiers, it's given me a unique perspective on people, a unique empathy. I think a lot of military guys are kind of seen, seen as cold and stern, these sort of square jaw type characters. I don't really think I'm like that at all. It's giving me a unique perspective to grow and to be more loving and empathetic, to be a better dad. I think just serving that type of field and that type of profession is very different. It's also a little more diverse than, like, say, your standard, like Special Operations Unit, which is a lot of square jawed white guys from the Midwest, you know, as to where logistics, there's a much more diverse profile of people from all over, you know, from Jamaica or Puerto Rico, from every different state, from these, these different types of folks. And I really had a chance to just work with people who are different, who built my level of love and empathy overall. And I think being in the branch and the field that I was in really helped shape that for me. And then just, I don't think I would have had the experiences say I had been, you know, I mean, I went to airborne school when I was 38 so I did the paratrooper thing. I served in Special Operations units, airborne units, this sort of thing. And I'm honored to have been with those. But I think if I hadn't started in these sort of, like working class type units, you know, out of Germany, you know, under equipment, under trained, I really learned to persevere through things without the best of everything, right, without the best training, without the best you know, given the best tools to go accomplish, you had to accomplish more with less, right? And I think that really is a lesson that you can't really get necessarily in other fields and other branches of the military. I really think what I got assigned to do really helped me persevere through things and become a better person overall. And I don't know if that answers the question. But I think that's kind of, you know, the uniqueness of it that makes it different. And most people, again, haven't had the opportunity to travel and see the things I have. And I just think that, you know, I'm very fortunate in that realm. So I just think overall, holistically, my life has been better because of the job that I got. And to be honest with you, I mean, it's great to be an infantry guy, but a supply chain manager, professional supply chain manager, really does prepare you a little better for the corporate world. So in the end, it kind of helps you transition to the civilian thing that you can do and gain monetary advantage. So I think it all worked out. I   Michael Hingson ** 43:16 think it does probably just with the little that I know about it and understand about I think it does probably better prepare you, because the jobs are fairly similar to what you'll find in certain aspects of the corporate world, which is kind of important. And I like your idea on your analogy of doing things with less. I think a lot of us, especially for those of us who are blind, for example, and people with disabilities in general, oftentimes we have to deal with less, just because society hasn't emphasized making sure that we have alternatives that give us the same chances and opportunities as others do. So we have to deal with less like I work for accessibe. And so accessibe is a company that, among other things, helps makes websites more inclusive for for people with disabilities. Well, the bottom line is that people creating websites don't do things that they could do to make websites more usable and accessible right off the bat. And so the result is that we have to get creative in figuring out how, if it at all possible, we can use a website, and some we can't, because there's just no way, no way to have information that works. But there are also any number of websites that are accessible enough or have enough information that is a friend of mine once said, we can muddle through and make it work, but we do have to deal with those challenges, and I think it makes us better, because we face the challenges and we work through them.   Rob Richard ** 44:54 That makes perfect sense. That does Yeah. And   Michael Hingson ** 44:56 so you having to do that same sort of thing. Sometimes it it makes you a better person. It makes you probably more of a resilient person, but at least it makes you a more inventive person, because you don't take some things for granted.   Rob Richard ** 45:11 Yes, and you know, I think people when they have an idea of a soldier or a leader, I think emotional intelligence and empathy are something that people don't associate with the military. But when you're when you're a young, 24 year old lieutenant, all the way up through, you know, being a more senior officer or senior leader, you have so much of your life that is assigned and tasked to helping others and taking care of people. Their problems are your problems, right? You learn so much about the human condition through serving in the military that I don't think it can even compare in any other walk of life, you know, say, maybe being a first responder or something along those lines. But when you're with somebody in this this situation is arduous and dangerous for 12 months, you know, going on all the way through a 20 year career, you can't put a price or a value on how much experience you get of developing an emotionally intelligent approach to things, right? Some people, I think anybody who doesn't struggle with decisions as a human right, it goes through the experience of war and serving in the military. I think very rarely do you not come out of that with a real profound understanding of the human condition, right? And I don't think anything else could give you that, as far as a profession. And I think understanding people becoming more loving, it might not seem like something from a military guy to say, but loving empathy, you know, understanding the these, these folks and different types of people. I think it's a beautiful