TBC with Stuart Mangion

Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back. You've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it and what to do next. Before we start by one request. If any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the and Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this work, I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it.

And we're live and it brings me great pleasure to introduce my guest today. Steven Mannion, how are you? Great, it's really good moment. For anyone who is a friend of Stu, they would know that he posts regularly from down the beach lives near the beach making us all jealous. But it's often in the early hours of the morning with sunsets. And I was really taken by the memory you shared this morning from an old sunset. And that was like that, that read what you said was a dragon. But when I looked at it, I just saw your logo. And it was like cool is that that your logo is now just appearing in the sky. So tell us a little bit about the logo and the significance of that for you.

Stuart Mangion 1:45

Okay, so the reason if anyone knows Harry Potter, and at any any depths at all, there's a Phoenix and in the movies and in the book is named as forks, hence forks financial services. Now the reason for the Phoenix is that the Phoenix rises from the ashes and is reborn in fire. And my view of my past, good breaking up from a business relationship, working with someone that you know, there was a not necessarily have an amicable ending. And it just dawned on me that that just seemed an appropriate way to look at it. But I also look at it from different aspect, no matter where you are in your being a front end financial advice. Now, no matter where you are, no matter where you are, your financial situation can be reborn and, and become so much more than it was. And that's part of what I see my role is is to help people and guide people to achieve their goals through one financial planning and advice.

Ian Hawkins 3:03

I love that no matter where you're able to on the financial journey, you can still rise from there. And I think that's a really powerful statement, I'm sure many last year went through some financial challenges. Not everyone, but having that thought process around it no matter where you're at, there's always an opportunity then to keep moving forward. I love that. So, yeah, so one of those areas where you've had to rise and this is something that we both share, is that losing our dads and that's something that happened more recently for you. So rather than because we've talked about it a bit rather than us going through, maybe diving into any of the pain you went through. Let's look at it this way. What did you learn about yourself? Having to go through that? Really difficult, challenging, emotionally draining circumstance? What did you learn? Yeah, about you.

Stuart Mangion 4:07

I guess the key thing that I learned was being prepared. There's no time like the present. Like this wasn't a shot, there was an expectation. And I sat down when, when things started to unfold. And we were we were looking at the endgame for dad. And a surgeon sort of said to him, I said, Hey, how about we start to get things organized now. Now if we organize them and it doesn't happen in a year's time or two years time, we can just put the organization for your funeral and so forth. In a in the drawer and we don't need to work we don't need to worry about Uh, but if we don't do anything about it, and, you know, you you pass away, then we're just guessing what you want. And part of helping with that organization and, and organizing and getting dad involved with it allowed, I guess me to come to terms with the we are in that end game? Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know when it was dad's final day we were, I was actually doing water safety for an ocean swim for the surf club that I'm involved with, and work on the rescue boats, make sure it runs, okay. All sudden, I see Judas car coming down down to the beach. And, you know, knowing that the road was blocked off because of the event. I knew this was fairly serious. And I had the the ability, not the ability, but I was I was honored by the fact that I had this opportunity to talk with dad, up until a couple of days before he passed. And the Tuesday before he passed on the Saturday. You know, we had a two three hour coherent conversation, which lots of family members never get to have, that that ability. And yeah, it was a lot of conversation was also an expectation that we'd have another conversation, but it still was was that ability, so many people. Yeah, they're their fathers, or mothers or parents pass into, you know, and it's just waiting for that to happen. And they just don't get that that conversation and that closure. And on the Saturday he was a shadow. And before we left before we left, because we were with him that afternoon. I just kissed him on the forehead and just said, it's time to go.

Ian Hawkins 7:17

Yeah. It's funny, when you were talking about that day, I got taken straight back to the day with my dad and the conversations I didn't get to have. And so I guess the lesson is, for people is what you said, like there's no time like the present. Like we have a choice at every moment to be able to seize those opportunities and have those conversations and, and may have some people have seen like, are you organizing all that, but what a gift to give you a dad to be able to be involved in something that was very much about him. Like I think anyone who's sat at a funeral and heard amazing things about people and gone, man, wouldn't it be great that they were here to hear this?

