Ep 474 - The Pressure & Pain Of Being A High Performer with John Templeton

Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back, you've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it, and what to do next. Before we start by one request, if any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the Ian Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this word, I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it. If you're a high performer, and you've been chasing that thing that's gonna fill the void within you externally, by success by competition by winning, then you're gonna get so much out of this chat with John Templeton. He describes his journey of the depths of depression, the unraveling of a relationship that not only had a huge impact on him, and his health, but his business, his financial situation, and how he came back from that, how he how he overcame so many of those different patterns that were showing up for him. And what I love is he talks about how to be able to connect with that emotional side of you so that you can move past things. I also love that he talked a lot about journaling and journaling. And you all know how much I love to talk about the power of journaling. He's got some great tips about that as well. Have you enjoyed this as much as I did? Hey, everyone, and welcome This week's guest, John Templeton now. Hey, John.

Unknown Speaker 2:16

I'm doing fantastic. Thank you. Thank you for having me on the show.

Ian Hawkins 2:19

You're welcome. It's great to meet you just before we jumped on. I love how just random people pop up on in your world and come into your existence. And you get to have conversations with a completely new people. So I really don't know a heap about you, which is good. When you're a coach, and you've done a heap of awesome work out there, a little bit of a little bit of a stalk and seeing what you're up to. And it's all really positive, which I love. But also calling things out and saying how it is. So how did you come to work in that space.

Speaker 2 2:55

I've always been fascinated by success and winning. And as a, it started with fitness for me. And as a personal trainer, I started to see that when I learned from my own experiences eating the right training is one thing doesn't quite get you there. Nutrition plus training, it gets you a bit further, still doesn't quite get you there. Training plus nutrition plus mindset that gets you there. And so I realized that it's really psychology, everything is driven by who we are as a person internally. And I was curious about that for my own successes. And then through, you know, a big break down you could say in my life, I became obsessed with it not just in terms to fitness and working with athletes, but across every context of life. And that's when I decided to get certified and make it my life's work and my career.

Ian Hawkins 3:47

Awesome. So what was it event? Like? What unfolded that? You described it as everything started unraveling in your life?

Speaker 2 3:55

Yep, so on paper, and in reality, I was very successful by everyday standards. I was late 20s I owned real estate. I was mortgage free when I hit 30 I owned two CrossFit gyms. I was competing internationally, I was super, super fit and healthy. I was dating a world champion fitness model on paper that everyone had a big social following. I was New Zealand's bachelor of the year prior to that everything was just well successful, a trend Special Forces in the military. So everything I did was to a really high level. But this relationship it brutally kicked my ass. And because I was so proud of who I was, I didn't ask for support. I thought I could handle it myself. I was a super high achiever. And it started to bury me because I moved away I moved to Australia from New Zealand. And it life started to fall away because I didn't have friends that didn't have a support network. I was too proud to ask for help. And this woman God bless her it just destroyed me. And what into it. I sold the properties just to continue living. I had sold my gyms and handle this cash. That was all gone. My health was gone, I'd stopped competing as an athlete, I had lost about 15 kilos from my peak. I was ghost white. I ended up in hospital because I couldn't speak properly. I was slurring my words. And it was awful. I had blood tests, I had stool samples. I was in and out of hospital for about a month I had cameras up and down X rays. Nobody could decipher what was going on with me. And they sent me home with antibiotics. And for about two weeks after that I couldn't drink water without regurgitating. So things were pretty dire. I had warts growing all over my body.

Ian Hawkins 5:44

Yet whatsoever. I

Speaker 2 5:45

say this, I had warts growing on my arms and my torso. And I say now looking back, I was dying. My sole hit was just so empty. During that it was a three year relationship. During that I've messaged a friend saying I am so depressed. I don't know what to do. I've never experienced anything like this in my life before. And that was 2016. I sent that message. And like I said, I ended up in hospital. They sent me home with antibiotics. I kept dying, and eventually was told to maybe go and see a naturopath, the naturopath said to me, all of this is stress. What in your life is causing your stress. And I said it's this relationship. I love this girl, I've opened my heart to her. I'm there for her when she needs me 24/7. But this girl had two kids from a previous relationship. She was diagnosed anxiety and depression. She was medicated for it. She had lost custody of her children. So I was carrying a lot. And I was trying to start a new business because I had sold my gym. So I was trying to start two businesses, I was helping her build her business because she was very tech savvy. And the pressure was just too much. I was too proud to ask for help. And something had to give. And it was my my life was beginning to give. And so that was that shattered me into a million pieces. And I lost not only all these physical things, I lost who I was, I didn't know what my values were anymore. I didn't know if I'm right up from down. I was so lost and confused with who I was my direction in life. And I use this word I was confused with who I was meant to be. Because there was the me I used to know successful and then there was the new me that was just a failure and a mess. And so I for the first time in my life, I had this conflict and my personality of who am I? And that question also compounds to the confusion.

Ian Hawkins 7:34

Absolutely, mate. That was a roller coaster. That's that's must have been such an intense time your life.

Speaker 2 7:44

Yeah, it was I remember, I was coaching someone at the time with athletically not mindset. And I remember feeling drunk. And I was trying to talk to him, but I couldn't get the words out. He was competing in event and I was his coach. And he said to you, okay, and I was like, Yeah, I'm fine. And if you've ever been hypothermic, you think through okay, but you're absolutely not. That's how I felt. And he said, You need to go to hospital man. Because I was I could feel my face starting to like sag on one side. And he just said, you need to go to hospital. And so I did I went straight to hospital. From there, they hooked me up to an IV and you know, it was it was fucked up. Can I swear it was really, really fucked up. And for someone like myself, who was a high achiever, I had no reference point for this level of shame, low self worth, pain, depression, it was it rocked my whole world completely.

Ian Hawkins 8:40

Oh, wow. That's a big one. So it's the High Achiever part of you that's like, this is failing, because your health is failing through no fault of your own.