thing to be honest, you know, and I feel very cherished that I've had to have that opportunity to become a better human. Again, things aren't necessarily associated with like a military man who's straightforward and, you know, talks in a certain way. And again, some people aren't like that. Some people kind of go through, you know, self absorbed, like any profession, just about themselves. But I think a good military leader. You know, the army a leader, and particularly officers, we always eat last, right? So when I went to Airborne School at 38 years old, as an old, older guy, I was the second oldest guy in my class, the highest ranking person in my class, and so I ate after 200 soldiers, I let 200 people go in front of me, right? And that's not to be hubris or to brag about something, but that's just what you're supposed to do as a leader, to get to show that, hey, I'm here for you guys. You guys eat first, right? You always leaders, always eat last. There's that old adage. And I just think the regular world is not necessarily, the regular civilian world isn't necessarily that way, you know? And I think that's something that really made me grow as a human and to be a better person. So Well, I've always   Michael Hingson ** 47:40 felt, having worked in the corporate world, that a good boss is a boss who doesn't boss people around, who recognizes that leadership means sometimes you give up leadership to somebody else when there's a specific thing that you figure out they can do better. But also I believe that my role is to add value to each and every person who works for me, and I have to figure out with them how to add that value, but for the people who get it, it makes everyone a lot more powerful. And I mean that in a positive sense, it makes them a lot more productive and a lot more efficient. I think that that good leaders figure out how to do that, and that's important to do. Well, I wholeheartedly agree. So I'm curious about something. I keep coming back to it in my brain. So I'm going to ask in places like Israel, where everyone, at some point needs to go into the military, and goes into the military. And I understand why that happened. We don't do that here. How do you contrast, or what do you think about the contrast in those two methods of dealing with the military? Because then I asked that because you talked about the crisis, I'm not convinced that everyone should necessarily have to go in the military, but it's an interesting discussion to have.   Rob Richard ** 49:01 I kind of, I, you know, I like the way Korea does it. Korea has a societal conscription sort of program, right? So you can either join the military, you can be a paramedic, you can be a policeman. I don't necessarily think we need to go to that level, but I think there should be some general level of civic service, right? You have to have some level of commitment. And I think that not everyone, especially in our current society, is cut out to be in the army, to be in, you know, to be in the armed services, but there should be some level of civic conscription where people have to serve for maybe a year or two in somewhere. I really do believe in that. It might sound a little bit draconian libertarian, but I think it's something to look at. I think it would make people better humans. Because nowadays, like, there wasn't World War Two, there was a general understanding that we have a universal effort, that we're going forward as a nation. There was such a connection to the military service, and everyone chipped in, you know, everyone chipped in and all the time, and I don't think that really is the case. Everyone is going in their own direction. Shouldn't we're not going in a general direction. It's good for the country as a society, and without some sort of civic inscription, I don't know if that's possible people to truly understand what others go through, right? And so I agree. I think that we should have some sort of level of of civil civic service, not necessarily level of the draft, but right, not quite like how Israel does it, but   Michael Hingson ** 50:20 yeah, so, and I think that makes a lot of sense, and I think that also it's a great learning experience, yes, which is a part of what I think you're also suggesting, and I think that that makes a lot of sense, that that brings you into being a more well rounded individual as you go forward. And I think that it's important to do that, and we need to figure out some way to do that.   Rob Richard ** 50:46 No, I agree. I think that, you know, when you're in Israel, is a homogenous society, very similar. People have similar religions, similar takes. Our society, when you look at as a whole, is completely different than any other society in the world, as how different we are in the many cultures that we have in a collective approach to civil service, I think could help, I really do think could help something to unify us. Again, not quite to the 911 unification type, right, but somewhere where we can come together as society and say, Hey, we got a common purpose here. Let's go forward with it. You know, so   Michael Hingson ** 51:18 Well we, we were so unified after September 11, and I can point to specific political things that damaged that and took away from the unification and so unfortunate that that kind of thing occurred. And we have, there are other aspects. I mean, we also now have this technology where everyone has so much instantaneous access to so much information, some of which is real and some of which is false, but still the the fact is, we have access to things that we didn't before. And you mentioned World War Two, I collect old radio shows as a hobby, and I listen to many of the shows in the World War Two era, and listen to how all the actors, all the people on those shows, were part of the story that helped pull the country together, and everyone was committed. Yeah, there were challenges. Yeah, there were problems, but people really did come together for the most part, and worked because we knew it's what we needed to do, and that's the operative part. We knew what we needed to do. We needed to be unified, and if we weren't, that was a problem.   