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Today we get to visit with Daniel Spelman of Liverpool UK. Daniel grew up experiencing the condition of cerebral palsy which greatly affected his mobility as a youth. It led to a major surgery for him when he was in his second year of what we call high school. Doctors told him it would take at least two years before he would be able to walk again. Daniel and his unstoppable attitude were walking after only eight months. At the age of 15 he began volunteering at a community radio station. He ended up working at that station for ten years holding several jobs and eventually became the station manager and program director. During his tenure as manager the station received significant accolades including winning the North Radio Station of The Year 2021. Daniel left the station in 2022 as he felt it was time to move on to something different. He held sales positions which now have led him and his brother to start their own company that launches in late January of 2024. This conversation shows what is really like for someone to be unstoppable. We all can learn from Daniel Spelman and what he has to say. About the Guest: I was born with the condition cerebral palsy this led me struggling in school as kid socialising I also missed a lot of high school due needing surgery in this really indepth procedure that saw my ankle smashed and reset with mental plates and screws in bedded within my foot, my hamstring and calf had work done in this 5 plus hour surgery, I was told I it be be very unlikely I wouldn't be able to walk for the next year or half I recovered and was walking within 8 months returning to school for last term of that year. However having missed a chunk of my time in education my grades were massively effected me. I knew I had to push forward be the hardest worker in any room I walked in learn and shadow from the best people I could. so when I finished school I few weeks later took my first steps into my career. At just 15 years old I started volunteering at community radio station 99.8FM KCC Live learning not just presenting & programming but advertising and marketing at a high level & fast paced marketing techniques and dealing with sponsorship and advertising as years past, I was a part of multiple award winning teams at KCC Live fast forward few years, I was asked and took the regins of one of the prime time shows (drive time) The Big Live Drive, I built such strong branding it became regular that past, current and future UK Chart Stars, and with myself becoming well known nerd I positioned a partnership with my then drive show with multiple nationwide comic con conventions working on social media content for both the station and comic con as well as interviewing TV and movie stars from likes DC, Marvel, Doctor Who universe and many Tv and movie producers. Whilst growing the show I was asked and took on the role of Station Manager following a brief spell as Station Coordinator following previous management structure breaking down, the station at the time struggling in multiple areas however my strategies took the station from struggling to tripling content output both on and off air within a few weeks. I was then tasked with guiding the station through and out the pandemic, training new staff in leading marketing strategies and after just over a year and half being Station Manager I had guided KCC Live to wining Prolific North Radio Station Of The Year 2021. Those awards highlight those in marketing and media sectors putting the north on the map. I stepped down as Station Manager in 2022 after false promise and my contract not being honoured by the station director,, I represented myself in the tribunal and proved the unlawful decution of wages that was ruled in 2023. This situation took its toll on my mental health I spent the last year rebuilding myself I lost passion for radio and mentoring others I needed to how I was going to regain my confidence. I did so moving into Sales Executive role working with and representing companies/partners such as BT/EE for few months I know embark on new journey setting up my own company alongside my brother at Luma Socials set to launch in January 2024. Ways to connect with Daniel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/producerdan95?igsh=ODA1NTc5OTg5Nw== About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! 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Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi there. Welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset wherever you happen to be. I am your host, Mike Hingson. Today, we get to chat with Daniel Spelman. Daniel lives in Liverpool. I haven't heard that, that he tried out with the Beatles yet. But well, we can talk about that if he wants. Before my time for a little bit before your time. Well, there you go. But still, I know Daniel has lots of stories and lots of things to talk about. Gosh, starting out almost from birth, but we'll get to all of that. But Daniel, first of all, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Really glad you're here. And looking forward to the next hour. Daniel Spelman ** 02:03 Michael, thank you for having me. I just just had to before we would start recording, it's uh, you know, hearing your story. And what you've been through and the challenges you face to be asked to be a guest on your podcast is an absolute honor, mate. Well, Michael Hingson ** 02:16 I'm glad really to, to, to have you here. And I know you have a lot of a story to tell. So why don't we start by Why don't you tell us a little bit about kind of the early Daniel, growing up and all that that you want to talk about? Yeah. Daniel Spelman ** 02:33 So growing up, we spoke briefly before when we were sort of arranging the podcast, and something I've never really touched on in my sort of career in radio broadcasting, his people sort of forget, they hear my voice, but they may not know what I made look like or what I go through. But I was born with the medical condition cerebral palsy. I never say disability or just it's not in my mindset. To say that I feel like it's a negative. I don't know why I just always have felt that way. But yeah, growing up was tough. You know, having a condition not many people sort of understood. And I feel like to this day, cerebral palsy is one of them. conditions that people don't fully understand what because people can have it in different spectrums. You know, one of my closest friends in radio has it a little bit more severe than me. But it's still one of the best broadcasters I've ever watched, grow and develop and one of the best human beings I know as well. And you know, I had a big surgery, just going into my teens. But before getting into that, like, I think just the social aspect. You know, cerebral palsy can be anything from just moderate thing. So like I had difficulties and shoelaces at a young age, tie in buttons and fiddly just wasn't for me. Socially, I wasn't that great. I was quite anxious. I was quite shy. Which is mad to think now. But yeah, I did really struggle and sort of childhood had to wear splints, something I've never really spoke on before, which wasn't a nice thing. You know, I was sort of bullied in in primary, what we call primary school in the UK, and it sort of thickened me up. I've always had a thick skin. And it's funny now that I'm saying people who picked on me back then now sliding into mediums because of the career I've somehow managed to sort of carve out for myself and the things I've achieved. But going into 2008 I had a major surgery. I still remember the doctor's name. And Dr. Sampath was in one of the probably the best hospitals in the UK for children called all the hay here in Liverpool as well. And, and I had to go on into that I had to do this thing called data analysis or basically I don't know if you've ever you're a big sci fi fan, Michael. Oh, yes. Yeah, so