May 12, 2022

A Look at Female Power in the Past and Present

A Look at Female Power in the Past and Present
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Overcast podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
PocketCasts podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Overcast podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Season 4

In this episode special guest is Dr. Kara Cooney, Egyptologist, and author of When Women Ruled the World. Did you know that thousands of years ago ancient Egypt allowed women to rule and they called them Kings?! Amazing as it sounds there was still a very prevalent undercurrent of patriarchy that they ruled in, one that still exists today in the majority of positions of power. Exploring female power in the past can teach us a lot about female power today and Kara explains the similarities and differences between the times. We have lived by the rules of patriarchy for a long time now, and it’s about time for a change!

 

About the Guest:

Dr. Kathlyn (Kara) Cooney is a professor of Egyptian Art and Architecture at UCLA. Specializing in craft production, coffin studies, and economies in the ancient world, she received her Ph.D. in Egyptology from Johns Hopkins University. When Women Ruled the World, Her most recent book was published in 2018 by National Geographic Press and explored the reigns of six powerful ancient Egyptian queens and how they changed our perceptions of power.

 

Links:

https://nelc.ucla.edu/person/kara-cooney/

Instagram:

@karacooney

Book:

https://www.amazon.ca/When-Women-Ruled-World-Queens/dp/1426219776

 

Transcript
Kalee Boisvert:

Welcome to the wealth and wellness podcast with

Kalee Boisvert:

me Kayleigh, Bob air. I specialize in helping people to

Kalee Boisvert:

achieve their financial goals. I have a love for all things

Kalee Boisvert:

numbers, and I'm passionate about financial literacy. My

Kalee Boisvert:

goal is to spark healthy and positive conversations around

Kalee Boisvert:

wealth and investment and create a world where nobody is limited

Kalee Boisvert:

by their financial situation. But wealth is just one piece of

Kalee Boisvert:

the equation of living our best lives. So join me as we explore

Kalee Boisvert:

both wealth and wellness topics. From your net worth to your self

Kalee Boisvert:

worth. Get ready to take confident action. Hello, this is

Kalee Boisvert:

Kaylee and thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the

Kalee Boisvert:

wealth and wellness podcast. Very excited for today's guest

Kalee Boisvert:

and today's topic. I'm all about empowering women. You know,

Kalee Boisvert:

women being in control of their their money, their finances. So

Kalee Boisvert:

I think this is a really neat topic. So we have special

Kalee Boisvert:

guests, Dr. Kara Cooney, who is a professor of Egyptian art and

Kalee Boisvert:

architecture at UCLA, specializing in craft

Kalee Boisvert:

production, coffin studies and economies in the ancient world.

Kalee Boisvert:

She received her PhD in Egypt homology from John Johns Hopkins

Kalee Boisvert:

University, and her new book when women ruled the world was

Kalee Boisvert:

published in 2018, by National Geographic press, and explores

Kalee Boisvert:

the reigns of six powerful ancient Egyptian queens and how

Kalee Boisvert:

they change our perceptions of power. So we're gonna go all

Kalee Boisvert:

into that. I love it. I'm excited. Thank you so much for

Kalee Boisvert:

being with us today. Kara. Just to get started. Is there

Kalee Boisvert:

anything to add to that a little bit about your journey? And what

Kalee Boisvert:

brought you to do this work?

Dr. Kara Cooney:

No, no, I'm sure I'm completely different

Dr. Kara Cooney:

from any of the other guests on your podcast. I hope I'm the

Dr. Kara Cooney:

first Egyptologist if I'm not, I'll be disappointed.

Kalee Boisvert:

So definitely the first Egyptologist,

Kalee Boisvert:

absolutely. Which is exciting and new. And you're right, very

Kalee Boisvert:

different. Because oftentimes, we're okay, we're very money

Kalee Boisvert:

focused, or we're wellness focused. But I think this is a

Kalee Boisvert:

very important piece for women to talk about. Because when

Kalee Boisvert:

we're when we're talking about finances, and careers, and

Kalee Boisvert:

things like that, there is still this balance of power that, you

Kalee Boisvert:

know, is not completely equivalent. And I work in a very

Kalee Boisvert:

male dominated industry, still only about 15% women, female

Kalee Boisvert:

advisors, which is unfortunate. And so there's work to be done.

Kalee Boisvert:

So it's amazing to know that going into our past, there was

Kalee Boisvert:

actually a difference there.

Unknown:

Yeah, a little bit, but but all under cut it too. So

Unknown:

don't you worry. Okay, I'll get there.