Stuart Mangion 8:07

Well, this was another thing too, the ability for friends and family and I had mates I grew up with. And they said, Look, I'm not gonna be able to come to both, I can't say come and catch up with your dad and come to the funeral. I've got one or the other. So a lot of people didn't come to the funeral, but actually caught up with dad. And got to thank him, or, you know, whatever they wanted, they got they got to have closure. And, um, yeah, that was that was great. There was that that ability for people to talk to dad, and not just be there for the for the after, as much as it was. Yeah, it would have been great for them to be there for the funeral on the wake. It was great for both dad and them to have that to be able to have those conversations. And yeah, I mean, I do this father passed away a few years ago, and she was really reluctant to go and see him before he started to significantly decline because he had a form of dementia. And I said to her, I said to Judith and said, Look, I think if you don't go you're going to regret this for the rest of your life. And she goes, Oh, no, I don't want to I don't care. I really really believe you need to love it or hate it. You're going to have ability to catch up with other family aside from that, but you can have these conversations that you may never ever get to have with your dad again. You as much as family were great at coming together at time. Mormons were great at tearing each other apart at times. You know, we haven't we will have disagreements. I've had disagreements with my brother and my dad, but we always in the end, come back together. You don't leave conversations unfinished. And so many people live with regrets that they didn't get those those final words.

Yeah. Really powerful and amazing that that your dad got to connect with so many people and they got to connect with him that's just such a blessing. And I think that probably happens for a lot of people who get started getting sick. And and it's a longer term illness that perhaps they they're pretty clear they won't get better from is that a lot of people do tend to get around I think that's really, really incredible. And it's funny you were talking about your your wife going to see a dad with dementia. And I remember going to take our oldest to see my grandma who was in a 90s in a in a place with she had dementia, but across a room. From 50 meters. She just cracked eyes on me and headed straight over. She didn't know why. She didn't know who I was. But she knew there was someone in her life. And and I'm sure the experience or I don't know what the experience for Judy's. But there would have been a connection. Because they can't. Can't not be right.

Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was interesting, because dude sat down with him for an hour. He said, Oh, we just had the same conversation four times. I said, but it doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah. And he came and we introduced him to. At the time, you know, Charlotte was two. But he didn't I had no pain. I had a vague recollection of who I was who I was, but had no comprehension of Charlotte, my oldest. Yeah. But it wasn't about me. And it wasn't about Charlotte. It was about Judas having that connection with her dad, even though they'd been estranged for years. And there was a lot of angst and, and that, but it just gave her that ability to have that closure.

Yeah, beautiful. And you're probably playing more important role the two of you there for Judith, and then perhaps you realize at the time, I may not even realize now because when we, when we're in those sorts of situations, sometimes just having people there, and even thinking about, like, even if the conversation was the same, it's just an opportunity for, for people to be heard, which is something that is very underutilized skill, I think and what we wanted to do more of so really powerful mate. So, so since having gone through all that, what what have you that obviously gave you a lot of peace from that being able to have those conversations with your dad and such a blessing for both of you. What have you learned since then, about life that that you're now making sure you're taking forward into your life?

Well, it's really about valuing your time with those people you care about. Making sure that when you have an argument that the argument doesn't just

devolve into an ongoing grudge match. Yeah, we can't always, especially with those that are closest, yes, we're gonna have arguments and yes, we're going to, you know, have differences of opinion, and we're going to get upset at each other, but you had to deal with deal with that and move on and then enjoy carrying angst and anger, the ramifications of all that, you know, from a health perspective, it just doesn't that doesn't do anybody any help. I mean, what is it? What the quote of being angry at someone else, and wishing ill someone else is like drinking poison and wishing that they will fall ill? Yeah. And, you know, learning that, yeah, there are times in personal and business relationships where you'll get to a point, hopefully, you know, you can have a commonality and continue with wonderful relationships with you, your family, but if it gets to a point where it's beyond that, sometimes you've just got to cut them, cut them free. And especially in business, if there's people who aren't who aren't there to help now I know businesses is very different to family life, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you need to do You deal with people who don't want to be positive and see that you do better.

Yeah. So that's a great lead into what you do in your business. Because you do bring a lot of those values that in your personal life to your business, which is, to me the key differentiator to what you do. And you talked about time, because I know that something that and it's, I'm sure it's in your bio as well is like how you give your clients a peace of mind, to be able to go and focus on what's most important. So I love that how you live is how you're also, that's how you serve as well. So So tell me about your values for business or for life and how you bring them to your business. And, yeah, how you do create those relationships with the people that you serve?

