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Marsha Vanwynsberghe grew up in Ontario Canada and still lives there today. I met her a few months ago when I was invited to be a guest on her podcast, Own Your Choices Own Your Life. My team at Amplifyou, located in British Columbia, arranged my appearance and then, as is only fair, I asked them to help get Marsha to join me on Unstoppable Mindset. We had a fabulous conversation discussing everything from why more people don’t share their own stories to how we, Marsha and I, learned to tell our own stories and how we help others to grow as they discover more about themselves. Marsha worked for a company for some 26 years while, as she discovered, learned a lot about coaching. She also faced her own life challenges as she will tell us. In 2020 the company employing her closed its doors. By that time Marsha realized how much coaching of others she already was doing. She started her own coaching program. As I said, she also has been operating her own podcasts which I urge you to find, of course after listening to Unstoppable Mindset. Marsha shows us the value of learning about facing our own inner selves and learning to tell our own stories. She discusses how many of her clients, through discussing their own experiences, have become more confident and how they have learned to be better persons in their own skins. About the Guest: Marsha Vanwynsberghe — Storytelling NLP Trainer, Speaker, Publisher & Author, 2xs Podcaster Marsha is the 6-time Bestselling Author of “When She Stopped Asking Why”. She shares her lessons as a parent who dealt with teen substance abuse that tore her family unit apart. Marsha has been published 7xs, most recently with her co-platform, Every Body Holds A Story, and she is on a mission to continue to help women and men to speak, share and publish their stories. Through her tools, OUTSPOKEN NLP certification, programs, coaching, and podcast, Marsha teaches the power of Radical Responsibility and Owning Your Choices in your own life. She empowers people how to heal and own their stories, be conscious leaders and build platform businesses that create massive impact. Ways to connect with Marsha: Website: https://www.marshavanw.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marshavanw/ Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/marsha.vanwynsberghe Linkedin: NLP Trainer, Storytelling Trainer, Speaker, Podcaster, Author - Marsha Vanwynsberghe Coaching | LinkedIn Podcast Link: Own Your Choices Own Your Life https://apple.co/3h2Jcti YouTube: https://bit.ly/3Dmk75q TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@marshavanw About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes
Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi all and welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity in the unexpected meet and who knows what else? Oh, that's the unexpected part. Sorry. Anyway, we're really glad you're here. And today, we get to have the opportunity to chat with a person who is a storytelling NLP trainer, a best selling author, a speaker, and a 2x s podcaster, among other things. And on top of that, she's very open about telling stories, which is great. I love people who want to tell stories. I've been in sales for a long time, and I learned that the best salespeople know how to tell good, true stories. That's another story, but we won't worry about it right now. But anyway, I'd like you all to meet Marsha Vanwynsberghe. My screen reader pronounced van winchburgh. But she was impressed by that it was pretty close. But it's van Weinsberg. And Marcia, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 02:17 Thank you so much for having me, Michael, I'm thrilled to be here. Well, it's Michael Hingson ** 02:21 an honor to have you and I was on marshes podcast on your choice on your life. And that was a lot of fun. And I told her that the price for me being on was that she had to come on unstoppable mindset. And she was willing. So here we are, Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 02:36 well, I jumped at the invitation I just jumped Michael Hingson ** 02:40 Well, it's fun, and it's great to share. And it's it's great to get to know people and and get to know them even more when we get to do it the other way. And hopefully we'll do more things together as well. And love that. I would absolutely love that. Well tell us a little bit about kind of the early Marsha growing up and all that sort of stuff. It's always a great place to start. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 02:59 It is the early Marsha. So I was born in 1970. And I say that because um, you know, in that time and era, kids were to be seen and not heard. Yeah, I was very, I was very outspoken as a child. And I have pretty strong personality. And a I use my voice a lot. And back then we used to tell or we used to hear that, again, be seen and not heard. And I often think back to you know if if young girls, we can tell them that those are leadership skills and not bossy skills. It's there's a lot of things that I learned as a child, but I mean, I grew up with a family who we moved a few times. And my dad he started a business that continued to grow. So I really grew up around entrepreneurship, and finding and carving your own way and building resiliency. You know, working from a young age I was my first jobs were at 1213. So I grew up in that era of like, work hard. That mindset. Michael Hingson ** 04:12 Where did you Where were you born and where did you come from? Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 04:15 I was born in Chatham, Ontario. Yep. And then we moved up near a it's kind of farm area but near Woodstock Tillsonburg area for people who might know, in Ontario and I've lived it. I've been in Ontario my whole life. But that's where I was. I was born in the city and then I was moved to a farm which I really did not like my parents for that at the time. I didn't know it, but honestly the best move we ever did, but then I've lived within that vicinity for since then. Michael Hingson ** 04:49 Didn't you want a pony? I Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 04:51 did not. I did not. I worked in tobacco as a kid. I was not. I was definitely I had farm jobs I was I was a hard worker. Michael Hingson ** 05:04 Well, I suppose the benefit is that you learned to be a hard worker. And that's a good thing, although tobacco but of course that was then this is now. So it's a whole lot different environment. So very Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 05:17 different environment now, like that was definitely what we did then, for jobs. But I also at the same time it put me through school, that's how I paid for school, and I was able to, you know, go with that time. But yeah, it's a very different era, that is not something that you see very much of anymore, thank goodness, it's still there. But as we'll see it very much. Michael Hingson ** 05:38 I love to collect and listen to old radio shows from the 30s 40s and 50s. And so on one of the shows, I really like a lot is dragnet. And the reason I mentioned that is that dragnet for a while in the 50s, was sponsored by Fatima cigarettes. And it was fascinating listening to the commercials, statistics, prove Fatima cigarettes are better for you, and more like than any other cigarette, and of course, that's all they would ever say, Where are the statistics? But you know, that was advertising back then, too. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 06:13 It was advertising. It makes me nervous when you hear things like that, like the things that we thought were okay, not even okay, but that they were good for us. Yeah, we're not obviously not. Michael Hingson ** 06:25 I think at the same time today, some people would say, well, we should get rid of all that stuff. We shouldn't allow that. It's just not true. And the reality is, my belief is no, we shouldn't it's part of our history. And we need to recognize from whence we came. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 06:39 I think that's how we learn lessons. And we move forward. I mean, it's not perfect. There's still definitely a lot of issues, even health wise that I see now. But no, I agree with you. I don't think I think that is part of history. I think that is part of of history and what we walked through, and I mean, hopefully we continue to learn and do better, right and do better and make different choices, etc. But that's definitely what marketing was, then. Michael Hingson ** 07:08 Yeah, and it still is somewhat today, there's more than anything fear in marketing, Oh, me, sure you buy our car warranty service before your check engine light goes on, and just so many different things, we, we still have a lot of things to address at some point, although that isn't really necessarily being dishonest, but we still use fear a lot. And politicians use fear so much to completely distort the reality of what we ought to be doing, which is to analyze what they say, for ourselves, rather than just living in fear. And oh, someone said, this is true. So it must be so I Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 07:48 love that you said that. I really do. Because I feel like in some sense. We're losing the I don't want to say it's the ability because it's not the ability, but we're losing the practice of like distorted thinking and asking questions. And it's just, it's not to disagree, but I think that we should be asking questions and, and asking for, you know, doing some of our own research and looking and, and not just not just taking the advice without asking any questions. Yeah. And that's Michael Hingson ** 08:23 the real issue. And, and just the whole art of conversation seems to have gone by the, by the wayside in so many ways, especially with, and I'm not going to get too political, but a lot of the politicians all around, is it's all about trust me Do as I say not as I do. And we're encouraged not to ask questions, which is so unfortunate. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 08:47 It's scary. Actually. I think it's actually scary. Because I think that I think anytime that I am encouraged or questioned not to ask questions. If I go back to my nature, as I talked when I was younger, then that's the first thing I do. Yes. Very first thing I do. I'm like, huh, that doesn't feel right. That's Michael Hingson ** 09:07 and, you know, we, we let we let some people just steer us so much one of my favorite gripes of late is weather people out here in California. In May and June, we had a lot of marine layers and a lot of clouds and so on. So people were always complaining, the weather prognosticators were complaining about May gray and June gloom. Will it ever end? Yet? The reality is it kept the temperatures down. Now we're getting away from all of that. And we're up at like 95 or 96 Fahrenheit today. We were yesterday as well. And oh, what's happening? Now we're starting to see wildfires and we're hearing about why we have wildfires. And we're going to be in the fire season. And isn't that horrible? Well, you wished You wished it all on us? Because you didn't like may grand June gloom. I mean, we can't please anybody anymore. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 10:05 No. And it's interesting because I always like, I think, to look to go back to gratitude in some way, shape or form, as a Canadian who literally only has like three to four months a year that are nice, where it's warm. I mean, I couldn't even imagine being upset about made like, yeah, it's just perspective, right? It's a perspective, I look for the things to be grateful for. Michael Hingson ** 10:29 Yeah. And you know, what, the May grand June Gloom did keep things cool. Hardly any fires. I heard on the news this morning. There were four, although relatively small, and they were caught quickly, because we're getting better at dealing with it here. Small wildfires that helicopters and tankers dealt with very quickly. But nevertheless, now we're seeing it. And it's so unfortunate, we can't, we can never be satisfied. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 10:59 No, and I actually we don't have a lot of experience that within Ontario, where I live like other parts of Canada do. But this year, we definitely got the effects of the what we were surrounded by wildfires and the like, not literally, but the smoke came in. And we probably had about two weeks where, you know, it was yellow skies, it was hard to breathe. It had moments where it was really challenging. So it really did give a perspective of you know, I had people here who were saying like, this is just absolutely horrible. And like, it's not great, but I mean, we could be in the fire, like, yeah, not like it's still I can still go outside. It's still safe. It's not ideal, but I guess my brain, I'm looking at it going. I mean, I'm not in the fire. So it could be much worse. Michael Hingson ** 11:46 Do we know where the fires came from? And we had them on both Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 11:50 sides. We had them on our east coast. So in Nova Scotia had, and then Calgary has a really bad beginning of May. So they kind of came from both ways. Michael Hingson ** 12:03 Do we know what caused them yet? Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 12:05 Nope. Nothing I've heard. Michael Hingson ** 12:09 That's unfortunate. But, you know, the other side of it is was it was it really warm? Was that also part of it? Well, Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 12:15 I watched the interview, it was interesting, because I did watch with a lot of friends who were firefighters and I watched an interview with a firefighter who said that we had very like our snow was we had a very heavy winter, and the snow was gone early April. And then we had a lot of rain the beginning of April. And then it got really hot for about two weeks, and then it got dry, super dry. And it was just the perfect condition. They said it's absolutely a perfect condition for it to happen. So I think that's I don't remember a year like this that we sub assuming that was part of it. Michael Hingson ** 12:51 See down here with all of the marine layers and so on, and the fact that I don't know whether it's all gone, but as of the beginning of July, there was still snow on the ground in some parts of California, like the, the mountain areas and so on. And we didn't have hot, dry May, or mostly all we had no hot dry June. So now we're starting to see it. And I can understand that. And that would and I was always wondering, well, why did Canada get the fires that it did that sent the smoke everywhere? But it makes sense with what you're describing? Yeah, very similar Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 13:29 to what you said, like we ended up it was very, very hot in the US, not it not normal at all. And then we had no rain until almost the end of May, early June. So it was very, it was very strange spring for us. Now we had lots of rain since then. But it's okay. It's like actually cleared up there to be honest. So I take it again, it's perspective. Michael Hingson ** 13:51 It is. It's all about perspective, which makes a lot of sense. Well, so getting back to you and all that. So you went to college. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 14:01 I went to university here and I actually took I became a registered Kinesiologist. So I worked and post physical rehab for about 28 years. And over the last couple of years before I was done in that career, which ended very abruptly during 2020 and never came back until like probably eight or nine months later. And by that I knew the business had pretty much dissolved itself. And so I did that for I spent about 20 years and I did love it. I like the problem solving, like the thinking and the helping people. I had some people we were learning how to walk again, like that week post recovering from surgery. And then really as that time wore on, and my life was walking through some different challenges. Then I started to work into a space of like what Learning how to share stories and navigate a really difficult time. And so when the pandemic came, I actually just pivoted, went right into coaching online and supporting people online. And I felt like it had been like a complete out of nowhere. But it hadn't. I mean, out of the 20 years in working with physical rehab, I did a lot of coaching, I had to do an awful lot of coaching and supporting with people. So it was very similar. Michael Hingson ** 15:30 So when did he start involving yourself in the whole concept of NLP and bringing that into what you did. So Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 15:37 I actually did things very backwards. I, if I'll take it back to a little bit, about 1012 years ago, we started to experience teen substance abuse, I found my world get really, really small, and I lost my voice didn't know how to use it. And I really started to do a lot of work to learn how to, you know, reframe my thoughts and catch my what I was thinking and the words that I was saying, for probably three years, I was doing the beginning pieces of NLP without ever knowing that was NLP, I had no idea. And in 2020, it crossed my path. And I looked at it and when that's interesting, there was something about it that was intriguing to me, is learning to understand the power of my thoughts and how I my brain works and how to get it to my thoughts to actually support me and what I am creating. And what I want to do. The other piece that really intrigued me with NLP was that the way it was taught for me was that there was a lot of ways to support myself in healing. And I say that because I really didn't understand how we hold on to so much. I mean, trauma stress in our tissues in our body, and we push that down and we carry it for years, the LP tools helped me to really start to learn how to release that. And that helped me to work through some of the healing. So had I learned that earlier, I think that it would have actually really supported me earlier. But we all know that the teacher comes when we're ready, and I probably wouldn't have been ready, and I probably wouldn't have seen it, and I wouldn't have understood it. So it all happened in the timing that it was meant to happen. Michael Hingson ** 17:24 He told me a little bit about what NLP is what it stands for, and all of that, especially for those who who may not be very knowledgeable about it. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 17:33 Absolutely. It is called neuro linguistic programming. It's really the so neuro how we bring in our information, we all bring it into a number of our different senses. The linguistic is like the language, the words that we speak, the programs that we speak, how we be are able to take in that information and like delete, distort, generalize, put it together. And then the programs is really how we all function. Most of us, this is how it works. Our conscious mind is only responsible for like 5% of our thoughts, our beliefs, our decisions. And we set our goal with our conscious mind. Our subconscious mind is like the wheel that's never stopping. It's running on autopilot, nonstop. And most of us, we go into this space, this learning space, personal development space, helping others, we try and set goals for ourselves. And we do it with 5% of our capacity. But we're never addressing the stories, the limiting beliefs, the things that we have, that we're holding on to that keep blocking us. And then what happens is, is that you set a goal, you work like crazy to get to it. And you might just find fall shy of it. Or if you do achieve it, but you don't believe that you're worthy of receiving it. You'll self sabotage, you'll lose it you will keep on this cycle of always trying to strive and achieve more. And as you do that, it's just it, we put ourselves on that hamster wheel nonstop. And really, it's not the goal. That's the problem. It's Do we believe in ourselves to achieve the goal that is really what we want to work towards. And with so many of us who again, we've carried these stories in our bodies for so long. You can't just work harder to make something happen. It's sometimes you have to go backwards and figure out what it is that has been holding you back so that you can actually move towards your goals in a more aligned and effortless manner. Michael Hingson ** 19:46 One of the things that I find often and I've worked to get away from this but is that we don't tend to do much introspection, especially on a daily basis. We don't take Take time at the end of the day to look at what happened. Not and I don't like to use the word fail, because I think it's all about learning experiences. But what didn't go as well as it could? How do I make it better next time? What went really well? And what can I do to even improve that, and really pondering and thinking about what happened in the course of the day, and we don't, we don't do that we don't talk to ourselves, we don't talk with ourselves. And we really just figure Oh, I don't have time I got too much other stuff to do. So listening to you describe NLP really does in part go back to you've got to be your own best teacher and really learn how to do these things. I Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 20:40 couldn't agree with you more I really couldn't. I think this is the big thing is that we're on a journey of always learning to lead ourselves. That's what I believe. I think that we're learning always learning to lead ourselves. And one of the number one premise of NLP is to live out cause in your life. And that is, we can either live at cause or live in effect. When we live in effect. We are in a space in a mindset of victim mindset, anger, blame, resentment, all of those emotions. I lived there for a really long time. I think all of us at one point in their life have lived there. But when we stay there, we don't. We don't create change. When we live at cause we come to a space of saying like, how can that introspection you're talking about? How can I, you know, look at what went well, today? What's not going well? And one of the first things I'll do, I have moments sometimes where I'm like, well, Marsha, I'm really not really proud of how you're behaving right now, or what is going on with you acting this way. And it almost always comes down to if I'm completely honest, I have a moment of introspection, and I'm like, Okay, wow, you're not doing the things that you need to take care of you. You are not putting the boundaries in place, you're not getting the rest. Okay, so now how can we put that plan in place, and it's like a calibration that comes back to regularly being in that space of taking responsibility for myself, so that I can best lead myself, never about perfection. But there is I'm in a constant conversation with myself all day long. And when things are going right, when I could maybe do something differently, when I'm working to, you know, maybe celebrate something that I'm doing that is a challenge. I think that that piece of self awareness and introspection, is I don't want to call it a lost art. But it's not something that we're making time for on a continuum. Michael Hingson ** 22:42 Yeah, we're not at all. I love to, to joke and tell people, you know, when we talk about talking to ourselves, and so on and say, Well, do you get answers? When the reality is, of course, that the more we do, the more we do it, the more we will get answers. And the one I'm going to worry is when I don't get an answer. Yes, Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 23:03 yes, I'm with you. I am with you on that. Michael Hingson ** 23:08 Because we are Yeah, well, we really need to learn to communicate with our heart with ourselves and, and understand, as I have learned to tell people, I used to say I'm my own worst critic. And I've learned that's a horrible thing to say, it's really I'm my own best teacher, because I'm the only one who can really teach me other people can advise and give me information, but I'm the one that has to learn it. And I'm the one that has to teach it to me. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 23:36 I love that you've said that. Because I think that that's a really powerful reframe. And I think that's noticing that comes from a lot of the NLP training is learning how to reframe thoughts. But that's a really powerful reframe, because I have called myself my own worst critic for most of my life. I have and and it's interesting because, you know, there's, there's, there is an advantage, they do want to share one thing quickly, because in the area that I work in, where I help people with vulnerable stories, how to share, show them set, like show up, be seen user voice, one of the biggest things people are constantly afraid of, I would say one of the number one fears is what will people think of me? It's It's amazing. It is the number one fear, what will people think of me? And I often ask people like, well, what are some of the thoughts that you have about yourself? What do you say about yourself? Because I think when we really break it down, there's no one who's criticizing us nearly as bad as what we're doing to ourselves. And so when you start to see that, it's like, Wait, why am I giving all of this energy to what everyone else is saying? When really, I spend 24/7 with myself and my thoughts and what I'm saying to myself is never going to help me move forward. So that's the first piece of it. The second piece is that I think, again, my opinion but ever Every relationship that we build outside of ourselves comes from us first. So I can't be a really nice, I genuinely believe this, I can't go out and be a very nice human to everyone else and be an absolute piece of garbage to myself, because that is it's not authentic, that's not authentic at all. And so I think that if you want to create change in your life, even externally, with relationships, friends, whatever that is, it really does start with learning how to be a better human to yourself. Michael Hingson ** 25:34 Yeah, and you've got to learn to like yourself, and if you don't, then find out why. And it's okay to find out why. And the reality is own ultimately, people can make observations to you, but only you can really tell you why the two of you aren't getting along. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 25:54 Because I'm my best teacher, I love it. You said that I just, that's a beautiful reframe week, and we can be our best teacher and I am with you in the sense that I actually don't, I rarely use the word failure, because I don't like the connotation with it. Because I think everything is teaching us something. And we get to look at that is that well, that taught me something. Now, if I choose to make the same choice over and over and over, and I'm angry with everyone else in my life, there comes a point where I have to recognize that I'm the common denominator. So what can I do differently? How can I choose differently? How can I surround myself with different people? And then I'm learning the lessons that I'm here to learn. But I really think that we're on a constant cycle of learning. Michael Hingson ** 26:43 I love Albert Einstein's definition of insanity, which is that people who do the same thing the same way every time and expect a different result, certainly are not all there. No. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 26:57 And I mean, I listen, I've caught myself, there have been many times in my life where I've caught myself, and I'm frustrated with something or something that's happening. And it will be like, Wait, this is the exact same response that happens every single time. Yeah. And that's when it's like, no, so why would I possibly expect something different? Like why would i That doesn't make any sense. And I can catch it and work on that reframe. But again, this goes back to having this dialogue with myself with ourselves on a daily basis. Michael Hingson ** 27:28 What we tend to not understand or don't want to understand is that there really are basic laws that we live by and should live by. And if you are within those laws or not, but if you're doing something and you do it the same way, every time, you're gonna get the same result. And you have to decide whether you want that result. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 27:50 And if you don't, then something different is required of you, in order to create a different result. We do live I know people don't like that. But we do live the same lessons over and over until we learn the lesson, like do the same experiences over and over until we learn the lessons. And Michael Hingson ** 28:08 unfortunately, it happens time and time again, generation and generation again. And somehow we've got to do a better job of really learning that you've got to do things different if you want a different result when we were talking earlier about the whole issue of growing up and, and learning and recognizing what we learn and all that and like banning books, you know, we're getting away from understanding history. And so what are we doing? We're banning books, we're getting rid of the lessons or the places where we could get great lessons for poor excuses for banning the books in the first place. Yes, Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 28:51 I have a hard time understanding all of that not not to get like not getting political. I just have a really hard time understanding that we're just going to we did make mistakes in past 100% We made and we're still making them today. But banning things and ignoring it like it never happened, then we're not pulling lessons from that we're not learning something from that. I don't think that anything it I don't think it's beneficial to pretend that things didn't happen. I think we some very valuable lessons from some very big mistakes in history. Michael Hingson ** 29:26 Well, people have said that Dr. Seuss was a racist. And so we shouldn't be banning his books. Is that good justification for banning all the good things and all the positive stuff that kids get out of the books? Or does that open up a great opportunity to have a discussion and teach people the subtleties of maybe where racism did come through and some of the things that he wrote, but for the most part, people acknowledge that he did a great job or even To Kill a Mockingbird is is a real crazy one to talk about banning because it's All about discussing how people were treated inappropriately. I think Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 30:05 we have to continue having those conversations if we're going to change behavior and and learn how to treat Michael Hingson ** 30:12 people differently, should all of Bill Cosby's humor go away, simply because, as it turned out later in life, we found that he had feet of clay in some ways. And the reality is, I think they're two different things, the humor, and the the wonderful joy and laughter He brought to people as a stand up comic, and even in TV and so on, can't be erased. And if you do, you're missing so much. You Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 30:39 are and I think this is a this is a really interesting conversation, because I do not know the quote, but if we're only I'm not justifying, what if we are judged by our worst days, then like, nobody is going to nobody is is free, in a sense. And I think that we need to be accountable for our mistakes, especially when we are doing things like this. I definitely agree with you on this. But there has to come a point that, I mean, if I hold on to the energy of that feeling of holding the worst days of every person in my life against them, I'm not going to have anyone in my life. Because I mean, and what a terrible thing to focus on is only the worst things that people have done. Michael Hingson ** 31:31 And the reality is that there's so much positive energy that that we can attract, if we choose to be more positive than negative, and recognizing that we don't need to be negative, it doesn't add value to us. It Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 31:46 doesn't and that's and that's such a such an expression, such an understanding, it doesn't add value to us, many people and people will say, and we will have why. How do I show up when everyone around me is just negative like that, like, I don't know how to do it? Well, sometimes boundaries have to come in place. And sometimes you decide where you put your time and your energy. And you have to know that, you know, there are times where I will say no to certain things, because that's just not where I choose to put my energy. And I think this is really important. I'm not saying that because I'm judging somebody else. And I don't like how they're how they speak or how they show up. I'm doing that because that's what's best for me. That's, I feel like that's choosing ourselves, we get to choose who we spend that time and energy with. It's not about pointing fingers and making it about other people, we just get to decide where we put it. And I really think that there's a there's a difference between two. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 32:45 yeah. And it's always a matter of choice as to which way you want to go. And like I've said to people, on many occasions, sometimes things happen to us that we don't have. And actually a lot of times probably things happen to us that we don't have any control over happening. But we always have control over how we choose to deal with what happens. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 33:07 Yes, and that is actually I'm probably going to butcher the quote, but it was years ago. For me one of the big turning points was when I heard Stephen Covey's quote, and it was that you are not a product of your circumstances, you are a product of your decisions. Yep, that that was a light switch for me moment where I went, Oh, okay, that no, that actually makes sense. Because I was living in a situation that I don't remember asking for, I didn't want it's not what I wanted to deal with. But I did have a choice in how I responded. And that really started to reframe my thoughts that I could choose how I show up, I could choose how I responded. And when you can start to take back even a sliver of choice in your life, it really will start to shift your energy and how you show up. If you actually I think the other piece of this is that when we stay in that angry victim mindset, and feel like this is just all unfair. And it's happening. No change happens there. And when we can start to become a product of our decisions, we can actually start to create change. And that's the it's a really powerful message for and I know it's not easy. I know it's not easy. I just know that it's soul choice. Michael Hingson ** 34:23 Yeah. It's always a choice. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 34:27 Well, you thought of energy that's wasted when it's not Michael Hingson ** 34:31 Oh, so much. Yeah. I love the quote I heard and I don't know about the truth of it, but I choose to think it makes sense that it takes 17 muscles in your face to frown But only three to smile. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 34:44 Isn't that something, isn't it? Yeah, it's in and that's a that's a choice. Sometimes when I go for a walk and I'm gonna walk my dog a lot or I'm in the store. I tried really hard to make eye contact and smile at people and it's an Have you seen how that's just not always? That might be seen as weird? But I actually have to do it? Michael Hingson ** 35:07 Yeah, well, and it makes such a difference. You smile, people smile at you. And it goes so far toward helping, I think people feel better. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 35:19 Yes. And you can be meeting people on sometimes their worst day. And sometimes that smile, that just gesture can make such a difference, and it can make an impact in both of your lives. Yeah, absolutely. Michael Hingson ** 35:31 And you may not even know the impact ever, or until later. But still, it makes a big difference. So many times we plant seeds that we don't necessarily know how they'll grow. And we may not even learn how they grow. But nevertheless, it's always good to to work on planting good seeds and and not bad ones. Now Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 35:54 100% And it made me think of I really like it. This is such a short and simple book. But I really like the is it Mitch album, the five people you meet? And I like that because the reframe there is that the people that you have the biggest impact on you might not even realize it. Yeah, like, there might they're not the they might not be the closest people to you. It could be somebody that you crossed paths on their worst day. And that created a ripple in their lives. And I just I've always loved that concept. Michael Hingson ** 36:27 Well, and you may not even ever No, no, how much of an impact you had one of my favorite stories, and I've told it a couple of times here, but I'll tell it again, is that in 2003, I went to New Zealand and I had been introduced and interviewed in 2001 by a gentleman who was always known as the Larry King of New Zealand. His name was Paul Holmes. And he came to interview us in the States at our home in New Jersey. And he said, If you ever get to New Zealand, let me know I want to interview you first. And so it turns out that there was an opportunity to go and do work in New Zealand for three weeks. And I emailed Paul and let him know we were coming. And we got there on a Wednesday morning and I got a chance to nap because it was a long flight. But we got there and napped. And then I was on his show that night at seven. And what happened was that a week later, a weekend a few days later was the second Saturday I was in New Zealand. Apparently, the show interviewing me reran. And the next day, and I wasn't connected with this at all. But a group of blind people took a river raft, and they had a guide. And they all went and they had a great time. And at the end, the guide said, I have to tell you a story. He said I was going to cancel this trip yesterday, because I didn't think fine people could do this and that you would have any fun at all. And I probably have to be jumping in the water and saving all of you. They said last night, I saw the Pol Home Show. And there was this bloke from the States I love it. This bloke from the states who was on who was in the World Trade Center on September 11. And he got out and I figured if he could get out and he could be here and talk about that, I should be able to have fun with all of you guys. And I have to tell you, this was the best trip I have ever had a chance to guide. Hi. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 38:25 Thank you for sharing that I have not heard that one. I love that story. That's beautiful. Michael Hingson ** 38:30 You just never know. And it will have always felt if I can make a difference in my life or one person's life, then I've done my job. And anything else beyond that is great. And I've chosen to speak because my belief is that if I can help people move on from September 11, and learn about blindness and guide dogs and so on, then it's a good thing. And that's what I've been working on for the last almost 22 years now. And having a lot of fun doing it. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 38:59 Yeah, I think that was one of the things that drew me to your story and knowing that I wanted to share it is because exactly that you are you're making a difference with your story. And it is just it's really opening up conversations and showing people how they can move forward and how they can make a difference. And I just I absolutely love that. Michael Hingson ** 39:22 Well tell me a little bit about you getting into doing a lot of storytelling. You said that you during your your career, which I assume ended mostly because of the pandemic, the company. Yeah. But you learn a lot about telling stories, which I always think is a great way to handle any situation and it helps people grow to have a greater understanding. But then you started coaching full time. And now you tell stories. So what does it mean to own your own story? Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 39:51 Well, I think I love this question. And I I just I think when it comes down to it. You either own your story Don't you to keep it super simple. If you are, we've all walked through an experience, we've all walked through challenges. But that doesn't have to identify us, right? It's part of us. But it doesn't have to be our identity. And I think that's the piece is that when you own the story, it doesn't own you. But when it does own you, it controls you. And I mean that in a sense that there is a tremendous amount of people who are hiding in what I would call a shame story, and are hiding it, hoping and praying that no one ever knows that they've struggled, that they're struggling, that there's a challenge happening. I think that has been even more amplified with social media. Because I think that for a long time, there was this this image that of, you know, perfectionism, and wow, look at how great everyone is doing, when that's just, it's just a snapshot of a person's day. And so when you don't own the story, it owns you. And for the longest time, I really tried to hide that part of myself, because I just didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't know how to deal with the criticism, and the judgments, and all of the words and and I'm still trying to, at the time was trying to navigate a really difficult time. And so when that those words started to land on me, like on your choices on your life and owning your story, and what did that look like? It was amazing that I came to a point of saying, Yes, I was a parent who dealt with teen substance abuse, it changed me at the core. And I learned how to share my story which allowed me to heal, which allowed me to build better relationships with my kids to really do something really good with the most difficult experience of my life. And part of that became sharing stories. How Hermie how do you share a difficult story? Like how do you share a story, especially when there's other people involved? How do you share a story when there's other people involved? And I think that is something that is misunderstood a lot. But here's the thing is, is that when we don't, when I first started to share my story, I was blown away by how many people would stop me and say, Oh, my gosh, that's my story. I've never told a soul. I've held on to it for 3040 years and listening to people. Be that victim to shame and shame. Shame, love secrecy. Right? So the more people shut it down, the more shame grows. So by helping people to share a story, then all of a sudden, they were able to feel free from that story. And it started to open up this this idea of how can we start to share more of us. And that's how we find our connections and how we build our connections. So storytelling wise, if I can share, I watched this today, I actually ran a masterclass today. Pardon me, I've been talking all day. But I ran a master class today. And I asked if there was anybody who wanted to come on live and practice how to share and frame a story. And one of the moms who jumped on I saw her jump, and I'm like, This is awesome. I'm so excited. Because I've had a number of conversations with her and both of her boys experience. They both had a genetic condition. They spent 18 years in the hospital, almost 95 in the hospital. So I could imagine what that family went through. They lost their one son, the other son survived. And she started to share. And she was very afraid she was scared to share it. She got quite emotional. But as she did it, people were commenting and pouring so much love and support into her that I actually made her pause and I said I need you to read these comments, like read these comments. And she just sat there and went, I had no idea. And I'm like, this is the point about our stories. Our stories show that we are so much more connected than we think that we are we are so much more alike than we think that we are. And I think that learning how to share our stories, normalizes our connections. And we don't have to walk the same story as somebody else in order to be connected to them. Because we're all connected by emotions, experiences, lessons, etc. So that's really where it started. And when I started to find my own freedom from my story, I actually started to heal, but listening to everyone else, give me feedback and tell me that that was their story. It just gave me fuel to keep going and I felt very compelled that this was my purpose in life was to start to change stigma and start to open up conversations about difficult topics. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 45:06 Well, and it's how do I say it is an exciting thing to be able to do and to recognize and then to help bring about, and whether you know, what it was we talked about before whether you know, what really happens and, and how you affect people or not isn't the issue, but at least you're the conduit, and you know that. I Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 45:26 like being the conduit, I'm actually I like, I actually like it. And it helped me to shift in looking that, you know, through the most difficult experience I've walked through, I was able to give it purpose. And because I could give it purpose that helped me to heal. And it helped me feel like, maybe that's what I'm supposed to be doing. And accounts are sent that to me. And it was etched in me, when I said no matter where I go, nobody's talking about difficult things in life. And she said, maybe that's good. You're supposed to, maybe you're supposed to talk and I'm like, You want me to just talk about this, like, What will people think what will they say? And I can tell you all of the stories I made up in my head about how bad it would be and how scary it would be none of them happened, survived. And I mean, you speak you understand, like, it's two big groups, we tell ourselves stories. But it was incredible experience. And I continue to do that to this day. And podcasting is part of it. And what it's done is brought connections into my life that I never would have had. And I know I've normalized a lot of topics that people don't want to talk about. But I do think the interesting thing is, is that, tying it back to the very beginning of my story and intro that I shared here, I grew up in an era when you didn't talk about difficult things, like you literally just put your smile on and pretended everything was fine. And so when I decided that I wanted to start sharing, I would love to say I was met with so much love and support. And that was not the truth. It took time because it was it was uncomfortable for people in my life. But I kept saying just trust me that I will be always sharing and leaving everyone in integrity. It's the utmost highest intention. And it didn't take long for others to see why I wanted to do it. And I'm so grateful that I did. Yeah. Well, Michael Hingson ** 47:22 you talked about having teen substance abuse in your family. And that had to be a hard thing. But learning to talk about it is also part of what probably was good therapy for you. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 47:33 It was the best therapy I've done all I have done so much different support. And I would say it was one of the best things that I ever did for myself healing wise and therapy wise. Michael Hingson ** 47:45 Ironically, picking on the media, as we often do for me, subjecting myself to literally hundreds of interviews after September 11. From from media people who asked anything from the most intelligent thought provoking questions to the dumbest questions in the world. Even so, it made me talk about September 11. And it made me do it in ways I would never have imagined. So for me, that was some of the best therapy I think I've ever had. And I and I think everybody in the media for it, ironically enough, after knowing that we we still have to pick on them anyway. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 48:23 Yeah, and I'm sure that like, I've had many people ask me questions, and I'm like, I am not answering that. Like, I'm just not there's no purpose behind that. I'm not saying that. People will ask I also think that people ask because they don't know, or they're looking for a sweet, they don't know. It's interesting, because I think I actually I'm gonna say this, I think that I would rather somebody asked me a question that's not appropriate, then give me that glance and judge and not ask, because sometimes people don't ask out of fear. And I've actually had a couple of really interesting opportunities when I where I've been able to use that conversation as a little bit of nice education. Because I think the other thing is, is that with my with our story, we didn't look like what most people thought, like who had this issue, which, to me, was all the more reason to start to talk about it. Because there's, there's hundreds of 1000s of me, it's not that I was the only one. And I mean, the only reason that most of us feel alone when it comes to these topics is because we're not talking and we're not alone. None of us are. And so I really think those are those are the pieces but I love how you share that. And I do think that by talking, I really wanted to help others out. And I was also helping myself. I didn't know that at the time. One of the best things I could have ever done, because Michael Hingson ** 49:58 it helped you as much as anything How did you discover that you could only own your own choices? Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 50:05 The hard way. I think the hard way, I spent a lot of time trying to fix, manage control, micromanage everything around me trying to make it better trying to save them trying to, you know, fight a system, I was just in this constant fight mode. And really what was happening there is nothing external to me was changing. And everything internal to me was changing, but not for the better. I was in a space where I was probably my worst health, I wasn't sleeping hardly at all, I didn't have hardly energy, I didn't have a lot of positive joy or good outlook in my life. And through a lot of work, and reading and support, I started to recognize that I wasn't owning any of my own choices. I was literally blaming everyone for that, and not taking any responsibility for myself. And ironically, when I started to do that, it got really easy to say, Wait, is that my choice? Nope, that was not mine, either. Nope, that one's not mine, either. And I literally would go through the list. And it was like, Oh, my gosh, I'm spending like, I was spending like, 97% of my day, doing everything that wasn't my choice, and then having nothing left for me. And then being angry at everyone else, because I had nothing left for me in order to do that. So owning owning my choices became a model for me. And when it came to wanting to start the podcast, on your choices on your life, that was I mean, people say that's too long of a title, you shouldn't do that. And I'm like those words saved me. And that's, that's literally they've become the pillar cornerstone for me. And they saved me so that it became very easy to use them. Michael Hingson ** 51:45 I never would have thought of calling your choices on your life being too long of a name. It Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 51:52 was I had so many people. I mean, this is the thing when you ever want to do anything new, be very careful how many pins you ask for? Yes, get a lot. Michael Hingson ** 52:04 Or feel free to get all the opinions and then you just have to synthesize them together and decide where you're gonna go. Exactly, Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 52:10 exactly. When I when I wrote my solo book in 2017. It's called when she stopped asking why. And I waited for a while for that title just hadn't come to me yet. And when it did, I went to my publisher. I'm like, I've got the name. It's once you stopped asking why. And the publisher said, Oh, no, that's just way too long. That's way too long, no one's going to understand it. And I said, I actually think more people are going to get it than anything. Because it's, you know, when we ask that when you ask the question, why it only is appropriate if you're moving towards something like if you're focusing on the why the bigger picture, and that mission. But if you're asking why as a victim, and why is this happening to me, that will never change the story. And for me, that's when the story change is I would catch myself and ask why. And it's like, no, wait, why does it matter? The what matters, what is the verb, what is an action, that is something I can control. And that's what I would just shift it to. So again, back to what you're saying, you've got to follow your gut on some of these things, and listen to what feels right for you. Michael Hingson ** 53:14 We forget all too often to follow our gut and our instincts. And they're always telling us the right answer. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 53:21 They are they're speaking to us, we just might not be listening. I Michael Hingson ** 53:25 learned that playing Trivial Pursuit learned it the hard way, you know, you got to listen to what your brain tells you. Because you're sitting there going, when a question comes up, and you get an answer. No, that can't be right. And you give another answer. And it turns out, you were supposed to answer what the original answer. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 53:40 The first one how many times in Toronto procedures that happen a lot all the Michael Hingson ** 53:43 time. A lot. So I work at it and and then and now people say when I play it, how can you get so many of these right? You know, and I just keep telling, telling them? I'm just listening to my gut? That's awesome. It is it's fun. Well, you know, when you are working with people, are you expecting to make a change? Or do you do you feel that's what you have to do? Or you're just really trying to help and let them make their own choices and decide whether they want to change or not be Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 54:16 the opposite? Yes, I again, back to conduit. I like to be the person. So this person who came on to the masterclass today, for example, I probably have four or five conversations with her. And this has just been something she's working towards, like these are difficult, vulnerable stories that people are showing up and trying to find a way to share. Because the intention is is that they want to do something good in the world with it. They want to help somebody else. They a lot of times like we're perfectly designed to help the younger version of who we work. And so they want to do something, but it will be in her own time and it will be in their own time. And she even said today she's like thank you for like just nudging me, but never We're pushing and I'm like, it's, I can't make you do anything. And if so, like, that's not where real change comes from. So I like to be a person who can help them to, a lot of times I can see what someone has available, but before they can see it, but I can't make them do it. That's it's never my job to make them do it, it's it's my job to show them what's possible. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 55:27 And you can't make the change happen. All you can do is at most set by example, as Gandhi said, Be the change you want to see in the world, but you have to do what you have to do, and be who you have to be. And hopefully, people will recognize the example. Yes, that's, Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 55:47 and that's why I think I really on a regular basis Share, Like I just share so openly, because I, I am never going to be the person who shows up online and saying everything is rainbows and butterflies, and it's a piece of cake. I'm not going to go on to complain, but I know how to be real. And it's like, you know, sometimes we're walking through really difficult times. And it requires me to focus even more on my own mindset and how I show up. But I will never show up and pretend that it's a piece of cake. And it's never a problem, because that's not relatable, that doesn't help anybody. I would rather show people how to navigate through something, and if it speaks to them, and it helps them to say I actually want to do something with my story, too. I would love to know how to help someone else out, then I hope it inspires them to do that. Michael Hingson ** 56:39 And what do you say when they say that? Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 56:41 I asked them, usually the first thing I ask them is what's the vulnerable story that you're holding on to that you wish you could share more openly with others. And for example, somebody will say, you know, I experienced this, I have dealt with addiction, I have dealt with this. And I helped them to come to a framework with their story where they're able to have perspective, and they're able to pull the lessons and the learnings and the experiences from what they walked through. Because that's what they share. Right? That's what you share, you don't share the details of the story. It's you share the experience of what you walked through and how you helped, like how you got yourself through. And that's what you share. So I really helped them to kind of dissect and look at like, what, what did these experiences teach you? Who are you now because of it? And what do you want to do in your life? Because of this? Yeah, that's Michael Hingson ** 57:43 what I was gonna get to is then what comes next? And it's what do you want to do with your life? Exactly. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 57:48 And for some people, it's like their entire mission now. And I just love it. To me, it's very, it's a ripple effect. And I'm grateful to see it firsthand is to watch people step into and share vulnerable stories. And when I see people do that, like, I just, I just cheer them on, because I know how scary that is. And I know how hard that is. But I also know that story is going to reach others. I actually interviewed a musician who had dealt with addiction for a number of years, most people didn't know it. And he's, you know, he was sharing online, he was building quite a following. He was singing people loved his music, at cetera. And it he said, you know, it was funny, it was building a following, until I decided to quit drinking. And then I started to share my story as somebody who was was working through addiction, then all of a sudden, he goes my following. And my support and my community grew tenfold. Because I let them see me, I gave them something to root for. And I just I think that is such a beautiful piece that as humans, we want to be able to support others. But that's going to require that we let others see themselves through our experiences. Like they have to be able to recognize that Wait, she knows what if she knows what I'm going through? Because I could I could hear it and her message. And then we start to build these connections. Michael Hingson ** 59:20 It isn't telling the story. It's telling the story in a personal and open way. So that people as you say, See you it's not just I'm going to tell the story and everything's gonna be great and people are gonna love me. Doesn't matter if you're not genuine. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 59:40 No, it's the the authenticity, the genuineness. realness is so much more important. And even even here as an example for anybody who's listening. Like I didn't share much of my story. And I didn't have to. You don't have to share the details. It's not the details that is going to connect you with other people. It's that experience and what you choose to do with it. And I see such a bigger movement now of people who are recognizing that they've walked through something really difficult, and they want to do something good with it in the world. And I think that's how we start to change the conversation around these kinds of topics. Michael Hingson ** 1:00:20 When you start to tell your story, if you get somebody who really pushes back and criticizes you, how do you handle that? What do you do? And how do you rebound and go on? Well, Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 1:00:30 in the beginning, it took me a while to rebound, I'm not gonna lie, like in the beginning, it was hard, because, you know, critics, nobody wants to be criticized. And but it didn't take long, I had some really good mentors, and I did a lot of work. It didn't take long to recognize that when you're going to talk about difficult things in life, you're gonna ruffle some feathers, you're gonna you're gonna push buttons, it's gonna happen. And people will always react to you based on whatever lens they're wearing. If they're wearing a lens of like victim anger, resentment, you don't get me you don't understand, I can't change that. I can't fix that. Like, I can just be me I can be I can. And I used to be the change, I literally wear that word on my bracelet like that is those are my go to words, I get to choose how I can be the change that I wish to see. And so that's always a reminder for me. But when I see that criticism now, this is how and I advise and share is this just my opinion on it, is when I see it, if it doesn't feel good for me, I will delete it lockup, if it is something that is constructive, that maybe a person is asking for some questions on, then I will I will try and answer because maybe this person is just a space of curiosity going wait, how do you move through something that's difficult. So I don't just take it at face value and judge