What Is Grief, How To Uncover It & Steps To Resolve It with Ant Marino & Ian Hawkins

Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back, you've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it, and what to do next. Before we start by one request, if any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the and Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this work, I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it.

So in this podcast, I actually get interviewed by one of my longtime clients who is not only now a coach himself, but has his own podcast. And he asked me a question that I've never really been asked before. And that was, what is grief. And thankfully, I was able to answer that immediately. And in a way that I hadn't really thought about. So it just kind of flowed out of me. Anyway, I'm excited to share this one with you. Because it's an interview I haven't done in this format before. And from someone who's experienced doing a lot of work with me. So we got to dive into a lot of the conversations that him and I had had previously around grief about what it is, how you find it, and then how you resolve it so you can move forward. So enjoy and always given on the other side of the mic. Love to hear feedback. Thank you for those people who have been sending in their feedback. I really appreciate it. Speak to you soon. Enjoy.

Ant Marino 2:08

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Ant Merino podcast. I finally have my life coach in Hawkins on the podcast. And the reason this has taken so long to come to fruition is that he lives in Sydney, and I was living in Melbourne, but I'm currently moving to Queensland, and doing a road trip on the way up and have decided to stop in and talk to him and everything like that. So I'm in introducing Ian Hawkins to you guys. So Ian Hawkins is the founder of the Grief Code. And he helps people heal unknown and unresolved grief through unlocking people's Grief Code. He is also a host of the grave code podcast, which has just ticked over 100 episodes. So that is a massive, massive achievement. Very inspirational to me. And yeah, welcome to the podcast, mate.

Ian Hawkins 3:13

Thank you. Great to be here.

Ant Marino 3:14

Yeah. Great to be in your own home.

Ian Hawkins 3:20

You said stopping by for actual here a week later.

Ant Marino 3:25

Just swinging in. Swinging into silo?

Ian Hawkins 3:28

Yeah, no, but it's been awesome to have you here. I've had a great week. I haven't got a heap of work done. But still many good week, because we've had a lot of fun.

Ant Marino 3:37

Yeah. And if you're watching this, we're in Ian's office. But if you're listening to this, we're in Ian's office. Because you probably don't know what we're talking about. But yeah, currently in Ian's office in Sydney. And, you know, just to touch on what he just said about haven't done much work. But it's actually been a great, great week for you, like, you know, in business and all that, like not doing as much, which is weird for people to hear. Like, the more the less you do, the more the less you push and try and like achieve achieve achieve, the more that comes to you

Ian Hawkins 4:17

100%. And it doesn't mean I still haven't acted on the things that need to be acted on. But I haven't been worrying about all the things that I think I need to do. And there are still times where I definitely fall into that trap. But I've instead I've just been prioritizing yet like I said the things that have to be done the groups where I'm coaching now the sessions that I had, and then I've been prototype prioritizing us going and having a chat get to the cafe having a game of golf dinner, and it's been awesome. My family's been tolerant though, because I forgot what they look like.

Ant Marino 4:55

So hilarious. But yeah, like the other day we went and played golf Oh, and, you know, it was in the afternoon and we had some business calls in the morning, while some calls of your coaching programs. And, you know, it was just like, a really cool moment where I was like, you know, like business in the morning, party in the Arvo, but not party, but play, you know, play in the other. And you know, how good is that? And you also mentioned that that was like part of your dream life vision. Yes. When you sat down years ago, and yeah, planned out your life and what you wanted it to look like. So that was

Ian Hawkins 5:33

cool. It was so it was a cool realization, because it's one of the resources I give to my clients. It's not something I've looked at a heap myself lately, but a realization that yeah, that's what my day look like, as we went to the cafe. Then we did whatever work needs to be done, did some coaching. And then we play golf where the dinner? I think I wanted for much more than that when I was doing my perfect day way back when so that's cool.

Ant Marino 5:56

Yeah. Amazing. And talking about way back, when can you tell? Can you tell me and tell the listeners a little bit about your story and how you got to helping people overcome their grief?