joke's on you, like, you might sort of watch something and you've got like probes on them to record or you know, do to make the movie sort of thing. And you'll see them in like weird suits, or you'll, you know, hear it and it's just one of them things. So I basically had to do that it looked like I was going for like an episode of Star Trek or something. So I had all these probes stuck on me, I had to walk up and down out of all these different movements just to see what was going on. And then that led to led to the surgery in 2008, where my hamstring was re lengthened, my calf muscle was redone. My ankle was shattered and put back together with metal plates and rods and all that stuff. It was really in depth surgery. And I was in surgery, I think for six to eight hours, a family member told me, I got told that I won't be able, I'd have to learn to walk again, obviously, but I won't be able to walk for you're looking at like two years. And so you know, I was in like year eight at this point, which is like, middle school, I guess in high school teams in America. I'm not too sure. But yeah, so it was like second year of high school, basically. So I missed the entirety of that, and sort of just had to somehow just sitting in one room for six, eight months, just the idea to do and that drove me insane. I managed to rehab in eight months. So from two years being told not to walk I was walking again in eight months, which was I still stay say to this day is probably my biggest achievement. I don't know how I did it. I was 1314. And then land to have the mindset of knowing how to walk again. And I don't even know how I would do it if I had to have that surgery over again. But yeah, that was sort of early childhood going into teens. Michael Hingson ** 06:56 Now. Was the surgery, essentially the result of the cerebral palsy? Is that really kind of the underlying thing that caused the need to do it and why your ankle needed to do to be LinkedIn and so on. Daniel Spelman ** 07:11 Yeah, so went that it had to be it was becoming uncomfortable. So basically what cerebral palsy is, for those who don't know is it's basically the spasticity around your joints constantly tighten. So this Adrianna post, there be a long term fix for me. And I'm not saying it is, but I've went on from that Airdrie in 2008. I always say that is the turning point in my life really, there was 210 points, one we'll get onto in a little bit. In 2011, the other one was 2008 gone through that. And the was the it was a result of the CP but it was to not check like it was just to give me a better quality of life. It went to say it was going to be life altering which it turned out it was both me luxury supposed to be getting done. But the wet market, like I'm more predominant on the left side than just the left leg. So my right side is quite strong. As I said, I had a mild through either bleed on the brain whenever when I was born. That's where my CP came from. And I call TP for sure. Because a Michael Hingson ** 08:22 lot of people know that. Daniel Spelman ** 08:25 Yeah. So yeah, so the surgery was a result of that. So like just the it was more the rehab. So you'd see different elements. I went through hydrotherapy. So it was a lot of getting into hot water and movements. And that was the TV side of it. I always remember I hated swimming anyway. And so when I was like, we're gonna do hydrotherapy. And I thought, oh, that sounds lovely. That sounds like I'm gonna be on a beach. No, no, it was a lot of hard work, a lot of hard work and a really hot swimming pool. But, you know, came through it. It was definitely a life changing experience in mentality, as well as physical for me. Michael Hingson ** 09:02 How did your parents cope with all of this? Daniel Spelman ** 09:04 So my parents were separated when I was growing up, so I only live with my mom and my mom. And I've never said this to her because I'm quite, you know, I'm not I'm not a soft Thiebaud she was definitely a rock. My soul was my brother and my sister. It must have been hard on them to see me go through that but and obviously they must have got some stick in school. I don't know a dad. I don't know what they experienced. But my mum always has been this sort of super caring person. My dad also visited me it's not like I don't know who he is. But yeah, and like it was it definitely did take its toll and I think more on the mum than anyone else. Because obviously it was bad written in the living room for those eight months. And they get school visits from, you know, my classmates and it was me when we talked me into school because she just saw me being fed up at home. So I ended up going into school in a wheelchair towards the end of that second. Second year in high school, I got back to the start of the third. And then the wants to take the metal rods out. And I was like, you can wait a little bit because I'm not sitting in any more beds or hospital beds. I've only just started walking again. No, we crack jokes. I think with my family, it's a lot of humor. So my brother because he knew I had them at play, and we fought or we said he'll get a big magnet to it and see what happens. And but yeah, it was just a little bit of humor, I think he's just sort of deal with them things. In the moments, I'm sure you've had their moments as well, with your condition where people wouldn't sort of understand fully, you sort of just get these handles and you've sort of got to jump over them, or it's sort of sink or swim, there's probably the best way to put it. Michael Hingson ** 10:50 Right? Well, then that's the choice that you get to make. Yeah, and you talked about disability and the you don't like to say that what you had was a disability, I appreciate that. I'm actually in the process of writing an article that probably I'll finish this weekend, and the title of it is disability a new definition. And what I'm basically saying is, in the article, disability does not mean a lack of ability. And that the reality is that everyone has some sort of disability. And I could make that case very strongly. And the idea is that basically, disability is a characteristic we all have, and it manifests itself in different ways. Yeah, Daniel Spelman ** 11:35 I always remember, I don't my work experience, we do this thing in the UK, I don't know if you do it in America, or where where you are. Like basically, you'd go into towards the end of high school, you'd go into a place of work for two weeks, and you would experience what it's like just doing an everyday job. So I don't know what you call it a canteen, like a canteen, lady. But that's what I did, basically, when a company lady was just serving food. But in that process I met it was a mom school, my mom was a TA and she supported kids with autism. People who couldn't physically speak data use sign language or packs, like these little sign sort of box things. And it was very interesting to be for. And this was a lot in a different class to be on. But I just thought it took a liking. We sort of just bonded. And he had a condition, I can't remember where it was called. But basically his life expectancy wasn't that high, like you're looking at mid 30s tops. But he understood and probably lived more like life wise, like you just enjoy life, the little things. So so much. And I just to this point, I was like no matter, you know, some people live more in 30 than some people do an 80 Yeah. And that's something that just sort of stuck with me. And then they're all sort of motto is like a read somewhere in a book, you can, you know, just decide what you want to be and go be it I can't remember where I saw that. But that's sort of a motto that stuck in my head. I didn't know what I wanted to do. Because obviously I had all these surgeries, I had all these obstacles to overcome. I didn't really do well in a classroom. And at all in that sort of environment. It just