it. But if it doesn't feel good, I still get criticism to this day, I will block delete, I will move things. I can really protect my energy put boundaries in place when it comes to putting myself out there. And I there are times that I have to remind myself, you know, sometimes I'll share something that's quite vulnerable. And I'll get 1015 Incredible comments back and I'll get one negative one. Do I choose to put all my energy into the one negative one? Or do I focus on the other 10 to 14 that were incredible. I think we get to choose what we focus on. And so the day that I start to focus on the only the negative comments, that person is, I can't I can't make them change. And maybe that's not their journey. And and that's not up to me. So when that happened, I just honestly I check in with myself again, go back to self like reflection and intention. And I look at it and say Did I say anything that was inappropriate? Did I do something I will go internally and look not being critical, but I will look to make sure I didn't do anything that wasn't. And then I just look at it and say I can't change that person sometimes even said thank you for your opinion. And sometimes I just block and delete, because I know that. I mean, at least once a week I get a message from a completely new person. I take those messages, I screenshot I save them. They're my reminder of you know, keep going. Because the messages that we're sharing might not be for the people who are in our life today. They are for the people that we haven't met yet. Michael Hingson ** 1:03:42 What about when you do get a negative comment? When do you decide maybe well, I really should address this. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 1:03:52 If I am not sure on what they're saying, or I want clarification, if I'm in a good space, if I'm not in a good space, and I don't need that right now then I won't do it. So I really do go internal first. I will ask for clarification. I've had conversations with some people. A lot of times when that happens, it's a person who wants to prove that you can't share all stories. Or they will say you don't know my story, and you don't know how bad it is. And when I hear that, like when I hear things like that I know I'm talking about victim mentality, and I can't change victim mentality. I know that and so I don't even try to be honest. I don't try. Yeah. And and but I've heard other people say, I know I don't feel that way. But I do want to look at it differently. What would you recommend that I do? And I'll say honestly, I've got like almost 600 podcast episodes. Just just grabbed something and started listening if you want like getting to listen, right? Like there's content out there to support you if you want to create change. And so I'll support that any day. But I Certainly don't go into the business of trying to convince, fix manage change. I don't I just don't have the energy for that, because my work is to do is definitely to do different things than that. Michael Hingson ** 1:05:12 And again, they have to want to do something about it. And you can't you can't create that it goes back to being your own best teacher again. Yes. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 1:05:19 Which I'm going to I am going to I will definitely credit you, but I am going to say that because I think that's a fantastic message. Michael Hingson ** 1:05:25 It's yours. You can, you're welcome to Well, tell me. So you're doing coaching and so on, do you? How do people find you to do masterclasses and take advantage of the coaching? And do you do any online courses or anything like that? Yeah, Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 1:05:43 I do a whole bunch of different things to be honest. Um, I do I have a fairly strong social media presence. I'm fairly consistent and across all platforms. If you just take Marsha Vanw, I have my own. I've created we're running it right now. My own NLP coaching certification called out spoken, which I think is hilarious, because that's what I was told I was too much as a kid is outspoken. So I decided to call it that. Because I think that when you can start to work through those limiting beliefs of using your voice for good, you can really start to create some change. So that's a six month program that I do. I'm just currently we're starting a like write your book program to help people to put their book together, especially the vulnerable stories. And I did this masterclass. Today, I'm going to be doing it more regularly. There's just a free masterclass online, so that people can, you know, experience some live coaching and helping them reframe in moments. And then my podcast is called on your choices on your life. And there are three episodes that release every single week. And it is where a lot of my content and heart and soul goes out. Michael Hingson ** 1:06:59 Well, and it clearly is successful, because you're genuine in what you do. Yeah, I'm Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 1:07:06 Thank you, I'm gonna receive that. And I am. I am very genuine. And I I often think back to that young version of me who wanted to start a podcast so that I can open up doors for more people to talk about difficult stories. And I thought, Where am I going to find people who want to do that? Well, it's not that hard. It's not been that hard. There's, there's there's a lot of different people who are out there sharing, sharing challenging stories. And I love it. If you Michael Hingson ** 1:07:33 had one thing that you could go back and say to that young Marsha, what would it be? Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 1:07:38 To get out of her head and to start even sooner? Michael Hingson ** 1:07:42 There you go. Yeah. Well, cool. I think that's as much as Vice as anybody could ever ask for. And I really appreciate you being here and being with us. This is gone really well. I think it's been fun. I hope you've had fun. I've loved it. I Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 1:07:59 love the conversation. I love the connection. Again, just this piece on podcasting, I get to have conversations and pay it forward and help and share and I love them. So I'm honestly I'm very grateful to have been here today, Michael, thank you. And Michael Hingson ** 1:08:14 if you want to do it again, any old time you need to just let me know because it would be fun to do. Absolutely. Absolutely. I would love it. I hope you've enjoyed listening to us today. Please reach out to Marsha. She would like to hear from you. I'm sure you said Marsha Van. Why right? Yes, Marsha, VanW. Marsha VanW not why? Why? Marsha VanW. Okay. i One of my favorite stories is about a college class. I think it was a philosophy class. And the teacher came in and passed out a final test assignment and on the paper was the word why? And he said, You've got two hours and answer to answer all the questions on the test. And the only question was why? There was one student in the class who sat there for a minute he wrote something down, took up his paper, handed it in and left. And he was the only one who got an A because the question he asked was, why not? Oh, I love that. I love that. Yeah, it's one of my favorite stories. I love that. My general science teacher in high school told me that Yeah. But I hope that you'll reach out to Marsha Marsha Vanw. And you can find her on LinkedIn and on your choices on your life's podcast. She is a great interviewer as well. And so reach out and join the family in the fan club when I regard myself as a member and I'm very much enjoyed having the opportunity not only to talk to her but but to to get to work with her on her podcast. We would appreciate you giving us a five star rating so please, wherever you're listening, he was five star rating and a review of the podcast. Of course we love glowing reviews but whatever you say we appreciate and if you'd like to read reach out to me directly, please feel free to do so you can reach me at Michaelhi@accessibe.com. AccessiBe is A C C E S S I B E.com. Or you can go to our podcast page www dot Michaelhingson.com/podcast. And Michael Hingson is m i c h a e l. h i n g s o n. So hope to hear from you. I really love all the comments when people make them whatever they are, because I learned from them. And as I tell everyone if I'm not learning at least as much as everybody else when we do these podcasts that I'm not doing my job right and I feel I learned a lot today, so I'm going to count it as a win. But again, Marsha, I want to thank you for being here and being a part of this today. Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 1:10:40 Thank you so much for having me. Honestly, I'm very grateful for this connection. Michael Hingson ** 1:10:49 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. 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