Kalee Boisvert:

So can you tell us a bit about okay, so female

Kalee Boisvert:

power in the past? And how you know what that looked like then

Kalee Boisvert:

in this in this book that were you talking about when women

Kalee Boisvert:

ruled the world?

Unknown:

Yeah, Egypt was this strange and unusual place that

Unknown:

allowed women to act as nothing less than leader of state as

Unknown:

king, and they called them kings. So but for people get

Unknown:

upset that I'm not using the word queen. That's why the

Unknown:

Egyptians called them kings. And they allowed them to rule from

Unknown:

the very beginnings of their kingship to the ends of their,

Unknown:

their kingship and women, powerful women really bookend

Unknown:

the entire scheme, which gives you an idea that, when when, and

Unknown:

here's the dirty little secret of the whole thing, when

Unknown:

authoritarian power is held in the hands of one family, women

Unknown:

are needed. I could have written a book that was all about how it

Unknown:

was a revisionist history, claiming that women were more

Unknown:

powerful than they were. Instead, I wrote a book that

Unknown:

said, women are capable of ruling, and there are their

Unknown:

workplaces in the past that allowed them to rule. But don't

Unknown:

misunderstand that these women couldn't change the system. From

Unknown:

the inside out, they ruled in the same patriarchy that we

Unknown:

exist in today. And they had to play by those rules as well. So

Unknown:

it from your perspective, being a woman in finance, where

Unknown:

there's only what 8% female CEOs of Fortune 500 companies and as

Unknown:

you say, 15% financial advisors, finance is the economic power is

Unknown:

one of the places where women are, are really barred from

Unknown:

playing. And if you know that, and you learn from these women

Unknown:

who couldn't change the patriarchy, you can you can gain

Unknown:

some insight on how to find your way forward in a man's world.

Kalee Boisvert:

What can you say that about these women? And like

Kalee Boisvert:

was there differences to how they ruled versus how men ruled

Kalee Boisvert:

like it sounds like they kind of had to follow the rule. But was

Kalee Boisvert:

there some differences there?

Unknown:

There are always differences. There have to be

Unknown:

any woman who rules and I'm chair of my department. So I

Unknown:

understand this women who rule in whatever small or large

Unknown:

capacity I know that they are expected to rule differently and

Unknown:

that they have to fulfill certain expectations. And if

Unknown:

they don't, then they will be Hillary Clinton or Yoko Ono,

Unknown:

however you want to, you want to see it because a woman who, who

Unknown:

is openly ambitious and claims power that is not perceived to

Unknown:

be her own, who is not playing by patriarchal rules, because

Unknown:

usually quashed pretty effectively and pretty quickly.

Unknown:

So if you're going to be strategic about it, then you you

Unknown:

have to play by the game of being more peaceful, being more

Unknown:

self denigrating, laughing more being, there's all kinds of

Unknown:

things a woman just knows in her bones she has to do. And I will

Unknown:

say, for these ancient women, the only reason they were chosen

Unknown:

is because they didn't have armies behind them. They weren't

Unknown:

trained in professions, they weren't socially embedded. And

Unknown:

as such, they were the Safer Choice when say, a young king

Unknown:

comes to the throne, and he's unready to rule. And you need a

Unknown:

decision maker, because the kids like seven or eight, no one's

Unknown:

gonna let a seven or eight year old make decisions. But do you

Unknown:

have the uncle of the kid make the decisions? Or do you have

Unknown:

his mother make the decisions, and the mother the Egyptians

Unknown:

realize was the better choice, because the uncle might be able

Unknown:

to raise an army he's embedded in society is going to be able

Unknown:

to create competition against his nephew, the mother probably

Unknown:

won't want to do that because she loves her boy. But say you

Unknown:

choose a mother who's not directly related to this boy,

Unknown:

even in that case, she's a safer bet, because she doesn't have

Unknown:

access to all of the social tools that men who are embedded

Unknown:

in society do. And and so she's expected to rule and then when

Unknown:

when her time is done, just be quiet, sweetheart, go away.

Unknown:

We're done with you now. And and you're, you're good to go. So,

Unknown:

these women did roll rather as placeholders. But they were

Unknown:

chosen by a male driven and male lead system, because they could

Unknown:

be so effectively used as placeholders. Men were more

Unknown:

difficult to use in that way, they got more powerful within

Unknown:

the system, as they went up that ladder, and women often don't.

Unknown:

And that's something that we need to think about. Why is

Unknown:

that? How is that? Why is it so hard for a woman in a king ship

Unknown:

or in a corporate space to gain a legacy to train people

Unknown:

underneath her to be a leader? of many how, why does a woman

Unknown:

have to compete with other woman women, why she set up to do

Unknown:

that? It's a very common thing in the corporate world. In my

Unknown:

university world, women are often trying to take out other

Unknown:

women, but we shouldn't expect any less. That's the patriarchal

Unknown:

system. We're all looking towards the guy at the top and

Unknown:

trying to take each other out to get to that guy. So my opinion

Unknown:

is just like racism, if you understand that racism is

Unknown:

inherent to the human species, but with education and, and

Unknown:

communication, and openness, we can we can transcend it. The

Unknown:

same with sexism, if that's something that's inbred, that's

Unknown:

arguable, but we certainly live in a patriarchal system. So

Unknown:

given that it's nicer to give it a cold, hard stare, and say,

Unknown:

Okay, how am I going to get over that hill? And that's the way I

Unknown:

tend to do it.

Kalee Boisvert:

Yeah, absolutely. That's very, like

Kalee Boisvert:

very interesting and ways of looking at that and questions to

Kalee Boisvert:

ask of why, why is this happening? And why does it look

Kalee Boisvert:

like that? When you were saying like in those positions, and

Kalee Boisvert:

they were good placeholders, then were they taken serious

Kalee Boisvert:

like was that still that they were taken serious in their

Kalee Boisvert:

role?

Unknown:

They're taken seriously, but they're also not

Unknown:

given the full range of options that a man will have. And let me

Unknown:

just give you a biological example. So a man in the

Unknown:

position of King, what's the king most known to have? How is

Unknown:

he going to create his legacy, he's got a harem of women, whom

Unknown:

he will impregnate with many different children, and one of

Unknown:

those male children will be chosen as king after him. But he

Unknown:

will then have a variety of princes and princesses to use,

Unknown:

as his legacy. Now, biologically, was just the way

Unknown:

mammals work, the female creates the baby inside of her body,

Unknown:

very taxing, if you have done it, I have done it, it's a hard

Unknown:

thing. It's not easy. And then all the things that come after

Unknown:

and the breastfeeding, the caretaking, and the hormone

Unknown:

changes, it's not an easy thing, to have a an alien take over

Unknown:

your body. And to deal with that, plus, you can only have

Unknown:

one a year. And the man can have 365 a year if he is if he is so

Unknown:

endowed. And so in those terms, just in terms of biology, a man

Unknown:

is less burdened with caretaking hormonally physically than a

Unknown:

woman is whether it's having children or not in our world,

Unknown:

right. So think of it in our world. So imagine that you're a

Unknown:

professor like me, and and let's imagine that we humans have

Unknown:

pheromones that we can't even sense or that we have social

Unknown:

cues that we don't really understand. I with my door open

Unknown:

and more liable to get undergraduates in my office

Unknown:

weeping about their problems than my male colleagues who give

Unknown:

off a strong male vibe and so they don't have to deal with all

Unknown:

of that caretaking. Whereas I'm caretaking all the time. And I

Unknown:

have to put up like a certain front to be able to not

Unknown:

caretaker, I have to often not be in my office so that I don't

Unknown:

have to take on that role. And it means that even in a

Unknown:

corporate space, women are leading less creating less

Unknown:

progeny, if you like, less legacy, and taking care and

Unknown:

cleaning up messes more, which means that, and we're expected

Unknown:

to do this, this is part of what we do. So you've got to bust it

Unknown:

and work twice as hard to be able to have both to be able to

Unknown:

have your legacy and, and be able to caretake and clean up

Unknown:

all the crap that's happening in that corporate workspace. And if

Unknown:

you want to have kids, in addition, you know, just to take

Unknown:

on that private life aspect, if you do want to have a child, how

Unknown:

are you going to literally farm that out as you as you work

Unknown:

through the corporate world to be able to have all of these

Unknown:

things it's it's very difficult to negotiate what's expected

Unknown:

and, and that are an unspoken, unspoken and biases that people

Unknown:

don't even know they have. And and try to find some power in

Unknown:

your workplace. It's what makes women get that stereotypical

Unknown:

reputation of the bitch. Because if she doesn't care, take and

Unknown:

smile and stroke ego, then she is considered on feminine,

Unknown:

highly problematic. Something that that is upsetting to the

Unknown:

social core, and we don't talk enough about why and how that

Unknown:

works. Absolutely, we

Kalee Boisvert:

don't know. And then when it came to so when it

Kalee Boisvert:

was women ruling the world, how is the finances looked at then

Kalee Boisvert:

because I'm writing a book and I'm on this chapter right now

Kalee Boisvert:

about not giving up your control. And so often women,

Kalee Boisvert:

it's just like, okay, you know, my husband takes care of this,

Kalee Boisvert:

my boyfriend takes care of this. And I'm like, we can't do that

Kalee Boisvert:

anymore. Gotta stay engaged, stay involved. What did it look

Kalee Boisvert:

like back then? Was there power for women in finances? Like, did

Kalee Boisvert:

they have that that ability that

Unknown:

Egyptian women did have this ability. It's funny you say

Unknown:

this about finances. I had a really horrible car accident in

Unknown:

1999. And I gave financial control to my partner then that

Unknown:

turned out horribly, I know divorced from him. But oh my god

Unknown:

and credit cards in my name I didn't know about and when I

Unknown:

divorced, it was a credit card debt of hundreds of 1000s of

Unknown:

dollars, that of course I was then liable for as well. So at

Unknown:

least I'm in California that the half payment kind of worked for

Unknown:

me, because he had to at least pay half of it. But anyway, in

Unknown:

Egypt, women, this is normal women, not just queens or

Unknown:

princesses. Women could bring money into a marriage, they

Unknown:

could initiate a divorce, and they could take money out of a

Unknown:

marriage. So they had their own independence in a way that other

Unknown:

parts of the ancient world did not like Greece or Rome or

Unknown:

Mesopotamia or the Levant. Women did have this economic power. It

Unknown:

didn't equal that of men. However, because they couldn't

Unknown:

enter professions, and patriarchal societies, until

Unknown:

recently, did not allow women to enter professions unless they

Unknown:

gave up their sexuality entirely. Which is why you see

Unknown:

an abbess in charge of all kinds of finance. Why did they let a

Unknown:

nun do this? Well, she doesn't have children. She doesn't have

Unknown:

a legacy. She's not going to complicate things. Okay, well

Unknown:

let her take over all of the money. You could say Elizabeth,

Unknown:

the first Queen Elizabeth. The first is this similar example

Unknown:

and these Egyptian women. Women like Hatshepsut, you know, she

Unknown:

doesn't have a son as a legacy. She wouldn't be there. If she'd

Unknown:

had a son, she's ruling with her nephew. But she would have been

Unknown:

as much a part of ruling Egypt's economy as he would have. And

Unknown:

until he came of age, she would have ruled at all and made all

Unknown:

the decisions about what went where, having said that, and

Unknown:

this is a really interesting point for hardship suit, female

Unknown:

King of the 18th dynasty before her reign, the nobles of Egypt

Unknown:

had nice things, you know, tunes, chapels, statues,

Unknown:

reasonably nice things during her reign. They have the nicest

Unknown:

things you could possibly imagine. They have beautiful

Unknown:

tomb chapels and statues and all kinds of things. They were

Unknown:

spending money. There were more of these nobles than ever

Unknown:

before. It means that Hatshepsut in many ways had to give to get

Unknown:

she had to pay people off. How do we pay people off? It's never

Unknown:

like, I'm gonna give you this, you're gonna give me that. It's

Unknown:

like, oh, I will make you the great overseer of the robes, you

Unknown:

know, and you will receive this salary and then you will be

Unknown:

beholden to me. She makes all of these different positions within

Unknown:

her kingship. And they're, they're useful to her but that

Unknown:

means that she's letting tons of cash however you want to

Unknown:

understand that for the ancient world out of Her treasuries, and

Unknown:

the Egyptian court, or the king ship is diminished for

Unknown:

generations thereafter. So I think it's expected that for

Unknown:

women to gain power, they also have to maybe distribute a

Unknown:

little bit more of that than would be expected. It's

Unknown:

something to look at, right? It's something to think about

Unknown:

when you're in your corporate workspace or you're, you're

Unknown:

trying to bust in, in some profession here or there. What

Unknown:

do people expect you to give them? How much do they expect

Unknown:

you to share? How much do they think they have helped you

Unknown:

achieve? And that they get a cut of in some way? These these are

Unknown:

interesting things to see in the ancient record and then to

Unknown:

connect to the modern day.