wasn't for me, I was always fidgeting. And I sort of just was like, I want to be doing something I don't want to be sat here doing, you know, math, which was quite handy to refer. But you know, you think like that when you're young. And then when you leave you go, I should have took advantage of being in that room and laying off these people who've got degrees and stuff. And so yeah, I was sort of in that sort of back end of high school just my mind wasn't in it. I was just like wanting to be elsewhere and actually wants to be a cook. My granddad was a massive influence on me. He still is to this day. And even through the battles he's having currently with his health, I still want the one looking after all of us. And so yeah, I want to sort of be a chef like him, but then realized that just didn't have the patience when it comes to cooking at all. Or they'll eat the food while they're making it. And so I remember, I've always been intrigued by music we brother BJ, I play guitar. My dad was a massive Barbies fan. So you know music. I was a massive Beatles fan growing up not like it's popular now for young people like old music. It wasn't then I was playing Beatles riffs on electric guitar at the age of 1415. Don't get chance to play the guitar as much as I would now like to now. But yeah, absolutely loved Beatles loved different genres of music. My mom was a big rock fan. And she also like a lot of parts of it was always different. Something was being played, there was always some musical elements in the house, or the radio was on. And I just got intrigued by radio, like, how does this work? I've always I always had that sort of inkling. So in 2011 I was volunteering anyway. Because I just felt like because I left school with not much in education wise, like qualifications, anything like that. I was like, How can I make up for that? Right? Okay, I can I can outwork everyone in the room, that's always been just my mentality, it doesn't matter if I've got a condition. I'll outwork any person in any room. They like you can be the fit. I'm the first one in the last to leave. And, and that's the mentality of taken to everything to do. And so I started just volunteering in charity shops, furniture shops, like, you name it, I locally I was involved in in it, if it was putting on events for charities, if it was just collecting money for charities. I did that. And then I remember going into college to enroll on a on a media course. And they came across a community college, radio station, and red community radio station based within the college I was going to, and I was speaking to a lot called Dave North who's now a presenter on BBC Merseyside. Now who's phenomenal still, I would later become a mentor, I would later go on to, you know, work alongside him at the radio station. And, you know, go on to take one of the shows, he sort of made iconic at that station. And so yeah, signed up at 15. And just got this radio book, I was a massive nerd, I would just became a sponge listening to all these amazing people who have gone on to have commercial success in the radio industry in the UK, I could name so many people off the top of my head. You know, Rob Tobin, who's Kiss FM is one of the biggest stations in the UK. He's now producing the breakfast show there, which is like Emmys, and there's so many people. And it's not even the people who made it in the industry. It's all the people who are just really good mentors in how to be a good person. And so yeah, I learned a lot at that station. KCC lives I was there from 2011 That's when I started there. Michael Hingson ** 17:24 And how long were you there? Daniel Spelman ** 17:25 All the way up till 2022. So how's 10 years? Yeah, 1010 plus years? Michael Hingson ** 17:34 Yeah. So right, so radio, you definitely got the radio bug. And yeah, you decided to kind of make that up a career to work at. Daniel Spelman ** 17:45 I realized I was really good at chat and nonsense very quickly. And, and I was naturally just funny without thinking. I'm funny. And but I went right off the bat. Like, I had amazing teachers how Evans you know, he was a massive mentor in sort of the management stage. And he saw something in me when I started presenting the Dr. Show, but Chrissy, Chrissy, well, it's now she's another like, Hi open in BBC and sort of management and journalism and stuff and she sort of a call me radio mom, she'll hate me here heard me say that to her. But like, she just was she was a really good mentor, you could just have a cup of tea with her and talk about anything that's going on, sort of person, because that's what the community radio station is, I don't know if it's the layout in, in America, but over here, you know, several different types of radio stations. So that was a community station. So you will have some paid staff, you will have some, I must have called a volunteer base within it. And so it was like 5060 volunteers at any given time, rarely, in different roles. I sort of done a lot of shows. I did take a breather in 2015. And sort of, you know, I was going into mid 20s. Then I just finished me sort of media sort of course. And I was just I took a little bit of a breather from doing radio shows and still sort of popped into the station still kept my head in there. I was always doing management stuff behind the scenes as well. So I'll just present now I was learning programming how to put shows together islands like the production of a show what goes into you know, making entire product and and all these other elements. And so when I sort of left and got that breathe and came back I remember crazy turnarounds me I came back, and I was just covering a mid morning show 10 to one. We call it mid morning over here and for a couple of weeks and then the Dan drive presenter. The show was called the big loud job never changed his name in the time period. A Dutch Shell run from the beginning of the station. So it broadcasted to the whole of noseley, which is one of the biggest borders, a Liverpool and, and it had the challenges financially because of you know, it was a community radio station and a lot of people's connotations with radio were very commercial or the BBC or it's not like that a lot of its funding. It's a lot of its community projects. So we are doing a lot of that events as well. I Lance, and there was just a broad practice mock up effort. ATAR was talking about it. But yeah, when I came back in 2015, after a little bit of a breather, so 2015 back end of 2015 going into 2016. Chris, he asked me to save on the den, sort of Dr. Shawn going into 2012 2017 No, so 20 2017 And it's like we're not there yet. So that was a massive honor, because that's the show Dave North who I was like, when I speak about radio, the one I think about doing radio, his ideas when it comes to radio games, or features you'd hear on the radio, I've never met someone as brilliant as him, he'll just come up with so many amazing games, stuff like that, and nothing in radios original, but you've got to put your own spin on it. And you've got to be okay with it. So once thought of an idea, but how can you make it different? How can you make it your own. And a good example of that is like a carpool karaoke was a big thing in America, it was I don't know thing called dry town karaoke, where I would just phone someone, and they would have to finish a karaoke song. Michael Hingson ** 21:30 For this, what time of day was the show on. Daniel Spelman ** 21:34 So it was three till 6pm. That was to Thursday, but when I took over, it was Monday to Friday. So I actually co host that with a friend of mine all the way down. And he was just someone who taught me tacky, say this stuff when I ended up taking over the radio station. A few more years. So I co hosted with him. So I started originally there on a Monday, Tuesday, he then Wednesday, Thursday, and we're just sort of shared the Friday slot. And then when