Talking IBS with Hypnotherapist - Michael Mahoney

Hey, welcome to the Karen Kenny show. I'm Karen Kenny, of course, and you guys, I'm so excited to introduce you like wicked, wicked wicked, we're gonna we're getting excited to introduce you to my guests today. So I'm gonna give him a second to just say hello. And then I'm gonna talk about him a little bit, and he's just gonna kind of have to sit there and take it. So, Michael Mahoney, welcome to the Karen Kinney show. I'm so happy to hear that.

Thank you, Karen. Thanks for inviting me.

Oh, my gosh, my, my pleasure. So before I dive into, like, why you're on the show, like, like, who you are, how I know you or whatever, I'm just gonna tell them a little bit. I have your bio. And it is extensive. So I'm just gonna pick a few things from this. And then I'll let you tell us a little bit about yourself in your own journey, in your own words, because I always think like words on a page are great, but really, once you hear somebody and you get to kind of hear their energy, hear the voice, and you have the best accent anyway, so that'll be fun. But so just so you guys know the listeners. So Michael is an award winning Clinical Hypnotherapist he has over 37 years 37 years it's so crazy of experience and helping people overcome various physical and emotional challenges. He is internationally recognized as a specialist in treating irritable bowel syndrome, also known as IBS and other gastrointestinal conditions, and he helps people obviously through using hypnotherapy. He has a bunch of different home programs for insomnia, confidence, self esteem, burnout, anxiety, stress. And he also has a background and this is I'm really interested in this because and we'll dive more deeply into this is your relationships and working in the medical field because you worked closely with primary and secondary health professionals providing hypnotherapy services. So you have a ton of experience in counseling and therapeutic intervention services with medical professionals and also I think you said the teaching profession and local authorities. And then in 2011, you're such a big deal that the Queen, you get invited, you get invited to the Queen's garden party at Buckingham Palace, which is just unbelievable. You created and this is how we met. And again, like I said, well dive into this more. You're world renowned for creating the IBS audio program 100. And you've helped millions of IBS sufferers across the world. It's so incredible. I know how passionate you are about helping your clients because I mentioned with you and I get to hear you talk about your passion. And I know and I want to talk about this too. This is one of my specific questions. I know you work with people over zoom, etc, etc, etc. You have a book coming out in 2024 We'll talk about that. But you guys just to land you in time in space. This is Michael Mahoney award winning brilliant. You know hypnotherapist I consider Michael to be the godfather of IBS hypnotherapy helping people helping IBS sufferers using hypnotherapy. It's how I discovered him 22 years ago. And I'm just so excited to have you on the show and to share you with my listeners. Because I think the work that you do, I know how heartfelt it is, how genuine it is how you have a deep desire to help people and especially help people who want to help themselves. So we'll talk about that a little bit in one. So that's a lot of your bio, but is there anything that you want to say about yourself that's not on that piece of paper, your bio that you want to kind of talk about yourself? Like how do you introduce yourself to people?

Well, very simplistically, my name is Michael Mahoney and I'm a hypno-therapist.

Hi, I'm Michael Maloney hypnotherapist Now I bet that so many people what I mean it's such an incredible conversation starter I people like I was I was obsessed with hypnosis like I thought that like first time on Scooby Doo when we saw the little evil clown like hypnotizing you know them, and I just thought how fascinating like you can get people you know, to do these a little, you know, swinging, a little swinging, watch the whole thing. But I think that people must, must naturally be really curious when they find out you're a hypnotherapist like what's your experience been with that?

It's either a conversation starter or a conversation stopper. And lots of people tend to look away, don't look into my eyes, and they have that idea of the old Rasputin and spin In golly, you're swinging the watch and gonna get taken over. And immunotherapy is far from that. In fact, you've, you're more in control with him to therapy because you more alert of what's going on all your senses that you know you're perfectly safe. And it's a natural process anyway. So it's usually people want to know more, but it can be a conversation stopper as well. Yeah, I

find that fascinating. And we're gonna talk we're going to talk all about this like the myths of hypnosis hypnotherapy what people think it is what it really is all of that. But before we get into that I'm dying to know, right? So this is what happens if you go to a conference, or you're leading an event or a workshop or a retreat center in the future, right? When you're doing these big things, when you when you get on stages, or you come on podcasts, or you speak or lead things. You know, people always lead with this bio with, like, this is Michael Mahoney, and he's award winning this and the Queen and Buckingham Palace and millions and all this stuff. And what I'm most curious about, and this is just me, because I'm kind of a weirdo. I'm like, all that is amazing. I love knowing where you are. But what I'm most curious about is how you got there. So what were you like, as a little kid, like, who were you as a little person? Like, can you tell me a little bit about yourself?

Yeah, I think so. I'll try. A long time ago. I was brought up on a council estate, social housing in England. And I was brought up in a secure family, brother and a sister, older brother, younger sister. And from a very early age. I just wanted to help people. And that was really indicative of how my family was. And I used to be the young lad that would carry the shopping bags for the old lady from the shop, I would pick up the windfall apples and put them in the barrels in the garden. And generally just mow the lawns, cut the hedges and because I learned from an early age that I think I'm here to serve. And I just enjoy listening to people watching people. And when I was getting old, and it was in high school, and I was thinking about what I wanted to do, and I left school, perhaps a little bit sooner. I decided that I either wanted to be a doctor, a teacher, a preacher, or a clown. And

wait, doctor, preacher or a clown,

doctor, teacher, preacher, or a clown. DTP say? I want you to be one of them. My grandmother used to say there isn't really much difference in any of them.

Oh my god, that's so funny. Michael, are you good? So

DTP See, doctor, teacher, preacher clown. And I realized that quite quickly that eight year study to be a doctor, did I want to do it was I up to it? I'm not so sure. To be a teacher, well as five years training, to be a preacher, there's another eight. And to be a clown. Well, I could do that in minutes using make people laugh, so that seemed the easiest option. Going forward. A little birdie told me a little while he used to work in the computer industry, and used to work down in London. And I always had an interest like yourself in hypnotherapy and hypnosis. What it was what it isn't such things. And one day I was driving back down to London, and just leaving the house my little lad who was only five was crying because Daddy was going away again for another week. I was going to have another week in hotels and away from the family.

This is in your in your IT business. You mean

I was in the IT industry? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And this one week, I opened a broadsheet. And it said, trained to be a Clinical Hypnotherapist. And I thought, that sounds good. So I looked, and I decided that was what I wanted to do after looking into it a little bit more.

Right. Can I interrupt you, Ruth, can I interrupt for a moment? Okay, so before we go further, I want to go back for a moment because I have a follow up question. And then I want to so as a broadsheet newspaper, is that what you mean? Is that

a big broadsheets? One of the big newspapers? Okay.

So when you Yeah, okay, so I was I was confused for me because I know we always we call them Michael isms. It's my US and UK connection. Right? Oh, Okay, so I want to go back because I think this is, first of all just interesting to me. And hopefully, hopefully my listeners think so too. You said I learned at a young age that I was here to serve. So my sense of you is that like me, you were a wicked sensitive kid, were you a very sensitive child, like picking up on kind of energy or people's moods? Or shifts in like, what, um, you know what I mean? Like, what, what made you so so how does one come to know that they were meant to serve? Do you have any a story or anything where you can share or go a little deeper into that or tell me more,

I was able to learn quite quickly, of one when to be quiet. When one went to when somebody was upset, in my younger days, if somebody was upset, I could pick it up quite quickly. my iMac, when I was five, my first year at school, I had a little fella as a friend, and he died. And it was a child or the illness that he died. And from then on, I actually used to see various entities, ghosts, spirits, whatever people want to call them or not call them whatever it may be. And I realized that there was something much more than just what we can see going on in the world. And that helped me to look beyond perhaps masks, and that some people would put on and I got attune to people's voices, you know, either may be able to put a mask on, or there's always something a quiver, or a worry or a tone in a voice that's different when there's a problem. So I think it was thought through those sorts of things, that I really started to realize that yeah, all these people is loads and loads of big people, adults, and they're all different. But what makes them different. And that was a thought that I had really when I was perhaps 11 or 12. As I was changing and developing a guess and maturing and all that sort of things that we all go through. I just thought well, you know, we're just so different. And why do people have black hair and brown eye or whatever it is? Green eyes? Why does that happen? But then, I think on top of all that, when you're able to feel and that was a there was a feeling from people who was it felt the air felt thicker, when I got closer to people. And as I got older, I realized that we could, people could be broken down into two. Some are radiators, and some are drains and some radiator type people are those who wants to be warm and close to but the drains are the people who suck your very life force out of you if you were to let them so I was able to distinguish

between radiators. Alright, let's let's because this is a really fantastic image. And I want the listeners to hear this again. So radiators are the kind of people that generate let's call it warmth, love good energy, you want to cozy up to those people you want. Those are the kinds of people that draw you towards them. You want to be in their presence and be in their energy and be close to them. And then there's the drain is this the drains who just like suck the light. You're already saying like to suck you down. Okay, fantastic. I love I love those images. Okay, so you learn. You're a wicked sensitive kid, you're able to sense and feel things on a really deep level. And you start to pick up on these things. And wouldn't you say, you know, it's interesting how you say things like you said, I learned not I learned when not to talk, which is how I would interpret I learned when to listen. Like I learned when to be quiet. I learned how to observe. And I think you and I have and I'm not saying I'm you but I think we share a lot of those same qualities even though I'm very verbose. I do love to listen, I do love to observe like I can people watch like nobody's business. Like I, if I'm in a room with people, there will be some people watching like I'm taking in, like easier. I'm hearing this stuff. Right. And I think it's actually what makes people whether in whatever therapeutic setting they they're in, right, whether you're a mentor, a coach, a hypnotist or hypnotherapist, a counselor, a therapist, a doctor, whatever part. A big part of our profession is the listening piece of it the listening profession. And I think that not all people share and I haven't forgotten the broadsheet. We're gonna get back there but i i I think a lot, not all people share the skill set of good deep listening. And I would love because you're so brilliant at it. Do you not to put you on the spot? Because my people and people who are listening, I don't tell my guests ahead of time, there's no like, I don't send them questions. This is just a conversation. So it might be on the spot, but I think you can handle this. What do you think makes the qualities? If you could name three, maybe there's more of good? What makes a good listener? Or the quality of good listening? Do you have thoughts on that?

