The Impact Of Family Loss with Carmel Murphy

Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back. You've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it and what to do next. Before we start by one request. If any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the Ian Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this word. I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it. Hey, everyone, and welcome This week's guest, Carol Murphy Campbell. How are you?

Unknown Speaker 1:05

I'm awesome. Thank you. And thank you for having me.

Ian Hawkins 1:09

Thank you for being here.

Now, there's a few different moments for us to unpack here. But you said the moment that changed everything in your life was your sister's diagnosis. So tell us a bit about that. And the impact that just that moment head on your world?

Unknown Speaker 1:32

Yeah, it was about, Gosh, seven and a half years ago now. And at the time, I was a state or regional manager for a restaurant chain. So I've traveled quite a lot. And I live in Perth. And as my sister lived in Perth, too. And I was in South Australia at this stage. So she had been a bit unwell and she actually had had an operation for something completely unrelated. It was more of a heart thing. But she wasn't feeling 100% So I knew she had gone for some tests. But I was in Adelaide when she rang me and told me the outcome of the tests which were that she had, we knew it was probably cancer, you know, kind of we'll deal with it, we'll be okay. That it was stage four lung cancer. And her she had been for her I think is it a PET scan, or I don't know which scan it was that lights up when you know just tell you where the cancers are in her statement was I lit up like a Christmas tree. And she was told basically that she had 12 to 18 months to live. And I remember in that moment to this day, I couldn't tell you where I was in Adelaide, but I remember I was in the street when I took the call. And I remember just something landed me and said I will not be in another state when somebody rings me to tell me she's dead or just literally hit me like a ton of bricks and I still like I get the feeling of a when I remember it even now.

Ian Hawkins 3:18

Yeah, I felt I felt there was like a mind there was like a wave of almost knocked me off my feet sort of warm and then like goosebumps of confirmation of how important that moment was for you.

Unknown Speaker 3:33

Absolutely. And it was exactly what I got. It was like somebody even though I get goosebumps, it was like somebody had pulled a real gales like right from under me my sister, five years older may so had been with me all my life. And we had become even closer since we have been living in Perth, especially five minutes down the road. And, you know, we were just Bosom Buddies, I suppose like so very, very close and very supportive of each other because you know, your family. So yeah, yeah.

Ian Hawkins 4:10

And I imagine that you as a younger sibling also looking up to her and she would have been between those younger years a real guiding light for you too.

Unknown Speaker 4:20

Yeah, it's interesting. I have four older sisters. I'm the baby of five. And Bernie who passed so next to me are twins. So Bernie was one of the twins. And then I have two older siblings as well. But of all of them, and all of our lives. Bernie just seemed to be the person that was very charismatic people were always drawn to she was like the icon in the family, no matter if you didn't like the rest of us, everyone. I was like earnings. And Bernie had, you know different things in her life. It was. Sometimes you find these people that gets thrown her hardship and you go, Oh my God, how did they come back from that? And Bernie always came back from that. And so she was the person that, you know, was pregnant at a young age and, you know, had just some horrible stuff. And she has had cancer. And 30 years before she had this disease 30 years before and was fine. The operation she had just before this diagnosis was because the valve in her heart had been damaged from the radiation she had 30 years ago. Right. When she, you know, and she had lost a baby, sort of like she was just able to overcome so much. She got so much more hardship than the rest of us did. But yeah, definitely she and then I moved to Australia, I was the first one to leave Ireland, I moved to Australia and the other twin actually came to Melbourne. But after 10 years, I moved to Perth, and Bernie had come out to Perth then. And then I suppose 15 years of us together down the road from each other here in Perth.

Ian Hawkins 6:08

Is it frustrate you that she she was able to overcome so much but and she wasn't able to? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 6:19

Probably yes, at the time. So you know, part of all of these things that happen to us is the journey, we go through them, you know, and this side of it, I'm able to look back and realize, yeah, it would have frustrated me. It's like, Oh, for God's sake, how much more does she need to have? Yeah, but knowing what I know now, because I've done a lot of deep to joven. And learned and because of that, too. And I think some of those things she didn't completely overcome, they actually went inwards. You know, and if I look at it, I'd studied Psychosomatics, and the psychosomatic therapy and that now for example, long is where we hold all our grief, or grief. So Bernie had had them she has three sons. And she always wanted a girl as well when she was pregnant at one stage with little Katie. And just before just before she was due to give birth a couple of days before. And they went into hospital because she hadn't felt the baby moving that much. And they put the scan on her belly to monitor and they basically almost watched her baby die. The baby was in distress. And this was way back in Ireland. So she was sent home for three or four days until she went into labor herself. Now I was in Australia at the time and my my middle daughter is barely was her godmother. So my daughter was about 10 or 11 months old. And so way back then when you came to Australia, kind of that was it for life, you were flying back over for anything. So Bernie was going through all that and at home and you know, didn't want to touch her told me or anything like that. And this is purely my belief. But in hindsight now, I don't think she ever got over that. And I think that unresolved grief over the years that stay there for Katie just built up and built up and read the desire of seeing their wedding anniversary and that's when Katie was born on the same day. It was all intermingled.