Chris he left to go, BBC, and she made me the main sort of dry presenter, and I would then go on to do that show Monday to Thursday, sometimes Friday for the for the first year. And for five years, six years, which was, well, I didn't think of it at the time. But by the time I left in 2022, you know, someone said, people have started uni and finished uni. And I've gone into the careers while you've done this show. And I was like, I've never really thought about it like that. And so it was a weird show to leave. For me, it was somewhere I think I felt sort of comfortable in that time slot, I grew as a person, and I sort of grew up as well from a sort of a teenager, young adult into, you know, doing adult things, and, you know, actually, you know, adult challenges and stuff and day to day life have done this. You know, it was just like the topics but it was so different. When from when I started that show, they were so silly to like that I won't go I'm not gonna say they were serious. But you know, they were more mature, sort of funny, you know, stuff. So as a presenter, I sort of found my groove in in doing that show. nuts when I was poor, sort of put in the position, the station at the time went through a management change as a secretary as he left, who was then the station manager, and one of my best friends who I was close to at the at the station, Mark took over. And it was just a lot of different elements. And for some reason, it just didn't work out. And I sort of without realizing it took up the mantle and running the station. And I think a lot of people just look to me, because I was a part of that management setup with with so many of the people marshals and other person. And we were crazy that I was always around those people in the early years. And so I started doing things what they would do, but they put my own little twist on it. So you know, my my music tastes and the way I see things, there's going to be different to what, you know, Johnny down the street is gonna think but you know, we could find some common ground. And obviously, you've got to move with the time. So I was very aware of that. And then when I was offered the position and station manager and going into it was like back in the 2019 2020 I was running the station as a coordinator for the 2019 and so I became the station manager 2020 Officially. And from that point it was it was struggling financially. And I was talking to someone who's like involved with the station. You don't show but he wants to sort of come on board and help sort of financially and support it. So I just put them into contact with a board of directors who's sort of been the front of the station while I saw a lens how to You sort of get to grips with managing a radio station. I was only at this point 2324, which is crazy to think even a small radio station, but it's so you know, 1000s of people. And that's a lot of pressure. Like that's, that's not many people do that. I think back now, and not many, not, not many people, it's a very sort of big step. And it was how we were mentioned earlier who saw you saw something in me when I was doing that sort of drive show. And he started becoming the mentor, he was working in commercial radio. And at the time, and I remember, we saw I'd never really spoke with him, he was the founder at the station as well. And with a guy called Chancellor George Sweeney, the station still exists to this day, definitely one supporter, you know, I think it's definitely needed in the area. It's from I'm from that area. So like, it's 1% needed. And but yeah, when he came to me, and we sort of broke with a sort of a friendship and mentorship, because I went off to them one day and went, can you just tell me how I can improve as presented, be as harsh as you want, because I need darted, something's not working. And I can get to another level presenting, but I need to want to be harsh, not harsh on purpose, but like, you know, critique me the best you can, because I'm only going to develop through through through there. And he didn't even hold back, which I totally respect. And I, you know, I saw the benefits of myself when I talk in everything he said. And then later down the line, when it became station manager, he was a massive part of me being mentally sort of coping with that. And so yeah, that was a big challenge. So literally, I was announced as station director, Air Station Manager in December 2019. And obviously, that was going into, you know, I think called the global pandemic, which we all didn't see, come on. So like, the first thing I had to do is, was stare at a radio station through that. Michael Hingson ** 27:16 Officially, yeah. And so you, you, you took on this responsibility, were you still doing a show? Or were you just manager full time and not doing a show anymore than Daniel Spelman ** 27:28 now? I'm still doing a show. I was doing a show five days a week. Michael Hingson ** 27:32 Dr. Show? Yeah, Daniel Spelman ** 27:34 I felt like, I want to be in the transfusion trenches with the volunteers. And, and I would, I wasn't being paid for that time I was doing the radio show. I am. Like, it was something I had a passion for. It's something I wouldn't tip on. So I was doing in that time period, we're talking about when, when I was becoming station managers during the show, and still continue with the show, obviously, when station manager was was, you know, in a position of technically paid stuff, and, and basically, I would just be making, because I just felt like, well, you know, I'll do the show, but I'll also be doing planning meetings with people, right, going in and out, I'll be recording odd links and then jumping into the Zoom or I'll be on the phone to Samangan right? This what we're gonna do this what we're gonna plan and, and sort of my methodology was just the biggest thing because I came into that station as in a managerial role when it was sort of on its knees financially and creativity creatively. Michael Hingson ** 28:37 Why was why was that the case? Why was it having financial problems? It sounds like your show at least was very successful. Why were their financial problems community Daniel Spelman ** 28:46 radio, so like, as I said before, a lot of people's connotations with radio, especially in the UK are very commercial or BBC so these distinctions don't really make money like you will think like shifted the code or a lot of it through funding projects and the kindness of people to you know go I see the value in this if you think of it like the local sorry about the local boxing gym or something like that. It's the exact same thing what what we were doing with just radio Atlanta like punching each other in the face. But essentially that it's the exact same thing it's the exact same principle it's just copy and paste. So it was just that management. Like between myself and Chrissy mark just sort of broke broke down for I don't know the reasons I still talk to Mark to this day have a huge amount of respect for him as he does me not many people knows what it's like to sit in that seat as a as the manager on a radio station. And I saw just fell into it. I say this to people I went the probably the pair factories. I was just the right plate person at the right time you picked have a couple of meetings you people pointed out or just let look that for leadership and I don't know why. And so that's when I sort of realized at 24, I was a leader and had to, you know, those people 10 years, 15 years older than me who had 1010 years experience on me. But I remember, two volunteers in particular, and I'm really good friends with them. And the ones just been on me shoulder to shoulder the other. And so I don't mind name dropping them right now. But like, his name's Johnny be great DJ, and Matt, your music re volunteer, you should also just be not long become a dad. So congratulations, Marty, if you're watching this. And I