Ian Hawkins 6:10

Yeah, absolutely. So I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. And I did a teaching degree because it was PE and I was actually probably third on my list. I wanted to do sports journalism and what I wanted it to be sport, right. And apart from that, I didn't know what I wanted to do. So the the whatever, because I didn't do a great deal of study whatever course I got into I would do so I ended up fate took me to Sydney University to do human movement education. And my first practice Teaching with Primary School was cool, but when I did the high school, I'm like, oh, no, this is not for me. Because to be teaching, not only PE but you know, ye eight year nine year 10 kids around sex education and personal development. And as a as a shy and a really a young fella lacking in confidence, like artistic practice, torture. And so then I went into TV, like randomly got a job I once I finished uni and TV, and then I just drifted. We're talking about this yesterday, and you said, Oh, man, your your ad job for a long time, because I was at Fox Sports for 18 years. Again, the sports theme continues. And also in the N, H couple years, where I get restless of not getting paid enough and not getting fulfilled enough, I get a change a job or I'd get a pay rise. And that would just be enough to keep me there. And then 2005, my dad passes away, and wasn't sudden, but it was like he'd been sick for a while. But I don't think any of us really knew how sick and I talked about this a lot in my story is that and he came to the door, just outside from just here where we're sitting in the office, and he must have been dropping something off for I can't remember what it was, but it was just him. And as he went to leave, he turned around, he said, Ah, you know that money owed me and I went yeah, and he said, Don't worry about paying it back. Now. For whatever reason, I immediately knew what that meant. And I literally would have stood there for a couple of seconds, probably, you know, when it happens, it feels like it's about 10 seconds, because you're just sort of dumbfounded. And I just remember just pausing and not knowing what to say and then eventually, okay, thank you or, you know, spitting out something like that. But then walking inside and just suddenly the reality of like, he was sick. And he knew he was dying. And that was I kind of felt like his way of telling me that that was the case. And yeah, so so that floored me and then when he when he passed away, oh, and also because through my lack of confidence and, and my just the lack of awareness about who I was and how to connect properly. I always felt this disconnect with him. And then I knew because he loved kids and he was looking after my older siblings, kids and I knew when I had kids he was going to LA was gonna be a way for us to connect. And I can still remember how excited he was when he answered the phone when I said I've just had a baby girl and like just the joy in his voice. And then 10 months later he's passed away. And yeah, and then how I got into grief like Well the very first personal growth personal development self help whatever you want to call it my first coach I'm doing this process and it was apologies letters of apology so you can release it from you. Not apologizing for them but apologizing so you can heal and um, two and a half pages into the letters and my dad doing this apology letter with tears in my eyes going Oh shit, there might be a bit of stuff here that I didn't realize was there. And so then I started To feel better slowly and, and then everything just accelerated and I couldn't get enough of all that growth and and the more you do, the more you want to do. Always in corporate things started improving there, I found myself doing a lot of coaching in the leadership roles that I was in. And then it just became a logical progression. The actual branding is something that I've only been really clear on in the last 12 months, so and it feels good. Because when when you get into that right alignment, and you're sharing the right message, and and again, from my own experience, it makes it the easiest thing that you can ever show anyone else is something that you've done yourself. And so yeah, that's the short version of how I landed here.

Yeah, beautiful, mate. I actually did a post today about you know, my greatest, my greatest. Not great, but I said, greatest pain was my greatest teacher, you know, and, you know, I help people now with their relationships, and their relationships with themselves specifically, like, at the end of the day. People feel lost, and people feel stuck, right. And they have low confidence and low self worth. And they keep getting into these relationships where people are manipulative, and abusive, and all that. And they, they don't know why they attract it. And yeah, like I was the same. And I went through, you know, I went through that stuff, too. And now, I can help people with that. Yeah. And, yeah, it's a fucking blessing.

What I call the gifting the grief, because grief is not just about someone passing away. It's relationship breakups. It's, you know, like you've talked about now and much I've left the laptop on louds. Apologies, everyone.

Hopefully, that doesn't come through.

And yeah, so that the gift and the grief you know, I only went through that, but but past experiences of challenges and relationships, you know, with the parent that everyone does, but those patterns are repeat. And yeah, what a blessing that, that now you're able to help other people because of everything that you've overcome. And that everything that you've done for yourself, and, like, you know, I'm biased, and because we've worked together for so long now, but at like, I'm honored to work with you. But I'm also so proud of how far you've come because it's a joy to watch. And, and I hope you're proud of yourself to me, because I am,

I am proud and I and I appreciate your words, appreciate your words, and appreciate the work that you do. Because you've helped me get to where I am, you know, and then the grow, you grow. And the more that you grow, the more that you can teach other people. And, you know, it's just, it's just helped me along the way, you know,

yeah. And for the listeners, like, you don't necessarily have to have this idea of having a business or even helping in any grand scale, the more you can heal yourself, and the more you can continue to grow, that's going to have a positive impact on how you feel about yourself. And that's going to ripple out to the most important people in your life. So starting there, because of the benefit it's going to give you in your family life and your close relationships, and just again, how you feel within yourself, then that in itself is just gold and worth every moment that you invest in yourself.

Yeah. 100% 100%. So, this could be a pretty simple question. But I think it's complex. Like what is grief?

Good question. Yeah. So to me, it's the emotional and well, at every level, physical, mental and emotional, spiritual impact of an event in your life that cause you pain. And the grief is the ongoing impact of that. And, again, people look at grief and they think about the familiar elements of grief. But we all experienced grief from quite a young age, we all have these moments of pain. Now for me, I used to have this reoccurring dream and it wasn't until I started this work that I realized what what that recurring dream was was actually in the womb, there was these noises like a thumping noise that used to slow down speed up, but I could never see any any pictures or color was like a really dark, maybe little bits of light. And I'm like, Ah, it's my mom's heartbeat as she's experiencing stress or anxiety or whatever else and Marina couldn't say anything because he's my memory of it is through a dark, you know, a darkness inside the womb and little specks of gray or light where I guess some light shines through and And so that's where the gray started for me. And then going through those younger years, you can't help but be influenced by the significant people in your life because they're doing the best they can with everything that they've experienced. And if you think back to generations going through wars, world wars, and then another generation through depressions, and all those sorts of things, and if you think about what we've been through the last couple of years as well, like the grief upon the grief, like more of that impact on the holistic part of you, all of those levels, and for me, particularly around the emotional, because that's as a really sensitive and sensory and emotional sort of person. That's where it had the biggest impact. But it depends on your own experience. They had the answers the question,

yeah, for sure. So what I basically got from that was, there's not necessarily like grief isn't necessarily around, losing, you know, a family member or mate. You know, stuff like that. But it can be like, obviously, it can be that, and that's a big thing. But also, you know, traumatic events throughout your life is also you accumulate growth through that

100%. And something you said just recently, you said you had this realization is that when you healed from something, and you notice you went to that next level of growth, you realize that there was grief, because there's that old version of you had died. And, and yeah, so growth creates grief, too. But the beauty of that is, is that because you're going through it, you're releasing it, you're releasing that old part of you as well. So when you're on that, forward momentum, forward trajectory, and you've and you're continuing to release and grow, you can't help but improve things. And, again, that's like, why we do what we do, because we know the benefit of can have on people's lives because we've again, we've lived it.