Speaker 2 8:50

To be fair, it wasn't my fault of my own. And I took responsibility, I should have ended the relationship earlier, I should have done all these things. But at the time, I didn't have the resources, the skills, the knowledge to to deal with it. And that was my lesson. You know, in this lifetime, that was a big part of my life lesson. Yeah,

Ian Hawkins 9:07

I'd argue the toss on on fault. It may have been other people's contributing factors. And yes, you need to take responsibility for your partner. But these are patterns that are generational, right? Like that giving everything for everyone else. It's it's learned behavior. We don't we don't necessarily come in with that. So

Speaker 2 9:29

yeah, but it was the way that was exactly what I needed for my integration. It was, it was the it was the shattering of that aspect of my personality, which is essentially ego so that I could be more authentic as opposed to, I truly believe that every high achiever needs to be humbled to become whole. And every low achiever needs to achieve to become whole. It's like this synthesis of two opposites. And so this girl, this woman, right really did give me a gift. It was a gift that took seven years to realize.

So did you start losing all the money while you're still with her? Is that your was what you said? So yeah. So because the relationship was impacting your ability to function to perform, or was there other stuff at play?

Speaker 2 10:24

Yeah, the I love this woman, right. And I wanted her to be successful and healthy. And I could tell she was making bad decisions, I would have done the complete opposite to what she was doing, how she was spending money and things like that. So I kept going, Well, I would do the complete opposite. But hey, maybe she knows more than me about this. I don't know. I just want her to be happy. So I avoided conflict by supporting her values. They were different to mine. And so I was spending money on living rent, food, gym membership. And because I was under so much stress, I couldn't build a business. I was the load was just too much. So yeah, it was just money on living costs. But it was so impacted my ability to earn based on the emotional stress of dealing with that level of Yeah, emotional burden.

So can you can you take us back there, because it's really important for people to hear. People get trapped in all of these external things. And if they're in business, they often think I need a business coach and all these things. The foundational stuff, is this, right? So do you remember, was there a moment before you got sick and ended up in hospital where you kind of had a moment of clarity, or you're just constantly in, in survival mode,

Speaker 2 11:56

constantly in survival mode? And even after that constantly in survival mode? For years, like six years after? I? Yeah, no. And this was part of that pride I had was I didn't reach out to anyone to give me a different perspective. And I find this with a lot of men, specifically to, this is why I believe that male suicide rate is higher is because we're too proud. We think we need to carry the weight of the world on our shoulders, we think. And that's true to a degree that has a masculine role, but that can go too far. And so we need to be able to go, Hey, maybe I need some help here. And maybe it's okay for me to ask for help. I didn't do that. I sort of messaged this girl privately, she was a friend in New Zealand. But no, I did not have any moments of clarity. It was chronic stress. I did say to my father two years into the relationship that it would be done. This wasn't my relationship, but I I felt a duty to support her and her life, which looking back now was not my duty at all. And you know, I said that to my dad. I was in England and everything. And I will say that to my dad. And then I when I was in Italy with this girl. I was in Rome. And I said to her that night I said I cannot do this anymore. I was like this is this relationship is killing me. And she screamed, and I mean, screamed and cried for about six hours straight and she had tissues in her hands from thing. And she squeezed them so tightly. There was so much anger and rage in her that after six hours and I finally said okay, okay, okay, like, I'm not gonna leave you because she had huge abandonment words. Everyone leaves me what's wrong with me? And I was like, Oh, nothing, you know, it's okay, I won't leave you. She couldn't open her hands again, because she just been clenching everything so tightly, and all of her forearm muscles were strained. So I knew this wasn't for me. I just, I just was conflicted, because I didn't want to be there. But I also didn't want to abandon her. So that conflict is what kept me stuck for years.

Wow. The couple of things here that really hit home you talked about men and where they're at and what they decide and, and you're so right. Like, the, the the ego comes in, and there's too much prior to that I think they can reach out for help. And I think the other thing is that they think well, this is from the experience I've had, I'd be interested to hear your take is that men go I kind of feel like I had chewed up my shit together. Like, I feel like I shouldn't need help. But the reality is, is that men for generations and generations have depended on community and we're getting too far away from that, like, actually getting support from other people. Not not necessarily all men, but that's an important part of it. And the other thing that you talked about there was that doing like sad, fucking happy wife happy life bullshit, like, oldest do whatever it takes to keep her happy. And that will be all I need to do. Whether it's from the extreme, you talked about their eight hours of crying or if it's just something small. It's it does both you a disservice. Right?

Speaker 2 15:11

Absolutely. And that actually what you just said, was the wisdom I needed to leave the relationship. It was by you staying, you're doing her a disservice. That was when the penny dropped for me, actually, because it's absolutely true.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's probably one of those moments for me was a realization, I'm trying to pay that forward all the time, because it's like, with other people, by continuing to rescue and continuing to over support, you're actually keeping them stuck. And then, ah, well, I might not do it for myself, but I'll do it for someone else, which is crazy. But that's how we tend to end up right.

Speaker 2 15:48

Yeah, every victim needs an enabler, and I was enabling the victimhood to continue. So yeah, that was when I started to learn about archetypes and the dynamics they roll. They run with. That was when the penny dropped. And I went, Oh, my God, I'm literally, I'm keeping her stuck. So I'm fucking both up. Time to go. Yeah.

Now tell me from from what I've experienced myself and with other people that I've worked with. Once, once you realize that, and you stop enabling in all of those different relationships where you've been doing it, that can be quite confronting to the people that you were, therefore, do you have any other fallout from other relationships when you started to change?

Speaker 2 16:31

With that one specifically, I phoned up her friend and I said, come around, I'm gonna pull the pin. So I, you know, I, I tactically did that. Because but that have been going on so long. She she knew it was coming. Yep. And yes, yes, I have had four friends by no longer enabling victimhood. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's okay.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And how did that impact you emotionally? Because I know like, if someone let you set like that, you're someone who really cares. And you have a big heart and you want to be there for people. But you also know for for your best and their best, you need to stop doing it. Like how did that like, was that tough, or you're at that point, we just had to