remember when I was announced the show manager, my biggest worry was how do I get the people who I've known for years on board behind this decision that the board of directors have made, and both of them called me back to back within an hour of each other. Just saying you've got this support? Yeah. 100%. So like, soon as I knew I had them on board, I brought some old cases, you'll have Oh, geez, we used to call them and back. And they they they got involved and I was Dad sort of touch me emotionally just people that I looked up to when I was 1516. Landing off them came back just to do a show or just be involved in the station or just support like the new people at the station. And so it was a big team effort. And the first year when I was coordinator, we all just donated money to keep the station going. That is a true story. Him all the presenters myself, I was working in another job. But yeah, like that's what we did. We just chipped in chipped in money. And then like, going into 2020, obviously, we had a new director come in. So Howell stepped away after 17 years. And which even though we were still always on the phone to me, or I knew the call, if I needed them, I could call them that was a big like I was then like, Okay, this is this is sort of, I'm rarely staring the ship now. And yeah, we had a new station director. And and that was something that was a big challenge. But first of all had to get through COVID. So being 24, knowing how to no one dealt with a global pandemic. So stay there through that somehow, we actually traveled contents in that time. So we went from struggling, so we are still struggling financially, but we are, you know, with the new director, he sort of had connections with funding streams. So he sort of took care of that side of things, I just my job was just to worry about the programming. So I was doing that got through co COVID. Somehow I was doing like the safety checks for COVID. So I was I was the guy who would still go in even when the disability was still going, well, condition, I said the disability were and, and I went in and I sort of checked in on the station. But I also have an open door policy. So I can continue that through call without having meetings with everyone, every day, I'd have a four 4pm check in or 5pm Check in time where we'll just have a zoom. And we could talk and sort of chatter everyone. And if anyone had any inclination, or they wanted to change something about the station, I was totally open to that. Because you need to be you need, you know, you're only as good as your weakest part of the team. And no one was weak, we all helped each other. We all like my my things always been like, Oh, I'm doing really well. I'm going to pick my friend up and we're going to you know, we're going to climb this mountain together, come on over, there's a bigger hill that's come on, let's go together. You know, if you want to go fast, you go alone, if you want to go long you go together. And it's one of them like if it works. You built a team. Yeah. And we we managed to turn it round, strong, quite strong financially, to the point where we had I had paid staff around me as well. So I had an amazing marketing guy I got to pick him come in and he changed the atmosphere to another level. So I went from being non creative sort of creatively stifled when I took over to everyone laughing taking the mick but in a good way. And we're all like every Could everyone could just give freedom of expression, which was the whole point of the station. It was there for young people to sort of develop and learn about themselves like I did. And it's all it's all about, you know, young people finding the voice as well. So you make that front and center and you say to people like you make a mistake, I'm not going to tell you off, you only learn from your mistakes. I encourage mistakes like people go, Oh, I messed up. I started on that I was like, and that means you don't sound like Siri or Alexa or all these other, you know devices. That just proves to the listener. You're human. It's okay. And so it was just little things like that and people felt comfortable. And then we brought in I'm Meg shore, who's a phenomenal singer, by the way, local artists, where I am in Liverpool, she actually went to a Paul McCartney school, by the way, talking about the Beatles. And so she came in on a Kickstarter scheme. And within months, this is just 18 months old from me taking over we own radio station of the year, which is the award just behind me for those, I've just realized it's on the shelf just right there. So I've got a copy of that one. There's one in the case slave headquarters still, but yeah, they got kindly given one as well. And so that's quite nice to sort of have have one to keep. And so yeah, that was probably a highlight as well. Sadly, my team at the time got COVID. And I didn't, so I was the only one at the awards. bought, like, we were up against major, you know, BBC bite sized programs. And although radio entities, and I just we were just glad to be invited to go to the awards. And so in 2021, to win that I was just sat there, it took me a little second when you said the station and was like, oh, yeah, that's me. And so yeah, that was a really nice moment to you know, pick up an award. In such an incredible venue is Old Trafford cricket ground. So yeah, which is quite historic as well. Michael Hingson ** 36:23 So as you are working at the radio station, and all the work that, then an activity that you had, was kind of the remnants or all of the issues regarding CPE, much of an effect, or were you able to just not pay attention to that anymore, because the surgery and everything that happened, made you to the point where it wasn't really an issue for you, Daniel Spelman ** 36:50 I think there's a lot of you sat down quite a lot. So it's sort of what you just said, like, it was very much sort of out my mind, because I was so proactive and so busy. And, and I was also building bridges through this, this program with working with special schools who deal with young people with sort of challenging lives themselves, and who have either, you know, different conditions, maybe it is Cp, maybe it's autism, I sort of built a bridge for them to come in and be a part of some projects and, and hear them get on the radio a little bit through a feature. And that was really cool. Because it then opened their eyes that oh, we can do this done used to come to the school, or Dan has something similar to what I have boy, he's, you know, interviewed a lot of famous people, which I was lucky to do before it became station manager. So I'm happier experience doing that sort of stuff like interviewing char stars and film stars, and working up and down the country, which dimension on, you know, ComiCon conventions, and sort of, you know, I got to get this high list of contacts who still keep in touch with me to this day. So I'm very fortunate with that, you know, I've got to interview my favorite band who are American, against the current, like, became friends with them. Like, to the point where, you know, they would invite me to shows even ever where I'm going to interview them, we'll just hang which was really cool. I would end up interviewing them because I'm all about content, as you already know, Michael, never waste a moment, right. But yeah, like, it was just all systems go. And, and there was also someone else at the station with a similar condition to me, with the same condition but a little bit more severe to what I had and just seeing him he was like a right hand man in the early years, you just develop his name is broad. He's an absolutely phenomenal person, and his radio knowledge. Second to none, and he's very open about me and him, you still have open conversations about CPE. So it was not like, I totally forgot about it. It was something that you know, I think it motivated me more to be like, Yeah, I can do this. Like just because, you know, I walk with a little bit of a limp doesn't don't count me out. I'll outwork anyone in the room and, and approve that, like, I was doing well, five, six meetings. In a day, I was doing a drive show. I was still doing the interview. So I'll still add it and do that. And then I was obviously creating shows with other presenters. I was doing the community events. I was, you know, a radio practitioner. Sorry, that's my cat, Hendrix making an appearance there. I was also the company we merged with at this point. And I run a radio course for them. So while I didn't run it, I was the practitioner of it. So I would teach some young people into sort of level one radio course or while I was running this radio station, and we Should I look back now? And I don't know how I know, you've just asked me how I did it. I don't know. And that's the total honest to God truth. Like, I don't know how I did it. It was a lot of fun. And I wouldn't change anything really apart from well, Michael Hingson ** 40:16 you, you basically made a decision to move forward with your life and if you will be unstoppable, but you made the decision to, to move forward. You knew how to do it. And and you did. And as you said, it was mostly out of mind, as you pointed out, a lot of it was sitting down. It's not like you were out on a construction job or anything like that working at the radio station. I don't know how many rooms that were in the, in the facility, but certainly not a lot. But there were a few but still, you were mostly not in a situation where an incredible amount of mobility was required. And you here it certainly had the mobility to do what you needed to do. Daniel Spelman ** 41:00 Yeah. Not only that, though, it's sort of, you know, even celebrities I've interviewed asked me a little bit about like, how, how can you Olympia Okay, think of like fell over or something, I would talk to him about it. And they just, they were just amazed by what I was doing. And when, like, I'll tag friends along with me. So like, if I was doing an event, and it was for the station, I had to best meet you, it had nothing really to do with the station, but would help me gain content. Just as I said before, I'm one of them people live, I'm going to the next mountains up, I'm going to pick you up with me, you know, we're going to go together strongest, that's always been a mentality for me. And so they were amazing. Kevin, my two sort of my two best mates who sort of helped definitely through sort of when things got a little bit more darker in the following months. But yeah, Kev would actually come on board with the station. And they did show we are massive nerds. And I was sort of struggling when I was station manager and just sort of more so after COVID, to be honest, it became a lot of people. It became a little bit more difficult to sort of manage, when you know, not everyone wants to be in the office. But some of those are very split where it was just that was the probably the biggest challenge when people were there a bit hesitant with COVID. And which was understandable and we kept that people want to work remotely can people want us to come in the code, but it was a very, that was probably the biggest sort of challenge. And managing that because obviously people are too in like multiple places. And you've got to be in multiple places. But yeah, that was that was a massive challenge that did then step away from the during the show in 2022. And just had to in my last couple of months at the station just had to I just felt it was the right time. I felt like it was the right time a year prior. But the station director asked me to stay on board then we I sort of said, like I need to sort of step away from from this just often focus on the backside of the sort of the station, I want to sort of delve myself, the more I was in the role, the more I just wanted to be in behind the scenes, I didn't really want to be the guy in front of the mic anymore. I felt my time had passed. And it's the same with sort of managerial things I knew, you know, I'm not going to be there forever. It was it. I'm there for a good time, not a long time. I said that in the first meeting, I'm there for a good time, not a long time. Because any managerial sort of role and comes with a shelf life and you've got all that you need to know when's the right time for you to step away. And then towards the end for me it was probably the difficult because it was a it was a passion project to this day, I loved the station and I loved everyone who's and I still love the people who were there now and what the station stands for it was just for me, I showed on the voted loyalty to the station and towards the end the last year or so that loyalty went shown back to me. And it did end quite sour but you've got to move on. I ended up going into sales, which was definitely a different extreme. And they have a very brief run brief run in as a sales exec what I absolutely loved the business, the business side of it and working with these companies, because I was sort of back at square one to a point of I don't want to do radio I want to take a little bit of a break from it but I like the whole go into meetings representing businesses marketing talk a niche for as well and do an SEO work as well. That's something that intrigued me and I wanted to know that were so I was doing a lot of business, the business and we'd like sort of broad bands and some of the biggest names in the in the UK when it comes to that sort of stuff. So I was it's not like I was working for a small company I was wearing For a major firm who had major clients, and so it was definitely interesting for the brief since I was doing that. And but that's where I think it was the sort of the, that's my cat saying, Hello, everyone. So you Michael Hingson ** 45:15 said your cat's name is Hendrix. Is that relation to Jimmy? Yet? It is so Okay. Daniel Spelman ** 45:21 Since as I told you everything is musical with me, so yeah, he's a very talkative cat for sure. And so is mine. 45:29 Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 45:30 I think I think I did is the only thing I did like, close the door. So she can't come in because otherwise we would be very disrupted. Daniel Spelman ** 45:37 Yeah. To him. He's probably wondering why I'm still like, awake. Michael Hingson ** 45:42 Why are you still trying to go to sleep there buster? Daniel Spelman ** 45:47 Basically getting told off? Yeah. Where was we? So yeah, I was doing sales. And that's where, when we were talking about before, that's where, because I was down constantly on the goal. That's where my disability came in. So I stepped away from that role. It was a you know, I love the title of a sales executive, but I stepped away for for that just because of my condition. That's where it did. I think mentally with everything I've went through towards the back end of my last position into the sales one sort of took its toll. So I then stepped away from sort of that, and went through a few different avenues, done a lot of marketing. And, you know, doing some, some other projects got back into radio. So the radio boy came back, which was nice. It went on for that long. But then setting up my own company currently, where my brother is one of the projects I'm currently working on, which is marketing and social media management, something, I've got a passion for something I've won awards in doing as well and privately, so like, that's something my brother said it was my brother's ID, and I'm not gonna take credit for it. Like he approached me and was like, you've got all these contacts, you've got this wealth of experience, I want something different. And so at the moment, but you know, it's taken a little bit longer to set up the plan that what we're looking at launching later this month. So we've got a few clients, and we've been sorting. So