Kalee Boisvert:

Yeah, well, even in like direct, like financial

Kalee Boisvert:

life, like I have a chapter about loving your money too. And

Kalee Boisvert:

I said, as women it's like, we think it's greedy or selfish to

Kalee Boisvert:

say I love money. I want abundance. And we think we have

Kalee Boisvert:

to give it all away. So often women are just, it comes in and

Kalee Boisvert:

it's like, okay, I'll give it to my children. I'll give it to

Kalee Boisvert:

other people. And there's nothing left. So it's so funny

Kalee Boisvert:

to think that that that was like something very ongoing and it's

Kalee Boisvert:

so ingrained then maybe that's connected

Unknown:

to caretaking. Yes, connected with caretaking.

Unknown:

Right. So we have all of these stereotypes of the woman who

Unknown:

spends too much on clothing, shoes, handbags, plastic

Unknown:

surgery. It's interesting how much of that those handbags and

Unknown:

shoes are considered gifts from the man everyone wants a handbag

Unknown:

from their man or a diamond ring from their man, then it's okay.

Unknown:

Because he's marking her as his property in a patriarchal world.

Unknown:

She buys it for herself, then it's like, Oh, my God, think of

Unknown:

the good that you could have done with that money. I mean, I

Unknown:

actually happen to agree with that. And I think these handbags

Unknown:

are stupid, but that's just me. Right? If you want the handbag,

Unknown:

then you should be able to buy it for yourself. But it's it's

Unknown:

part of that caretaking? It really is. It's and it also

Unknown:

reminds me of Do you know anything about micro loans? I

Unknown:

think so yes, this is a really interesting anthropological

Unknown:

rabbit hole for you to go down. Because there are micro loans

Unknown:

given to women and traditional cultures. And they generally by

Unknown:

and large, do not give them to men. These are like small loans

Unknown:

of 50 bucks, where you can buy a cow, take the milk, make it into

Unknown:

cheese, create a small business, take care of your family, right?

Unknown:

If they give men those micro loans, they have found on in

Unknown:

general that the men take it to the bar and create social

Unknown:

capital, which works very well for them buying drinks for all

Unknown:

the guys creating gift debt. And they'll be able to you know, but

Unknown:

it's not going to help the family. It's not money put into

Unknown:

caretaking. Whereas when they give it to the women, the women

Unknown:

make very different decisions embedded within the patriarchal

Unknown:

society as they are unable to have professions. They make

Unknown:

different decisions. It's why women are also drawn to all of

Unknown:

these pyramid schemes that we see in the world today. Because

Unknown:

they're stuck at home, they can't get out. And so they ended

Unknown:

up selling bad leggings or whatever some of these other

Unknown:

schemes are.

Kalee Boisvert:

Yeah, okay. Interesting. I love it. These

Kalee Boisvert:

are all very interesting points and to see how it played out in

Kalee Boisvert:

the history versus now. What What would you think could be

Kalee Boisvert:

different now like with what's going on in the world? I mean,

Kalee Boisvert:

we're we have a war happening right now with leaders. And I

Kalee Boisvert:

say, in my mind, I believe if more women were in the position

Kalee Boisvert:

of power, this wouldn't be happening at all. I agree. What

Kalee Boisvert:

can we say to that then? And how like, was there differences in

Kalee Boisvert:

in violence and actual, you know, war and things like that,

Kalee Boisvert:

historically, when women ruled?

Unknown:

Yeah, women of the ancient world had to do what men

Unknown:

did. So the first woman I talk about in the book, when women

Unknown:

will the world is a is the only woman who didn't become a female

Unknown:

king in the lineup, but she's very good as a king, and her

Unknown:

name is Mary Kay. And she is a queen of the first dynasty. And

Unknown:

she rolled on behalf of her young son, who then when he grew

Unknown:

up, took over and buried her as a king in the in the royal

Unknown:

cemetery. This woman when her son was thrown in throne

Unknown:

crowned, she ended up engaging in the same human sacrifice that

Unknown:

had occurred in her father's reign. And that would occur when

Unknown:

her son died after so the first dynasty is known for human

Unknown:

sacrifice. When the king dies, not a couple of people and not

Unknown:

enemies of state, that people have the court, wives of the

Unknown:

king, sons of the King brothers of the king, these people would

Unknown:

be sacrificed. And we don't even know exactly how poisoned maybe

Unknown:

some sort of blunt force trauma, it's not clear, but hundreds of

Unknown:

bodies around the body of the king and they were purposefully

Unknown:

buried all at one time. So you could look at some women and

Unknown:

say, women ruled differently and make that blanket statement. In

Unknown:

some ways. I'll agree with you within the context of a

Unknown:

patriarchy. However, women do what they need to do if they're

Unknown:

occupying the position of a man is the decision holder that a

Unknown:

man would have the place that him And what happens, if it is

Unknown:

expected that blood be spilled, she will do it and marinate when

Unknown:

she puts her son on the throne or she watches her son be put on

Unknown:

the throne by all of these priests. And it is expected that

Unknown:

this human sacrifice take place, we can assume that she made the

Unknown:

decision about who lived and who died. And it's a very

Unknown:

interesting thing that she decided that more males would be

Unknown:

sacrificed. And it's a defensive strategic strategy, right? To

Unknown:

make sure that not too many males were around of her son's

Unknown:

age of her son stature to take his power away. So she's the

Unknown:

best offense for her was a good defense. And she she made the

Unknown:

decision not to kill as many wives for her for the burial of

Unknown:

her former husband, but her dead husband, but instead to kill

Unknown:

more of the males that could potentially compete with her

Unknown:

son. So her being a woman didn't make her any more Pacific. It

Unknown:

didn't make her any calmer. She had to do what she had to do. I

Unknown:

will say, though, that the expectations of a woman and the

Unknown:

way a woman is embedded in society generally do make a

Unknown:

woman less violent than a man, I agree with you. I think that if

Unknown:

there was a woman, President of Russia, well, first of all, I

Unknown:

don't think it would be as as drastically authoritarian as it

Unknown:

is. And secondly, I don't think that you would do something so

Unknown:

boneheaded ly stupid is just decide to invade another place

Unknown:

and take it like this is mine. It's just such bullying,

Unknown:

playground behavior, right. And I also like to think as a

Unknown:

historian looking at things over a very long duration of time, my

Unknown:

history goes back 5000 years, I like to think that we are now

Unknown:

existing in a late stage patriarchy, patriarchy is

Unknown:

failing, and it's failing before our eyes. I'd also like to

Unknown:

remind your listeners that patriarchy is very young, in the

Unknown:

long term scheme of things. 10,000 years old, at best, were

Unknown:

where we are in the United States, maybe four or 500 years

Unknown:

old, you know, in most very young, this idea of farming and

Unknown:

hoarding resources and social inequality and, and violent

Unknown:

invasions and things like that. Not that you didn't have islands

Unknown:

before. But this this kind of patriarchal hoarding, and seeing

Unknown:

a forest of value only when it's cut down and made into lumber.

Unknown:

This is, this is rather new, and it's not something that's

Unknown:

sustainable anymore. I think we all feel it. It's interesting

Unknown:

that it's something that unites both right and left, both right

Unknown:

and left, look at the world around us and go, Oh, my God, we

Unknown:

are all of us perched on the edge of a cliff, ready to jump

Unknown:

into, we don't know what Now, some people on the hard right

Unknown:

will say, Well, we have to go back, we have to go back to what

Unknown:

we had before. And they'll be like, no, no, we're not, we're

Unknown:

just not going to go there. We're just gonna go back as if

Unknown:

that's possible, right? And most of society is like, no, no, no,

Unknown:

we have almost 8 billion people on the planet, something's

Unknown:

happening, people are deciding not to get married not to have

Unknown:

babies. In Los Angeles, where I live, the amount of people

Unknown:

opting out of society entirely, as homeless junkies is

Unknown:

extraordinary. Or they're just like, you know, I'm just not

Unknown:

going to do anything. It's amazing to see and disturbing.

Unknown:

But you can see society changing very quickly around you. And to

Unknown:

see all of those things is it's, it just makes one realize that

Unknown:

we are on the edge of something very big. And what can Egypt

Unknown:

teach us from this, I mean, Egypt teaches us that human

Unknown:

beings, if they can just recreate it and do it all again,

Unknown:

they will, they'll they'll have the downward slide. And then

Unknown:

they'll build it all back up, again, another downward slide,

Unknown:

build it all back up again. And they'll do that again and again.

Unknown:

But we're reaching a point where the earth isn't going to sustain

Unknown:

that kind of smashing and grabbing that kind of male

Unknown:

against male violence. And people are seeing it very

Unknown:

clearly for what it is the social inequalities, the race

Unknown:

inequalities, that gender inequalities, and people are

Unknown:

pissed off, and, and opting out in their ways creating their own

Unknown:

black markets, if you will, their own their own side.

Unknown:

hustles. But there's a lot of anger, I guess, people have to

Unknown:

be worth $300 billion, like Jeff Bezos, before we realized that

Unknown:

we have kings in our myths, too.