Speaker 2 17:15

know it was tough, for sure. You know what, really, what caused so as this high achiever that version of John, before I'd met, this girl, was quite brutal with woman, you would say, a pretty tough masculine dude, I was ex military. Just very nice. This is how it is. And then I read the book, The Power of Now a cop told. And I say that that book, destroyed my ego, but also built me back up sort of years later. Because what it made me do it made me realize that I could pay attention to my thoughts, and it made me understand empathy and compassion. So I had realized up until this point, I had really very little empathy or compassion, it was I'm gonna win, I don't care what the cost is. That was in sports, in relationships, everything. And then I read that book and went, Well, my actions affect other people. But what happened was, I went from sort of hyper masculine to quite feminine, quite compassionate and empathetic. And then when this girl was in pain, her pain was my pain. And so I believe that compassion can also be a downside, because you can then get trampled on. So I just the pendulum swung from narcissism, you could say to altruism, from taking to giving, and I wasn't balanced within myself. So this relationship with the school was a new experience to me, and I was practicing compassion, but really, I was getting walked all over. So when I came back, closer to the center point of, wait a minute, do I need to take in this moment? Or do I need to given this moment? Do I need to be compassionate in this moment? Or do I need to be a bit of an artist in this moment? That actually became quite powerful? And yes, some people some people aren't used to that if you've been a certain way with them. But that no longer really became my problem, although it still hurts me to see other people hurt it's nowhere near how it was with this woman. Now I truly believe in 100% responsibility and if I take 100% I expect you to do the same. And that I'm pretty stoked on that.

Yeah, that's great. And I thank you for sharing that because that's a really important message for people to hear particularly high percentage of the the people listening to this will be a similar way inclined to really love helping people love to give and against it's a normal pattern. It's not doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them. It's a bit it's like a growing up as that sort of roll. They need to know that it's okay for them to put themselves first it's okay for them to change. And, again, it comes back to the idea of setting both of your free Yeah, you Tucked, you mentioned something there, which really sort of, I felt that a lot was you talked about the idea of avoiding conflict. Now, you've come from a military background where conflict is probably part and parcel of the role, right? So, if you look back over your life was, was that something you had to learn to confront conflict through the military? Or you're already that way inclined. And when you come out the other side, it was different, like, how did that unfold?

Speaker 2 20:34

Yeah, I was always competitive. I was always competitive, because by being the best that I could gain the approval of my parents, I was always competitive. But the conflict aspects, no, my brother used to sort of dominate me in a way and beat me up. So conflict wasn't something I went into. In the military, I was 52 kilos, when I joined the military. So tiny, my nickname was skinny, I was really tiny. And, you know, it was those seven years in the military, where I actually learned, learned that behavior of conflict and fighting, you know, what this is this will this will resonate with people before that, in my dreams, I used to drift have dreams, and have you ever had it when you are in your dream, and you try and run away, but you're really slow, or you try and hit someone, but you're really weak. So that's what my dreams were like, sort of growing up after the military, all of my dreams, I just dominated people. It was wild, my unconscious, my subconscious had literally changed, I had integrated this new aspect. And so it was definitely learned. And I started to thrive off of conflict. So that aspect of my personality of being confrontational you see, like, you know, social media, sometimes I say things how they are and trigger a lot of people, it can absolutely be a benefit, a beautiful trait, but it can also go too far. And you can be an asshole. So it was it was a learned behavior. And this is what I mean by Eckhart Tolle really helped me the more present you are within the moment, the more you can either lean into that conflict, in relationships, conflicts important, right? It's important to have boundaries and say, No, I don't want this to happen, or, you know, but the more present you are, the more you can lean into that conflict, or lean into more of a compromise if, if that's required. And it allows us to dance more with our with our behavior and our personality.

I love that. That's one of my favorite analogies, as well as the, it's the dance, and you need to be able to, to move in and out and be able to have differences and then come back together. But it's way too many relationships aren't prepared to meet that conflict and find a resolution so the dance slowly gets further and further separated.

You mentioned there when you're talking about sometimes those reactions online as long as they go too far. To me. The moment it goes too far is when people can make it personal. And they start wanting to come at you because suddenly you've triggered him. So particularly people in business that having to get themselves out there, they you're going to face it, it's just a given, right? What's the best bit of advice you give to people when when people are coming harder without logic, but just just wanting to get a fight? Because they've got some stuff inside of me, I need to get out. How do you what's the best tip for dealing with that?

Speaker 2 23:41

I want to say two things here. Because one thing I learned from one of my mentors was that expect 5050 they expect 50% challenge and 50% support. And as soon as I set that expectation, all of a sudden, when I get 20% challenge, it's not so bad. But if you expect everyone to love you and support you and like you, then your expectations aren't gonna be met and you're gonna feel like you're doing a bad job, you're gonna feel like there's something wrong with you. So setting that framework 5050 Good to go. It's good. And from a strategic point of view, this might help some business owners. This is a lesson I've learned the hard way. On social media, everything is so fast and superficial. So everything can be taken out of context. You can't really read someone's tone on a very short post. Yeah, so I am a huge fan of long form content. I like depth. I like wisdom. And on social media, it's very hard to get that across. So I lean towards create long form content. I've written one book I've written a couple of books I've published one. My website has blogs on it and things like that, because long form content, isn't it gives you the ability to have a whole discussion given different arguments, different contexts. And so when people read it, they're like, Oh, now I know why he said that online. So that strategically helped me a lot was building long form content, because it's got more depth and wisdom. And if people want to throw their superficial opinions at you, you can say, hey, look, if you want to read a bit more about this, maybe it's been taken out of context, go and read this article I've written because that will explain my perspective, if you don't want to read it, that's just fine. That's my advice, strategically, good. I mean, someone's head off the other day, I got so frustrated, and I just went out a person, I would say, if you do go too personal, so don't beat yourself up. Because that's something we can do is beat ourselves up. So don't do that. But just learn from it. And again, this is a big part of my integration work is that desire just to destroy people, if they get in my way is I still have that. I remember hearing Mike Tyson say, he said, because Mike Tyson is quite a humble man these days. But he said, it's still in him. He said, I just want to punch people's heads off. He's like that, that animal is still in me. But I've just got to control it. And I knew what he he meant when he said that, because I'm the same, and sometimes it gets out. And sometimes I just don't mean to let people. But that's a reflection on me. And it's a reflection on where I need to work on to slow down. And, again, be present with these people. Because, you know, not everyone is. Like you said everyone wants to be seen and heard they they're spewing their opinions online, that's part of it's part of the game. So take out what you thought you will

match good and love, you got to own that because you do like we're not perfect. Just because we're putting out information we're helping people doesn't mean we get it right all the time, because we don't just own that and put your hand up. And I think that's important, because that's part of people seeing that you're just human. If the I'm going to come back to that, because I've completely lost my train of thought. But what I didn't want to what I didn't want to go to was when you mentioned your dad before, and and ask him that question. I like goosebumps. Right. So your dad must be someone who's pretty important too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 27:17

Yeah. Yeah, I love my dad. I mean, I love both my parents now. But growing up, I had my frame of reality. And that was the good cop mom was the bad cop. So I yeah, I really love and appreciate my dad.