So you mentioned something about aid having an effect holistically on people's lives. What effects does that look like? Like? How can it show up?

Well, I'll start with how it showed up for me. So I was a people pleaser. We talked about it this week as well, recovering control freak. They're all patterns of behavior that had come from me dealing with that grief at a really young age where you just build up these patterns of behavior to your tiny mind does the best to deal with whatever's thrown at you. And so as a people pleaser, that used to play out for me, and just I used to get just so these moments of angst in the pit of my stomach. Oh, why did you do that? Why did you say that? Because I was running around trying to keep everyone happy. And I was keeping no one happy Least of all myself. Physically, I used to carry it within my body. So from probably about sort of late teens, early 20s, late 20s, shoulders, countless injuries in sport that just seemed to compile on each other or compound on each other, my back. So when I finally got my back healed went to a couple of different chiropractors and a number of other modalities, but they were undoing all these compromises that the muscles around were spotted build up, because each time they went through a moment of grief and you know, more more clamping down of those muscles to protect different parts of me. And what I've learned now is that each part of the body represents a different element of grief, or a different element of unresolved or unknown patterns there. And that's how I held mine. For some people, they might hold it as weight, because they're literally carrying everybody else's stuff. Sometimes it shows up as a different illness. So that's, that's sort of physically and, like, for me, I used to get attention from getting injured. So that was something that again, through a pattern of learning from my childhood. Emotionally, I was blocking emotions, because most of us from from our generation are around that sort of generation. We're taught with messages, like, don't be sad, don't be angry, don't be upset.

If you're a guy, don't be soft, that'd be a pussy. That'd be a wash all of those different things. So while our body naturally plays out with these emotions, to show us what's good, what's bad, and what's in between. We've got this programming within us, that's telling us that that's not okay. And so this whole contradiction again, they can cause tension in the body. It can, it can mess with our emotions, and then both of those things, start messing with your mental state. you overthink things, you procrastinate, you get overwhelmed, you get anxious, all of those things and that's a spiral downwards. And that was really interesting. A kinesiology was telling me five years ago that that I had a whole heap of different wishing he had to release from me. And what really like I've had depression, I guess you've been dealing with this with, with this from from quite a young age. And I'm like, How can that be so well, because it did start at a young age you've just got really really good at dealing with it was fascinating. But not everyone has had that experience and for someone that's dragging down deeper and and then the spiritual side. So I grew up in a in a church going family and Christian upbringing. And so much of that was great. The so much of it didn't make sense to me, it just didn't like I couldn't make sense of it, but particularly the fear and the control and, and so I went the other extreme and went well, I'm just a dismissal of that. So I lost my connection to a higher power to my higher self. And my intuitive abilities which have been there since from a young age, I can remember as a kid, like, I can still remember the moment Halley's comet was within town. So once every eight years, or whatever it is, we went to see it. And I remember going on the car at night, I'm getting tingles. Now, as I tell this story, looking up at the stars and going, what is this world that we live in, and just my whole body just getting goosebumps and tingles. And I know now that's confirmation of that that's a message from from spirit, or source or God or the universe, however you want to look at it. To confirm that, yeah, there's so much more out there than what you can imagine. Yeah. And that led me to be fascinated all those skeptics. I didn't believe in certain things, but I couldn't get enough of it. So it was a show here in Australia, great mysteries of the world. And it talked about the supernatural and people with these different abilities, and you can only we only use 10% of our brain what else is possible. So I always had this fascination with that, that area and now reconnecting with my spirituality, not through necessarily the Christian or, or church lens, although I do love a lot of their teachings, but more from that, like pure spiritual connection, and the ability to really heighten your intuition, and all of the amazing human capabilities we have through that. So really, it's it, grief takes you away from your most natural way of being, and creates all of these different elements that slow you down. And that some Yes, stop you from being the best version of yourself. And as you talk about impacts all of your relationships. Yep,

for sure. So as you started to heal your grief, when what did you notice? First about, you know, what area of your life? Did you notice? Things started to get better? Like, was it physically it? Was it spiritually was it mentally or emotionally or in relationships?