Ian Hawkins 8:41

Oh goosebumps through that there's so much to unpack there. Campbell. And what I love is that yeah, you've been deep diving, that is clear. And from the previous conversations we've had as well. And you've shared a fair bit of that. It's interesting because my, my dad passed away from problems with his lung, lungs, amongst other things as well. Somebody came here, and he used to cough. Like, because of the way he was holding. Interestingly, now I do that same thing when I'm cleansing for other people as well. So I've found that whole thing and I wonder, one if that's what dad was doing as well, just not not with an understanding of it. And I was kind of drawn to this when you were talking about your sister Bernie is she's that charismatic person, and she's able to go overcome grades, by big stuff that it's almost like she was actually doing a lot for everyone else.

Unknown Speaker 9:39

Hmm, yeah. And that's interesting because I was in our family, she was nicknamed as Big Mama. In terms of like, if you and I were to sit there and go, ah, you know, I might wallpaper or my page. She'd be the one so right. Here's the wallpaper whose pain? Let's do it. If she recommended her latter years, like before she was even he'll show it now I've had an offer that I'm handing the baton to Carmel. So I became there. Come on, guys, let's look at things differently. Let's do it a different way. So I got the Big Mama button

would emphasize mama run, not the beat. Wow, you're just back to that moment. So you had that moment where you felt that message come through of needing to be closer to her. So that and like, was it just overwhelmed at the moment? Or was it then that moment of sort of guidance that you got through gave you enough clarity? Okay, well, let's, we just got to do what we need to do now. Or do you remember much of those sort of early times after?

I'd love to say yes, I had this real clarity at the time, I didn't even know who to be. I didn't like I, I was literally like that I didn't know who to be, I didn't know what to do. And I had a job. I went to, I went numb at first if I'm honest. And so many thoughts goes through your head, what if what if? And what if that? And what if this and how can I do that? And so I did go to my boss's eventually. And I kind of said look, I'm happy to walk but I don't want to travel anymore. This is the situation. And unfortunately, they weren't hyper accommodating to that. And so I made the decision shortly after that, and I just left they were going to keep me on a contract basis. And I did one stint for them. I ended up in Sydney just for this short stint and got a phone call from Ireland that my mother was on her deathbed. So had to go from Sydney back to Perth to get my passport to go to Ireland on a mercy mission. Because my mum was by all reports at that stage and she was actually in the ward in the hospital where they say patients don't come back out of all right. But my mother did. Wow. You know and my my way of dealing with a lot of stuff in is inappropriate humor. And because quite often and with my sister in particular she didn't want people feeling sorry for her. She didn't want people you know pussyfooting around her. So I had some bizarre really inappropriate to other people's sense of humor but with my mom for example. Like my mom's lie and in this world she's out of the you're gonna die war but still Earth are not sure I choose lie there by Forbes Goldwell Karabo WHY WON'T God take me and I go cuz you're talking to the wrong fella. And you know as as bizarre as it sounds, but that was the relationship like I would have with my brother are we gonna get prayed to go journeyed without going to the other village? It always lightened it a little bit, but enough constantly in that bubble of intensity. And we're sitting there and we call it Norland model and you're sitting there and just waiting for a person to die is like no, let's bring you know a bit of something to this. Even my mother in that moment as era she was she gave me a dirty look at it was like Well, there you go Catholic. There's the dirty look again. And, you know, it's not when my sister was so weird because she had had the heart operation. She ended up having a stroke as well and was paralyzed on one side and her mantra had been one foot in front of the other. So my inappropriate humor then was and she found it hilarious, but other people were a bit. My My thing was when you can't even put one foot in front of the other now because one of them stopped bloody working. So I know it sounds ridiculous, and most people wouldn't even admit that. But it made her laugh. So I didn't care.

I actually quite enjoyed the same sort of humor. It's like if you can't laugh about these things, then yeah, what what are you doing and I can have distinct memories of in the waiting room after. After that and past sitting around with family members. And of course it was like moments of tears, but then there was also interjections of humor and probably the same sort of inappropriate jokes and probably you got to know your audience and if it's the right thing for the right people, then who was anyone else to judge how you cope with these difficult situations, and I really thank you for highlighting that because one of the things that people get too caught up in through grieving process. And even the aftermath is, has to be a certain way is there is no set way. And to me humor is such a key element of helping us to remember and helping us to move through things on I'm kind of drawn to what the the Irish people I know. And in my travels there how important that was. It's like a way of life, right. And you think of history of overcoming hardships and using humor. I don't know if that resonates with you.