Is he? Like, what? What are the traits that you see now in yourself that are like, is it that carry nature that you carry through to to other parts of your life? He's still doing now that compassion, and the fact that you could call him and he's, and he's there for you in a really powerful way?

Speaker 2 27:52

Yeah, I wouldn't say he's compassionate. But he's pretty old school and his English, but he is very thoughtful and mindful of other people. Yeah, um, he's a gentleman. He's a British gentleman. He, he's got traditional values. He does what's right. Yep. So that aspect for sure. And my dad's structure, he's so organized and structured, which really served me in the military, but I was always like that my room, everything in my bedroom was lined up, everything had a place. So I take a look at that for my dad, as well.

So it's the structure on all of that. And the safety, it actually, this probably, I'll come back to I was gonna say before that when I lost my train of thought, and then I'll come back to you that in a sec. It's important for people to hear like what you said there about the anger and it's okay for you to be triggered. It's okay for you to be angry, it's okay. For you to have those reactions, it's then finding a healthier way of processing it yourself, rather than saying, oh, that's bad. Like trying to push it away and go, I shouldn't feel like that, like you said, not beating yourself up. And that's a really important message to hit home. So when the inevitable self deprecation comes, how do you then shift your mindset to something more positive? And actually, what self care?

Speaker 2 29:16

Yeah, the first thing I want to say about anger is, and this will help a lot of your audience, if I've got your audience, right, is they probably don't get angry very often. And if they, and they suppress and repress it, and if that happens, you're going to have weak boundaries, and you're going to be more altruistic, you're going to give you're going to be kind, caring. So if someone is doing that, the very first thing I would take a client through is getting them in touch with their anger, because their anger gives them the ability to set boundaries to be okay with conflict. It is that it's that suppression and repression of it. That's why they've got weak boundaries and they over give as a strategy to get their needs met. So anger is done. Which toward most people will support a lot of people, specifically, a feminine strategy is to avoid anger move towards sadness and masculine strategies move towards anger, avoid sadness. And so it is about integrating that anger and that strategy so that you have the ability to set boundaries to essentially go after what you want in your life and tell people to get out the way if they're in the way. That's what I wanted to say that anger and in regards to not beating myself up. Again, high achievers, and perfectionist will beat themselves out. That's their strategy for self improvement. And if I do beat myself up, which I do sometimes, then again, I don't beat myself up for beating myself up, I go, I just beat myself up. Why did I beat myself up? Because my actual behavior wasn't optimal. Okay, what can I do next time to make it more optimal. So I do do that. And then I do my own self forgiveness work as well, if it goes too far, if you really dropped the ball, John, and you get down on yourself, I'll write letters to myself, if you saw my journal, I ran a retreat in Bali in May and showed everyone my journal. It's just pages of writing and journaling. And I teach journaling, because it's a skill that's really allowed me to discover myself, but also, not just discover, but heal aspects of myself and improve my behavior patterns and become more successful in business. A better partner and relationships so big advocate towards journaling, and forgiving self. Yeah, I think it's, it's indescribably beneficial.

I'm gonna come back to journaling. We were talking about Robin Sharma before we jumped on. And I got a lot of my German journaling strategy from him. But you mentioned something there where you talked about if I've got your audience, right, yeah, I think you've nailed them exactly. Right. I talk about anger. And they go, I'm not angry. Like, in fact, what you said they, they're very rarely angry. But then when we have a conversation about it, it's like, oh, yeah, well, it spills out at this time and this time, because eventually it's going to find a home, right. And the interesting thing is for my experience is that when anger continues to get to get suppressed. It does end in things like not just sadness, but that deep sadness, right? Depression, anxiety, all sorts of stuff that you mentioned before he came on, because I asked you, okay, you had this fallout from the relationship, but like, what, like, was there still tough times through then? And you said, yeah, there's lots of ups and downs and bouts of depression. So have you made sense of where the Depression came from? Do you see any link between the the prep suppression and that unfolding?

Speaker 2 32:48

Yeah, I just finished writing an article on the majority with depression, it's gonna go live on the 28th of August, so I'm not sure when this will come out. But if anyone wants to read that, it's my full story of what happened. And I became obsessed with understanding not just depression, but I want to know, the big picture, perceptions, emotions, what's happening, what drives depression, what the what all emotions are linked, like you said, anger, sadness, they work. That's the masculine feminine strategies, they work on like a seesaw or figure eight, I mastered emotions. And again, I've got a whole program called perceptions and emotional mastery, which dives into all of the emotions, how to deal with them, how they affect each other in really great detail. With depression, and with my depression, it's um, I say there are three markers, three levers, that will dictate the depth of depression, because even in the article, I said, you can be on a scale of one to 10. One being said, I see two being grief 10 Being depression. There are three levers that dictate how deep you go into that pain. The first one is how much you so So depression is an expectation that is essentially not being met unconsciously normally. And, again, in the article, I talked about all the different examples of expectations not being met. And so it's how much do you value that expectation? How important is it to you, that's the first lever, if it's not that important, and you don't meet the expectation, it's not really going to bother you, if it's super important, you don't meet it, it's gonna sting. The second lever is how big is what I call the gap of disappointment. So the expectation might be here, and you miss it by a hair, you're probably gonna be like, ah, like, I'm pretty gutted, but it's not the end of the world. If you are way short, again, it's another lever, it's going to hurt more. And the last lever, the third lever is the duration. Because if it's a short thing, and you you remedy it, you're not going to be sad or grieving anymore because there's remedy but if it goes on and on and on, so if you're highly valued If, if there's a big gap between what you thought my life should be like and what it's actually like, and it goes on and on and on, you've got pain in the past, you've got pain now. And if you look forward, and it's hopeless, you're in depression you're at, you're at 10. And so I did, I broke down depression, I wanted to understand it, because once I understood it, I could then remedy it. And for me, the expectations were around. We talked about it before as a man finances having, you know, being where you should be in life by certain time. So that, that was one of the beliefs I was holding. One of the expectations I had, that was contributing to this pain. I had another one they were all about, around business, predominantly, because that was the area of life I valued the most. That's where I've met most of my needs. So yes, I broke depression down to the nth degree to understand it, and build solutions for remedying it for me, a lot of it was around my I'm gonna say where I was in life, but in context, business and finances.

Love it. I'm going to ask a question that came from on camera for was the last interview I did, or the one before that. And we're talking about the guests. Steve was talking about when he was really battling, he looked for he went into this place, and he just must have been a medical center or something. I looked for a pamphlet, and there was one there on men's health. And he said, he said he picked it up. And all it did was he said it felt like it's been kicked while he was down. Like it was like, all I did was make him feel worse. So I asked him what, in that time, what would you have needed to read to actually then take action and reach out? So I asked you the same question, because you've offered some wonderful stuff. And then but often the case is exactly what we talked about at the start is that they don't reach out, they don't feel like they need it. So what would that pamphlet need, from your perspective? For man to go are? Well, like, this guy gets me. I'm going to I'm going to take action here.

Speaker 2 37:13

Yeah, if the people writing the pamphlets will go to Sales copywriting, they probably do a good job. Putting yourself in the other person's shoes and going, you're probably experiencing this, this and this, you might have also had these thoughts running through your head. Emotionally, you feel like this. When it comes to this, you feel like what,

specifically specifically? So you say for you, given where you're at? Not not not general, like, because because you know, it's not going to be there's going to be like lots of different paths, depending on people's journey. But from your story, what did you What would you have needed to read?

Speaker 2 37:49

He would say, Are you experiencing fluctuations in your mood, a high highs and low lows, and you have been trying to achieve something for a long time that you just don't feel like you're there yet. And the more you try, the more failed attempts you have, the more worthless you feel, that probably would have hooked me in at the start, I would have gone fuck that to me. Say something like I get it. I've been there too. In fact, you're not alone. Millions of other men and women go through this every single day. Whether you want to label that depression or not, you're experiencing depressed feelings. True question mark. And I will go through love and then it would say, Look, you might be thinking that you can do it all alone, that you don't need support that you can get your way through this. And hey, maybe you can. However, if you want to chat if you want to talk about some solutions or options, then keep reading and I want to share something with you. I'm not just another psychologist that I've been through depression. I was a high achiever by x, you know, I experienced a breakdown in my life, I lost everything I had. And from there, it took me a number of years to get my self out of it to the point now where I'm living a really beautiful life. I feel present. I feel calm, I feel peaceful. My business is thriving, my relationships are thriving, and I just want to share with you at no cost at all. What I did, if you're interested, click this link, call this number that will do it.

That's called brother love it and I can see your copywriting flair coming through and that as well which is cool. But I can tell there that like for those who are just listening, you closed your eyes and just allow that to flow through you. That was me Magic. Thank you. Yeah, very good. Let's get the journaling. Because journaling I don't know, I guess it was a combination of a few things. But it was one of the key elements that I would say saved my life rather than just changed my life. Because it was an outlet for all of the shit going on in my head that I didn't know I could do. And I initially heard it from Jim Rohn. And he gave his thoughts on it. And one of the things that I still stick to now I've got my journal here, I've got a new one ready to go. It's like that hardcover, and he has, you get something that's nice to write. And this is your deepest thoughts. This is your life, you want something nice, you're nice pen. And it took me a long time to learn that lesson. But it's like, yeah, like, this is important. And then you mentioned before we jumped on the you're on stage with Robin Sharma, I want to pick your brain on that as well, because he's someone who I've taken a heap of wisdom from. And again, the whole journaling process. So I've got, like a, a, a recipe of all of these greats have their journaling process, and of course, just using my own as well, right, because when you do it for a while, you start to realize, well, this works this doesn't. So how did you find journaling? Firstly, and then what some good tips for people to to either start that habit or to get the most out of it?

Speaker 2 41:33

Yeah, I'm so glad to hear that you're, you know, journaling has saved your life, and I would fall into that same category. For me, it started when things were dire. And we either look to improve our life by doing something different, you know, creating more money or creating a business and filling those voids we have, or by changing the way we look at life. And when I tried so hard externally to fill the voids. And it wasn't working, I realized that I needed to change something entirely. And that's when I started writing. I was like, Why do I even need to win the sporting event? You know, why do I need to be successful? And you know, I just started there, like, why is this recurring. And I just followed, followed my nose and just dumped like you said everything out on paper, and I've journaled now for a number of years. And I've got it down to my own little art. And I can share my three core journaling prompts that I use as well with the audience if they want to do that. Properly. I've got a little course it's like 100 bucks on my website journaling mastery, called the three prompts. I call it the bulletproof journaling process, which is what are you feeling? What thoughts are creating this feeling? And then Question three is, what can I do about it? Now? Question three, we'll start from the top question, one straightforward. What are you feeling? It might be a good feeling might be a bad feeling, you know, good and bad? That's great. What is your perception that's causing it? Now, with this question, we need to sometimes dive deeper. Because if you say, you know, I'm angry with my friend. That's not enough to if you go, Well, what can you do about it? Question number three, there's not enough specificity to actually create change. So there are other questions, you can ask on number two within number two to dive a little bit deeper into the actual meaning you're applying to that situation with your friend. And then the last question is, what can what can I do about this, and there are, there are two parts to this one. We either change your mindset or two, we change the mechanics. So we either change our perception or we change what we're physically doing, the process we're doing. And I say to people change both, you know, if you're not happy with something, change it if you can't change it, change your attitude about it. And so then you dive into shifting your perception of it to take the sting out of it, take the emotion out of it bring you into a state of neutrality, and also, yeah, physically improve your life. What are some options? Do you need to start a business to get out of your shitty job? Do you need to get a job to get out of your shitty entrepreneurship? What do you physically need to do and when you can take the emotion out of it first, you're going to have clarity of mind, you're going to be creative, you're going to be inspired, and then your action is going to be empowered. So that's my bulletproof journaling process. That is a core of the work that I did to help me but also that I teach in the journaling, mastery.