Well, life Life is about, you know, experiences and helping people build their wealth is not necessarily about the wealth itself, but it's about the opportunities that they provide. Yeah, providing that you can sleep at night, you know, that things are on track towards retirement, that you're going to achieve those goals that you're looking at. And being having the education and someone by your side, whose demystifies the fears of the the investments that you've got? Yeah, I believe in honesty and transparency, I believe in things being clear cut so that people know what the costs are going to be. I believe that, you know, the education of clients ultimately assist them not to make rash. Decisions be that they make rash decisions in their life, but in their financial situation. So you know, we've just been through a once in a lifetime, or going still going through a once in a lifetime situation with a pandemic. And, you know, I live in us both go to us before we had the global financial crisis, and understanding for clients that when we go through these things, we don't panic, lighter hair on fire, and throw everything out the windows, but we actually sit back, understand what we've invested in and how that potential devaluation has nothing to do with the actual value that the value of the assets they aren't

there, you use that coffee cup analogy. So maybe share that one. Because you know, it's a really simple but powerful way of explaining the situation, I'll grab

my coffee cup. I explained that to clients, because clients have you say you own a share, and they go, Well, what's a shared what does that mean, I can walk into a bank branch and grab a chair out of it. And that's my ownership of the company, I get, that's a really, really simplistic way of looking at it. But that's part of a whole, but I'll say this coffee cup represents your, your share. And every six months it fills up with coffee. Now you can either drink the coffee as a dividend, or you can reinvest it and buy more investments. Now, if you buy it for $10. And then six months later, you find it's worth $7.50. Are you going to sell it? And most clients say, Well, no, I'm not going to sell it because I understand it's for the long term. Okay, all right. You find out 18 months later, it's worth $12.50, you're going to sell it well now I'm not going to sell it now that conversation as simple as it sounds, has actually made a huge difference to clients. So during the reason, the past 15 months, with the markets dropping, clients have had the peace of mind to understand that a we're not buying a, you know, $1.50 coffee cup, that's going to shatter it the first thing we're buying a quality product. And you've got a number of those. And yes, they're devalued. But the key is that we stay to our plan, but our plans not for 18 months, our plan is depending on the client's situation. And that coffee cup may vary. So it might be shares. It might be fixed interest, depending on and that's it. I'll get to that and get that get done in a minute. But it really depends on what the client needs to achieve, and what length of time and it's always interesting when clients come to me and they go, I've got $10,000 to invest, what am I going to invest into? And it's like how long is a piece of string

for What purpose? For what purpose?

What do you what do you want to invest for? And it's also explained to them that when we invest, you're going to get a return. But I can't guarantee return. Because I don't have I don't control it, I have a magic wand to control what the economy is going to do. If I did well, you probably wouldn't be working. Getting clients to understand and demystify, you know, because I mean, there's all this perception of the stock markets, a casino is gambling, well, there is risk involved, but there's risk involved in everything we do. Now, there's risk involved in getting out of bed in the morning or going to work, just jumping in the car. Yeah, having children. Yeah,

that's a risk. That's a highly volatile risk, highly volatile

risk is very, very expensive. $450,000 per child from anyone

that told me that. So the, it feels like way more. The thing I know about humans is that there may be ups and downs, but there's a desire for growth. We all have this desire to growth, and we all have a desire to give. It's within us. And so you can say, you look back and say, well, History says that it's always going to do this. To me, the most important thing is like history says that human behavior, we're all at where we are always, despite our shortfalls, and challenges and setbacks. We're always looking for expansion and nature versus nature. We're the only ones who slow down the natural process, every other part of nature is always looking to grow in the simplest way possible, find food rest, we just over complicate the matter. So So what you're saying is that you actually a part of people's life, you're actually simplifying it and removing the jargon and the complexities and just bring it down to the simplicity of coffee cups.

Yeah, absolutely. And allowing clients the ability to be able to pick up the phone and talk to someone bility to distill what's out there all white noise and everything can distill it down to Okay, well, this is the these are the key things that is affecting what's going on. And part of my role is, is it's about the relationship it's about, it's about the trust. It's about making sure that the clients can walk away from the meeting. And they understand what it's all about. They understand, okay, they may not understand the nitty gritty of why we've chosen particular investments and so forth. But they understand that ultimately, the plan is to get them from point A to point B, and anything in between is, is just a number.

Yeah. And I love that you included that. Because like, that's what I know of you. It's about that building that trust, it's about building that relationship to the point where you will probably doing that, like overly at one point driving long kilometers to do make sure you kept up those face to face conversations with your clients, because that's how much you cared. And you were saying last year, to have so many of them, shift over to zoom has been such a blessing for you and your time, which I know is so important to you with your family.

