Being in the Miraculous Present Moment - Mike Kotsis

Welcome to The Ultimate Coach podcast conversations from being inspired by the book The Ultimate coach, written by Amy Hardison, and Alan Thompson. Join us each week with the intention of expanding your state of being, and your experience will be remarkable. Remember, this is a podcast about be. It is a podcast about you. To explore more deeply, visit theultimateCoachbook.com. Now, enjoy today's conversation from being

Welcome to another episode of The Ultimate Coach Podcast. I'm Meredith Bell, one of the hosts for the show. And today I am so excited to welcome as my guest, Mike Kotsis, Mike, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Meredith, thank you for having me here today.

You know, Mike, there are so many things that we'll be talking about that I know, our listeners will benefit from. And I want to encourage them to get out a notepad or something to write on because I just know from our earlier conversations, there's so much for you to share that will be so beneficial to people who are focused on who they're being in the world. And so I'd like to start with just having you tell us how did you come to learn about Steve Hardison and you've coached with him, how did all that happen?

Sure, thank you. And in first I just want to acknowledge you and thank you for your your your thoughtful questions, and your just your loving demeanor and the place you come from. It's just it's so refreshing on every podcast I've heard in an art calls in the past and just really excited to be with you today. And how I came to know of Steve Hardison. It originally came through Steve Chandler and Steve Chandler's book writings, all the books that he writes about some epiphany or some aha that he that he had for his home life that he took to his coach. And I was forever intrigued. I think the book that stuck out to me the most was right now that mastering the present moment and being in that present moment. And I just remember when I read that I that book, there's I don't even remember the story. But there was a feeling that I just I knew one day, I wanted to be with Steve and I looked at his website, and I said, No way, that's impossible, and just kind of put it on the shelf for a while. Until that they finally came. And when I did, I worked with Steve Chandler for a number of years, and he was phenomenal and helped me to see things that I didn't see. And ultimately, being with Steve Hardison was just a true blessing. It was just a true blessing. That's That's it can be in the loving presence of somebody that's that's really done the work and is really shining his light brightly, to help others see their own.

And I know that you've read and studied the book of being the ultimate coach. In fact, you've shared it with your family, as well, I would love for you to talk about what were some of the key takeaways for you from that book? And what impact did they have in your decisions about who you want it to be?

Yeah, thank you for that I did. I read the book last year, five times. And as I went through the went through the book, it was also while I was working with Steve and I will tell you, I had so many insights from the book itself and seeing something new about me some of the, you know, one of the most significant ones was early on with my relationship with with Jill, my my wife, and I would refer to her as, as my wife, Jill and the past and now she's my girlfriend. That was one of the biggest insights is creating date, the daily creation of our relationship and seeing the way Stephen Amy create each other was an example to me. You know, from the standpoint is that we have four children. life gets busy, and there's a lot of things that happen. Fortunately, we had a lot of really good healthy habits for our relationship of communication and dreaming together and making time for each other. But the opportunity, the biggest opportunity that I saw from Steve's example, Walk us through the book of Bing was the daily creation of my relationship with Jill. And it happened very quickly as we started, as I started intentionally bringing this into my consciousness every day, so much that we ended up remaking her wedding ring. I think the first time that I read it, that we came through and realized that she had, she had a wedding ring who'd been married 16 years. And she had an allergic reaction several years ago to the white gold on her on her wedding ring. And so she wasn't wearing it for the last four or five years, because we're causing thinker to swell up. And, you know, we just, you know, she would wear it sometimes, but then it would cause it to swell up. And then we just, we didn't do anything about it in something in that story of the creation of our relationship and honoring our lives together. And our guide, just really got highlighted, and we went remade her wedding ring into platinum. And that was a symbol of renewal, and rejuvenation in our relationship in a whole new way. That was that was the biggest thing that really sticks out to me at the at the beginning of reading the bulk of the

I'd love for you to talk a little bit about when you say girlfriend versus wife, what is that distinction for you? Why does that make a difference in using one term versus the other.

