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Our guest this episode is Anthony Poponi. He says about himself, “At my core, I am focused on reducing suffering at the levels of the individual, the workplace and the community”. As you will hear, this is exactly what he does.
In 2016 Anthony started his consulting and speaking company, Focus On The 40. As he will tell you he is committed to helping focus on achieving the full %40 of happiness over which we have control.
Talking with Anthony on this episode was intriguing for me and, I think, we challenged each other in many different ways. As he mentioned to me we are aligned in so many ways, but as I observe, we come to the same points from different and both relevant places. This episode was as fun as I could ever expect one to be. I hope you will feel the same way.
About the Guest:
ANTHONY POPONI is the FOUNDER OF FOCUS ON THE 40, LEAD PRESENTER AND HUMORIST.
MY MISSION. At my core, I am focused on reducing suffering at the levels of the individual, the workplace and the community. People are struggling, burned out, and directionless more so than ever before. We’re disengaged and looking for inspiration, deeper connection and a sense of purpose—and this is challenging our workplaces at a time when we need to get the most out of our people. We’ve been led astray, seeking happiness by chasing the myths marketed to us. My work is centered on refocusing on the 40% of our happiness that we control through the active crafting of our lives which includes pushing through the hard parts. I’ve been told I’m “tenacious about my happiness.” I love that phrase and want to bring that mindset of actively crafting a fulfilling life to my audiences.
INCREDIBLE DELIVERY. Humans are wired to feel good when connecting with others, and events are a huge part of what’s been missing since the whole pandemic thing started. Conferences, retreats and team-building are important opportunities to reconnect and reengage. So, I urge you to make your events fun and inspirational by finding the right talent (ahem, cough, me). And events are hard to pull off. I have over two decades of experience presenting at events of all types including grand galas, festivals, corporate events, conferences and intimate parties. You get this vast experience in a human smoothie of “subject matter expert” and “comedic genius” on stage and BOOM! Your event goes from “good” to “memorable” and “talked about.”
SERVICE FOCUSED. In my work, I take pride in solving challenges for businesses and for associations looking to provide value for their members. When at home, I’m honored to be part of a community of caring, passionate, driven and yet funky people in Bend, Oregon. Service is important to me and I find joy in volunteering my time as a Board member for the Boys & Girls Clubs of Bend, Commute Options, and I’ve also emceed about every community event under the sun. It lights me up!
HUMBLED OUTDOORS. When I’m not working, I’m usually outside seeking open spaces and especially water. You can find me exploring the breadth of life’s humbling experiences through snowboarding (below average) and playing hockey (really poorly). When snow turns to water, I’ll be rafting (flipping) and fishing (it’s not called catching for a reason), on my motorcycle (generally not enjoying), hiking, and smiling while mountain biking. Or navigating a series of near-death experiences on a surfboard. I’m having fun. Performing improv and live comedy keeps my brain churning and making people laugh and engage with life is an element of my purpose. I occasionally have a bruised and scraped-up body (and almost always a bruised ego). But I’m happy
Ways to connect with Anthony:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonypoponi/ https://www.facebook.com/AnthonyPoponi
About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/
accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/
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Transcription Notes
Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi, once again, thanks for joining us here on unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet love the unexpected part. Today, our guest is Anthony propone, who is going to be as unexpected as they get. Because he among other things, is a humorist. He is very committed to trying to eliminate suffering at the individual, the workplace and the community levels. And we're going to get into a lot of that. I don't want to give it away because it's no fun. He's supposed to be the expert in that. So Anthony, welcome to unstoppable mindset. I'm I don't thanks for having me. Well, glad you're here. So why don't we start I love to start by learning a little bit more about you in general growing up and all those early Anthony things? Well, that's a start. Anthony Poponi ** 02:08 Yeah, let's get started. I mean, I've we're gonna have to have multiple episodes here to cover my entire life story. But I'll give you the quick version. Michael Hingson ** 02:14 Oh, you can start off with in the beginning, it's okay. In the beginning, Anthony Poponi ** 02:19 there was a big bang and the universe became and then the you know, I love Calvin and Hobbes, I don't know if you're a fan, but he always has these crazy stories about in the beginning. And he has this one script where like, you know, basically God creates the universe. And that Calvin, the six year old little boy, is the culmination of all of the things that the universe has put together. So I think of myself as that self centered narcissist as well at times. Yeah, I grew up on the East Coast. And I think the thing that's been really formative for me and and it wired me in a certain way that I really appreciate is I grew up in a portion of my life from about age five to age 12, in poverty, living in low income housing, living off of what was food stamps back in the day living with my mom, I was five, my sister was three, my brother was one, of course, I was the favorite. And, Michael Hingson ** 03:10 like you best, wow, Anthony Poponi ** 03:11 yeah. And so my sister and brother brought his grandkids and then I became, you know, a second and third fiddle. And so now at least, I'm still on the podium. But I think that was really important for me, I mean, my dad was was, and still is, in my life. My mom was a loving mother, that environments really challenging. And we know a lot from the research into psychology about how impactful those times can be in our, in our lives. And, and so I think it's been really interesting for me to take the good and the bad from that, you know, the bad is the adverse childhood experiences, which is the technical term. And the good is it made me wired to serve other people, you know, I was really fortunate to have others take care of me. And it was given a lot of chances in my life. And I want to turn that back around and give that back to the world. And so I think it's really driven me as a surface mindset person. Michael Hingson ** 03:58 What, what made that leap? What made you make that leap? I mean, that certainly is different than what a lot of people do with their lives and so on. I love it. And I have that attitude. But I know a lot of people don't so kind of what really made that leap happened. Anthony Poponi ** 04:13 Yeah, it's, it's a really good question. And I don't know, I mean, maybe it's a deep desire to have the sense of belonging, and you know, something in there about like, wanting to contribute and wanting to be wanted, I think, in a way, and it's not that my parents didn't want me it's not that I wasn't surrounded by people that showed me love and affection. But maybe it has maybe some, some fear based wiring to it, but I think it's turned into something that's been positive, you know, for, for me and for, you know, for anyone I'm in contact with, not, not anyone, but Michael Hingson ** 04:47 some people. Some people, some people can exercise away from their life and that'd be fine too. Yeah, you'd be happier, which is always, always a good thing to do. Well, Older saw subtraction. That's right. And the conservation of happiness. It's a good theory. So you, you went to college and all that, Anthony Poponi ** 05:10 yeah, I went to college and I have a degree in Biology from the University of Georgia. And for the longest time, up until about 2014, I use that science degree in a lot of different ways. I think one of the things that was really valuable for me and even sort of like in, in this definition of like, alleviating suffering for others, it was for me first, you know, that there was, I remember this one person who I really respected, saying, well, you'll always be nonprofit, environmental, Anthony. And like, that was the label thrust upon me. And I made strides and steps towards breaking that label intentionally and unintentionally. And I think as you kind of like, drop some labels, you can add new labels, you know, or you could probably still add labels even while you have existing labels. But there was this kind of transition for me being like a nonprofit, Anthony anymore. Second, environmental, I started working for boys and girls club that had nothing to do with the environment. And then I was like, Oh, well, now I'm a professional speaker, Anthony. And what's that label look like? And what are these other labels that I would like to add versus maybe later labels that I've accepted at this point? Michael Hingson ** 06:17 Well, how did you make the jump to I assume it's full time professionally speaking? Anthony Poponi ** 06:22 Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a mix of professional speaking and workplace consulting. So I do a lot of work with workplace culture. That's still probably professional speaking, depending on how you you slice. Good point. Yeah, it's, um, you know, years ago, I mean, I've always gravitated towards roles where I could be front and center, I love speaking in front of audiences, I have a talent. I think I had a talent for it. And then I develop the skill and develop more of the skill set to do it better and better. And it's been just kind of an evolution, you know, there was a while back in, like, probably 2008 or 2007. You know, someone came up and said, Hey, we're doing this fundraiser for the Animal Welfare League. I was like, Oh, that's great. I have to rescue dogs and, and they said, Would you like to be our auctioneer? And I said, Sure. And then I said, What does that mean? You know, and so it was a yes. And then I did that. And I had a lot of fun with it. I did it the second year. And then I just started paying attention to like, well, what things really bring me joy, and how can I serve people? And how does it not have to necessarily be through nonprofits? And so that kind of led me to just continue index more and more emceeing and then developing my expertise in positive psychology and workplace culture and leadership and all that. Michael Hingson ** 07:36 What were you doing when you were focusing on biology? What was your day job? Anthony Poponi ** 07:42 Oh, it was a lot of things that kind of played with all of it. I was a middle school science teacher. For a while I was an environmental consultant, I worked with sea turtles for a long time and the Caribbean and in Florida. I was doing watershed restoration work, Source Water Protection work. So that kind of for nonprofits running those as like an executive director. So it was all over the place. I played with all of it. And I found I mean, I love science, I still love science. And I'm doing work for for the Fish and Wildlife Service these days doing some, some work with for corporate wellness. So it's been really nice to kind of tap back into that world. But I've never been a good scientist, I've been a very good communicator of science versus being the one that should generate the data. Michael Hingson ** 08:23 I think I probably fit more in that role as well. I wanted to teach physics ever since I started getting degrees. And I thought that was going to be the way I went and went a little bit different way. But by the same token, I think we're all still teachers at heart in one way or another. And so for me, it's led to a number of different things. And now among other things, doing a podcast, which is a lot of fun, and get to meet people like you. Now the real burning question is what did the sea turtles think of your speeches? Anthony Poponi ** 08:57 I don't know that reptilians have a whole lot of emotional repertoire to share them back with me. How do you get connected to physics? Like what was the what was the thing that Michael Hingson ** 09:06 I have always been interested in science. And so when I was like, seven and eight years old, I got a radio kit. My parents bought me a radio kit that I could could build some little radios with crystal sets and so on, and, and so they helped teach me the schematics so I could do it. And I've just always been involved with it. I got a ham radio license at age 14, and have had that license ever since. And so radio and physics have always been a part of what I did. And when when I was in high school, General Science first year, the last quarter, the general science teacher, Mr. Doyle said, you know, you look pretty bored here. And I said, Well, I understand all this stuff. And he said, well, so last quarter of the year, and I know you have a ham radio license, and the senior physics class is studying electricity magnetism, we're gonna send you there for your last quarter. That wasn't a change. But I've just always liked it. My dad was an electronics and electrical engineer, ran the precision measurements equipment lab at Edwards Air Force Base. So it was it was in my life life and in my blood and then went to UC Irvine and had a lot of fun there. And I've been doing things that have been technical ever since. So it's really not a problem at all. While I was at UC Irvine, I also worked at the radio station. So that kind of entered the bloodstream as well. That's really interesting. Anthony Poponi ** 10:30 Yeah, that's, so we both have had this path of like, we started somewhere with something was science for both of us. Like that's the overlap I see. And I think what's really interesting is I was just reading this book the other day, and I'm trying to remember what it was. Maybe it's Richard lighters, the power of purpose, and he was talking about Peter Drucker, who's no pass on? Yes. And, and the quote from Peter Drucker, and I'm gonna paraphrase is that those of us that figure out our career at age 18, and stay the course on that thing the entire time, it's a one in a million chance. Yeah, I think that that, and he didn't back it up with data, it was more of just a commentary. And I just found that comment, I was like, Yeah, I think a lot more people just need to be given that sort of like space to say, I'm taking my best guess, and age 18, or whatever it is, as I'm picking as either a career path or a vocational study, or going to college for something that, just try it, you know, and if it doesn't feel right, it doesn't fit. And you keep learning more about yourself and more about what lights you up and what you can give back to the world, like look for that synergy. And I think that that's where a lot of the suffering exists for people. Michael Hingson ** 11:37 I think for me, actually, I, I ended up sticking with the one career and the career wasn't being a scientist, but the career was teaching and communicating. And I've always had that. And in one way or another, I have been involved with that. So when I left college, I had a job that that eventually, within a couple of years had me selling full time, and I've been selling ever since. But anyone who really understand sales will understand and know that sales is really about teaching and advising, if you do it, right. And so I think it's just been that way all along. And then of course, September 11 happened, and people started saying, gee, come and tell us what we should learn and the natural speaking process took over. So that was a lot of fun. And frankly, for me, I don't tend to really understand what so many people say about public speaking being such a great fear, because I'm comfortable with it. And I don't think it has anything to do with seeing or not seeing the audience because I know they're there. But rather, it's a matter that if you learn that you're not talking to an audience, but you're talking with an audience, and you want them to be drawn in and be a part of what you do. Why would you ever be afraid? Anthony Poponi ** 12:55 Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, like I said, it's something I've just gravitated towards. And then I also think that there's, you know, one of the core parts of positive psychology is about, you know, this, this engaged life and that flow state that me Hi, chicks and Mihai talks about. And the way that he breaks it down that I think makes a lot of sense to me is, and we don't necessarily recognize this and see these patterns in ourselves without introspection. And what I mean by that is, he basically says, there's this flow channel, right, and you remain in this place of being super engaged, lose track of time, and you're doing something that's challenging, but it's at the right challenge level for you. So it's, it's the right mix of challenge and ability. And I think, you know, the first few times the, you know, I gave a presentation on on content matter, you know, like on neuro chemistry. Somebody said, Can you do a 20 minute talk? And I was like, whew, 20 minutes. That's a long time, you know, and now I'm like, give me two hours, give me a day, give me you know, give me two days, like, there's so much that we can be sharing and also doing together, right? It's communicating with versus just, you know, I'm not going to just do a two day retreat with someone and talk for eight hours a day for two days. It's more about creating that, that bidirectional dialogue around what they're wanting to achieve and how we can support Michael Hingson ** 14:11 them. Absolutely. It has to be a dialogue. It has to be both ways, which is why I always say, I talk with an audience and not to it. A few years ago, the Iowa Police Chiefs Association asked me to come and speak. And I didn't pick up on this at first. They wanted me to do the keynote address. And it dawned on me over a few times in conversing with him that I was going to have three hours to do the keynote. Oh, wow. So it was a lot of fun. And we did have a lot of interaction back and forth too. So yeah, that's the way it really needs to be because I think that any audience doesn't want to be lectured to as such, but really, the the real, engaged audiences are the ones that are engaged and they're a part of the process. Anthony Poponi ** 15:04 Yeah, it's and that's hard to achieve when you have a gigantic audience and a limited amount of time or even, like the way that I always kind of frame a keynote for me, the way I approach them, it's, it's a comedy show with content. And I think we're, I can do a really great job and serve people better, is a big give me time. While I'm also at that, in that conference, or in that space to say, I'm gonna, like, get you to think about a few things. And then, and we don't have time for you to have a little back and forth, or it might be time for q&a. But I want to have, give me two hours for a workshop after that, we're gonna run down, but just pick a vein, and we're gonna run down whatever vein they think is most valuable to their audience. And then people can select in to say, Oh, that was intriguing. I want to know more, and I want it to be a little more personal to my own challenges. So I'm gonna go go to that. Michael Hingson ** 15:52 And I always feel that if I'm not learning at least as much as my audience, then I'm not doing my job well, because I love to go and spend some time before speaking. Because oftentimes, I'll find that there are things that I hear that I can integrate in, which makes it more meaningful. But I need to gain a lot out of being at any event. And gaining that I get comes from listening to what other people say or interacting with them. And I, when the opportunity arises, do love to have q&a? Anthony Poponi ** 16:24 I mean, q&a is the hardest part. And it's also sometimes the best part, it gives you just an insight into what really resonated and jumped out to people. And then what they need more of. Michael Hingson ** 16:33 Yeah, for me, it's always hard to get people started on asking questions. So they're, they're very uncomfortable. But once you open the dam, yeah. Then the questions come. And that's really cool. And again, that's a great way to to learn a lot more. Let's say you've been speaking professionally, since you said, what? 2014? Anthony Poponi ** 16:56 Yeah, yeah, somewhere back in there. And they went from a side hustle to a full time gig and somewhere in that timeframe to well, around 2016, then it became more of a full time thing. Michael Hingson ** 17:06 How was it like during the COVID? Anthony Poponi ** 17:09 Oh, it was tough. Yeah. Yeah, you know, fortunately, a good part of my business has always had some consulting to it. And that still existed for workplaces. And, you know, people were transitioning to virtual and trying to keep their people engaged. So, you know, it was good. And I don't want to ever repeat the pandemic. But it helped me take stock of a lot of things, as I think it did with a lot of people. And it, you know, I did a lot of good things for my community as well, you know, I was doing free virtual talks all day long. I was writing, I have a history when, when I was working with nonprofits and fundraising. So I was writing grants for my local food pantry, we landed a couple of big grants that came through during that time. So, you know, I put stuff on pause a little bit, I did a lot of online training for myself, which was helpful, I produced my first workbook. So there was a lot of good things that came out of having that time and space. But, you know, I love the being in my office all day long. That's not the part I love. And part of that love is working with groups and working with people. So you know, getting back to that was important for me, for my own happiness for my own fulfillment. Michael Hingson ** 18:17 You have talked a lot about people being not well engaged, we're not happy in the workplace and other things like that. So tell me a little bit more about that, if you would. Yeah, you're gonna start in any specific area? No, I'll leave that to you. Anthony Poponi ** 18:38 Yeah, you know, certainly post pandemic, we're seeing a lot of, you know, everybody knows these terms of the great resignation, and quiet quitting, and all of those things. And you know, how much of that has been driven by kind of coming back to work after we kind of came out of crisis mode, and we were like, Hey, we're all rallying together, you know, we're gonna get through this together. And then people, you know, last boundaries between work life balance, hybrid became the way of doing things or working virtually. And those are, it's hard to create boundaries there, you know, and then layer on just different pieces of like, Okay, now what, like people had time to be introspective and time to get back to their lives. And so now creating those boundaries is, I think, really been helpful, helpful. But also people are like, Oh, this work that I was always doing is maybe not the work I shouldn't be doing. And so I think it's led to a lot of, you know, disengaged employees and, and that's a, it's a lose lose proposition, you know, like an employee that's not getting fulfillment out of their work is and because they're not leaning in, and they're not trying, you know, getting things done and being productive and all that that's a list for them. And it's obviously this for the workplace. So, you know, a big part of what I do when I'm working with groups is say, like, let's figure out who you are like who you are as an individual. Let's figure out what lights you up let's figure out what your skills and your gifts are. And then let's figure out like we you know, all the all the fun stuff, strengths, finders and leadership styles and all those things, and then let's figure out how to put those views as much as you can. Now Very few jobs are gonna let you do that all day all day long. But the more we can align those things between passions and values and gifts, you're gonna find more purpose in the work that you're doing. And that's great for the workplace. And you know, it takes time, it takes energy, it takes up investment, but it's worth it. And sometimes it means that that's the wrong job for you are like, as in a position, or it's the wrong workplace for you, if some of those things are often so I think so. So much of that is just exploration that you have to do. Michael Hingson ** 20:30 Do you think that a lot of people are really unhappy at work? Anthony Poponi ** 20:35 Uh, huh. You know, I don't know, the the data doesn't look good. Michael Hingson ** 20:41 Why do you think that is? I've had that impression, too. But But why is that? And is it? Is it just in this country? Or is it all over? Anthony Poponi ** 20:50 Um, I people are generally pretty, pretty low engagement levels. I don't know if that's actually a really good analogy, measurement tool for looking at what happiness looks like. I mean, I think work is supposed to be hard. And, you know, part of the, it has hard parts to it. And that's, that's because we're learning new things and trying things and we're engaging with groups, and there's going to be natural conflict in those things. Like it's, it's at all levels are everywhere, like, I'm part of a performing improv group here. And there's like, conflict within that. I'm like, we are volunteers. We're here to entertain people and have a good time, like, but why are we adding on this dramatic element? I guess, because, well, we're dramatic people are performing. But, you know, I just think it's human nature. And so you know, that's one layer is like, the social dynamic at work is really hard. And then all these other pieces, it's just like, Can I do things that I really find enjoyable? And I'm not saying that I have a completely dialed I mean, the, the best thing I've done in my work day today, is actually having this conversation with you. Because I like talking to people. I like conversing. I like sharing information. I like learning new things, versus sitting behind a computer and take a picture. Michael Hingson ** 22:01 Yeah, me too. You know, my wife passed away in November of last year. So it's now been four months. And it'll be two weeks, on Sunday. But one of the things I've noticed, since she passed, and in even a little bit before she passed, although I really became aware of it later was doing these podcasts has just taken on a whole new meaning. It's been fun. And every time I get a chance to talk to somebody, it lightens the day, because they have new things to say that I haven't heard. And I get to interact with them. It's just a totally unique thing. So it's again, getting back to that whole interaction. Yeah. Anthony Poponi ** 22:46 I'm sorry, for your loss, glass grease, grief is real. And people need to give themselves the the ability to honor that and be okay with that, you know, and I think the more we can share those things like vulnerability in life, and in the workplace is an incredibly valuable thing. And, you know, I think that's the other part of this too, is like we treat, we treat our lives as like compartmentalized, and they're not compartmentalized, it's all this, it's an amalgamation of all the things it is Michael Hingson ** 23:12 it's everything. And like I like I tell people, I don't move on from Karen passing, I move forward, because moving on really implies that you're going to move on and forget. And that is absolutely the last thing that I want to do. Because it's all about the memories. It was 40 years minus 15 days of being married, so that the memories are great, I love them all, I cherish them. And at the same time that adds to enriching my life today. And I'm always happy about that. Anthony Poponi ** 23:43 That's great. And I love the difference between moving on and moving forward. And I've had to embrace that with the loss of a friend to have just like, it doesn't, you don't want to move on, you know, like, this honors, all the richness that was there of all the great things that came from. Michael Hingson ** 24:00 Yeah. And it's really important to to make that distinction. And she passed because as I tell people, the Spirit just oftentimes goes faster than the body she is in a wheelchair her whole life and her body just started not keeping up. There's there's no other real way to put it. I think that's basically what happened. There were a number of different factors into it, but it was just, it was her time. So I don't know where she is now or exactly what she's doing. But I hope I don't get in trouble. Anthony Poponi ** 24:35 I don't know she might want you to get in trouble. Michael Hingson ** 24:37 Well, I mean with her I don't want to get with her. I want her to approve. That's kind of important. Have you read 10% happier by Dan Harris? Yeah, I Anthony Poponi ** 24:47 just read it this you're actually yeah, Michael Hingson ** 24:49 I found that was an interesting book. And I think he had a lot of interesting things to say. And it's all about happiness. Go ahead. Anthony Poponi ** 24:57 No, no. You Yeah, I was actually, I don't know that I have anything profound to say right off the bat there, I enjoyed the book. And I enjoyed the story. And I enjoyed it. As a non spiritual sort of person, like, I don't mean towards religion, I don't mean towards spirituality, it was really cool to see him find that I'm seeing a Venn diagram in my head of just like mindfulness and, and, and performance, you know, mindfulness and happiness. And so yeah, I thought it was an interesting, interesting book. Michael Hingson ** 25:30 He did work hard to not try to get involved in a religious discussion. And it was about mindfulness. It was about sitting back and, and looking at yourself. And I'm a great fan of that. I think that people need to spend time every day looking at how the day went. And I've, I've learned, partly from a number of discussions on these podcasts. One of the things that I used to say was that after every speech I gave, I recorded them, I made audio copies, I would listen to them. And I said, I wanted to because I'm my own worst critic. And I realized that's horribly the wrong thing to say. And what I've learned is, I'm my own best teacher, which is a lot more positive. And what it really leads to is, when I look at it from what do I learn today, what did I learn from doing this? What do I need to learn to make it sound better? Or that didn't sound right? What's the real thing I need to do? So I love I'm my own best teacher, I think that's a much better approach to take. And we, we are way too negative anyway, so it's always good to be more positive. Anthony Poponi ** 26:38 Yeah, I'm pretty hard on myself too. And those things that, you know, I think when you have an expectation of like, when you have the standard that you've set, and experience that you've done, where you've been, like, that's the best I've ever been on stage. And you can probably think about Windows, or I can think about a couple of instances over the last year or so. And, and then when you don't do that, well, you're still doing really well, like, unless you just completely bomb. And I have a hard time thinking that either of us do that, because we're not there. It's not like we're sticky. You know, like, we're not up there trying to deliver this thing. It's mine hasn't my presentations haven't melted, you know, it's organized, but it also has some organic newness to it. Sure, and I really love. But yeah, even you know, the, the, the be the, you know, what, we're not on our a game and we give the B version of it, we can be really, I can be really hard on myself, I should say. And, and that's still really good. You know, that room for improvement is is good. But it needs to be framed, I think in the way that you framed it. Michael Hingson ** 27:41 The The other issue, though, is you can be hard on yourself. But again, that can be a positive thing or a negative thing. And for me, it's all about why wasn't it what I expected it to be. And that analysis is I think the most important thing for me, and I will continue to do that. And the time may come when I'll never feel that things really went poorly, which means I've been improving, or there will be a specific reason I can immediately point to it like, Oh, I just wasn't feeling well that day. But you're right, we will probably pretty much always be on and the key is that people won't notice it. And shouldn't because we're professional enough. But we're also skilled enough. One of the things that I remember I collect old radio shows as a hobby, and Abbott and Costello, the comedians in the 50s, and so on, I think it was Lou Costello. One Sunday, they were gonna going to do the show, his daughter drowned in their swimming pool that afternoon, but he still went on and did the show that night, and no one ever knew. Because he was able to transcend it. And, and as you said, there's got to be a time for grieving, which is extremely important. But when that was going on, he did what he needed to do, and he was skilled enough to be able to do it. Anthony Poponi ** 29:09 Oh, it was probably a reasonable break from when the grief as well, you know, to just compartmentalize that for a moment and run away from it, you know, but, you know, to be able to move on and distract yourself with something else. Briefly. I'm Anthony Poponi ** 29:22 not saying that that's a great strategy is used all the time. Right? There's times when you need to get out of your own head. Michael Hingson ** 29:31 Yeah, you got to what are some techniques that people can use to make themselves or become happier in the workplace? Anthony Poponi ** 29:40 Well, I think we, you know, I'll read their reiterate some of the other stuff. I mean, the, I think you got to figure yourself out, right? And B go back to that Peter Drucker comment about, like honoring that you need to figure yourself out and who you are now and who you're going to be and who you were there. You know, they're all different things. And then you can really shape things a lot better. That's a win win for everybody involved if you're, if you're aligning things better. And so, you know, do the strengths, finders work, do work on leadership, understand your character strengths, like, you know, do at this training, whatever the thing is that you need to do to kind of start off being able to put some language to the things that you're really great at, and then try to do those things as much as possible. I think that you'll find a lot more joy in the work, you'll have a lot more success in the things you do, you'll be happier doing it, it's just a great opportunity. And, you know, and then I think the other thing is that relationships are working really valuable. And relationships in general are really valuable. And so, you know, encourage people to really build strong relationships. And, and you should have that I mean, even the work that's come out by Shaun Baker, I don't know if you've ever heard of him The Happiness Advantage? Yeah, yeah, I encourage you to watch his TED Talk. It's a 17 minutes of just absolute brilliance. He's so funny. And he's so articulate, and he's got a great, he's a excellent researcher. But he talks about there being kind of basically like three components to what makes us successful work, one relationships, that we have social support, relationships, and they can be at work and they can be outside of work. But we need to have as we you know, we don't operate in a vacuum as humans, than introverts, extroverts, the different numbers of friends, that's fine. But it just makes sure that you have a social network that's strong, whatever that means for you. And then, you know, finding that alignment between things that you're really good at, and leaning in in ways that have a positive outcome, because of your way to engage with those things really well. And then also, optimism is really important. So having a belief that there's a better future out there that you're that you're actively going to be the one to help create. And I think those all kind of weave together really well. Michael Hingson ** 31:49 And I think having a good relationship with ourselves is extremely important. We, we need to like ourselves, and we need to learn to like ourselves, which is why I like best teacher, as opposed to worst critic anyway, but we need to do that. But again, I think the other the other technique, I would add, which is what we talked about a while ago, which is you really want to look at the end of each day about how things went. And even the good things, what what might I do better? Or have I really done it as well as I could? And it's okay to say yes to that, by the way, I think. But at the same time, if there are things that that didn't go well, so what's the deal here? And what did we do to address it, and we can do that. But if we don't take the time to think about those things we're never going to learn. Anthony Poponi ** 32:37 I mean, 100%, I would say that you need to be looking at your life at scale. And I share this with groups a lot about you know, every year on my birthday, I carve out some time, and I kind of do a urine review. And I use the tools that I use in my audiences, I use them with myself, I kind of look at the different domains of my life, and what's going well, and what what can I be doing better? What would I like to shift? What are the easy things to shift? What are the harder things that will take more time to shift? What are the things that aren't going to change? You know, there's some of those out there as well. And, and really paying attention to those things. And of course, doing it once a year is a nice thing for like, Alright, here's my baseline from last year. And now where where am I gonna year because some things will take time. But the opportunity, you don't want to wait all year. Think about making those chips. Michael Hingson ** 33:25 No, it's always about setting goals. It's always about looking at what you want to do. But then every day, exploring it and re examining it gives you the opportunity to say how do I move forward with that? Or what do I need to redefine, but so many people say I don't have the time to do that you always have time to do that, if you choose to Anthony Poponi ** 33:48 even better make the time to do it. You know, I mean, it's like one of those things where it's like, I don't like the word should. Yeah, but it's this is such an important show, you know, like, it's an important thing that I think, you know that we can get stuck in this kind of like default life of how things are going. And if we don't examine the things that we really love that we want more of, and then the things that aren't working and how to subtract those from our lives as much as possible. It's a missed opportunity. And it's that whole metaphor of like, having, you know, a jar, and then you if the rocks are the big things, that you put those in the jar first. But if you wait and keep filling the jar with all the little stuff, the sand and the pebbles and all those things, you won't have any room for the rocks, that thing important things in your life, right? That's finding ways to prioritize those is important. Can you do that every single day and make sure that you aren't just focused on your rocks every single night? Probably not, you know, and that's okay. But you know, if you lose sight of those sort of things, then you can be like, Well, I don't have time to do the things that are really important. Well, then it's on you to change it. You're the only person that could do that. Michael Hingson ** 34:51 Yeah, what's really important then you're missing the point. Anthony Poponi ** 34:55 Now we're let it go. I mean, quit being so like, Oh, I just wish I could be alive. Well, you can wish you could or you can actively happen, right? And, and there's, there's benefit, I think, in taking that approach of saying, I thought I really wanted this thing and I'm not making time for it. And instead of wanting and wishing and being angry that I don't have it, I'm gonna let it go is no longer possible for my life? And I'm gonna move on. But there's a relief in that. Michael Hingson ** 35:22 Yeah, I'm a Yoda fan Do or do not? There is no try. I've ever since I saw the movie the first time, I've always loved that line. And it's true. Because you either do it or you don't. If you talk about trying, you're introducing doubt. And, and it's okay. If you do, and it doesn't succeed, then you go back, and you look at that, but the doubts the issue? Anthony Poponi ** 35:51 Yeah, I like that. You Yeah. And even if you try and fail, at least you don't have to think about regret. You know, right. Unless, unless you gave up on trying iterating and saying, Oh, it didn't work because of this. I'll try this, you know? Michael Hingson ** 36:07 Yeah. That's and fail. Again, it's a learning experience, as opposed to being a negative well, by just screwed up, you know, what do you learn? Anthony Poponi ** 36:16 Oh, there's plenty of times I just screw up? Well, Michael Hingson ** 36:21 well, you know, in your case, when you talk with yourself every year on your birthday, which one gets the better presents? is That's the real question. Anthony Poponi ** 36:31 Pretty good care of myself on my birthday? Michael Hingson ** 36:35 How much of our happiness is really under our control? Yeah, to cover it. But I'm curious to see what you'd say to that? Well, I think Anthony Poponi ** 36:45 we kind of, you know, we're dancing around it. And I think the thing that is valuable for people to hear is that a lot of it, you know, and the name of my business is called focus on the 40. And the reason that it's called that is because about 40% of our happiness is within our control through intentional action. And so back to your Yoda of is no try, there's only do How does He say Michael Hingson ** 37:06 there is no doer? Do not there is no try, right? There Anthony Poponi ** 37:09 you go. And so taking action and, and you've heard me use this term today, during our our time together, I'm just I think of happiness as a verb, it's the act of crafting of happiness, like you should be. Well, I guess that doesn't mean, in that phrase, it probably isn't a verb, but I'm not the syntax person. But you know, we have to make those intentional choices about what we're going to be doing to shape our lives. And you know, the other 50% of our happiness is genetic, we kind of come up with a set point that's inherited from our parents. And then there's 10%, that's really controlled by life circumstance, we put an inordinate amount of focus on that 10%. If our circumstances will change, we will be happier. And the science shows that we just it doesn't affect our happiness that much. Michael Hingson ** 37:52 When September 11 happened, I remember afterward, reacting more and more strongly when people said we got to get back to a normal. And I, I subconsciously and then eventually really was able to articulate No, we're not going to get back to normal, because normal will never be the same again. Yeah, this is the normal, the new normal, and the new normal is ongoing change, actually even more than we had before. But the reality also is we do always try to control so many things over which we don't have any control. And we should worry about the things that we can control. And the rest. If you worry about them, it's just going to drive you crazy. Anthony Poponi ** 38:35 Absolutely. I mean, those concentric rings of circle of influence, you know, we have so little control and some of these outlying things. And if we put our attention on those, it's yeah, it's just going to dry, it's gonna drive us crazy. It's gonna make us unhappy. And it's, it's not changing anything other than how we are perceiving and how we're reacting to it. Michael Hingson ** 38:55 Why are we so negative about changing chaos, especially when people say all the time changes all around us? We're always on we're always going to be changing. And then when something affects us, we hate to change. Anthony Poponi ** 39:11 Yeah, I mean, you know, Cass, I think that our brains don't like uncertainty, you know, our brains like a defined target, and then define a problem. And then we put our supercomputer brains towards that towards solving that. If, if the target is always moving, that's chaos, right? It's targets all over the place. And that was What's so hard about the pandemic, and even all that. The impacts from that, just like the marketplace is changing, and supply chain is changing. And now we have stuff going on in Ukraine and things with China. And all these changes are going to keep coming. And you know, when they're definable, it's easier for our brains to compute the answer and the solution for those. When they're constantly changing. It's hard because our brains are like, Well, I was working on this problem and it looked like this and now it doesn't look like that at all. So it just creates it's hard for us and And it's the it's the same thing within, like even a workplace or just in anything that you're doing is that, you know, we build up expertise in things. And we build that up through cataloging experiences and learning new things. And then, you know, trying and solving, trying and failing sometimes before we solve. And so it feels good for us to do things. And it feels hard for us to be confronted with something that we don't know that we can solve. And if you can flip the switch in your mind and say, This is a new challenge, and it's causing me stress, and the term has actually challenged stress. Like, you know, when I get through this, I'm gonna be better for it, you know, and it's what I would call strategic discomfort, you know, like, there's value in this discomfort, because when you solve this thing, you're going to move forward. And, and that's a great thing to do for yourself to continue to challenge yourself. And, you know, doing it the right increment level, makes it easier to tolerate that change in those challenges. Michael Hingson ** 40:51 If you're able to step back and recognize what you just said, and recognize that the stress is there, that's the important part, rather than just letting it overwhelm you go, Oh, this is a challenge. Okay. I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this, or I'm going to do this, I'm going to have to figure it out. It may take a while. But it is something that I can deal with in one way or another because human beings are great. And then work toward that. Rather than letting it stress you that's the big issue. Anthony Poponi ** 41:22 Yeah. And I think you did a good job there of saying, Oh, I feel what do I feel? Oh, I feel stressed. Why do I feel stressed? Like, what can you unpack that? You know? And like? And that's where I think like this literacy around our feelings and literacy around what what challenges look like in literacy around? Why it feels good to achieve things. Like, if you can start, like understanding those pieces and breaking it apart, then you can be like, Why do I feel like this right now? Because I'm not being challenged? You know, there's another side to that. Michael Hingson ** 41:48 Good point, too. Anthony Poponi ** 41:49 I'm bored, you know? Yeah, that's good. Michael Hingson ** 41:53 One of the things that I talk a lot about to a number of audiences is trust and teamwork. And I talk about that, because having used guide dogs now since 1964. Oh, well, long time. What I've, what I've learned over the years, is that wild dogs do love unconditionally. And I absolutely firmly believe that's true, unless they're just so abused, somewhere on the line that they're stilted, but they love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally. Trust is still something that has to be earned. But the difference between dogs and humans is that dogs are more open to trust than humans are. And I always, when I have that discussion with people, I hear lots of stories about how well we can trust this person or, or you know, but other people have agendas, and how do we know what their agendas are? Yeah, trust is extremely important in the workplace. How do we deal with that? And how do we get people to be more open to the concept of trust? Anthony Poponi ** 42:58 Yeah, it's it. It's a double edged sword, right? Yeah, so this statistic that just pops out to me that I think it's, it's dated, mounted as an 18. Or so I think it was from Gallup, they did a survey and about 58% of the people said, they trusted a complete stranger, or than they trusted their supervisor. So think about that, you know, a complete stranger, and we're not, you know, we're wired to give people some degree of trust, and then maybe he wants to earn the rest of it. And, and I say, Trust is a double edged sword. Because by not trusting other people, you're kind of keeping your armor up, and you're protecting yourself. And by letting it down, I think it's incredible. Like, there's magic behind being able to trust all the people around you, and what you can achieve with those people, doing anything, playing team sports, or working in a community, being on a board of directors, when everybody can just be very candid, and very transparent about what's going on what they're thinking, what they're afraid of what they're worried about. What they're excited about, you know, and sometimes even being excited about something is a vulnerability. And so yeah, I think it's, it's, you know, trust is incrementally earned, is broken in a heartbeat. And if you break it, you gotta fix it. You know, that's the big part of it. Michael Hingson ** 44:13 And that's the real key, it's, again, we you may not trust your supervisor, but are you open and willing to be open to gaining their trust, and they earning your trust? And of course, that is, the whole point is that you said it's incrementally earned, and it can be broken in a heartbeat. And that's a very important part of the process. But we've got to start by being open to it. And all too often, I think we just send out messages that we're not open, we're going to keep the armor up, and that doesn't help. Anthony Poponi ** 44:49 No, I don't think it helps anybody. It's, you know? Yeah, it's so complicated. And, you know, micro, it's like, I use the metaphor of like, you You can't microwave to a trust, you know. And it's a slow cooker process. And it takes attention. And it takes time. And I think it's actually one of the things that it's impacted really heavily by this high degree of mobility we have in the workplace right now, even high degree of mobility and community, you know, used to be that we were born and raised somewhere, and you stayed there, and you live there, and you inherited your parents business, and you know, you stayed the whole time and want to community. And through that, you know, you're cataloging all these behaviors of all these people and building trust and building relationships that, you know, could be transcendent, you know, of politics and belief systems have all that stuff. Because you get to know the people. And you get to know the person behind whatever labels get put on. And it's an I think, the same thing in the workplace. You know, if you're only in a position for two years, you know, you're, you're kind of there and you're looking to be upwardly mobile, you're doing whatever you're doing. But there's, that relationship takes a long time to build. And it could just be getting to the point where you're like, we've been through a lot together, and now I trust you. And by the way, I'm moving on. Michael Hingson ** 46:04 But that's better than not trusting at all. Oh, sure. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I can understand that. But, you know, we've got such a world today, you mentioned a lot of things before, like China and Ukraine and everything else. And all the things that are going on in this country, the people who we have mostly been raised to think that we can trust are demonstrating all too often that we can't, and shouldn't just because of the way they behave, and that doesn't help our psyche and ability to learn to be open to trust either. Anthony Poponi ** 46:41 Yeah, it's the corruption and all those sorts of things. And even I asked him, if I can pull the statistic out of my brain, I probably can't, but just, you know, the overall decline of trust and belief in government and even business is, you know, it's went down, I think, four percentage points in the last two years or something like that, you know, whatever the numbers are, it's not going in a better direction. Michael Hingson ** 47:04 No, it certainly isn't. Yeah. Well, when did you start your company focus on the 40? Anthony Poponi ** 47:10 Oh, background? 2016? I think, Michael Hingson ** 47:14 and I assume it's focused on the 40. Because you're talking about the 40% of happiness? Anthony Poponi ** 47:19 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, from stage, it's a different, you know, and talk about workplace, you know, that the hard parts of workplace happiness from a stage and then when I'm working with groups, it gets, like, into the nitty gritty of really examining. So it's, it's workplace happiness, but it's, it's very tactical, when when delivered with group. Do you do workshops and stuff with groups? Are you mostly just from stage? Mostly from Michael Hingson ** 47:44 stage? I've done some mostly with groups, I do more on accessibility consultant. consultancy than, than anything else, but mostly from the stage. Cool. Keeps me keeps me going. Well, yeah, I'm glad you enjoy. So for you in terms of what you're doing through the company, and so on, how do you go about assessing what is occurring in a workplace? And how do we work to bring out the most productive cultures and the most productive people in them? Anthony Poponi ** 48:17 Yeah, I mean, that's always a tricky one, you know, getting people to be candid with you about what's going on? Well, you know, usually you're talking about somebody that's a leader within an organization, or at some leadership level, and, you know, I mean, that's one of the big parts of trust, like it, can leaders hear from their people about what's going on? Well, they will hear that a lot. But sometimes it's skewed towards that versus being like, Hey, these are other things that are happening in the workplace that are not good. And if that trickles up, I guess towards leadership that can make decisions around that great. And they can accept that and can bring that in and say, Hey, this is you know, we have a problem, or I'm fixing it, it's okay. You know, it's the nature of, of a dynamic, the dynamic nature of LV culture, which is living, breathing changes all the time. I was just gonna say, I have assessment tools, you know, and I use those. And then I think there's a lot of interviewing, and just people want to, when I'm given the time to do that, and being like, you know, what the ideal relationship for me is, like, let's do some assessments, let's figure out where you are. Let's set a base baseline, let's try to parse out what some of the things are we can do to open the door on that conversation about what's going on in this workplace. And then as I build trust within the group, and as I build trust between them and me, then we can start to be more candid and more candidate and more candidate. Michael Hingson ** 49:32 Do you think more leaders don't tend to get a lot of that useful information? Because whether it's intentional or not, they're sort of sending a message or the way they behave that they're really not interested in getting it. They don't want to get psychological or or whatever. Anthony Poponi ** 49:50 I mean, it's a qualified yes. And the reason I qualified is I don't know how to put a number on much of that, you know, I've seen statistics out there on it before about What it looks like about how many leaders are really hearing the truth from their people something around 60%? You know, that sort of transparency? It just really, I don't know, I don't know about you. But like when I am working with CEOs, and I'm seeing CEOs, and there's some that immediately I'm like, that's the guy. That's the guy that should be leading this organization. Yeah. Because it's not about him. It's about what he can bring out in this people. You know, and certainly, there's somebody at the top there. But you know, being infallible and invulnerable and omnipotent, I think you're just like, failed definitions for what leadership should look like? Michael Hingson ** 50:39 Well, the other thing is, you said roughly 60% of leaders hear the truth from their their people. So there's hearing the truth, and then there's hearing the truth. And that's the course the real issue. Yeah. Because if people since they're not being heard, then that doesn't help the situation. I think that happens all too often. I think we've all seen that one way or another. Anthony Poponi ** 51:02 Yeah. And I mean, there's leadership at all levels to you know, that. If nothing else, you can lead yourself. And that's about making choices and decisions and even what you're talking about. But being introspective. Yeah, saying, you know, what's great about today, what was that great about today? Like that? That's something in itself of being like, you know, what did I do well as, as an employee, as an area as a community members of parent or as a spouse, or whatever it would be. That level of introspection is valuable. And, you know, the problem is, you know, if you have leadership that, that I'm going to put a period on that, because I'm kind of tangent and making a tangent here. But there, if you have this like insular group of people that are like, That can't hear these outside influences in these outside concerns, and they don't great channels of communication around that, you can perceive that things are going great. But that may not really be the what's true. And that's not just the CEO when I when I was like departments and teams, and you know, whatever those clusterings aren't workplace, Michael Hingson ** 52:02 well, it's everyone because somebody may be telling you the truth as an employee, and you're not hearing it. And so it, it is something that has to occur at all levels. And it might very well be that the leader is trying to tell you something that should be told to you and you're not listening, or you're not hearing it then so that happens. For sure. What's the difference? Or what's the relationship between happiness and success? Anthony Poponi 52:25 Yeah, I mean, we talked about it a little bit more. Yeah, a lot of us put this kind of this causality or this? Yeah, I'll just say causality between happiness and success. As you know, I'll be happy when I'm successful. Michael Hingson ** 52:38 Whatever that means. Yeah. And Anthony Poponi ** 52:40 you better be able to define success really well. And then so that, you know, when you've achieved that, or when you're nearing it, or when you're, you know, at least you're aiming in the right direction. And then, yeah, so I'll be happy when I'm successful. The causality is backwards. And you know, the work of Shaun Baker and others have basically said, it's, I'll be successful when I'm happy. Yeah. And I don't mean happy, like running around the office doing cartwheels. I mean, like, aligned and engaged in all the things that we talked about before, like using your gifts and your strengths and having a, you know, an active using those actively in the workplace. And those can be way more predictive than just your skill set that one. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 53:21 And that makes perfect sense. Yeah, Anthony Poponi ** 53:23 I'm glad it does. I mean, you know, you can't Don't don't wait on creating love in your life. Don't wait on creating happiness in your life. You know, those two things are like they should not be delayed waiting until some right time. Is that right? Time will never come through it now. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 53:40 You got to start. And that you do have control over? Anthony Poponi ** 53:44 Yeah, absolutely. That's that 40%? Michael Hingson ** 53:47 Well, how a few people want to reach out to you and talk with you and learn more about you and so on. Since we've been doing this for a while. How do people do that? 53:56 Well, I'm a raging narcissist. So my website is my email, or my My name is, so it's Anthonypoponi.com. And if you don't know how to spell, it's just like Tony Poponi But Anthony Poponi. So P O P O N I, or you can go to focus on the 40 focus on the four zero and.com. And that'll get you there as well. And I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook and not on Tik Tok. Probably still have a MySpace account, but I don't use it very much. Michael Hingson ** 54:21 You don't hear much about MySpace anymore. Do you? Anthony Poponi ** 54:23 Know it's apparently used a lot though, for by musicians. And I didn't know that. That's kind of the place where theysurprised me too. Michael Hingson ** 54:31 Yeah, as far as Tiktok. We'll see where that goes. Yeah, never know. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for being with us. This has absolutely been fun. And maybe we can do it some more in the future. But this has been great. And I will definitely thank you for being here. And I want to thank you for listening out there. Reach out to Anthony. He's got a lot of ideas and I think a lot of ways that can help and we all need to become happier and we need to work at that that is as much an important part of life as anything else. So I hope you will do I'd love to hear what you think about this podcast as well as unstoppable mindset in general. So feel free to email me, Michaelhi at accessiBe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to my page, my website, talking about being a raving, raging narcissist. www dot Michael hingson h i n g s o n.com/podcast. So we'd love to hear from you please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to us. We appreciate it a great deal. And I keep mentioning on iTunes especially because they send tend to lead the way of monitoring rating. So blob of five star rating. We really appreciate it. And if you know of anyone who you think ought to come on unstoppable mindset as a guest. Let us know. And Anthony Same to you. If you know anyone that you think we ought to have on, I'd love to hear about it. And we are always looking for more people. But again, thank you for being here with us today. Anthony Poponi ** 55:55 Yeah, thanks. I really appreciate getting to talk with you. It seems like we have a very aligned approach to the world. Michael Hingson ** 56:00 I think so. Well, thank you very much. Michael Hingson ** 56:09 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.