Yeah, and I still go and see them. Instead of being twice a year, I'll might go and see them once a year or once every 18 months. Because there's I still there's that connection with physically being with people. But yeah, I mean, look, I was exceptionally reluctant. We had been talking an hour prior to the pandemic, we'd been talking for two years prior about using Zoom. The biggest block wasn't the clients, the biggest block was made. And I'm like, oh, no, they're not gonna lie. This isn't gonna work. And now, material costs here, look, no dramas, I've got clients up in the Blue Mountains. And from here, on the central coast, the Blue Mountains is you know, depending on the time of the day, anywhere between three to four hours, so I have to go and physically see those clients would be anywhere between eight to nine hour turnaround. And I generally see them in the evening. So I'd leave here hitting peak hour traffic at tool, two o'clock for a six o'clock appointment and get home at 11 or 12 o'clock at night. Yeah. Well, it is absolutely I mean, and you've got to you got to match the time you're putting in because I mean that's that's another thing too and it's something that The sooner you learn it, the more efficient and some of us are slow to learn like myself that, you know, times, we all have time, no matter how rich or poor you are, we all have the same 24 hours in the day, we all have the same 365 days, days a year on a quarter if you want to include leap years. But

such a numbers person

but the thing is that, yeah, it's how we use our time, we can't bank it, we can't save it, but we rarely eat easily wasted. You know, in the introduction of social media, which can't pay too much, because we're on it right now. But you know, that they has the ability of absorbing a lot of our time, and it's about being efficient with your time. Because if you can reduce your distractions, and increase your productivity, and I'm not all about I mean, I'm a big proponent of there has to be a work life balance, you have to there are different elements, through coaching with yourself and very different other courses and, and things I've been through, you know, balance of life, you get these motivational, motivational videos of you know, you got to grind and grind and grind and grind. But the problem is, so many people go, I will fix everything, after I've got to where I want to go. Exactly. And what they don't realize is that if you take 15 years to build a business to be a multimillion dollar and become a millionaire, and during that time, you've had kids, by the time you turn around to actually spend time with them, because you've spent zero time before, they just look at you and go, give me money, I don't care. I'm going out. I'm going Yeah, who are you. And, you know, work is always going to be there. We all need to work, we all need to make a living. But as a small business person, if you don't remember why you are building the business, and take time to build to not only build the business, but take time to spend with your family. You know, my connection with my, my kids, if I'm lucky, but I believe luck is created by the opportunities that you you provide yourself and opportunities come from, from, you know, the work that you do, or the connections that you have, and also your mindset. You know, if you believe that you're that everything's gonna go wrong, and I'm not going to say doesn't matter, you're the most positive person in the world, everyone's going to have those times. But if 90% of the time you believe everything's gonna go wrong, then you're going to see those failures to happen. And I've been through a you know, it hasn't been a clear takeoff like this. I've been through ups and downs like everybody else. Many you know, we've had many conversations long hours drone on my work under

those will cover some of those.

But, you know, taking that, you know, going down and like going down the beach and taking the photos and posting it on Facebook, but you know, spending time with my my girls, you know, they're not going to be this age forever. You know, and if you don't take that time and you know if you're not in NP if you're working for someone and that someone doesn't understand that family's important, go and find another job in the industry for someone who understands that family is important.

Yeah, 100%

Sorry, go on.

I was gonna say you You hit the nail on the head when you talked about if you're in a if you have a small business owner is remembering why you got into it in the first place. Because so many ended up working long hours and they ever worked in a job. And they're not actually getting the time freedom, the opportunity, freedom, the decision freedom, because he got the focus in the wrong place. I'll just do all of this and then all this will come. So I love how you describe that as you're actually prioritizing all of those things. Now you're prioritizing your family stuff now. And the rest of it will take care of itself right. Really powerful.

Well, it is really is a ability to Again, there's that time situation, you can't get back that time with your four year old or your eight year old or your 12 year old. And the you know, if you don't sit and spend some time and I don't mean, you know, with them with a device new with a device sitting in the same room, I'm actually talking about, you know, when I go down, go down to the beach with my girls. You know, we sit there and we have a conversation, we watch the, you know, we're now getting into well, Susan, so will will potentially see whales migrating up the coast. suddenly gone, I'm looking forward to, but it's, it's those conversations in that physical connection that you get, and it's not just with my girls is, is with Jude, my wife. You know, we've been through the ups and downs. And if we don't have that connection, it you know, it then leads to all all the outcome because if you don't take care of the family, or take care of yourself, even if you're single if you don't take care of yourself and and your connections, you know, that will translate into your business.

Yeah, absolutely. Right. Now, your your bio I loved and you talked about all of those things that you the jobs that you held all over the world. Tell me about camp counselor in the USA. Was it just like the movies?

It's some of the walls, but a lot of it, you know, I mean, like, I was pretty lucky. I got introduced to a camp. I ended up doing three seasons there and was seriously contemplating a force. I got in connection with a great group of guys who I'm still connected to today. We actually had a reunion, sort of August last year, not last year, year before. And yeah, it was, you know, I got mates from around the world from it's the pace completely, you're not going there for the pay. Trust me. Nine weeks for $850. You're going there for the experience, you're going there for the the the ability, the connection with the kids, you're going there to to meet and learn and extol your experience. Yeah, I went there. And taught swimming, I went and then talk to the director and said, Well, I actually am involved have been involved with scouting. So you know, the next year I was assistant head of water France, I was still teaching kids and looking at that. And I was also helping in the ropes course in the outdoor and in my final year. I went into the expedition so I was taking kids all over the north northeastern United States to Mount Washington up to what the highest mountain on the on the Eastern Seaboard. You know, take them whitewater rafting, canoeing, camping, all over the state of Maine and

so good. So you talked about you mentioned there about you've been involved in the scouting and and that reminds me of a story you told me where you you won an award, you put so much into it. And then they came to a pretty powerful realization at the end of it. So are you are you happy to share that with us today?

Yeah, yeah. So one of the highest awards in in Scouting when you're in ventures, which is the section of scouting, which is between 14 and 18 is the coin Scout award. Now that's presented to you by the New South Wales or the state governor, so New South Wales governor. And it's, it's a significant award. It's something that you've got to put a lot of time and a lot of effort. And there's a series of badges you need to achieve to to achieve that it needs to go and be put in front of the board for approval. It needs to be signed off by varying levels of leadership. And when I achieve that, you know, drive drive drive to achieve it and then I was awarded it and there was a huge lunch to celebrate and I'm sitting there and I'm like why, like I didn't feel that I deserved it. Then I realized that I hadn't done it for myself I'd done it to to attract the attention of my parents because I felt that I needed constantly achieved Eve to have their attention. That was never, never never the case. My parents loved me either way, but just a perception from a very early age, because there was a lot of time and effort because of my younger brother. And my younger brother is he's gone and done his queen scout and he's very capable. You know, tradesman has taken a different path to myself. But at the time, I felt that I had to constantly achieve at the highest level to gain approval. And, and that realization then left me empty, even though there was everyone around me celebrating my achievement. I'm sitting there going, I'm wasn't happy, it was probably one of the most depressing days of my life, even though it's one of the highest achievements you can achieve in, in scanning.

Yeah, wow. That's really powerful awareness of that age, because most of us keep going on. Well, no, that was me for sure. Like the same pattern of how I tried to get attention or get my parents love. And kid that continued for many years. So you have that realization at that age? How did we able to change how you operated and how you saw life at that point?

I to a point, I was a little bit lost for a while. Yeah, I was 18. I was, you know, finishing school, you know, HSC, all this, you know, everything was sort of going on all at once. And with this realization was well, where to from here? Where am I? Where am I going to go? What? What future am I going to look for? What career Am I going going to take? Now I had always had an interest in not only being involved in scouting, but I also was involved in Army Cadets. So you did Cadet throughout through the high school. And I potentially wanted to pursue a career in the defense forces. But because of very different reasons. I was knocked back and I applied for it four different times and was was knocked back and came to the conclusion even though that was a passion of mine, my destiny is not to follow that. So apart from that realization of achieving an award for someone else, not for someone else's approval and not for myself, and then, you know, what I believe was my passionate at a time being sort of taken away from me left me in a loss situation for a period of time of where am I going to go? And it took me a number of years to sort of find my path.

Was, was that the time where you went traveling? Is that what were you traveling?

No, no, no, I didn't start traveling till I was 22. So I had four years. So I went and you know, we were coming out of a 92 So we're four years out of the recession that we had to have you know, it was a real concern of you know, unemployment was reasonably high concern about getting jobs even though I'd been working part time jobs since I was 14 and I ended up getting a traineeship with the federal government because I went did one of their federal government exams did that for a period of time and then ended up driving getting out of that because I realized that I didn't fit within the culture of the public service there are a lot of very good people in the public service but it's just not my kettle of fish and moved into the private sector and drove trucks for Smith chips

previously outrageous remember red LED on move on as a truck driver, didn't you? Well, that must have been an experience in itself.

driving us full time tracking Sydney during peak hours fun.

Or you'll learn plenty about traffic behavior, but you must also learn a lot about people in the in the different contact that you came where you dropping things off and, and all other parts of that.

Well as I was, I was driving what was called a route truck. So we used to pack and we used to do deliveries to to small businesses and to you know, small to medium sized businesses, pubs and so forth. And it was my first introduction into a sort of semi sales role. So I did that for a period of time and then transferred across to the supermarket area which is your rep wieder I personally deliver the chips, but the I met a wide variety of different people. And I was still myself sort of going is this what I want to end up doing for the rest of my life and understanding, being somewhat young and very naive about how this all works and sales quotas, and you know, and dealing with different people, different attitudes, you know, some of the older guys, and they'd been through Christmas snack food had been originally Australian company and had been bought by Coca Cola Mattel and being bought by someone else, and then was bought by someone else. And there was this change over when we were while I was there, and are being taken out by a company called United biscuits, which is a British company. It's now owned by the largest snack food company in the world, which is Frito Lay, which is part of PepsiCo.

