My LDS Mission Was Run Like a Business: Emotional Manipulation Tactics of LDS Missionaries, Part 2

WEBVTT

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hello beautiful

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humans welcome to the

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midlife revolution i'm here

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again with jonathan from

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the house of deconstruction

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and tell us about your new

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channel as well

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I would love to, it's good to see you.

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Um, so I have two things kind of going, um,

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we're starting the awakening expansion,

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uh, YouTube channel.

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Um,

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there should be a post on that this week.

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That's where Shelby and I,

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who was my healer, inner child healing.

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We were talking all things, healing,

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spiritual guide, growth,

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shedding all of our programming,

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inner child healing.

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really just getting to that

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higher level of

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consciousness and really

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expanding from within and

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understanding kind of how to do that.

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And, you know,

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kind of going through some

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of the taboos of, you know,

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all of this self-help improvement stuff.

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Like the trick is not that

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the trick is to just love

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all of your parts.

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And a good analogy I've

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found from another healer was like,

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think about it like piano keys, right?

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Like,

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All of your parts are piano keys,

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and it's not like you get

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rid of those keys.

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You're just able to expand

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to higher and lower octaves

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and make beautiful harmony

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with those keys.

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You don't want to get rid of them.

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You can kind of just

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incorporate them

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differently as you expand.

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Which I think is really,

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really powerful because for

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the longest time I

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struggled with hating

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certain parts and wanting

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to just get rid of them.

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But the second I just loved

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them and could see where

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they're coming from,

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that's when you get more

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keys and you can go higher

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and lower octaves and make

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beautiful harmony.

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I love that analogy.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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It's really good.

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She's a healer.

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Her name is Duh.

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The Yashuana, Y-E-S-H-U-A-N-A.

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And she is fabulous.

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She is a genius.

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Everything that comes out of your mouth.

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I'm like, you are an ascended alien being.

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You have all the answers.

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Everything she says just resonates.

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And, um,

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But I'm also doing starting

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an Instagram page.

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It's called the underscore

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awakened past tense

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underscore narcissist.

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And that's where I kind of

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talk about being, you know,

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a healing narcissist and

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So that's going to be on Instagram.

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We got more things,

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maybe another YouTube channel,

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but we're just kind of

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getting this all rolling and it's so fun.

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And I just think we all have

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so much good information.

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And now with the way things go,

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we can all have a little

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business and we can all

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tell our stories and

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someone will be affected by that,

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you know?

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Yeah, I love it.

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Yeah, I love it.

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I think more people telling their stories,

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talking about their experiences,

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the more the better.

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And I know that a lot of

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people are coming to

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YouTube to learn new things and to,

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you know, gain more information.

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And I love that because it's

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sort of like a living library, you know,

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and I just I think it's for me anyway,

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it's turning into that kind of a space.

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And I, I guess, you know,

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my algorithm is curated

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that way on purpose.

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Yeah.

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But I love being a part of

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this space and I'm glad to

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have you joining it as well.

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I think you have so much

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important information to

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share and I just can't wait

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to see what you guys do.

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It's going to be great.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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It's always a pleasure to be here.

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I love our conversations.

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Yeah,

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like back when I was struggling

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through addiction and stuff,

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like honestly,

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what saved me a lot of

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times was just going to

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YouTube and finding like I

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literally a couple of times

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I remember I was like, I need help.

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And sure enough,

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like out popped forty

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videos that were really, really helpful.

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And I think that that's

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where we're heading.

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That's where we are.

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And it's it's we're lucky to

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have it and we're lucky to

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have all these people now

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that have a platform to to

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share their experience in this life.

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And so we can all connect on some level.

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Yeah, I agree.

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We're so we have so much in

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common as human beings.

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Yeah.

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And I believe so many things

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now are

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the joy we seek,

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the connection we seek is universal.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, it's universal.

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And I think we're uncovering that,

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getting away from politics

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and all of that and

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understanding where we have

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common ground.

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And I think that will spur a lot of joy,

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purpose,

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and kind of taking consciousness

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to the next level.

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Yeah, I totally agree with that.

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I often have this

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conversation that when we

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remove all the labels from

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ourselves and we get rid of

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the cultural and political

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and religious ideals,

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we really are just all the

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same human beings.

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We're all looking for love

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and belonging and

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connection and prosperity

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and peace and joy.

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And the more we can focus on

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that instead of focusing on

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our differences,

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the better the whole world

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is going to be.

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I agree completely.

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So this is our third interview so far.

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Sorry everyone for the long windedness.

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No, I love it.

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And I think the viewers are loving it too.

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We're getting some really

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positive things from

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listening to your experiences.

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So this is part two of

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emotional manipulation in

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the LDS mission.

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Last time we focused on the

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MTC and some of the

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training you received

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before you went out.

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And I know that you had some

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unique experiences because

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you were in leadership as a missionary.

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So where would you like to start?

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Yeah, I think I thought about that.

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And I think it starts with

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before I was called to that.

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and kind of just the dangers

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of such a hierarchical structure.

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And we didn't get into it so

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much when we were our first

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YouTube video where male

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narcissism is more

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prevalent because of the

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dangers of the leadership

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positions within the church.

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And didn't really get into

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discussing maybe why that

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is outside of just

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presenting a mask for everyone at church.

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but then also being able to

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use emotional manipulation

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and spirituality to get those callings.

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And that happened with me on my mission.

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So to kind of,

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for those that don't

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understand about a mission,

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it's built up in a

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structure where the following you can,

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when you first hit a mission,

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you're a junior companion.

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So junior companion,

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you start off fresh green.

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You're with a companion who

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is called your trainer and

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And he's been out longer,

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he or she's been out longer than you,

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obviously.

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And then you work your way

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up to eventually, hopefully be a trainer.

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And then you can become a

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district leader where

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you're kind of in charge of.

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Fifteen, sixteen to twenty missionaries,

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and then you can work your

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way up to a zone leader

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where that's several

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districts that you're in charge of.

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And then the top of that is

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you are an assistant to the president.

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And that is where you're in

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charge of along with the

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mission president,

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you're over all of those missionaries.

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Okay.

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And so when I got to my mission, um, we,

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we were immediately told like,

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it became clear that our

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mission president who was

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there only had one year left of his term.

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And that's important because

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mission presidents serve for three years.

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And one thing I don't think

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it's talked about enough is

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when you get a new mission

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president mid mission,

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it's a big deal and it

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changes everything.

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It's like getting a new CEO.

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Yeah,

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because their leadership styles can

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be so different.

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They have a lot of control

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over what rules are

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enforced and how they're enforced.

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And it's sort of like, I've talked about,

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you know, Bishop Roulette so often,

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and State President Roulette,

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and there's Mission President Roulette.

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So

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you know, different Mormons.

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And we talked about this in

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your first interview,

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how there's a million

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different versions of

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keeping the Sabbath day holy.

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And you sort of, you know,

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pick and choose what

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commandments you're going

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to follow and how you're

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going to follow them.

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So individual mission

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presidents have a great

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deal of influence over the

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the tone of the mission.

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And I think sometimes about

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when David Bednar took over

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at BYU-Idaho and really

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ratcheted down on a lot of

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the rules and things like that.

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You couldn't wear flip-flops anymore.

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You couldn't wear, you know,

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shorts above the knee anymore.

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There was just a lot of,

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there was a lot of rewriting of rules.

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So that happens on missions too.

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And my daughter definitely

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experienced that.

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She had night and day different,

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two different mission presidents.

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Same.

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And, and really you can ask any mission,

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whether you had a good or

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bad mission is really

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dependent on your mission president,

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because how they govern, how they rule,

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um, they have complete authority and, um,

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they have certain guidelines of course,

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much like bishops, but they could,

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you could have a completely

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different mission

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experience from one mission

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president to the next.

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outside of like the core

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rules and the schedule and stuff.

00:09:27.997 --> 00:09:29.179

But I mean,

00:09:29.220 --> 00:09:30.142

it's really like getting an

00:09:30.182 --> 00:09:32.488

entire new management team

00:09:32.868 --> 00:09:34.212

for your business, you know?

00:09:35.219 --> 00:09:35.879

Yeah.

00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:37.680

My niece is serving a mission right now.

00:09:37.900 --> 00:09:39.980

And my sister and

00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:41.101

brother-in-law refer to him

00:09:41.161 --> 00:09:43.141

as Santa Claus because it's

00:09:43.181 --> 00:09:44.742

kind of a free for all.

00:09:44.862 --> 00:09:46.522

And I'm actually relieved to

00:09:46.562 --> 00:09:47.683

hear that because I know

00:09:47.723 --> 00:09:48.583

that like the very,

00:09:48.643 --> 00:09:50.764

very strict mission presidents,

00:09:51.124 --> 00:09:52.324

it can be really damaging

00:09:52.344 --> 00:09:54.605

for young people to to be

00:09:54.645 --> 00:09:55.965

treated so harshly at a

00:09:56.085 --> 00:09:57.626

time when they're very vulnerable.

00:09:58.737 --> 00:10:00.958

yes yes so when i got there

00:10:01.238 --> 00:10:03.340

um it became clear and this

00:10:03.380 --> 00:10:04.520

is something we i wasn't

00:10:04.540 --> 00:10:07.282

taught before um because

00:10:07.422 --> 00:10:08.423

our mission president at

00:10:08.443 --> 00:10:09.363

the time he was a very

00:10:09.603 --> 00:10:12.105

older gentleman kind of old

00:10:12.145 --> 00:10:14.106

school but just really kind

00:10:14.426 --> 00:10:16.367

nice um but didn't really

00:10:16.407 --> 00:10:18.689

go that deep and so your

00:10:18.729 --> 00:10:19.809

mission president is really

00:10:19.849 --> 00:10:20.770

important when you first

00:10:20.810 --> 00:10:21.690

get there he's like your

00:10:21.730 --> 00:10:23.011

dad he's like your your

00:10:23.051 --> 00:10:24.712

lifeline and and everyone

00:10:24.732 --> 00:10:25.773

looks up to them at least

00:10:25.813 --> 00:10:28.054

in my mission but you know they would

00:10:28.769 --> 00:10:29.590

people who had been on the

00:10:29.610 --> 00:10:30.670

mission longer were like oh

00:10:30.770 --> 00:10:31.851

you know we're gonna be so

00:10:31.891 --> 00:10:32.991

sad when he leaves and at

00:10:33.031 --> 00:10:33.812

that time when i got to the

00:10:33.852 --> 00:10:35.293

mission it was like ten to

00:10:35.353 --> 00:10:37.554

eleven months later his

00:10:37.634 --> 00:10:39.315

term was gonna be up so i

00:10:39.355 --> 00:10:40.575

had that in the back of my

00:10:40.615 --> 00:10:45.958

mind right so um where i

00:10:45.978 --> 00:10:47.379

wanted to go with this is

00:10:47.579 --> 00:10:49.700

is you know the dangers of

00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:50.561

the hierarchy and the

00:10:50.581 --> 00:10:52.182

leadership positions and

00:10:52.222 --> 00:10:53.442

the dangers that we learned

00:10:53.462 --> 00:10:54.563

growing up of external

00:10:54.583 --> 00:10:56.164

validation and getting that

00:10:56.204 --> 00:10:58.085

recognition that we want and i

00:10:59.192 --> 00:11:01.273

Hook, line and sinker right into that.

00:11:01.713 --> 00:11:03.034

And maybe because I had more

00:11:03.134 --> 00:11:05.255

narcissistic tendencies or whatever.

00:11:05.936 --> 00:11:10.198

But that became really important to me.

00:11:11.180 --> 00:11:12.861

I wanted to kick it in the teeth, you know,

00:11:12.922 --> 00:11:14.063

and do my best.

00:11:14.283 --> 00:11:16.645

And I didn't realize it at the time,

00:11:16.965 --> 00:11:18.146

but I recognized.

00:11:18.186 --> 00:11:19.847

So when you're first in a mission,

00:11:19.867 --> 00:11:21.369

there's not much, you know, you just,

00:11:21.769 --> 00:11:22.810

you want to do a good job.

00:11:22.890 --> 00:11:24.952

But traditionally in our mission,

00:11:25.372 --> 00:11:26.093

you get called,

00:11:26.153 --> 00:11:27.234

you could be a trainer at

00:11:27.254 --> 00:11:30.677

like six to eight to nine months.

00:11:31.357 --> 00:11:32.358

And then you could get

00:11:32.398 --> 00:11:33.379

called to be a district

00:11:33.419 --> 00:11:34.460

leader at like a year.

00:11:35.140 --> 00:11:37.202

And then a zone leader at

00:11:37.242 --> 00:11:39.384

maybe four to five, six months later.

00:11:39.704 --> 00:11:40.485

And then typically the

00:11:40.525 --> 00:11:42.287

assistants in our mission

00:11:42.967 --> 00:11:45.169

were called at eighteen to twenty months,

00:11:46.350 --> 00:11:47.611

maybe even twenty two months.

00:11:47.671 --> 00:11:48.552

And they would serve as an

00:11:48.592 --> 00:11:49.773

assistant for three months.

00:11:50.133 --> 00:11:51.515

And then their last six

00:11:51.555 --> 00:11:52.255

weeks on the mission,

00:11:52.275 --> 00:11:53.617

they would go back out into the field.

00:11:53.657 --> 00:11:54.838

And that was kind of how it worked.

00:11:55.757 --> 00:11:57.679

And so from caring about

00:11:57.719 --> 00:11:59.660

external validation and leadership roles,

00:11:59.880 --> 00:12:01.402

I immediately locked into that.

00:12:01.802 --> 00:12:03.784

And I say this all just trying to admit it,

00:12:03.884 --> 00:12:04.704

and I'm not saying all

00:12:04.744 --> 00:12:05.625

missionaries do this,

00:12:05.705 --> 00:12:07.226

but the upbringing does

00:12:07.567 --> 00:12:10.549

kind of foster that, getting recognition.

00:12:10.569 --> 00:12:13.151

Yeah, and I think I remember being told,

00:12:13.632 --> 00:12:13.852

you know,

00:12:13.892 --> 00:12:15.353

we're not supposed to aspire to

00:12:15.393 --> 00:12:17.775

leadership positions, but

00:12:18.823 --> 00:12:20.344

It's sort of part of the culture.

00:12:20.604 --> 00:12:22.085

You know, it really is.

00:12:22.505 --> 00:12:23.245

You know, of course,

00:12:23.285 --> 00:12:26.267

the leadership is seen as, you know,

00:12:26.427 --> 00:12:28.608

the most righteous and everything.

00:12:28.648 --> 00:12:30.609

And if you're trying to prove your worth,

00:12:30.729 --> 00:12:32.430

as we always were in the church,

00:12:33.150 --> 00:12:34.911

that's a good way to prove your worth.

00:12:35.051 --> 00:12:35.371

You know,

00:12:35.491 --> 00:12:36.852

if you're in a leadership position,

00:12:36.912 --> 00:12:37.913

then that means you must be

00:12:37.933 --> 00:12:39.073

doing something right.

00:12:39.133 --> 00:12:40.234

A lot of something's right.

00:12:40.993 --> 00:12:42.033

Yes, absolutely.

00:12:42.813 --> 00:12:44.694

And so I was trying to do that.

00:12:44.814 --> 00:12:45.814

I was trying to be the best

00:12:46.314 --> 00:12:47.815

new missionary they had ever seen.

00:12:48.635 --> 00:12:51.175

And I worked my butt off to

00:12:51.195 --> 00:12:54.376

the point where my trainer was like,

00:12:54.476 --> 00:12:55.556

I judged the living hell

00:12:55.596 --> 00:12:57.017

out of him for being lazy or whatever.

00:12:57.117 --> 00:12:58.037

And he was a good trainer.

00:12:58.057 --> 00:12:58.617

He really was.

00:12:58.677 --> 00:13:02.398

But my level of expectation

00:13:02.458 --> 00:13:03.798

and need to just be the

00:13:03.858 --> 00:13:06.159

best were a little bit delusional.

00:13:07.154 --> 00:13:09.415

And so I remember

00:13:09.455 --> 00:13:13.230

specifically at six months

00:13:13.521 --> 00:13:14.761

a missionary who I was in

00:13:14.781 --> 00:13:16.802

the MTC with who was on the

00:13:16.822 --> 00:13:17.983

same mission but serving in

00:13:18.003 --> 00:13:18.743

a different area,

00:13:19.803 --> 00:13:20.964

I got word that he got

00:13:21.004 --> 00:13:23.164

called to be a trainer and

00:13:23.204 --> 00:13:24.665

a district leader at like

00:13:24.825 --> 00:13:27.006

six months or seven and a half months.

00:13:28.087 --> 00:13:29.548

And instead of being happy

00:13:29.588 --> 00:13:31.308

for this guy who's a sweet kid,

00:13:31.808 --> 00:13:34.569

but I was devastated.

00:13:35.269 --> 00:13:35.549

I mean,

00:13:35.770 --> 00:13:37.290

way more devastated than I should

00:13:37.330 --> 00:13:39.111

have been.

00:13:39.411 --> 00:13:39.991

But, you know,

00:13:40.011 --> 00:13:40.811

that's the culture of the

00:13:40.831 --> 00:13:41.892

church because I was trying

00:13:41.912 --> 00:13:43.412

to fast track my way to

00:13:43.472 --> 00:13:44.832

being at the top and

00:13:44.872 --> 00:13:46.233

getting noticed because I

00:13:46.273 --> 00:13:47.293

needed that external

00:13:47.353 --> 00:13:49.354

validation that I had learned.

00:13:49.734 --> 00:13:50.575

Instead of just being

00:13:50.615 --> 00:13:52.718

devoted to God and loving all of that.

00:13:52.798 --> 00:13:54.780

So I'm not saying that all

00:13:54.920 --> 00:13:56.061

missionaries were like that.

00:13:56.382 --> 00:13:58.224

I know that just my dynamic growing up,

00:13:58.664 --> 00:13:59.546

it produced a lot of

00:13:59.586 --> 00:14:00.827

narcissistic tendencies.

00:14:01.708 --> 00:14:02.749

And I thought that.

00:14:03.430 --> 00:14:05.813

And I was devastated and I was depressed.

00:14:06.614 --> 00:14:07.575

And I,

00:14:07.975 --> 00:14:09.056

because I didn't get called to be

00:14:09.117 --> 00:14:09.477

anything.

00:14:10.339 --> 00:14:12.501

And I even remember the first,

00:14:12.521 --> 00:14:13.262

because you get to meet

00:14:13.282 --> 00:14:14.262

with the mission president

00:14:14.282 --> 00:14:16.124

like once every three months,

00:14:16.344 --> 00:14:19.387

once every six weeks, maybe even if that.

00:14:19.547 --> 00:14:22.109

And I remember that first time, you know,

00:14:22.129 --> 00:14:24.051

I'm trying to have him remember me.

00:14:24.351 --> 00:14:27.113

I'm trying to, you know, in that interview,

00:14:27.153 --> 00:14:28.835

prove myself like I'm going

00:14:28.855 --> 00:14:31.421

to be a big deal here,

00:14:31.664 --> 00:14:32.525

Yeah.

00:14:32.745 --> 00:14:34.026

Hundreds of missionaries, right?

00:14:34.126 --> 00:14:35.707

And so you're trying to,

00:14:35.747 --> 00:14:36.808

do you remember how many

00:14:37.348 --> 00:14:39.630

missionaries there were in your mission?

00:14:39.670 --> 00:14:39.750

Yes.

00:14:39.770 --> 00:14:40.851

I think on the last episode

00:14:40.871 --> 00:14:41.951

I said one fifty,

00:14:41.991 --> 00:14:43.152

but we were at one thirty.

00:14:43.172 --> 00:14:44.033

Okay.

00:14:44.733 --> 00:14:44.914

Yeah.

00:14:44.994 --> 00:14:46.074

So out of one hundred and

00:14:46.094 --> 00:14:47.115

thirty missionaries,

00:14:47.175 --> 00:14:48.856

you're trying to be

00:14:48.916 --> 00:14:50.357

remembered as someone who

00:14:50.538 --> 00:14:51.999

is responsible and rule

00:14:52.019 --> 00:14:53.800

follower and capable and

00:14:53.860 --> 00:14:56.282

everything so that you can, you know,

00:14:56.322 --> 00:14:57.663

get that leadership position.

00:14:58.245 --> 00:14:59.206

Then you have, you know,

00:14:59.226 --> 00:15:00.486

a ten-minute interview with them.