Love it. So tell us gonna dig deeper on the on the journaling breakthrough. You said you just started writing but Wow, what was going on for you at that time? Like how dark was it?

Speaker 2 45:07

In the depths in the deepest depths of it, it was, I don't want to be alive. But I, you know, I drew a picture. I call it a mind map now, but I wrote what I was feeling, and it was depressed. And then I was like, so it was my process. I was like, what, what's causing this depression? And there were three things it was I didn't know who I was. I didn't know my purpose. was the other question might have been too. And then there was a flow on effect from that, which was okay. So therefore, I'm not, I'm confused. I'm not certain. Okay, so that's a feeling uncertain. Well, what are the thoughts causing that, and I followed the trend, there was just this pattern, this loop of behavior I called an addiction. So I, again, I've got lots of programs, but I've got a breaking addictions and patterns Mastery program. And there was this looping pattern playing out, which was just leading to, to chronic depression. And I like to draw things I don't know about anyone else. I'm really visual. And once I saw it on paper, I'm still eager, I still couldn't picture. It's still my journal, and I've got a picture of it. It's just, I could see, for the first time this pattern, I was playing out this habit. And I went, Okay, where's the it's like, a tower of cards, you pull out the right card, the whole lot will collapse. And I said, where is that? Where is that? And it was not knowing who I was, who am I? That was the question I needed to answer because from there, I could be more congruent, more evident business, more money, relief from my, my pain. And so that became my mission. What I became obsessed with authenticity, I built a free course called discover your authentic self, anyone can go through it ruthless authenticity.com. And through that journaling process in the deepest, darkest depths, that was the one I call it journaling. It was drawing. That was the one thing that gave me clarity. All of my other journaling was about I guess you could call it emotional relief, and understanding, you know, I went into relationships, I got rejected that hurt. I felt unworthy. Again, I would just dive deep into a feeling unworthy, what's causing that what can I do about it. And a lot of people might do it once. I just did it for every single thought, belief era of my life. And I'm gonna cheer up in my room that I sit in. And I'm very grateful that I've had the time to be able to do this because of the fact that I'm an entrepreneur, and I can sort of work my own hours. But I wrote for hours and hours, hours on end on the unworthiness on the pain on the beliefs that were causing that the perceptions on, you know, this, if there was one girl specifically, that really busted me up. And it was understanding the infatuations that I had with her, the fact that I then was sliding between this attachment to her, and this resentment and of her for hurting me, clearing all of those emotions out until I got back to that centered that center point within myself, if that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned that a few times, and it's a, it's a really important point is that is coming back to center because you can get pulled in all sorts of extremes in lots of different areas of life. You mentioned that you just started writing. Now. I'm curious to know how you went from in those dark places to just starting writing? Because generally, there's got to be something that triggers you to action. Was it a someone? Did you read something? Like what was the turning point from those depths to to having gotten a lot of people in that in that depressed state that they'd like, I can't do anything. So what was the trigger to get you starting to take action?

Speaker 2 49:11

Two things first thing, I'm not the type of person to not do anything. So if you are the type of person to not do anything, this might not resonate with you. I I take action. But what got me to turn to journaling was I paid coaches to help me I paid people to help me. And none of them. None of them did I the last coach, I paid this was an amazing moment in my life. I paid this lady, this healer $8,000 For four sessions. Some people might think that's expensive. It's pretty normal if you're getting into really good quality services, and I paid eight grand for four sessions. I had two sessions with her and quit. I said This is the most if I showed anyone, the misters is the most fucked up experience that you could have. And I remember calling it quits and I said, Hey, look, if you give a refund, I would love to get that on the foreground back because I'm in a pretty rough financial position with with cash. And she said, No, I don't give refunds. And I just, I was like, okay, cool. I went and sat on my chair, and I started journaling. And the reason I started writing was because I had tried paying people I had tried, quote, unquote, everything, even though there's always something else to try. But I tried everything. And I went, I am the only person that is going to be able to make sense of what's going on in my mind, she didn't understand me, she'd never been through it. So I had no rapport with her. So I just turned to myself. And I went, looked on your trained coach, and I don't recommend this be around, but I went, You're a trained coach, you're very well versed in psychology, you can figure this out you you understand spirituality to a very high level, you can figure this out. But you've got to, you've got to do it out of your head, because I was just overthinking and going in circles. So that was a huge catalyst for me to put pen on paper.

That's good. And I think anyone who's got any coaching has had some sort of experience law, that hasn't been the best. And to me, I, initially, with all of those things, put blame on them. But ultimately, it comes back to we got to be clear on what you're actually looking for. So that's where the journaling process helps, because then you can get clear in your own head, you can allow your unconscious mind to start doing the sorting for you. Not feeling what you have to do at all. Mike, thank you for sharing that. Because that's that's really powerful stuff. You mentioned you've got addiction training. Now, from my experience, everyone has some form of addiction. What was your addiction?

Speaker 2 51:49

Six. Six, was an addiction. So there was a few things. Going to the gym, everyone is addicted. That's what a habit is. It's addiction, right. So go into the gym. But again, I could talk about this for hours, you can either do something from an empowered place, or disempowered place. If it's from an empowered place your hearts open, you're doing it because you love it. If it's from a disempowered, place, your hearts closed, you're doing it because you're trying to get the outside world to make you feel better. So go to the gym, for me was an open hearted I loved it. But during my times of depression, I leaned on not just going to the gym, but my physical appearance in order to get attention and get those hits of dopamine from other people complimenting me. So that was a you call it an addiction. I'm not a bad looking chat. Sex was another thing I would lean on having and it wasn't even necessarily the sex. It was having a number of woman my options were open to have sex with at any one time. And that would fill those voids as well. You know, there's connection there's intimacy, the sex with woman. So those were some things I leaned on, pretty heavily aside from that. No substance abuse, nothing. No, nothing like that. But um, yeah, again, if you saw my mind map is a arrow coming off to the side and it says, Jim, you know, physical appearance six loop pattern looping back around unworthiness. So yeah, that was my big, I guess distraction from the pain.