Rob Richard ** 52:36 Oh no, I agree. I think, though, there's a fine balance between unification and then a controlled narrative that takes people away from a independent free thought, right? One of the things we've gotten away from is independent free thought. There are two sides to everything. There's my side, your side, and a good collective would be great, but that you still have to have that, that approach to independent thought, right? And I also think something's missed about the military, if I could expound a little bit, is that many people in the military here are some of the world class cynics. You know, they're not necessarily these, hook, line and sinker, follow suit, type of folks. They're just the they're very aware of their situation and sort of what's going on. And they're very like, okay, is this really the deal here? You know, people are very skeptical. They're very they have a lot of free thought, a lot of independent thought. They're very politically engaged in what they think, and very go after things and have articulate points that that they clearly think of, as opposed to just like, Oh, we're all we all think the same. You know, that's a misconception about the military. We don't there are people of all different facets and walks of life and and think completely different on every issue under the sun, and that's important. So I think having a collective civic response and duty to things is great, but we start to keep our independent thought as a nation in a society.   Michael Hingson ** 53:53 I think the other part of that, though, is that we need to learn again, to be understanding of people who have a different position than we do, and we need to stop saying, Well, you're wrong, and because they think we're wrong, whoever they and we and you are. And the reality is it's it's more than just having the independent thinking ability and opportunity, but it's being able to talk about it and people who truly can, again, learn so much because you you learn to understand why people think the way they do sometimes or a lot of times. And that's important too.   Rob Richard ** 54:36 Yes, absolutely, I agree 100% so   Michael Hingson ** 54:40 logisticians are generally not part of when you watch movies and so on, they're not typically what's featured. What? Why is that? Or how do we get the logistics world a little bit more understood? And I know that that goes beyond the military, but you know, nevertheless, yeah.   Rob Richard ** 54:59 Yeah, well, so again, I think you're looking at what in this. This is to take nothing away from anyone. So when you look at most of the majority of TV shows and books, and rightfully so, I'll say rightfully so, so much of it is about special operations, yeah, frontline soldiers, what you would call, you know, in World War Two, there was a linear Battlefield, so there were two entities facing each other, face to face in a situation, but over the past 20 years, and even all going all the way back to Vietnam, they weren't linear battlefields. They were battlefields where all these support type soldiers, whether it's communicators or truck drivers, mechanics, even cooks and these other people, are combat veterans. They are facing combat. They have dangerous and arduous tales of heroics that need to be told often. You know, especially in particular in convoy operations throughout Afghanistan and Iraq. I think it's overlooked because it's well, it's not sexy, it's not what people want to see. It's not the conditioned thing of what people are supposed to see. But I think it can often be talked about in a humorous way, like we, I think you and I, we talked a little bit about mash, right? And that's about doctors, Army doctors who are support personnel and enablers. And there's a comedic approach to it. It's not all just serious, stoic, you know, movie sort of nonsense. It is a, it is a comedic approach to a real topic, and it covered it gracefully. You know, Hogan's Heroes, these sort of comedic shows that we all had, that we were elected, who understood, and that we love McHale's Navy again, another one. I think that logisticians and support folks are often overlooked because it's just not what is considered to be cool. But there are stories about war, about these brave and courageous things that people have done, and I've witnessed with my own eyes that I think is an interesting and fun story, not fun, but an interesting story that needs to be told so that legacy doesn't drift off into the wind, like the gun trucks in Vietnam, right? There was these things that were developed. A great documentary on Smithsonian about it, called gun trucks, that talks about this. And I think it's exciting, and I think it hits that appeal in the million brain of what war is supposed to be. And I just think it's often overlooked longer. If   Michael Hingson ** 57:11 I were to think of one show though that I think probably did a better job of dealing with logistics and so on, it'd be mash in a lot of ways. Yeah, it was, it was different, but it did try to strike a balance between the comedic environment, but also the challenges and the horrors of war.   Rob Richard ** 57:35 Yeah, I agree, and that show is universally one of the best examples. If I had to pick a show that's really realistic military wise, I think it's pretty spot on the movie itself, you know, Robert Alton, and even the book, you know, those things are pretty spot on to what really it's like. Oliver Stone had to give this interview once again. He's a Vietnam vet, and they ask about what the American war experience is like. And it's just not like the movies. It's completely chaotic. It is a great plan that goes awry quickly, and it is just absolute chaos. Everything that you're doing on a daily basis, you know. And there's also a large period of boredom where there is no action, whether you're a Special Forces guy or a supply sergeant, you know, half the time you're kind of waiting around, planning things, doing mundane tasks, developing relationships with people and friendships and bonds that are last a lifetime. You know, these things that are a great story that that just, I think, need to be articulated and told to the general populace in America.   Michael Hingson ** 58:28 Yeah, well, there's a book for you to write.   Rob Richard ** 58:32 Yeah, I know. Well, we'll see. So there's something I'm working on too.   Michael Hingson ** 58:36 So you're retiring. So what's the toughest thing about retiring, and how is all that working, and where are you going to go from here?   Rob Richard ** 58:44 So the toughest part, I think, for most soldiers, is just leaving the lifestyle, leaving the military, like we mentioned before and we discussed, is that it is a way of life for you, right, as a way of life that's laid out, and everything is kind of a certain way, regardless of, you know, individual intention. For me, that's not really the hardest part. I think the hardest part is just, honestly, is going to be leaving the people like, what I would call my guys, and that includes men and women just, or what they would call the team room and special forces, is like just the collective of being around people that have a shared understanding of your experiences once you leave that That's the toughest part, right? The toughest part is, is coming home, I think, as they say, from war, and I think that's that is something that is a challenge for me, some people, it's the power, you know, I got the I'm this guy, I'm here, I'm there. But I think for me, it's just leaving that environment of people that I generally love and care for, and that's the toughest thing that's going to be for me. So when you're talking about going forward, you know, right now, I'm looking at some defense contracting stuff. It kind of suits my skill set. There's some corporate things that I got in the works. My plans to work for a few years, and. In the supply chain, management space, work on my writing some other things. If I tell you, if I had one dream in life, it would be just to be a stand up comedian. So that's I write all the time. I don't I gotta go tell some more people than just my goofy friends of my wife. But there are things I have in the works that I think will will translate well from my military service and stuff. So the hardest part for me is just leaving the folks. I'll tell you that, Michael, it's the hardest part   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:24 well, but you're you're moving on, and you're going to now start a new adventure, and some of it may continue to involve the military in some ways. And I will only say that you'll have to come back sometime next year and tell us how things are going. I think it would be fun to have another discussion once you're fully retired, no matter what you do, even if you're doing something that involves government contracting and you still work with a lot of the same folks, in some ways, it'll be fun to hear the adventure and hear how it's going. Yeah,   Rob Richard ** 1:00:55 absolutely. Thanks for having me. This has been a great experience. It's my first, like I mentioned before, my first non, you know, discussion with someone who wasn't connected to the military or wasn't a family or a friend in a public space. So I really appreciate you having me today, and let me tell my story a little bit. And really thank you very much for for for giving me this opportunity. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:18 I really appreciate you taking the time to come on and spending it with us. And I'm hoping that everyone who listens to this that you liked it as well, and that you found it interesting, and that you learned something from it, and you saw a really unstoppable person, needless to say. And I think that that's something that we all can can not only admire but work toward emulating. So I want to thank you for doing that, Rob, but I want to thank all of you for listening. I hope that you liked our episode today. If you did, I'd love to hear from you. Please email me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I b, e.com. You can also go to our podcast page, www.michaelhingson.com, Michael hingson.com/podcast, and Michael Hinkson is spelled M, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o, n.com/podcast, you can leave comments there, and you can listen to all the different episodes that that we've had. And we we really value you listening to them, and wherever you're listening. Please give us a five star review. We really like your reviews. We want to hear your thoughts, but I'd love to hear them personally, as well as whatever you do in the way of review. But of course, I'm prejudiced. We really want those reviews to be five star. If you know of anyone who you think would be a good guest and Rob same for you. We'd love to hear from from you and them. We'd love to hear about possible guests. I don't know. We may have to have Rob, get his son to come on the podcast. That might be,   Rob Richard ** 1:02:48 well, he's very entertaining kid. My daughter's a funny one, though she's the funny one. My Well, there you go. More stoic, she's funny. So well, we'll   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:55 let you pick that out. But what you know, we we always are looking for guests, and we really appreciate it if the opportunity comes along to to introduce us to other people, we value that, and we have a lot of fun with it. So Rob, I want to thank you once again for being here. We really value your time, and this has been great. So thank you.   1:03:12 Thank you   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:19 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. 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