00:15:00.526 --> 00:15:01.027

And I was like,

00:15:01.067 --> 00:15:02.147

I'm going to make the most of this.

00:15:02.848 --> 00:15:04.729

And that's kind of – I

00:15:04.749 --> 00:15:06.070

didn't even realize it at the time.

00:15:06.090 --> 00:15:07.571

But now, as we always say, you know,

00:15:07.591 --> 00:15:08.471

you can piece together.

00:15:09.352 --> 00:15:10.272

There was a little emotional

00:15:10.353 --> 00:15:11.954

manipulation on my part there too.

00:15:12.834 --> 00:15:16.476

And so then I started – I would even,

00:15:16.496 --> 00:15:18.268

you know –

00:15:17.873 --> 00:15:20.954

communicate to my mission my

00:15:20.994 --> 00:15:22.334

companions and people in my

00:15:22.374 --> 00:15:24.635

district that I was a

00:15:24.655 --> 00:15:26.575

little I was sad that I

00:15:26.595 --> 00:15:27.176

didn't get called to

00:15:27.216 --> 00:15:27.776

anything because I'm

00:15:27.836 --> 00:15:28.996

working my butt off you

00:15:29.036 --> 00:15:29.836

know and so I'm like

00:15:29.956 --> 00:15:31.917

lobbying which is

00:15:31.957 --> 00:15:33.037

ridiculous and I have to

00:15:33.057 --> 00:15:34.237

give myself some grace for

00:15:34.257 --> 00:15:36.878

that but and they were like

00:15:36.938 --> 00:15:37.958

and so I think they

00:15:38.059 --> 00:15:39.959

literally told you know a

00:15:39.979 --> 00:15:41.379

district leader my district

00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:42.260

leader then told the zone

00:15:42.280 --> 00:15:44.280

leader and then that next

00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:46.581

uh transfer cycle which uh there's

00:15:47.321 --> 00:15:48.422

you go in transfer cycles

00:15:48.442 --> 00:15:49.523

and that's every six weeks

00:15:49.563 --> 00:15:50.584

and every six weeks you

00:15:50.624 --> 00:15:51.965

could be transferred you

00:15:52.005 --> 00:15:53.266

could get a new companion

00:15:54.808 --> 00:15:56.249

it's all up to the mission

00:15:56.269 --> 00:15:56.950

president and the

00:15:56.990 --> 00:15:58.711

assistance of how to manage

00:15:58.751 --> 00:15:59.692

the mission and in our

00:15:59.712 --> 00:16:00.613

mission the longest you

00:16:00.633 --> 00:16:01.954

would stay in an area was

00:16:01.974 --> 00:16:02.775

about six months

00:16:03.860 --> 00:16:06.161

So I had been in that first

00:16:06.281 --> 00:16:08.281

area for six months and

00:16:08.341 --> 00:16:11.102

then I was called finally

00:16:12.122 --> 00:16:15.003

to be a trainer and to go to a new area.

00:16:15.823 --> 00:16:17.803

And so I was like, okay, all right,

00:16:18.243 --> 00:16:19.184

I got some validation.

00:16:19.224 --> 00:16:21.024

And I got partnered up with

00:16:21.064 --> 00:16:22.604

this sweet kid from Brazil

00:16:23.065 --> 00:16:24.425

who didn't speak a lick of English.

00:16:25.465 --> 00:16:27.786

And he just spoke Portuguese

00:16:27.806 --> 00:16:29.687

and his English was very, very limited.

00:16:29.747 --> 00:16:31.627

So that was a really, it was fun.

00:16:31.647 --> 00:16:34.709

And I felt honored to like be able to be,

00:16:35.029 --> 00:16:35.269

you know,

00:16:35.289 --> 00:16:36.769

a big brother to him and help

00:16:36.789 --> 00:16:37.930

him with the language and stuff.

00:16:38.390 --> 00:16:40.011

So we were out in Podunk,

00:16:40.131 --> 00:16:43.972

Florida in the country for six months.

00:16:45.012 --> 00:16:46.353

But leading up to that, right,

00:16:47.273 --> 00:16:49.374

we had the new mission president come in.

00:16:51.130 --> 00:16:52.551

and so we go to his own

00:16:52.591 --> 00:16:53.572

conference and it's like

00:16:53.712 --> 00:16:54.852

introduced and i'm not

00:16:54.872 --> 00:16:55.693

going to use his name

00:16:56.213 --> 00:16:57.254

because i truly do love

00:16:57.294 --> 00:16:59.335

this man and he taught me a

00:16:59.355 --> 00:17:00.355

lot of amazing things and

00:17:00.375 --> 00:17:01.896

he was like a father to me

00:17:02.597 --> 00:17:04.438

and he was a convert to the

00:17:04.478 --> 00:17:06.099

church he didn't join until

00:17:06.139 --> 00:17:07.239

his thing is mid-twenties

00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:08.120

or maybe even early

00:17:08.180 --> 00:17:09.341

thirties with his wife

00:17:11.645 --> 00:17:12.986

And I'm realizing now that

00:17:13.006 --> 00:17:14.208

gave him such a unique

00:17:14.248 --> 00:17:15.409

perspective where he was

00:17:15.529 --> 00:17:17.271

not in the bubble all growing up.

00:17:17.671 --> 00:17:19.413

And he was able to come in

00:17:19.453 --> 00:17:21.355

with this fresh look,

00:17:21.696 --> 00:17:22.797

this fresh perspective.

00:17:23.798 --> 00:17:24.078

And

00:17:25.700 --> 00:17:27.861

So I remember meeting him and, you know,

00:17:27.881 --> 00:17:29.462

he's a powerful guy.

00:17:30.022 --> 00:17:31.403

You know, the first lesson he gave,

00:17:31.643 --> 00:17:32.643

he was talked about how he

00:17:32.663 --> 00:17:34.124

was a boxer and he's in these,

00:17:34.604 --> 00:17:35.425

and I love fashion.

00:17:35.485 --> 00:17:37.766

He's in these gorgeous suits that are like,

00:17:37.806 --> 00:17:39.326

you know, five thousand dollar suits.

00:17:39.386 --> 00:17:41.227

And I'm just like, wow, this is,

00:17:41.427 --> 00:17:42.168

this is my guy.

00:17:42.468 --> 00:17:44.789

You know, this, this guy, he's good.

00:17:44.809 --> 00:17:45.349

He's got it.

00:17:46.129 --> 00:17:48.811

And he's a very powerful storyteller.

00:17:48.891 --> 00:17:50.752

His conversion story was powerful.

00:17:50.872 --> 00:17:51.172

And he, he,

00:17:52.012 --> 00:17:52.732

And keep in mind the

00:17:52.772 --> 00:17:53.912

previous mission president,

00:17:53.932 --> 00:17:54.873

when we get together,

00:17:55.393 --> 00:17:56.213

he didn't do any of that.

00:17:56.413 --> 00:17:58.293

He would just get up at zone

00:17:58.333 --> 00:18:00.114

conferences and talk deep doctrine.

00:18:00.434 --> 00:18:02.154

Just, we would all love it.

00:18:02.214 --> 00:18:05.435

And he would just go really deep into Adam,

00:18:05.475 --> 00:18:07.075

God, all this crazy stuff.

00:18:07.095 --> 00:18:07.976

And we just ate it up

00:18:07.996 --> 00:18:09.256

because that's just how he ran it.

00:18:09.976 --> 00:18:11.116

And he just,

00:18:11.176 --> 00:18:12.417

he just wanted to keep the

00:18:12.457 --> 00:18:13.797

peace and keep the mission running.

00:18:14.117 --> 00:18:15.517

He didn't really participate.

00:18:17.378 --> 00:18:18.538

He just kind of, you know,

00:18:19.610 --> 00:18:20.572

did what he needed to do.

00:18:20.592 --> 00:18:21.573

And he was an old guy and

00:18:21.613 --> 00:18:23.075

his wife was really, really sweet.

00:18:23.216 --> 00:18:25.018

And so that was kind of the vibe,

00:18:25.138 --> 00:18:26.400

but he also had this system

00:18:26.601 --> 00:18:29.185

of hierarchy that everyone expected.

00:18:29.405 --> 00:18:31.308

And so the new mission president comes in,

00:18:32.111 --> 00:18:33.853

And I was just blown away by him.

00:18:33.953 --> 00:18:35.354

He's a powerful businessman

00:18:35.414 --> 00:18:36.255

out of California,

00:18:36.295 --> 00:18:37.275

made a ton of money in

00:18:37.315 --> 00:18:38.356

commercial real estate.

00:18:39.537 --> 00:18:41.219

And he's wearing some sweet

00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:42.740

ass suits and like eight

00:18:42.760 --> 00:18:44.021

hundred dollar Italian shoes.

00:18:44.802 --> 00:18:45.502

And I was just like,

00:18:45.542 --> 00:18:47.244

this guy's like I was so

00:18:47.284 --> 00:18:47.944

impressed by him.

00:18:48.885 --> 00:18:50.847

And so it comes to that

00:18:50.887 --> 00:18:52.028

point where I'm still in

00:18:52.168 --> 00:18:53.209

podunk with my little

00:18:53.629 --> 00:18:56.331

Brazilian companion to it's

00:18:56.372 --> 00:18:57.553

his time to cycle through

00:18:57.573 --> 00:18:58.373

all the missionaries and

00:18:58.433 --> 00:18:59.214

interview all of them.

00:19:01.395 --> 00:19:05.298

And during that time I had gone through,

00:19:05.618 --> 00:19:06.919

I found out that my brother

00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:08.500

was getting a divorce back

00:19:08.560 --> 00:19:11.762

home and he was leaving the church.

00:19:11.802 --> 00:19:12.582

That had happened within

00:19:12.622 --> 00:19:13.823

like three months of that

00:19:13.863 --> 00:19:15.164

first visit with the new

00:19:15.264 --> 00:19:15.964

mission president.

00:19:16.024 --> 00:19:17.465

And that was devastating as

00:19:17.505 --> 00:19:19.347

a missionary to get those

00:19:19.427 --> 00:19:21.048

emails and know that one of

00:19:21.088 --> 00:19:22.789

your rocks that you looked up to

00:19:23.735 --> 00:19:24.717

was leaving the church and

00:19:24.737 --> 00:19:25.718

he was getting a divorce.

00:19:25.738 --> 00:19:26.700

His wife cheated on him.

00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:29.183

And that was devastating on the mission.

00:19:29.484 --> 00:19:31.607

That was truly devastating.

00:19:31.767 --> 00:19:33.169

And I think that might have

00:19:33.189 --> 00:19:34.551

been the first time in the

00:19:34.591 --> 00:19:35.873

back of my mind, I was like,

00:19:36.774 --> 00:19:37.195

wait a minute.

00:19:39.181 --> 00:19:40.081

I trusted him with

00:19:40.181 --> 00:19:41.862

everything and he thinks it's not true.

00:19:42.882 --> 00:19:43.623

So I think that was the

00:19:43.663 --> 00:19:45.263

first piece of doubt.

00:19:45.323 --> 00:19:46.924

So, yeah.

00:19:47.004 --> 00:19:48.644

So I'm going in to talk to

00:19:48.684 --> 00:19:49.705

the new mission president

00:19:49.825 --> 00:19:53.426

one-on-one and subconsciously consciously,

00:19:53.546 --> 00:19:53.966

I was like,

00:19:54.126 --> 00:19:57.868

I'm going to make him remember me.

00:19:59.128 --> 00:19:59.468

And, you know,

00:19:59.508 --> 00:20:01.409

he asked how I was doing and

00:20:02.309 --> 00:20:03.930

I told him that story and I

00:20:03.970 --> 00:20:07.311

got choked up and I cried and

00:20:09.128 --> 00:20:09.728

Um, it was,

00:20:09.828 --> 00:20:11.049

it was a special moment with

00:20:11.089 --> 00:20:12.689

him because he was a big businessman,

00:20:12.729 --> 00:20:14.230

but he had a big heart and he was,

00:20:14.350 --> 00:20:15.971

he was truly a good man.

00:20:17.131 --> 00:20:20.212

And then didn't think much of it.

00:20:20.452 --> 00:20:21.953

And then six weeks later,

00:20:22.833 --> 00:20:24.094

it's time for transfers

00:20:24.494 --> 00:20:25.954

like a week before transfers.

00:20:26.855 --> 00:20:29.036

And I get a call from him at

00:20:29.076 --> 00:20:32.057

my apartment and he's like, elder,

00:20:32.357 --> 00:20:33.717

I I'd like to call you to

00:20:33.777 --> 00:20:35.298

be my assistant.

00:20:37.276 --> 00:20:39.597

and i was not expecting that

00:20:40.018 --> 00:20:41.298

you know but instantly i'm

00:20:41.318 --> 00:20:42.859

like shocked and speechless

00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:44.620

but instantly it was just

00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.862

like oh my gosh and it felt

00:20:48.042 --> 00:20:49.983

really really good because that's that's

00:20:51.095 --> 00:20:52.536

the most external validation

00:20:52.576 --> 00:20:53.537

you can get on the mission.

00:20:53.937 --> 00:20:55.238

And no one had been called.

00:20:55.458 --> 00:20:58.761

I mean, I hadn't even been out a year and,

00:20:58.861 --> 00:21:01.262

and I was just like, oh my gosh.

00:21:01.903 --> 00:21:02.803

You're like, it's happening.

00:21:02.883 --> 00:21:03.464

It's happening.

00:21:03.504 --> 00:21:04.965

It's happening.

00:21:04.985 --> 00:21:05.165

I did it.

00:21:05.205 --> 00:21:05.645

We made it.

00:21:05.705 --> 00:21:08.027

And I still have a year left on my mission,

00:21:08.628 --> 00:21:09.008

you know?

00:21:09.148 --> 00:21:12.951

So, um, but looking back, I,

00:21:14.772 --> 00:21:17.434

I manipulated him, you know, I, um,

00:21:19.150 --> 00:21:21.331

And he saw something in me

00:21:21.371 --> 00:21:22.272

where he thought, okay,

00:21:22.312 --> 00:21:24.413

this kid can reach these

00:21:24.433 --> 00:21:25.173

other missionaries.

00:21:25.233 --> 00:21:26.213

He's got some depth.

00:21:26.594 --> 00:21:28.094

He's got some passion.

00:21:28.214 --> 00:21:30.816

He's got some emotionality and well-spoken,

00:21:30.876 --> 00:21:31.256

whatever.

00:21:32.236 --> 00:21:35.618

And then I was the assistant

00:21:35.778 --> 00:21:37.619

for that next year.

00:21:38.619 --> 00:21:39.740

He didn't ever remove me.

00:21:40.100 --> 00:21:41.601

and have me go back into the field.

00:21:41.641 --> 00:21:43.842

And I had three or four

00:21:43.982 --> 00:21:46.823

companions as an assistant that I stayed.

00:21:47.324 --> 00:21:48.864

They came in and as an assistant,

00:21:49.845 --> 00:21:51.326

we called another assistant

00:21:51.386 --> 00:21:52.906

and I stayed that entire

00:21:52.946 --> 00:21:55.207

time being his assistant.

00:21:56.788 --> 00:21:56.968

Well,

00:21:57.048 --> 00:21:58.809

I just want to pause for one second

00:21:59.630 --> 00:22:01.170

and just give young

00:22:01.190 --> 00:22:03.111

missionary you a little bit of grace.

00:22:03.412 --> 00:22:05.032

Because, you know,

00:22:05.152 --> 00:22:07.334

I know that part of what

00:22:07.354 --> 00:22:08.774

we're doing here is like

00:22:08.834 --> 00:22:10.275

looking back and saying,

00:22:10.875 --> 00:22:11.756

that probably wasn't the

00:22:11.776 --> 00:22:13.577

healthiest way to handle that, right?

00:22:13.657 --> 00:22:13.817

But...

00:22:14.397 --> 00:22:15.618

you know you were in a

00:22:15.658 --> 00:22:17.099

moment where you really

00:22:17.139 --> 00:22:19.141

were emotionally devastated

00:22:19.181 --> 00:22:20.222

by what was going on with

00:22:20.242 --> 00:22:21.623

your brother you know and

00:22:21.763 --> 00:22:22.784

and so it's not like you

00:22:22.824 --> 00:22:25.326

made up a story um you know

00:22:25.366 --> 00:22:25.927

it's not like you

00:22:26.007 --> 00:22:27.928

manufactured emotion you

00:22:27.968 --> 00:22:29.710

really were feeling that um

00:22:29.730 --> 00:22:30.591

so i just want to give you

00:22:30.631 --> 00:22:32.252

that that much grace you

00:22:32.272 --> 00:22:34.214

know because that it's a

00:22:34.274 --> 00:22:35.955

it's a real thing and i

00:22:35.995 --> 00:22:37.416

think that we are trained

00:22:38.530 --> 00:22:40.893

in the Mormon church to use

00:22:40.993 --> 00:22:44.398

emotion to not only convert ourselves,

00:22:44.458 --> 00:22:46.100

but other people as well.

00:22:46.961 --> 00:22:48.543

When we get up and bear our testimony,

00:22:49.044 --> 00:22:52.148

we're encouraged to use our

00:22:52.208 --> 00:22:55.192

devastating experiences, our heartbreaks,

00:22:55.432 --> 00:22:56.353

our losses,

00:22:57.344 --> 00:22:59.746

to demonstrate our faith and to,

00:22:59.946 --> 00:23:01.387

and to help other people

00:23:01.787 --> 00:23:03.268

have a faithful story that

00:23:03.308 --> 00:23:04.549

they've heard as well, you know?

00:23:04.629 --> 00:23:06.450

So it's like almost every,

00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:08.852

and I call it open mic Sunday now where,

00:23:08.992 --> 00:23:09.232

you know,

00:23:09.332 --> 00:23:12.034

once a month members get up in

00:23:12.054 --> 00:23:13.975

the congregation and tell

00:23:14.015 --> 00:23:15.076

stories of their faith.

00:23:15.296 --> 00:23:16.777

And as much as the

00:23:16.797 --> 00:23:18.718

leadership tries to narrow

00:23:18.778 --> 00:23:19.739

it down to like,

00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:21.780

Please keep your testimony

00:23:21.840 --> 00:23:24.561

brief and please stick to, you know,

00:23:24.741 --> 00:23:25.862

these five things,

00:23:25.882 --> 00:23:27.423

which is like the Savior,

00:23:27.563 --> 00:23:29.504

the restored gospel, Joseph Smith,

00:23:29.844 --> 00:23:30.565

the current prophet.

00:23:30.605 --> 00:23:32.205

I forget what the five things are,

00:23:32.245 --> 00:23:34.267

but like keep it in this area, right?

00:23:34.827 --> 00:23:36.308

No matter how much they do that.

00:23:37.426 --> 00:23:39.988

people go off on wild, crazy stories.

00:23:40.548 --> 00:23:41.369

And maybe we'll do an

00:23:41.429 --> 00:23:43.571

episode one time where we

00:23:43.611 --> 00:23:45.492

just do crazy open mic stories,

00:23:45.532 --> 00:23:47.994

because I heard some wild

00:23:48.054 --> 00:23:49.475

stuff in testimony meeting

00:23:49.495 --> 00:23:50.796

that should never have been

00:23:50.816 --> 00:23:52.897

said from the pulpit, right?

00:23:53.118 --> 00:23:54.899

But that's, you know, once a month,

00:23:55.637 --> 00:23:56.838

we're encouraged to bear our

00:23:56.878 --> 00:23:59.099

testimony as often as we can.

00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:00.539

And I was definitely one of

00:24:00.579 --> 00:24:02.140

those that was like,

00:24:02.540 --> 00:24:03.881

I felt guilty if I didn't

00:24:03.921 --> 00:24:05.982

get up every month and share,

00:24:06.122 --> 00:24:07.303

share some experience

00:24:07.343 --> 00:24:08.523

because I was always going

00:24:08.603 --> 00:24:10.604

through something difficult

00:24:11.204 --> 00:24:14.346

and then gaslighting myself into saying,

00:24:14.486 --> 00:24:16.767

you know, but, but my faith is strong.

00:24:16.907 --> 00:24:18.848

I believe God is with me, you know,

00:24:19.749 --> 00:24:21.429

XYZ faith promoting story.

00:24:21.950 --> 00:24:22.790

So I,

00:24:22.950 --> 00:24:24.231

All of that just to say,

00:24:25.151 --> 00:24:26.752

you came by it so honestly.