Right. So yeah, so you're going through all these changes of culture? And yeah, yeah.

And the area I was looking after had all the executives in it because it was the North Shore and the Northern Beaches. Because the head office was a Chatsworth Yeah. Well,

so I want to come back to the business journey. Yeah, something's just come to me now is you behind You're right. The superheroes tell me about the the fascination around superheroes? And actually, again, what is what is the learning from from those stories that you've been able to apply to your life?

Well, I mean, superheroes, and I'm gonna guess the two behind us a perfect example, we know the awkward, the awkward teenager who gets who gets superpowers from being bitten, and then having to navigate himself through the genesis of learning his skills, and how he's gonna apply that. And then you've got the other side, which is, you know, Tony Stark, the billionaire, who's a mortal man, but you know, who lives this extravagant life, which is all about him. And then he has this life changing event, where he, he changes from it being just about him and his pleasures, to actually serving others. And then two different stories. Now people are, they're just superheroes. But the the genesis of both both characters, you know, the awkwardness of the teenager, getting his head around, all the stuff, and this is something we all go through. And we don't obviously get bitten by a radioactive spider and turn into someone was, you know, or we don't aren't raised as multibillionaires son, an inheritor, an arms, you know, a worldleading Arms Factory. But the concept of them both having these life changing events and how they deal with it, and how they come to serve people now, to these two, you've then got your villains, you've got the villains, again, these powers and take them for themselves. And unfortunately, in this day and age, the two examples we've got here is we've got you know, we've got Peter Parker comes from a lower income, you know, he could have taken that and had a time of crime, you know, but he took it to do good things. And, you know, with great power comes great responsibility is that is in the code that's used through multiple of the movies. That the ability to take our skills and help people. And unfortunately, not everyone looks to help people, they look to ingratiate themselves. And unfortunately, in some not all of our corporate culture, it's a cutthroat environment where I will, I will take my skills and destroy others to get to the next step.

Yeah. And I was having this conversation with someone the other day, and I was saying, Well, for me, it is a too strong language to say had to sell my soul if I wanted to progress past a certain level. And she said, I know that's that's what it's like you, you, you it's to get past a certain ceiling in corporate in most corporate businesses. It does feel like you have to sacrifice values and and ethics to be able to get somewhere and it often is, it's a it's a moving other people out of the way to get where you need to get because it's only comes up to a point there's only so many opportunities. So what's your superhero? Superhero superpower? And how do you use that? To help people?

My superpower is education. My Talking to people in terms they understand one or two things I say to people, is when I first meet them, a no matter how simple the question is, ask it. Because if you don't, then you could premise that an entire meeting is lost. And both of our time is lost. Yeah. And I'm here to educate, demystify. But yeah, the and I say to people, look, if I use a word that you don't understand, it can mean the difference between me sitting here for 45 minutes expecting that you understand and you sit here and nod and you're not and you're not, I walk away thinking great, you understand, and husband and wife example, look at each other and go, I don't understand any of that, because I missed that word.

So it's more than just the education, it's, it's being able to take people through somewhere where you demystify from a place of zero judgment, of giving them that opportunity to say, I don't get it. Because I know in particularly in the financial space, that there are a lot of people out there that will use be words, and they'll rush through different conversations. But the people I've met who have, who I've been most drawn to, are the ones like yourself, who slow it down, who make it really clear, it's clear that you're building trust, because they're not trying to bamboozle people with with different language and make it confusing to the point where I guess I better just trust his person. Instead, you actually do it from a place of really caring and helping, is that, is that fair?

Well, yes, yeah, I do. I is, but it's a connection to, you know, I talked to as well, you gotta get every client, you know, and so and then, but it's no, you don't get every client because not every client is going to have that connection with you. And I say to clients as well, in the in the initial meeting. Look, this is a job interview. I need, you need to interview me and go, we're comfortable work with you, I need to interview you and go do I want to work with these people for the next 20 years. Love it, because my my role is a relationship. It is about taking clients on a journey. It's not about a wham bam, thank you, man. That's it. Just sign here. And it's all good and data, and you're gonna make millions of dollars and data, but I'm going to be gone in five minutes, because I've got my hit. Yeah. And I and I've, through my career, I've met guys who are in the apex of that. And, you know, they're heralded as the heroes and, and that they do this. But at the same time, I've then met the equivalent person who's at the tail end of their career, who now regrets that they care about the client. There is no zero care about the client. It was just about that hit of endorphins of winning, and winning at all costs.