Kalee Boisvert:

Yeah. Yeah, that yeah, where the money is, the

Kalee Boisvert:

power is as well now, that's where it resides, which is

Kalee Boisvert:

interesting. So what can we say that like, can we take like, it

Kalee Boisvert:

sounds like, okay, there were women rulers, but oftentimes,

Kalee Boisvert:

they were following by the rules and almost like, the strategy

Kalee Boisvert:

was, you know, to stay there and to appease the men, it was, you

Kalee Boisvert:

know, follow the rules and do it this way. So can we can we learn

Kalee Boisvert:

from the rulers of the past these women or is it you know,

Kalee Boisvert:

can we learn what not to do or what we can do because you're

Kalee Boisvert:

right there is that what did you call it that Hillary Clinton

Kalee Boisvert:

where it was, you know, she was evil and a terrible person. And

Kalee Boisvert:

so it's just like, you can't win that and it's, you know, you go

Kalee Boisvert:

under the radar and you follow the sort of Male kind of

Kalee Boisvert:

expectation or you stand out from the crowd and you get booed

Kalee Boisvert:

just as much and, and yeah, call up like that your your mean and

Kalee Boisvert:

looked at like as a man or something like that and bossy or

Kalee Boisvert:

whatever they want to call you. So what is it? What can we

Kalee Boisvert:

learn? Or what can we do now,

Unknown:

with Egyptian women can teach us how a patriarchal

Unknown:

society works. And we can learn that way. Egypt is so useful to

Unknown:

me as you look at Egypt, and you're like, Oh, my God, look at

Unknown:

those weird crowns. There's some silly oh my god, look at those

Unknown:

weird gods, we would never do that. And then the more you

Unknown:

study them more I study them. The more I write about them, the

Unknown:

more I realize we're just like them. But Egypt allows us to see

Unknown:

rule that's over the top, you know, I am a God King. And we

Unknown:

don't see it in our own society because they're dressed like us.

Unknown:

They're they use our own ciphers. I'm sure it was the

Unknown:

same in Egypt, too. And even when you know, these guys have

Unknown:

private islands and jets and yachts that are like, you can't

Unknown:

even believe it, right? We still don't really see the power right

Unknown:

in front of our eyes. And the reason I use Egypt is because as

Unknown:

my main comparison for studying the world around me today, is

Unknown:

because it's so obvious the social inequalities, the

Unknown:

inequities, the the grab, and you know, the power plays. And I

Unknown:

think we need to see more of that in our world today. Did we

Unknown:

did the Egyptians, the women teach us anything? I mean, they

Unknown:

they teach us what it's like to get pushed back down, they teach

Unknown:

us what back lashes, they teach us that as soon as we think

Unknown:

we've made it, that we have another year of the woman,

Unknown:

they're going to push us back down again, they teach us that

Unknown:

having a female body is probably the biggest liability, and it's

Unknown:

something we will never change. Because if we want to have

Unknown:

children, this is something we have to go along with. If you

Unknown:

cannot transcend your breasts and your ovaries, it's not going

Unknown:

to happen. You can deny them. But is that what makes you happy

Unknown:

is that when you're on your deathbed, and you're dying,

Unknown:

you're gonna be like, Oh, I built a corporation, you're

Unknown:

gonna be like, I'm my children, which is and I think the man

Unknown:

would feel the same way. Right? What makes you happy? And on

Unknown:

your deathbed. That's what I always think about it. Like,

Unknown:

what do I want on my deathbed? What am I going to be working

Unknown:

towards? I wrote a lot about this. You mentioned when women

Unknown:

ruled the world, but I wrote a book recently called the good

Unknown:

kings, which deals with all of these feminists tropes. Money

Unknown:

Power, how this works, but through a hard patriarchal lens,

Unknown:

looking at kingship, and my last chapter is like, well, what the

Unknown:

hell do we do now? We're stuck in this patriarchal system. It's

Unknown:

the water in which we swim, we can hardly see anything else.

Unknown:

How are we supposed to overcome this? How are we supposed to

Unknown:

find our way forward, and it is happening all around us, we just

Unknown:

we need to look at those things. We need to look at women out

Unknown:

earning college degrees, women acting as breadwinners of their

Unknown:

family, women acting as caretakers. And as breadwinners,

Unknown:

we need to see how people are opting out of binary gender

Unknown:

entirely. And we have a whole transgender movement that is we

Unknown:

also see at the same time the the vociferous and very brutal

Unknown:

pushback in states like Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, we could go

Unknown:

on Georgia, right. And we see the racism very clearly, around

Unknown:

us as well. So I suppose what what I would say is that, we

Unknown:

need to realize that just because we're modern, and we

Unknown:

have televisions and iPads, and mics, you know, like, I'm

Unknown:

talking to you with the headphones, whatever, space

Unknown:

spaceships and satellites that were just animals on this

Unknown:

planet, and we need to get along with this planet. And I think

Unknown:

the last chapter of my book, I'm like, Okay, how do we smash the

Unknown:

patriarchy? How does that even work? What is it? And so these

Unknown:

women teach us what patriarchy is teach us how it keeps you in

Unknown:

your place. And it's it teaches us that it takes a very long

Unknown:

time to undo patterns of seeing and ways of being, you know,

Unknown:

like, I'm 50 years old. And, and, you know, 30 years ago, I

Unknown:

would just be some old gross lady, and now we see women

Unknown:

maintaining a sexual hotness into their crone years. And I

Unknown:

intend to try to do that, as well, right? By showing wrinkles

Unknown:

and being normal and not plastic surgery in it for a man and

Unknown:

getting the boob job and all of that, but, but embracing a

Unknown:

different kind of feminine attraction and trying to not go

Unknown:

silent and unseen. as I age, there's all kinds of things that

Unknown:

I could talk about that the patriarchy totally messes with

Unknown:

our brains about, and how if we see it, clearly, we use a place

Unknown:

like Egypt to see it. We're like, Oh, crap, it's everywhere.

Unknown:

It's all around us. And that we're just as ancient as we ever

Unknown:

were. So how are we going to make something really, really

Unknown:

new? And really different that works for all this? I think we

Unknown:

can all agree that society right now looks pretty bad.

Kalee Boisvert:

Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. Well thank you so

Kalee Boisvert:

much. I love this conversation. I could talk this kind of stuff

Kalee Boisvert:

all day long. I know very much like the focus of my book, which

Kalee Boisvert:

is really about women and money and, and trying to exactly

Kalee Boisvert:

understand that and how can we change this? And just yeah in

Kalee Boisvert:

ourselves like how can we really be happy and satisfied then as

Kalee Boisvert:

women in our careers in our financial lives and with family

Kalee Boisvert:

and all that to resolve this pressure? So, love this

Kalee Boisvert:

conversation? If anyone wants to read further, what's the best

Kalee Boisvert:

way for them to I guess, reach out to you or find your books or

Kalee Boisvert:

anything like that?

Unknown:

Yeah, if you Google my name Kara with a que Cooney with

Unknown:

a C, you'll find my website pretty easily. Okay, and you can

Unknown:

go from there. I have a podcast called afterlives with Kara

Unknown:

Cooney, and I make the ancient world relevant. And we look at

Unknown:

the past and I'm like, Oh, my God, this is still happening

Unknown:

today and look at this craziness. And we, we look at

Unknown:

where we came from, to try to understand where we are. And I'm

Unknown:

on substack. And I'm also on Facebook and Twitter. I find

Unknown:

myself posting there less and, and trying to control a little

Unknown:

bit more of my content now that what's his face is by Twitter,

Unknown:

you know where to go, right? Elon Musk, and so, you know, all

Unknown:

these billionaires, all these kings, just taking more and

Unknown:

more. It's very annoying. And so I like to go to those platforms

Unknown:

that are a little smaller, more Mom and Pop, and try to say more

Unknown:

there.

Kalee Boisvert:

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And I can

Kalee Boisvert:

include some of that in the show notes as well. Oh, yeah. Great.

Kalee Boisvert:

Thank you so much. That was awesome. I love this

Kalee Boisvert:

conversation.

Unknown:

Thank you so much, Kaylee. It was fun.

Kalee Boisvert:

It's good. It's empowering as women talking

Kalee Boisvert:

about this because it's like, Okay, we got work to do and we

Kalee Boisvert:

know it now. And let's be aware, and let's do something about it.

Kalee Boisvert:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much. Thank you everyone

Kalee Boisvert:

for listening into this episode, and I will catch you on next

Kalee Boisvert:

week's episode. Good bye for now.

Kalee Boisvert:

I hope you found value in this episode. And because I'm such a

Kalee Boisvert:

proponent of taking confident action, I want to pose a

Kalee Boisvert:

question to you the listener. What is one action that you feel

Kalee Boisvert:

inspired to take after listening to today's episode? If you enjoy

Kalee Boisvert:

listening, please subscribe and share with your friends and

Kalee Boisvert:

family. Thank you so much and I will catch you next time.