00:24:26.872 --> 00:24:27.932

And that's the whole

00:24:27.952 --> 00:24:29.073

conversation we're having

00:24:29.193 --> 00:24:30.513

is that the church taught

00:24:30.573 --> 00:24:32.274

us how to do this.

00:24:33.254 --> 00:24:35.575

And we didn't realize at the

00:24:35.615 --> 00:24:37.236

time that it wasn't healthy.

00:24:37.276 --> 00:24:38.977

We didn't realize it wasn't authentic.

00:24:39.197 --> 00:24:39.997

We thought it was.

00:24:40.338 --> 00:24:41.278

We thought we were being the

00:24:41.318 --> 00:24:42.498

most vulnerable,

00:24:42.578 --> 00:24:44.159

authentic version of ourselves.

00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:46.700

Yeah, absolutely.

00:24:47.100 --> 00:24:49.341

And with that, it just popped into my head,

00:24:49.361 --> 00:24:50.642

those testimony meetings, like,

00:24:52.941 --> 00:24:55.462

you're just trying to be heard sometimes.

00:24:55.482 --> 00:24:56.042

And the church,

00:24:56.162 --> 00:24:57.782

the church really silences you.

00:24:57.862 --> 00:24:57.962

And,

00:24:58.042 --> 00:24:59.263

and I think I went through that

00:24:59.323 --> 00:24:59.863

growing up,

00:24:59.923 --> 00:25:03.224

like times you just want to be heard,

00:25:03.884 --> 00:25:04.244

you know?

00:25:04.424 --> 00:25:07.425

And, and, and I think maybe that,

00:25:07.525 --> 00:25:08.745

that venting session that

00:25:08.805 --> 00:25:09.686

some people have at the

00:25:09.706 --> 00:25:11.686

testimony meeting and then they, you know,

00:25:12.046 --> 00:25:14.747

twist it down to relate it to a testimony,

00:25:15.127 --> 00:25:16.848

um, instead of just a venting session,

00:25:16.868 --> 00:25:17.428

you know,

00:25:17.448 --> 00:25:18.508

there might be something to that.

00:25:19.328 --> 00:25:21.549

Um, but yeah, he, uh,

00:25:22.896 --> 00:25:23.376

I did that.

00:25:23.797 --> 00:25:25.858

And it was a dream come true

00:25:26.619 --> 00:25:28.220

because I knew everyone in

00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:29.941

that mission was going to be like, what?

00:25:30.662 --> 00:25:31.942

He's been out how long?

00:25:32.203 --> 00:25:34.184

And I, I, I thrived on that.

00:25:34.204 --> 00:25:35.385

But I also thought I was

00:25:35.445 --> 00:25:36.966

like the spirit confirmed to him, man,

00:25:37.566 --> 00:25:38.847

like we're going to do great things.

00:25:39.007 --> 00:25:39.748

This is going to be,

00:25:39.788 --> 00:25:40.729

this is going to be great.

00:25:40.789 --> 00:25:41.689

This is going to be fun.

00:25:42.390 --> 00:25:43.310

And, you know,

00:25:44.191 --> 00:25:45.992

so he started immediately

00:25:46.192 --> 00:25:49.995

and this guy was a brilliant businessman.

00:25:50.055 --> 00:25:51.376

He was a brilliant entrepreneur.

00:25:51.796 --> 00:25:52.477

alpha male,

00:25:53.177 --> 00:25:55.078

not in the toxic masculinity

00:25:55.138 --> 00:25:57.140

sense for a guy of his age.

00:25:57.880 --> 00:25:59.381

Um, but we,

00:25:59.541 --> 00:26:01.583

we started right away and he

00:26:01.623 --> 00:26:03.024

immediately had me and my

00:26:03.064 --> 00:26:04.945

current companion who he did not choose,

00:26:05.005 --> 00:26:05.806

who had already been,

00:26:05.926 --> 00:26:07.086

who was already the assistant.

00:26:07.867 --> 00:26:09.568

And there was already, you know,

00:26:09.588 --> 00:26:10.809

rumblings from him that he

00:26:10.829 --> 00:26:11.850

was not happy about it

00:26:11.870 --> 00:26:13.751

because he had this other guy lined up.

00:26:13.791 --> 00:26:14.832

And I feel bad for the other

00:26:14.872 --> 00:26:16.393

missionary who was done

00:26:16.453 --> 00:26:17.854

everything he was supposed to do.

00:26:17.994 --> 00:26:18.414

And he was,

00:26:18.674 --> 00:26:19.695

he was his own leader and it

00:26:19.715 --> 00:26:21.236

was his time to be assistant.

00:26:22.116 --> 00:26:23.357

and they called me instead.

00:26:24.357 --> 00:26:25.677

And so there was rumblings

00:26:26.218 --> 00:26:27.038

going throughout that.

00:26:27.178 --> 00:26:29.139

And I think my mission

00:26:29.159 --> 00:26:30.199

president kind of knew that

00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:32.440

and that it would be controversial.

00:26:32.520 --> 00:26:35.701

So he had us go out to every district,

00:26:36.750 --> 00:26:40.731

and we me and the current my

00:26:40.771 --> 00:26:42.972

current companion at the

00:26:43.012 --> 00:26:44.492

time to talk to them you

00:26:44.512 --> 00:26:45.613

know we use it as an excuse

00:26:45.633 --> 00:26:46.573

we got to show this you

00:26:46.593 --> 00:26:47.833

know safety video for

00:26:48.593 --> 00:26:49.694

driving in the rain in

00:26:49.734 --> 00:26:51.514

florida but then you know

00:26:51.554 --> 00:26:53.535

kind of he wanted to show

00:26:53.555 --> 00:26:55.075

like this is my new general

00:26:55.375 --> 00:26:57.076

and this is how it's going to be

00:26:58.176 --> 00:26:59.256

and so i mean from a

00:26:59.376 --> 00:27:01.137

business perspective he ran

00:27:01.177 --> 00:27:02.557

that mission like a

00:27:02.797 --> 00:27:04.177

business and he knew

00:27:04.257 --> 00:27:05.798

exactly how to get the

00:27:05.838 --> 00:27:08.518

results i mean down to we

00:27:08.638 --> 00:27:10.779

we had you know kpis

00:27:10.999 --> 00:27:12.039

obviously the church does

00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:13.299

key performance indicators

00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:15.339

and we figured out if this

00:27:15.379 --> 00:27:17.120

went up baptisms would go

00:27:17.180 --> 00:27:18.620

up if this went down this

00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:19.700

would happen this went down

00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:21.801

and so i learned so much

00:27:21.841 --> 00:27:23.141

from him and i will say

00:27:24.472 --> 00:27:26.014

He did have the compassion,

00:27:26.455 --> 00:27:27.697

spiritual side of it.

00:27:28.438 --> 00:27:29.459

He was just a powerhouse.

00:27:29.579 --> 00:27:32.723

And I learned so much from him.

00:27:33.104 --> 00:27:34.626

But before we get into that,

00:27:34.686 --> 00:27:35.708

right as I was called,

00:27:36.829 --> 00:27:37.510

we were going to get a

00:27:37.550 --> 00:27:39.272

visit from a member of the

00:27:39.533 --> 00:27:40.454

Quorum of the Seventy.

00:27:41.215 --> 00:27:42.696

Because periodic throughout your mission,

00:27:42.836 --> 00:27:43.817

you're going to get visited.

00:27:44.558 --> 00:27:46.319

And I think this was normal

00:27:46.359 --> 00:27:47.300

and I didn't know that.

00:27:48.101 --> 00:27:51.103

But it was Greg C. Christensen,

00:27:51.683 --> 00:27:54.506

and he was a football player at BYU,

00:27:55.647 --> 00:27:57.508

married his wife, Debbie,

00:27:57.588 --> 00:27:58.489

right after his mission.

00:27:59.354 --> 00:28:02.716

And then he ran several car dealerships,

00:28:02.776 --> 00:28:03.617

management companies.

00:28:03.637 --> 00:28:05.258

He got his MBA out of California.

00:28:05.998 --> 00:28:06.739

And he was a good

00:28:06.779 --> 00:28:08.940

businessman and loyal to the church.

00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:09.781

And he was called to be a

00:28:09.821 --> 00:28:11.882

mission president at age thirty nine.

00:28:11.902 --> 00:28:13.683

You know, I looked all this up.

00:28:14.404 --> 00:28:16.345

And so he came to the mission.

00:28:16.365 --> 00:28:16.745

Pretty young.

00:28:17.306 --> 00:28:17.606

Yeah.

00:28:17.806 --> 00:28:19.147

And then to the quorum of

00:28:19.627 --> 00:28:22.269

the second seventy when he was, you know,

00:28:22.629 --> 00:28:23.349

six years later,

00:28:24.210 --> 00:28:25.291

back in two thousand two.

00:28:26.391 --> 00:28:28.533

And so he came to the mission and.

00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:30.040

when that happens,

00:28:30.080 --> 00:28:31.221

he comes to the mission

00:28:31.261 --> 00:28:33.081

president's house and it's us,

00:28:34.122 --> 00:28:35.042

me and my other companion,

00:28:35.082 --> 00:28:36.462

who was still from the old regime.

00:28:37.643 --> 00:28:39.643

And, you know, we have dinner with them.

00:28:39.783 --> 00:28:40.784

He's going to address the

00:28:40.844 --> 00:28:42.304

entire mission the next day.

00:28:43.205 --> 00:28:44.625

And he's there.

00:28:44.785 --> 00:28:46.266

And so we had very intimate

00:28:46.826 --> 00:28:50.847

dinner with him and several hours of, of,

00:28:50.867 --> 00:28:51.487

of talking.

00:28:51.728 --> 00:28:53.628

And then he's like, all right, uh,

00:28:53.648 --> 00:28:55.469

elder so-and-so and elder so-and-so,

00:28:55.489 --> 00:28:57.670

if you would join me in the other room,

00:28:58.710 --> 00:28:58.890

um,

00:28:59.736 --> 00:29:02.017

And then, you know,

00:29:02.037 --> 00:29:03.057

and the mission president.

00:29:03.177 --> 00:29:04.718

And so what happened next

00:29:04.738 --> 00:29:05.578

was kind of bizarre.

00:29:06.378 --> 00:29:09.199

He grilled my companion and

00:29:09.299 --> 00:29:10.479

me about the mission.

00:29:10.579 --> 00:29:11.220

And keep in mind,

00:29:11.340 --> 00:29:12.420

I've been an assistant for

00:29:12.460 --> 00:29:13.280

like two weeks.

00:29:14.380 --> 00:29:18.922

And so, and he's asking basically,

00:29:19.702 --> 00:29:21.163

do the missionaries respect

00:29:21.563 --> 00:29:22.923

this new mission president?

00:29:23.663 --> 00:29:25.704

Does he have control of this mission?

00:29:26.536 --> 00:29:28.222

will this will these

00:29:28.282 --> 00:29:29.627

missionaries listen to him

00:29:31.031 --> 00:29:32.998

and you know i'm i'm

00:29:34.357 --> 00:29:35.037

Like, oh, crap.

00:29:35.077 --> 00:29:36.258

Because I did believe in him.

00:29:36.598 --> 00:29:37.219

And I was honest.

00:29:37.299 --> 00:29:38.879

I was like, you know,

00:29:38.939 --> 00:29:40.640

there's people who still

00:29:40.700 --> 00:29:42.081

like the old regime.

00:29:42.241 --> 00:29:44.262

And because my mission,

00:29:44.342 --> 00:29:45.703

and I keep wanting to say his name,

00:29:45.723 --> 00:29:46.924

but I don't want to do that

00:29:46.944 --> 00:29:48.945

because I just respect for him.

00:29:49.885 --> 00:29:51.606

He was ruffling feathers and

00:29:51.666 --> 00:29:52.787

he was ready to get this

00:29:52.847 --> 00:29:55.068

thing as a baptizing mission.

00:29:55.108 --> 00:29:55.808

And the old mission

00:29:55.848 --> 00:29:56.809

president didn't do that.

00:29:56.869 --> 00:29:59.430

He was just like, serve your two years.

00:29:59.490 --> 00:30:00.511

Don't go home early.

00:30:00.631 --> 00:30:01.391

Do your best.

00:30:01.451 --> 00:30:02.972

And let's talk about some deep doctrines.

00:30:03.828 --> 00:30:05.288

Well, the new mission president was like,

00:30:05.629 --> 00:30:06.369

we're going to turn this

00:30:06.409 --> 00:30:07.549

into a machine and we're

00:30:07.569 --> 00:30:09.390

not going to stop.

00:30:09.590 --> 00:30:10.610

And obviously,

00:30:10.950 --> 00:30:12.111

that rubbed some

00:30:12.151 --> 00:30:13.051

missionaries the wrong way.

00:30:13.091 --> 00:30:14.711

But I was full team him.

00:30:14.891 --> 00:30:15.752

I worshipped him.

00:30:16.972 --> 00:30:17.732

And I was just like,

00:30:18.653 --> 00:30:20.413

if he hasn't gotten the respect yet,

00:30:20.453 --> 00:30:21.714

he will get it instantly.

00:30:22.254 --> 00:30:23.394

I was like, we're going to do this.

00:30:23.434 --> 00:30:24.174

We're going to do that.

00:30:24.274 --> 00:30:26.375

And I'm talking to this

00:30:26.735 --> 00:30:27.996

member of the Seventy.

00:30:28.156 --> 00:30:28.436

Well,

00:30:28.916 --> 00:30:30.696

my mission president is sitting right

00:30:30.716 --> 00:30:31.777

there during this.

00:30:32.913 --> 00:30:33.934

whoa that's really putting

00:30:33.974 --> 00:30:37.176

you on the spot yeah yeah

00:30:37.357 --> 00:30:39.158

it was it was very intense

00:30:39.238 --> 00:30:40.359

and so i can kind of just

00:30:40.399 --> 00:30:43.581

show you um the intricacies

00:30:43.621 --> 00:30:44.602

in the system that the

00:30:44.642 --> 00:30:45.583

church is and they're

00:30:45.623 --> 00:30:46.484

they're making sure

00:30:46.644 --> 00:30:48.245

everything you're checking

00:30:48.265 --> 00:30:50.127

all the boxes right now

00:30:50.247 --> 00:30:51.368

okay can you answer this

00:30:51.388 --> 00:30:52.528

question for me because

00:30:53.209 --> 00:30:54.730

i've never like people have

00:30:54.790 --> 00:30:55.591

explained this to me and

00:30:55.631 --> 00:30:56.351

i've never gotten a

00:30:56.412 --> 00:30:58.753

satisfactory answer what in

00:30:58.773 --> 00:31:01.856

the world is the quorum of the seventy

00:31:03.245 --> 00:31:04.425

Like I know it's leadership.

00:31:04.706 --> 00:31:05.546

I know, I know it.

00:31:05.726 --> 00:31:06.086

I know it.

00:31:06.386 --> 00:31:07.487

Like these are the dudes who

00:31:07.547 --> 00:31:08.587

sit on the stand during

00:31:08.627 --> 00:31:09.447

general conference.

00:31:09.487 --> 00:31:10.728

They all get their stipend.

00:31:10.748 --> 00:31:12.848

They all get their living allowance and,

00:31:13.048 --> 00:31:14.109

and whatever, you know,

00:31:14.729 --> 00:31:16.110

I know that they go around

00:31:16.150 --> 00:31:18.490

and visit and just like you're saying,

00:31:18.510 --> 00:31:18.730

you know,

00:31:18.750 --> 00:31:20.011

they check in with the leadership,

00:31:20.051 --> 00:31:21.712

how are things working, you know?

00:31:23.032 --> 00:31:24.452

But I cannot for the life of

00:31:24.533 --> 00:31:27.394

me figure out like what,

00:31:27.614 --> 00:31:28.754

what's the point of that court?

00:31:28.774 --> 00:31:29.674

Like I, okay.

00:31:29.814 --> 00:31:31.195

Intellectually understand it, but like,

00:31:32.449 --> 00:31:33.809

in the hierarchy of the church.

00:31:35.750 --> 00:31:37.631

It's like bishop, stake president,

00:31:38.151 --> 00:31:39.811

area president, right?

00:31:41.012 --> 00:31:42.512

Are the area presidents part

00:31:42.532 --> 00:31:43.693

of the Quorum of the Seventy?

00:31:43.833 --> 00:31:44.853

Why is it called the Quorum

00:31:44.893 --> 00:31:45.533

of the Seventy?

00:31:45.913 --> 00:31:47.334

There aren't seventy of them.

00:31:47.654 --> 00:31:48.714

I just could never make this

00:31:48.774 --> 00:31:50.055

make sense in my brain.

00:31:50.754 --> 00:31:51.995

Man, at one time I did.

00:31:52.096 --> 00:31:54.438

So I was kind of just going

00:31:54.739 --> 00:31:56.701

Googling him and seeing the history.

00:31:56.781 --> 00:31:59.083

So it appears that, yeah,

00:31:59.444 --> 00:32:01.006

because obviously you have bishops,

00:32:01.046 --> 00:32:02.888

stake presidents in what you said,

00:32:02.968 --> 00:32:05.611

high councilmen area there.

00:32:06.852 --> 00:32:08.053

it said he was in charge of

00:32:08.093 --> 00:32:10.155

a certain area so I think

00:32:10.215 --> 00:32:12.517

it's just the uppers in the

00:32:12.577 --> 00:32:15.540

localness um report to him

00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:16.721

because as he was always

00:32:16.761 --> 00:32:18.042

like and you know from this

00:32:18.062 --> 00:32:19.303

time to this time he served

00:32:19.343 --> 00:32:21.325

the Salt Lake City Utah

00:32:21.365 --> 00:32:23.987

Valley area and I think

00:32:24.027 --> 00:32:26.289

they just they keep keep

00:32:26.309 --> 00:32:27.490

tabs visit visit

00:32:27.510 --> 00:32:28.531

occasionally meet with the

00:32:28.571 --> 00:32:29.732

leadership making sure

00:32:29.792 --> 00:32:30.773

maybe communicating

00:32:31.405 --> 00:32:33.207

from the uh even the quorum

00:32:33.247 --> 00:32:34.788

of the twelve of things

00:32:34.828 --> 00:32:35.709

that are coming and what

00:32:35.729 --> 00:32:37.390

they're focusing on but i

00:32:37.410 --> 00:32:38.391

think it's just a glorified

00:32:38.531 --> 00:32:39.752

go visit different churches

00:32:40.193 --> 00:32:42.074

each week and um but in

00:32:42.114 --> 00:32:43.435

terms of like the meetings

00:32:43.455 --> 00:32:44.136

that the quorum of the

00:32:44.176 --> 00:32:45.517

seventy have i i don't know

00:32:45.577 --> 00:32:46.478

i think we've got to do

00:32:46.498 --> 00:32:47.359

some research and figure

00:32:47.379 --> 00:32:48.460

that out so i don't feel

00:32:49.580 --> 00:32:52.263

like under uh informed on

00:32:52.303 --> 00:32:53.464

that but yeah i'm not quite

00:32:53.524 --> 00:32:54.985

sure but every time they

00:32:55.025 --> 00:32:57.227

mentioned it he was in charge of an area

00:32:58.021 --> 00:33:01.423

And I have to assume those are, you know,

00:33:01.584 --> 00:33:04.686

areas, stakes, and then he communicates,

00:33:06.387 --> 00:33:06.667

you know,

00:33:06.747 --> 00:33:08.609

bringing the information down the line,

00:33:08.869 --> 00:33:11.390

you know, just like leadership hierarchy.

00:33:11.871 --> 00:33:12.051

Yeah,

00:33:12.131 --> 00:33:13.592

like they get their marching orders

00:33:13.652 --> 00:33:16.154

from the Fifteen who are in charge.

00:33:16.334 --> 00:33:17.355

And then, you know,

00:33:17.395 --> 00:33:18.355

they sort of bring that

00:33:18.435 --> 00:33:20.117

message to wherever they're

00:33:20.137 --> 00:33:22.218

visiting and say, you know,

00:33:23.019 --> 00:33:24.059

this is what the Fifteen

00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:25.040

are telling us you need to

00:33:25.060 --> 00:33:27.062

focus on or fix or change or whatever.

00:33:28.803 --> 00:33:29.183

So, yeah,

00:33:29.283 --> 00:33:31.065

I think it's it's sort of like in

00:33:31.085 --> 00:33:32.006

the Catholic Church where

00:33:32.046 --> 00:33:33.847

they have cardinals over

00:33:33.927 --> 00:33:35.489

certain areas or whatever.

00:33:36.249 --> 00:33:37.310

It really is a machine.

00:33:37.370 --> 00:33:38.812

It really is a corporation.

00:33:39.232 --> 00:33:39.532

You know,

00:33:39.672 --> 00:33:42.094

it functions exactly the same way.

00:33:43.215 --> 00:33:45.477

I just never understood, I guess,

00:33:45.577 --> 00:33:47.059

why they called it the Seventy.

00:33:47.139 --> 00:33:48.620

I think originally there were seven.

00:33:48.780 --> 00:33:49.140

I don't know.

00:33:49.561 --> 00:33:50.462

It was one of those things

00:33:50.482 --> 00:33:52.203

that when I left Mormonism, I was like,

00:33:52.603 --> 00:33:52.683

well,

00:33:52.703 --> 00:33:53.704

there's something I never have to

00:33:53.744 --> 00:33:54.665

figure out or worry about.

00:33:54.685 --> 00:33:54.825

Yeah.

00:33:56.415 --> 00:33:57.236

and here we are talking

00:33:57.276 --> 00:33:59.285

about right

00:33:59.285 --> 00:33:59.884

yeah they

00:33:59.924 --> 00:34:01.526

are for sure paid they're

00:34:01.546 --> 00:34:02.146

apart they're on the

00:34:02.186 --> 00:34:04.128

payroll they get a car they

00:34:04.148 --> 00:34:05.889

get a free car they get

00:34:06.069 --> 00:34:06.850

they're they're in the

00:34:07.030 --> 00:34:09.352

they're in the paid realm right

00:34:10.579 --> 00:34:11.720

Whereas like stake presidents,

00:34:11.740 --> 00:34:13.642

high councilmen, area presidents,

00:34:13.682 --> 00:34:14.283

they're not.

00:34:14.423 --> 00:34:15.203

These guys are.

00:34:16.104 --> 00:34:19.107

So overseeing global church administration,

00:34:19.588 --> 00:34:21.069

the world is divided into

00:34:21.209 --> 00:34:22.190

areas and members of the

00:34:22.210 --> 00:34:23.531

Quorum of the Seventy are

00:34:23.571 --> 00:34:24.853

assigned to preside over

00:34:24.913 --> 00:34:26.054

different areas of the church.

00:34:26.514 --> 00:34:28.216

They ensure church policies, handbooks,

00:34:28.256 --> 00:34:29.677

and leadership guidelines are followed.

00:34:30.198 --> 00:34:31.259

They report to the Quorum of

00:34:31.299 --> 00:34:32.300

the Twelve Apostles.

00:34:36.054 --> 00:34:37.655

public relations and outreach.

00:34:37.675 --> 00:34:39.016

They speak at conferences.

00:34:39.076 --> 00:34:41.397

He's given talks in general conference,

00:34:42.418 --> 00:34:43.978

church discipline and authority,

00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:46.060

mission oversight and direction,

00:34:47.080 --> 00:34:48.781

and supervising local leaders.

00:34:48.861 --> 00:34:50.982

There's the first and second quorum.

00:34:51.002 --> 00:34:52.543

These are high-ranking members.

00:34:53.184 --> 00:34:55.125

They often serve until

00:34:55.185 --> 00:34:56.766

retirement age at the age

00:34:56.806 --> 00:34:58.086

of seventy and have

00:34:58.146 --> 00:34:59.767

significant influence in

00:34:59.827 --> 00:35:00.508

church government.

00:35:01.347 --> 00:35:02.208

Area Seventies,

00:35:02.248 --> 00:35:03.248

these leaders are not

00:35:03.308 --> 00:35:05.310

general authorities but serve regionally.

00:35:05.890 --> 00:35:06.791

Key takeaway,

00:35:06.951 --> 00:35:09.172

Quorum of the Seventy acts as

00:35:09.232 --> 00:35:11.233

the enforcers of the system,

00:35:11.454 --> 00:35:12.674

ensuring that directives

00:35:12.694 --> 00:35:13.795

from the First Presidency

00:35:13.815 --> 00:35:14.876

and the Twelve Apostles are

00:35:14.956 --> 00:35:16.817

implemented without question.

00:35:16.837 --> 00:35:18.418

They provide oversight, discipline,

00:35:18.438 --> 00:35:19.819

and administrative control

00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:21.820

while keeping lower-level leaders,

00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:22.881

stake presidents, bishops,

00:35:22.921 --> 00:35:24.282

and mission presidents in line.

00:35:24.302 --> 00:35:25.803

So there we go.

00:35:26.125 --> 00:35:28.127

Wow, that's some telling language.

00:35:28.287 --> 00:35:31.329

I mean, even from AI, you know,

00:35:31.409 --> 00:35:33.771

to sort of glean that

00:35:33.811 --> 00:35:35.192

they're the enforcers,

00:35:35.533 --> 00:35:36.894

they're there to keep people in line.

00:35:37.354 --> 00:35:39.456

And so just so that people understand too,

00:35:39.676 --> 00:35:41.758

especially those who've never been Mormon,

00:35:42.198 --> 00:35:43.899

the way that you get to be

00:35:43.959 --> 00:35:45.160

called as a bishop,

00:35:46.081 --> 00:35:47.682

this blew my mind when I found this out,

00:35:48.183 --> 00:35:50.465

that the state presidency

00:35:50.645 --> 00:35:51.505

gets together and they look

00:35:51.546 --> 00:35:52.767

at the tithing records and

00:35:52.787 --> 00:35:55.629

they see who's paying the most tithing.

00:35:56.229 --> 00:35:56.329

Yeah.

00:35:56.369 --> 00:35:57.630

It's the top five dudes.

00:35:57.770 --> 00:35:58.250

And then they,

00:35:58.450 --> 00:35:59.711

I guess they pray about it

00:35:59.811 --> 00:36:02.452

and get inspiration as to, you know,

00:36:02.472 --> 00:36:03.693

which of those five dudes

00:36:03.753 --> 00:36:05.894

is going to be the best to be the Bishop.

00:36:06.794 --> 00:36:08.995

And then stake presidents

00:36:09.015 --> 00:36:10.596

kind of the same thing, right?

00:36:10.696 --> 00:36:11.056

It's like,

00:36:11.116 --> 00:36:12.817

have they served in leadership before?

00:36:12.837 --> 00:36:13.737

Have they been a Bishop?

00:36:14.138 --> 00:36:15.378

They usually go from being

00:36:15.438 --> 00:36:18.260

on Bishop to being on the stake, uh,

00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:19.400

stake council.

00:36:20.197 --> 00:36:20.958

Is that what it's called?

00:36:20.998 --> 00:36:21.940

The state council?

00:36:22.762 --> 00:36:23.323

For some reason,

00:36:23.363 --> 00:36:25.006

that doesn't sound right in my mind.

00:36:25.026 --> 00:36:25.728

The high council?

00:36:25.828 --> 00:36:27.291

It's like the high council.

00:36:27.311 --> 00:36:27.692

There it is.

00:36:27.752 --> 00:36:27.932

Yeah.

00:36:28.093 --> 00:36:30.077

The high council where...

00:36:32.126 --> 00:36:33.446

It's like former bishops,

00:36:33.866 --> 00:36:35.527

formerly there were twelve of them,

00:36:36.247 --> 00:36:37.927

and they would go around

00:36:37.967 --> 00:36:38.807

and visit the different

00:36:38.867 --> 00:36:41.028

wards and report back to

00:36:41.068 --> 00:36:41.988

the stake president what

00:36:42.008 --> 00:36:43.528

was happening in the different wards.

00:36:44.568 --> 00:36:45.669

So if you've served as a

00:36:46.109 --> 00:36:47.069

bishop and you've been on

00:36:47.109 --> 00:36:47.909

the high council,

00:36:48.069 --> 00:36:50.229

then you're eligible for stake president.

00:36:50.570 --> 00:36:51.910

Stake president gets chosen

00:36:51.950 --> 00:36:52.790

much the same way.

00:36:52.810 --> 00:36:53.730

It's like if you meet those

00:36:53.770 --> 00:36:55.590

two qualifications and

00:36:55.610 --> 00:36:56.711

you're paying lots of tithing,

00:36:56.751 --> 00:36:57.831

you can be a stake president.

00:36:58.431 --> 00:36:59.472

then once you've served as a

00:36:59.532 --> 00:37:00.312

stake president,

00:37:00.352 --> 00:37:01.733

you're eligible for like

00:37:01.834 --> 00:37:04.095

mission president or, you know,

00:37:04.255 --> 00:37:05.476

area authority or whatever.

00:37:05.917 --> 00:37:07.438

But it really is just a big

00:37:07.918 --> 00:37:09.199

bunch of cronies.

00:37:09.579 --> 00:37:11.521

You know, it's like, who do you know?

00:37:11.621 --> 00:37:12.842

Who would you recommend?

00:37:13.362 --> 00:37:15.564

You know, whose names have been out there?

00:37:16.064 --> 00:37:17.085

You know, that kind of stuff.

00:37:17.105 --> 00:37:18.666

It's just, I don't know.

00:37:18.706 --> 00:37:18.886

Yeah.

00:37:18.946 --> 00:37:20.727

It's not a led by the spirit thing.

00:37:20.767 --> 00:37:22.309

It's literally at the Bishop level,

00:37:22.389 --> 00:37:23.770

it's top five type payers.

00:37:23.810 --> 00:37:24.450

Let's pick one.

00:37:25.151 --> 00:37:26.852

And then stake president, um,

00:37:28.300 --> 00:37:29.200

I know this because my

00:37:29.240 --> 00:37:30.501

mission president explained

00:37:30.541 --> 00:37:31.281

how his mission,

00:37:31.981 --> 00:37:33.622

his stake presidency interview.

00:37:33.662 --> 00:37:34.682

And there was like ten or

00:37:34.722 --> 00:37:35.943

fifteen of them called in.

00:37:37.003 --> 00:37:40.824

And then at the end, they ask, you know,

00:37:41.044 --> 00:37:42.445

give us three to five other

00:37:42.485 --> 00:37:43.405

names who we should be

00:37:43.445 --> 00:37:44.325

considering for this.

00:37:44.826 --> 00:37:45.166

Wow.

00:37:45.686 --> 00:37:46.246

Wow.

00:37:46.286 --> 00:37:46.926

That's telling.

00:37:47.547 --> 00:37:47.907

Yes.

00:37:48.267 --> 00:37:48.767

Yes, it is.

00:37:48.827 --> 00:37:48.967

So.

00:37:48.987 --> 00:37:49.127

Wow.

00:37:51.268 --> 00:37:54.149

So he came and so we had that thing.

00:37:54.249 --> 00:37:54.649

But like,

00:37:55.589 --> 00:37:56.770

I'm going to comment on the

00:37:56.810 --> 00:37:57.810

experience we had.

00:37:58.209 --> 00:38:03.074

with Greg and Debbie at dinner.

00:38:03.495 --> 00:38:06.819

And so she shows up and I,

00:38:07.179 --> 00:38:08.200

and I've thought about this a lot.

00:38:08.220 --> 00:38:09.101

Cause I'm like, well, John, you're,

00:38:09.121 --> 00:38:10.323

you're trying to be a healer now.

00:38:10.343 --> 00:38:12.805

We don't want to be talking S about people,

00:38:12.825 --> 00:38:14.247

but I feel like this is,

00:38:14.307 --> 00:38:15.769

this is punching up and you

00:38:15.829 --> 00:38:16.910

always want to be punching up.

00:38:16.990 --> 00:38:18.772

I don't want to punch and be arguing.

00:38:20.120 --> 00:38:21.061

with other Mormons.

00:38:21.221 --> 00:38:22.502

I want to punch the system

00:38:22.642 --> 00:38:23.442

and I want to punch the

00:38:23.462 --> 00:38:26.444

leadership who's fostering all of this.

00:38:26.664 --> 00:38:26.924

Right.

00:38:27.204 --> 00:38:28.084

Kind of like government,

00:38:28.104 --> 00:38:28.745

like we shouldn't be

00:38:28.765 --> 00:38:29.545

attacking each other.

00:38:29.585 --> 00:38:30.526

We should be attacking the

00:38:30.546 --> 00:38:33.767

system and the leaders of this.

00:38:33.847 --> 00:38:34.128

Right.

00:38:34.168 --> 00:38:35.568

So systems, not people.

00:38:36.609 --> 00:38:36.909

Yeah.

00:38:37.069 --> 00:38:37.149

And,

00:38:37.209 --> 00:38:38.630

but once you're in the system and you

00:38:38.670 --> 00:38:40.031

don't do anything to change it,

00:38:40.231 --> 00:38:41.331

you're culpable, you know?

00:38:41.932 --> 00:38:44.993

So she shows up and, you know,

00:38:45.033 --> 00:38:45.714

bless her heart,

00:38:45.774 --> 00:38:47.775

her whole life from the day she died,

00:38:49.111 --> 00:38:51.993

married him has been in his shadow, right?

00:38:52.073 --> 00:38:53.334

He's a football player and

00:38:53.354 --> 00:38:55.036

then just church calling

00:38:55.056 --> 00:38:56.117

after church calling.

00:38:56.777 --> 00:38:58.799

And she's just the wife and

00:38:59.019 --> 00:39:00.180

I don't know what her hopes

00:39:00.200 --> 00:39:00.820

and dreams are,

00:39:00.900 --> 00:39:02.221

but I'm sure she had them

00:39:02.402 --> 00:39:03.703

and she wasn't able to do that.

00:39:03.783 --> 00:39:04.823

So now I'm able to look at

00:39:04.843 --> 00:39:05.924

it with a lot more compassion,

00:39:05.944 --> 00:39:10.528

but she was dripping in diamonds, jewelry,

00:39:11.489 --> 00:39:11.689

um,

00:39:12.618 --> 00:39:14.118

And she was in a very nice,

00:39:14.158 --> 00:39:18.059

I still remember it, blue skirt suit,

00:39:18.259 --> 00:39:20.000

just care perfectly.

00:39:20.420 --> 00:39:21.640

Everything was perfect.

00:39:22.140 --> 00:39:24.201

And she was just very like, uh-huh.

00:39:24.281 --> 00:39:25.081

And she would make like

00:39:25.121 --> 00:39:27.882

backhanded comments to the

00:39:27.942 --> 00:39:29.542

mission president's wife

00:39:29.642 --> 00:39:31.963

about the decorations and the dinner.

00:39:32.563 --> 00:39:33.983

And even I was taken aback

00:39:34.003 --> 00:39:34.984

and I looked over at the

00:39:35.004 --> 00:39:35.904

mission president's wife

00:39:35.924 --> 00:39:36.624

and I was just like,

00:39:37.565 --> 00:39:38.406

okay.

00:39:38.426 --> 00:39:43.592

And I'm just very kind of judgy and,

00:39:43.852 --> 00:39:45.895

and just miserable.

00:39:46.095 --> 00:39:47.216

And I can imagine that would

00:39:47.256 --> 00:39:48.518

not be a fun life to just

00:39:48.558 --> 00:39:49.539

follow your husband around

00:39:49.579 --> 00:39:52.162

and doing all this church BS, you know?

00:39:52.843 --> 00:39:54.324

so there was that part of it

00:39:54.565 --> 00:39:57.187

and then greg was okay you

00:39:57.207 --> 00:39:59.729

know he was he was stern he

00:39:59.770 --> 00:40:00.670

wasn't that much of a

00:40:00.710 --> 00:40:02.832

talker he did brag about

00:40:02.972 --> 00:40:04.154

the car dealerships he

00:40:04.354 --> 00:40:06.095

owned and that he could get

00:40:06.135 --> 00:40:06.996

my mission president a

00:40:07.036 --> 00:40:09.498

cooler car and you know she

00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:10.600

did brag about the money

00:40:10.620 --> 00:40:11.941

they had and all of her

00:40:11.981 --> 00:40:13.382

jewels and what it costs

00:40:14.003 --> 00:40:14.803

right that's what a mission

00:40:14.823 --> 00:40:16.305

president needs is a cooler car

00:40:17.575 --> 00:40:18.555

Yeah, absolutely.

00:40:18.956 --> 00:40:19.336

For sure.

00:40:19.896 --> 00:40:22.337

And so I, and I'm, I'm fresh.

00:40:22.537 --> 00:40:24.598

I have just gotten the apex

00:40:24.758 --> 00:40:26.119

leadership role that I've

00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:27.019

been dreaming of.

00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:28.160

And I'm sitting there with

00:40:28.200 --> 00:40:31.041

like higher ups expecting to see Jesus,

00:40:31.241 --> 00:40:31.401

you know,

00:40:31.421 --> 00:40:32.942

and have a great religious experience,

00:40:32.962 --> 00:40:33.822

which is unfair.

00:40:33.842 --> 00:40:35.023

Yeah.

00:40:35.143 --> 00:40:35.643

I'm just like,

00:40:37.268 --> 00:40:38.428

these aren't even great people.

00:40:38.768 --> 00:40:39.809

Like I was,

00:40:39.889 --> 00:40:41.309

it was a very surreal moment

00:40:41.349 --> 00:40:42.509

and I'm looking across it

00:40:42.789 --> 00:40:43.449

because I had already

00:40:43.489 --> 00:40:44.890

connected with my mission

00:40:44.930 --> 00:40:47.870

president's wife and my

00:40:47.930 --> 00:40:48.611

mission president.

00:40:48.651 --> 00:40:49.131

Like I was,

00:40:49.351 --> 00:40:50.791

I'm able to do that through the

00:40:50.811 --> 00:40:51.871

skills that I've learned.

00:40:52.211 --> 00:40:54.372

And we're kind of looking at each other,

00:40:54.412 --> 00:40:55.512

like giving each other the look,

00:40:55.532 --> 00:40:56.172

like we're already

00:40:56.192 --> 00:40:59.893

gossiping just by looking at this.

00:41:00.053 --> 00:41:00.953

And it was just,

00:41:01.393 --> 00:41:03.914

and then they left and we gossiped.

00:41:05.029 --> 00:41:06.290

for an hour about them.

00:41:06.890 --> 00:41:07.870

And then he went up and

00:41:08.170 --> 00:41:09.411

spoke to all our missions,

00:41:10.191 --> 00:41:11.272

missionaries the next day.

00:41:11.352 --> 00:41:14.293

So that was just a very telling thing.

00:41:14.313 --> 00:41:15.774

And I think we even said like,

00:41:16.774 --> 00:41:18.575

they're not very Christ-like, you know,

00:41:18.995 --> 00:41:20.676

like she was just bragging

00:41:20.696 --> 00:41:21.377

about the money,

00:41:21.437 --> 00:41:22.597

bragging about the jewelry

00:41:22.617 --> 00:41:24.098

showing up and just dripping.

00:41:24.138 --> 00:41:24.958

And I think she even made a

00:41:25.018 --> 00:41:26.659

comment like in Salt Lake, she can't

00:41:27.234 --> 00:41:28.215

wear all that much.

00:41:28.455 --> 00:41:29.216

And, you know,

00:41:29.296 --> 00:41:30.697

so when she gets out of there,

00:41:30.717 --> 00:41:32.558

she wants to, to show it off.

00:41:32.578 --> 00:41:34.280

And I'm like, you know what?

00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:36.061

No girl, do, do your thing.

00:41:37.122 --> 00:41:38.523

You know, flaunt that jewelry,

00:41:38.663 --> 00:41:40.125

do whatever you got to do.

00:41:40.165 --> 00:41:41.566

Your life does not sound fun.

00:41:41.646 --> 00:41:42.887

Obviously at the time I did

00:41:42.927 --> 00:41:44.628

not think that I was just like, yeah.

00:41:45.469 --> 00:41:45.769

Okay.

00:41:46.390 --> 00:41:49.392

So this is how the church is run.

00:41:50.013 --> 00:41:50.873

This is interesting.

00:41:50.913 --> 00:41:52.315

And I'm logging all of this.

00:41:52.335 --> 00:41:52.675

I'm like,

00:41:52.715 --> 00:41:54.016

so basically they call the use

00:41:54.296 --> 00:41:55.137

used car salesman.

00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:56.540

Now, that's unfair.

00:41:56.560 --> 00:41:57.101

I mean,

00:41:57.181 --> 00:41:59.802

he played football at BYU four years,

00:41:59.902 --> 00:42:01.022

served a mission in Chile,

00:42:01.623 --> 00:42:02.603

became a mission president

00:42:02.623 --> 00:42:03.323

at thirty eight.

00:42:04.284 --> 00:42:05.464

And then at forty six became

00:42:05.484 --> 00:42:06.425

a general authority.