Yeah, I love how this is all linked, right? Because you talked about that story of trying to impress your parents. And I really believe that that's the same for people who are driven by the dollar. And by making that more important than their clients, it's the same thing. It's not because they're necessarily bad people. It's still this pattern of behavior of trying to impress someone or trying to be enough for someone, and so be enough

for themselves to find that. Yeah, there are people who, who and I have nothing against people building wealth, and it's part of what I do. But there are people who build who have a never ending hole that they're trying to fill with the wrong things. Yeah. And the further they go, and then some of them are in corporate life that sold their soul. You know, they spend 6070 90 hour weeks they have a family who was part of the step later. But you know, when they then look back on their life, they go well, I've had the past decade I've had no connection with my kids, because all I've done been the beck and call of those people above me, and working hours and hours and hours and hours. I'm estranged from my wife, my estranged from my kids. And I I'm not satisfied. Yes, I've got the lap of luxury. I've got the McMansion, I've got this, I've got that I've got 15 investment properties. But I've got nothing.

Yeah. Amazing right now. So relationships is a big part of who you are and what you do and how you live. I also know that through your business journey, you've had a number of relationships with people who promised the world and, and delivered the opposite. So rather than going into the story around the things that transpired, maybe share how you now look at relationships in your personal life and your business life as a result of experiencing these connections with people who, who didn't have your best interests at heart.

Yeah. If I'm honest with myself, I've had three significant business relationships. In my time, all them have not ended well. And if I'm honest with why I took those business relationships, is because I felt there was something missing in me that they would fill that gap to help me take that next step. And they say insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Yeah, I mean, part of my strength and potential weakness is the ability to take people on face value, that if you're going to do something, and we're on a journey together, that it's going to have a common benefit for both of us, not just for that, that particular person. And that when you're going to tell me things that you're going to be honest with me, and you're not going to, you know, try and manipulate words. And the key that I've realized is that part of part of my being involved with these people is I believe that is I was not whole, to be able to take that step. So I needed someone to be there to help me on that journey. And there were elements that I had, that they didn't have, and collectively we could we could achieve that.

Which is still an okay, way of looking at as long as, as you described, you're not doing it to fill a hole, but it's actually somewhere where it's mutually beneficial. So, again, if you apply that to, to personal life, how have you How have you been able to grow through that? And, and really take your relationships to another level?

Well, first, I guess, was recognizing why I was doing what I was doing. Yeah, beautiful. And that's only unfortunately been in the last couple of years that that realisation has happened,

unfortunately, because it could have been before but fortunately, because it could have been much later.

Yeah, true. True. You've got to you have these journeys. And the key is to celebrate your wins. And you know, assess your losses. You know, because if you fall into the depths, every time you you stumble, then you know, it's going to be a very, very long journey. And you've just got to dust yourself off. And that's the other thing too. And, you know, failure is going to happen in people's lives. Yeah, right. And failure is, you know, failure of a relationship failure of a business. The question comes down to do you throw your hands in the air and allow that failure to consume you or do you assess yourself, dust yourself off and move forward? You know, for me with the things that have happened more recently is I was taking a path with someone else and some of the decisions were made out of perceived duress desperation. And the truth is, that's been a big learning for myself is no matter how desperate the situation, you don't take the easiest path. You got to make sure that you can move forward with something that you know is not okay. Look, this is the, this is the object, a shiny object promises of, of gold and riches. Where, you know, and, again, we all learn our lessons in different times of our life. And we all grow in different ways. Now, some people aren't going to have some of the revelations that you and I have had, for whatever reason. And, you know, we are like everything. It's not happily ever after it's a work in progress. Our marriages are a perfect game in our relationships with our kids. Just because you have a falling out with your kids doesn't mean that's the way it's going to be forever. If you have a 40 via if you have a disagreement with your wife doesn't mean that's the end of the end of the road. And when you get married, it's not happily ever after it's the work is, is is a constant, you've got to constantly work on your relationships. Yeah,

absolutely. And it comes down to something you said before you got to be prepared. You got to be paid to get in there and do it. Yeah. Yeah. So if you have the opportunity to share a message with the world to make improvements, what would you talk about?

Good question. I guess you're not going to better fix every relationship that don't allow a relationship, especially with family to decay, you know, reach out. And, yeah, if you keep getting slapped down, then it gets to a point where you go, Okay, well, that's, you know, I've got to I've got to let that go. But just because some harsh words were sent in the past, doesn't mean that you can't go back and see if you can re rekindled or reconnect with that person, because we all grow, and we all change. And we're constantly changing, yes, that our base element may may have a template, that doesn't change very much. But there are elements of growth and development that we all have. And sometimes that reaching out, because sometimes people are embarrassed to reconnect and not reconnecting. Could be a regret for both parties.