Look, absolutely. And the thing about it is like I've just told you about that with my mother, for example, it creates memories, because it is sometimes a full stop or a show stop or whatever. And like from my Bearnaise diagnosis before we had to rush for my mother in the interim of that we had all gone to art and we all traveled to Ireland to tell my parents face to face. That birdie was dying. So we had gone and come back. And then my mother was ill God and go back, and then barely passed. And then my dad passed six weeks later have a broken heart. And

yeah, wow. That is huge. So how are you managing yourself through all of that sounds like an absolute roller coaster?

It was I think I was in Ireland six times in two years. And I'm very, very grateful for the learning and the journey and everything I've been on prior because I way back 1011 years ago began, you know, learning to be a coach and NLP and behavioral profile, you know, all the layers that we do. Yeah. And I firmly believe now that even though at the time, I didn't ever make a business out of it, I was always kind of scrambling to make it. And it gave me on a personal side, some of the tools to be able to deal with some of that. Now, I don't think you can ever deal with it perfectly. I don't think there was, even though there's many books written, I don't think there was a book written for every single person. So I think that gave me a lot of the tools and I'm bit of a straight talker. So I have touched into my emotion and little bit more. And Bernie was amazing in terms of, she had palliative care, she stayed at home, she was only in hospital when she needed to be. So like we'd have discussions about it. I had a sister had come from Ireland, my other sister from Melbourne, and my daughter had come from Queensland, and we were all sitting around this hospital bed in their house. And I always remember this, because Donald Trump was on the TV again, why do I remember this? But suddenly, Bernie just said, I want to go around the room. And I want you all to tell me how you're going to be when I'm gone. Wow. Now we were like my daughter, it was absolutely beside yourself because my ex husband had died less than a year before that. And so she was still grieving her dad. So my sister literally went you and you and you and we all spoke and you know down to her own songs to her husband. And then she said, Now I want to tell you how I'm going to be. And she did. And she shared that with us. And then we were all like, you know, Moto but what do you do? I barely say Get me out of the bed and let's order pizza. And the pizza cave and the pizza were all laid on the bed while she sat in her big armchair and we all ate pizza like it was another normal day in the world. pretense

but somewhat comforting, I imagined as well.

Yeah. One of the things I did after Bernie passed as I said, six weeks later, my dad passed away after that I did become very closed is the best way as a survival mechanism. I realized now I had, I was holding on to my emotion so much because I was afraid if I let them go, that you would never be able to come back. It just wouldn't. And I was very fortunate a friend of mine was coming to Perth at the time and she was doing the psychosomatic course stuff I spoke about. And even myself and my partner were having a bit of stuff going on as well. So it was all. But we were studying the psychosomatic. So it's in a room with lots of other people, part of it was sharing every morning, you know, really open. And in my internal dialogue, I've gone no way. Don't even ask me, I remember the facilitator said, it's your turn and then go do somebody else. Right? I mean, I mean, my partner stood up, and he told everything about what was going on with us and my internal dialogue was stopped. But then it came to a point that we worked on each other, you know, different people. And because it was a group of us, so there'll be five or six facilitators working on one person. And I remember being on like a massage bed, and you don't have to hold where your face goes, I realized now my internal dialogue was, if I just don't let them know that they're hurting me, or they hit a sensitive point, then go past it. So you know, these people were doing this or I was holding out, I wasn't letting this go. And I have a neck race here. And I have this ring here was my dad's neck brace was my sister's, and one of the facilitators who had shared a lot of stuff with me, and I her, got them because I had taken them off for this kind of treatment, and put them on the floor underneath where my face was broken. Wow, this tsunami broke, I was the best thing that ever because I was literally holding on to everything so strongly, but I didn't realize that's what

as coaches, we go and do this training, and we learn how to shift behaviors and people. And we go thinking, it's going to be for other people's benefit. It's always the same as that it's always brings about some kind of monumental shift that we couldn't even comprehend. And that must have been confronting, but almost euphoric to have have all that in a safe place with other people who are on a similar journey.

I didn't feel safe, not because I wasn't in a safe place with other people. I think again, in hindsight, 2020 vision, I just didn't feel safe in myself. And because I remember the moment my sister passed, so in our last day, like we were all in and out the house in her last days for the last 17 or 18 hours. We had like a video like so somebody was always in the room with her. And another might be asleep on the sofa or whatever, if she breathed a certain way are coming conventions going. And my sister her sister in law was there from Scotland, who is a nurse who has experience with palliative care and she was friggin amazing. But I remember from me the actual moment she passed that it was her last breath and everybody then you know, went into tears whatever, but they all went to tell people and I just remember sitting beside her in the bed holding her hand and gon it was like this really big slap in the face. And I really jumped into my three or four year old self and my thought processes Why are they all leaving her now? Because they had walked into the room. But all of a sudden this thing came up in me and I just kept going I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry. Oops I'm sorry. If I said I'm sorry enough that she'd come back like really childlike I was holding around God and thermo and I could feel her getting colder as I was holding her arm and to this day that still brings tears to my eyes because I literally had it I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry so like as if I said I'm sorry enough a begged and pleaded that she'd gone bang Yeah, yeah

yeah. Have you you said you've done deep diving Have you unpacked what the sorry might have been about?

Yeah, because as a younger sister, I was always stirring them up. I was always getting them in trouble I was off and they used to say to me oh my god, you were such a betrayed or you're younger you were so spoiled, blah, blah, blah. And I used as a that will say but I've been grabbed your word doubt. But there was a part of me that was I don't actually know what I was sorry for. But I felt if I said sorry enough in that couple of seconds, then everything will be okay. I didn't care about taking blame or, you know, anything, just just just take everything and just give her back to me.

Oh, wow. So you went to bargaining early on? Did you sit in guilt at any point?

I made a decision early on very early on. And, you know, we all have different beliefs about this, that the other, I made a very conscious decision early on, that I would have no regrets. And that I would accept whatever Bernie's road was, whether it was treatment road, or this or that or the other. And, and I made that very consciously because we, as I said, I'd have I believe a bit out there inside the box with different beliefs and treatments, this at the other end, no, no, right or wrong, everything's right for the person that is. So I don't think I had any guilt at all, because I felt I have made that decision. So I went with it.

If you're on the show, you got to be a bit out there. So that's a given.

But I'm really drawn to that that moment you described with the pizza, like she gave you permission to go forward like that. Now, maybe the others didn't receive it in the same way. But like, to me, that just again, shows the bond, that we have bonds with different people and doesn't mean we love different people any more or less. But there are certain people, whether it's siblings, or relatives or friends, where there's just a deeper connection. It's some of those weird and wonderful beliefs. It's like we've been together in past lives. And there's some sort of connection that we we just can't explain and what what a what a blessing to receive from your sister to just water for everything like, yeah. Now you said, You've been on a deep dive because of this experience. Yeah. Did you have to go through some dark days before you were before there was a catalyst to actually start doing some of the deep diving?

Yeah, as I said, I didn't know who to be in terms of our little family bubble while grandparents have passed Other than that, like my sisters have had maybe miscarriages and Bernie obviously had a stillborn I think one of my other sisters did too. I was like this little trick and I only have to walk past my ex husband I got pregnant and then I had a baby like there was no, I have lived a quite a privileged life. But as a whole, our little family bubble hadn't been through big traumatic experiences that my knowledge anyway. So this was huge for us all and for the icon of the family, if you like to be in this situation, that that really tore us apart. So the deep dive I did the eulogy for my sister. I did the eulogy for my dad, and I did the eulogy for my mom, because I ended up just for some hair being the the only one that could because I had this power of disassociation. Now I didn't always look at it as a power. I've worked hospitality since Jesus was a child. And I have realized now again, in hindsight, because you I was always told in hospitality you go in you leave your troubles at the door, nobody wants to see you miserable after that. I turned it somewhere into a superpower that I could disassociate just enough not as a coping mechanism put just enough to get what needed to be done done. And then associated back into the emotion as well. Yeah, and I do I still use so I was able to disassociate or not forgot, what does somebody need to know about my sister? And I can only tell it from a sister's point of view, because my poor brother allows besides yourself, he said, I cannot speak my nephews and we're trying to put stuff together and, you know, trying to put everything in together for the person that was doing the service. And in the end, I said, Look, can you do it? And I did. And I brought in humor into every one of them. I brought if you're

into it, yeah. Well,

I forget the question. Sorry.

Me too, but the answer was fantastic. He mentioned there being that spokesperson and, and the communicator. Now we're gonna get more into the work that you do later in the interview. But interestingly, when you first mentioned the deep dive and and what had gone inward for, for Bernie, I felt this light, it was like a fire in my throat, like when you swallow some chili oil and burns the whole way down. And it's like, it's almost like that in itself. It lit a fire for bring even more of your communication genius. And I don't know if that resonates with you. But it's like, it's almost like the wall. It's a it's an element of purpose, right? Like, go and share the message that Bernie now won't be able to.

Yeah, and I think for me, like when I started coaching this communication queen, the name of the business came up in a coaching session or several years ago. But with all of this sort of stuff that happened, then you realize why you had to learn to what you had learned, why you had the tools that you had. And if you're open to it is and that's why like with that disassociation, if you're open to it to see things as a gift rather than as a hindrance. Because sometimes I used to see that as a hindrance because I was acquitted of the tubular conversation, because I could just associate that oh, sorry, I have to go pick up the glasses here. But when I turned it into more of a superpower to use, as I wish, rather than to live there, that's what made a huge difference. So like the communication queen to me was just a thing. I never knew why, but it has much more meaning of the time.

Yeah, of course. Which, which, again, means you're in exactly where you need to be, because you'll continue to unpack and unpeel more of it.

If everyday.

bluntly, I'd love to hear if you could how that superpower has been to your benefit, but also where has it been to your detriment?

Interesting to my benefit, I think it is number one being aware of it that it is a way of being that you can choose or not. So to my benefit has definitely be I'm able to sit myself outside that emotional, whatever we're sitting in and go okay, and that's how I could write the eulogy is I'm going like, okay, what are these people that are going to come to the servers? That may be no, my sister as a worker as it is that the other? What do they need to know that I can give them an essence of her life? And then, you know, kind of dissect it from there. And I did the same with my dad, my mom, we had my dad's name was Seamus and che short and we had che isms. So yet another che ism. So through all them in. So that's how it's been a superpower. And even now, those things that go on right now, there's some other stuff going on overseas as well. And, and I seem to be able to stand out side momentarily, almost like you're inside yourself and go, Okay, I see that that's happening and how you will get completely caught up in it. But what's the best we can do by now? What's the actual step we can do? What if we took the emotion out of it? What can we do that's going to be best for this person? That struggling or this person that's supporting this person that's struggling right now? Yeah. So that's how it works that detrimentally, I think I was unconscious of a been a power for years. To the extent that all I had on were the different masks. You know. So a lot of people I've been told all my life, and you're okay, but I wouldn't want to cross share. So has this very hurt. Especially as a manager in hospitality I had, like, I'm the manager, I don't, I don't go out and get pestered you guys or I don't go out and socialize with you guys. But the underneath truth of it was that I then felt I didn't have as many friends because I would isolate myself. So I didn't feel I had anyone to talk to. And quite often because, you know, I had disassociated in front of these people to pretend to be whatever they expected me to be. But I didn't know How to bring the real knee. And with it. So even to the extent I used to go back to Ireland on holidays, and you know, I was the youngest, I was a shit stirrer, I was the joke or whatever. And I used to go back and try and say no, I'm not that I this or the other. But as I evolved, I realized going back to my parents, and just honoring the parents, they were, and showing up as the person they presumed I was, was actually okay. And it was the biggest gift I could give them. So I would go home, and I would start shooting. And I would say stuff, and I would do inappropriate stuff just for fun. And create memories. It wasn't about me trying to change them or push my beliefs onto them. So yeah, but it was detrimental years ago, definitely. Because I felt like this the proverbial duck underwater, you know, like everyone, let's see, everything looked great. And I was underneath scrambling and felt very isolated, alone. Like, I didn't know where I fit it in. Of course, it didn't. I was the youngest of five girls laid out on Bloody everything. I didn't know what the hell to do. That was new. And, again, in hindsight, I came from a background of sexual abuse, which I didn't know was abuse. And I definitely wasn't a victim while you're talking about because it was quite present in like I was obviously groomed very well. So it was never a horrific, it was never horrible. And then there was a lot of guilt underneath when you finally found out that actually was on right. And yes, I was the first one in my family to ever talk about any of it.

Or so it was it was like, like across the like, all of your sisters like when you when you say

I'm not sure I will definitely two or three of us. Yeah, right.

So how so when you went on this deep dive is that? Is that when or when did you start sort of realizing the sort of magnitude of the impact that might have had on you?

That one has been rolling, evolving thing, probably since my mid 20s? I would say. And I was always curious, I'm always curious as to help people think like, I was the kid that literally took the arms and legs off a doll, not because I wanted to break the dog because I wanted to see what was inside the doll and how it worked. So it was always the same with people's minds. Like years and years ago, I was still in an online course in child psychology. Like, I just always wanted a wonder even somebody who was a rapist or a pedophile or something like that. How did they think and how did they get to where they got with what they taught? And so I've always kind of been really curious. And for myself, I've always done little bits of something. I didn't know what I was doing many years ago. So I think yeah, definitely. Probably later 20s, early 30s, I really started to dive more and more into it. And I came to Australia, obviously when my kids were young. And then being outside your little bubble environment, you do tend to stretch yourself and start looking for more and you start looking for kind of answers. I don't know, if I would have like now I'd go on to Google and say blah, blah, blah. We didn't really, you know, do that then, and but I've definitely always been looking for what happened. I realized again in my 20s, late 20s. So I had my first child when I was 19. And not that I would never give her up love her to bits. There's nothing about that. But it wasn't a planned pregnancy. I realized that I was much more promiscuous as a teenager because coming from a family of five girls and whatever, I didn't know how to communicate with Ben, other than a certain way.

Right. That's a big one. Yeah. Was that ability to say no, or, or even articulate your needs or like, what sort of specifics of that? Yeah, it

was very much that was the only way I knew to get attention, and to communicate with a male, even though when I think about it, if it wasn't communicating, I would exude almost sex appeal of what I did. Because that was in hindsight, what I knew. Or maybe that was how I interpreted everything around me. But I will get approached a lot more than some, perhaps because maybe it was it was like it was written on my forehead at one side. But I think in more in my 20s, when I started really understanding it and evolve and are beginning that journey. There was a process of forgiveness of myself of a well of course, you were like that you didn't know any better. And, like, the abuse, I say abuse, and yet, as I said, I didn't feel like that bullet didn't end, its natural ending the person died. So it ended suddenly with no repercussions. No natural ending. Nobody ever found out about it. Nothing. It was just, it was very well, I'm only a young girl. What, what what's happened? I, I suppose at that time, there was a grief process, but I didn't know much about that. Yeah. So

yeah, I couldn't begin to understand what what that wood processing any of that at that age did did kind of make me think around whether the there had been a almost natural disassociation, even from that young age. I can tell ya,

in hindsight, probably. Yes.

Yeah. You said, you said it was pleasant, because the Grimmie had been so strong. But there must have been some part, particularly from an emotional perspective that you're just not ready for any of that. No, I

wouldn't have been because I, my earliest memory of it was about three. So no, I wouldn't have been so maybe it was kind of like, this is what I like to do. When kids are playing shop. It's kind of like that. It's that pretend. And then you pretend that this is normal. Everything's okay. But you don't know you're pretending to work on the other side, and then suddenly stops. You're like, what happened? What did I do? Did I do something wrong? Why did this person leave? I don't know how to process grief. But nobody knows that I'm grieving because nobody knew that was going on.

Yeah. Wow. So given you have done a lot of deep diving, have you seen how that's negatively impacted? future relationships?

Oh, 100%. Yeah, 100% I didn't know because there was always that. Living on the surface level is the best way I'd pull it and live in for you know, the excitement of the newness or whatever. And then what how to actually forge a deep meaningful relationship? Absolutely no idea. Well, yeah, it was all skewed in my brain. I didn't know how the hell that would be. And then I got married because that's what you do. You're from Ireland, you're supposed to get by you're supposed to have kids or sometimes in the reverse. And then we moved to Australia and I was married to my ex husband in hindsight, we probably should have ever been together really when we loved each other at the time but then we divorced years later it wasn't that he was a horrible person or that I was a horrible person we both had our whatever's and you know, we can we can sit in a space of and this is what I've seen happen with other people. And is our he did this to me she did that to me blah blah about well, you can sit there if you like or you can decide to be somewhere else. And I just have always chosen that. Okay, I need to put that to bed and I do sit there drama. Sometimes I'm not perfect. Or I've tried to say yeah, but then eventually I go well, do I want to sit here and wallow in this or do I just want to move on with my life and moving on with my life was my choice. So we were divorced, gosh, I think about 10 years when he actually got cancer and passed away himself. He was only 50 years old. Healthy Do you want to go?

On just sound processing? No, no, this is good. I'm just processing how that felt on my end because When you were talking about those past relationships, it felt like a tiredness like, like I've been awake for three days sort of tiredness, like my eyes went heavy in. And I'm just drawn to what you've said about the whole time is around that just that ability to tune in. And I wonder how much of those relationships, you were just grabbing other bits from other people's stuff and until you went to the healing part one, how much you're just caring of other people's.