Well, the thing that came straight to me was, I discovered meditation. And I was very angry. And because I bottle that anger up for so long, it would spill out into different places. Now, in the past, that had been things like sport, and, and I've said this many times, but those that have seen me play in more recent years would see that that still can happen at different times. Those that have been playing with me for a long time will know that every time now that I get a little bit heated, they're like, they come and speak to me, I'm like, now I'm much more in control of it now. And I'm like, That's cool, but thank you. But then when I had kids, and they were young, like and, and keeping myself all professional and well behaved at work, and then coming home and exploding to the people that I should have been given my best, and I was given my worst. And so started discovering meditation, and finding a way to be able to be calm, and to not react in that way. Like that. That was just such a blessing to me. And a little a little bit of a story about how that came to be because because I think it's it's important for the listeners is when I created my Dream Vision, which my first mentor showed me how to do. I had a really strong focus on on that about how I was showing up. And so I discovered meditation in probably the only way I could through sport. So I just played golf. I'm in the bar afterwards. There's a secondhand bookstore I'd always been a like a read when I was younger, but then all through high schools I hate reading, like I did sounds familiar. Yes, a year 12 final year, you know, when when you meant to read whatever texts it is, and I didn't finish them. I'm sure my parents read one or both of them and gave me guidance along the way. But I'm drawn to this book sale. And I go over there and I find two books. And one of them was written by Paul Roos, those in Australia be familiar with him well known coach for getting the best out of his players in creating awesome culture, Ozzy rules, Australian rules that's it and and also I was drawn to it because he had he had these players that talked about how they did things differently. So Brett, Kurt comes to mind he's like He was known for like he wasn't massively talented from a football spective, but he got absolutely everything out of his ability. And he talked about these different alternative methods. And I was exploring alternative at that. And so I'm like, Alright, I want to read this book from Paul Roos. Now what I didn't notice at the time, strangely, but make sense is that it was co written by his wife, Tammy. And Tammy was a yoga teacher and meditation coach, or teacher. And so about halfway through, while I'm leading, learning all these things that that, you know, Rudy talks about, and, and now has corporate programs, I think and, and that's why I got called into different clubs Melbourne have just won the flag, and he was pretty instrumental in lifting. We didn't he coached them for a few years,

I honestly have no idea. I haven't followed followed AFL for ages. Last year, I started to get back into

anyway, I digress. And I'm reading all these things about leadership. And you know, one of the things that really struck me was like walking like an athlete, they they walk tall, they're proud of like standing in their power. They have tough conversations, constructive criticism, they praise each other. Now, anyone who's worked in a job knows that those things don't happen that often. And if they do that usually happen in a positive way. And why Yeah, man, like, this is so good. And then this chapter Britain boy, his wife, and there were many chapters written by his wife about meditation, and about this experience with her grandfather and having this connection to an ancestor, and a Native American person. And I'm like, you know, like I said, the skeptic was like, oh, man, I'm getting tingles in my body. And I'm going, or I need to know more about this. So I started meditating. absolute game changer. Yeah. And then I read something from another sports person, Justin Langer, the, he was the Australian captain and Australian cricket coach until recently. And he couldn't articulate it in any other way. Except he summed it up perfectly. The days that I meditate, I just feel better. I can focus better concentrate better on karma. And the days that I don't, well, then just doesn't feel great. And that was it for me. The days that I was meditating, I was able to control myself, and that regulate my emotions better, I was able to not be that, that cranky, ANGRY DAD, and react it at everything, I was able to stay calm in different situations. And the days that I didn't meditate, then I would quickly slip back into those same patterns. And it was that important to me to be better in that area that just became a part of my life. Because if it didn't, I didn't like where I was at. So it just became just as important as eating and drinking.

Yeah, right. You mentioned you mentioned before, about, and we've already touched on this, like a holistic perspective for yourself. But something that I think it's important, because you, you've told me this before, and I'm not sure if you're open to share this. But you know, you feel like the with your dad. What actually was going on for him? Was unresolved grief. Yeah. And that's what and that's what actually manifested into a disease.

Well, that's what I believe. Of course, there's no way of actually proving that but from everything I've learned about Chinese medicine. Side spacings, like kinesiology and what's come through there. So if you're, if you're a skeptic of the, the what's the word? That more spiritual side, like something like kinesiology has a spiritual element. It's very scientific, and you can look up how it works. And all confirmed through muscle testing through that experience as well. Yeah. And specifically, my dad died from a couple of things. He had a leukemia, but he also had massive problems with his lungs. Where do we still grief in the lungs? And part of my growth on McGowan. I actually have these Wheezy breathing when I lie down and get asleep at night. Like I've got a kind of Wheezy breathing. Well, that's that can't be right. And so they want to start learning this stuff and like, oh, okay, there's some there's something to this. And so, what I've learned is that there's a lot of different things that have been passed down ancestrally and things going back for generations on on both sides. For those who are open to it, also past life, things that have been clear, and I'll say now to the listeners, what I've probably said to you many times. It's not your fault, whether you believe things that happen from past lives or, or from getting carried down from other people or if you just believe If what you know will be true for you, which is you've experienced trauma is that when that happened when they're in the womb, or when you're one or two, or three or four, those patterns are gone through your whole life. That's not your fault. And it's so important to remember, this is not your fault that you've got these things going on for you that are causing you pain that are causing you frustration that are impacting your relationships. How could they possibly be? You're too young to have done any better? Yeah. And so give yourself that leaf pass. Yeah. But importantly, it's not your fault. But it absolutely is your responsibility that no one's coming to save you. No one's going to come and fix all these different things. I spend a lot of time blaming my dad. It wasn't his fault. He had things happen in his life, that had him behaving the way he has, and no doubt that he gave me a much softer version of whatever he experienced. Yeah, and what a gift for me. But I wasn't seeing that at the time. So yes, it's not your fault. Yes, it's also your responsibility to change it. No one else's

100% 100%. And I think it's a really important like to touch on the generational trauma and all that stuff. Because, you know, I used to believe that we came out of the womb as a blank canvas. And then we, you know, we learned everything along the way, which a lot of it, we did. But, you know, I thought the feet all my fears were my fears, you know, and I learned them along the way, because I was a blank canvas at the start. And then I picked up all these, you know, something bad would happen to me, that would make me feel like shit. But then then I didn't want that to ever happen again. So I built a wall around that, and a coping mechanism. And then so when that thing would happen again, you know, I would either, you know, do something to kind of not feel that pain again. But, yeah, like, there's this thing that people kind of think it's like, well, you know, you, you're so fucking privileged. You shouldn't be depressed, right? Yeah, he's so privileged, you've got a roof over your head, and fucking clean water and food, and you've got nothing to be depressed about. And the thing is, like, what I've learned is that there are so many different things that add to that feeling of depression, right? Because we could, it's a whole nother topic talking about if you've got depression or not, or you actually just feel depressed yet. But there's so many things that add to that, you know, it's not just what's going on in your current life. It's, you know, shit, that was shit that happened in the womb. Should that like, your mum went through while you were in that womb? You know, stuff that happened from your actual parents that they passed down through their, through their DNA, but also, you know, three generations, four generations, five generations back. Yeah. And yeah, I think it's important to talk about that.

Yeah. Can I add something there? So he talked about, you know, like, that conversation, or you should, you shouldn't get this, you shouldn't get that. The other thing around that is that people talk about our, but there's people with a way worse than me. And I want to encourage you to not use that phrase or anything like it, because you're you're under. On, I'm not sure the word I'm trying to get at the moment, but you are not invalidating. It's probably not the word. But um, anyway, you, you are basically saying that, that you are having to deal with whatever you're dealing with, is something you shouldn't have to you, you absolutely, whatever you're going through is real. And it's painful. And there's no comparison by people who are going through the most tough times, if they've been doing it for a while. They've dealt with it the best that they can. And it's not your place to compare. Because you're always going to look at how you're going. If you're looking at and saying oh, they go much better, you're going to be downplaying what's going on for you. Or you're going to be looking at how they're going. And you're going to be thinking that you're you're going better than you are. And really, you're doing yourself a massive disservice. Because whatever needs to be resolved for you. It's important, and the most important person in your life is you. And so yeah, that that phrase of someone's got it worse off than me, well, maybe. How's it going to help? Like, it's a way of justifying you're not taking any action towards doing something to heal and Yeah, so I encourage you all just to say, I'm going through this. And that's okay. That's a conversation you have with yourself. And when you're ready, opening up to someone who can create a safe place for you to be able to talk about that. Yeah. And you deserve that. Every single person deserves that space.

Yeah. And what I've found is that, when I have told myself, like, other people have worse off than me, I've just felt so much shame, of feeling shit. Like, it's like, you're trying to prep yourself up and motivate yourself and be positive, to be this better person and, and not feel like shit, because other people have it worse. But then you just feel shame, for feeling shit and guilty and guilty, and then you end up feeling worse.

Yeah. And then when you do feel better, then you feel guilty for feeling better.

That was my problem for a long time. Yeah, yeah, actually feeling good. And being around people that might not feel good, you know, and shining that light, and then having to dim it.

Yeah, and it is uncomfortable for people in your life, particularly those closest to you, when you do start stepping into that space. And it may feel uncomfortable, and they may feel like you're doing something unto them, or as really, you're just trying to be the best version of yourself. But the hurt part of them, the wounded part of them, the unresolved and, and, and still grieving part of them will feel like they're under attack. And they will, and whatever they used to however they used to connect with you, when you change, they're not sure how to connect. And that's one of the challenges of this, this journey, some of the listeners, maybe have already experienced that. And it's just remembering that it's not personal, it's just that they, they're not sure how to deal with this new version of you, the rope that they used to hang on to and connect with you is no longer there. So they live sort of grasping, and they might come at you harder, with even more intensity to try and get you to react the same way you used to react, or they might disappear altogether, because they're like, I already can't even deal with that. And that's just normal. And I will just say that they, the more you can just own your own journey and grow, then then those people will get the benefits of that, even if not directly. And it's just not important to like you said not dim your light for other people. Because then you're doing them a disservice to every time you grow and shine brighter, those important people will get the shift. And that's really exciting.

Yeah, for sure. And what I've noticed through your group programs, is, you know, a lot of people are struggling all the time. And I've struggled a lot, as well. But it was a few weeks ago, I turned up on a on one of the group calls and you share your, your struggles, and your then you share your wins, right. And a lot of people had struggles, but not many, too many people had wins, some did. And then when I came along, to share my thing, I could not think of a struggle, because I just felt so good about life. And, you know, the old me would have tried to find something that I was struggling with, and not share what was going on for me, especially after because this is how this is how I do it. I let other people go first. Because I'm good at holding space for people. And yeah, I would have usually dimmed my light and not actually shared how fucking good things were going. But I came on. And, you know, it's not that that don't that thought doesn't come up anymore. It's getting less and less, but it still comes up. And I go, Oh, well, thank you for thank you for talking to me. But you know, your voice is not welcome here. And I'm gonna fucking shine my light. You know? And I think I haven't shared that he did. Yeah, I have to start right. And and then I just, I just fucking let my light out and talked about everything that was going well, and how pumped I was. And then you I felt a shift in the room. And people benefited from what I was sharing and share it for sharing my life. 100%

and they were even comments about thank you because that's inspired me because people want to see that whatever they've invested in themselves, that they are gonna get the results. It's and again, for the listeners, they might be thinking like this, or I'm not sure because I doubt myself and might not notice it consciously. But it's like Will I be able to get those results and with the right person you absolutely will and you sharing that in the call, allowed people to go out Ah, okay. So that's where I want to get to. And that was really cool. And it's why given that we've really saying maybe six months ago, or maybe was even longer you were talking about, I feel like I need to do some more courses and have some more training. And I might make you to spend four years learning, being a master in nature, intuitive coaching, yeah. And you're like, oh, yeah, because you would basically just absorbed all the things that I taught you, which is why I can now trust you to take my programs when I'm not there, which I'm really excited that, to have someone in my world that can do that. The other thing you mentioned, holding space, which you are very good at, I did have to laugh, you got to do the session with me in the room. And you are having to hold space from a physical perspective as well. And you're going through all these different contortions as you held the emotions and the physicality of those emotions of that, that either the people in the call we're experiencing or that I was connecting with them through the call. So yeah, really cool.

Yeah. So for anybody that that's listening, like the coaching, the life coaching that Ian doesn't, you know, that I've learned to do also isn't just like, setting your goals and creating your life vision and all that stuff. Like, it's fucking healing shit, it's healing your grief and your trauma and releasing that stuff and being being spiritual, like aliens are uncovered these gifts, and I've also uncovered these gifts. And when you hold space for somebody and allow them to talk, they're releasing by talking, but also, you become a kind of how would you just filter a filter? Yeah. And things start to come through you that, you know, to help them release, like you start coughing, and, you know,

I'll explain in a really simple language. I imagine anyone who's listening to and stuff would have some form of some form of intuitive ability, they will have that sort of sensory nature about them, they'd probably be an empath. And they would be used to having moments where people will unload their life's problems to them. And so those of you listening, you know what I'm talking about, right? You walk into a room, and that doesn't feel quite right. Because you feel the energy or you walk in a room and you're like, Oh, that's cool. You see some other room, like, I want to connect with them, like, they just seem like a lot of fun. And then also, it's like, people unload all their stuff, and you're left feeling like crap. So that's what we're talking about. So rather than being the dumping ground, or on those new vacuums, they're not so new these days. But I go by way back when vacuums had vacuum bags, but the vacuums got the filter, and then the the the drum where all the waste goes, you don't want to be the drum, which is what I was for so many years, carrying around all those things, like I said, all that pain in my back. Or if you're carrying weight or carrying whatever it is injury or illness, you want to be the filter. So you hold that space for them, you feel what they're going through in their body, and you lighten their load long enough, so they can actually talk about it, and feel safe to talk about it. And then they release, you're still holding that stuff. And instead of like you taking it on, it's almost like you pull the filter out, rinse it clean, and be able to go about your day, and they're lighter. And you're as you were saying you're probably lighter too, because when you when you help other people, you get the shift as well.

Yeah, for sure. And the first time I saw it was when I was doing some work with your coach, Capri owl. And we were talking about some fucking heavy shit, like, shit that I've never shared before. And you you were just holding space, you were just sitting there and then you just started going through something and you just were coughing and like uncontrollably coughing and then there was one point you felt like you're gonna vomit. And I'm like, What the fuck is going on with him? Like, I've never seen you like this before? And yeah, it was just like, I was just like, What the fuck is actually happening? And then when I spoke to you later on, and you spoke about that, you know, that filter? I was like, Yeah, right. And, you know, one, one thing is for me is like, I struggle a bit to actually come to terms with my gifts. And so they they can sometimes flatline or, you know you get to a certain place and they're not kind of exceeding like I see so many other spiritual people and healers and all that. Talking about these connecting with fucking angels and like some serious whoo, whoo shit, right? Yeah. And I'm like, like, yeah, I want to Fucking piece of that, right. But I'm also worried to trust myself and trust the gifts. So I feel like I plateau, which is the word I was looking for before. And I'm held back a bit. But being here this week, you know, we've had conversations around that. And I was in the room with you when we were on the on your calls on your group calls. And then I actually started to feel it. Yeah, you know, through your clients when they were sharing, and going through some emotional stuff like I was copying. And then I felt really sick at one point. Yeah, so

yeah, and you raised something really powerful. And again, for the, for the listeners who were sensitive and empaths, you would know those times where you are taking on people stuff. And it might be you might even feel like this. It feels like, like, I end up being the one that is doing all the good things, and being really kind and all those sorts of stuff. And then people kind of come and dump their stuff and then piss off. And part of it is because they don't understand just how valuable you are and your ability to hold space for them and to be able to draw that stuff out. And you don't either. So how do we change that, when you see the value in it like and just describe then and what I will say, no ads at all, you know, not seeing the value and it will only to the level he's up to now, he certainly sees the value and all those skills that he's learned over time. And that's normal, there are still some things where, you know, I doubt those abilities. But it's like, the more you can trust yourself, which then you referenced before. And the more you can trust that intuition. And the more you can realize just how valuable valuable you are to be able to hold space for people and absorb their stuff so they can heal, the more value you the we putting out to the world, we have such an impact in your your work life, your family life. And when you are able to see that value that you bring to people, they'll start to see how just how valuable you are as well. And that's really exciting. Yeah, for

sure. For sure. So I want to go back to talking about the grief, and specifically around, you know, the loss of a loved one. And you know, when they pass away, not so much when you lose them from a breakup or whatever. But I want to talk about the loss of a loved one. And, you know, for you, how did that grief show up? When your dad passed away? And yeah, like, what what did you notice come up for you that you've never felt before? And that you never like I guess you've never had to go through before because you haven't lost someone so close?

Yeah, well, it's interesting. Again, being a people pleaser, worried about how everyone else was, like, I went straight into that mode. So this is gonna sound like absolute, like mental to people. And it felt mental to me at the time. But we're in ICU, right? So that's where people are the sickest of sick. And we're saying goodbye to my dad. And then my family is all hysterical. And I'm worried about upsetting the other families. Like, can you believe that? Makes no sense. But that's how my brain was operating, because I was so worried about everyone else, instead of just being in the moment. So even thinking about it now, like, I say goodbye to my dad. But again, I wasn't like I wasn't properly connected. Now, I've made peace with that. And I now have a deeper connection with him now than I ever have. But that's just this is where I was at. And then all the things that unfolded afterwards was man, like, for the first two weeks, everyone's around, and you want to talk to someone but you don't want to talk to someone. So when one of my mates rang me, and just listened, man, I have said this to him, but I really don't think he understands how valuable that was to me. Because it was exactly what I needed. Just someone to listen. And, again, I didn't know how important it was at the time. But then after about two weeks, everyone goes back to their normal daily life. I went back to work, everyone got on with it and you're left feeling what do I do now? You're just completely lost and that drifting stage that can last as long as you allow it to and for me it was six years. And thankfully I had another one of those catalysts for change moments where I changed but but that's that's six years. I was like, I want things to be better and I started just questioning everything. Now this is a different experience than then I'm sure other people went through but but I can literally remember at my dad's funeral, hearing all these amazing things that that he'd done and how well respected he was in all the different communities in the Church, he was a teacher in the so in the school, local community in like his tennis group, all these different areas. And I remember thinking, Man, if I died today, people aren't saying that stuff about me. Well, what? Now? I now know that actually, I was contributing more than than what I realized. But I was still on holiday stuff, like I was drinking, like so much. And like, you know, things that come to mind was I was really sarcastic. And I would have cut people down a lot to try and make myself feel better. And that's the lens that I was looking at it and I'm like, yeah, if I died tomorrow, what would people say? And I was already in that suddenly, like I mentioned before my first child and, and that just makes you want to be better. And then you have another child, and that just makes you want to be better again, and then losing someone like, oh, man, I'm gonna be better than this. Gotta be better. But again, I'm not wanting to change. But I didn't know. I didn't know how. And that's part of how the grief came was born. Because I don't want people to drift for six years. I'm not, I don't help people with I can't help people with grief in that in those first, weeks and months. But I help people when they're at that point where they're like, Okay, now I'm ready. I'm ready to move forward in my life. Because it's not until you actually are ready that you can start healing anyway. So what was the question? You said? How, what was the grief? Like? Well, the first night.

Like, my wife, Kay, she was like, wanting to make sure was okay. And, and I just remember saying, I actually don't need you to do anything except just listen if I talk, because I just needed that space. And I remember in the shower, that first that first night, just talking to my dad. Now, like I said, I've gotten away from spirituality, but those times bring you back to believing in it. And why would you not want to believe it? I had this conversation with a friend about three weeks ago. And she she was talking about that she said, You know, it's funny when my mom passed, and I talked about a lot of this spiritual stuff and, and their connection with her and, and feeling like she was there with me. And when you're in grief, and you're grieving in those early days, everyone's like, yeah, they're really understanding. But if you have that same conversation with him a year or two down the track, or further, like, most people are like, Yeah, mate, I'm not sure I know what you're talking about. They're like, when you're dead, you're dead sort of thing. Or even if they've got a spiritually minded, they're not really, you know, wanting to think like that. But I was doing that from that time, and, and I've continued to seek that connection. And there are times where he will literally show up and deliver a message and how do I know? Because like, what's coming over me now is just showing me now he's like, a completely overwhelming emotion. And I just feel like his wisdom and guidance telling me exactly what I need to do. And so like, what he's saying to me now is, don't tiptoe around it, like own this. Like, we have the ability to connect at a deeper spiritual level than most people care to acknowledge, scared to acknowledge or just don't want to believe that we get to choose what we believe. So why would you want not want to believe that's possible? Now, I've got grandparents, parents, friends, turning up in dreams. Like, my, my wife, Nan, came to me in a dream is calling out for help because she'd fallen out of bed. And I was so vivid, and I told my wife and she, she didn't speak to me later. My mom was called, then fell out of bed. And she had to call out for help. And I wasn't particularly into all this stuff at that time. Well, I mean, I still really curious but and then kind of switched off from I remember thinking, What the fuck? What? Again, what else is possible? Like that's, that's too direct to be coincidence. And I'll give you another one. I had healing from this amazing woman who's a Charmin few weeks ago. And she says, Oh, who's that blog of your right shoulder? That's knitting, knitting using now. Anyone who knows my dad knows that that him because he's the only man I know that, that knits or he used to knit a stuffed toy for all the newborns in the church community. So how could she know that apart from the fact that she was connecting to him to his energy, to what again, you can make sense of it however you want, but that's something that no one else could have known. And then my daughter jumping on The trampoline annoys, you know, when she was to, oh, how did you learn to that? Or granddad showed me get the motion on us like, what was threatening weary? And she realized exactly the sort of thing he would have been wearing. And like when I say exact, like, he was the only man still wearing his purple flares, you know, like in the 2000s. And the hat that he used to wear? Like, how could she know that apart from the fact that when we're young, we have this incredible connection to Source. And my nephew also relayed a story that that granddad had showed him this thing. Which, again, like, how can this is things that people shouldn't be able to know. But they do. And that's, that's the potential for us to connect. So we, when people mention the word spiritual spirituality, they will freak out. But someone, the listeners will probably be familiar with Brene, brown, she said, Look at spirituality this way, if it's too much, it's spirituality is your connection to self and community.

Your connection to self is infinite, and the depth of what you will find in your abilities and your connection. There's, like, literally, there's no limit to that. And then when the deeper you go there, the stronger your connection to community. And now community for me is not just the physical, but my inner world. My dad, my grandparents, you mentioned before, like, you know, when am I, you know, one of my guides, and all these people gotta turn the show up. So I've had them show up, like, literally, in meditation, they will introduce themselves by their name and how they show themselves to me, so ever cockatoo or I'll walk out the front veranda, and it will fly and sit in the cockatoo and talk to me and, and I'll do my best to understand like, what the message is. But sometimes he just will look to the backyard and and I'll go, are you want me to walk down there and physically ground and then fly off? And it's like, okay, well, I'll go down and do that. And then maybe I'm in the backyard, and I'll, and I'll get some other animal or something. And, but like, again, it's like, you can believe this is a load of crap. Or you can embrace the absolute fucking magic and joy and happiness that comes from learning in this space. So again, it's a choice. Both are hard, but one feels infinitely better. 100 Plus exponentially better. 100%.

And made, I just want to acknowledge you for showing up and in your, you know, authentic, authentic pneus and your vulnerability to share what you've been through and? And yeah, like how you've overcome this stuff, and how you also help other people. So I really appreciate your mate. And yeah, I just want to give you the opportunity to promote anything that you launching, or anything that you've got going on, and you know, anybody that's listening, maybe they are interested in signing up with you. And then also, you know, where can they find you?

Yeah, so I will share what it is I do. But in this sort of environment, I'd usually be shining my light on you because, like, there's a reason why I trust you to do the work for my clients that you do, because you've gotten an incredible talent and an incredible ability that I think I said that to you want to ask you originally was like, Well, you're the only person I trust to actually do it. So but something that you've talked about a lot this week is when someone offers you something, you don't decline it. And there are still times where I do that. So I'm going to share. And regularly I run my free program, and it's called Start. And that's an acronym, which is about acknowledging what's going on. So self acknowledgement, it's about talking it out, and talking about the safe place, which is not actually having to talk to me, but I'll teach you how to be able to do that on your own. To allow yourself to feel whatever's going on and to release it and then take the next steps. So no matter where you're at, on your journey, feeling overwhelmed, like feeling what your life again, won't journey. No matter how much rest you get, you're still exhausted, you're tired, you've got crazy physical symptoms going on. Maybe you're getting the ringing in the ears, maybe it's just a tightness in your back all these different things. The Start Program allows you to take that next step. Now, one of my clients Sonya, you know well too. She's done it seven times. And she every single time she gets something out of it, because there's another layer To release, and to me, it's yeah, like people choose to work with me after doing that program. But it's just, it just is so great to be able to offer that there are people have done it heaps of times, and they've never invested invested invested a cent with me and my never do, but they're just as important because of what they will share with the world through their own growth. And so, whenever you're listening to this, when it first comes out, or whatever, I run them regularly. So if you go to any of my pages, Ian Hawkins coaching on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, or feel free to connect with me on my personal page to Ian Hawkins 111 on Facebook, and and you'll see when I'm running the next one. Beautiful, Matt, thank you for letting me share.

Absolutely my I have to share I have to let people know about you. Because you do such great work in the world and your mate. Appreciate you a lot. And thanks for taking the time to do this. I know you're very busy. So I appreciate it. And

busy but after we just told them we will we've been playing golf and whatever else. But yes, now I've got some catching up to do.

Exactly. You'd be working all weekend. All right. So

I would just like to say I really appreciate you giving me this platform and and every time I jump on a podcast, it's I tell my story in a different way. That was awesome. I've never told in light blue light vas, and I'm looking forward to sharing this in my own podcast. And this is the message I got intuitively guided to share. And it seems really particularly important to your listeners. But I love you made.

I love you to me. And I was gonna say that

awesome. Yeah, that's clearly why I was given that message.

Beautiful. Cool. All right, that's a wrap.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief. Let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.