Realizing There Is No Gap - Carla Rotering

Welcome to The Ultimate Coach podcast conversations from being inspired by the book The Ultimate Coach, written by Amy Hardison, and Alan Thompson. Join us each week with the intention of expanding your state of being, and your experience will be remarkable. Remember, this is a podcast about be, it is a podcast about you. To explore more deeply, visit the ultimate Coach book.com. Now, enjoy today's conversation from be

welcome to another episode of The Ultimate coach Podcast. I'm Meredith Bell, one of your hosts for the show. And our guest today is Carla Rotering , who is featured in several places in the book of being also known as the ultimate coach. As I was rereading her beautiful contributions, I just knew that she would have a lot to share with us on the podcast. So Carla, I am so delighted to welcome you to the show. Oh,

Thank you so much, Meredith, I haven't really moved to be here and have just even a small piece to contribute to the growing message and understanding that's emerged from this work.

Mm hmm. Yeah. And I know you have so much to contribute, I think it would be fun and interesting for our listeners, to kind of roll back to when you first met Steve, how did you meet him get acquainted with him.

So I met Steve in probably a different context than than a lot of folks, because Steve and I were students together at the University of Santa Monica. So we were classmates. And in that context, you know, you just everybody's sort of on a level playing field, and you don't have that social context at all. But you also don't have a very large, professional context. And they're to do something together. That is psycho spiritual in nature. And so that drew us to a shared understanding AMA, and ultimately a collaboration that sort of marked the beginning of our relationship is unique from my point of view. And, and we, you know, we didn't really connect very much in the very beginning. But as we move through the curriculum, there's a project that you do in the second year, and they try to create project teams that are geographical so that you can meet in person and do those kinds of things. So there were four of us from Phoenix, and Steve and I were two of those people who met to sort of roll up our sleeves and support each other in those projects. And, and that's where I think our opportunity to know each other at a deeper level really began to unfold.

And in particular, speaking of the project that was referred to in the book, the AMI project, what did you think about that?

So I look back on this now, and, honestly, we did not know a lot about, you know, what we did, we had kind of had some glimmer of what we did, but here's what I thought that I knew about Steve, I thought that he had been the CEO of something important, and that somehow he no longer had that job. And that whatever had surrounded that he was now at home doing something out of his garage. That was my understanding. And when, when this project came up, you know, we all pick doing stuff, right? And Steve chose to bring his time and his attention to his wife, Amy. And I, although the romantic part of me really love to that. The, you know, the part of me that was in the world and really wanted something different and better for Steve, the way that I understood his life at that time. I was really frustrated with him, like I really wanted to just sit him down and say, okay, don't let this opportunity pass you by. This is an opportunity to create something that will get you back on your feet and out in the world and at the head of some company. And, and he was so sweet. When I when I sort of would insinuate those things And so loving and so kind and so firm in his devotion to the project that he has chosen. And it took me a few weeks into the project to go, oh, oh, oh, yeah, he really doesn't need me to tinker in his professional. well being. But, but I moved, though, you know, I interfaced with him from that misunderstanding, as though what he did was the most important thing that I could identify about the opportunity that this project would bring to him.

And did you see any difference with him over time as he worked on that project with me?

You know, he was. So first of all, he was kind of like a kid in a candy store. Right? This is his favorite person on the planet. As far as I can tell, and he sort of was in awe. I mean, and that all continued to grow. And he was just kind of bubbled over with the awe that he was experiencing by bearing witness to this woman who has a very independent experience of life, and is also so deeply connected to him. So he saw things about her that he hadn't seen before. And he looked for them. You know, I mean, he looked different eyes during the course of this project, and saw things that not only expanded his loving and his reverence, and his regard for Amy, but also expanded him in ways that that was obvious to those of us on his project team, that He also continued to open an open and open throughout the course of that compact. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I remember reading that in the book to his AMI project and the devotion he had towards it, I love having you bring it to life like that. Because I think for each of us, one of the takeaways is, who in our lives, whether it's our spouse, one of our kids, or someone else who's really important to us, how do we make a project out of learning more about that person, and then creating them at the same time, so that we ended up with this deeper and more meaningful relationship? I just saw that as an inspiration to really look beyond the superficial that we often see with someone we may live with day in and day out, to go deeper in terms of really trying to understand them. Did that, watching him do that? Did that have an impact on your relationships? Or on the way you were seeing others?

Yeah, I mean, I, it is certainly translated to my, you know, my immediate family, that sort of little intimate inner space that we share with only people who know us the best. Oftentimes, I'm not sure that's true for Steve. But it's but for me in that moment, it was really is sort of allowed me to also do what I witnessed him doing, which was to see through different eyes, right? To set aside anything that I thought I might know about, especially about my children who were adults at that time, especially about my children, and to just see them as really divine souls walk in the years on their own divine path, that I wasn't in charge. And wasn't only occurring in relationship to my maternity to them, right. So it really, it really lifted me up to a higher place from which to, to really be with my immediately, immediate family. And I also think merit of that is that it sort of seeped into my professional relationships. So that when I showed up at a bedside, I was bringing something different to that bedside, that awareness that this also is a unique, divine, being having an experience of life that is far more expansive than these 12 have minutes.

Hope and I think this would be a good time share what your profession is, oh people who understand what it was you were doing? Yeah. Interacting with.

Yeah, so I have been a pulmonary at that time was doing critical care. So pulmonary critical care physician for almost four years now. And then was very, very, very busy doc and was also involved in leadership. So when I met Steve, I had about an 80 to 90 Hour Work Week, and I was Chief of Staff of a 1200 member, medical staff at a hospital in Phoenix. And I was a single mom. So, so I had what I call sort of white knuckled my way into, you know, into the place that I was occupying at that time. And that's part of what got me to USM in the first place was an awareness that, you know, my, my clenched fists were getting weary. Yeah, so that's what I did. And, and it really instilled new part time and that and it really did sort of soften my my bedside stance. And I've always had a lot of caring for my patients. But I also was very attached to I was the expert, right? To allow people to, to really take the position of being the expert of their own lives, is probably the the most powerful thing that that came forward for me when I watched Steve navigate this extraordinary journey of the AMI project and his 10 inch binder. Company. Hmm.

Thank you. Well, I'm curious because some time passed. And you then ended up coaching with Steve, so talk about how, how you were led to consider him as a coach.

You know, it's interesting, because I I don't even know if Steve knows this. But Steve Hardison was not my first choice. I was at USM, in a course that Steve Chandler was one of the faculty members. And he was and I was, I was taken by Steve Jimmer, I was at the edge of my chair every time he spoke. And once the course was completed, I cut him by the sleeve and sat him down and said, Would you would you coach me? And he said, Oh, no, no, you need to go. I'm not going to coach you, you need to go to Hardison. And I thought, well, let's just reject it. And when I say that to Chandler, now, he says, I don't remember that, but it happened. So I sat with that for maybe two days. And just had this like, clarity. That that was a message delivered to me with purpose. So I called Steve. I didn't have a lot of deep questioning about it. I didn't like wringing my hands. I, I just, I just had this like, Oh, thanks for that information. Yeah. So I showed up with Steve and I had no book you know, I had a notebook and a helm, I stuffed it in my notebook, but all the all the expectations that I would have for this first year because I want to make sure I get plenty of bang for my buck. Right. And, and again, you know, he meets all of that with with such incredible brace and there's a kind of delight that sort of mixed up with like, compassion. I mean, it's it's almost rascal ish, you know? That like the caring but, you know, he he said, Oh, yeah, that's, that's really good, Carla. We're gonna put that aside and I'm going to, we're going to start here. We're going to start looking for your listening. And I thought, Oh, for crying out loud. I'm busy. And I don't even know what you're talking about. Right? But it started in that space really beginning to become far more In Summon, with what drove my days, what anchored my, the reality of my experience, recognize really beginning to recognize that thought that all resided within me and not out there, which is where I wanted it to be, so that I could complain. And, and really be and I wasn't, you know, I wasn't a novice to this journey, I just finished a two year degree in spiritual psychology. So I was well primed to continue to deepen that inner awareness, and continue to recognize that that kind of wisdom was liberating.

So unexpected questions, and, and comments. And and I guess, somewhat challenges from what you had, in your mind going into this conversation? What what you expected, it was a major shift required for you to adapt to what Steve had in mind, assuming he had something in mind, but what he was focusing on compared to what you thought you would be focusing on?

Well, right, because I, you know, as I look back on that, I think, when I showed up, you know, on his doorstep, that I really expected him to be sort of a performance coach. And again, you have to remember that I really didn't explore very deeply with either Steve Hardison, or Steve Chandler who sent me in his direction, you know, how he, what the nature of his work was. So I knew that he worked for some really pretty impressive companies, my impression was that he would, he would help me perform in areas that I didn't feel I had competencies yet. Hmm. So but but but the other thing for me is that I've always been pretty agile, in sort of moving from one space to, to seeing it differently, or being willing to, you know, see what shows up. I was pretty, so did take a shift, but it wasn't like, painful or sacrificial or harm. There were some hard things, but shifting my mindset was not in the beginning was not, was not one of those things.

So, you know, the whole book is about the book of being the whole being movement is about who we are being. So talk a little bit about that approach, because you were saying you thought it'd be more performance based, but of course, we know, that's not where we're Steve focuses? What What was it about your way of being that you had a heart or insights about as you worked with him?

Yeah, well, I probably very much like, like, most of us, you know, my awareness was, and I and I had begun, you know, this, this path again, but being really able to see ever more clearly how the limitation, the feel, the possibilities that I thought were available, to me, was set in place, by my thinking, by my, by my own limitations, by my limiting beliefs, by my, by my young fears, and old rigidities by a yearning to be seen in a certain way, by the world with the belief that that would somehow sort of certify my value. And so a lot of I've done a lot of really good things in the world. Right. But what I recognize that is that I had some parallel drives towards those good things. One of them was this innate, deep desire to be of loving service and I don't ever remember not having that. That desire, sort of blank Getting that in a way that made that less forceful? Was this. Also this incredible desire to have the world see me as somebody who did good things in the world, right? In the end, those old, old, old, you know, beliefs that what I did meant something about me

Know what you're describing, Carla, but every person listening has been there looking at the external world for validation, instead of appreciating our own worth. And to me, one of the most moving stories in the book was years, where it was the one where you even talked about it as being a sacred time. Because Steve was with you. And this is one of those places where I really imagined him saying this to me, every reader, you're so close. Only knew you are so close, if you just leaned in a little bit, you're already there. Yeah. I just loved that. Because it helps us, to me anyway, imagining the lack of a gap that we perceive many times between who we want to be where we want to be aware, we see ourselves, what was the meaning of that for you? That moment, when he said that to you? What did that do?

Well, it was startling. For me, first of all, because I'm trained in the gap conversation, right? This is where you are, this is where you want to go. What do you have to do in this gap to get from here to here? And Steve, of course, was, what if there was nothing to do except to be there? And what would it take? Who would you need to be? By? Would creation? How would you presents yourself? That's kind of the word that I use these days. But, you know, how would I presents myself to not be over here on this edge, but, and then figure out a way to build a rope or something to get to the other side. And I was one of those people always had 18 steps between now and that. Right. And I would check them off, and I would draw pictures of them. And you know, and outline it and all of that stuff. So, you know, so that I had this really sudden awareness that the gap was an imaginary space. Right. And that it was an imaginary space that occupied a lot of my time and attention. Which is, which if I can just kind of dirt just the bed, which is why everything was so hard for me. Right? If you have 18 steps to get to something that you could just fall into. I mean, that's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. I, for years, I kept an appliance on the bottom shelf of my cupboards in the back, and I use it fairly frequently. And something that was in front of it I hardly ever used. And for years, I would get down on my hands and knees. And I would take that piece out and I grabbed the one that I wanted and put it up to the counter. But the other one that use it, go back down, take the first one out put I mean, I did this for years until I realized I didn't have to put them in that order anymore. I mean, it was that kind of awareness where like, I've been doing this all this time. And it was never required. So there was there was that. Now I will also say to you that it scared the big. Other me It scared me. Right. And that really supported me and saying, This is what I say, is that true? Am I saying this? Because I don't actually believe I'll ever get there. Or and I and is that coming from that place? Again? Of how would I like people to see me? So, you know, it just continued to excavate down to that really fundamental innate space that is Carla and draw me into probably the most authentic inquiry with myself that I've ever experienced.

I'd love for you to talk more about what kind of enquiring did you do that helped you come to this realization that there didn't have to be a gap, that that was something you are putting in place. But I would just love for you to talk a little bit about that, because I think all of us have that inner exploring, that we can do when we officially and truly believe, you know, I've sincerely believed so many of the limitations that I've seen for myself or opportunities. And through studying this whole way of being, and realizing it doesn't have to be that way. And and I love hearing you talk about those realizations. So I'd love to explore a little bit more about what was some of that? Inquiring you did?

Well, some of it was it was on Chris, I had an ongoing coaching experience with Steve so that that led, but some of it was really. And I think Steve talked about this, and continues to talk about this book was that than sitting quietly and really discerning where those thoughts were coming from, whose they were. Right. So, for instance, as I did, and I did a lot of journaling, and I did a lot of content. I'm a pretty contemplative person. And so I experience things that come through when I'm quiet. And I'm also a scribbler. So I scribble kind of scribble at the same time. But you know, when I read, I remember so clearly one of the first things that I can remember, as a little girl, as my mother, who was just an extraordinarily loving human being, saying to me, that's not for people like us. We are hard workers, we work hard, you know, we earn people's respects. But that that's not for people like us. And, and to really sit with that single thoughts, which is sort of just a representative of a million things we've probably heard or said to ourselves. And, by the way, I have this, this experience of when I have a thought that is that central to my machinery that I started looking for proof that that's true. Right? So you see that thing over there? See, that's what I'm saying? That that's not for people like us, I see that thing over there. So, for somebody like me, I'll never get there. And of course, the paradox is that, you know, as a kid from a from a Town on the Prairie with 100 people in it, whose mother died when I was 16. And Father kind of gave me 50 bucks and said, bye, who became a physician? You know, like, my biggest dream was to marry a farmer, because you'd always have food. You know, so there was that paradox that my life did not reflect that belief, at least in certain aspects. But I really spent a lot of time than I, and develop this pattern of, sort of, Oh, there I go thinking that again. And not with judgment. I mean, the other thing that happens through that process is that I stopped bullying myself for the love thoughts that were coming through and got curious and you know, you cannot bully and be curious at the same time.

So that was a profound piece of my coaching with Steve is just that simple awareness that, that there was nothing to do except to show up. And he would say, you know, given this, what do you want to create, who do you need to be to create that? And those were instant responses, you know, just instant responses. I could take a piece of paper and write down. Well, this is this is how I would need to show up, and this is, you know, this is what I want to create, and this is who I would need to be, this is how I would need to presents myself, this is my beingness that would have to be my operating model or operating system to move forward in that way. I made mistakes, you know, it's like, so what I mean, that's kind of Steve's the Steve's sort of relationship with, uh, he doesn't see he didn't see mistakes. But that was like, okay, so what that does, so let's so now what? Yeah,

Well, you know, I just love so much of what you're saying, we can explore all kinds of areas, I want to just kind of pull together some things because one of the things you talked about, was sitting with that one thought. And too often, it's sort of like you're saying the 18 steps too often, we're thinking, I gotta identify all these things, all the things that are holding me back, when in fact, if we get away from quantity, and look at the quality of our thinking, so we can focus on what is that one central theme? Perhaps that keeps popping up? That's causing us to judge ourselves to close off possibilities. So I really liked that. I it's this whole thing of slowing down, taking the time, instead of the doing part, right. And, and the whole idea of what could I create from this, instead of being stuck at the thoughts? Because it's all thoughts, isn't it? We can have thoughts of opportunity, as easily as thoughts of problems, depending on the lens we're looking through.

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, we generate somewhere between 80 and 120,000 thoughts a day. And at least 80% of those thoughts, according to neuroscience are felt to be redundant. And 80% of our thoughts are negative self talk. So that's a lot of material to navigate if you're going to pay attention. Even a bit of that, and we, you know, we have evolved in a way that has us default to that negative because then it helps us gear up to stay safe. Right, just from a neurophysiologic standpoint, right. So some of that is to also just understand, these are just chemicals. This is just a, you know, a thought generating system that produces this sort of neurochemical experience, and it will dissipate in six seconds. takes about six seconds for the physiology to go away. So I also had that advantage of having that understanding that as long as I didn't attach to, you know, and make meaning of a thought that was no more meaningful than a cloud passing in the sky. That it would pass. Yeah, it didn't have to occupy. Meaning,

You know, you're talking about the thought passing. The other thing I love that you were saying that, you know, Steve was talking about was this whole idea of so what, you know, if you've done something, if you've made a mistake, it's been very helpful for me, to have him, hear him talk about just clean up your mess, and move on. So you take responsibility, it's not that you're ignoring what you've done. But you Don't wallow in it. That to me was, is so freeing about how I want to be who I want to be is not someone that keeps dwelling on past mistakes, but recognizing them, and then do I need to make amends? Do I need to apologize? What do I need to do to clean it up and then to let it go? And that, to me is the power of that. So what it doesn't have to keep impacting my thinking and my feelings going forward?

Yeah. And it doesn't have to be a roadblock. Doesn't have to be something that stops you in your tracks. And you let it have its way with you that we have dominion over, you know, the experiences that that emerge from, you know, that are part of our inner landscape. And that's what creates our experience. Hmm,

I want to also ask you about one of the other stories in there that just really stuck with me. I think I relate to some of these stories because I, they're universal in terms of things we, as humans experienced, this was the situation where you had an issue with your business partner. And Steve was encouraging you to address it, and then talk to him about what you did about it, the next time you came in. And saw, I'd love for you to share what happened when you came back.

Next. You know, I knew in the moment that I was making that agreement that I was going to, I just did not want to do this. But I did have actually a pretty serious conflict with my, my partner, something that mattered a lot. And I was the senior part. But there was some details of this that made me really, really uncomfortable about bringing this forward. And I saw it as a confrontation. But we talked through that. And he we made I agree, I made an agreement with Steve that I would have a conversation with my partner, before I came back the to my next session. So I came back to my next session, I had a three page letter that I had written to my partner, and I wish I had given it to my leg, laid it on his desk. And I said, you know, Steve, I just couldn't like, I could not find a time we couldn't, I couldn't find a time to meet with him. You know, we we work all these hours, and he was never there when I was there. You know, I looked at his schedule, and it was full and my schedule anyway. So I just gave him this letter. So I like to read it. And he said, you know, that is not even believable. You work in the same office, like you're working in the same office, there isn't a single reason that I can think of that you just talked about or something like that. That is any kind of excuse for not keeping this agreement. Like what you just said, is just not even believable. This is not believable. And, you know, I knew in the moment I was utterly deflated, because I was I was just certain that he would buy my story. And you don't choose Meredith was that I actually didn't see it as a story. Until Until that, that confrontation, let them know well, until that truth from Steve. And I knew as soon as I heard those words that I already knew those words. Right? I ultimately had the conversation and that stuff did get managed tonight. And I got a lot of support from from Steve around having that conversation because this was something that sort of invited a very young aspect of myself to take the wheel, right. And so to really help that helped me step into that more evolved Higher Self with altitude was really sort of the crux of, of the work that we did around that. But what it also did for me was to help me see the spaces in which it well, I don't know spaces, how masterful I was at being slippery with myself. Right? Without creating this sort of good sort of magnificent stories about what limited me by something was impossible, and that all of those, all of those excuses were noble. And so I got dispensation, I got to be off the hook. Because, I mean, I was busy saving lives. Right? And, and really noticing how often I would do that, that I would sort of create this story that was palatable to me, that would let me off the hook and not have me be accountable for how I was showing up and how I was, how I was being.

There's so many takeaways from that when, and I think it's helpful to imagine having a conversation with Steve or someone that we hold in high regard and just a man Imagine, would they say the same thing to us? That's not even believable. That's not even the truth to, you know, so that we can learn to do that for ourselves. You know, and it's that whole evaluation is what I'm thinking true, is what I'm saying. really true. And digging deeper, I just think that the instances that you've shared, and the insights that you acquired from doing this work, has had a huge impact in who you are being in the world today. And, Carla, this has just been such a special and wonderful conversation, is there anything else, as we wrap up that you have thought about during our talk that you would like to share?

I have a little sticker on my wall behind my computer that says, I am living love. And that's, I directly stole that. From how I see, Steve. And there was a time when I believe that Steve held an exalted position. And just like that gap, that there was not a way for me to be how I saw Steve that there were lots of other things that had opened up to me, but to be like, Steve, Well, Steve was special. And yes, I mean, I, I show, love and regard Steve Hardison, and I, too, am living love.

Thank you. That's beautiful way to wrap up, because I think it reinforces something else that I have heard him say multiple times, there's nothing I do, that you can't also do or be. And I think you just express that beautifully, that we each can be that be can be living love. So thank you, Carla, for your beautiful spirit for your beautiful sharing. It's been such an honor to have this time with you. And I know this is going to be just very beneficial to our listeners. Thank you.

Thank you for everything you do.