And you mentioned a really important thing there right, getting needs met and attention. And so for me that my realization that anger had been covered addiction, because that's where I got attention. I'd got attention doing that my whole life. And it's like, it was one of those slap in the moment moments where you're like, huh, so this is probably not something that's not talked about about addiction enough, right is like, you might think you're broken, you might think there's something wrong with you, you might think it's someone's phone, you might blame all these different things. But ultimately, it's just a childhood pattern of, of having needs met that's playing out, right.

Speaker 2 54:00

Yeah, every thought action and behavior is a strategy to meet a need. That's a that's the basis of psychology or the psychology I teach. Everybody is just trying to meet needs like you through anger. Someone buying a dog, it's all just a strategy to meet a need. Yeah.

Even even people playing out the worst of the worst behavior still catastrophizing yet with the belief that they're gonna feel better from doing it this is gonna be such a great interview for the people listening to this, a tad confronting I imagine because we're covering some big stuff, but I think it's really important and if you've come this far that it's curious enough, so well done. Um, like I said, there's usually patterns of behavior from childhood. From my experience, these patterns have been playing out generation after generation. What was the predominant patterns that you got from your mom and dad that you recognize then later as a coach that had been been playing out from those younger years

Speaker 2 55:08

that's a great question. And maybe I haven't become aware of it yet. I was definitely the black sheep from my family. You know, my mom smoked, my dad smoked, my stepdad smoked, my brother smoked, my sister smoked. I never smoked. All of them have jobs. I'm an entrepreneur. So I'm very black sheepish. So maybe there is stuff I'm not aware of. I'm sure there is stuff I'm not aware of.

So let me ask another way. How did you get attention when you were young?

Speaker 2 55:34

Yeah, high achiever. By being good at something, or, or winning something? That's how I, you know, well done, John. It's also okay, I'll, I'll do that, again, to get you know, for me as I played football, that was, I was the Starchild essentially really good at football really good at inventing things or being creative, you know, toilet paper, and sticky tape and making all sorts of little inventions little, you know, a marble maze type thing. That so that was that was my strategy. It was from building, that's probably where the entrepreneurship as well came from,

or 100%. Like you look at what you've described there, right, high achievement and inventing things. That's like, that's exactly what you're doing now. I'll just ask you a question. So I can let the dog in. You're gonna keep scratching. So what's, what's your proudest invention, then in business? Not necessarily for the impact that it's had, but just something that you did that you just made it? I fucking love this?

Speaker 2 56:48

Believe it or not? And maybe this isn't the answer you're looking for. But I've built my own frameworks for Total Life Mastery, and mental and emotional mastery, to such a degree that I can teach people and show people essentially, what's going on in their mindset, and how to bring them into that. I've talked about it a few times how to seem to themselves and it could call liberate their mind to come into that state of equanimity. And it's a, I'm gonna, you know, I've got all of this knowledge and wisdom, but I've never unless someone's paid a lot of money. I've never taught it. But what I'm doing now is I'm starting to give it away, because I feel that unless it's out there, people aren't going to know about it. Right? So I'm, I'm gonna start writing more articles about these frameworks I have, without question. That's the greatest invention, because it's the I would call it the key to life. Because once you master your mind and emotions, you're free. You're free from the suffering of the world, you could call it. So I think it's the greatest, greatest invention by a lot a long, long way.

I love that. But the thought that came to mind for me, is your free have given a fuck what anyone else thinks anymore?

Speaker 2 58:11

That, yeah, you're free. You know, you're in control internally, instead of that, you know, the outside world controlling you and manipulating you. Yeah.

And you can speak your truth and people can react or they want to react. And that's fine. You can have a different truth. But I'm not going to have a fight with you about it. Like you can, you can have a different truth. What to me, like, Yeah, I do believe it because I think any good coach has got to have a framework. And it's got to be a framework based on their unique journey through life. And then allows because the framework, you're not telling them everything they do, but you're given the framework so they can take their own journey. I think that's critical. And so I love that because that's, for me, that's one of the things too, was what it is. It's not only a reflection of how you help people, but it's a reflection of your own journey. I imagine your framework is all of the things you've overcame, how you overcame them, and then being able to pay that forward. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 59:03

Yep. Yeah, I love it. It's what I'm on earth to do. You know, I help people in business or different contexts. But what really I'm proud of and lots me up is that emotional, mental and emotional mastery framework. Yeah. Love it. How did you come

to be on stage with Robin Sharma.

Speaker 2 59:25

This was going on was this maybe 2020? It wasn't just Robin Sharma. And I must add, it was a virtual stage. So it was during COVID It's in person, but there was, you know, Liz Brown, Robin Sharma, Tony Robbins, Dr. John Demartini. You know, what's your name? Mel Robbins, all really well known people. I got invited to speak alongside them. Through a friend of mine, Joel Brown, so he a week Mike did. We become really great friends? And he said, dude, you've got a lot to share a lot of wisdom. And he said, like, there's a big event going on. I've been asked to speak, would you want to be part of it? At that time, I was teaching about wealth. And so I said, Yeah, I would, I would love that opportunity. So I went on a night talk was talking about wealth creation from a strategic standpoint, but also mentally and emotionally. And I did really, really well, I'm, you know, if you, essentially if you do well, you have a good reputation, they'll invite you back. So I had a number of appearances and got to speak alongside all of my all of my heroes, the only one that, you know, Joe Dispenza has been a bit of a hero of mine, and I haven't spoken alongside him, but all the others I have. So that was, that was the pathway to to that experience. But even my pathway to becoming friends with Joel is a really incredible story within itself. Because it was, as COVID was happening, he was going to be speaking at one of my retreats, I didn't really know him, and the retreat got cancelled. He was stuck in Morocco. And I actually tried to help him get home from Morocco back to Bali. And then he goes, thanks so much for helping, he's like, I think I'm gonna go into Australia. If I come to Australia, maybe we should catch up. I said, that's fine. I'd never met him. Never met him in person. And he he built Do you know, Joel?

I recognize the name, but I don't know him personally.

Speaker 2 1:01:23

He built addicted to success. It's, it's, it sounds something like 300 million downloads, the his podcasts and the website. It's, it's an it's a bit older now. But um, yeah, very successful entrepreneur. He was on the thinking, Grow Rich moving. Anyway, he came to Australia, and he said, Hey, doesn't matter. Do you mind if I stay with you for for a couple of weeks, and I really looked up to this guy. And I said, Look, that would be great. He came, He turned up at my front door, which is I mean, I'm at home now in the studio, with a suitcase. And within a week of being here, we went into lockdown. And we were locked down together for six months in my house. And we just became really great friends. And it was during that time that he said, Dude, you are on, you should go and speak with these guys. So that's that's sort of how it unfolded.

I love that. Divine Intervention almost right? Like you were meant to spend that time. Whether he liked it or not. Loved it. That's cool. And you also mentioned that part of that competitive streak led you to get a Guinness World Record. So yes, hear that story.

Speaker 2 1:02:32

When I exited this destructive relationship back in 20, sort of in 2016. All I knew from my previous self was sports and winning. And so I said to myself, like throw yourself back into that you'll find yourself again. And I always wanted to get a Guinness World Record before I died. And as an athlete, I love to gymnastics exercise called a muscle up. So I looked on the Guinness World Records website, if there was anything related to a muscle up that I could try and do and there was, and it was 24 hours straight, as many strict ring muscle ups as possible, which just gives me goosebumps now, because that's just the name all over it. I can from the military, I can just work for 24 hours and our problems. And I love muscle up. So I yeah, I thought this is it, this is gonna get me back on my feet. Just

describe the actual what's a muscle up.

Speaker 2 1:03:29

So if you can imagine the gymnastics rings are sort of hanging just out of your reach, and you just turn rings, you jump up and you grab the rings and you're hanging from the rings. From that hand position without moving your body, you've got to pull yourself up to the rings, and then pull yourself over the top of the rings and then push the rings down to your hips. So you then finish the movement with the rings at your hips and you're sort of floating up in the air. And then you have to lower yourself down again, all the way to the bottom. Arms are straight at the bottom and then you can let go. If you want to let go. You can keep doing more. So that's

serious, serious strength,

Speaker 2 1:04:03

strength, a lot of strength. And then obviously, you do have 24 hours. It's strength and endurance. So I did that in September 2017 sent all the evidence off to the Guinness World Records people I had the admin was worse than the actual event. It was central the video footage off they approved the Guinness World Record so I got that. But it made no change to my level of self worth.

Because you're about to say like you're looking for something to sort of transform your life and I cut you off. Yeah, and it's not what you found.

Speaker 2 1:04:43

Now Now I still felt still felt this huge hole, huge hole of lack of self worth and worthiness.

I must have given you a bunch of the time that right?

Yeah, for about two weeks.

I think that's Part of the competitive urge. And, and that's not to say that's a bad thing, but it's better not to replace what should be there. It's a it's a pastime, rather than it being necessarily purposeful. So did that start a journey of okay, well, how do I fill this hole?

Speaker 2 1:05:18

Yeah, yep, it all started. It was all happening around that time, the more I tried to get external success and realize that that didn't fill me in. The more lessons I got about well, yeah, what, what is what is this feeling? I'm feeling? I just became obsessed, absolutely obsessed with understanding mind and emotions. Yeah, yeah, I did. And like you said, it's part of little little secret for everyone your your voids are what actually gives you motivation in life. So don't, don't expect ever to not feel like something is missing. Because that little bit that's missing is going to drive you it's going to drive you to go and get food, if you're hungry, something's missing foods missing, okay, I'll go get food, if you feel lonely, will connections missing, you're gonna go and get connection. So there is a disempowering way of doing it and an empowering way of doing it. But if you're expecting to feel whole for the rest of your life, you'll never get there. You'll never get there.

Yeah, so lots of contrasts and identify the contrast and then take action in the in the direction you want to go. Yeah, the other thing is, and this will be good for all the big hearted people on here. When you fill that void, and you learn to fill that void, then you can pay it forward to someone. And that's one of the best parts right? Then being able to show someone else what you've learned through the process. Yeah. Awesome. So John, what's a

what's a message that you'd love to leave with the audience that they can take away with themselves, to empower them in their future. And that's a pretty open conversation, but it must be one thing for you that's had a had an impact that, that they'll be able to implement straightaway.

Speaker 2 1:07:24

I would say that there's always a solution. And so wherever you are, whatever you're going through whatever you're experiencing, even if you feel like you've tried everything. There's always a solution always. And it is that is life. Life is a series of problems and you finding solutions. There is no day where you are alive. And you get to this this utopia when there are no more problems that doesn't exist. So if you feel like something's wrong with you, if you feel like life is harder than it's meant to be, if you feel like all of those things, everybody has problems, some of my friends, multi millionaires, they got problems, like I do, they feel emotions, like I do, makes no difference. So just focus on your own journey. Focus on solving your problems. And make that the, the center of your life. That's what I would say.

Love it. So good. And it's more than okay for you to do that. You're not being selfish, as you may have been taught from a traditional perspective. It allows you to be the best for everyone in your life when you're when you're prioritizing that. That's a cracker.

Speaker 2 1:08:49

Osho is one of my spiritual mentors. And he says it because most spiritual people teach selflessness. He's like, No, I teach 100% selfishness. Because the more selfish you are, the more you fill yourself up, the more selfless you can be. So absolutely. Yeah, focus on solving your problems. Yeah,

I agree. 100%. John, where can people find out more about you and check out some of your courses that you've got?

Speaker 2 1:09:19

John Templeton official that's on Instagram John Tim from official Facebook, John Templeton official website, John Templeton. official.com Go there and send me a message. I love connecting interacting. So yeah, add me on those places. Send me a message. And yeah, let's let's connect.

And if you feel so cool. pick a fight with your one of your posts as well.

Speaker 2 1:09:45

Yeah. The one I have you seen? We've seen yesterday's one. I don't.

I'll go check it out after this. And like 250 comments

on it's going, going wild.

It's all opportunity for people to learn right?

Exact With including me.

Well, well said love that that's a great way for us to finish. John, thank you so much for sharing this chat. I've enjoyed it so much, so much goal for the people listening.

Speaker 2 1:10:10

Amazing. And thank you for having me and everyone else. It's been great. If you're still here, thank you for staying with us.

Well said, I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief, let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform