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Bob Wright is an Illinois guy through and through. He grew up just outside of Chicago. Interestingly enough, he decided much of Psychology was balderdash until he spent time in France. He will tell you this fascinating story. After returning to the states, he took up the subject for some of his Master’s Degree work and then beyond. Although he didn’t say it in so many words, once he began truly delving into Psychology, he was quite hooked and made aspects of it his career. He has been coaching for more than 40 years. He also understands sales and led his first sales course in 1981 for a part of Prudential Insurance where he vastly improved the performance of the group. Bob and I have quite the conversation as you will see. He even analyzes me a bit. We agreed that we will have a second episode later, but first, I will have the opportunity to talk with his wife, Judith, who is deeply involved with Bob’s work at all levels. Stay tuned. About the Guest: Bob Wright is an internationally recognized speaker, author, and educator. He’s a cutting-edge thinker, called upon by top leaders across the country. He coaches Fortune-level CEOS from coast to coast, as well as entrepreneurs. Part of what Bob loves is hitting every level, people that want to make a difference, people who are movers and shakers in the world, that’s where his sweet spot is. In fact, he was called one of the top executive coaches by Crain’s Chicago business. He led his first sales course in 1981 for Prudential Insurance, for a division of the organization that was ranked 200th out of 2000 nationally—within a month, they shot up to #16. He is also a dynamic entrepreneur who has founded several successful businesses His first venture, Human Effectiveness, was ranked tops in the country by the Mercer, as well as Arthur Andersen. He sold that business in 1994 to focus on consciousness, maximizing human performance, and the fulfillment of human potential. He has sold to Fortune level companies from coast to coast, has managed his own sales force, and was one of the first people in the country to develop a Neurolinguistic Programming Training for sales professionals. Likewise, he is the developer of The Wright Model of Human Growth and Development that we will work with this evening. This is a distinct opportunity to learn some concepts from a master who actually developed this and has helped numerous worked with it over time. Highly respected by major business figures – he has coached and trained leaders who have risen to national prominence in the areas of finance, technology, retirement, economics, compensation, governance, and the list goes on and on. Bob has trained and supported hundreds of sale professionals to higher levels of performance and satisfaction. It is common for people he supports to triple and even quintuple income while learning to have greater satisfaction and fulfillment in all areas of their lives. His cutting edge approach to selling is empowered by his revolutionary integrative model of human growth and development. Sales people he coaches find themselves enjoying life more, and succeed even in down markets. The people that he has coached and trained over these years are movers and shakers making a major difference in the world today. Ways to connect with Bob: drbobwright@judithandbob.com https://drbobwright.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! 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Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi, welcome once again to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here I am your host, Mike hingson. And today we get to talk with Dr. Bob Wright. Bob is by any standard and entrepreneur and I would say very much an unstoppable one. He has started and, and sold many businesses in his life. He actually conducted his first sales course with a division of Prudential insurance in 1981. Now we're starting to pin down his age. And he he made that division go and sales from number 200 In a few weeks to number 16. I liked that. Having been in sales, a lot of my adult life. He loves to coach CEOs and entrepreneurs. And we'll find out what else So Bob, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Dr. Bob Wright ** 02:13 Thank you so much, Michael, I'm looking forward to talking with you. Michael Hingson ** 02:18 Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. And as I said, we got to have fun doing it. So I think we'll we'll do that. Tell us a bit about tell us a little bit about the early Bob, you know, growing up and all that sort of stuff that sort of shaped where you went and where you have gone in life? Dr. Bob Wright ** 02:37 Well, yeah, I was the almost the ultimate good boy. Everything My mom wanted me to be going through high school and then college begin throwing some monkey wrenches in the story. And it wasn't until my sophomore year of college when I went to Germany. And I discovered that the narrow world of wooddale, Illinois was far from all that was the world and that the values I learned there were the only values were not the only values in the world. And it was like this. Consciousness shock. Michael Hingson ** 03:17 What a concept, right? Yeah. Dr. Bob Wright ** 03:19 Now where's wooddale? West of O'Hare. Back in the days when Midway was the busiest airport in the world. Yeah, we're about 15 miles west of O'Hare. Michael Hingson ** 03:30 I have relatives in Genoa and DeKalb. So, and I was born in Chicago, so I'm a little bit familiar with the area, but I don't think I've been to wooddale Dr. Bob Wright ** 03:41 Oh, you've probably been through it if you know, Park Road. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 03:45 I might have very well been through it. Well, I live for my first five years on the south side of Chicago 5017 Union, and it's changed a lot since we moved in 1955. So that's okay, though. Things do need to change. It makes it makes for an interesting world otherwise, so where did you go to college? Dr. Bob Wright ** 04:06 Oh, well, I started at Lawrence in Appleton, Wisconsin. Ah, I went to school in Germany. Left Lawrence came back to the quarter at the College of DuPage. west of Chicago, graduated with my bachelor's from the University of Illinois, Chicago in sociology, because that was the subject that gave me the most credits and everything else I had done in my life. And so then I went to school, in in, in France after that, and that blew my mind even further. I mean, just horrendously drew mind blew my mind even further. Because I was always looking for what I thought of as ultimate truth. And the French experience just was the mind blowing, launch in some ways of my, my my life Michael Hingson ** 05:04 a lot different than even Germany, right? Well, it was different Dr. Bob Wright ** 05:08 than Germany and I had a database. The irony is that I'm in something that people think of as psychology, positive psychology, performance psychology, I think of it as my research in my life work as optimizing adult development. And going into high school, there was this really, you know, good counselor, we thought that my friends went to see. And I was already kind of against counselors because the the social worker and the grade school my mom's friend, and she would be sitting in our kitchen crying in our coffee about boyfriends every Saturday morning. And so I was going already these people are pretty darn weird. But my friends start seeing this woman, and and she starts telling these best, brightest kids in high school that they're latent ly suicidal. And they go, Whoa, this is really sick. Oh, stuff. And so then I was rapidly against psychology. Now, the rest of that story that is public domain, is there a husband was this guidance counselor down the road, Irving Park Road, another 20 some odd miles at Lake Park High School, they were a murder suicide. He boy, so that's nailed down my assumption. This is all inland as sickos know, I'm in school in France, and I'm going to study phenomenology. But my in six months, my French wasn't good enough to understand philosophy classes. So I ended up taking psychology classes, I could understand them. They were an English, that got me into group dynamics, which led to the rest of the story that I have discovered, there are well Valid Elements of psychology. And it is really the people not the discipline. That was the problem back then. So Michael Hingson ** 07:07 they weren't all just sickos after all? I Dr. Bob Wright ** 07:11 don't think so. Either that or you joined the ranks? No, no, no, not at all. But the profession in search of validity for a long time, right, so profoundly insecure? Well, it's Michael Hingson ** 07:23 a it's a tough subject, because a lot of it is is so I'm not quite sure how to describe it. It's so nebulous, it's so much that you can't really just pin it down and define it. You're dealing with emotions, you're dealing with people's attitudes, and so on. And that's really pretty nebulous, it's really kind of hard to just define it in so many words. Yeah, Dr. Bob Wright ** 07:51 if we don't go to human experience, then we'd have nothing. But you've got to figure back in the 50s and 60s and 70s, the humanistic psychology movement was transforming businesses, or Life magazine had an issue that said, sooner or later, everybody's going to be an encounter group at their church or somewhere else. And so what what happened was, they still never tied that up to performance. And so you fast forward, and you get a guy named Goldman who bring in Oh, psychology, so wanted to be as science. And he starts out with positive psychology. He denies everything before, which is just absolutely not true. He and I are similar ages, and we grew up breathing those things. But positive psychology now has a deep research base that is becoming less and less nebulous, whether it's the emotional part with Frederick SENS Research, or his his part with other positive psychology research. So it's kind of cool, what's happening. And it just, unfortunately, doesn't include what happened before because it was so thoroughly attacked. Michael Hingson ** 08:58 Well, and it's, it's an evolutionary process, right. Yeah, you got it. Yeah. Which is, which is exactly the issue. And that's, that's true of a lot of sciences. I mean, we can go back and look at physics and look at any any of the sciences and they've evolved over the years for a long time, classical mechanics, was it everything fit Newtonian law, but then we discovered that well, it's not quite that way, especially when you get closer to the speed of light. A lot of things change, but also, attitudes and philosophies of of sciences have have changed. So what you're saying certainly is no surprise, psychology as a science, social science or whatever, is still a pretty new science by comparison. So you're Dr. Bob Wright ** 09:47 obviously a science guy more than I knew. And so, did you read Boones structures of Scientific Revolutions a long time ago. So that is where the term is. Trent was a sap perspective transformation, a new paradigm. That's yeah, he coined the term paradigm as we use it today. And he's in particular talking about the disconnect between Newtonian physics and einsteinium physics. And that gets us down to all the different paradigms, because a paradigm is a shift in knowledge. And the paradigm that psychology is wrestling with, is the shift from pathology and problems to potential and realizing making real our potential. Right. Michael Hingson ** 10:35 And again, still, that is a harder thing to quantify them what you can do with a lot of physics, we also know that Einsteinian physics doesn't go far enough, but it's what we know, or what we have known. And again, we're evolving, but in the case of what you're talking about, it's a lot harder to pin down and put an exact number two, which is what also makes it a little bit more of a challenge. And we need to learn better how to define that, and communicate it as we move forward. Dr. Bob Wright ** 11:03 Well, you know, that's the bind of pure research, but I've got a slightly different perspective on this. So what we measure our success against is the total quality of somebody's life, their relationships, their work, their personal concept, and their spiritual and their service to our world. And so in our work, now, our foundation is closing down in December, sadly, because we didn't survive COVID. But we had more than 90% of our students felt that they were living with a higher sense of purpose and spiritual integration. They tended to make more money by 30% or more in the first year of working with us. And and the divorce rate in our advanced couples was under 4%. And in the entire school, was under 9%. The last time we took a survey on that. So when if you've got the elements that typical markers of a quality of life, looking there, and they their self esteem was higher, people gave them comments that they looked better, and even commented to a lot of them that they look younger. So if you take those variables, we're now starting to find something for which everyone is reaching, whether it's better relationship, more money, more career fulfillment, or more contribution to the world, we help you be more you. And our core assumption is, then you will automatically grow in all those areas, the mistake so many disciplines make is they forget that the core element of that entire formula is the individual. And if we can help the individual optimize their self them themselves, then they are going to automatically begin shifting how they operate in those areas and get stronger and stronger in directions that are more satisfying, fulfilling, fulfilling and contributory to our world. By Michael Hingson ** 12:52 definition. Yeah. 12:54 Isn't that cool? Michael Hingson ** 12:55 Which makes a lot of sense. Well, some for you. You went on and got a doctorate and so on. But when you when you started coaching, I guess really the question is what got you into the whole environment of applied integrative psychology and coaching? What what really got you there? Okay, Dr. Bob Wright ** 13:16 so, remember, we have a totally anti psychology, right? I have a taste of what we called existential psychology and group dynamics in France. So when I came back from France, I looked for the strongest program to get more training. And it was training in, in all the existential application of Gestalt transactional analysis. And the various body works and things of the time. And I studied those, I became a trainer in those. And it was wonderful to watch people learn and grow. But you still couldn't make a lot of money that way. So I went back to school and got an MSW and I, my goal was to be a therapist, therapist, and my partner Bob Kaufman was my supervisor and my MSW. And we built a business called human effectiveness. And by the mid 80s, we were doing 300 services a week, a third of whom were psychology types. And, and so that was my retirement goal. And in addition to that, we were leading in a lot of ways in what was called employee assistance and manage psychiatric care. And we were doing consulting and training, which is where you heard the story about Prudential. And so that was kind of the way to make money doing it and get licensed because I knew I was good at helping people and I just wanted the easiest and quickest license to get and that was an MSW Michael Hingson ** 14:49 said then you got that and what did you do? Dr. Bob Wright ** 14:51 So human effectiveness was our was our business from the 1979 To 1994. Michael Hingson ** 15:02 And that was a business you started human effectiveness. Yeah. And Dr. Bob Wright ** 15:05 so we had a very unique model of therapy using individual and group off of what Bob postle called contemporary Adlerian. Therapy. And we developed that more and more and more. And we started getting higher and higher functioning clients. And our clients were moving way beyond the therapy ideal. Their lives were taking off in all the areas we've discussed. And we started that we're doing well, in 82, we hired a PhD, you have to be dissertation approved, PhD from Yale, they had him start doing consumer research, found out that people loved what they were getting one time, near the mid 80s, I had a two year waiting list. And so when we asked our clients what was going on, and they said, We love it, but you're not telling us everything they wanted to know. And my first master's, which was in communications, was helping people in a psychiatric hospital, oriented to that psychiatric hospital. And so, what what, I've always been a consumer guy, and so we started putting together seminars to help our clients understand what was going on. So that changed our model, from individual group to seminars to training them, we did more and more research and they kept telling us more and more of what they wanted. So the model eventually, included Alfred Adler, existential developmental Albert Adler's areas of life, existential principles, and developmental levels, all in an axis of consciousness, helping people grow their consciousness, awareness and responsibility in life. And so those seminars were training people, many of whom could analyze their own life situation and strategize better than licensed psychologist. So we begin, we begin going, why why aren't people getting credit for this. So that's why we started graduate school on the road. And I left the therapy metaphor in 91. We started working towards developing our model in our seminars to be more and more effective with Judith in 9495, which led to the right foundation for the realization of human potential, and the right graduate university for the realization of human potential, offering master's and doctoral degrees in transformational leadership and coaching. We even got an MBA credited. Now that is, now that the foundation is closing down at Maharishi University in Iowa. So the program goes on. But the foundation is no longer running Michael Hingson ** 17:40 it. And Judith is Dr. Bob Wright ** 17:43 Judith and I are stepping into what we think is our ultimate mission is couples, couples, and helping people come become more conscious, responsible, satisfied in service filled couples. And so we're kicking that off in January. Michael Hingson ** 17:58 And how long have you guys been together? Dr. Bob Wright ** 18:02 We got married in 81. So it's 42 years or two years? Yeah. Wow. Michael Hingson ** 18:08 Well, you have beat Karen and me by a year. But as I think I told you, she passed away last year. So we were married for two years and loved it and lots of memories. But I can appreciate the fact that you guys have made it work. And you've also worked together, which is as good as it gets. Yeah, Dr. Bob Wright ** 18:28 so so the last two books we've written together, and to understand so the last book is called battling to Bliss. The couple's Guide to 15 Common fights, what they really mean how they can bring you closer. So our previous book called transformed. We had one paragraph as we were driving back from Texas to Illinois, that we fought over for probably an hour. And Judith has this wonderful mind. And I just, I'm the one that pushes things to get done. So I said that that sentence is good enough. She says, No, that sentence doesn't work with this. I'm going to come on down it. So she wins that sentence. And she wins. She ended up winning all four sentences. But I ended up winning and moving on. So movement is more my specialty and accuracy and depth is well we both do depth is Judith. So battling to Bliss is really about people people think fights are a problem. They don't understand fights are a symptom that you're dealing in, that you're working on becoming a better stronger couple together. Michael Hingson ** 19:36 Yeah, and so there's nothing wrong with disagreeing as long as you eventually work together and recognize what you're doing and need to do. So. You're both one which is what it's really all about. Dr. Bob Wright ** 19:50 Amen. You got it. So you develop Michael Hingson ** 19:54 this thing you call the right model of human growth and development. And that's I guess what you're basically alluding to in the early 1990s? Well, I actually Dr. Bob Wright ** 20:05 had Scott started with that research in 1982. And it developed. So the first thing we did was help people vision. Now, the work from Dr. Boyd says that Case Western is that vision is way more important than goals. So we'd have people write a vision in seven areas of life and measure their progress against that every four months. And they go, Wow, man, we're growing twice as fast. But you're still not telling us everything. We said? Well, the truth of the matter is, we think of you developmentally and we're seeking to help you develop in ways that you didn't get developed are all like plants that never got perfect nourishment. And we're helping you fill in those things. And so that led to a developmental axis of consciousness for them. And then we did another round of research. And they said, we're still not telling you said anything. We said, Well, the truth of the matter is, we're existentialists. And we, we just think if you're fully present in here, now you'll learn you'll grow, and you'll become the best you you can become. And so that brought in an existential aspect about the here and now, people engaging. And it's all driven by what we call the assignment way of living, which was started by Bob postal, who was part of the Alfred Adler Institute in Chicago back in the 1970s. Michael Hingson ** 21:24 Okay, so but you developed it, and is that what you use in the the coaching that you did? And that you do? Dr. Bob Wright ** 21:33 That? Absolutely. I'm working with. I'm working with an attorney who's shifting professions now, from law to coaching. And so what I do periodically is help her understand when she has a win. How did that win, take her on a step forward in her development, and then I help her understand how that win actually can be leveraged if she will have the discipline to keep doing it. Most. There's a thing called neuroplasticity. And most of the world is a little bit over in love with it. Because thinking oh, yeah, we can automatically change No, it takes 1000s of repetitions. So help her understand a vision of what it's going to mean to consistently redo that way of doing things. She challenges unconscious limiting beliefs, because our program was pretty much done by age seven, we are living out a self fulfilling prophecy off of our early programming. If we don't do things to transform, we can learn and grow. But transforming is the challenge. Michael Hingson ** 22:39 Yeah, so what's the difference between growth and transforming? Dr. Bob Wright ** 22:45 We're working on that for the founder of an incredible Japanese coaching group called coach a and his name is Ito son. And, and so learning is knowing something I didn't know before. Growing is doing something I've never done before. But in Judas research, the people who are in touch with their deeper yearning, engage more, and they learn more, it reveals to them regulating their limiting beliefs and their skill deficits. And it also causes them to share with other people that causes them to begin challenging their limiting beliefs. And so learning and growing can be yearning, it can be learned, knowing things and doing things who would have never done we call that liberating. When you're doing things you never would have done. Transforming requires that you pray that you that you strategically do new things in the direction that will consistently challenge some of your unconscious limiting patterns. If you think about what we have our neural pathways imagine we have a neural highway. And everything we do runs along that neural highway. But we want to cut a take a shorter road from Highway A to highway B. So we go into the jungle. Well, we get into the jungle halfway and we look back, we can't even see where we've gone. To get to highway B, we may get to highway B, but we will find out how to get back to Highway A. So we're still going to be doing the same thing. So we the first level of of as we think about it of transformation, neuro transformation is going back and forth along that path enough that we can see where we've been and we can repeat it. Then we have to widen that path. And we have to turn it into a well trodden path. And eventually if it becomes a superhighway, we have transformed and we are doing things that we never could have done before. Michael Hingson ** 24:49 How do you get people to really overcome their limiting beliefs what what is it that you do as a coach that brings people maybe To that aha moment, and maybe it isn't quite so dramatic, maybe it isn't that at all, but it's more subtle, but how do you get people to the point where they recognize, oh, maybe it's not really quite what we thought, because not everybody's gonna go to France. Okay, Dr. Bob Wright ** 25:16 so first of all, none of us has ever done. So I'm still dealing with my own limiting beliefs, and, and building new neural pathways the same way. But there's a way we start is what we call an Adlerian Lifestyle Analysis, Alfred Adler helped people understand there are perceptions, the unconscious beliefs that guide us, we have empowering our perceptions, limiting beliefs, empowering beliefs, that we we have limiting beliefs is our language for the limiting perceptions in Adlerian terms. And so when we understand that most of those were installed, by the time we were seven, we can do a lifetime and Adlerian lifestyle analysis that will help you understand your early programming in a way that can empower your growth the rest of your life or inform your growth the rest of your life and your learning and ultimate transformation. Michael Hingson ** 26:15 Okay, and how do people perceive that? Dr. Bob Wright ** 26:21 Well, the first time I experienced it was in front of a room of maybe 50 therapists. And it was a demonstration by Bob postal, the Adlerian, I mentioned. And I went up front. And in about 1510 minutes, I'm bawling my eyes out, as he's basically telling me my life story in ways that were profoundly true that I had never imagined. And most, most people except the most defensive, are blown away, that it can be that easily accessed. Michael Hingson ** 26:54 So, alright, so he, he demonstrated that he knew you better than you thought he knew you and perhaps better than you knew yourself, then what? Dr. Bob Wright ** 27:05 Well, first of all, he called it like mind reading. And it's what it feels like it feels like he's talking to somebody who's doing mind reading, and Bob postal it, boiled it down to like seven questions. Your birth order is super important in how you look for affection and affirmation in life. If you're the firstborn, did you win? Did you maintain what Adler called a position of primacy? Or were you overrun by a second, third or fourth born? In which case, that's a terrible blow to your self esteem? And so, how we negotiate birth order is probably the most important element of that. And then there are other elements, like who was mom's favorite? Who was dad's favorite? And we get everybody you know, most 90 90% of people say, Oh, no, my mom and dad, they were equal. That's absolute horse manure. And so what we get to that by is who is most like dad, who was most like, mom? And if you were in the zoo, walking and looking at things who would mom who would be holding Mom's hand and who would be holding Dad's hand? And then once we get to larger families, it gets even more complex? Michael Hingson ** 28:15 How do you deal with that? And I asked that, knowing that in my family, of course, I was blind, I was the second child. And I think my brother always felt like he wasn't quite as well received, even though he was two years older. But in reality, when I look back on it, what my parents did was really worked, not to show favoritism, but they did have to do things differently with me than they did with him because he could see, and I didn't, but I think they really worked at it. But I think his perception always was that he wasn't the favorite, even though that I don't think that really was the case as I sit and analyze it even now. Dr. Bob Wright ** 29:03 Well, you know, he may not have been wrong. He might not have been got more attention. So the primary indicator of a favorite is attention. It doesn't necessarily mean for what, because you get seen more, you get more interest more, you develop a sense that you matter. And he's developing a sense that he doesn't matter. So in Adlerian terms, you may have overrun him, and that was a terrible blow to his self esteem. Michael Hingson ** 29:33 Yeah. Yeah. Even though this Oh, sure. If you want Dr. Bob Wright ** 29:38 go ahead. So how's he doing today? Michael Hingson ** 29:40 He passed away in 2015. So he died of of cancer. Dr. Bob Wright ** 29:45 How did he do in life? Well, Michael Hingson ** 29:47 fair question. He ended up working for the Customs Organization, the US customs in communications. He was married for, gosh, probably close to 40 years as well. I'm not sure that he was as happy as he would like, just in looking at it. He tended to want to be very controlling. And his wife didn't have a problem with that. But I think that I think there were some issues, but I think he did. Okay, but not great. Dr. Bob Wright ** 30:28 So you've been happier in life than he has, even though you have a profound challenge. Well, Michael Hingson ** 30:35 I think the challenge is more perceptual than in reality, but Yeah, probably. That's it. Dr. Bob Wright ** 30:41 Thanks very much. Michael Hingson ** 30:44 That's probably so. Dr. Bob Wright ** 30:47 But I also so your dad overran him. Yeah, I Michael Hingson ** 30:51 hear you. You did. Even though we even though later in life, he was in Florida, and I was in California, or in New Jersey. I think I appreciate what you're saying. Yeah. Dr. Bob Wright ** 31:05 Yeah, it's it's hard for us to accept when we start looking at these unconscious elements of what's called the family system. And and the system is there's no blame. There's no blaming. Yeah. But But who is your mom's favorite? Michael Hingson ** 31:21 Well, I'm sure that that there are those that would say it was me. I'm not, I'm not really so sure. Because the way my mom interacted with us, was was different with each of us. She had to help me learn braille again, when I was going from third to fourth grade. And she took the time to do that. But she also did take the time with my brother, but I'm sure that he would tell you that I was, Dr. Bob Wright ** 31:48 well, what was your dad's favorite? Oh, Michael Hingson ** 31:53 I'm sure that, that my dad and I spent more time together because I was interested in things that he was much more than my brother like electronics and science. So I'm sure I Dr. Bob Wright ** 32:02 was, who was murdered? Michael Hingson ** 32:06 Gee, that depends, I guess, on everything, but probably I was. Nobody ever wants to answer this, by the way, probably. But probably for a lot of reasons. I would say I was. Yeah, Dr. Bob Wright ** 32:15 pretty obviously. So we don't know what his potential would have been. Right, who got developed? And so my guess is he was actually your mom's favorite. He might very well have been. But But I think it was your mom's favorite because your mom counted on him to keep things working in the family while he was hungry, but didn't didn't know how to do anything. But please her as she was ministering to you. And as your dad was enjoying playing with you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's Michael Hingson ** 32:50 a lot of there's a lot of truth to that. Dr. Bob Wright ** 32:52 Yeah, I know. I just, it's so much fun to get out of this. Michael. Yeah. It Michael Hingson ** 32:59 makes a lot of sense to, to really look at it in the in the way that you're doing. But I think there's there's another aspect of it, and it's part of human nature, that gets to be a challenge. Because he was probably a person who felt not as happy, not as loved and didn't know how to deal with that, and maybe address it in his own life. And I learned how to do some of that, and learn how to deal with a lot of the challenges that I faced socially, and, and economically. But I think that one of the things that he never did learn was how to go back and look at himself and look at his life and grow in the same way. Yeah, Dr. Bob Wright ** 33:50 amen. Probably wasn't as inquisitive as you know, Michael Hingson ** 33:54 I'm sure he was not. That I'm very sure of. And it's it is a it's an issue because one of the things that I maintain today is that all of us can do so much more to grow. If we would spend more time even just in the evening before we go to sleep, being introspective, looking at whatever happened on a given day. And why it happened the way it did, what could we improve? What went great, what could we even have done to make what went great greater? And I know that he didn't do a lot of that, Dr. Bob Wright ** 34:28 you know, there's actually a spiritual discipline with the max handle Rosicrucians that, that goes into that. I'm not a follower of theirs, but this they call it a retro flexion or retrospect, I forget what they call it. Exactly. Because when I was in school in France, the game was the minute your head hit the pillow. You were to rewind your day in reverse to when you first woke up. Yeah, and it's incredibly challenging. It is our emotions get I get sparked off, we get to see where we had unfinished business during the day. And it took me all of pretty close to a year before I got back to a morning, and that was pretty diligence, did diligent application. And so I think you're absolutely right. Michael Hingson ** 35:23 There's a lot of value in in doing it. Because no one can teach us anything people can give us information. But we have to teach ourselves. And I've learned, even just this year, I now hate calling myself my own worst critic. When I listen to speeches and other things I always have said, I'm my own worst critic, and when in reality is the case is I'm my own best teacher, because I'm the one that can teach me. And it's always good to take a much more positive approach. And recognizing that actually helps when I go back and analyze the day and analyze the things that have gone on. Because I look for the lessons. And the lessons aren't just in the things that went wrong or the difficult things. The lessons can come from anywhere, but we have to look for them. Dr. Bob Wright ** 36:08 So you just defined the transformation of a perfectionist, perfectionist, criticized because it's the work outcome that matters. And people that are learning and growing and stepping beyond perfection. Look for the lessons. So you just described you growing, from avoiding mistakes, to feeling more and more success and satisfaction in learning and growing. Congratulations. Well, thank Michael Hingson ** 36:37 you. And even the so called Mistakes You know, there aren't they're not a mistake until it ended up being one. And again, the lesson is, what do you learn and do about it? Yeah, Dr. Bob Wright ** 36:46 but you're unusual, Michael, because you've actually taken a philosophy and applied it. A lot of people would say the same things you just said. But they don't practice it. I believe you practice it. Michael Hingson ** 36:58 And you know what? It's fun. Dr. Bob Wright ** 37:01 It says pretty clear. Yeah. You have fun way before now. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 37:05 Well, I like to look for the for fun. Personally, I think life is an adventure. For years, I've called the Internet, a treasure trove an adventure. And yeah, there's a lot of stuff. And there's a dark side. And there are all sorts of different things that go on. But there's also so much information that's out there if we bought look for it and use it. Amen. So it really, it really helps a great deal. And you know, so it's, it's worth doing well, in your case. So, you you have been so what business do you own? Now? What What's your business called? Or do you have one right now? Well, Dr. Bob Wright ** 37:47 we write business Inc has been our flowthrough business forever. But we are reemerging to the world as live right? Li ve WRI ght with Judith and Bob. That is our new go to market identity. Pool. Michael Hingson ** 38:07 That's a great name. And certainly, from a marketing standpoint, one that somebody can remember. Dr. Bob Wright ** 38:14 Well, right now we only exist online is D r B o b.com. And Dr. Judith, Bob Wright, dot com or Judith wright.com I think or at any rate, we don't have a joint website yet. We'll be launching that in December, God Willing and the creek don't rise Michael Hingson ** 38:35 well and make it accessible. And if you want help with that, I can help Dr. Bob Wright ** 38:41 you. So so cool. Cool. I'm gonna have to find out more about what you can do them. Because I really don't know, Michael Hingson ** 38:48 we can talk about that. And we can talk about ways to do it. And it's and it's something that that you should do. Because the reality is what most people don't realize is that the cost of doing business should really make sure that inclusion is part of it. You know, I when looking for jobs and talking to many, I'll just use blind people as an example. We've had companies say but I can't buy a screen reader for you. That's not in our budget. Well, you know, sure it is you buy computer monitors for everyone. I don't need a monitor. But I do need a screen reader. Inclusion ought to be part of the cost of doing business. Dr. Bob Wright ** 39:26 Well, which is why you're going to be our consultants. So we our desire is to have our work available in all languages. We're going to be putting out our couples book the heart of the fight in Spanish. The heart of the fight reached number one nonfiction best seller in China, Judas soft addictions solution is, as of our last knowledge, number 10 self help in China. And so the languages aren't just words and spoken are they but there's I mean, there's there's what do you call blind accessibility? Michael? Michael Hingson ** 40:06 Well, there are a couple of ways to do something like that. A lot of it is just doing the right things on on your website, or when you produce a book, if you have graphs, they should and pictures, they should be defined. You can do an electronic version, you can do an audio version. And there are ways also to put the book in Braille. And again, we can we can certainly talk about that. Well, Dr. Bob Wright ** 40:28 I'm zipping myself an email to circle back with you on that. So let's keep going with what you've got today. Michael Hingson ** 40:36 Well, definitely one thing I need to say, because I was looking for when I was getting ready for now, is I would like to have pictures of your book covers that we can put in the cover notes so that people can go off and find them later. Dr. Bob Wright ** 40:51 We'll get it. Perfect. Michael Hingson ** 40:53 Well, tell me a little bit more about you and coaching. What ultimately do people get out of what you do? After a question, Dr. Bob Wright ** 41:07 you know, I'm gonna go back a little further, we get everybody knows we get what we put into things. Yeah. And so to get Michael Hingson ** 41:16 the most out of coke, good psychological answer, go ahead. Dr. Bob Wright ** 41:19 Well, I'm actually going to answer it. I appreciate the work up to I'm gonna work up to it. So the investment is time, money and personal upset. The price most people are not willing to pay is the person will upset we have to do to stretch beyond our own serious limit deeper mental limitations. And when we do that, for me, I had a lot of limiting beliefs about money. I could give you stories, we talked about the mythology rules, myths and beliefs about money when I looked growing up, my dad's brothers, who had way more money than we had, didn't have a marriage as good as my dad's marriage. And one of my dad's brothers was a particular jerk. And he was the wealthiest of them. And so I draw this conclusion from early on in life, because we all grew up within miles of each other, or blocks, actually, that it's either money or relationship. So a limiting belief I've had to challenge forever, is money and relationship. And fortunately, I'm making some progress on that and intend to make even more before I'm done. Well, Michael Hingson ** 42:37 it's interesting. People think that if they have a lot of money, they're successful, and they're happy. And what pops into my mind? And I'm not going to try to get political here. But what pops into my mind is Donald Trump, I wonder how happy he really is. Dr. Bob Wright ** 42:54 You know, we can actually dive right into the happiness things. First of all, there's a lot of research on it that would show that he doesn't have the characteristics. But that's another story. But right, I hear you. But I think everybody has a formula for happiness, most of them are wrong. Yeah. And I think the good fortune in my relationship foundation is relationship. You know that happiness research says, the biggest variable is learning and growing. The happiest people are engaged in learning and growing. There, they have New Horizons coming up, that they can learn and grow together and a couple or whatever they're doing, but they learn and grow. That's happiest. Michael Hingson ** 43:33 That's the most successful thing that one can do. And it is all about learning and growing, and wanting to learn and grow. And I think he pointed out very well, a lot of people will provide lip service to a lot of this. But the reality is, they're not really growing. It's just a lot of talk. Habits are hard to break it. I've heard all sorts of different numbers about how many times you need to do something to change a habit. But still, ultimately, it doesn't happen until you can, not only intellectually but emotionally recognize that the change needs to happen and then do it. Dr. Bob Wright ** 44:15 So that's that's the end the cost. So Judas seminal work on soft addictions was looking at the cost that turned out causes a lot of people to take on the habits. However, a habit is a behavior to order to change the deeper level behind that habit. Because they have, it's always doing something for us in service of a limiting belief. And so a limiting habits because we remember two kinds of beliefs, two kinds of habits, empowering and disempowering. And so it's really important to understand, if I really want to learn and grow to the max, I have to go through the discomfort of not just changing the habit, but changing by myself my thoughts, feelings and actions at the foundational level Michael Hingson ** 44:59 and that's The cost. Yes, sir. And it's it's not as expensive as one might think, if you really apply it and do it. But the problem is, so many of us don't want to do that, because we're just, I hate hearing while I'm, you know, people are in their comfort zone, they don't want to change. We talk about change all the time. But I think people don't want to change I think we we are brought up to just like our comfort zones and not wanting to change, we don't do what we talked about before retrospection or introspection, that's too much work. And so we we don't get taught by others nearly as much as we should. The real value of change, but change is all around us. And change is going to be everywhere. I after September 11, I kept hearing, we got to get back to normal, we got to get back to doing things the normal way. And I bristled at that. And it took me a little while to understand why I was so upset with it. But I finally realized, normal will never be the same. Again, we can't get back to normal because if we do, we're going to have the same thing. And we will have learned absolutely nothing. Even with a pandemic, I hear about getting back to normal, but normal will never be the same again, the Dr. Bob Wright ** 46:17 problem that you're getting it from me that I think about with that usually is that normal is is average, and none of us really want to be average, we want to be better than normal. So why would we want to get back to normal when we still haven't hit our potential? Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 46:36 But we're not thinking about that. And we haven't learned to think in that way. Until we Dr. Bob Wright ** 46:41 understand Judith research. So there's yearning, engaging, and regulating seeing where my limitations come in. Then liberating challenging those limitations. It's so challenging those limitations, and then re matrixing. And then I have to keep stretching myself towards the new, further goals. That forced me to look beyond my limiting beliefs, because they're always there. And they're always are rising beyond them. Michael Hingson ** 47:07 How do we get people to be able to do that? Dr. Bob Wright ** 47:10 I don't, we don't get people to do anything. It's all about investment. Will they pay the price? Spend the time reading the money, what they need to do? I was talking to a guy today who's ultra ultra wealthy, who started out with my former partner. And he would never have been able to pay my partner's rates today. And I said, You mean, you wouldn't have charged it on your credit card at least to find out? You know, what he could do for you? And so the people that I see that really want it, some people just charge it on the credit card, but they don't do it. Others? Do, they charge it on the credit card, and they've got that credit card paid off and are able to really fly with the overtime? Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 48:00 so and I was delivered and asking the question the way I did, but it isn't how do we get people to do things? What is it that will make people understand that they need to change? I mean, you've been coaching a long time. And I know there's not one key but what, what, more often than not is the trigger that make people go, Ah, I gotta really think more about this. Dr. Bob Wright ** 48:27 You know, there are a lot of things in life traumas, car accidents, deaths, losses, that move people into that. There's a thing called a sociopath is sociopaths, not wanting to get divorced, will sometimes start looking at themselves for the first time. And so but but I think that, that Adlerian analysis, when people understand that there is an objective way to look at who they are today, it's your strengths and your weaknesses, as revealed by that lifestyle analysis we started playing with with you, then as you understand that there really is a way to do it, and it is systematic and reproducible, then the game starts really shifting, but most of the world doesn't believe it's possible because so many people are selling so much horse manure. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 49:21 And we haven't learned to separate all the negative negativity in as you said, the horsemen or from from the positive stuff, we, we just haven't really learned how to do that and the people who have can really start to deal with it. One of the things that I have experienced over the past several years, especially with the pandemic is that for years I would travel and speak and tell people about my story and people said, well, you're blind. Of course you didn't know what happened. I point out well, the airplane had 18 floors above us on the other side of the building I got to tell you, nobody knew Superman and X ray vision are fictitious. Right? Well, but then the the other part about it is that what I realized over time was that the reason I wasn't afraid was that I prepared. I learned all about the World Trade Center, I learned what the emergency evacuation procedures were, I learned why they were as they were. And so when something actually happened, I was prepared for it. I didn't need to worry about reading signs. And if I had been in the building alone, I would have just been able to evacuate. But I wasn't alone. And we got some guests out. And then a colleague who was in from our corporate office, David Frank, and I went to the stairs, and we started down. But the reality is that what I learned was that for me, I, in fact, was not talking about why I wasn't afraid. And I didn't teach people how to learn to control here. So we're writing a book about that. And, and so I'm, I'm realizing that what I can help people do is recognize that you can learn to control fear, it's not that it's going to go away. And if you tell me, you're never afraid, I won't buy it. But you can learn to use fear in a powerful way, rather than letting it as I put it, blind you or overwhelm you, Dr. Bob Wright ** 51:27 by preparing as you prepared the primary formula. First of all, we don't control it. But by preparing it doesn't grip us at the same level. We have pathways that we've already created. So you had created those pathways inside of yourself. And so sure you were afraid, but you had the fear motivating you along pathways for which you had prepared. Michael Hingson ** 51:51 That's right. Help others. That's right. And we did and at one point going down the stairs, David panicked and said, Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here and then and I just snapped at him. I'd love to joke about it and say, since I have a secondary teaching credential, I took that secret course voice 101 How to yell at students but you know, the the reality is that that what I did it I just snapped at David. I said, stop it, David, if Rosella and I can go down the stairs, so can you. And after that, he said, I'm going to I got to take my mind off of what's going on. And he walked the floor below me, went all the way down the stairs, he shouted up to me what he was seeing on the stairs. Now, did I need David to do that? No. But I knew that it would help David be more comfortable. But it had another effect, which again, was something that I figured out later. And that is that, as David was shouting up, hey, I'm at the 44th floor. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is, we're not going to stop we're going on down. People above us. And below us. Many, many floors hurt him. And he gave them something to focus on. And I think that he did so much, not even thinking about it or realizing it to help people not panic as we went down the stairs, which was so cool. Oh, I Dr. Bob Wright ** 53:07 just love it. So let's but let's go back. So, So fear is the primary the most basic emotion if you stay alive, sure. So you were afraid for him, not for you, but for him. And so you slapped him out of it. So you harvest your anger. So fear, fear, hurt, anger, sadness, and joy are the critical emotions that are fully foundational emotions. And so you have a relationship with your fear as few of us but in some ways, maybe. And you actually were able to harness anger as the crossover emotion between fear and joy. So you kept him alive, harnessing your anger to slap him out of it. And he became the leader he could become. Yeah. And needed. Michael Hingson ** 53:56 Right. Well, and that's it's part of the story that that I think is he's such an unsung hero and what happened on September 11, because I know he had to keep so many people focused because they had someone to focus on. And someone who they could hear who was all right, no matter where they were on the stairs. Somebody else was okay, somewhere. Dr. Bob Wright ** 54:21 So first of all, he was a leader right in relationship to you, Michael Hingson ** 54:25 by definition. Well, in some ways, yeah. Dr. Bob Wright ** 54:29 So you slapped him back into his leadership mode. And even though you didn't need it, he started leaving you in his own mind, but he was actually leaving everybody down those Michael Hingson ** 54:40 steps. He was, you know, that was one of the things that he did his he was only in for the day from our corporate office. But but he but you know, the two of us, between us there were a lot of ways people also said to me later, we followed you down the stairs because we heard you praising your dog and We heard you staying calm. So we were calm. We followed you. Yeah. So we, in a in a very well, unpredictable isn't the right word but a very subtle way we the two of us really helped a lot of people. Oh Dr. Bob Wright ** 55:15 my god, you guys formed the most amazing impromptu leadership team. Michael Hingson ** 55:19 Right. Holy cow. I Dr. Bob Wright ** 55:21 love it. Yeah. Well, isn't that cool? Oh, it's beyond cool. That is way beyond Cool. Michael Hingson ** 55:27 Well, this has been fun. We need to do it again. And we need to get Judith involved. So we got to do Dr. Bob Wright ** 55:33 another one of these. Absolutely looking forward to it. But Michael Hingson ** 55:37 I really appreciate you being here. And I want to thank you and I want to thank you all for listening to us today. I hope that you enjoyed it. And and you heard Bob analyze me a little bit and it was a lot of fun and No, no problem at all. So we'll have to do more of it and and have another time together which I think would be fun. But I want to thank you for listening to us. Love to hear your comments. Please reach out. You can reach me Mike hingson at and my email address is Michael h i m i c h a e l h i at accessiBe A c c e s s i b e.com. Michael h i at accessibe.com Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael Hingson m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com/podcast love to get your thoughts please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to us. We value that and really appreciate all that you have to say. Bob if people want to reach out to you how do they do that? Dr. Bob Wright ** 56:37 Well my website for now until we put them all together is Bob Wrightdot com or D r. B o b W r i g h t dot com My email, which is easier right now we're in transition. The new company, as you heard will be live right with Judith and Bob. But right now D r. B, o b at Judith and bob.com D R B O B at J U D I T A N D B .com. Cool. Michael Hingson ** 57:04 Well, thanks again for doing this. It has been fun. And let us definitely set up another time and do another one of these. Dr. Bob Wright ** 57:13 We've got more to talk about in so many ways, sooner than later while we're still putting together the web universe. Michael Hingson ** 57:20 Perfect. Glad to do it. Well, thanks again for being here. Dr. Bob Wright ** 57:23 Thank you so much. **Michael Hingson ** 57:28 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. 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