Yeah, and even sorry, to go.

Yeah, I was gonna say I mean, like, it's, it's their fear of rejection. Or it's that, you know, again, it's holding that anger about that person. And that anger is sits in that pit. And again, drinking that poison, we've set it up that other personnel.

Yeah, doesn't do either party, any good. And even even, like, if we get silence from other people, it's just knowing that they could be working through something that no one has any idea about, because they're going through it alone. And I think that's probably pretty relevant at the moment is as we go through some of the most strangest days in our lives, people are dealing with stuff and, and just don't be too quick to judge and, and cast aspersions about what people are up to there. If they're appearing in a way that's less than their best. They're going through something and it's just about giving them some compassion. And as you said, trying to continue to build those relationships both weekend. That's really cool students salutely Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything else you want to share about you business, anything before we wrap it up

don't be afraid to try things. I said a very interesting one. You might have a passion that you suck at. But give it a go anyway. Yeah. And don't sit there with an idea and not take some action with it. Because you just never know where that will lead to. Be it be the simple as odds. You know, I don't want to go and catch up with such and such but catching up with that person or, or going and trying something new could open you to you know, wonderful experiences. And life is life is is all about experiences, you know, you? Do you want to live a life of regret or a life. And everyone's gonna have regrets, okay, we all do stupid things, and we all have our moments, but isn't it better to have had, look, I've lived my life, and I've tried all these different things. And I've, I've gone out there and hey, look, some things weren't great, but you know, it's been a hell of a ride. And, you know, just going, you know, let's give that a go. Because some of the some of the time, some of the people who love us, the most are going to be our biggest anchor or biggest block away, you want to go and start a business, you just going to fall 95% of all businesses fail in the first five years. That's not true. The problem is, you get if you get into these ingredients, statistics, some businesses set up specifically for a period of time. You know, and it's all lumped into, if you try this, you are going to fail, the thing is part of life is you are going to fail. We can't go through life, and not have things not work for us. And if you have a life where everything works perfectly, then that's fantastic, and all power to you in the world. But if you're honest, you haven't taken risk, you haven't got yourself out there on limb, you know, and, and it's not necessarily Oh, I'm gonna go and start a business tomorrow, I'll be Hey, I'm gonna go and do a yoga class, I'll go and do this, I'll go, I'll go and try something new. And, you know, if you've got if you're in a relationship, and you know, you want to be in a relationship with someone, professionally, or personally, who is going to help hold you up and not hold you down? Yeah. Love it. And and if you're doing something different, and they don't like it, the question is, is it about you? Or is it about them, because sometimes, if they're, they're not happy about it, because it's, it's challenging them to do something. So part of part of my aim with my business is to build continue to build my business to a point where I can allow Judith, my wife, to pursue her passions. And that's, you know, that's part of my aim is is to allow her now that passion, she's, you know, she's a brilliant dressmaker she does, you know, these these beautiful dolls, clothes, and it's a passion of hers, and she knits and does all these wonderful things. But part of it is to free up her time. So she spends less time in my business, which she's really great at doing, but it's not her passion. Love it to allow her to pursue that so that she can have that fulfillment. Yeah, we've just recently renovated her her sewing table, sewing room, right? So that she can have that have that space, that Zen Den for her. And it really is it's about getting out and trying new things and supporting and lifting up in other people.

Yeah, my I love that. I'm glad you included at the end. Talking about passions that people suck at it reminded me of my golf. I love it, but

play someday, because I suck at it as well. I have a good laugh and upset some people because I'm really bad.

Yeah, and I know that. Well. That's the end goal for you. And Judith, it's also, as you said early on, it's not waiting till later. You're creating that stuff now. Yeah, while you can, while it's important, and whatever unfolds for that as a result. Yeah, amazing. Thank you, Shane. Sonya Charlie, for being on here life. Yeah, and trust in their faith. That's right. We have to put our trust and faith in something towards the future, whether you believe in a God a higher power, the universe, whatever, we have to put our faith somewhere. So I love that Sonia. And Charlie glad to hear that that advice that Stu was giving us hit you just at the right time. I appreciate you sharing that it was really powerful and positive message asked you I didn't really know where this was gonna go. We didn't really get into the nitty gritty of the business but I think that made for a better chat because we talked about you and what's real for you and there was some stories there that really hit home for me and I'm sure for many people listening and watching would have taken some great lessons out of that. So thanks heaps, man. Appreciate it.

No, that's all right. Appreciate. appreciate the invitation. Really appreciate the time and yeah, look, you know, get out there give things a go and do things You

also might say well next week. I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief, let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.