Because I use a number of, I guess you could say terms in words. It's it's more fun, it's joyful. It's playful, it's interesting. Jill, I have the just the awesome pleasure of living with my girlfriend, my best friend, my soulmate, and a saint, all under one roof. I do. And I'm there's not one ounce of joking with that there is the woman I live with and spend my life with is so incredible. And I have so much deep respect and admiration that she pours into our children in such a powerful way as we are leading hold soul school for our children. And more on that later. But the other piece too is that she cares for all of our nutrition, making food from scratch, she pours our heart and soul into, into each of us. And it's in it's when I watch her and I see her and I really see her and what she's doing and where she's coming from. As she's doing that. It just I just have such a deep profound appreciation for her. And all all the while while she's while she's doing this, she's carrying her dog Teddy who has been paralyzed last November, and she has to excrete his bladder every day, she has to eat him, she stretches him and exercises him. And this is while helping them pursue all of our kids individual passions and helping them to, to light up the things that interest and most excite them while connecting them with friends and other people. And really creating our time together. Our prayer life is every day, and that we connect together in that way that has been recreated through the through the standpoint of being that playful, joyful spirit. When I say girlfriend, when I say soulmate when I say best friend, and oh, by the way, she's doing all of this, while taking the University of Santa Monica, she's completing her second year of that program, any other purpose than just being more true to herself as a as a wife, mother, daughter, sister, and friend. And that inspires me beyond belief.

I hear that love coming through loud and clear. And I was sitting here thinking how lucky your children are to witness parents who love and honor each other in such a powerful way. So thank you for being such a great role model for your kids. And speaking of your kids, you brought three of your four children to have individual sessions with Steve Hardison. I don't think anyone's ever done that before. And so I'd love for you to share with our listeners, what caused you to decide to do that and what did you see as being the impact of them each having that day with him?

Thank you for that insight. And I was reflecting on where that came from. And that actually came through one of the times that I read the book of being there were a couple of things that stuck out to me when I read when I read the book and it just it just kind of put them in the back of my mind as well. I can't like one of them was when Steve saw his father, I think he was about five or six years old. And he was looking out over at the mountains. And he asked, he said, Dad, can I go out? Let's go out to the mountains? And he said, Yeah, something to the effect of Yes. And I'll take you there. And then he never saw his dad again, as a broken promise. Then later in the book, there's a vignette by Gary Mahler about how he went with his son and daughter. And I'm like, Huh. And then there was a third that stuck out to me when, when Steve talked about his time at rodella, when he took his daughter, Lindsay to Delaware, because he had a work trip over her birthday. So he took her with him on her birthday to go celebrate and be with her at that point, like, Well, why, why can't I do that? Even better yet? How can I do that, instead of creating why I can't. And that's where the idea kind of surfaced for me that that wouldn't be cool. If I took them in, they got to see what I'm experiencing for themselves. And it wasn't just like, hey, I get to take them with me for a coaching session and just didn't show up, I had to create that with Steve, and then go back and create that with each one of my children, that they had to do the work, they had to attend to do the work, we read the book of being together, they had to memorize their documents and know them inside and out. And really embody those. And, you know, a clear intention or purpose of why they wanted to do that. And so it wasn't something I was going to make them do. But I offered those things out to them. And I said, Hey, then we'll do a one on one trip, just meeting you for the weekend. Of course, we're gonna go for this session with Steve and then we get dependents spend some time together, and just go and play and explore. And so that's where the idea was birthed. And towards the end of my agreement with Steve is where I had each of them come on separate trips with me. And we didn't know how long it was gonna take. They had their own session with Steve. I talked maybe 5% of the time and it was all Steven them in the way he poured into them. And the way they lit up and share from their heart, what they wanted and where they were, was just incredibly beautiful. It was a really beautiful experience.

And I think it'd be interesting to share how old your three children were at the time of those visits.

Sure, sure. My my, my son, Zachary was 12. My my daughter, Eleni was 10. Actually, she was here she was 10 when we went on the on the trip. And my younger son Samuel was six at the time. And it was really, really beautiful that they had the expressions from their souls that they that they shared, and really helped to light them up. They they saw one of the most cool things as a father was to see was asking them why they wanted to get what it was that they wanted to get out of their session with Steve. And both my older son and daughter, 12 year old and 10 year old, individually and separately told me that they wanted to have a better relationship with each other, that they wanted to have a better, more loving relationship with each other. That's what they shared with me. I can share say that those weren't thoughts that were going through my mind at that age like app was that was really incredible if that's what was on their heart. And that's what they got to see. They got to see how they can create that more intentionally going forward. And they got to see that everybody has a different point of view. And it doesn't have to be the same as their point of view, and that they're going to disagree, they will get upset, and that's okay. And they can move on from that. Now, there's no magic wand in our house, like that's our area of growth every day is a relationship and who we're being with each other and how we're showing up.

I think that's such an important point, Mike, so we don't put you and your kids on a pedestal and say, Oh, they've got it all together. Please don't you know that because the reality is we're all human beings. And there are things we're going to experience. What I love, though, about what you're sharing is the the thoughtfulness and the awareness. I think so many of us adults, you know, in our adult life, we didn't realize some of these aspects of thinking about where are we coming from? Who are we being and for kids to develop that at such a young age, the power of that in terms of how they show up in the world? What they're prepared to deal with, is just remarkable. And I know one of the other things that you mentioned is they each had prepared their own individual documents. And now, in your home, you are really emphasizing the power of those individual documents. And I would love for you to talk about how do you bring those to life in your family each day.

Thank you, Meredith. We naturally, one of the things that Jill and I have habitually done is things that impact our lives, is we we talk about them in the home, we talk about them with our kids, we share things with our children constantly. And one of those is is our document. And as I first shared mine with my family, it was really cool to see. I didn't have to ask them to be quiet. I didn't have to ask them to, you know, can you listen to this is they were attentive, and they listened. And they listened from a deep way. And it was about a year and a half ago, where I sat down with, with each of them separately, in help them to create, there's through the frustrations, limitations, irritations, that they experienced any part of their lives and help them to create their new truth. And as we as we did, that, they started practicing them themselves. And we would we would initially start in the evenings before we go to bed, we'd have them share their documents, we'd pray and read stories and then share their documents. And that's been continually evolving over time to the point where we're at now is the blessing of soul school. It's it's homeschooling without a curriculum, we're all in, in the same environment. So we get to create ourselves in the morning, we're all here together, we have a more fluid morning here together. And so we speak our documents out on a daily basis in front of each other in front of the whole family. And it's interesting how it's done, all of our kids do it a little bit differently, my younger two, like to sing it and dance it, like as they sing it, like they just they kind of perform it there. It's it's, it's pretty cool. Like they I mean, it's all coming from them. And they sing it, they they share it. And now we're seeking to reinforce hearing it in front of each other. And what we've created is an acknowledgement jar. So we have a ball glass jar sitting on the counter, where were we want to catch each other being what we're creating, and so catch each other with each other, demonstrating being your word being your document in some way. And so when we do catch each other in there, we acknowledge each other, we write it on a little sticky note, I know the listeners can't see this, but I have these little sticky notes, I pulled a couple out of the jar. In case we were going to talk about this, and we write it on there. And we say what it's for, and what what declaration that leads to and put it in there. And the thought is, is once we reach about 50 In total, that we'll do something cool with the family, and comes and goes in waves. And we're trying to encourage healthy habits and not only knowing your own document, are really listening on what is each person creating in their life in acknowledgment for that.

And I think that's so powerful to reinforce what it is each person has stated about who they are. And I think you're doing another year to kind of taking it to another level in getting those printed so that they're going to be visible for each other. Right talk a little bit about what you're doing there.

Yeah, that's that's that thank you for that as the other piece we have printed out on with their images on just regular sheets of paper that we put in a plastic sleeve because everything gets destroyed sooner or later in our in our house. And so those those are floating around, but what we realized is that we want to have a more visible and we're going to we're going to blow them up on either on a bigger frame or a canvas and put all six of ours on the on the wall in the kitchen. Because we we realized that some of us including Jill and I we have quite a few declarations on ours. And so do our older two children are younger too. They they have maybe a half dozen dozen pet mom stars or quite a few more and it's it's it's hard to remember each others and so we want to make it visual and put it in a place where we can go up and look and help to make that connection visually, not just auditorily or remembering it and that's that's That's, that's the next page on our journey that we're actually we're working on now to find a great way to display it.

That's, that's so cool. I love that it because I was just reading atomic habits by James clear and talking about when you want to get a new habit in place, making it obvious. And so putting it in your environment. So you see it often, that to me is just a great example of making that a habit so that you notice each one and because you have a purpose behind it, of these acknowledgments with her chin is so powerful. To me, one of the things I admire most, Mike about what you've just been describing, is that the fact is you're creating children who are looking for the positives and looking for the good and others, because you're not focused on criticizing where they're falling short, which happens in so many homes, and why we have so many adults that have issues with self esteem, because they were never good enough. And I love the emphasis that you're putting on with this whole environment you're creating in your home, of recognizing, not just the declaration somebody has made, but how they're putting that into practice. And so you're reinforcing the behavior you want to see in them. It's just a magnificent way of being as parents, and I want to really hold that up to you and to our listeners, because I think it's so powerful. And we can do that with everyone in our lives. When we look at and that's part of what you said earlier about creating gel every day, is how do we want to see this person so that we don't let our own filters create distortion, that's going to have them be less than what they could be. So I just love the way you're growing your children into their own individual magnificent ways of being. One of the other things I wanted to talk to you about today, because I think it's so contrary to what we're taught in the world, is this whole idea of planning. And in fact, a lot of your work is focused on helping entrepreneurs create plans. But in your own life, you had told me you weren't focused on planning so much anymore. So talk about how did you make that shift? And what are you focused on now instead of that?

Thank you, I yeah, I, before sharing that just one last comment on the previous piece is about sharing our declarations with each other. One, it's great that they are sharing it with each other and that they're doing that, really, the real reason in that it helps me, it brings it to the forefront of me of what I want to be looking for in them. Because by default, when something gets when somebody's rolling on the floor, and we're trying to get out of the house and get in the car, the natural response is irritation. I'm frustrated, we've gotta go. And the more that I lean into and see their words that are created, it's it's helping me more than anything to start looking for that in a new way. And so it's it's first it starts with me, and then I hope that that ripples throughout them. So I'm not doing it for them to start fixing something first. I'm doing it for me first and Jill first, for us to intentionally create that and then see how that flows from there. My hope is that they would, you know, they see the best in that and light up. I can't control them, nor do I want to. And I hope that they see that and feel that energy and naturally take that would be

a great point. Thank you for having that.

Sure. And back to your question about planning. A little bit of context first, and I'm planning is so I am an engineer by education I had ran my plant and my family's business for for seven years and and then became a coach for entrepreneurial leadership teams using a methodology called Eos, the Entrepreneurial Operating System. And in that I would coach leadership teams of entrepreneurial companies, which I still do today, been there for 11 years. And I help them define a vision and plan and help them build team health to help them just be in a healthy way of being with each other. I wouldn't have used those words years ago, in that way, but it's So there was there's a lot of planning a lot of goal setting a lot of intention, a lot of clarity of moving, what is the path forward? And then how do we get there. And I got very good at that, and really helped a lot of people and still continue to so much the fact that I love these tools so much I started using them in our home life, like I was telling you before we'd like to integrate things into our home life. And so Jill and I used similar principles that I was using in the business world in our family life, of defining our vision, defining our plan, defining our communication rhythm, and how do we communicate and build a healthy relationship with us. So that like in a business, you have a leadership team in the team, everybody else follows that leadership team, for better or worse. Same thing in a family, you have a leadership team of the parents or the adults in the house, the kids follow you, for better or worse, they see how you act and behave and what you say, and whether those are alignment, to tell them they know. And so as we were doing that in our lives, we we got really good at defining our goals and setting goals and going out in get them or not getting them and we would go out and get really good at getting clear and moving forward and so much that other couples came to us and asked us how we were doing this. And we built a program called the purposeful family manager for four years and helped entrepreneurial couples people with the entrepreneurial spirit to bring a set of healthy disciplines and behaviors, so their home life. And I never realized how much energy and effort that I was expending. In that part of my life, I was getting really good at integrating work life, home life, and creating a really good blend and discipline the time off and everything else over time. But I never realized how much energy that was that was taking from me until my coach at that time a few years ago is Michael Neal. And he asked me a question when I shared with him what we were doing in our own life, I shared with him my personal plan, my business plan, all this like check this out. This is can you help me with all this stuff? And I there was nothing broken or wrong. But I would I just showed him what had happened. And he just looked at me and he said, Why are you doing this? And I didn't have any words I was I just I said, I'm stuttering, like I am right now, like, this is what those orders I just said, I don't know, I don't know. In another piece of background that's important is I'm a man of faith, I always know that inside of me, and I'm pointing to my head right now. I know intellectually, that happiness comes from inside of me. And that it that it's that it's already happy. It's already there. What I didn't realize is that through the way I was relating to goal setting, and the way I was relating to setting a plan that I was on, consciously putting my happiness out in front of me somewhere into the future. What I mean by that is that, for example, when I have when my bank balance reached a certain amount, like when I have a certain amount in the bank, then we can go buy something for the house, we can then go on a vacation that we've wanted to go on, when I get another client or two, then we could have more time off. And so there was some kind of like future relief, or future breath of air that I would have when XYZ was done or delegated or what have you. And I didn't realize that I was the way I was relating to goal setting at the time was making it everything about the goal and was making it everything about the plan. And I was putting my happiness on whether pun intended unintentionally, whether I achieved it or not, was either gonna make me more happier or less happy as what the action or behavior that I was demonstrating. And when I when I realized that all in that moments of of clarity for myself. Jill and I were on vacation like that following week and I had a conversation with her just realizing that epiphany and just saying, why are we doing this? We're creating a lot of stuff for us to do like do we want why are we doing this we have some really good healthy behaviors. So we we stopped the intentional planning and our personal and family life. And we said that realizing that if happiness if I truly believe dropping from my head's in my heart, that happiness is really inside of me. Then I've got everything I need in the present moment. And the present moment will give more to what's being created in a more miraculous divine way than what my head what my brain could intellectually plan and analyze and figure out. And so for me, leaning into the miraculous present moment, became our new way of living. And it was very free. It was very, very freeing, from the standpoint is that there was all of a sudden, a newfound like inspiration and energy. That part of may have been consumed with all the intellectual analytical stuff in perfectionism that a habit of perfectionism that I've had in the past, they'll creeps in. And I know that was a well worn habit in the past, intentionally, it was coming from a good place. But I just see it differently now. And as I see this,

it's just gonna say, just hearing you talk about it, I feel this lightness, of the heaviness of that plan and sticking with it and seeing it through compared to, and I love that word, that phrase, the miraculous, present moment, and being able to respond to that. I know enough about habits and behavior that we get wired. You know, there's physical wiring in our brain for these habits and patterns that we've established. And so while you had that epiphany, I have to imagine it wasn't all of a sudden that you made this abrupt shift from planning to no planning, and the miraculous present moment. So what was that transition? Like? What? What level of awareness? What What work did you have to do, if you had to do it, I'm not making an assumption here. But I'm just assuming it took some time to shift that pattern.

It took a little bit, it was surprisingly shorter than, than I would have thought it would be. It'd been interviewed a few years ago, if you had asked me that. This is the way I would be living my life, or the mindset or the spirit that I'd be coming from, I probably look at you like you're nuts. And so that transition, you know, what I, what I realized it's planning, for me was a well worn habit, it was a well, well intended habit. And I can see it also as an addiction, I can see it also, as an addiction, I'm going to use that word intentionally. Because what that habit did that I didn't realize, because of the emphasis that I put on it now not like saying that planning and goal setting is wrong, it's useful. But if it's everything about the goal setting and planning first, that's so useful, from what I see. And so the addiction part is putting that that energy into something that trying to calm my mind down to know that how I'm going to feel at some point in the future, like I'm trying to arrange and put it all together know that everything's okay and provide a sense of security, safety and comfort and knowing how it's all gonna work out. And we tried dumbing it down, at first to a very simplified version we created like that week of what we were doing. We just, we never looked back on it. We just honestly, we just stopped an insight for us, when it truly comes from within, like certain things just don't make sense anymore. And we just we didn't continue on in that in that way. Now, we'd have conversations when they were needed. Instead of having a regular weekly meeting like we did in our in our house before. We met we meet when we want to we meet when we have things that we wanted to tackle. We know that we've developed a lot of great healthy habits in the past, and we don't need to be so rigid about them. We don't it's not about that. It's about staying connected. The page coming from love.

Mm hmm. Did you see any difference in your kids behaviors? When you made that shift? Was there any change in the family dynamic?

There? There was because I think it was a direct reflection of us, namely me. loosening up Have me not feeling like I needed to control my environments or stuff to such a rigidity. Place where I started to just loosen up a little bit, a little bit. I know that that in turn gave permission for everybody else to breathe and loosen up a little bit in their own way. And please, lower the

word I'm hearing that's coming to me as I'm listening to is you, you decided to focus on allowing, allowing things to emerge rather than forcing or trying to make them be a particular way through control.

Absolutely, it's, it's allowing. And that triggered a thought for me in our great room, we have three signs on our bookshelf, one says surrender. The other one says let go. And the other one says right now. So when we look to those things, whenever I get tied up in a knot, or things aren't happening, the way that my mind thinks that they should be happening, or as I'm disturbed, my pieces disturbed inside, it's a good visual reminder, for us to for me, when I say us, it's me first, to surrender, to write into the present moment, and allow what's happening to happen, I don't have to agree with it, I don't have to like it. If I don't accept what's happening right now is as it's happening, I'm trying to deny reality, I'm trying to deny the miraculous present moment, and then I'm missing it. In the way I think it should be, or the way it was in I'm what I'm not going through life missing. Right now. Like that's that that's that's that the root of the decision, that the shift I saw on the inside that I saw in my life.

That's great. I love those three facts that you've got out, keep this as a mental image in my own mind, because I think that's so helpful. When especially when we're presented with behavior or a situation, that is not something we would have requested or wanted or envisioned was a positive, but to see it differently and get to acceptance really quick. I love what Chris Dora says about none time, the difference in time between when something happens and when you accept it, if you can get that down to none time, you get to a place of calmness, peace, surrender, letting go all so quickly. Because it's the reality like you say, I love that. And so I'd love for you to share a little bit about because most of our listeners are involved in some kind of work that they're doing. And you have modified the way you work with your clients now, because of this shift from focusing on planning, even though you still do it, I think there's a difference in the way you approach it with them. And I'd love for you to talk about that. I think that would have great relevance for our audience.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. For, for me, it's, I come from a different place. Now. My I know it without a doubt. And I know that not every client is open to it from the Entrepreneurial Leadership Team side of of the work I do. And I do know that so I created an environment where part of the creation of living into the miraculous present moment has allowed new creations better than I could have ever planned. One being the house that we're living in with a sacred session space that I'm doing this podcast from right now. This is where I meet with all of my entrepreneurial leadership teams that come to my house inside my house in a sacred space that is dedicated for this work them and all of my one on one coaching clients and the creation of the space. And I share this with them. There's a couple of things that in the way that I approach this when I'm working with with teams is first is they have everybody take their shoes off at the door. I give them a heads up, they're gonna have to take their shoes off, they're coming in, and when they take their shoes off, I thank them and acknowledge them for that. And they come and sit down and they know like the first time they do it. They're feeling a little weird like what like we're in a business meeting and I'm taking my shoes So I say thank you, thank you for doing that. This is a sign of vulnerability, willing to let your guard down, take your armor off, taking your shoes off is symbolism of doing that. And then I then I see a just a breath, a lightness just kind of come over them in that in that way in it. It allows for a more comfortable conversation on some things that are otherwise rather tenuous. The other thing that I now come from and shares that I share with them why I created what we created, here, we have this sacred space with a great view in nature on a lake, a little bit out of the city area. And what what I've shared with them is that this room, this place, is created to be a blessing. Number one, it's to bless our Lord, to bless our family to bless each client and every person that enters this place. And it's layered with unconditional love. unlimited possibility, in the fertile ground where miracles get created in every single session. And as you can imagine, it's not so surprising for some one on one clients to hear that, for some business leadership teams hearing that for the first time, I had one gentleman in obsessions, like you're talking about miracles, like you might want to not talk about miracles. And, and he was a very rigid planner engineer. And he loosened up so much in that day, it was unreal, he started seeing the gray between the black and the white. And his team was joking with them and having fun with him. And he's never experienced that and this life in that way. And there wasn't any one thing that did it. It's a combination of the place of allowance that I know that I'm coming from, I know I don't have the answers, I don't need to have all the answers. And I know that when we create that in a way together, that miracles will surface between everybody in the room. And it's all about the relationships and how we're coming together in a room. That's the biggest thing that we do. And when we create goals and plans and strategies from that place, from a fertile ground, not a rock hard Foundation, we like we have some fertile soil, then that we can then grow through with intention, what we want, instead of trying to plant a seed on a rock, and let it wash away, the second they get back in the middle of their crazy day to day, they actually come back the next quarter, completely different people. And it's incredible.

That's amazing. And you weave into that I would guess this whole idea of who you're being. Because I think that's it's such an important part of you where you're coming from who you're being. Do you have a process that you use with them, either individually or in a group to help them realize that without, you know, quote, lecturing them about it, or trying to describe it to them? How do you help them see it?

I don't have a structure system or formal process. Would I what I see is I look for opportunities. I look for opportunity. There's always conflict, irritation, annoyances or disturbances between each other, between something going on with their employees, between something going on with their spouse, or their kids like these things surface we create a safe sacred environment for for these, we call them issues to surface, it's just an issue. And they use those as opportunities. And again, I'm pointing to my head into my heart to help integrate your head in your heart in this place. A lot of times people are here for their passion or for their zest or for wanting something and they're stuck in their head. They're stuck with something not working right. And usually what I see is there's a blockage between the two there isn't this this continuous flow and harmony in partnership between the head and the heart? And as we slow down and start exploring that. I'll get curious. I'll just get very curious and start asking questions and helping them to see what it is that they're what's causing their stuckness I don't lecture I don't teach Unless there's something that would serve him from that from that place, because I find, even through my experience of tying in home life with Jill at the University of Santa Monica USM is all an experiential led program. There's core principles, but the way that we learned the principles and the way that I learned the principles from attending their loyalty for your soul workshop was, it's all experiential. It's like you bring up something that's going on in your life, and then they help to facilitate you through deeper inquiry. And then once you see it for yourself, all of a sudden, you cannot see it. And you shift faster and more indefinitely than if somebody else said, go do this, or go do that. And that's the best example or way that I can describe what if I had a process? That's what the process when, when look alike, its form and formless at the same time? Hmm,

that makes perfect sense to me. Just thinking about being fully present right now, and discovering what's happening in this particular moment. And what to me is underlying everything you're talking about is how can I serve this person in the most powerful way? Mike, this has been such a remarkable conversation, is there anything else that has kind of come into your mind as we've been talking that you would like to share before we wrap up?

Now, one other piece that tends to rattle pages of clients is having my session room in my house. And we my family's here, we're homeschooling. We call it soul soul school, because we're following their own individual passions and desires as their curriculum. And so they're, they're here in their house. And I know, a lot of clients are nervous about, like, family is going to be there. But we're reading in your house, they can't quite wrap their minds around it. And it's cool, because this goes back to my planning days is that I got really good at planning, business and home life and integrating the two. And what I realized is that I saw the oneness and everything in everyone, my deep connection to God, who is in nature, who is in every human being who's in business, and in home life. Because it's not separate, it's all one. And so when I realized I was separating business and home life, by creating a barrier, I would then go around and integrate the two and spend a bunch of energy separating it and then integrating it without realizing it. And the more that I realized that everything is one just dissolving, slowly dissolving those barriers that I had artificially put in my mind, everything starts to flow and integrate so much better. And that is a core reason for why I'm doing this in my house because it was a growth edge for me, and an area for me to learn to dissolve. And as I do that, we're just living our life. And everything that's in it is all part of it flowing from wherever we're at, on our travels around the world. Fear in other areas, like we're doing our life, living our life, creating our way of family for us. And serving wherever we go in the way that we can. And that for me was a big insight and continues to be as, as I start to see the the oneness and everything and everyone, always.

That's a beautiful place to to wrap up. Thank you for sharing that. And I think that's such an important takeaway for all of us. That it all it is all one and to not make those distinctions and have to expend energy, keeping them separate. I love your word dissolve. I think that's great. Mike, thank you for the gift of you and everything that you shared today, such wisdom, such life learnings and experiences that people can listen to, and have takeaways right now. To incorporate into their own way of being that I think will enrich their lives in the same way. You're pulling together all these learnings and lessons have enrich your life, Jill's life and that of your children and everyone that you all come in contact with. So thank you for who you are being in the world.

Thank you, Meredith. It's been such a blessing being with you today and your thoughtful questions and inquiry and I feel it for my heart and deeply and grateful for this time together.

Me too. Thank you.