00:42:07.285 --> 00:42:09.426

And I was just like.

00:42:09.466 --> 00:42:10.747

Honestly, very disappointed.

00:42:12.147 --> 00:42:12.727

Yeah,

00:42:12.847 --> 00:42:14.208

I honestly thought I was just like

00:42:14.428 --> 00:42:15.969

our mission president kills this guy.

00:42:16.589 --> 00:42:18.590

Like we need more men like

00:42:18.650 --> 00:42:20.231

my mission president in there.

00:42:20.271 --> 00:42:20.971

And I would say that.

00:42:22.032 --> 00:42:23.712

And they would never do that

00:42:23.772 --> 00:42:25.033

because he was too.

00:42:27.789 --> 00:42:31.032

not like that he was I don't

00:42:31.052 --> 00:42:32.854

know real it's hard to

00:42:32.874 --> 00:42:34.616

explain but I remember that

00:42:34.716 --> 00:42:36.198

firsthand just being like

00:42:36.738 --> 00:42:39.121

that was that was an odd experience

00:42:40.055 --> 00:42:42.796

Yeah, and it's so disappointing, you know,

00:42:42.976 --> 00:42:44.837

as a young idealistic missionary,

00:42:45.277 --> 00:42:46.877

I can just imagine, you know,

00:42:47.037 --> 00:42:48.838

you're expecting, you know,

00:42:48.878 --> 00:42:50.719

and I had this expectation too,

00:42:50.779 --> 00:42:52.619

that you're expecting that

00:42:52.659 --> 00:42:55.040

the higher up you get in

00:42:55.080 --> 00:42:56.440

leadership in the church,

00:42:56.501 --> 00:42:57.461

maybe the more humble,

00:42:57.501 --> 00:42:58.761

maybe the more Christ-like,

00:42:59.682 --> 00:43:02.182

and the more kind, the more loving,

00:43:02.202 --> 00:43:03.003

right?

00:43:04.143 --> 00:43:07.085

the church that I wanted to believe in,

00:43:07.945 --> 00:43:09.426

you know, that, that was it.

00:43:09.506 --> 00:43:10.807

It was like, you're,

00:43:11.167 --> 00:43:12.027

you're getting more

00:43:12.087 --> 00:43:14.369

Christ-like and more humble as you,

00:43:14.549 --> 00:43:16.029

as you sort of go up in

00:43:16.070 --> 00:43:17.270

leadership and who we want

00:43:17.330 --> 00:43:20.672

leading the church is people who are,

00:43:21.793 --> 00:43:23.333

you know, who are emulating,

00:43:23.594 --> 00:43:26.115

exemplifying the traits of Jesus Christ,

00:43:26.215 --> 00:43:28.656

you know, kindness, compassion, love,

00:43:28.756 --> 00:43:31.158

long suffering, humility.

00:43:31.178 --> 00:43:31.778

Yeah.

00:43:32.238 --> 00:43:33.719

And that to me was the big thing.

00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:36.502

I had a similar

00:43:36.722 --> 00:43:38.343

disappointing experience

00:43:39.564 --> 00:43:40.745

meeting David Bednar.

00:43:41.966 --> 00:43:43.427

Although, you know,

00:43:43.487 --> 00:43:46.329

I have to say I was way too

00:43:46.389 --> 00:43:47.790

Mormon at the time to be

00:43:47.830 --> 00:43:50.712

disappointed by it, but I just noted it.

00:43:50.733 --> 00:43:52.194

You know, I just noted it.

00:43:52.374 --> 00:43:55.997

And so he came to San Antonio to speak.

00:43:56.037 --> 00:43:57.478

Of course, it was a huge deal.

00:43:57.658 --> 00:43:57.898

You know,

00:43:57.938 --> 00:44:00.420

we hadn't had an apostle there in,

00:44:00.460 --> 00:44:01.661

you know, a really long time.

00:44:02.664 --> 00:44:05.447

And, you know,

00:44:05.507 --> 00:44:06.368

he came to speak at our

00:44:06.408 --> 00:44:07.530

state conference or we had

00:44:07.550 --> 00:44:09.191

like a special meeting that was just,

00:44:09.251 --> 00:44:11.133

we called just because he was there,

00:44:11.294 --> 00:44:11.599

you know.

00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:12.764

we had the meeting,

00:44:12.884 --> 00:44:13.484

of course,

00:44:13.564 --> 00:44:15.465

like it was very inspirational.

00:44:15.906 --> 00:44:16.146

You know,

00:44:16.406 --> 00:44:17.666

I can talk about what he talked

00:44:17.686 --> 00:44:18.527

about some other time,

00:44:18.567 --> 00:44:19.547

but just to say that when

00:44:19.567 --> 00:44:20.848

the meeting was over, of course,

00:44:21.448 --> 00:44:23.489

everybody wants to go shake his hand,

00:44:24.850 --> 00:44:25.150

you know,

00:44:25.270 --> 00:44:27.071

and so he's up there on the

00:44:27.091 --> 00:44:29.873

stand and people are lining

00:44:29.953 --> 00:44:32.334

up to go up there and shake his hand.

00:44:33.176 --> 00:44:35.957

And there still is like

00:44:36.137 --> 00:44:38.058

organ music softly playing, you know,

00:44:38.118 --> 00:44:39.498

it's still a sort of a

00:44:39.598 --> 00:44:40.358

reverent environment.

00:44:40.378 --> 00:44:42.279

There's like a low rumble of

00:44:42.339 --> 00:44:43.259

whispering going on.

00:44:44.380 --> 00:44:46.380

And at one point he,

00:44:46.481 --> 00:44:47.961

he just stopped talking to

00:44:47.981 --> 00:44:49.141

whoever he was talking to.

00:44:49.261 --> 00:44:51.282

And he went up to the podium and he said,

00:44:52.022 --> 00:44:53.043

brothers and sisters,

00:44:53.663 --> 00:44:56.364

when the spirit leaves, so must I.

00:44:57.598 --> 00:44:59.881

And it wasn't like a gentle

00:45:00.281 --> 00:45:01.222

sort of a rebuke.

00:45:01.403 --> 00:45:03.305

It was like, shut up.

00:45:03.705 --> 00:45:05.027

That was the tone of voice

00:45:05.527 --> 00:45:07.530

that he was using to tell

00:45:07.570 --> 00:45:08.471

us that we were getting too

00:45:08.531 --> 00:45:09.732

loud inside the chapel.

00:45:10.293 --> 00:45:13.737

And I just remember thinking, what?

00:45:13.797 --> 00:45:14.118

What?

00:45:16.104 --> 00:45:18.086

Did an apostle of the Lord

00:45:18.126 --> 00:45:20.227

Jesus Christ just tell us to shut up,

00:45:20.327 --> 00:45:20.848

basically?

00:45:21.048 --> 00:45:22.869

I mean, it was stern.

00:45:23.170 --> 00:45:25.351

It was not kind in any way.

00:45:25.912 --> 00:45:29.034

So I guess it didn't really

00:45:29.094 --> 00:45:30.215

ruffle my feathers enough

00:45:30.255 --> 00:45:31.236

at the time that I was like,

00:45:31.256 --> 00:45:32.136

what's wrong with this guy?

00:45:32.557 --> 00:45:34.838

But it was sort of just this

00:45:34.878 --> 00:45:40.002

little dissonant tone of like,

00:45:40.162 --> 00:45:42.524

does he really represent Jesus Christ?

00:45:43.745 --> 00:45:44.906

It's those little moments.

00:45:45.462 --> 00:45:47.063

his mask came off for a

00:45:47.103 --> 00:45:48.164

little bit and you see that

00:45:48.204 --> 00:45:50.306

and it's like jarring.

00:45:50.326 --> 00:45:52.488

It's like, Whoa,

00:45:52.508 --> 00:45:53.608

that's a great way to put it.

00:45:53.669 --> 00:45:55.650

Like the mask slipped just for a second.

00:45:56.090 --> 00:45:56.511

Yeah.

00:45:56.591 --> 00:45:57.171

And it was like,

00:45:57.992 --> 00:45:58.893

I didn't realize it was a

00:45:58.933 --> 00:46:02.536

mask at the time, but now whenever I,

00:46:02.896 --> 00:46:04.077

whenever I see him

00:46:04.357 --> 00:46:06.679

recordings of him speaking anywhere,

00:46:07.399 --> 00:46:09.241

it's so obvious to me now

00:46:09.901 --> 00:46:11.583

being out of the church and

00:46:11.643 --> 00:46:12.624

having learned the

00:46:13.324 --> 00:46:14.784

about narcissistic abuse

00:46:15.264 --> 00:46:16.285

having learned that that's

00:46:16.325 --> 00:46:18.125

what i went through being

00:46:18.225 --> 00:46:19.765

able to spot narcissistic

00:46:19.805 --> 00:46:21.346

behavior now i can't unsee

00:46:21.386 --> 00:46:23.306

it you know so every time i

00:46:23.366 --> 00:46:25.127

see him speak or interact

00:46:25.147 --> 00:46:26.607

with people i can see it in

00:46:26.627 --> 00:46:27.607

his face i can see it in

00:46:27.647 --> 00:46:29.268

his body language i can

00:46:29.328 --> 00:46:30.468

hear it in the tone of his

00:46:30.508 --> 00:46:32.748

voice you know it's it's so

00:46:32.868 --> 00:46:34.429

easy for me to detect now

00:46:34.569 --> 00:46:35.309

and that's one of the

00:46:35.329 --> 00:46:36.229

reasons why we're having

00:46:36.269 --> 00:46:37.289

these conversations because

00:46:37.329 --> 00:46:38.450

i want other people to be

00:46:38.490 --> 00:46:40.370

able to see it for what it is as well

00:46:41.327 --> 00:46:41.607

Yeah.

00:46:41.808 --> 00:46:44.650

Like these are just men that

00:46:44.670 --> 00:46:46.532

have no special anything

00:46:46.772 --> 00:46:48.894

and they're raised in Salt

00:46:48.914 --> 00:46:51.557

Lake and in the church and they're,

00:46:51.677 --> 00:46:51.917

they're,

00:46:52.477 --> 00:46:54.779

they have deep narcissistic tendencies.

00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:55.460

They don't take

00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:57.082

accountability and you are

00:46:57.722 --> 00:46:59.063

going to see their mask come off.

00:46:59.103 --> 00:47:01.406

And we're seeing that a lot with Bednar.

00:47:01.506 --> 00:47:01.706

I mean,

00:47:01.766 --> 00:47:03.267

Reddit's having a field day with him.

00:47:03.347 --> 00:47:05.950

And then some other gal,

00:47:06.813 --> 00:47:08.715

famous ex-Mormon influencer

00:47:08.775 --> 00:47:10.256

was reading off all these

00:47:10.397 --> 00:47:11.698

experiences with Bednar,

00:47:11.798 --> 00:47:12.679

and it's just like,

00:47:13.820 --> 00:47:14.861

that's who he really is.

00:47:15.682 --> 00:47:16.182

Bottom line.

00:47:17.343 --> 00:47:18.705

And it's... Yeah,

00:47:18.865 --> 00:47:23.009

not only are these men not Christ-like,

00:47:23.369 --> 00:47:25.171

they're not even good men, a lot of them.

00:47:25.291 --> 00:47:26.332

No, no.

00:47:26.753 --> 00:47:29.796

I mean, I just... There was...

00:47:31.612 --> 00:47:32.673

It's just sad.

00:47:32.753 --> 00:47:34.515

So, yeah,

00:47:35.015 --> 00:47:36.817

that was my first experience with,

00:47:38.158 --> 00:47:40.140

you know, a major church person.

00:47:40.160 --> 00:47:42.943

And I was underwhelmed and

00:47:43.003 --> 00:47:45.365

it was very quick for us

00:47:45.485 --> 00:47:47.047

all to kind of just scratch

00:47:47.087 --> 00:47:47.868

our heads and be like,

00:47:47.888 --> 00:47:49.849

did you all were we all here for that?

00:47:50.530 --> 00:47:51.311

Did that just happen?

00:47:51.351 --> 00:47:53.853

They're like the energy felt weird.

00:47:53.953 --> 00:47:54.394

Yeah.

00:47:55.761 --> 00:47:57.162

it was not a great feeling.

00:47:57.563 --> 00:48:00.044

And that kind of makes you think, well,

00:48:00.164 --> 00:48:01.865

these guys are running this church.

00:48:01.945 --> 00:48:03.206

But as you were,

00:48:03.386 --> 00:48:04.667

I was far too Mormon at the

00:48:04.687 --> 00:48:06.528

time to really take that in.

00:48:06.668 --> 00:48:07.609

I could see that now.

00:48:07.689 --> 00:48:07.989

Right.

00:48:08.430 --> 00:48:09.470

But it was just like, all right, well,

00:48:09.510 --> 00:48:09.971

he's gone.

00:48:10.031 --> 00:48:10.751

Let's get back to work.

00:48:10.951 --> 00:48:11.451

You know, come on.

00:48:12.552 --> 00:48:16.535

And so that I wanted to talk

00:48:16.555 --> 00:48:17.635

about that because that's

00:48:17.655 --> 00:48:18.676

how all these guys are.

00:48:18.796 --> 00:48:20.898

And I'm sure some of them are good men.

00:48:21.098 --> 00:48:23.599

But I remember later on in

00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:24.620

my mission as I had

00:48:25.386 --> 00:48:26.929

been with my mission president,

00:48:26.989 --> 00:48:27.991

seen his genius,

00:48:32.140 --> 00:48:33.422

I knew he would never be

00:48:33.482 --> 00:48:36.007

called higher up because I

00:48:36.107 --> 00:48:37.250

saw how he spoke.

00:48:38.483 --> 00:48:39.824

from the pulpit and I saw

00:48:39.864 --> 00:48:40.984

how they spoke from the

00:48:41.024 --> 00:48:42.705

pulpit and there were two

00:48:42.745 --> 00:48:43.665

very different things.

00:48:44.645 --> 00:48:46.546

Their BS, um,

00:48:46.806 --> 00:48:48.107

general conference talks

00:48:48.787 --> 00:48:49.547

don't do anything.

00:48:50.067 --> 00:48:50.247

I mean,

00:48:50.287 --> 00:48:51.988

every time my mission president spoke,

00:48:52.148 --> 00:48:53.969

it was like, everyone is listening.

00:48:54.289 --> 00:48:54.969

We are excited.

00:48:55.009 --> 00:48:55.769

He's going to give us some

00:48:55.949 --> 00:48:56.910

really good advice.

00:48:56.950 --> 00:48:59.491

He's going to, uh,

00:48:59.531 --> 00:49:00.631

get us all ready to run

00:49:00.671 --> 00:49:01.851

through a brick wall.

00:49:02.372 --> 00:49:03.092

And, um,

00:49:04.604 --> 00:49:06.265

Salt Lake wouldn't like that, honestly.

00:49:06.365 --> 00:49:07.106

He wouldn't fit in.

00:49:07.186 --> 00:49:10.548

And during my tenure as an assistant,

00:49:11.208 --> 00:49:11.849

I could see that.

00:49:12.049 --> 00:49:13.830

And I was honestly kind of sad about it.

00:49:14.270 --> 00:49:15.751

And I think I talked to him about it.

00:49:16.612 --> 00:49:18.753

And he was like, oh,

00:49:19.074 --> 00:49:20.214

they'll never call me to that.

00:49:20.555 --> 00:49:21.655

Because I think he knew too,

00:49:22.716 --> 00:49:23.697

which is very interesting.

00:49:23.937 --> 00:49:24.117

I mean,

00:49:24.137 --> 00:49:26.158

you're talking about a guy who got

00:49:26.198 --> 00:49:27.319

our mission up and

00:49:28.273 --> 00:49:30.755

ran you know ran it like a

00:49:30.795 --> 00:49:32.877

business and was there for

00:49:32.917 --> 00:49:34.559

his missionaries and he was

00:49:34.619 --> 00:49:35.980

not perfect and sometimes

00:49:36.020 --> 00:49:37.261

he ran it too much like a

00:49:37.321 --> 00:49:39.343

business and but we were

00:49:39.383 --> 00:49:40.524

really successful doing

00:49:40.564 --> 00:49:42.766

that very successful doing

00:49:42.806 --> 00:49:44.047

that and that's how the

00:49:44.087 --> 00:49:45.429

church runs it's a business

00:49:46.191 --> 00:49:46.891

Yeah.

00:49:47.291 --> 00:49:47.871

Yeah.

00:49:47.911 --> 00:49:48.832

So he came in,

00:49:48.932 --> 00:49:51.292

he sort of implemented some new policies.

00:49:51.872 --> 00:49:53.313

You guys started, you know,

00:49:53.353 --> 00:49:56.253

keeping track of different metrics and,

00:49:57.714 --> 00:49:57.934

you know,

00:49:57.954 --> 00:50:00.034

you started to see an increase

00:50:00.134 --> 00:50:02.094

in baptisms and that.

00:50:02.134 --> 00:50:03.195

So can you talk a little bit

00:50:03.215 --> 00:50:05.075

about what he changed and

00:50:05.155 --> 00:50:06.235

why that led to more

00:50:06.275 --> 00:50:08.236

baptisms and maybe what the

00:50:08.316 --> 00:50:09.736

other missionaries, you know,

00:50:09.776 --> 00:50:10.916

what their reactions were

00:50:10.956 --> 00:50:13.717

to these new policies and some of that?

00:50:15.087 --> 00:50:15.987

Yes, absolutely.

00:50:16.128 --> 00:50:18.669

So very quickly,

00:50:19.409 --> 00:50:20.429

you could understand like

00:50:20.490 --> 00:50:21.310

if we had a meeting with

00:50:21.330 --> 00:50:22.330

him and we met with him a

00:50:22.490 --> 00:50:24.231

lot in the beginning, as you can imagine,

00:50:25.032 --> 00:50:26.252

he had thought about this

00:50:26.272 --> 00:50:27.833

stuff like all night and he

00:50:28.673 --> 00:50:30.234

used his business acumen to

00:50:30.274 --> 00:50:30.874

figure it out.

00:50:31.735 --> 00:50:32.655

And one of the first things

00:50:32.715 --> 00:50:35.136

he did was just a simple like, okay,

00:50:35.176 --> 00:50:36.017

when we have more

00:50:38.878 --> 00:50:40.299

discussions with members,

00:50:40.919 --> 00:50:42.340

those people typically have

00:50:42.380 --> 00:50:45.442

a higher likelihood of getting baptized.

00:50:45.902 --> 00:50:46.963

So that was just like a low

00:50:46.983 --> 00:50:48.084

hanging fruit that he said

00:50:48.144 --> 00:50:51.606

that we could try to implement, right?

00:50:52.266 --> 00:50:53.307

So you're talking about

00:50:54.147 --> 00:50:55.929

missionaries teaching

00:50:55.989 --> 00:50:58.390

somebody when there's a member present,

00:50:58.430 --> 00:50:59.591

like the member invites

00:50:59.711 --> 00:51:01.732

someone and the missionaries teach them.

00:51:01.852 --> 00:51:03.013

Yeah, that makes total sense.

00:51:03.403 --> 00:51:04.984

yeah it's basically like you

00:51:05.004 --> 00:51:06.265

got a referral right there

00:51:06.325 --> 00:51:08.226

and you have someone um

00:51:08.306 --> 00:51:09.707

it's a lot less yeah it's

00:51:09.747 --> 00:51:11.048

just a better situation for

00:51:11.128 --> 00:51:12.469

everyone and those people

00:51:12.529 --> 00:51:13.530

had a like more higher

00:51:13.550 --> 00:51:15.071

likelihood of getting

00:51:15.131 --> 00:51:17.193

baptized so he's i think

00:51:17.233 --> 00:51:18.113

that was one of the first

00:51:18.173 --> 00:51:21.476

things he started and then

00:51:21.576 --> 00:51:22.917

the next number he really

00:51:23.157 --> 00:51:25.158

we focused on was so we

00:51:25.198 --> 00:51:27.140

implemented that and he had

00:51:27.180 --> 00:51:30.102

us go talk to the mission a lot and

00:51:32.149 --> 00:51:32.789

as an assistant,

00:51:32.829 --> 00:51:33.889

we're talking to the zone

00:51:33.909 --> 00:51:34.690

leaders every week,

00:51:34.730 --> 00:51:35.650

going through numbers.

00:51:35.970 --> 00:51:37.011

They get all their numbers

00:51:37.111 --> 00:51:38.572

from the district leaders.

00:51:38.612 --> 00:51:39.632

So the numbers are like,

00:51:39.672 --> 00:51:41.253

how many discussions did you have?

00:51:41.753 --> 00:51:43.334

How many new investigators

00:51:43.374 --> 00:51:44.275

did your district have?

00:51:44.695 --> 00:51:46.296

How many lessons did you

00:51:46.316 --> 00:51:47.456

teach with a member present?

00:51:47.656 --> 00:51:49.237

How many baptisms do you have?

00:51:49.277 --> 00:51:50.558

How many baptismal

00:51:50.638 --> 00:51:51.618

invitations do you have?

00:51:52.178 --> 00:51:53.659

And those nights, I mean,

00:51:53.759 --> 00:51:54.700

we would be up till,

00:51:55.640 --> 00:51:56.201

midnight,

00:51:56.281 --> 00:51:58.102

two AM inputting all this data

00:51:58.562 --> 00:51:59.803

because he cared about the

00:51:59.843 --> 00:52:03.285

data big time to see how we did.

00:52:03.626 --> 00:52:05.407

And it got to a point where, you know,

00:52:05.427 --> 00:52:06.227

the zone leaders,

00:52:06.327 --> 00:52:07.728

cause he invoked such

00:52:07.788 --> 00:52:10.510

belief and power that we're

00:52:10.530 --> 00:52:11.831

going to be the best mission out there.

00:52:12.452 --> 00:52:13.592

And that rubbed a lot of the

00:52:14.033 --> 00:52:14.913

people the wrong way,

00:52:14.953 --> 00:52:16.094

but they eventually got in

00:52:16.134 --> 00:52:17.335

line because if you didn't,

00:52:19.089 --> 00:52:20.710

he was not that nice to you

00:52:21.410 --> 00:52:23.091

and you wanted to be in his favor.

00:52:23.171 --> 00:52:24.392

Cause he just had that effect.

00:52:24.452 --> 00:52:25.332

I mean, this guy could have started.

00:52:25.352 --> 00:52:27.613

I'm not even kidding.

00:52:28.394 --> 00:52:28.834

Well, this is,

00:52:29.054 --> 00:52:30.295

this is making me think a

00:52:30.335 --> 00:52:31.755

little bit about, um,

00:52:31.795 --> 00:52:33.336

I don't know if you saw, uh,

00:52:33.416 --> 00:52:34.337

Jurassic world.

00:52:34.417 --> 00:52:35.197

It's, you know, I,

00:52:35.417 --> 00:52:36.158

I don't know the fourth or

00:52:36.178 --> 00:52:37.758

fifth Jurassic park where the, you know,

00:52:37.798 --> 00:52:39.159

the guy who owns everything

00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:40.760

comes to visit the park and,

00:52:40.980 --> 00:52:42.540

And the lady running it is

00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:44.141

giving all the numbers like

00:52:44.181 --> 00:52:45.081

our sales have increased

00:52:45.121 --> 00:52:46.461

this percent and we're up, blah, blah,

00:52:46.481 --> 00:52:46.901

blah, blah.

00:52:47.381 --> 00:52:49.742

And he says, are the animals happy?

00:52:50.062 --> 00:52:51.382

And she looks at him and she's like,

00:52:52.322 --> 00:52:52.862

what do you mean?

00:52:53.342 --> 00:52:55.483

He's like, are they enjoying life?

00:52:55.603 --> 00:52:56.283

Are they happy?

00:52:56.323 --> 00:52:57.543

Do you see it in their eyes?

00:52:57.563 --> 00:52:58.883

You know, are they, you know,

00:52:59.444 --> 00:53:00.804

and this is what strikes me

00:53:00.924 --> 00:53:01.624

about the mission.

00:53:01.684 --> 00:53:02.064

It's like,

00:53:02.864 --> 00:53:04.144

you're supposed to be spreading

00:53:04.164 --> 00:53:05.365

the gospel of Jesus Christ.

00:53:05.445 --> 00:53:06.445

This is supposed to be

00:53:07.425 --> 00:53:09.646

the most life altering

00:53:09.686 --> 00:53:11.888

message that you're sharing

00:53:11.928 --> 00:53:13.148

with these people and,

00:53:13.468 --> 00:53:15.249

and it's supposed to change their lives.

00:53:15.790 --> 00:53:16.030

You know,

00:53:16.070 --> 00:53:18.491

they're supposed to come to

00:53:18.531 --> 00:53:22.413

Christ and be transformed and, you know,

00:53:22.793 --> 00:53:24.815

arguably have a better quality of life,

00:53:24.835 --> 00:53:26.175

have better spirituality,

00:53:26.255 --> 00:53:27.576

have better relationships.

00:53:28.236 --> 00:53:28.797

And it's like,

00:53:28.957 --> 00:53:30.618

the numbers are so important.

00:53:31.833 --> 00:53:35.075

Did anybody think to ask,

00:53:35.676 --> 00:53:36.876

are the missionaries happy?

00:53:37.417 --> 00:53:39.298

Are they enjoying the teaching?

00:53:39.818 --> 00:53:41.379

Are they thriving?

00:53:41.479 --> 00:53:42.820

Are their testimonies growing?

00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:44.181

Are they feeling peaceful?

00:53:45.062 --> 00:53:46.522

I doubt very much that

00:53:46.562 --> 00:53:48.404

anybody asked those sorts

00:53:48.444 --> 00:53:49.745

of questions about like

00:53:49.765 --> 00:53:50.605

your mental health,

00:53:50.665 --> 00:53:51.926

about your spiritual health.

00:53:53.392 --> 00:53:55.773

No, and that's where I can, you know,

00:53:56.314 --> 00:53:58.175

he did have some faults, obviously,

00:53:59.235 --> 00:54:00.776

because there wasn't a ton of that.

00:54:01.437 --> 00:54:03.078

There really wasn't.

00:54:03.778 --> 00:54:06.880

And he just tried to maximize, you know,

00:54:07.040 --> 00:54:08.581

combinations of missionaries.

00:54:08.641 --> 00:54:10.302

Like every time we would get

00:54:10.342 --> 00:54:12.483

together to go over the transfers,

00:54:12.543 --> 00:54:13.644

like who are we going to move?

00:54:13.704 --> 00:54:14.664

Where are we going to put people?

00:54:14.704 --> 00:54:16.045

And he was really big into that.

00:54:17.910 --> 00:54:20.791

He had us make a little about this big.

00:54:20.871 --> 00:54:22.632

Everyone had a picture, their picture,

00:54:22.892 --> 00:54:24.732

magnet, and their name.

00:54:25.272 --> 00:54:26.113

And we put it up on a

00:54:26.173 --> 00:54:27.513

whiteboard like we were

00:54:27.553 --> 00:54:28.433

calling a football play.

00:54:28.913 --> 00:54:29.834

And in the beginning,

00:54:30.214 --> 00:54:31.814

we really poured over that

00:54:31.834 --> 00:54:33.255

for three to four hours of

00:54:33.335 --> 00:54:35.255

like who we thought could

00:54:35.275 --> 00:54:35.975

be good together.

00:54:36.055 --> 00:54:37.536

This is a weak missionary

00:54:37.996 --> 00:54:39.076

who's struggling with this.

00:54:39.156 --> 00:54:41.517

Who could help him with that?

00:54:42.129 --> 00:54:42.249

and,

00:54:42.389 --> 00:54:44.530

and be really productive and get

00:54:44.570 --> 00:54:45.570

stronger in the face.

00:54:45.590 --> 00:54:47.551

So there was that, but in terms of like,

00:54:47.571 --> 00:54:48.691

how are our missionaries doing?

00:54:49.991 --> 00:54:51.452

He was a little bit more business minded,

00:54:52.532 --> 00:54:54.473

not a tyrant, not a tyrant at all,

00:54:54.953 --> 00:54:56.574

but he was just so good.

00:54:56.994 --> 00:54:58.414

Every, every decision he made,

00:54:58.474 --> 00:55:00.455

I was just like, that is brilliant.

00:55:00.475 --> 00:55:03.596

And he got everyone on board

00:55:03.656 --> 00:55:04.296

pretty quickly.

00:55:04.516 --> 00:55:06.097

And if you were not on board,

00:55:06.397 --> 00:55:07.777

you were kind of judged

00:55:08.617 --> 00:55:10.658

honestly by the missionaries, by me,

00:55:12.084 --> 00:55:15.306

Um, and, and he, he did,

00:55:15.486 --> 00:55:18.527

he did a lot of that and he used me, um,

00:55:18.567 --> 00:55:19.648

to kind of get out there and,

00:55:19.928 --> 00:55:21.508

and maybe be the emotional

00:55:21.548 --> 00:55:22.629

support sometimes.

00:55:23.349 --> 00:55:24.089

Um,

00:55:24.130 --> 00:55:25.790

but really getting all of these

00:55:26.250 --> 00:55:28.071

missionaries to a point

00:55:28.091 --> 00:55:29.772

where they believe they can do anything.

00:55:29.792 --> 00:55:32.133

And I remember we later in the mission,

00:55:32.353 --> 00:55:33.434

we went and we did a

00:55:33.494 --> 00:55:35.214

training where just me and

00:55:35.855 --> 00:55:37.295

it was another assistant at the time.

00:55:37.816 --> 00:55:38.856

And our, he was like,

00:55:38.916 --> 00:55:39.616

I need you guys to go

00:55:39.716 --> 00:55:40.837

everywhere and inspire.

00:55:42.140 --> 00:55:43.601

And we had like a two-hour

00:55:43.641 --> 00:55:44.482

meeting and those meetings

00:55:44.542 --> 00:55:45.522

honestly were insane.

00:55:45.543 --> 00:55:46.603

Like we got to a point where

00:55:46.903 --> 00:55:48.204

we just talked about belief

00:55:48.565 --> 00:55:49.846

and scriptures about belief

00:55:50.006 --> 00:55:51.127

and what is possible if you

00:55:51.167 --> 00:55:52.247

have perfect belief.

00:55:52.928 --> 00:55:54.189

And from those meetings,

00:55:54.229 --> 00:55:56.270

they were like gigged up sales meetings,

00:55:56.590 --> 00:55:56.891

right?

00:55:57.411 --> 00:56:00.033

Like door-to-door sales selling Vivint,

00:56:00.153 --> 00:56:00.393

you know,

00:56:00.413 --> 00:56:02.575

and those guys are just like pumping.

00:56:02.875 --> 00:56:03.716

We're going to sell a

00:56:03.836 --> 00:56:05.637

thousand new alarm systems today.

00:56:05.957 --> 00:56:07.839

But we were using the spirit

00:56:08.119 --> 00:56:10.360

and motivation to be like, all right,

00:56:10.380 --> 00:56:10.661

guys,

00:56:11.401 --> 00:56:13.202

with that what do you think

00:56:13.242 --> 00:56:14.643

is possible and we would

00:56:14.663 --> 00:56:16.043

then have them set goals

00:56:16.483 --> 00:56:18.184

and they set insane goals i

00:56:18.204 --> 00:56:19.705

remember one crazy kid who

00:56:19.725 --> 00:56:21.326

ended up being my uh

00:56:21.386 --> 00:56:22.626

companion assistant they

00:56:22.646 --> 00:56:24.247

were like we can teach two

00:56:24.267 --> 00:56:25.447

hundred lessons this week

00:56:25.988 --> 00:56:27.608

and we were like hell yeah

00:56:27.828 --> 00:56:28.709

hell yeah which is just

00:56:28.749 --> 00:56:30.610

insane yeah that's crazy

00:56:30.650 --> 00:56:32.851

yeah and so like it was it

00:56:32.891 --> 00:56:35.512

was a motivating kind of inspo type thing

00:56:35.892 --> 00:56:37.373

And that was all that was

00:56:37.493 --> 00:56:39.054

all mission president.

00:56:39.154 --> 00:56:40.295

But we believed it.

00:56:40.455 --> 00:56:42.056

We believed it.

00:56:42.736 --> 00:56:43.377

And then it was like,

00:56:43.397 --> 00:56:44.958

how many new investigators can we get?

00:56:45.498 --> 00:56:45.738

You know,

00:56:45.758 --> 00:56:47.620

and that was a big metric was like,

00:56:47.740 --> 00:56:48.780

all right, we need.

00:56:49.161 --> 00:56:50.441

And he I remember he said this,

00:56:50.481 --> 00:56:51.282

the mission president,

00:56:51.722 --> 00:56:53.263

if we have a bigger net and

00:56:53.283 --> 00:56:54.284

we catch more fish.

00:56:55.036 --> 00:56:55.496

you know, we gotta,

00:56:55.516 --> 00:56:56.476

we gotta have a bigger net.

00:56:57.137 --> 00:56:57.977

And that was trying to get

00:56:58.017 --> 00:56:59.137

new investigators because

00:56:59.177 --> 00:57:01.458

we saw if new investigators went up,

00:57:02.058 --> 00:57:03.418

everything else kind of went up.

00:57:03.458 --> 00:57:05.039

And so we focused on several

00:57:05.079 --> 00:57:07.859

transfers of just get new investigators.

00:57:07.900 --> 00:57:08.920

Like you better,

00:57:08.940 --> 00:57:10.720

you better get five to ten this week.

00:57:11.060 --> 00:57:12.041

And if the zone leaders

00:57:12.201 --> 00:57:13.521

talked to me and called

00:57:13.541 --> 00:57:14.721

with disappointing numbers,

00:57:14.841 --> 00:57:18.142

they were like scared and apologetic.

00:57:18.242 --> 00:57:20.303

And then, you know, president calls,

00:57:20.363 --> 00:57:20.703

he's like,

00:57:22.327 --> 00:57:23.849

Tell me the numbers, let's go through it.

00:57:24.551 --> 00:57:25.633

And it was just like a business,

00:57:25.713 --> 00:57:27.116

but it was effective.

00:57:27.977 --> 00:57:28.958

Yeah.

00:57:29.038 --> 00:57:30.178

I just want to clarify for

00:57:30.218 --> 00:57:32.040

those who are not Mormon,

00:57:32.080 --> 00:57:32.980

never been Mormon,

00:57:33.641 --> 00:57:35.222

investigator is the

00:57:35.262 --> 00:57:36.282

designation that

00:57:36.382 --> 00:57:37.823

missionaries give anybody

00:57:37.883 --> 00:57:40.205

who is talking to the missionaries.

00:57:40.625 --> 00:57:42.246

So even if you're not really

00:57:42.286 --> 00:57:43.026

that interested,

00:57:43.847 --> 00:57:44.727

if the missionaries are

00:57:44.767 --> 00:57:45.788

spending time with you,

00:57:45.928 --> 00:57:46.929

you're an investigator.

00:57:47.429 --> 00:57:49.550

And can you talk about sort

00:57:49.590 --> 00:57:52.592

of like the book where

00:57:52.652 --> 00:57:54.473

people's interactions get recorded?

00:57:54.493 --> 00:57:54.974

Because I

00:57:55.474 --> 00:57:56.795

I want people out there to know,

00:57:56.835 --> 00:57:57.455

like if you have a

00:57:57.516 --> 00:57:58.917

conversation with a missionary,

00:57:58.977 --> 00:58:00.398

your name is in a book somewhere.

00:58:00.458 --> 00:58:00.918

Yeah.

00:58:00.938 --> 00:58:02.379

It's getting documented for sure.

00:58:02.759 --> 00:58:04.901

Yeah, absolutely.

00:58:04.921 --> 00:58:05.721

That was another thing was,

00:58:05.761 --> 00:58:06.802

it was record keeping.

00:58:06.982 --> 00:58:08.523

So you knew you could keep

00:58:08.563 --> 00:58:09.484

tabs on everyone.

00:58:09.504 --> 00:58:10.265

So yeah, there,

00:58:10.605 --> 00:58:11.605

I forget what the book was called,

00:58:11.625 --> 00:58:13.627

but yeah, you write down the area book,

00:58:13.707 --> 00:58:14.027

I think.

00:58:14.447 --> 00:58:14.648

Yeah.

00:58:14.908 --> 00:58:15.228

Thank you.

00:58:16.249 --> 00:58:17.850

So if I'm like,

00:58:17.890 --> 00:58:19.811

when I first got called to

00:58:19.851 --> 00:58:21.032

be a trainer with my little

00:58:21.072 --> 00:58:22.994

Brazilian companion,

00:58:23.034 --> 00:58:25.015

we went to a new area that,

00:58:25.735 --> 00:58:25.955

You know,

00:58:26.015 --> 00:58:26.996

normally you have a missionary

00:58:27.016 --> 00:58:27.977

who's been there.

00:58:28.017 --> 00:58:29.939

We had never been to this area.

00:58:30.179 --> 00:58:30.860

I had never been.

00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:32.161

The sister missionaries had

00:58:32.261 --> 00:58:33.242

been in that area and they

00:58:33.282 --> 00:58:35.584

decided to change it to elders.

00:58:35.744 --> 00:58:36.905

So I go in fresh.

00:58:37.025 --> 00:58:37.626

What do you do?

00:58:38.146 --> 00:58:40.108

Well, you open that book up, right?

00:58:40.388 --> 00:58:42.110

And you see everything.

00:58:42.350 --> 00:58:44.472

Everyone who's less active, who they visit,

00:58:44.632 --> 00:58:45.513

everywhere they track,

00:58:45.893 --> 00:58:47.555

every investigator they have talked to,

00:58:47.875 --> 00:58:49.056

you are in that book.

00:58:50.869 --> 00:58:52.450

forever until you say,

00:58:52.590 --> 00:58:53.570

don't ever come back.

00:58:53.650 --> 00:58:54.931

And even then we probably

00:58:54.951 --> 00:58:57.032

avoided that boundary and tried.

00:58:57.112 --> 00:58:58.273

There's many a times where

00:58:58.333 --> 00:58:59.353

people were just like, nah, man,

00:58:59.373 --> 00:58:59.974

I'm not feeling it.

00:58:59.994 --> 00:59:01.014

And we would go back and we

00:59:01.034 --> 00:59:01.935

would go back and we would

00:59:01.955 --> 00:59:03.896

go back because we don't have boundaries.

00:59:04.076 --> 00:59:04.476

And we're,

00:59:05.357 --> 00:59:06.717

we believe that our message is

00:59:06.777 --> 00:59:07.978

more important than their boundary.

00:59:09.171 --> 00:59:09.431

Yeah,

00:59:09.511 --> 00:59:11.872

and I know that when I was a ward

00:59:11.892 --> 00:59:12.513

missionary,

00:59:12.673 --> 00:59:14.353

I was heavily involved with

00:59:16.194 --> 00:59:18.115

helping the missionaries to

00:59:18.155 --> 00:59:19.636

get people to teach.

00:59:20.376 --> 00:59:21.737

And I know one of the things

00:59:21.777 --> 00:59:23.598

that they would do is they

00:59:23.618 --> 00:59:28.040

would even go knock on doors and say, oh,

00:59:28.060 --> 00:59:29.961

we're looking for so-and-so

00:59:29.981 --> 00:59:31.702

that we taught a few years ago.

00:59:32.522 --> 00:59:33.663

do they still live here?

00:59:33.743 --> 00:59:35.543

And it would be like some, you know,

00:59:35.684 --> 00:59:37.164

new person who had never

00:59:37.224 --> 00:59:38.525

seen the missionaries before or whatever.

00:59:38.705 --> 00:59:38.985

Oh no,

00:59:39.025 --> 00:59:40.446

that person like moved out a few

00:59:40.486 --> 00:59:41.386

years ago or whatever.

00:59:42.187 --> 00:59:43.887

Well, they would use that as an in.

00:59:44.107 --> 00:59:45.128

Well, oh, okay.

00:59:45.168 --> 00:59:46.128

Well, so-and-so moved away.

00:59:46.168 --> 00:59:47.849

Well, would you be interested in hearing?

00:59:48.309 --> 00:59:50.650

So it's not, it's not even just your name,

00:59:50.750 --> 00:59:51.671

but if the missionaries

00:59:51.711 --> 00:59:52.851

have ever visited someone

00:59:52.991 --> 00:59:54.172

at your address who was

00:59:54.272 --> 00:59:55.192

interested in the church,

00:59:55.212 --> 00:59:55.773

they're going to keep

00:59:55.793 --> 00:59:57.033

coming back to that address

00:59:57.053 --> 00:59:57.934

because it's in the book.

00:59:58.694 --> 01:00:00.895

as a potential place to find

01:00:00.995 --> 01:00:01.775

someone to teach.

01:00:02.456 --> 01:00:07.037

So yes, yeah, yeah, it's it blows my mind,

01:00:07.097 --> 01:00:09.078

because I know my name is in the book,

01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:11.479

you know, being an ex member,

01:00:11.919 --> 01:00:14.200

and I'm sure that they have

01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:15.341

notes about the last time

01:00:15.361 --> 01:00:16.421

they were here when I

01:00:16.481 --> 01:00:17.842

talked to them about the bite model.

01:00:19.903 --> 01:00:21.484

And I asked them if they were safe.

01:00:22.004 --> 01:00:24.066

I asked them if they felt safe to leave.

01:00:24.206 --> 01:00:26.288

I asked them if they had enough to eat,

01:00:26.828 --> 01:00:28.910

you know, if they were feeling, you know,

01:00:29.130 --> 01:00:30.611

validated and safe and all that.

01:00:30.651 --> 01:00:32.452

It's just a conversation about like,

01:00:32.512 --> 01:00:33.553

how are you doing?

01:00:33.673 --> 01:00:34.454

And that's what I do with

01:00:34.514 --> 01:00:35.434

missionaries now when they

01:00:35.474 --> 01:00:37.436

come around is I ask them

01:00:37.516 --> 01:00:38.457

how they're doing.

01:00:39.017 --> 01:00:40.518

Do you need anything to eat or drink?

01:00:40.918 --> 01:00:41.179

You know,

01:00:42.212 --> 01:00:43.813

if you need a safe place to

01:00:43.913 --> 01:00:46.055

vent or you're having a hard time,

01:00:46.495 --> 01:00:47.796

this is the place for you to come.

01:00:47.957 --> 01:00:48.637

I'm here for you.

01:00:49.618 --> 01:00:51.459

So I wonder if there is a

01:00:51.519 --> 01:00:54.021

book and then a book, like,

01:00:54.061 --> 01:00:56.143

do they also keep track of places that,

01:00:56.303 --> 01:00:58.425

that might be like a safe

01:00:58.465 --> 01:00:59.906

place for missionaries who

01:00:59.946 --> 01:01:00.547

are struggling?

01:01:00.687 --> 01:01:01.187

I wonder.

01:01:02.308 --> 01:01:03.469

No, no, we didn't,

01:01:03.509 --> 01:01:04.490

we didn't have any of that.

01:01:04.970 --> 01:01:06.651

You kind of knew what

01:01:06.771 --> 01:01:11.255

members were cool that, you know, they'd,

01:01:12.035 --> 01:01:14.356

drive you places or, you know,

01:01:14.596 --> 01:01:16.456

they'd have you over to watch a movie.

01:01:16.857 --> 01:01:19.137

You knew who those people were, you know?

01:01:19.157 --> 01:01:21.058

Yeah, for sure.

01:01:22.158 --> 01:01:23.659

But yeah,

01:01:23.759 --> 01:01:26.600

I'm hoping that what you provided

01:01:26.640 --> 01:01:28.160

to them is used more.

01:01:28.200 --> 01:01:28.801

Did you get any?

01:01:28.841 --> 01:01:29.701

Have you had any takers?

01:01:31.174 --> 01:01:31.494

No.

01:01:31.615 --> 01:01:34.457

I mean, even when I was in the church,

01:01:35.258 --> 01:01:36.559

I wanted to make it known

01:01:37.400 --> 01:01:39.061

that my house was a safe space.

01:01:40.302 --> 01:01:42.524

I told them every time they

01:01:42.564 --> 01:01:44.046

came by my house, I was like,

01:01:44.686 --> 01:01:47.429

if you are ever in need of anything,

01:01:47.489 --> 01:01:48.029

come here.

01:01:48.189 --> 01:01:49.431

I will feed you anytime,

01:01:50.011 --> 01:01:51.633

even if you just need to

01:01:51.653 --> 01:01:53.614

take a lunch to go or something like that,

01:01:53.634 --> 01:01:54.395

like if you don't have

01:01:54.435 --> 01:01:56.016

enough to eat that day or whatever.

01:01:57.117 --> 01:01:58.378

Or if you need to write down

01:01:58.418 --> 01:02:00.300

that you gave a lesson or something,

01:02:00.340 --> 01:02:00.940

come to me.

01:02:01.321 --> 01:02:02.442

I'm happy to be here for

01:02:02.482 --> 01:02:03.302

whatever you need.

01:02:03.863 --> 01:02:06.685

And I think that because my

01:02:07.225 --> 01:02:10.188

former spouse was an inactive member,

01:02:10.668 --> 01:02:12.429

he joined the church after

01:02:12.449 --> 01:02:14.931

we'd been married for about a year or so.

01:02:15.532 --> 01:02:16.593

And then he was only active

01:02:16.613 --> 01:02:17.433

for a few months.

01:02:18.014 --> 01:02:19.275

And so the missionaries were

01:02:19.375 --> 01:02:20.155

always coming around

01:02:20.175 --> 01:02:20.876

because we went through

01:02:20.896 --> 01:02:22.097

like probably three or four

01:02:22.137 --> 01:02:23.358

sets of missionaries before

01:02:23.398 --> 01:02:24.319

he got baptized.

01:02:24.979 --> 01:02:26.760

And then once he got baptized,

01:02:28.040 --> 01:02:30.181

they wanted to make sure he

01:02:30.221 --> 01:02:30.881

stayed active.

01:02:30.921 --> 01:02:32.821

So we had missionaries over all the time.

01:02:32.861 --> 01:02:34.002

I was always signing up to

01:02:34.022 --> 01:02:34.882

have missionaries over.

01:02:35.562 --> 01:02:36.743

And my oldest daughter,

01:02:39.383 --> 01:02:40.644

she took it very seriously

01:02:40.664 --> 01:02:42.244

to share the gospel with her friends.

01:02:42.824 --> 01:02:43.905

And she had several of her

01:02:43.925 --> 01:02:44.865

friends get baptized.

01:02:44.885 --> 01:02:46.165

So we always had

01:02:46.205 --> 01:02:47.386

missionaries in our house.

01:02:47.466 --> 01:02:49.786

We were always feeding the missionaries.

01:02:50.287 --> 01:02:51.247

I felt terrible.

01:02:51.887 --> 01:02:53.688

if I wasn't on the calendar every month,

01:02:53.908 --> 01:02:54.088

you know,

01:02:54.128 --> 01:02:55.409

I try to make sure I was feeding

01:02:55.429 --> 01:02:56.450

the missionaries every month.

01:02:57.590 --> 01:03:00.332

But I also like really felt

01:03:00.392 --> 01:03:02.213

compassion for what they

01:03:02.233 --> 01:03:03.133

were going through and what

01:03:03.153 --> 01:03:03.814

they were doing.

01:03:03.934 --> 01:03:05.835

And I wanted to, you know,

01:03:05.875 --> 01:03:07.456

I wanted to be that safe person.

01:03:07.636 --> 01:03:09.657

I would, I would always ask them like, Hey,

01:03:09.677 --> 01:03:10.017

can I,

01:03:10.697 --> 01:03:13.299

can I text a picture to your mom or can I,

01:03:13.459 --> 01:03:13.680

you know,

01:03:13.720 --> 01:03:15.321

can I let your mom know how you're doing?

01:03:15.361 --> 01:03:16.222

Cause this was, you know,

01:03:16.262 --> 01:03:17.022

back before they were

01:03:17.042 --> 01:03:17.983

allowed to contact their

01:03:18.003 --> 01:03:19.444

parents very often or whatever.

01:03:20.125 --> 01:03:22.226

I was like, come here on the holidays,

01:03:22.266 --> 01:03:23.387

come here on your birthday.

01:03:23.467 --> 01:03:23.747

You know,

01:03:23.807 --> 01:03:25.389

just wanted to make sure that I did that.

01:03:25.489 --> 01:03:27.370

And I, and I still feel that way,

01:03:28.051 --> 01:03:28.891

but I know that there are

01:03:28.911 --> 01:03:30.012

probably some missionaries

01:03:30.052 --> 01:03:31.794

who won't come here because of,

01:03:32.314 --> 01:03:33.535

because I'm an ex member

01:03:33.695 --> 01:03:34.696

and because of what's in the book,

01:03:34.756 --> 01:03:36.777

like she's not coming back guys.

01:03:39.139 --> 01:03:40.000

How does, um,

01:03:41.028 --> 01:03:42.009

How does your daughter feel

01:03:42.069 --> 01:03:44.050

now that she's out about

01:03:44.110 --> 01:03:46.012

converting her friends?

01:03:46.953 --> 01:03:48.153

We actually did it.

01:03:48.334 --> 01:03:49.014

I had her on.

01:03:49.034 --> 01:03:50.235

We did a long episode where

01:03:50.255 --> 01:03:51.416

we talked about her mission.

01:03:51.476 --> 01:03:55.879

And what she said was she

01:03:55.919 --> 01:03:58.081

thinks that her friends saw

01:03:58.241 --> 01:04:01.023

our family as something

01:04:01.043 --> 01:04:02.824

that a lot of them didn't have.

01:04:02.985 --> 01:04:03.565

It was like,

01:04:03.745 --> 01:04:05.526

even though dad wasn't coming to church

01:04:06.447 --> 01:04:08.729

We had dinner together almost every night.

01:04:08.989 --> 01:04:09.669

And, you know,

01:04:09.689 --> 01:04:13.432

there was a loving feeling in the home.

01:04:13.672 --> 01:04:15.694

And there was like that I

01:04:15.734 --> 01:04:17.655

cared about her friends very much.

01:04:17.735 --> 01:04:18.015

You know,

01:04:18.135 --> 01:04:19.516

I wanted to know how they were doing.

01:04:19.576 --> 01:04:21.738

I wanted to make sure that they felt,

01:04:22.018 --> 01:04:23.579

you know, safe and welcome in my home.

01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:25.000

I got to know them really well.

01:04:25.481 --> 01:04:27.722

A lot of her friends called

01:04:27.762 --> 01:04:30.104

me Mama and used my last name, you know.

01:04:31.825 --> 01:04:34.388

And so it was very much this

01:04:34.428 --> 01:04:35.089

feeling of like,

01:04:35.569 --> 01:04:36.590

I think it was more just

01:04:36.630 --> 01:04:37.731

the sense of family and the

01:04:37.771 --> 01:04:39.994

sense of belonging for her friends.

01:04:40.294 --> 01:04:43.097

And she was happy that they, you know,

01:04:43.377 --> 01:04:45.520

felt welcomed and loved and accepted.

01:04:46.240 --> 01:04:47.061

And, um,

01:04:47.982 --> 01:04:49.204

It's really interesting,

01:04:50.385 --> 01:04:53.188

just the sort of community

01:04:53.228 --> 01:04:55.571

that my daughter had friends with.

01:04:56.713 --> 01:04:58.495

I think three of her friends

01:04:58.535 --> 01:05:00.277

were baptized while she was

01:05:00.297 --> 01:05:00.898

in high school,

01:05:01.238 --> 01:05:02.720

which is more than a lot of

01:05:02.780 --> 01:05:04.702

missionaries get on their missions.

01:05:04.722 --> 01:05:05.964

That is crazy.

01:05:06.664 --> 01:05:10.428

And one of them is one of

01:05:10.448 --> 01:05:12.029

them came out as gay and is

01:05:12.209 --> 01:05:13.110

no longer in the church.

01:05:13.650 --> 01:05:14.391

One of them came out as

01:05:14.451 --> 01:05:16.513

trans and is no longer in the church.

01:05:17.033 --> 01:05:19.696

And another one of them is

01:05:19.756 --> 01:05:22.058

now non-binary and is not in the church.

01:05:22.678 --> 01:05:24.500

But I just think about, you know,

01:05:24.560 --> 01:05:26.762

I think about the, you know,

01:05:26.842 --> 01:05:28.703

how beautiful it was to have.

01:05:29.504 --> 01:05:30.824

such a strong connection and

01:05:30.844 --> 01:05:31.865

to be there for those kids

01:05:31.905 --> 01:05:33.785

at times when they maybe

01:05:33.825 --> 01:05:34.866

didn't have other adults

01:05:34.886 --> 01:05:36.586

that cared that much about them,

01:05:36.646 --> 01:05:36.926

you know?

01:05:36.966 --> 01:05:37.547

Oh yeah.

01:05:37.987 --> 01:05:38.727

So anyway.

01:05:39.287 --> 01:05:39.507

Yeah.

01:05:39.787 --> 01:05:40.928

I have no doubt you had so

01:05:40.968 --> 01:05:42.668

much empathy and I'm sure

01:05:42.688 --> 01:05:44.609

they appreciated that so much.

01:05:44.689 --> 01:05:46.169

So well done.

01:05:46.209 --> 01:05:48.570

That's more than I, I did in high school.

01:05:48.710 --> 01:05:49.070

Golly,

01:05:49.090 --> 01:05:51.911

I was just trying to be cool and

01:05:51.971 --> 01:05:53.831

play football, drive a car around.

01:05:54.352 --> 01:05:54.972

I did not care.

01:05:55.252 --> 01:05:56.392

I really didn't.

01:05:56.632 --> 01:05:58.493

Yeah.

01:05:58.533 --> 01:05:58.693

Yeah.

01:05:59.605 --> 01:06:01.027

Anyway, we were, okay.

01:06:01.087 --> 01:06:02.929

So we were talking about, yeah,

01:06:03.049 --> 01:06:04.451

I'm in my head.

01:06:04.491 --> 01:06:06.953

This sounded a lot better.

01:06:07.074 --> 01:06:08.555

I don't know if it's interesting for,

01:06:09.176 --> 01:06:10.257

for people to see.

01:06:10.357 --> 01:06:10.938

Oh, I'm sure.

01:06:11.979 --> 01:06:14.602

I'm sure it is like, like what, you know,

01:06:14.642 --> 01:06:15.723

people see the missionaries

01:06:15.763 --> 01:06:16.624

out on the street and,

01:06:18.446 --> 01:06:18.927

And of course,

01:06:18.967 --> 01:06:20.989

it's kind of like the Mormon icon, right?

01:06:21.089 --> 01:06:22.971

They are the billboard for the church.

01:06:23.031 --> 01:06:24.252

So you see the classic

01:06:24.272 --> 01:06:25.394

short-sleeved white shirt,

01:06:25.414 --> 01:06:27.996

the classic black name tag, you know,

01:06:28.077 --> 01:06:29.018

tie and everything,

01:06:29.558 --> 01:06:30.619

and you think Mormons.

01:06:31.340 --> 01:06:33.402

And it's a clean, wholesome image.

01:06:33.622 --> 01:06:35.505

And I think a lot of people

01:06:36.225 --> 01:06:38.187

see that as a billboard and

01:06:38.247 --> 01:06:39.389

don't consider the fact

01:06:39.409 --> 01:06:40.390

that they're real people

01:06:42.057 --> 01:06:43.258

They're real young men and

01:06:43.298 --> 01:06:45.599

young women who are really

01:06:45.659 --> 01:06:47.039

trying hard to do their

01:06:47.059 --> 01:06:48.880

best to do what is expected

01:06:48.920 --> 01:06:52.541

of them and to check the

01:06:52.561 --> 01:06:53.562

boxes that make them

01:06:53.602 --> 01:06:55.262

acceptable in their family system.

01:06:55.923 --> 01:06:57.643

And a lot of them have made

01:06:57.763 --> 01:07:01.045

really big sacrifices to be out there

01:07:02.106 --> 01:07:02.526

you know,

01:07:02.967 --> 01:07:04.607

doing this mission for the church,

01:07:05.348 --> 01:07:07.349

it's totally a social expectation,

01:07:07.389 --> 01:07:08.570

societal expectation.

01:07:08.610 --> 01:07:09.910

So I want people to

01:07:09.970 --> 01:07:11.191

understand more what that

01:07:11.251 --> 01:07:12.312

experience is like for the

01:07:12.412 --> 01:07:14.053

actual people who are going through it.

01:07:14.153 --> 01:07:16.694

And I think it does resonate with people.

01:07:16.734 --> 01:07:17.855

And I hope also,

01:07:18.595 --> 01:07:19.916

that it creates a larger

01:07:19.976 --> 01:07:21.216

conversation around like,

01:07:21.236 --> 01:07:22.797

when you see these guys on the street,

01:07:23.017 --> 01:07:23.237

you know,

01:07:23.337 --> 01:07:24.858

don't slam the door in their face.

01:07:25.038 --> 01:07:25.358

You know,

01:07:26.058 --> 01:07:27.859

you may not want to talk with

01:07:27.899 --> 01:07:29.580

them about the gospel,

01:07:30.440 --> 01:07:31.901

but just ask them if they're okay,

01:07:32.381 --> 01:07:34.022

you know, provide a meal for them,

01:07:34.622 --> 01:07:35.902

give them a bottle of beer,

01:07:35.922 --> 01:07:37.543

be kind to them because they,

01:07:38.643 --> 01:07:39.324

a lot of them,

01:07:40.573 --> 01:07:43.314

didn't really choose to be there.

01:07:43.794 --> 01:07:45.175

There are a lot of

01:07:45.235 --> 01:07:47.196

missionaries who are those

01:07:47.256 --> 01:07:48.616

religious zealots who will

01:07:48.656 --> 01:07:51.057

try to Bible bash with you and whatever,

01:07:51.917 --> 01:07:53.618

but they're just human

01:07:53.658 --> 01:07:54.819

beings who have been

01:07:54.959 --> 01:08:00.061

indoctrinated and brainwashed in the MTC,

01:08:00.381 --> 01:08:03.542

and they don't really understand the

01:08:04.404 --> 01:08:05.465

that it's not a good look.

01:08:05.585 --> 01:08:07.006

They don't really understand

01:08:07.086 --> 01:08:08.147

that the message is sort of

01:08:08.207 --> 01:08:09.308

bigoted and harmful.

01:08:09.448 --> 01:08:11.710

They really think that they

01:08:11.870 --> 01:08:13.411

are saving souls out there.

01:08:14.012 --> 01:08:14.932

So anyway,

01:08:15.133 --> 01:08:16.834

I just hope that there's more compassion.

01:08:17.074 --> 01:08:17.655

I hope there's more

01:08:17.695 --> 01:08:19.136

compassionate treatment of

01:08:19.316 --> 01:08:20.097

LDS missionaries,

01:08:20.117 --> 01:08:21.237

because it always breaks my

01:08:21.277 --> 01:08:25.161

heart when I see a harmful

01:08:25.261 --> 01:08:27.242

argumentative interaction

01:08:27.302 --> 01:08:30.085

between LDS missionaries and someone.

01:08:30.745 --> 01:08:32.426

I saw a TikTok just this morning

01:08:33.447 --> 01:08:35.489

um where a black lady

01:08:35.609 --> 01:08:36.470

invited these three

01:08:36.510 --> 01:08:38.191

missionaries into her house

01:08:38.331 --> 01:08:39.572

and basically yelled at

01:08:39.612 --> 01:08:42.154

them because of the bigoted

01:08:42.174 --> 01:08:43.795

teachings of the church and

01:08:43.835 --> 01:08:45.416

this poor elder was saying

01:08:45.697 --> 01:08:46.857

no you know we just we just

01:08:46.897 --> 01:08:47.798

want to share a message

01:08:47.818 --> 01:08:49.680

with you you know and she's

01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:51.361

and she you know fought

01:08:51.381 --> 01:08:52.502

back and she yelled back

01:08:52.542 --> 01:08:54.043

and she was like but you're

01:08:54.063 --> 01:08:54.964

not going to tell me about

01:08:55.004 --> 01:08:55.784

the priesthood ban and

01:08:55.804 --> 01:08:56.485

you're not going to tell me

01:08:56.505 --> 01:08:57.085

this and you're not going

01:08:57.105 --> 01:08:58.626

to tell me that and she's right

01:08:59.747 --> 01:09:00.628

Don't get me wrong.

01:09:00.648 --> 01:09:01.409

She's right.

01:09:03.171 --> 01:09:04.173

But I just think about that

01:09:04.213 --> 01:09:06.836

experience for those poor young guys.

01:09:07.096 --> 01:09:09.579

And they're already going

01:09:09.599 --> 01:09:11.721

through something that's so hard.

01:09:12.362 --> 01:09:13.183

So I just hope this

01:09:13.263 --> 01:09:15.686

conversation helps those interactions.

01:09:15.706 --> 01:09:15.846

Yeah.

01:09:16.126 --> 01:09:17.267

That's a good point.

01:09:17.447 --> 01:09:19.570

And, you know, I get that lady.

01:09:20.530 --> 01:09:21.992

When I see missionaries in the past,

01:09:22.232 --> 01:09:23.093

it's honestly,

01:09:24.154 --> 01:09:26.096

it triggers and it makes me angry.

01:09:26.396 --> 01:09:28.438

And I want to scream at them

01:09:28.518 --> 01:09:29.759

like this lady has.

01:09:29.919 --> 01:09:32.742

But you're being the more

01:09:32.782 --> 01:09:33.943

compassionate person here.

01:09:34.243 --> 01:09:35.645

And I still have some things

01:09:36.025 --> 01:09:37.166

I have to work on because a

01:09:37.206 --> 01:09:37.867

lot of that is.

01:09:39.162 --> 01:09:40.443

you're so angry that these

01:09:40.483 --> 01:09:42.044

people are still a part of

01:09:42.064 --> 01:09:43.566

that world that you have

01:09:43.606 --> 01:09:45.607

worked so hard to get away from.

01:09:46.288 --> 01:09:49.290

And it's some projection too

01:09:49.310 --> 01:09:51.252

that you fell for it a little bit,

01:09:51.332 --> 01:09:52.493

maybe a little guilt trip too.

01:09:52.573 --> 01:09:54.695

But to that lady, to myself,

01:09:55.055 --> 01:09:56.897

it's not their fault.

01:09:57.397 --> 01:09:59.159

We need to be punching at the leadership,

01:09:59.219 --> 01:10:00.420

not these poor missionaries.

01:10:01.060 --> 01:10:01.440

you know,

01:10:02.040 --> 01:10:04.601

and that's where I think punching

01:10:04.661 --> 01:10:06.462

up is always a good idea.

01:10:06.562 --> 01:10:07.042

But you're right,

01:10:07.162 --> 01:10:08.102

I'm going to have a lot

01:10:08.142 --> 01:10:10.483

more compassion for the

01:10:10.543 --> 01:10:11.623

little guys in ties,

01:10:11.983 --> 01:10:14.364

and just make sure that they're okay.

01:10:15.104 --> 01:10:17.065

And because as we said before, like,

01:10:17.085 --> 01:10:17.985

there's a lot more mental

01:10:18.025 --> 01:10:19.446

health stuff we're aware of now.

01:10:19.566 --> 01:10:21.346

And, and these missions,

01:10:21.446 --> 01:10:22.967

I'm telling everyone, if you don't know,

01:10:23.687 --> 01:10:24.307

they are

01:10:25.545 --> 01:10:26.186

daunting.

01:10:26.366 --> 01:10:27.927

They are traumatizing.

01:10:28.127 --> 01:10:31.709

They are so hard of just

01:10:31.769 --> 01:10:34.071

constantly trying to feel worthy enough.

01:10:34.631 --> 01:10:35.992

And while doing some very

01:10:36.452 --> 01:10:37.553

uncomfortable things and

01:10:37.593 --> 01:10:38.614

getting out of your comfort

01:10:38.634 --> 01:10:39.875

zone and talking to people

01:10:40.535 --> 01:10:41.896

and having to have the

01:10:41.976 --> 01:10:43.097

space to know that you're

01:10:43.197 --> 01:10:46.079

trying to save them for eternity,

01:10:46.439 --> 01:10:49.441

that is a big responsibility to put on an

01:10:56.306 --> 01:10:58.269

And you could be the reason

01:10:58.389 --> 01:10:59.510

that they don't get to the

01:10:59.550 --> 01:11:00.672

highest degree of heaven.

01:11:03.355 --> 01:11:04.857

No one should have to think

01:11:04.897 --> 01:11:05.558

that or do that,

01:11:05.618 --> 01:11:06.840

let alone when you're away

01:11:06.860 --> 01:11:07.480

from your family,

01:11:07.621 --> 01:11:10.985

isolated for two years at that age.

01:11:12.584 --> 01:11:13.844

yeah and can you talk a

01:11:13.884 --> 01:11:14.725

little bit about the

01:11:14.765 --> 01:11:18.146

concept that if you are not

01:11:18.206 --> 01:11:20.327

perfectly obedient then

01:11:20.547 --> 01:11:22.007

that's going to be damaging

01:11:22.067 --> 01:11:23.268

for people out there in the

01:11:23.308 --> 01:11:24.588

field i mean you touched on

01:11:24.628 --> 01:11:25.528

it just a little bit just

01:11:25.589 --> 01:11:27.229

now but i i don't think

01:11:27.269 --> 01:11:28.710

people understand that that

01:11:28.750 --> 01:11:29.790

is an expectation like

01:11:29.850 --> 01:11:31.290

perfect obedience is an

01:11:31.350 --> 01:11:32.531

expectation literally

01:11:33.491 --> 01:11:35.553

yes you follow every single

01:11:35.993 --> 01:11:37.394

rule and if you don't

01:11:37.994 --> 01:11:38.635

that's why you're not

01:11:38.675 --> 01:11:40.076

baptizing that's why you're

01:11:40.096 --> 01:11:41.637

not happy that's why you're

01:11:41.677 --> 01:11:44.719

struggling so that is so

01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:45.920

toxic so you're you're

01:11:45.960 --> 01:11:47.902

constantly like maybe you

01:11:48.002 --> 01:11:49.263

are that you're you're

01:11:49.303 --> 01:11:50.504

doing your your absolute

01:11:50.524 --> 01:11:51.124

best you're doing

01:11:51.304 --> 01:11:52.425

everything right and yet

01:11:52.766 --> 01:11:54.227

you haven't found success

01:11:54.727 --> 01:11:55.828

and you're getting discouraged

01:11:57.223 --> 01:11:58.425

Where do you think that's

01:11:58.465 --> 01:11:59.606

going to lead you to think

01:11:59.946 --> 01:12:00.847

that it's my fault?

01:12:01.308 --> 01:12:02.049

This is on me.

01:12:02.990 --> 01:12:04.151

I'm clearly doing something

01:12:04.251 --> 01:12:05.893

wrong that God doesn't like,

01:12:05.933 --> 01:12:07.295

or I'm not being obedient enough.

01:12:07.315 --> 01:12:07.996

So what do you do?

01:12:08.056 --> 01:12:08.857

You push harder.

01:12:09.728 --> 01:12:11.370

You try to get more strict

01:12:11.490 --> 01:12:12.451

even with the already

01:12:12.511 --> 01:12:14.092

insanely strict rules.

01:12:14.152 --> 01:12:16.614

And it all relates to obedience.

01:12:17.015 --> 01:12:18.516

And obedience equals love.

01:12:19.077 --> 01:12:21.299

And obedience equals blessings.

01:12:21.939 --> 01:12:23.681

And if you're not getting those,

01:12:24.462 --> 01:12:25.743

then something's wrong with you.

01:12:26.404 --> 01:12:27.885

Not what's wrong with this

01:12:27.945 --> 01:12:29.867

system or this setup.

01:12:30.267 --> 01:12:31.348

There's something wrong with you.

01:12:32.069 --> 01:12:34.071

And you struggle with that every day.

01:12:35.704 --> 01:12:37.187

Yeah, and isn't the saying,

01:12:37.768 --> 01:12:39.651

obedience brings blessings,

01:12:39.752 --> 01:12:41.014

perfect obedience brings

01:12:41.054 --> 01:12:42.537

miracles or something like that?

01:12:43.438 --> 01:12:45.102

Yeah, and to a point where...

01:12:46.290 --> 01:12:47.370

I even did it with our

01:12:47.390 --> 01:12:48.431

missionaries teaching like

01:12:48.491 --> 01:12:50.251

if we truly had perfect

01:12:50.431 --> 01:12:51.652

obedience and belief,

01:12:51.692 --> 01:12:52.912

we could literally move

01:12:52.952 --> 01:12:53.632

mountains because that's

01:12:53.652 --> 01:12:54.492

what the scripture says.

01:12:54.532 --> 01:12:56.833

And so that's just an

01:12:56.973 --> 01:12:58.254

unattainable fantasy.

01:12:58.694 --> 01:13:00.554

And but as a missionary,

01:13:00.574 --> 01:13:02.215

you're in it and everyone's

01:13:02.275 --> 01:13:03.535

being spiritual and you're

01:13:03.555 --> 01:13:05.035

all trying to do this together.

01:13:05.075 --> 01:13:06.836

And so you're trying to one up everything.

01:13:08.738 --> 01:13:09.999

And then obviously with the

01:13:10.039 --> 01:13:10.980

external validation,

01:13:11.040 --> 01:13:11.981

those missionaries that are

01:13:12.021 --> 01:13:13.883

doing well get praised and

01:13:13.904 --> 01:13:16.166

they get recognized.

01:13:16.646 --> 01:13:17.447

And you could be working

01:13:17.487 --> 01:13:20.030

twice as hard and they just got lucky.

01:13:20.410 --> 01:13:20.671

But

01:13:21.463 --> 01:13:22.904

they're going to get the benefit,

01:13:22.964 --> 01:13:24.284

they're going to get to write, you know,

01:13:24.304 --> 01:13:24.904

and they're preaching my

01:13:24.924 --> 01:13:27.125

gospel that they baptize this person or,

01:13:27.706 --> 01:13:28.906

or whatever, when really,

01:13:29.466 --> 01:13:30.567

that that shouldn't be what

01:13:30.627 --> 01:13:32.708

it what it's about.

01:13:32.748 --> 01:13:33.288

So yeah,

01:13:33.308 --> 01:13:35.169

the meritocracy of the mission is real.

01:13:36.509 --> 01:13:37.329

At least for us,

01:13:38.290 --> 01:13:39.350

because our mission

01:13:39.390 --> 01:13:40.651

president wanted results.

01:13:41.131 --> 01:13:43.052

He wanted to convert more people.

01:13:43.132 --> 01:13:44.452

And he really believed he

01:13:44.492 --> 01:13:45.733

wanted to convert more people.

01:13:45.833 --> 01:13:45.993

But

01:13:46.645 --> 01:13:48.907

he ran that mission into a

01:13:49.007 --> 01:13:50.368

very successful business

01:13:51.169 --> 01:13:53.351

that any consulting firm

01:13:53.371 --> 01:13:54.592

would go in and say, yeah,

01:13:54.712 --> 01:13:55.773

he did all the right things

01:13:56.594 --> 01:13:57.695

to get more results.

01:13:57.815 --> 01:13:59.016

Results being baptisms.

01:13:59.436 --> 01:14:02.078

Results being getting

01:14:02.138 --> 01:14:03.940

recognized from the higher ups that,

01:14:04.040 --> 01:14:04.500

holy cow,

01:14:04.540 --> 01:14:06.442

this mission baptized X amount

01:14:06.482 --> 01:14:07.823

last year and they're on

01:14:07.863 --> 01:14:08.844

pace to hit this year and

01:14:08.884 --> 01:14:10.526

then even more after that.

01:14:12.547 --> 01:14:14.329

It's a lot of pressure and

01:14:16.681 --> 01:14:19.464

It's never enough.

01:14:20.324 --> 01:14:21.005

It's never enough.

01:14:21.525 --> 01:14:22.586

You can always work harder.

01:14:22.846 --> 01:14:23.867

You can always pray harder.

01:14:23.927 --> 01:14:24.928

You can always study more.

01:14:24.968 --> 01:14:26.149

You can always track more.

01:14:26.209 --> 01:14:27.670

You can always have more faith.

01:14:28.091 --> 01:14:29.632

And every second that you

01:14:29.672 --> 01:14:30.993

knock on that door, like, oh,

01:14:31.013 --> 01:14:33.035

if they said no, you're left thinking,

01:14:33.075 --> 01:14:34.476

well, did I not have enough faith?

01:14:35.416 --> 01:14:38.499

And that can drain you.

01:14:40.147 --> 01:14:41.108

Yeah, totally.

01:14:41.168 --> 01:14:43.769

And it strikes me that obviously, you know,

01:14:43.809 --> 01:14:44.970

metrics are important.

01:14:45.290 --> 01:14:47.172

You know, measuring results are important.

01:14:47.672 --> 01:14:48.652

But when there's a hyper

01:14:48.692 --> 01:14:50.594

focus on the number and the

01:14:50.634 --> 01:14:52.535

percentages and all of that,

01:14:52.675 --> 01:14:55.017

the human element gets left behind.

01:14:55.237 --> 01:14:56.397

There are people suffer.

01:14:56.417 --> 01:14:57.478

They fall through the cracks

01:14:57.518 --> 01:15:00.040

when we just focus on numbers only.

01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:01.401

Yeah, absolutely.

01:15:01.421 --> 01:15:06.624

But it's kind of how the church runs it.

01:15:07.778 --> 01:15:10.240

even with tithing, you know, it, to me,

01:15:10.260 --> 01:15:11.541

I realized this morning,

01:15:11.581 --> 01:15:14.023

like that mission and how it was run,

01:15:14.744 --> 01:15:16.665

that's how the church is run.

01:15:18.067 --> 01:15:20.389

You know, they, they go off numbers,

01:15:21.229 --> 01:15:24.092

tithing activity, all of that.

01:15:24.392 --> 01:15:25.793

And, you know,

01:15:25.813 --> 01:15:28.575

we discussed who's in charge and,

01:15:28.736 --> 01:15:29.216

and they don't,

01:15:30.271 --> 01:15:31.432

you know, how are we doing?

01:15:31.972 --> 01:15:33.394

You know, how are the members doing?

01:15:33.414 --> 01:15:34.695

And maybe this last survey

01:15:34.815 --> 01:15:37.317

was an effort to do that,

01:15:37.417 --> 01:15:38.518

but it was more of like

01:15:38.598 --> 01:15:39.639

kind of what we said, like,

01:15:39.699 --> 01:15:40.560

how do you feel about this?

01:15:40.580 --> 01:15:41.841

Do you think this is a sin?

01:15:42.622 --> 01:15:42.962

You know,

01:15:43.022 --> 01:15:44.143

would you leave the church if we

01:15:44.163 --> 01:15:45.084

change this policy?

01:15:45.104 --> 01:15:45.799

So

01:15:46.135 --> 01:15:48.157

And that human element on a mission for a

01:15:52.548 --> 01:15:52.768

you know,

01:15:52.808 --> 01:15:54.530

my mission president found a way

01:15:54.630 --> 01:15:58.253

to rally his troops and get

01:15:58.313 --> 01:16:00.875

us to be absolutely devoted to the cause.

01:16:01.776 --> 01:16:03.117

Honestly.

01:16:03.137 --> 01:16:04.458

Do you happen to remember

01:16:05.779 --> 01:16:07.060

what the numbers were like

01:16:07.220 --> 01:16:08.661

before and after he

01:16:08.741 --> 01:16:09.682

implemented all of these

01:16:09.722 --> 01:16:10.883

new policies and everything?

01:16:11.564 --> 01:16:12.605

Yeah, approximately.

01:16:12.665 --> 01:16:15.027

So these are approximate.

01:16:16.248 --> 01:16:18.830

So I think a year before he got there,

01:16:20.188 --> 01:16:21.549

baptized like two to three

01:16:21.569 --> 01:16:23.011

hundred people in the

01:16:23.031 --> 01:16:24.832

mission that seems like a

01:16:24.892 --> 01:16:29.577

lot um i mean right yeah

01:16:29.677 --> 01:16:31.258

right i mean a hundred and

01:16:31.278 --> 01:16:32.479

fifty missionaries that's

01:16:32.660 --> 01:16:34.361

that's two two convert

01:16:34.381 --> 01:16:35.642

baptisms per missionary

01:16:35.662 --> 01:16:36.643

that seems pretty good to

01:16:36.663 --> 01:16:38.205

me yeah but then you

01:16:38.225 --> 01:16:39.206

compare it to like south

01:16:39.246 --> 01:16:40.527

america and the more you

01:16:40.587 --> 01:16:41.608

know they're baptizing like

01:16:41.648 --> 01:16:43.670

thousands honestly right right

01:16:45.353 --> 01:16:46.575

But let's talk for just a

01:16:46.636 --> 01:16:48.038

second about why that is.

01:16:48.719 --> 01:16:50.884

Because in South America,

01:16:51.244 --> 01:16:52.687

these are poorer people

01:16:53.569 --> 01:16:55.673

than in Florida or anywhere

01:16:55.713 --> 01:16:57.035

else in the United States, right?

01:16:57.075 --> 01:16:57.877

And the church has...

01:16:58.302 --> 01:16:59.303

some things to offer.

01:16:59.683 --> 01:17:01.084

If you're in poverty,

01:17:01.544 --> 01:17:02.965

the church offers some safety,

01:17:03.025 --> 01:17:03.945

some security.

01:17:05.906 --> 01:17:07.987

They do a lot of trickery with like,

01:17:08.428 --> 01:17:09.948

come and have a big meal at

01:17:09.988 --> 01:17:10.909

the church building.

01:17:11.529 --> 01:17:12.450

If you join the church,

01:17:13.270 --> 01:17:14.311

we'll take care of your family,

01:17:14.351 --> 01:17:15.532

that kind of attitude.

01:17:17.172 --> 01:17:17.853

Not to mention,

01:17:17.973 --> 01:17:19.414

this is about your heritage.

01:17:19.494 --> 01:17:21.055

This is about your ancestors,

01:17:21.115 --> 01:17:22.275

which they're also pulling

01:17:22.295 --> 01:17:23.236

back now saying that the

01:17:23.276 --> 01:17:24.276

Book of Mormon isn't a

01:17:24.356 --> 01:17:25.897

literal record of the

01:17:25.937 --> 01:17:27.058

people in the Americas.

01:17:28.180 --> 01:17:29.723

I spent my entire mission

01:17:29.763 --> 01:17:30.945

telling people that it was

01:17:30.985 --> 01:17:32.408

an actual record of the

01:17:32.468 --> 01:17:34.151

people of the Americas.

01:17:34.932 --> 01:17:37.337

And now what are they telling us?

01:17:39.322 --> 01:17:41.963

No, it's not so much.

01:17:42.043 --> 01:17:44.023

Yeah, they've dialed it back gradually.

01:17:45.124 --> 01:17:47.104

The original introduction to

01:17:47.124 --> 01:17:48.225

the Book of Mormon stated

01:17:48.405 --> 01:17:49.905

unequivocally that the

01:17:49.965 --> 01:17:51.526

Native Americans in this

01:17:51.566 --> 01:17:53.166

country are descendants of

01:17:53.186 --> 01:17:54.547

the Lamanites in the Book of Mormon.

01:17:54.567 --> 01:17:55.327

Yeah.

01:17:55.347 --> 01:17:58.028

That was the original introduction.

01:17:58.248 --> 01:18:00.088

Then it became they're among

01:18:00.148 --> 01:18:03.749

the descendants of the Lamanites,

01:18:03.849 --> 01:18:05.390

and now they don't mention it at all.

01:18:05.410 --> 01:18:05.704

Yeah.

01:18:05.879 --> 01:18:05.959

Yeah,

01:18:05.979 --> 01:18:07.099

I think it's like anywhere from two

01:18:07.139 --> 01:18:07.699

to three hundred.

01:18:08.120 --> 01:18:10.060

And then that first full

01:18:11.301 --> 01:18:14.783

twelve months that he was there,

01:18:15.203 --> 01:18:17.724

I think they got up to six hundred.

01:18:19.191 --> 01:18:19.251

Wow.

01:18:19.391 --> 01:18:20.792

So doubled it.

01:18:20.892 --> 01:18:21.232

Yeah.

01:18:21.392 --> 01:18:22.552

And then the next year,

01:18:22.792 --> 01:18:25.033

I remember we set when I was still there,

01:18:25.754 --> 01:18:28.074

we set a goal to hit.

01:18:29.335 --> 01:18:30.855

I still remember the meeting exactly.

01:18:30.875 --> 01:18:32.156

And we came up with a number

01:18:32.316 --> 01:18:35.057

and it was ten fifty, a thousand fifty.

01:18:36.217 --> 01:18:38.338

And by then I was gone, but they hit it.

01:18:38.618 --> 01:18:39.519

They hit it that next year.

01:18:40.119 --> 01:18:42.620

Wow.

01:18:42.680 --> 01:18:42.920

Wow.

01:18:44.716 --> 01:18:45.677

That seems like a lot.

01:18:46.197 --> 01:18:48.239

I think it's a lot for an American mission,

01:18:48.580 --> 01:18:48.900

you know?

01:18:49.701 --> 01:18:52.303

Yeah, I mean, I think so, too.

01:18:53.584 --> 01:18:55.266

But we were told it was the

01:18:55.526 --> 01:18:58.329