sorting that out of it out, obviously, we both have awesome day jobs, and which I'm sort of going into a new career now, as well as well, still doing radio and doing this. So I've got three things on the go, and which I'm enjoying being busy again, but it's also a manageable schedule. And when I was station manager, I think I look back at that now. And I think I was definitely being so young benefited, because I don't think they I was managing it at a pace that was not like obtainable, basically wouldn't, I couldn't keep going at that pace, all the time, you have to learn to slow down. So I still manage certain things as well, I've been a part of charities in Liverpool, and I've managed projects since and that's something and I'm now a mentor to a few people. So like Warhol was to me, I'm now that a few other people I mentioned they're unable for their, for their limited companies. And they're cits they come to me and I chat with them. And, and I try and advise them and stuff and what I would do or you know, just you know, if they want to throw a text at two in the morning, go, Hey, I've got this mad idea. And I know why straightaway, but I totally get it because I was there. Not that long ago where you do you have those crazy project ideas where you go, I want to do this and it's at 2am. So you've got to write it down, or you've got to tag someone to be like, or you're gonna lose it lose the trail of thought. And but yeah, that was that's pretty much my journey in the last about 18 months. Michael Hingson ** 48:52 So what do you do in radio today? Daniel Spelman ** 48:55 So I am presenting a breakfast show on CANDU FM, so I was on out 7am This morning. Okay. So that's fun. I enjoy them. And that I do that one day a week. I been sort of hosting multiple shows up and down the UK. I don't promote all of them. Because I'm COVID on a lot of stations. I've actually I think I can I can animate it to a point. I can't say what that's okay. Just recorded for an audiobook, and which was really cool. That when Michael Hingson ** 49:27 will it be published? Daniel Spelman ** 49:28 Not too sure. Yeah. Just it was the rough draft I've just recorded a few days ago. My family don't even know that that close is Michael Hingson ** 49:36 the is it? Is it a book you wrote? No, no, no, it's okay. Daniel Spelman ** 49:39 I just got asked to voice it. And it's a well known person. So I was very intrigued by that. So yeah, I've sort of enjoyed doing that. And I've continued sort of working with some of my sort of biggest contacts sort of made up and down the UK. So I'm planning on doing a little bit more with The color cones and, and the football clubs and stuff. I love soccer as using football. So yeah, I plan on doing that. And yeah, the other radio show though, is houseparty radio, which is for enough one of the lads from KCC. Life, his station, he's opened his own station. So I give some time to that. And I'm also currently talking about redoing a Dr. Show with one or two stations, it's just knowing where I'm gonna land and what's the benefit. But yeah, they went to Dr. Show is Back in sort of niggling at me, I want to do do a daily show again. So I am talking to a couple of stations as well about doing that sort of full time with them and being exclusive, but not fully exclusive to them. Because obviously, I'm not going to leave the other stations just yet. But I'm sort of, you know, getting to sort of, after being 10 years at one station, I feel like I'm in that zone right now I'm enjoying or dipping in and out of all the stations here. And all the stations operate completely different. And it's, it's very interesting. And obviously, I still have big ties with people in Liverpool and talking and being someone that, you know, I do talks as well, I've been into schools. So I went into my old school about a year ago, and want to talk to the kids there, which was, which was interesting. And, and then obviously, you know, I've got interviews and stuff that I've just recorded with some well known cosplayers and, and I've asked, being asked to do a few more podcasts like this, not like this, but like culture, live media, sort of, Michael Hingson ** 51:45 you know, having done radio, and not to the level that you did, but I was in radio, in college, and so on, and a little bit of professional radio, now doing a podcast and I've been doing this since August of 2021. The the advantage of a podcast, I suppose if you, you could say it's a lazy attitude, but you don't have some of the limitation that you have in radio. So the podcast is whatever length you choose it to be. You can choose whether you want to have sponsors and commercials and all that. But podcasting is very much from the general operation of it a lot like radio, other than some of the things that are not as restrictive, like you have to end at exactly a particular time. So something else you might think about, and podcasting can be a very interesting and very visible medium to, to be able to, to be out there for the world to see and hear. Daniel Spelman ** 52:44 Yeah, it's something I've been approached about as well. And I've been lucky that I've got these commercial contacts have made over the last 10 years have reached out to me but it's also it's a mentally I'm ready to jump back into that sort of cycle of cars that that industry people don't learn and preparation. Yeah, it's media music that that whole industry is it's such fast paced, so you can get away with it, even though it's for a few years do some different things, you know, I think I'm still only you know, 20 Yeah, I've got 10 years at one company of sockets, from, you know, being broke, to award winning, and, you know, went from not being able to walk to, you know, walk in and, and, you know, be an ambassador for you know, sticking stuff with to try to be I'm not, you know, doing as much as I would like with that charity, which is a charity that raises awareness for CPE. And so I want to give them a mention here, I'm actually be an ambassador for them. And, and they do phenomenal work. And I'm going to try and planning a visit and go and see see some of the little ones who they sort of support and they deal with kids with CP with who's got severe or mild but like a cold progressively at worst, it just depends on the spasticity, every, it's like everyone, like, everyone's different and it's it goes case by case. So not every case of CP is the same, it just varies on the person. Like if you told my doctor who gave me surgery in 2008, and I'm still out and about doing stuff, okay, I have good days, bad days. But I'm open most days quite early to do physio, or just getting the joint sort of moving and do that. And I was doing that when I was running a radio station, I would get up do excises physio, which just gave me when I was recovering and in rehab for me surgery just to sort of give myself an edge. And I try and walk as much as I can to places and I won't push me limits. I think you have to learn very quickly what your limits are. And I had this conversation with a friend of mine who's got Fibro myalgia I don't really understand that but I can sort of get the similarities of what Hi Fi thrive, where you can feel very fatigued or nowhere. So it's just sort of learning your limit It's with anything in life. And but yeah, that's sort of me in a nutshell really I just keep keep plodding along and Michael Hingson ** 55:11 there you go. Who Who have you interviewed that I might have heard up? Daniel Spelman ** 55:18 Oh, so musically or film or just shut her name off a few lists Michael Hingson ** 55:23 whoever you think I might have heard of over here. No limitations. Daniel Spelman ** 55:27 So I've music wise a style who's on track with Kanye West. I have you and I have interviewed all my mind's gone a little bit Blanca. Era McNeil, Susan, after you was in a film with Jim Carrey, Paul McGann who was in Doctor Who he actually play Doctor Who in the US, and I'd be very lucky enough to interview Matt Ryan, a great actor. And he was also in DC series have also interviewed David Tennant, who played Doctor Who and Matt Smith as well, which was really cool. And the lists and lists chart char stars, you know, Becky Hill knows but Shinnecock elven football is Steven Gerrard. I don't know if you know who he is. But he's massive. Specially in Liverpool, Luis Garcia, Sammy Huperzia. Josie Enrique, does the list goes on with football? Michael Hingson ** 56:33 What's your favorite interview that you've done? Daniel Spelman ** 56:36 Oh, that is a tough question. Oh. Oh, it is a it is a very tough one. And I'm going to pull it down to two. So I'm going to do one open coming artist. And because I've always been wanting to promote open colon talents, and especially in the UK, and one overall for me. And so the Open command talent would be brawny, who's a dear friend of mine, someone I've interviewed and we've just become friends. And really good friends. I touch even though the show at the radio station around for a little bit when I took over it, which I couldn't believe she did that. And so we are brawny for short because the amount of time she's gave me we've interviewed, you know, I've interviewed them multiple times. And my personal favorite would possibly be it has to be against the Quran just because my favorite band Dev, and I've watched him go from YouTube covers to, you know, doing stadium shows in you know, and who is that again? against the current so that, okay, so I think then New York or New Jersey based around that area, or from New Jersey, New Jersey, but based in New York or the labelers. And so they have done a solo tour in America in the UK. They've just been over to the UK. And so yeah, I think just because I've watched them, and I've saw them grow from YouTube, to where they are now, which is phenomenal. And it's great. Yeah, so when I got the call to interview them in 2019 for the first time, in Manchester, I literally about three, four hours before the show went on record, because I literally interview the style and then in the same day ensued against the Korean so that was a very weird day for me. And then, funnily enough in 2020 Going back to the Dr. Show, Chrissy who's the lead singer in the band, I just threw an email because we sort of exchanged emails when we interviewed them and he was like keep in touch because he could tell I was a genuine fan or so of what how they've developed and stuff like that. You gave me an email I reached out during COVID because of a lot of people that are just going to be able to be out on the board there'll be a perfect opportunity to sort of get some names on the show. And Chris he literally out of nowhere, so I was like yeah, let's do this. And you'll get an 11k views on YouTube within I think like three weeks a month, which was crazy for a small community radio station. And so yet it's bringing those commercial interviews and these ad lists or you know, you know open comment towns with huge followings like crazy it's got like over a million followers on Instagram alone. So I bring them to a station not in a bad way but as small as a community radio station was definitely unique and definitely attend a lot of heads up the time. And it's it's really fun when people don't expect something like that to happen and you don't say anything in it just does happen and you can surprise people and go on doing this. And that's the bull's eye thing. I like a lot of people and you must have it interview and people to do this podcast is you get solo Botsford hear people's stories and it's always about the stories. Oh, another interview I've done this year for CANDU. Well, last year now, Chris vandal etoos a four time Emmy award winning presents, presents on CBS over in America. So he's made with Dwayne Johnson, which is crazy, you know, to be friends with the rock, and his story as well. And he has sort of a similar philosophy to sort of me when it's when it's interviewing, and I'm sure you understand this, as well, as you get to hear these people's stories, and you get to take a little bit, or maybe take a little bit of something and put it into your own life on he always ends his interviews, so I twist it on him. He always asked this question, say, um, the three things you're grateful for. So I thought, you know, I've got to ask him, and at the time, he was just about to become a dad. And so yeah, they it was a very special time to to interview him, and he was Super Down to Earth. So he's definitely tough free for me. So yeah, brawny, Chris family against the current. For me. I'm probably missing people out if I am. And you're listening to this. Sorry. I do appreciate it. But yeah, for me, personally, there'll be them three. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:14 Well, that's great. Well, I'm going to thank you very much for being here. Can you believe it? We've been at this now just about a minute over an hour. So we've been having a lot of fun doing it. If people want to reach out to you maybe learn as you're starting companies and doing things, how can they do that? Daniel Spelman ** 1:01:30 So just search we'll find on Instagram producer done, I'm sure you've put links in the YouTube and on socials and stuff, feel free to click on request on the follow up, follow. Just search my name Dan Spelman. And on LinkedIn, I'm a big LinkedIn user these days. And that's how we sort of connected to Shelby. So Sheldon Sheldon, I'm gonna tell ya, big shout out to Sheldon. And so yeah, feel free to reach out on there. Or just search Luma socials on Google. There'll be contacts in there, you can have a little look at the business, the website is going to be up in the coming days, we've just took it back down to sort of change a few things because I'm a perfectionist. And the growth of those other members is out and about it. But there Yeah, launching sort of end of Jan, going into Feb. Maybe. So yeah, we've got a few sort of we're just ironed out a few things with the first few clients. So I think so. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:23 Well, cool. Well, I want to thank you for being here. And I want to thank all of you for listening out there, wherever you happen to be. Love to get your thoughts and, and we certainly would appreciate it. If you'd give us a five star rating for our episode. Today. Daniel has been a very fascinating guest and clearly is as unstoppable as it gets. And I am so grateful that he took the time to be here and that you took the time to listen. So thank you for doing that all around. If you'd like to reach out to me, you're welcome to do so you can email me at MichaelHi@accessibe.com. That's m i c h a el h i at accessibe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to our podcast page, which is www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. That's m i c h a el h i n g s o n.com/podcast. So really appreciate you all being here and listening to us. And Daniel, you're being a part of the whole conversation that we've had to have. So thank you very much for that. If you know of anyone and you listening know of anyone who might be a good guest on unstoppable mindset. Love to hear from you. We are always looking for opportunities to chat with more people. So if you have any, any ideas of people we ought to have on his guests, please let us know. And we'll get them on. And one last time again, Daniel, I want to thank you and we really appreciate you being here and taking the time to be with us today. Daniel Spelman ** 1:03:54 Thank you for having me. I think you're inspirational my whole keep doing what you're doing. You know there's not there's not a podcast out there like this. And honestly absolutely inspirational. Thank you for having me on. Cannot Michael Hingson ** 1:04:12 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.