I think, to listen to somebody properly, you've got to be aware of the words, the tones, and also facial expressions, and eye movements, and breathing patterns. All those things help you to hear what the person is saying. And as you do more and more of that, you will see that there's a congruency in all those things. So you know, what you're hearing is actually true.

And, you know, yeah, I think that's as much as I'll say on that one.

Yeah. I mean, that's really fantastic. And I think that how do I think some of us come by that? Innately? Like intuitively, we know how to listen and look at sometimes those of us who are wicked good listeners, or wicked good paying attention to what's happening, that actually comes out of trauma, because we learn to be hyper vigilant about our situations. Yeah, our environments, right. So that was, I always say, I've kind of turned my traumas into my superpower, it's because I'm very aware, but everything you just named there, like facial expressions, eye movements, breathe breath patterns, the words that are being said, and I often I will add to that, also, words that aren't being said. And I would also add, and I know, you could say much more, but I would also add just for the sake of being interesting here. Pace, the pace at which people speak. And the rhythm of the of how they speak, where they start and stop what they don't say those pauses, you know, things like that, I think are also really good. Yeah, and those are all things that we as, as, you know, hypnotist or hypnotherapist that we're looking for when we're, you know, talking with with clients or potential clients. So um, so I love, love, love that you were this little, you know, that what was the movie here that was really big in the United States. I can't believe it with a little six year old kid or whatever it goes, I see dead people, right? It's like, that's like, again, I know, my listeners right now are shouting, they're shouting at their phones right now, like trying to tell me the name of it. But I'll never forget that it's that those of us who and I grew up in a really I grew up in a family that was really open. I always talk about my Nana, my Nana, her bra little. She was my she was my my step side of the family. But she was my Nan. I mean, she came into my life when I was like two or three. And I always called her like a little Italian witch. Because she did all these little ceremonies, she taught me how to bless houses, you know, sprinkling salt on the window sills, and like all of these things that we would do. And she believed in the mala cookies. And if somebody casts a spell of jealousy on you, she did these rituals and stuff. And so, you know, tarot readers, and just the other, like, the veil between the worlds is thin, I would always say, right, so I just love that you mean, it sounds like you did you always have a good sense of yourself? It sounds like you didn't question it. Like you just this is Michael like I have these abilities, are you? Did you question it? Did you feel afraid of things or scared or weird or different? Or did you just accept this as me?

Well, I didn't really know that I was I was different to everybody saying that it was only when I was only when I was educated, that I was then decided that I might be a bit weird. But there is no worry. No worry about it at all. Not at all. I

love that. Okay. Okay. So thank you for indulging me and with that, because I think it's an important part of what makes you really, really fantastic at what you do is your sensitivity and your kindness and your compassion and your ability to not just listen and hear what's being said, but going under the under of maybe what's not being said verbally but what's really being said, You know what I mean? And I think it's I think it's part of your gifts and so let's fast forward let's get your back on the train or whatever you're traveling you're going to this event or this travel and your little boys crying because daddy's leaving again and you open up the newspaper and you see an ad or something for learn to be a hypnotist or hypnotherapist? What does it say again? And then and then continue, please

learn learn to be a Clinical Hypnotherapist? Yes. Okay. So this was something that I looked into, obviously. And it really summed up. If I was to get through it, and it was successful. It really seemed to sum up everything that I wanted in my DT PC, by doctor, teacher, preacher and cloud. So I, I took some entrance exams, and the wind was going in the right direction. So I passed that. And then I had about six or seven months to wait before the course started. So I went to my boss. And I said to my boss, once I'd got the acceptance letter, do you think I've done a good job for you? Yes, good, because I'm leaving. And I need enough money for me to do this course, which is going to take me four and a half years, and maybe five. So there was a few expletives. And there was a lot of negotiation over the following months, but he was kind enough to actually do what I asked him to do. And I started the course, and came out. I think I had a conversation with a person quite recently. And that person said to me, you've asked the test where you've not been tested. Oh,

I wonder who said that? That sounds like somebody very wise. It sounds like a que que is Oh,

that was that was one of yours? It was so true. It was so true. You pass

the test, but you haven't been tested. Right? Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the, there's never a truer word being said, because, you know, you're told in the class, you eventually get to see clients, you deal with them, you work through them and all the rest, but then you come out of the classroom and the safety in that bubble. And then it was let loose on the world. Happiness. So clinical hypnotherapy C H. So I decided that C H was encompassing the DT PC, the DP, the DT PC, clinical hypnotherapy helped me to heal people, like a doctor, I was able to teach them different things like a teacher. And if people were of a religious or spiritual bent, and I understood that then I was able to help them there because I have one and others do. And I can still make people smile in difficult times. So the clinical hypnotherapy, the CH encompasses all those things that I wanted to be when I was a kid. And thank you, God for that.

Oh my gosh, like this resin. I feel myself getting a little emotional because it resonates so much. I had no you know, I didn't break it down like that. Like you I knew I wanted to help people and help animals. It's my dream to learn how to help hypnotize animals so that you know, especially animals who are in I know, it sounds kooky, but like to help animals feel less stressful in environments especially like when they're in. You know, rescue situations are there at the pound, as they say when they're at like waiting to be adopted, there's so much stress and energy in those places. So that's a story for another day, but I was just thinking, like, I've always wanted to help too. And all those elements that you just laid out, being able to help people heal, being able to teach them and not only teach them but teach them how to help themselves, right. Like, that's such a big thing and being a spiritual mentor, right, that preaching part if they're spiritually inclined, like that's part I think spirituality is part of the healing like I say, the four levels of healing, there's the emotional, the mental, the physical and the spiritual. And I think is not I'm not gonna say all hypnotherapist but certainly you and I think that, you know, feel like part of it, and then making people laugh like humor is one of my, one of my things too. So it's I think it's one of the reasons why just we joke all the time. I was like Kismet like us coming together and why I think you are my mentor is because you embody so many of the things that are resonant with my heart as well. And how and even though you're like I said, you have like 37 years of this right? I've been helping people for 25 years, but in different ways, right? Like, I'm more I'm more new to the specific hypnotherapy world. But you, I think we come at it from a I would say same these different, right, because I'm not you, you're not me. But I think the intention is there. So I love that. You were given this gift as you said, Thank God double Amen hands as I would say, to be able to do what you came here to do. And the particular way that you came here to serve. I mean, to me, I always say, what we really are is love. That's our identity. And our only purpose is to extend that love and whether you do it from being by being a hypnotherapist, or however you serve you you're an entrepreneur or you're a stay at home mom or your agenda or whatever you you're an IT person however you serve. That's really how you extend love and in the world. And I think I think you do it so brilliantly. So Clinical Hypnotherapist or clinical hypnotherapy. Can you tell me because we all know, like, you started this off the Svengali like people have this idea of hypnosis being like, Oh, we're gonna hypnotize you to cluck like a chicken or make an ass of yourself or do embarrassing things. Or we see how it's portrayed in the media, in movies and books and what and TV shows or street street hypnotist who almost are treating it like magic. And, you know, it can kind of give hypnosis, a bad rap. So as hypnotherapist we already have a lot working against us, because in the culture, how it's perceived. So can we talk a little bit about that. And then I would love for you to share your definition of what hypnosis and hypnotherapy is. But like, can we just talk a little bit about that what we're often bumping up against with people, like you said, it can be a conversation stopper because people have these preconceived notions of what it is.

Hypnosis is generally defined as a altered state of consciousness. Daydreaming is not a state of consciousness, getting in your car, from your normal place of work, to driving home, and going through the lights around the roundabouts. And eventually taking the laps and the rights and the twists, and you actually arrive home safely. But there may be a particular set of lights, you can't remember going through. Even when we're driving unfamiliar routes, it's not a state of consciousness. But interestingly, if when you were taking that familiar route, while you were in your own little zone, wait waiting to get home, then if somebody were to step out, off the pavement, onto the road, then immediately your analytical, quick responses would actually deal with it. And hopefully, you wouldn't send the person flying. So even while you're in that bubble, that altered state of consciousness, you're always aware of what's going on around you. Whereas a lot of people think, no, you're gonna get taken over, or put under, I don't know, whether it's over or under or wherever they

take it right. Like you lose, they think they lose their self authority, their agency and that they're going to just be hypnotized. And it's almost like knocking them out and they lose all self control. And that's the exact opposite. That's not what's happening at all. And every audio of yours I've ever listened to, you always say and shouldn't emergency arise, you will come back and fully awake and conscious and be able to deal with the emergency immediately. And so you're not being put as you would say put over we're not pulling one over on you but we're also not putting you under and this translate because I think people like oh, like you know, they're like little kids think your arms are gonna lift up and we're gonna put you into a trance so you start walking around and stuff. It's fantastic. I love I love first of all, I love how little kids brains work. But we're not taking away your power, your authority, your your agency. It's like anytime you're watching TV and something happens on the screen and you jump or something sad happens and you cry. You're in a state of light trance like you are hypnotized. And that's why I always say like, I want to use hypnosis to do hypnotized people out of some of the belief systems and the patterns and the behaviors that they're already hypnotized in, and you to use hypnosis as a way to help people and love people. And, you know, for them to also it's a very powerful way to help, I think the body and the mind to communicate, and for there to be experiences of relaxation, and so that the parasympathetic part of the nervous system where we relax, you know, gets turned on. So do you want to talk about I mean, you get to go into it, however deep you want to talk about it. But do you want to say anything more about hypnotherapy and hypnosis?

I all I would say to listeners really is that it notices the altered state of consciousness and hypnotherapy is using that altered state for remedial purpose to help to adjust, make better to release to let go. So hit that's all hypnotherapy is. And it certainly isn't anything to be worried about or concerned about. My only the only little thing that I say to people is look, how can you be scared? How can you be afraid of something that you've not experienced? But in fact, you have experienced it? You experienced that altered state of consciousness twice a day, just before you go to sleep at night when you slide into that. And then when you wake up in the morning, you're zu come out again. So that altered state of consciousness that therapists will talk about is literally what you've done twice a day anyway. Your whole life, nothing to be afraid of your whole life. Yeah, you've

been doing. People you've been, you've been doing it even slipping in and out of it your whole life. And here we are, you know. And so I would like to talk about, you know, you help people in a lot of different ways. You know, and of course, think of all the I mean, listeners think of all the ways that a hypnotist can help whether it's stop smoking, losing weight, anxiety, insomnia, chronic pain, burn, I mean, there's a thought I mean, 1000s and 1000s of ways right. And at some point, and you do you continue to help people with lots of different things, right, because people be peopling as long as we're human being as long as humans a human being, there will be people who have shit going on that they need help with, right? Because this being human is an ongoing problem. But at some point in your career, as you're helping people in all these different ways, because you started, I had it written down over here. Let's see if I can remember off the top of my head. But you started in 1987? Correct? 9986? Yeah. Oh, 1986. Okay, and so, so my years might be off a little bit. But then is it around 1991? Were you because you were working in a lot of medical offices, which I think is fascinating. So you were kind of being sent people that the doctors didn't know what to do with? And this was in other areas besides IBS? Is that correct? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So when the doctors run out, they're like, We don't know what to do. We've tried all our stuff. Send them to Michael. So you spent a lot a lot of years how many years? Were you kind of in medical environments?

Totally. Just over 25 Okay,

so that's a lot. So at some point does the do the doctors and the medical professionals around you start to understand that there's another element to healing beyond the scope of give a pill cut into their bodies, remove this, do they start to at some point? Respect, right. I mean, they must because they refer to you but something starts to happen where they are, like, send them to Mahoney, because we don't know what else to do here. Right?

Yeah. I was really lucky. I was really fortunate. How my path worked. A new medical center opened not far from home. And they sent a flier out from coming to our Open Day coming have

a look like Open House type of a thing, Open House thing, and

we went round and there was we did the tour, there was operating theatres, there was consultancy rooms, there was orthopedic places and just the things you would expect to see. And when the majority of my my tour, my group moved away. I actually said to the turned out to be a doctor. I actually said Who should I speak to if I want to offer a service and he put me in touch with somebody and I said Your place is wonderful. But you could do with some someone like me and I I think it was. There's a saying in the north of England you have a face that will stand clogging. And a clog is something that you used to wear, not our feet. You know, the Dutch used to wear clogs? Yeah. clog clubs. Yeah. So it means you hard faced, you're asking something out of out of turn. Oh,

so like, so basically, they're saying you're being a little big for your britches. Like, you're just asking Yeah, okay. Yep. Yeah.

So, you know, they wanted to listen to what I said, I had three, three meetings with them, the senior partner, practice manager, the another manager, and then the doctors again. And yes, they said, Rocky, come Come and join us for half a day a week. It was a Friday, the slowest day of the week. Of course, everybody wants to get well at weekend on. So Friday afternoon, was the slot that they gave me. And the first week I was there, I sat there, nobody came. Second week. Nobody came third week. One person. Wow. Okay, so I'm paying for this room. But I just think, you know, stick with it. And I did. And over time, then people started to come to see me. And none of the doctors sent anybody to me. Because in England, if a doctor refers the doctor is responsible for what that third party does to the patient. So it took a little bit of time I needed I got to a stage where I needed more time. And to cut a very long story short, I ended up doing six days a week. So things took off really quite well over, over a couple of years. Took a couple of years, but over. So I was working six days a week. Sometimes I was saying 13 to 15 people a day. Wow. complete madness. It was complete madness. And fortunately, I pulled myself up. There's a fine line between conscientiousness and insanity. When I was about to cross it, I think, yeah. But I pulled this up, I pulled it back and said, You know, I'm gonna make myself feel. Yeah, and cut it back, cutting back to four days. And then over another couple of years, I built it up again. But Meantime, back at the ranch. One day, one of the days there were three ladies with IBS.

Okay, so this is this is I have this right here. Please tell us about that first fateful time with the three IBS sufferers is one of the questions because that was like a turning point. And yeah, and first of all, as a IBS sufferer myself, somebody who you know, had my first attack IBS attack at 15. I got so excited just thinking about that fateful day when they walked into your office because it changed their lives, no doubt, but it also changed your life. And this is a this is a big deal. So I'm so happy you brought this up. So let's, let's tell please tell us that story. Because, again, I refer to you as the IBS hypnotherapy Godfather, right? Like you're the grandfather, or however you want to say it. You've been doing this for a wicked long time. And these women came out came to you. Well, here's my questions. Were they referrals? Do they stumble upon you? They were just desperate, like, how did they end up in your presence?

I think it was a combined effect of desperation. Yeah, they they came each each one of them through the day came and said they had IBS. And at that stage, I didn't really know anything about it at all, really. And all it was is three little, three little letters, IBS, but I could see and I could feel what he was actually doing to their lives. And the tears and the emotion and the distress when I had to tell them that I couldn't help them at that time. And it was that it was that feeling of letting them down. That drove me but I said to them, Do you know I will find more out about this and I will contact you. And all of them went away. They were very polite, and really didn't believe what I've said to them. So I still didn't

wait so they didn't put in the sake of storytelling. They didn't believe that you would come back around that you would you were determined to find Find a way to help them and you would reach back out like they just they because here's the thing listen is IBS sufferers. You know, doctors don't a lot of times know what to do with us. You actually have a word for what we become sometimes to doctors, right? What's the word when we they see as chumming it, what do you call us? boat sinks. Hot sinks like hot like, right? Like like hot. Yeah, hot time sinks. Yeah. Because they see us coming in. They've used every trick in their book. They don't know how to help us. But the the suffering continues. And it's almost kind of like a combination. I imagine. I imagine. It's like, I'm not a doctor. But I imagine it's a combination of frustration, maybe a little guilt, a little like, they don't want to be reminded that they can't help us and like throwing your hands up like, oh, look, I don't know what else to do. Stop coming around in a way. No, it's so they're out of stuff. So yeah. So when somebody comes and finds you, and I want to, I'm gonna go back to these, these three women in that turning point. But by the time they get to you, they're usually desperate because they've tried all the medical things they've, you know, and back then back then there was probably nothing. I mean, nowadays, it's like the pills and stuff and whatever. But back then they come to you desperate. You can't, like you have to acknowledge because you're incredibly honest. Like you you operate under honesty. I'm trying to think of the four words. Let's see if I can remember them. Honesty, decency, truthfulness, and what was the other one you have those four words that you

use equal, decent, honest, and truthful, legal, decent,

honest, and truthful, that's a foundation of yours and mine, too, which again, it's why your moment, so. So these women come to you. And so you are now like, how does it feel in your body? Are you like determined, you're like on fire, you're like, I'm gonna find a way to help these women like what happens from that point where you have to turn them away.

One of the one of the things that felt that I can still remember it is, I felt a combination of anger with myself. Because I didn't have the skills that I needed, but a desk there was a, there was a feeling of resignation from them. They've come to me, I've basically just wanted them to get out to the office, because I couldn't do anything for them. But in my heart and heart, I actually said to each one, I will, I will come back to you. And I did talk a few years what I did. And how that was going to work out I didn't really know. But I did a lot of research, not a studying. Oh, a massive, massive amount. And to the point when I was letting some of my patient days pass by, so I could just keep studying and studying and finding people and research and what I was also looking for things that hadn't worked, as well as things that had

that had not worked had not worked. So

have not worked. Yeah, well, I didn't really want to go down any of those avenues. But then there was a I read some research of a hypnotherapist at Manchester hospital met in Manchester there was doing some work with IBS patients. And I looked and researched and thought I could do it differently than what I understood was happening there. And he decided to do my own protocol for IBS.

So and I just want to interrupt here because I don't think we've said the whole thing here so IBS for listeners, I'm sure they no but in case you don't irritable bowel syndrome. That's what IBS stands for. Okay, continue, please.

Yeah. So the protocol that was being used in a research hospital was one that was using one hypnotherapy script over a 12 week period. And I thought I could do something that would be different or it would be something that would suit my way of working. Okay,

so just for the for the uninitiated at home. So what he's describing is a script. A script is like Think of it as the words that somebody would be saying to you. So if your hypnotherapist created, like did did over 12 weeks had sessions with you, they would just use this script to keep saying the same thing to you. Or they would record an audio that you would listen to on your own. But what you're describing Michael is 12 weeks, probably daily listening, have the same thing over and over and over and over again, correct? Yes. Okay. So while we know, repetition matters, and we'll talk about repetition in a little bit. You're looking at that and you're saying, Okay, there's gotta be, there's gotta seems easier, but there's gotta be a better way or a different way. And I think I'm the person that can create something that is more not not to poopoo on that thing. No. No. To any of it. Yeah. But to say I can do it, I can do something either better or different or more. More, Micheal Mahoney?

Well, well, Mahoney?

Yes. Yeah, gotcha.

And on this where my upbringing came from my learning process at my school, high school motto was perseverance. Perseverance, that was the high school motto. And I've lived and breathed it almost every day from when I joined that school to right to this point. My take on things was, if you do the same thing over and over and over again, nothing different is going to change. So I developed a protocol that accounted took into account how people change. From the first session to the second session to the third session, you're supposed to explain to your read to your listeners, is that a simple example would be if they put this on pause, and go out and make a cup of tea, coffee or get a glass of water and then came back. Because when they came back and turned it on, again, they would be different people than they were when they switched it off. Because they would have run the tap and whatever else have done well, they have been away from the screen. So every little change has got to be accounted for. People aren't the same. And reading the same thing for 12 weeks, is basically bordering on boredom. So you can warp IVs out of people. We

can't wait, that's so funny. We can't bore IVs out of people like out of boredom. Oh my god. I've never heard that before. That's so funny. But wait, what you're describing is your infamous op sim. Right? Ongoing. Let's see if I can remember ongoing progressive session improvement method. Got it? All right, pat on the head for me. Okay. Yeah, but that's what you're describing, correct?

Yes, yeah. And you have to do something different to get a different outcome. Yeah, you've got to recognize that the person that's doing it is different. So their needs need to be addressed, their changes their eggs, their knowledge and wisdom and understanding and expectation. As you go along, can progress. And that's how we progress in life. We continue to move forward, because we have different life skills and knowledge and wisdom and all sorts of other things. So so go ahead.

No, I was gonna say but so that's the beauty also, I think of working directly with a hypnotherapist or a hypnotist is that who's working therapeutically is to they're dealing with, it's so interesting, they're not just dealing with the problem, quote, unquote, or the problems because an IBS that uses so many different kinds of things are coming at you, but you're dealing with the person and the individual person because not all people suffer from IBS the same and not all people end up with the same strategies or feelings and while maybe all of us feel a sense of anxiety, and stress and frustration and those things how it shows up in each person can be a little different so I think that can be one of the cool things about working individually with with a hypnotist as well. And also I think they're like I'm somebody who has listened to your audios as well. And I know how impactful and powerful those can be too. But I think there's something to be said for somebody really hearing your story for the first time and listening to personally like what has been your experience and what's what's going on. Part of that even that Initial Consultation can be healing, just even having really listen and care. Do you want to say anything about that? Or

I think the initial consultation with with your therapist, if the therapist is doing things, well, I would say we're we're right and the correct structured way. It can be part of the healing process. It's cathartic in its own right, it has its own standing. And, you know, we're talking about people that have irritable bowel syndrome. And we said earlier, by the time they get to you or to me, they've been through many, many doors, many trials, many tests, many medicines, and pills and potions or whatever else. And, you know, there comes a time, when we don't have to be psychologist and psychiatrist or therapists to understand when people are listening to us. And if we can create, I would say, every therapist, and if a client doesn't feel it, they should get up and walk out. But what I would say every client needs to feel safe and secure, and non judged. Come to see me, I come and tell people come to see me, whatever you're going to say, invariably, I might have heard it before, it might be the first time you're going to say it. But it might not be the first time I've heard it. So non judgmental, just be honest and open. Because at the end of the day, you and I can only work with what we're given. And if we want to make all the pieces of the jigsaw fit, people have got to tell us the truth, how they feel, all the things that have happened that haven't happened. And whether we're dealing with somebody with IBS, or dealing with Sony with phantom limb pain, or somebody that scared of spaghetti or whatever it is, we have to have that environment of trust and safety. And I would ask every listener, just to think of a time in their life, when they've had the ability to say what they want, do what they want, be who they are without the fear of being judged, or chastised or anything disparaging sent to them. If they can do any of that, if they can think of a moment or a time when they can do that. They're really lucky. They're very fortunate because many, many people just have never experienced that safe environment. That's what we should do. Create the safe environment, create trust. And those are the things that help us to move along on our journey together to get to the end. I

100% agree with you and I think with and like I said I want the listeners to remember we're focusing on IBS but today but you help with in so many different ways with different conditions in different situations but IBS sufferers by the time they've come to you or me or whatever. You know the other thing about the other thing about IBS, irritable bowel syndrome is even just that word bowel. There's so much shame and stigma around talking about what the body does talking about poop topping talking about like, all the quote unquote I'm doing little air quotes listeners, embarrassing things because there is so much embarrassment and shame and stigma and weirdness and you know, just people don't really a lot of IBS people get made fun of they're misunderstood. I mean it's really a frustrating condition because medical doctors don't know quote unquote, what causes it they have guesses they have theories they have theories right? And they don't know what cures it. Okay, so there's no cure for it as of yet here we are. However, gazillion years later right there's still no quote unquote cure for it. They throw things at the symptoms, right the pills, the potions, whatever. But I want to talk about this because you were around this you're in this medical setting, you're seeing all these people who are showing up with the symptoms and these situations and these you know, stigmas and the the shame or whatever, and you're giving them a safe place to land and you did so much research. You did trials you did like clinics you you basically I hope this is okay to say but like you mortgage right and you took out like a second mortgage on your house because you were so in bested in finding a way to help these people and you are getting, I would say cock blocked by all these doctors because either they didn't believe you, they didn't believe in the work that you were doing. And that goes back to high school, your word being perseverance. But you persevered, you're like, I'm not giving up on this. I'm not giving up on these IBS sufferers. I'm going to figure this out, and you put yourself your own money, your own time, your own energy on the line. And so I have so many questions about this, but I want to a very direct question is what was driving you? Was it really that shame of or that, you know, despair, like those three women that came in and you're like, I couldn't help them? Sure. That was a part of it. But what kept driving you all those years as you were developing IBS audio 100, as you were trying to figure out the opsin protocol, as you were figuring out how to help people like what was driving that train, you know, what I'm saying?

What drove that train, we have to go back to when I was 17 years old. And I was away from work for three, three months due to illness. And I was sweet on the post girl in, in, in the office.

So the post girl is the girl who brought the mail and stuff. Yes, yeah. Okay. I was, I was she had you had a little a little crush. That was the

one. And she had to leave for various reasons she had to leave. And I said to her, why didn't you come to me? And she said, Mike, you weren't there. You weren't there for me. Because I was sick. You weren't there for me. And they caught those words cut so deep, that whizzing forward again, when I couldn't help those three people, those three women, or that came back, I couldn't you weren't there for me. So I made sure that I am there for people. And I was there for those three, and that was the driver. That was the force. And even when people were saying don't do it, don't remortgage your house, for goodness sake. Don't do this, don't do that. There was so many people telling me I couldn't do what I wanted to do. But, you know, if somebody is driven with a passion to do something, I'll just stand to one side and watch me do it. Because I am going to do it. And that was the driver. But there were so many, so many cogs that needed to be put into that machine of thinking to get to where I wanted to go. But I eventually got then thank Lord for that. And eventually, you know, I developed this protocol, which people now call the, what I call the IBS audio program, 100. But even there it was, I developed a protocol. But one of my home visits was a story in this in my, in my book, I did a home visit to a man who was running several businesses very successfully from the sofa. And when I'd finished working with him, he said to me, you need to record this what you do. Well, thank you for that. No idea. No idea what I would I ever do it. And yet over a few months time, people came into my life. And I do believe that people come into your lives for a reason. And one of them the girl with the lady was a flutist beautiful noise she made. She knew people who knew people. And eventually I got speaking to a sound engineer and a musician than absolute about duplication. Yeah. Andy, and it worked. And it just worked put together. And, you know, I often tell the story to people that you know, people say, you know, think life is just so difficult at the moment. Nothing's happening. And I have to say to them, you know, hand on heart, just because you can't see anything happening. Don't for one minute think it's not because it is just because you can't see. And then further down the line. They will just say oh, and then out of the blue this happened. But how can it possibly be out the blue because for this to happen, something would have had to have started a process months ago. And it's just the two came your moment of time. And that time, just touched. And that's what something we do as therapists. And what we need to do is we need to get people to a state to a point in their life where they can accept this new information, whatever the problem is, and then wait for the next moment to come along to touch them, that's going to make life better. And that's what we do. You know, life, you know, there's a moment from all our moments from was meeting from you learn about my work all those 22 years ago, there has been a set of processes and actions that I've done, and you've done, though, eventually brought us together that moment, when we contacted. Now, I could have turned left one day. And you could have turned right? Somehow we were meant to meet, we were meant. And that's what we do is with clients, we help them get to a point of Self Realisation, where they realize they can just put this little bit more energy in this resource, just listen to what we say, apply it and deal with it. And learn new ways to help your mind work and help your digestive system to work in the IBS situation that we're talking about. Just allow yourself to do and trust. Because, you know, there's that old adage, when people say, you know, I'm going through a bad time, but it's better to be going through a bad time than to be stuck in it. So it's all semantics, you know, and words have power. Tell yourself, whatever you tell yourself, you know, your mind and your body will respond that way.

Okay, listen, that's really important. I actually did a whole podcast called Words have power. But I Yeah, a couple years ago whenever I did it, but what you just said is so important. Whatever you tell yourself, right? Is your body and your mind are going to respond to that. And I think this is so powerful. This is a big part of what subconscious programming and what subconscious reprogramming I think which is happening with hypnosis is we're basically implanting and you said something I thought was really fascinating on one of our first conversations we were talking about IBS irritable bowel syndrome and you said instill belief system and that's what it is we have an IBS sufferers a particular installed belief system. And what I think a hypnotherapist does comes in and they say, we're going to install a new belief system and that's part of what what happens and you can agree disagree, whatever, but that's what I'm thinking about as we're talking about this and you know, it kind of circles back what you just said you know, medical doctors don't know what caused it. Do you feel comfortable talking about I mean, I know there's at least three areas where we think things get a little squirrely Do you feel comfortable talking about what you might think? What causes IBS and some people

I'll let you lead on that one.

Okay, so I think it can be a combination of things right? I think that they don't know so doctors say they don't know it could be that that time when you had to go on antibiotics for like five months or for whatever it was and your but your your gut biome like got off and then it you know, me went off track and it's like so this SIBO right, this small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, whatever, it could be trauma like trauma to the physical body. But it could also be like trauma in your life emotional stress and trauma whatever. Some people think that like they literally show remember I talked about this on my previous episode of people watched it how the communication between the brain it is a gut brain disorder so that the brain and the belly, the brain in the belly don't talk well to each other. So when somebody with IBS tends to eat, what happens in their digestive tract and how like we do the little inchworm right, how how food is moving through, it could be that so I think like they don't really know a lot of times because I can just tell you as an IBS kid, my first IBS attack did come out of the blue like it didn't because there was all this shit going on. No pun intended, underneath the surface, right? All this stuff that was happening in my life, all this trauma, all this stuff that I was sucking up and stuffing down and I often say a lot of stuff that was happening, that I couldn't digest. Like I could not digest that my mother had been murdered, I could not digest all these awful things that were happening. So I think there is a physical component. I think that there is a gut brain a mental physical mind component. I think there's a lot of reasons why, that maybe it's just the perfect storm. I don't know. But I think doctors don't know. But I was wondering if you've developed over 37 years of seeing these kinds of people, and you don't have to share it. I'm just curious if you had any thoughts of how I think it can be. I just know again, for myself, there's certain foods I eat, that really will make me bloated. I don't do well with fake sugars like sorbitol. I don't use toothpastes that have sorbitol in it. Because I'm like a patient expert. Like I've read all the books, I've done the research in a different way before I became, you know, a hypnotist. So I'm just curious, just, you know, bouncing ideas around. And again, like I said, you don't have to share, but I'd be curious to know what you think. If anything.

I would endorse everything you've said, No. Think from a doctor's point of view. I want to just pull this bit before I sort of answer any more. From I know, in enough doctors and consultants tend to know that the frustration level that they feel when they work with IBS patients. Yeah, we talk about them being heart things that doctors heart sinks. But for that patient, you know, the doctor only has so many things they can write on his script is a is prescription. And over and above that we're on our own. So there's a there's a frustration that stays in the surgery setting. In the clinical setting. When the patient walks out, frustrated, the frustration stays in the room as well, by and large. Yeah. And you know what I'm saying that I do know one or two of the medical profession that basically think IBS is all in the head, and it's just a waste of time and get on with life.

I know because I've heard that I've been told that myself, when you decide to feel better, you'll feel better. Why?

I was a little bit hesitant to answer your question. First, I just wanted to put a caveat in. So all the things that you've mentioned, and I think also, one of the other things is that if somebody has an operation, and isn't it whether it's exploratory or they're whipping something out, then it changes the peristalsis and the motility of the digestive system. So I think added to all the things that you said I think operation potentially could be a contributory factor.

I agree. I agree. I'm sorry, go ahead. Well,

I was gonna say was, you know, guessing anybody to say what causes IBS, in the medical profession, they just don't know. They just, you know, a lot of therapists profess to know what causes IBS, and they will do digital, this is what you need to do? Well, everybody should just make their own choices and read up on the people they're going to work with.

Yeah, I agree. If science

doesn't know, then, you know, we can have suspicions and in their opinions, this is what it is. Right? Well, you know, we don't put IMO on on our websites, do we? In my opinion, this is what it is. This is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we have to be, you have to be careful. And we should encourage people to be careful to know and read about the person that they're going to go and see. You know, your read your bio, and your experience and your knowledge and the depth of knowledge that you've got. And, you know, it's you're the type of individual and I'm not I'm not blowing smoke. I think that's a phrase you say over there. blowing smoke. But you know, at the end of the day, if you've, you've got a depth of understanding and you followed that desire to know more in many different ways. And that's the wide area of knowledge and wisdom that you've got that you can use to apply to your patients. You sounds like a mutual admiration society now.

We do have a mutual admiration society going on. Want to say? Yeah, I want to point go back to that. You know, because people will reach out, somebody reached out to me and they wanted to start working with me right away. And the first thing I asked them, and you and I've talked about this at length, and this is something you've instilled in me also is that I said, Do you have an official IBS diagnosis. So even though doctors don't know what causes it, I always say this is a, this is a disorder of elimination, where they do a bunch, there's no test for IBS, they test for everything else. And when then they don't know that you don't have Crohn's or ulcerative colitis, or you don't have all these diverticular all the you know, all those celiac disease, all those things. When you don't have those, then they say, sounds like you have IBS. And then you get your official diagnosis. But a woman came to me and she said she she had IBS, she was like, I just know, I have IBS. And I said, Well, do you have you had an official diagnosis, and then they shared Well, I'm waiting to see a gastro because I had had gotten gallbladder removed. And so we know, like, you just said that when a piece of you now goes missing, that plays a role in digestion, things can get a little squirrely and weird. And so my whole thing is, and this is how I feel. And I said it on my podcast last week, I won't work with somebody using hypnosis, because IBS can mimic so many other more sinister things. And we want to know that what we're trying to help with is what we're actually trying to help with. And it's not just masking something else. And that's something that you reiterated to me and have instilled in me too, that it's important that we, we're not coming in with our opinions, we're trying to work with the most amount of knowledge that we can. And part of that, again, goes back to what you were saying earlier that a patient is honest with us. And that we create an environment where somebody we build enough rapport and trust that somebody will feel safe. Like I always say, I can't say, you know, this is a safe environment for you. Because I think it's somebody's nervous system that decides if they feel safe, right, I can try to create a safe environment and try to create a space where you'll feel comfortable sharing things with me that maybe you haven't told anybody else, whatever, right. And I think that's the gift of having, you know, I don't have your kind of experience. But being a spiritual mentor for 1213 years, being a yoga teacher listening to people for years and years and years and years. You know, hopefully, I can create that space where somebody can share because we can only help based on what we have to work with, you know what I mean? But knowing that it's actually IBS is a good starting point, you know, and so anywho I thought that was important to say, but I also want to now circle back to, we know that there's no quote unquote cure, but the power of hypnosis and the power of hypnotherapist is were coming in and so like, what do you think, if you can, if you can even answer this in a succinct way, but the power of hypnosis, and working with a hypnotherapist is the effective reduction in management of IBS. So we're not coming in and saying, healed like, we're gonna cure you. It's not that. But you have seen significant, like 80% reduction in Cyst Symptoms, like, over a long period of time. Do you want to talk about that at all the quote unquote, cure but not cure? Like, people who are listening? I'm not claiming there's a cure, but things that really, really help. Do you want to talk about that?

I think, yes, I do. Part of the part of the break, or the anchor, we can go through life dragging an anchor, or we can use a propeller. Right. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And if you drag an anchor, anybody that is into nautical terms, an anchor keeps you in one spot and saves the ship drifting away. The propeller does the exact opposite. It drives the boat forward. So our thinking, ability and capacity. If somebody comes and says to me, Can you cure me? The answer is no. However, however, the medical professionals say that there is no cure. And the medical patients say there is no cure because they don't know what starts and so how can you cure something they don't know what starts. So if you think of the cure the word cure in that context, they can't say there's a cure, because we don't know what starts it. What sort of take us out on the word cure? Now? The Cure isn't a definitive statement. Because people live by statements or labels, or there's no cure. Well, okay. Well, that doesn't mean you can't be symptom free. It's semantics. So if in your head, the word cure to you means that you'll never have this again. You'll never have a Dicky Tommy again. Then

you just say Dickie Tell me. Yeah. Another Michael ism. I love

Dickie, Tommy, because people that don't have IBS, have a dickey Tommy once or twice a month anyway. So you know, but it's a serious point, that if people live, so look for a cure, they drop the anchor, until somebody says, yes, there's a cure, when instead of dropping the anchor not going anywhere, how about aiming for a direction, that's got to be better than where you are? Yes. And that is part of the process of helping people to understand that this words have power, sort of statement that we both agree on, to engender that to the client. Yes, words do have power. And if you use the words wisely in your head, then your body and your mind will work together to help you to achieve what you want to achieve. So I can help you get all the information that you've given to me, to quantify it, to strip it down to add new information considerations and options of choice in. But then that's for you then to go away into listening to use that new knowledge and wisdom that you've been given and understood. So yes, I can't say well to cure, but that doesn't mean you're not going to be symptom free. Because symptom free is different than the cure. So it depends where you want to sit around the table when he discussed in that word, that a lot of people have preconceived ideas of what's going to work and what's not going to work. And I've quite often told people to go away, and come back in a year's time, when they will worked through their current set of thinking, excuse me, because he wasn't in it wasn't conducive to reaching the results that they wanted. They had a mindset that said it's got to be done this way. Well, you know, it's like, just because you can't see there's another way doesn't mean there isn't one. Yes. So, you know, the people come to us get our take on things. We're honest and tell them whether we can see a different way. And, you know, what labels are people living to? Well, the worst possible thing I would say to your listeners is, don't use the word my, when you talk about IBS, don't own it. It isn't your IBS, it's IBS. As soon as you put the word mic in front of it, then you're owning it, you're protecting it. You don't want to let it go. Don't do it.

And your subconscious is always listening. It's always listening incidents.

Yeah. Anybody that's got children blessed with children. You know, a story, our best not, it might not be the right way. But children take up information. And they can sit and they'll listen around parents. Or I'll tell her story. I had a client who lived five star five houses down the road. And she hadn't been out of the house. Because of IBS. She answered. I had IBS for about 20 years, and she hadn't been out in the back garden for 15 years. And the first thing she said to me was, you're not going to hurt me Are you? And I said, you know, possibly I just cannot think of how hypnotherapy would ever hurt. Personally, I would never so long story. We we worked together and within six, five or six sessions. She was in the back garden. She was going to town walk into town. She was going on holiday to Spain for this, and you know, it was wonderful to see. But my little girl used to my youngest little girl was just old enough to do her coloring in our bay window. We had a baby window. And she used to call her. And this this lady used to pass the House and wave in. She used to lock in every time. And I used to say to my wife, then I used to say, she keep focused on it again. Observation shot for me. No, we were there. We had some visitors with us. And my little girls in the window coloring, and all of a sudden is cheeky, boogers just passed. She had picked it up, even though I've said it in hushed tones out of a shot. So a believed now. So we just absorb information all the time. So when we go back to our clients, we continually absorb information on bulletin boards, we take on board, things that have been said by others, we hopefully don't live those things and develop those expectations of how our IBS is going to be.

Oh, yeah, yeah,

but never use the word my IBS is simply a condition that's affecting the mind and the body. As soon as you own it, the more difficult it is to let it go.

IBS condition, I want to repeat this, IBS is a condition that is affecting the mind in the body. And as soon as you make it, quote, I always call that making it real. But I don't mean like, of course, the symptoms and stuff are real. But I mean, as soon as you take on that ownership by saying, My, then the subconscious is like, well, that's mine, I don't want to give it up. That's mine. Right? It's like, we have to be so careful. And I think that's why I want to go back to this. So how I first met you, and I want to talk about your book too, because you just mentioned your data. And I know that the title of your book that's coming out in 2024 has to do with your data and something that she says about your work. So I want to get to that. But I remember, you know, going back to these books, these IBS books, which I first saw your name, and again, like 22 years ago, and I was a moderator on one of the quote unquote IBS boards, as we call them. So for those of you who are listening, think of them like, you know, communities or support groups, right, that are held online, people from all over the world. So, back in the day, like way back in the day, at the time, I was the yoga because I was I've been a yoga teacher for 25 years, but I was the yoga moderator for the IBS board that was really popular. And I just remember being on the boards. And seeing and this is not I want to be very clear. This is not a judgment of anybody. There might be people who live alone, there might be people who feel alone, there might be people who, that's where they get their support. But this is just me being honest, what I saw again and again and again and again on those boards was way more harmful than helpful. Because it was like a reconditioned hearing again and again and again how bad it is how it's not getting better how there's no hope in sight. Oh my god, and it was just like feeding this fear monster. And it was just so I literally just stopped. I was like, I have to get out of here. Like save yourself. I might because it felt like because I know like, I want to be around people. I'm a Solutions person. I love problem solving. Right? I just love it. But I'm looking for what helps. I don't I call it sitting in the shitty diaper. I'm like, I'm not interested in sitting in this shitty day. But like, I want to clean up my act. I want to figure stuff out. And I think of it like I described it this way. On my podcast last week, I was a person who was on fire. Okay, intestines on fire. And I got out of the burning building. And I found the tent where they were handing out snacks and IBS recordings and water and I had a blanket and I took some time and I healed and I got some experience and I got some of my own wisdom I trained right I became a hypnotist and I mentored with you and trained with you and all this stuff. Now I'm running back with buckets of water for the people who are still on fire. But if I just stayed in the burning building with all the other people on fire, it would not have ended well, I because I was like that woman you described a woman who almost became housebound, and for somebody who's listening, maybe you didn't listen to my other episode if you're just listening to this, that happens to A lot of IBS people because they get bathroom anxiety. And they feel like they have to know where all the bathrooms are. And they they can't let in this just like this cycle, this cycle and this is what you're saying words have power. And if we keep saying, oh my god, what if I call it what ifs where he is, in worst case scenarios, that is the IBS sufferers like, favorite playlist? Not on purpose. It just is what if what if I have to go to the bathroom? What if there's nobody? What if this happens, and you become so paralyzed with anxiety and fear, and discomfort and suffering and pain? I mean, it's just awful. So that this woman didn't leave her house for that long of a time. It's just it just heartbreaking to me. It's just heartbreaking to me. But I know because I got close to being like, not not like that I didn't leave my house. But getting to the point where I was almost like housebound with that anxiety of like, Oh, my God, what if, but, like you, you persevered, I persevered. And, and so I think it's really fascinating that my desire to help is because like you, I think I've always been a helper, I love to help. But I'm kind of coming at it from that point of view, or I was an IBS sufferer. And yes, I still have flare ups. I still have attacks occasionally. But like who doesn't? Who doesn't have tummy trouble trouble once in a while, like you said, and mine is more situational now. And this, this podcast isn't about me. But I find it fascinating that you not having IBS, you were still just as passionate as somebody who had maybe a different reason, like my reasoning, it seems these but different. So I really admire the fact that at a time when so many people were suffering, and so many people were just throwing up their hands, that you stepped in and said, I'm going to figure out a way to help. Like, that's a really big deal. I don't know if enough people I mean, I'm sure you hear all the time. How many times Michael, have you heard, oh my god, you changed my life. Oh my god, you saved my life. Oh, my God. My life is so different so many times. Yeah, it's a big deal. And it's so funny because people think of IBS as being inconsequential. But it affects people's quality of life, their sex life, their relationship life, their travel life, their professional life, because people won't take certain jobs because I might have to travel or I might be stuck behind a cash register. Like, I can't go to jury duty because what if I have to go to like, it really changes your quality of living. So it's a really big deal that somebody's like, you stepped forward, and you created the IBS audio 100 That you did all these trials that you I mean, you so talk about this. So you're so fancy and so fantastic that the Queen is like, let's reward this guy. That's a big deal. Don't you think?

It was a good day out? That's for sure. It was a high, there was a highlight. It was a highlight of my

All right. So now now I think it's okay to say this now you're 66 You've been doing this a wicked long time. Your sweetie is also incredibly gifted. Like you can I'll let you speak about about Katie about Katherine. And so you guys, is it okay to talk about your dreams and where you're going. I mean, you've established yourself hugely in the IBS field. Again, that's why I sought you out. And let's just talk about that for a second. And then we'll get to you and Katherine and the book and where we're going now. But you've been helping people for so long do this, you also help people like me who want to specialize in IBS. So people who are already in the field, and they're like, hey, I really want to, because we know that. I mean, we it's so hard to pin down the statistics because I've heard one in four people have it one in five people have it one in seven people have it. I've heard 10% to 20% 15%. So I always say between 10 and 20% of people between one or five or so. But so if you're in a room, there's a good chance that a bunch of other people in that room if you're in a crowded room, a bunch of other people also have it. Okay. So, you've been helping all these people. You've been helping people like me who want to specialize in it. Okay, wait, hold on, my brain is drawing a blank. Oh, so what was so fascinating about how you and I met is that I literally in my head, I'm like Michael Mahoney. He's like the God I didn't I'm not even being fresh. I'm like, I don't know if he's still alive. I was like, I know. I'm like, I don't know if I you know what I mean? Like I I became aware of you 22 years ago, I started your hypnosis tapes. And this is important. This is important. I became aware of you when they were cassette tapes. Okay, then they became CD These, and that's when I ordered them when they were CDs. And then they became just mp3. Okay. But here's the thing. I the first time through, I got them oh yeah, I was so desperate to change, but I got them. And you know what I didn't do the program all the way through the very first time I did not the very first time I didn't do them all the way through. And I'm saying this because I want people who are suffering to hear me, you have got to play a part a proactive part in your own healing. Michael could create all the audio things in the world I could have, we could have Michael could have sessions. But if you're not willing, again to pull up your anchor, and start using your propellers, nothing's going to change. And so I was my own worst enemy, I could not get out of my own way I didn't have the patience. my nervous system didn't have the ability to be still long enough to be like, oh, yeah, this is like a three month process. Because it's not a quick fix. Not saying that they won't have results, they won't start to feel differently right away. But this is a process. And I think it's important to say that. And so I'm just calling myself out because I know other people will say they want to change. And then they'll get the tools or the information. And that's why you said, this is why we do an initial consultation also in the beginning, because I don't want to waste anybody's time or their money. And I don't want to waste my time. Because time for us is money. So I know that you also are like we're kind of seeing if this is a good fit, or if this protocol is a good fit for people that was just important for me to say, Okay, so here we are, I am like, I want to specialize in IVs. Right, I'm like, I'm ready, like, let's go. And I'm like, there's only one person I would want to learn. But it didn't seem like it was possible. So I went and bought like all these little like, you know, this all of these hypnotherapist who create these little courses. And I watched that and I'm literally like, because I'm an educated to Alright, I've been a teacher for a really long time. And I'm like, these suck. I'm not trying to be mean. But I'm like these suck. These are not very helpful. And I don't know how I'm supposed to take this. I'm not saying every single part of it sucked. But by and large, I'm like, this is not really helpful for me. And then I got this crazy idea. And I'm like, what if I reach out to the godfather? I reached out to the grandfather. And I could not believe it. When I when I found you. And I'm like he's still alive. He's alive. No alive. He's still practicing. And I sent Helen I said, sent your wonderful helper, right? Your support person, your sidekick, I send her a little thing. And lo and behold, you were like, open to mentoring me and I'm like, holy shit. It was just like, so kismet, like you said the pointing the bringing the two it was just like that moment where the stars aligned. And my listeners know, I'm not blowing smoke. I don't say something unless I mean it. Meeting you, learning from you. Mentoring with you has been one of the great joys and privileges and I one of the best things of my 2023. And I'm so excited. It's true. You can I know you're weird. Are you getting weird over there? But it's true. It's true. It was one of the best things that happened in 2023. And I'm so excited that just you went first. Right? You went first and then I get to be an extension of all that wisdom and all that roof, all that proof all that all those results that you've gotten. It's like it is it is such a gift to me. So thank you and I want to say like you say on your audio. I have to thank Andy Summers right like you acknowledge Him because of what he brought to those recordings. And I have to acknowledge you because what your what your wisdom and your generosity of spirit in Yeah, I mean, I know we I pay you like like it's everybody's like, Oh Michaels just giving it away. We have that relationship. But what you're passing down to me to allow me because you're one person and millions of people have this. So just thank you and say just thank you. Thank you. Thank you for giving me the ability to work in the world in this way and to help people. It has been a gift and it's been wicked fun. Like we have a lot of fun.

Thank you we do.

All right. You're welcome. So after that you've been doing this a really long time. You have your healthy hypnosis audios you have your private practice, but you're 66. And you got this amazing sweetie. And you guys, she's a helper as well in her own right, and you're dreaming of creating a retreat center of some sort. So do you want to talk about that, like, what the what the future looks like for you, and then we'll talk about your book a little bit.

Yeah, we, Catherine is the love of my life. And she's a skilled therapist, and healer. And we've decided that we want to create this retreat, and we're looking for the right place. And we're still looking for the right amount of pennies in the bank to achieve it. And we do believe that we're on the path. And that, you know, we've been through hardships, like a lot of people. And, you know, it's one of those things, you don't just sit in a big blank chair and listen to your clients. You know, we live life too. And we have, you know, life issues and concerns and all the rest of it that go along. But we're of the opinion that we're being led to find this retreat wherever it is, and we don't know where it is yet. We're still looking. But we want it to help people for a number of things, one or convalescence. One to help people spiritually to bring people to God when we can, to help people to recover from illness, injury disease, and generally to make it a safe place where people can come and be looked after. And there's going to be an element of end of life that we want to include in that. And, you know, it's a dream that we've got, and it's a dream. I often say to my, my patients, my clients, you know, if you have a dream, speak it. As soon as you speak it, let it out into the world. And then it will encourage you to chase it. And like little butterfly, just chase that sucker. And that's what we're doing. And, you know, every day, every week, when we go for walks, when we go looking and visiting people, we see places that we think could be right, we have a look round, maybe not so and a time will come. And we have no doubt that we will achieve what we want to achieve. And that achievement is actually finding the place and having the cash to run it as we want to run it. But then we start again, you know, we start our next chapter of helping to heal and soothe and to bring people in and to nurture them and help them to feel good in mind, body and spirit. And that's our dream. Yeah,

I love it. So what I'm hearing is that Your Will you be part of the practitioners meaning you're combining both of your gifts, all of your gifts to to, you know, be part of the healing process. So it's not like you're just gonna buy the place, quote, unquote, administer, like run the place, but it's, it's your place hands on, where you want to create. Again, I think we're coming to the four levels of healing again, this is the mental, the emotional, the physical and the spiritual, a place that is holistic, and I always say happy, healthy, healed, whole and holy. And that's what this feels like, you know, it's a place and I already told you I'm like, if you guys just start again, take it or leave it I'm not telling you what to do. But even if you just started, like find a place to rent, even for like a weekend, and you do a retreat experience where people could come to you and experience you. Like I just think people will flock to you guys that's just me I could be ignorant and totally delusional, but I don't think I am I think anybody listening to this is going to feel your energy feel your sincerity, feel the cotton, you know, the the like the congruence of who you are and how you are and that your true desire to help people. I mean, you've been doing it for like 40 friggin years, almost 37 years. So like you and Catherine coming together it's like superpower. And to your point about speaking your dreams to life. There's a line and A Course in Miracles that says an idea that is shared grows stronger. And I really believe so even you just saying it. You've said it to me before but you just said it now to all these listeners. So everybody who's listening hold that positive vision in some way even if you just take I've seconds when he just said it to like send that thought out to envision Retreat Center is a really is a really big deal. And do you find that now at 66? And we always laugh because I'm 55. And you're 66. But that you're moving away from like you're slowing, you're not really slowing down because you're still creating things. But do you feel like you're slowing down in your one on one practice? Is that a natural progression for you as you're moving towards this next chapter? Or what are things looking like for you in that in that way?

I think monster one still has its place in my businesses until we get the retreat, and then I'll gradually wind that down. Yeah. But until that day, I'm still drawing breath. This should be fine.

Right, but do you have a like, like, my eye doctor. He's got like his five year plan. And he's like, already brought somebody in behind him who's like practicing in his practice and seeing people because then he's gonna like transfer ownership, and he's gonna go out. Other people just say, I'm closing my business. And now I'm doing this. So you're still seeing one to one. You're still doing healthy hypnosis, audios, you have all that happening. But it's not but and all of this is now also kind of moving towards helping to create this retreat. Like that's the fun. That's I don't want to say the final chapter. That feeling but that's kind of where we're heading. Right. That's like a little your final

day, you'll be right. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah.

And you're also writing a book? Where are you at with the book? So scheduled for release in late January 2024. Yep. And it's called My daddy mens people. And this goes back to your data. So you can tell that story. But the book is a collection of memoirs recalling past clients and patients over your 37 years in professional practice. And this refers to you said, you talk about if you've ever wondered about a day in the life of a hypnotherapy therapist, and the types of problems they work with, this is the book for you. But my daddy men's people, what's the story behind that? story

behind that is when my youngster was at school. The youngsters used to have a diary. And the teachers used to say to them every day, what does mommy or daddy do? And this day was, it was another questions for this day. It was What does daddy do. And Emma sort of wrote in her in her book, my daddy mins people, and then she closed the book and put a pencil on the top and left it at that. And then I went to one of the parents evening, and I went through the Emma's all the work that she had done. And I saw this page. And, you know, the words were scribbled in pencil, and they were between the lines rather than on it and, you know, less as a six year old might might draw. And it was one of those moments that really touched me. And, of course, I had to say to the teacher, you know, this is, this is what Emma said, and the teacher said, who knew what I did? And she had taught Emma's older brother and older sister over the years. And she laughed and she said, Yes, you said Emma knew exactly what she was going to put. And she wrote those words, close the book called the pencil on top and then sit with arms folded, really smug. And Emma, Emma sort of wrote that because when we used to go through town, then people would stop me and say thank you for helping and can I book in or whatever else and she used to see the thank you cards that used to come in from a surgery when she used to come into the surgery room. I had dozens and dozens of cards I used to take down there start again and used to bring them home and and basically for in the eyes of a six or a seven year old. My daddy men's people and she was almost right But daddy doesn't mend people. Daddy helps people to mend themselves. And that's it. Absolutely true. That's the story. That's the story behind the title of my book. Oh

yeah, I have to drop it because those who are not watching you just miss my total double Amen hand spazzed out because I just got so excited because what you just said is not only beautiful, it's true. Which is my daddy men's people. Yes. And I don't do the mending. I help people to mend themselves. I was just like, that is exactly what I'm saying. And that's The thing is that when when you have somebody like you, you know who, you know, to throw my own hat and somebody like me, who really cares about people really wants to help people. And people will often say to me, you know, you know, when people will introduce me, they'll say, Oh, she does this, she's a healer. And I always say, ah, like, I get a little weird. I'm not saying people shouldn't, they can call people can call themselves, whatever they want to call them. So, but I always go like a little like, ah, like, I don't do the healing. Right. If there's anything, there is something working through me, whether you call that God or love or light, I don't energy. I don't care what people call it, but I'm not doing the healing. What I love is to work with people who are interested in playing a proactive role in healing themselves. But getting to be a part of that to walk along beside somebody on their healing journey. That is, that is a huge honor. So I love that story. I love that story. It made me so I just got so excited. Okay. Is there anything else that you want to share? Or any question about you, your work your business? And we're going to tell people were to find you and all that in a moment. But is there anything else that I didn't bring up or ask that is just like on your heart or on your mind or something that you want to share? And you can obviously take a moment to think about that. But is there anything I forgot to ask you that I should have asked you?

I don't think so. But no, there isn't anything you've got to ask I'm sure. But I've just got to two comments, please. You said really quite close to the start about animals and how you would like to help animals. Oh, over the years, I've learned that animals respond to hypnotherapy. I've worked with people who have had cats, dogs who have slept in my book I mentioned one place ago to was four cats. And one of them ended up on the back of the chair behind me one ended up in my lap. Another one ended up in my clients lap and she was asleep. And the one she ever rarely sees stood sentry duty on the door. But they all slept. And when I stopped talking, they all woke up. I had a lady I went to see who had a minor bird, or a noisy thing that was and even the minor bird went quiet. The butchy in another place when quiet, an aggressive dog. He was watching watching me went quiet and soppy. So when we have when we use our voice in a way that's healing is picked up and the animals tune in watch like I did as a little kid tuning in to people. So I'm sure there is a great market there somewhere for somebody to help calm animals. But I've seen it hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times that animals do respond to kindness and gentleness into. And the last thing I think I will say is that any client that comes to see us needs to remember that they take part in their own healing. And success only comes before work in the dictionary. We've got to work at it. So if you work, then there'll be success. Only the dictionary to success come before the work. So take part in your healing. And make sure you feel comfortable with the person you're working with. And we all have a gut instinct. And we're talking about gut so why not? We have a gut instinct. Is somebody good? Are they professional, calm and a gentle? Can they be believed? Can they be trusted? We can discern all those things really, really quite quickly. And be prepared to put the work in and the time. But one lady that came to see me said she brought up her children through the bathroom door. So when they listen to the recordings, that might be 20 minutes, 25 minutes. That's no, that's the same amount of time that she used to spend behind the bathroom door plus more. So when they come to see you and you give them whatever recordings you give, then if they put in the time and the the effort, and really the effort is laying quietly or sitting quietly and doing nothing. So that's the effort you've got to do,

sorry, go ahead, allocate,

allocate some time, make your recordings and your learning part of your day. And you'll find really quite quickly, this huge problem, like any problem, if it's broken down, and it's structured, to bring some relief, if the relief is a structured process, then you can have faith in that process, because we live in by structural, every day of the week. So, go with the structure, go with your learning. And don't worry about oh, hope you've got off. And don't worry about wherever you go, sorry, sorry, I pressed the wrong button, I do apologize. And just don't, don't rush things. Because it takes time. And you know, if you allow yourself some time not to rush, trust the person you're working with, work with them, and look forward to feeling better.

That's a big part of it, looking forward to feeling better. And knowing that and as part of it, right, believing that it can get better, you can feel that's a big part of it. And anybody who's listening, you can hear like when Michael talks, like I bet a bunch of people, their nervous systems are just going like, I don't know. Because you do, you're very you know how to use your voice, you have a fantastic accent. It's just so calming. And I have so many thoughts about the animal stuff. But I don't want to end the show on that. So I'll talk to you about that privately. But I already I already own like hypnosis for dogs hypnosis for cats.com Hypnosis for pet. Because I'm determined, I'm determined. I know that there's a market for this. And I know there's other techniques and stuff out there. But as a yoga teacher, etc, I have my own experience of how animals are drawn to whenever you put out a yoga mat when the energetics of what's happening, right. So I love that you said that, and thank you for like, just the way that you remembered it because I said it was important to me just again, shows me who you are. So thank you so much for that. And everything you said at the end about, you know, trusting the person, trusting the process, knowing that it takes time, all of these things, what I love about the way that you work, the way that I work in the way that you continue to teach me to work. And I also might I have, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention my other fabulous mentor, Melissa tears and the way that she's taught me to work. It's that this this in particular, because most people by the time that it comes to us, they've had IBS for a wicked long time. And it is a process to unlearn I think about hypnosis in so many ways is unlearning a way of being you know, and we have been conditioned in a very particular way. So it does take a little bit of time. And I always say like, if you've had this thing for five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, whatever, Isn't it worth 20 minutes a day? You know, Isn't it worth going to see somebody and getting to talk to them very deeply and personally, for an hour, like for six hours of of that piece of it. But then listening to something whether it's 20 minutes a day, that could possibly change the whole quality of your life. It's like, like when you just said that about the woman raising her child to her children from behind the bathroom door. I like my hat was just like, Oh my god. So it's a really powerful image to kind of end. And this was just thank you. First of all, just thank you for being you. Thank you for your perseverance. Thank you for your that little boy that was so sensitive, and just wanted to help people. Thank you for following your curiosity and seeing that ad in the paper and being like, I'm going to try this. Thank you for pushing back against all the fucking people who've told you no, and wouldn't help you. And wouldn't you know what I mean? And you just kept saying, screw it, I'm going to mortgage my house, I'm going to do this, you kept going and going and going, building your own body of proof about what you were creating that it worked and that it helped and that you know how to do this. And I know that you've trained a bunch of people, right like I know that like you again, you are the OG as they say you are the original to me. I don't think anybody else was doing this before you and just the way that you have changed so many people's lives and have changed the world through you just being you. I mean, it's it's so phenomenal and it's so inspirational and just thank you so much and I feel so lucky. You know to mentor with you and learn from you and To, you know, take take these brilliant protocols and to interweave them into, you know, the the work that I do and I'm just so excited. I think 2024 is going to be wicked fun. I can't wait for your book also. And so how people How will people be able to get that book? Like, where can people find you and stuff? You want to tell them how to?

Yeah, yeah, I think you'll be on Amazon. Hopefully it'll be on Amazon by then. And it may be on the on the website and might do a website for it. My daddy amends people.com. Yeah. And put certainly it'd be on Amazon.

Okay. And just to find you personally, I know you have Michael Is it Michael mahoney.com. But you're that's

the that's your Michael Mahoney Hypnotherapist? Oh,

okay. Michael Mahoney hypnotherapist.com. And then there's the healthy hypnosis audios. That's dot com as well. Right. Healthy audio hypnosis dot o healthy audio hypnosis.com. Okay. So all right, Michael, this has been a total blast. Thank you so much for joining me. I can't wait to hear this. And I always end anything else you want to say before I do my closing.

Thank you for having me.

I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, I it was a pleasure. And I'm so happy for people to get to meet you. So I think the work you're doing in the world is incredible. So I end every show with some version of wherever you go. Wherever you go, may you leave yourself, the people, the animals, the places the environment better than how you found it. Wherever you go. May you being there have been a blessing. Bye bye