Yeah, and that's very insightful. Because it's interesting, I say tired, because I had the disassociation of, you know, all this stuff going on in the back, but I would still show up for work, and I would still be alright, but and I would show up No, do 50 or 60 hours a week, and I would do you know what I mean? Because I ended up a single mom, I had to keep food on my kid's table. And, but somewhere in that was, again, this is hindsight and things I've learned, love my parents dearly. But you know, we have memes that are handed down, some beams are to memories, or genes, actually genetics. And for my dad, for example. So getting back to Bernie sharing the pizza, my dad had not always gotten enough food. So he spent his life and there's lots of little jokes within the family of this one eating that and the other. My dad took great pleasure in observing us Eve, and in feeding us and providing us with enough food. So it ended up somehow being his in hindsight again, Dad's way of showing love was to make sure you weren't hungry. Yep. So that's why it was quite significant for Bernie with the Peter, there was love there. But my dad, at least for me, and this is what I've made it mean, I can only ever speak from my own. My dad always had a very, very strong sense of responsibility. So we had five daughters, and my mom, obviously, my dad worked three or four jobs, he was never a big drinker, he was never a sportsman, he, you know, he would work in his normal job during the week, he'd drive minibosses at the weekend, she'd work in a poor, but nighttime, all this sort of stuff. So I think at some stage that I, I now say that I inherited my dad's sense of responsibility, that I was tired, because I had everyone else's on my shoulders, I felt responsible to make sure they were okay to make sure they felt happy to make sure they weren't made to be left out. So, but the learning of that is like, it's actually not my responsibility for you to be happy. But at one stage it was and my eldest daughter has been my biggest teacher in a lot of ways. Because she's been through some stuff in her own life. I had to look at who I was being when she wasn't happy. Because I actually, in hindsight again, and under great introspection. And this is a part that's quite uncomfortable to learn about yourself, because you have to put a mirror of God. So I have to admit to myself that me trying to make sure she was okay. was actually an element of control. Because who was it? Who was I as a mother, if she wasn't happy? This is good. Yeah, that that was a big slap in the face to me. I'm not I'm not controlling. I'm just being nice. I'm looking after I'm trying to make sure you don't realize. But when I do deep in it, I went, Yeah, no, it was about me, me trying to control the narrative in a way so that I could feel good as a mother.

And the parents listening if he can take anything on board from this chat of it's that because that same thing, my eldest daughter, teaching me exactly the same thing. It's like, because because my thing that that I wanted to make sure is that they didn't feel like that they were alone, and didn't have a safe place for emotion, all sorts of things. And just the the rather abrupt and blunt. Dad, what makes you think what I'm going through now has got anything to do with you? Oh, yeah, that's how bad yeah, yes thing I could have heard because it's like, I'm not responsible for how they feel either. Yeah,

I didn't even hear that though. I necessarily, I didn't get that back. It was just enough. So it was just I, when I think about it now was probably saying, oh my god, other people think that I must be horrible. I'm not supporting my daughter, that it was more of that kind of thing. And the self, I think the greatest gift or ability that we've given ourselves over the years, and I know you're there to in is as uncomfortable as it is to actually look at ourselves in really safe space as well. So I trust me, that's, that's the biggest thing I've worked on no matter what, look, I've done things I regret, and don't I'm sure I'll do more I regret. But I trust implicitly in me. And that is very powerful. So, you know, I might love this person or that person. But no matter what they bring to me, they're not going to make me a worse person, a better person than anything person. Because I trust completely in what's on the inside. One of the greatest metaphors. I've seen people say, you know, this one's that this the other and I go hang up, if I put you open right now, what am I going to find inside? I'm going to find blood, guts, hearts, logs, whatever, bit of excess fat, maybe Kafka. But I'm never going to find in in there. Never. So with that, so what is this essence that is me. And this essence, that is me is outside of that body. And that's how I think that we can stay connected. Like I still my I talk to my sister every day, sometimes my mom and dad come in and slap me around here, you know, but, but I've talked to her every day because it's that essence of the being. So when you trust your true, being regardless of this arm, leg, friggin hair, whatever. I don't think anyone can really damage that.

Yeah, I'm, I'm drawn to, like, how Bernie carried herself through that time that you described, like, that's, it was almost like, I'm gonna do this. And I'm gonna give you all permission to do that, too. And when everyone's gonna see that, but the other thing that you touched on, there was control. And again, if we look from whether it's being a parent, partner, and business, life, whatever. We can only control what we've got going on. And being able to let our children go and have that space. With boundaries of course, but particularly as they get older Lago we've been exploring that now. Well, they they're in their late teens have unpacked what you said there a few times myself is like, I wonder how that will look? Because I'm just letting them go and have their space and some of their behavior. Will I don't love? Did I probably do the same or worse? 100%? Yeah, the greatest gift I think now as I'm saying this out loud is my parents once I got to a certain age was exactly that's like, what will be here, but you've got to you've got to let go. And and as you described there with like, what can we can only control that, that part of us that energy? It's such a powerful exercise, right.

And I think the Trust for me anyway comes from that. I trust. I don't mean Ill to that if you take it that way. I'm sorry that you feel like that. But I trust that that was not my intention.

Yeah. And I'm sorry.

No, I'm not sorry. I'm just sorry. You feel like? Like, I probably have a bit of a benefit of a little bit older view. And also, like my youngest is 32. Yeah, right. So like, my kids are actually adults, and the eldest one has already given birth to to you and so like, they're not even teenagers anymore. Am I proud of who they are? 1,000,000% Yeah, even when they do shitty stuff that I that annoy me or whatever. I'm still proud of the fact that they're living human beings that are on a journey for themselves. Am I their soft place to fall? Absolutely. Yeah. But that's all I can be for them.

Yeah. 100% I love that. And thought at the same time was instill as much of self pride or their ability to have self pride through that same process to so important. Now, we've talked about, well, not specifically and not surprisingly, given your story, because we've decided SEIU from the communication but all of this was around communication, right? And your ability to the one phrase that really sticks out that there is time for emotions, and you can't go through the healing that you've been through without knowing the importance of that you describe that moment on the message, but, but being able to put things in place where you can disassociate from emotions to communicate, that's so crucial. It's, and again, all those places I've talked about before, in your love life, your children, partnerships, business like that, I just come back to process all this has come back to the reality of the situation, the emotion can come up later. But this is I'm not having a go at you. I'm not placing any responsibility on you for any of this. It's, it's this is just how it needs to be so. So talk to us a bit about the work that you do. I'm curious whether that does come into it, because it kind of makes sense from what you've said.

And I have a couple of prongs to the work I do. So I work with people one on one, which is usually in business, but it's like what's stopping your business being successful? And it's always ourselves. It's almost without exception. So I do talk to that a lot. I teach people, you know, how to make promotional videos for their business and things like that. But to me, they're all the tools of the trade. Yeah, it's the actual psychology of the person. And part of even teaching video. So we talk a lot about the scripts is the psychology of the person's buying brain, how do we connect with people who need to resonate and help get help from you the most? Well, it's by storyteller, it's by telling us a story. And we all make decisions from our emotional brain, whether we want to think that we do or we don't we do we make it from that primal brain, you know, do I need to walk away from it? Do I need to. So when you tell an emotional story, in video, in particular, because you have all the different senses happening, and you can put some amazing music on it, it really talks to the person and it talks right in there in that emotional area. So I teach people how to reach out and do that now. And we got some of the process is under the bulk of it, and email sequences and all that stuff. Yeah. But it's like anything, you know, you have this. And when you get really clear on who it is you help the most and how you can help them, Well, then let's make sure they can see you. And that's where marketing comes in. And I would say I tripped over marketing years ago, because I couldn't make with all this stuff. I knew I still couldn't make it a business because nobody knew

who I was or who I could help. So I get to teach amazing people to do that.

Yeah, so good. And that's the best thing for us to teach, again, from the things we're all most challenged with to be able to help them find the shortcuts by all the mistakes and roadblocks we had. So yeah.

And one of the things that always comes to mind, and I used to always do it, my dad used to do the same, it was nearly a competition if we were down for dinner, to see who could go to the toilet first and pay for the bill. While everyone else and we'd always do it. And somebody who was a mentor of mine brought it up a long time ago, and it's so pivotal. It's like, what do you get out to do? That's like, Oh, I get to feel great. I spoiled everyone. Yeah, and yadda yadda yadda. Okay, so you take that opportunity away from the other person to feel good. Every time you do that? No, no, no, no. I do. Yeah. And I thought we do that so much in one of the most precious things you can give somebody is your time. And to give them that few moments, like, we have to realize that that can be more impactful than anything else is just being totally present and giving somebody the time and especially in this era, social media and everything and I'm all over social media. But when you give somebody that moment that you're just present for them that's more valuable than anyone

well said thank you, Campbell for telling your story. And for giving us this time very much appreciate it I have to say to when you when you dropped into you being someone else and you dropped into Australian accent Oh, so good. One of the better ones I've heard from someone it's not their native accent so

Australian accent

when you when you were doing the description of other people talking Yeah. So good. You're doing your acting skills? Yeah. Where can people find more about you, Campbell,

just search for karma Murphy on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube even, but everywhere. And as always things are evolving and changing right now there is a bit of a change going on, as well in business and in my messaging. But by all means, I'm always happy to have a chat have a connection. And you will find on a my social media channels, a link where you can book a time to have a quick chat with Rachel.

For some more, make sure we get all those links in there as well. Campbell, thank you so much appreciate you sharing so openly, particularly some really big stuff there. And there are some great messages in the air and for the for the listeners. So thank you.

My pleasure. Thank you for having me. I love when people ask me that. I'll tell anybody if they want to know and if it supports them, but sometimes we don't sit and have these conversations often enough. Okay.

Absolutely. Thank you. My pleasure. I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief. Let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform