Ep 414 - Walking As A Widow with Dixie Carlton

Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back, you've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it and what to do next. Before we start by one request, if any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the Ian Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this word, I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it. As is often the case with my guests, there's a certain mirroring to my own journey, not for the whole thing, but just certain elements. And the part that I really want to highlight from this chat today is the part that Dixie mentioned is around the the the unresolved and unknown stuff from prior to her big moment of grief that she realized came to the surface when she started getting counseling for the moment that she'd been through and really shows how much not just our moment of grief impacts us but but everything related to that area that comes flooding to the surface. Dixie became a widow 25 years ago, and she shares her story of how of the challenges that came also that what came up from a previous divorce and past patterns from her upbringing. It's a real powerful one around finding more of that purpose of the benefits the positives of a midlife crisis, whether that's through losing someone or another major life event. And then how you navigate that going forward afterwards. Enjoy this chat with Dixie calm. Everyone, and welcome to my guest this week. Dixie column, how ADC.

Speaker 2 2:15

Great. You going? Great. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Ian Hawkins 2:19

You're welcome. Already a little drop out. So hopefully that audio keeps up. But we'll we will persist and see how are you? Now generally, in your line of work, you're helping other people to tell their stories. So it's an honor for me to help you share your story today. And we're going back for your big moment, 2526 years ago, share for the listeners what unfolded for you and the impact that had?

Speaker 2 2:49

Well, I was happily married to my second husband had a seven year old son, we were working on having another baby. We've been together seven years. We recently got married about nine months earlier. And he fell sick unexpectedly had mystery illness. And it was all very unusual and weird. And no one knew what was going on. And we then found out we were pregnant. And then a few weeks after that it was all over over. He unfortunately passed away after a fairly short battle with some unknown at the time, illness, mystery illness. So I had to suddenly pick up my my boots and carry on and figure out life at that point at the age of 31. Wow.

Ian Hawkins 3:41

So you say mystery like you did you eventually find out what had happened.

Speaker 2 3:49

They did find out there was a funny story, sort of the reality was was that he had been on antibiotics a few weeks earlier. And like many people didn't take the full course of antibiotics. And many of us have a something often sort of lingering inside of us. In order immune situation that's waiting to flare up. And in this instance, the not taking the full course of antibiotics was the trigger for that to basically flare up. And it was an unusual illness. Something called dermatome myositis which affected his organs. And because it's something that doesn't normally affect young fit healthy 14 year olds, it was something that took a while to diagnose and they still didn't really confirm the diagnosis until after he passed away. So it was one of those touch and go we're not sure what's happening induced comas. That all happened over about three or four weeks. The whole process from start to finish of the first sniffles and not being well was five weeks until he passed away. So it was really sudden, really?

Ian Hawkins 5:03

Now I know that there's no comparison and there's no, I guess, having more time doesn't necessarily make the loss any better or worse or anything. Just the speed of how that unfolded? How did that? Was that significant for you? In terms of making sense of it?

Speaker 2 5:25

It was? It's a great question. It was one of those things. And over the many years since I've had an opportunity to talk to people, and I am possibly a little Pollyanna ish, and by nature, but I remember thinking at the time, that in many times later that it was good to have had that little buffer of five weeks, five or six weeks, from start to finish of your life suddenly turning upside down, as opposed to a knock on the door because someone had an accident, which, in many ways is devastating. Also, you know, silver lining, and that it wasn't something that lingered on for several years, where everything declined. And that's such the life and the love, and, you know, the, the the ability to continue to pick yourself up. So we were lucky in that respect. There was also the reality that I could look back and say, this was a really happy man who felt that he had achieved everything he wanted to achieve. Because I remembered were driven down the road towards home after a long weekend away, just a few weeks earlier. And he driven slowly up the road. And I remember saying to him, Come on, why are we driving so slow home, we've been away for three days, let's get home. And he said, I just want to take it in. I love where we live. I love my life. I am so happy right now. And I'm just taking it all in. And this was just a few weeks before he passed away. So I know how much of a great place he was in. And he would have been miserable. Had he been someone who had to sort of deal with two or three years of lingering ongoing issues. So we're a little highlights little moments that you could look back on and say, well, thank you universe, that was actually an okay way for that to have unfolded in some way.

Ian Hawkins 7:18

Yeah. And I, one of my staff that I was managing back in my corporate days, we'd done him and I'd done a fair bit of work on himself and, you know, become a heap of stuff. And his life was just like, like you described them for the first time he was happy, he had a new girlfriend, and so he's 25. And then same thing, he dies really suddenly, like in a fun run. And it's like, struggling to make sense of that. that's eventually where I landed a few years later was like, maybe, maybe he had everything that he ever wanted in life. And I don't know. Yeah, and I don't know the, the details of that. And I don't, I don't begin to profess that I understand it. But to me, it's just a it's a way for me to make sense of something that doesn't like a 25 year old man just suddenly dropping dead like it's not. So I don't know if that resonates to you about like the the the tried to make sense of it. In the years that passed.

Speaker 2 8:26

You know, I think you go through a lot when you go through something like this, and you start to try and figure out lots of ways to make sense of life, death, everything in between. And one of the things that I've concluded as part of my ongoing life, is the fact that, you know, you're here for a reason. And sometimes when your purposes complete, it's time for you to move on. And maybe the whole purpose of my experiencing that and humbling in my life, up to that point was to ensure that my life then unfolded the way it did beyond that, and my children as well. And my son, my youngest son, said a couple of really interesting things to me when the first student when he was about 12 years old, maybe a little bit younger, 10 or 12. And the second time he said it, he was about 16. And he said to me, Mum, I'm okay, that dad's not here, because as much as I know, we would have been great together, I would have loved him and you know, he was a really great dad and all that. And he was a good dad to his older brother. The fact that it's so Aleksey to me, I'm okay that he's not here. Because if he was my life would be so different. And then he recounted all the reasons why he thought his life would be so different and how he was completely happy. My life was the way of the service I have the relationships I have with you and my brother, my Nana and myself. Have based on how this is, if he was here, it would be different. And I'm okay with how it is. I thought it was incredibly profound for a young boy to say, and they've had to repeat that a few years later. But that also helps to make sense of what happens. And I feel the same way

off goosebumps all through that like, to me that says two things that like, that's an old soul, who knows what's what, right. But it also it's a real sign of his mum having gone through something and done a heap of work on herself. Because that doesn't happen by accident, right? Like, I've had, I've had other parents say to me, specifically around football around, you know, like, the, the attitude of my son, right, rather than anything to do with his ability, but his attitude? And it's like, yeah, well, that's like, I can safely say, No, that's not an accident, like, I was doing a really bad job of being a parent up until the point when my dad passed and like, used to, like you talked about there, it's like, you want to change, so you do and things get better. And it's like, then that gets passed on to your children. And that, to me, it's the greatest gift of, of going through this sort of grief, and then coming out the other side and working on yourself to be better. Does that does that sort of resonate for you as well?

Speaker 2 11:22

It really does. And I look back and I know, interestingly enough, I have a couple of really good friends who are still in the same situation that they started out at around that time. So for example, one of my husband's really good friends. You know, we were we were good friends, you know, him and his wife, and we all sort of used to socialize together. Well, they've now just reached retirement stage. And they're doing they've done the, the beach house on the, you know, very wealthy, extravagant, you know, fabulous lifestyle, and then the last 2530 years. So they've kind of followed that, that trajectory that I've been able to sit back and say, I would have been that same card, we would have been that life. If this hadn't happened. And I know happier knowing that my life happened this way. Or am I happier? Knowing that my life happened? What might have you know, would I have been happier? Here's the, you know, long term corporate existence, you know, executive wife. And the reality is I'm actually happier. The way this has worked out, I don't think I would have been a very happy long term, executive wife for 30 odd years, different sort of scenario. And it's interesting to be able to look at that and observe that. But hey, it's, it's wonderful. To be able to have that ability to reflect that way. That doesn't mean that it wasn't incredibly difficult. But with time comes perspective. And with time comes the ability to deal with those grief issues. And,

yes, I could go,

Speaker 2 13:06

No, I was just gonna say, you know, it's 25 years for me 2526 years coming up. But some years, it's still a big thing. Some years, you're hurt by the reality of well, this is what life would have been like, I wonder if we would still have been happily married, I wonder if we would still have been doing this. If we had been living the way, you know, that long term trajectory would have been? Would that have made us better people, happier people? Were having more children, therefore, which would have happened? Would that have made us happier people? Would the lack of fulfillment and the career that I wouldn't have had been better or worse. So there's lots of ways that you look at it with with hindsight. But to be honest, too, it took me nearly 18 years to actually stop just putting one foot in front of the other and realize that, yeah, that was tough. That was really tough. And I hadn't really thought about it until around 18 years later, when the kids were no longer needing me to be the same kind of mother that I was when they were younger. Yeah.

I'll come back to that. I got a bit distracted there because I was drawn to a conversation we had. So we'll get to more of what you do but but you're you you help people to publish their nonfiction books and and you run a monthly call, which I was on, and we talked about this same subject, right. And I wanted to find your exact quote, because I wrote it down. But it was like, it was like two words to the effect of the purpose of the midlife crisis is to put us on the path that we were born to be on. Yes, and And you talked about them around your own journey and, and even what your son was saying. It's like we can, we can waste our years thinking about how things could have been and stuck in our own misery around what's happened. Or we can say, well, I want things to be different. And I'm going to use, I'm going to honor the memory of this person. And I'm going to do the best I can to make sure that yeah, I've given it absolutely everything I have. And in what's not a infinite time here on Earth.

Speaker 2 15:38

Yeah, that's, that's a really good way of putting it. Yeah. There's nothing like I was talking to someone just just today, in fact, an elderly lady who mentioned that she has outlived her parents lifespan. And, you know, I've now outlived my husband by 17 years on where he got to. And so that as well is something that makes you think, Well, okay, there's no time to waste sitting and not making the most of that extra time is most blessed for us.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and I would have lived much the same life as what you described. Without that happening, I would have continued down the path I was on flogging my, you know, myself in a corporate world, and my children would have missed out and my wife would have missed out and other people in my life would have missed out because I would have just kept going that same trajectory. And I, again, it's a product of someone who's done a fair bit on themselves to have that realization. So yeah, that's, that's awesome. Dixie,

Speaker 2 16:49

someone said to me a few years ago, everyone has some form of cancer. Excuse me, you don't get to midlife or through midlife without having something that trips you up. And you know, whether it is cancer, for real, or whether it's some other sort, whether it's your best friend dying, or your partner or your or a child, or, or a major calamity of some description. Yeah, at some point, you will reach that crossroads of moments where you have to suddenly decide who you are, and who you want to be. And sometimes it takes that massive earthquake under your feet, for you to actually sit and say, Okay, time to change. And, you know, you get to midlife or late life by good luck, not by good management, or sorry, more by luck than by good management. And then you've got to figure out what you're going to do with the lessons that you pick up along the way. Because everything's a crossroads moment, if you look at it in some ways.

Yeah, absolutely. We lost determined by how the decisions we make in every moment or decisions that we don't make. Now. Yep. You mentioned before we jumped on that. You've been through a really messy divorce. And you but you had a child, and you talked about your youngest son before but your oldest son, my son, right? Yes. Yeah. And you said one of the hardest parts when, when your second husband died, was having to tell return your elements,

Speaker 2 18:30

I was a fairly abusive, first husband, and we have a son. And through the years that I was worth, Christopher, you know, he was a big part of helping us to me and and pick ourselves up and, you know, move forward from that. I was first marriage diagnosed with depression. You know, it was tough. Probably the toughest time, you know, looking back was those years, right, or that marriage ending and the calamitous results of being in such a toxic relationship. By comparison, surviving widowhood was completely different. But but easier on so many levels, you know, you don't have to sort of sit there and divide up the crockery and throw plates at each other and have all that terrible memory to have to deal with. You've only got memories, if you're lucky. So it's a completely different sort of situation. But Christopher had been our rock and he picked us up and he was a great dad to my son, our son. So it all unfolded and of course, we didn't realize that he was going to die. We thought he was going to get better and kind of happened fairly quickly. And I was talking with my late husband's best friend and his wife just a few nights ago, about what it was like because when Chris passed away, his best friend can pick me up in the middle of the night because the doctors call Don't save, you know, he's just gone. And so they came, picked him up, picked me up, took me to the hospital, and the other friend came and picked up my older son, and, you know, relocated him back to the house for the night. And so he knew in the morning that something had happened because we're both sleeping at their house. And so I had to sit down in the morning and tell him what have happened. And the seven year old, whose life I knew was about to be completely devastated. I would literally stuck for words, I know when people say, Now, I was stuck for words, or you know, the words wouldn't come out, the words would not come out. And I've never had trouble saying anything in my life, but the words will not form in my mouth. And I remember working in my head on what I what I had to actually speak, and then sign it. And but yeah, that that was the hardest thing. And I still everything in my whole life, through all ups and downs, there's still a single hardest thing I've ever had to do was to tell him. And it was interesting. I mean, we were very tight. The two of us and then of course, my next son was son arrived. And the three of us have always been incredibly tight as a small family who rely on each other. And again, you know, going back to what my youngest son said, hey, you know, I'm okay with the way life turned out. Because the relationships that I have with you and my brother and my Nana, testament to how well we all handled all of that going forward. But, you know, I'm quite convinced that we had you know, Christopher's sort of in the background there somehow watching out for us and making sure we got through the arguments on the times that was stressful, and the moments of indecision and things that you have, you know, as you go through life, completely convinced he was there, just watching over us and making sure that you know, folks were okay, so, yeah, but black humor, let me just talk about that for a moment, I have the most hilarious conversations with other widows and widowers who have talked about the weird things that happen, or the way people responded, or the way things unfolded. And the hilarity that sometimes comes with those bumps in the night, and there really are bumps in the night. So you know, that's funny. And you do find some, some solace in that humor. And my husband was a ridiculously over the top practical joker. So when we went during the funeral, which was picked, and I spoke at the funeral, and he was well known for being a very, very good practical joker. And my, my mother and I both spoke at the funeral. And, and she said that, you know, mentioned that I was pregnant. And I remember a few people saying, afterwards, that with this opposite this, Alex was due to be born on the first of April. And we said that was a practical joke. They thought that's really off color, like terrible. Oh, you know, Jixi that's that's just going too far. And so people didn't necessarily believe it. They thought that someone was taking this taking them lucky. Oh, my God, really? Funny things It just happened. Just like, I got your real pregnant. Oh my god, how does that work?

Well, let me talk you through it. Wow. Yeah. I relate to a lot of that than having to call my siblings to try and speak and no words coming out the humor. Like I can remember, you know, after my dad passed, we're all sitting there in the waiting room. And it was a mixture of tears and then laughter and, like, it's just a great coping mechanism. I think the only time it comes a problem is when people feel bad about having moments of humor or even happiness in amongst that. It's not now it's just part of the process. And it's okay, so, thank you for shining a light on that. Can I'm gonna come back to the bumps of the night because that seems to come up with anyone that is on here in the past, but if you don't mind, I just like to ask more about the light that time because if it happened quickly, you said he was in a coma induced coma or so so when you go home that night, is there any The expectation or possibility that you might get that phone call?

No, there wasn't. Because if there was, I would have stayed at the hospital that night.

Speaker 2 25:11

There was no, there was no awareness that that was going to happen. Well, in hindsight, there probably was, but because the doctor that we spoke to that afternoon, was quite emotionally distraught. But also bearing in mind, Princess Diana had died two days earlier. So everyone was on each about lots of things. And we knew that there was another young woman in the intensive care unit, who was also dealing with a mystery illness, because her husband and I, we've had conversations in the corridor. So you know, I didn't necessarily read into the doctor being quite upset that afternoon, enough to realize that, hey, we're at a critical, really critical point. Because if I had, I would have stayed at the hospital and not gone home. So when I got the call at midnight, at 1030, there was not that realization that it was going to happen, there was not that kind of wake up feeling of, oh, something's wrong. There was just this disbelief. So the bumps in the night, and the oddities that came up, came up. And I firmly believe this, but some of my journeys post, entering the journey of widowhood was an awareness that when people pass over, if it's unexpected, they'll hang around for quite a long time, because they want to be? Well, I'll rephrase that. They hang around, because sometimes they're not aware that they've died. And I hope that's not too out there for a lot of people. But

at this point, it'll be right on point. Yeah, if someone's

Speaker 2 27:07

died, suddenly, often, they don't realize that that's what's happened. And if they have expected to pass away, they may only hang around in spirit, till after the funeral, just to kind of make sure everything's okay. And kind of out of curiosity more than anything. But if it's unexpected, they may stay for quite a lot longer, because they'll feel that they have still got unfinished business. But it also takes them a while to realize, and spirit that the other person in the coffin, or that the other person who's not there, and it's a very strange awareness to have. And there were a few things that happened around the time. Those few days after Chris died, that made me very aware of that condition, he

doesn't share.

Speaker 2 27:56

Well, um, he went to the funeral home. And we're standing there sort of me, my mother, and there were a couple of other people with us. And I just remember seeing him standing in the room with his arms folded, looking really, you know, done to us, like he was said, and wondering who we were there to see. And I remember saying to my mother, Chris is here, and he's really curious about how that hoop started. And she looked at me as if I had rocks in my head, which is understandable. Because everybody thought I was just, you know, probably going to go off the deep end, which I didn't. But, you know, there was a conscious awareness of everyone watching me because most of our close friends knew that I had depression and had dealt with depression as well. But, but I just remember him being there, and very clearly seeing him standing there wondering who had died. And then, and they will do funny things at the funeral. And later that made me realize that that was that was his way of dealing with it was what's going on here? Like, who is this? What's happened? And he kind of hung around for about five years, five and a half years to be exact. I don't know if we have time for me to tell you the other unusual bit of the story, but

yeah, please so.

Speaker 2 29:32

So about five and a half years after he died, I had gotten used to him turning up every now and then sort of feeling like he was sitting there in the car with me talking or, you know, feeling him, you know, walk into the kitchen on the other side. Are you okay? Are you happy honey, things like that. Being aware that my baby in particular, was often aware of someone in the room and would laugh and have you know, funny things go on. first started, I knew that he was around and I just got used to them. I thought, oh, maybe that's what's always happening. And I remember a couple of times going out on a couple of dates and thinking, Okay, well, you just need to kind of not be here today. No, no, no peeking, then having a bit of a laugh about it. But five and a half years after he died, I was speaking at an event and I woke up having had a dream that he was going on holiday without me. And he was going on holiday in his car. And that he was gonna leave me behind and start weighing on this not fear. And I remember waking up with this really strong feeling about that. Well, I've never dreamed about him before. And I was speaking at an event the next day, and there was a psychic on who's renowned to be psychic at that point. They're also in the lineup for the speakers. And at morning tea time, I said, Hey, this really weird dream last night, you know, I really briefly told him what what it was. And without actually telling you that, you know, I was dreaming about my deceased husband, I just sit on my husband's wanted to go on holiday without me. And I was dreaming about this. And she said, Honey, it's time to let him go. He's got it. He's got to move on now. And I remember thinking, Oh, wow, that's interesting. And so the day and went home that night, and it was a Tuesday night. And my mother always had my son's on a Tuesday night. So I could go walking with my neighbor down the river on the on a Wednesday morning. And so, Wednesday morning rolls around, and I get up and I go down to the street to walk with my neighbor. And she doesn't turn up. And so I went up to her house, to her front door, and I knocked on the door, and she didn't answer. And I thought, Oh, that's really strange. Turns out later, she'd never slept on before, but she slipped in, never didn't hear the door knocking. It was like someone had just said, Hey, you know, but it was all very strange part of it. But she didn't hear me and she didn't wake up and she was late for work that day, first time ever in her life. Anyway, I get down to the bottom of the street and turn onto the river walkway. And I feel have a very strongly come and walk with me more strongly than normal. And, you know, he's walking along, and he's telling me how proud he is of me, the kids and you know, how, you know, how much he loves us and all that. And we get to the end of the walkway, and he gives me this beautiful, but hug. And then he literally walks into the light. He was like, okay, that's beautiful. And I remember feeling this incredible weight lifted off me. So tears streaming down all the way home, get home, and I'm having having these messages of, well, you know, it was his time and waste of time. So that was okay. And I'm feeling light. And I'm recognizing the difference between my grief and his grief over the past few years. So that was the first really big thing. And then, you know, I'm walking home. And I'm realizing, you know, tears and light sort of thing. And I'm seeing kind of signs of togetherness, like trees merge into three trees merge into one big tree, things like that. So it's symbolic things happening. And then I get home. And I realized I hadn't seen another single sold down the river that poor morning. And normally for busy town busy walkway, lovely Riverwalk, and I never saw another single soul that whole morning, I thought, Oh, that was really strange, too. And with Kate not being there. So all these things happened. And then that was kind of the beginning of a very, very powerful spiritual journey for me to start walking through, which kind of involved other beings coming in and starting to help me to understand a lot of things about life and death and hereafter. So that was a very interesting time. But about two years later, I was standing in the kitchen kind of half pie watching TV with, you know, the kids while I was watching while I was cooking dinner. And the Ghost Whisperer program started it was a pilot program. So this was before, this is what happened before that program. And if you've ever seen it, at the end of the Ghost Whisperer episodes, there will always be the walk into the light moment. And I remember standing there, probably my mouth wide open, just rigid thinking, Oh my God, that's exactly what it looks like. Yeah. And I remember thinking, Well, whoever created this show has obviously experienced that because that was exactly what it was like. And it was such a revelation to a greater degree, again, that I hadn't just imagined at all, that had been so extraordinary. So those sorts of things helped with the whole grieving process for me over the years. This understanding of you know, the timing and the gifts In the past, it was amazing. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's the important part is like if anyone's listening to these stories, because it comes up with lots of guests who have lost people to death is that validation comes in some form, I'm just thinking back to a client who was, was sitting on the bed talking to their partner, and, and suddenly, there's someone else sitting there too. And she's like, look, I don't want to freak out. But there's someone else, we're here with us. And he's a, he's a young guy about 2122. And he says, he knows you and, and says, there was an accident, and he just wanted to let you know that he's okay. And, and so she said his partner just like, was like, look like what looked like a ghost, but went turned white. And she, and he's like, how do you know that? And she's like, I don't know, I'm just telling you what I'm what I'm getting told. He is made a died in a rugby game at that age. And she was describing him and describing him exactly as he looked, of course, and, and again, it's that it's that validation piece that if we, if we're open to receiving it, we will receive it. And making sense of it how anyway you want. But I say this every time there's so much value in having that belief that they can be that contact? And why would you not want to be able to have that?

Speaker 2 36:36

Understanding to that sometimes the grief that you feel, the overwhelming level of grief that sometimes you feel is not only your own grief, but sometimes it's also the grief. Yeah, he agrees of not being with you the grief of seeing you so distraught.

Oh, I was actually gonna ask you that, because I was I was really struck by what you're saying there. And you're talking about being in that space? And, and your Chris's best friend been there as like, how were you conscious already at that point that you were kind of you've just lost your husband, but you were kind of supporting him at that time? And in?

Speaker 2 37:23

No, that wasn't really, I was very self absorbed. At that point. I was just focused on what am I going to do now? And how am I going to tell our son, you know, there's another baby. And you know, I went into a very, very strong mode of self absorption around that time. For a while, yeah.

You mentioned you had depression. So did the depression start? Like, you said, you had a messy divorce? Not long after the messy divorce? Or was it? Yeah,

Speaker 2 37:53

that was manifested by a very toxic relationship that I was in with my first daughter.

How long did that type of manifest.

Speaker 2 38:03

Um, we were married for five years, four years, four and a half years. And his narcissism revealed itself and quite revulsion ways, very soon after we married because we went overseas for a while so. So by the time we returned from that trip, I was feeling well under the thumb, and unaware of just how much I was. And so when it all kind of went to custard, about four years later, as our son was one at the time, and, and so I met Chris about eight months after that, but I had, I was diagnosed at around about that same point of that separation. And I had two and a half years, nearly three years with a psychologist on a very regular basis to just start working through things. But I'd had a feeling rough upbringing as well. So there were lots of things that needed to be unpacked overall. And, you know, there's there's so much truth to the the feeling glibly said these days, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. What doesn't kill you really does give you strength. And when you go through big things anyway, you are more prepared for dealing with the next big things. Like the fact that I had managed to survive some pretty awful stuff in those earlier years of my 20s meant that I was in a much better position to actually have some framing to put around then being a single parent and a widowed situation. It was a totally different drama, but it is a sin in some ways. Going through the really awful divorce was easy. It was harder than going through a widowhood situation where there had been such love and care and support, and I had been blessed to have had, you know, seven years with someone who had been such a great part of rebuilding me, or helping me to rebuild, and my son and I to re integrate and navigate our way through that post horrible divorce situation. So we were both stronger for that. And when you don't have to sort of suddenly, you know, worry about whether you can afford to feed yourself or whether you are going to have to split up the furniture and battle over the baby. This this a different way to approach how you cope with it. Yeah, yes. Yeah, it does make you stronger. And everything that you go through, and your whole life takes you to the next point. You know, I was thinking about this point, when I was waiting to come onto this call today. When you go through big stuff, when you have faced up to your worst possible nightmare, you really do not ever sweat the small stuff, you know, you you view, the big things that come along, that will trip up other people in a completely different way, because you have a better understanding of what your strengths are. And when I said before, you know, some years, it's still a big thing. You know, the biggest thing that I say to anyone going through a major grief situation now and I do get to talk to a lot of people about this is that you have to understand that it doesn't, doesn't solve itself, it doesn't resolve. But time does actually make it more manageable, your time makes it that you can then start to look back on the good things with less fear of looking and addressing the good stuff. And you have to trust in the process of time. As part of dealing with that grief. You know, grief happens over a long period of time. Because I think you need to be able to process things at the right pace for yourself. But you never sweat the small stuff. You never cry over spilt milk, when you've gone through dealing with the biggest things you could possibly deal with. And you're critically aware of that at various points in your life. Now, like I had a situation with my oldest son, that lasted a couple of years where he was also in a toxic relationship, and it impacted on our relationship for a couple of years. Thankfully, it has passed, thankfully, it has resolved itself. And I have my son back. But you realize, once again, well, I've already survived the worst possible thing I could possibly imagine. I can survive this, I can deal with this next thing, if I'm going to have to deal with this other big thing. Or if I'm going to have to help someone else deal with this other big thing. I know what it looks like, I know how to put that level of respect into what I need to do going forward to enable my ability to survive a something if this goes wrong. So it impacts you It changes you but it shapes so

Dixie that depression you said manifested after the divorce? Like what impact did it have on you? Like what what were you then unable to do? That you previously had been able to? Do?

You mean while I was still dealing with it? Yeah, like

so. Yeah. So did it just stop you in your tracks? Like what impact did it have on you physically, mentally, emotionally, like what?

Speaker 2 43:53

I, my weight plummeted. I was sorting photos of myself recently. And I remember thinking, oh my god, I look like a starving beer friend is my mother used to say when I was you know, we were children starving in Africa. And you look like one of the starving bear friends we just saw. Yeah, so I, I my weight plummeted. i My confidence was incredibly non existent. But I had been for a while. I mean, I've been eroded quite effectively by this person. But I eventually came back. When Kristen I was then worried. I remember saying to my doctor, does this mean I'm going to have to go back to dealing with depression. And he's, well, I think you've come a long way and I think you'll be okay. But he said you just need to remember that this is something that you will always live with. At some level. You just need to be continuing to work on your trails. And that was great advice because I was worried. And then as I say, after, you know that morning when Chris kind of did the passing over thing. I remember feeling that inquiry lifting of weight and realizing that I had distinguished really well over the years between depression, grief, my grief and his grief. And that morning, it was really clear to me what those differences were, because I can sort of almost identify them in a tangible way. So, I mean, I still like most people, I still live with depression, I still am mindful of my mental health on a regular basis. Winter is not a particularly good time for me. But I still choose chicken with myself. And if I'm worried, then I know how to deal with it. But it's been a journey, the entire last 30 years has been quite a journey.

Yeah, you mentioned that when you saw the psychologist after your marriage breakup, that there was a lot of previous stuff, I'd love to ask questions about that if I can, because I know that was my experience. And I think it's the part of grief, it's not talked about enough. It's it's not just the moment and that particular moment, but it's everything else that drags to the surface as a result. So is there anything from that you can share about what did come up and how you are able to process and move past that as well?

Speaker 2 46:23

Well, interesting. You know, I'm, I'm okay to talk about the open book, you know, whatever comes up in my life, I'm, I'm sure I've experienced them, because there's a purpose in my in being able to relate them in some way. On my ability to understand certain things in life. So I grew up in a, as a the eldest child in a fairly small family, and my mother was divorced. And then she took took up with someone who was quite violent. But she was also quite a bit at certain levels of parenting. So I've kind of parented her for the last 45 years or so, since I was about eight years old, and also been quite responsible for my younger siblings, and those years too. So as a result of that, I went off the rails a bit when I was a teenager, and dropped out of school and did some silly things and all that sort of thing. And I've only recently very recently been diagnosed with ADHD. And so when I look back, now, I look at some of that. And some of those times when I was perhaps blessed to have a short attention span, but also cursed with the heavy levels of responsibility that were placed on me as at a young age, and I look at what my teens then ended up being like, and I can see that by good luck, not by good management, I got through that, which is probably why I married young and didn't actually realize that my confidence was being compromised so much in that time. So I, I see that as a superpower in many ways, it's made me quite hyper alert to things and quite focused on different levels on things. But when I was dealing with the depression when that first round, because a couple of times, I've gone back to see psychologists again, just to kind of like his chicken and make sure that I'm actually not not going nuts when couple of big things happened, that are relevant to this conversation, but you know, every now and then you get an opportunity to go and sort of just chicken assignment was everything. Okay? Am I actually you know, all right. But I look back and can see that when I did the therapy with a psychologist in my 20s, that we unpacked a lot of stuff around relationships with my parents. And then how that related to my expectations of what my marriage should have been, like, grade one grade point, why I was willing to put up with so much awful stuff, when what I had observed was violence and separation and lack of communication and also had this attitude of, well, one thing if he ever hits me, I'm out was my mantra, like, never hits me. You know, I'm not gonna put up with it, because I've seen that in my mother's life. And it took until the very last of this toxic horrible relationship But for me to then finally realize when he finally did hurt me that he'd actually been beating me savagely with words, for a very long time. And I should have actually woken up to that earlier. But also, because I was this child of divorce in the 1970s, which wasn't necessarily well managed or fought off in those days, that I had this expectation of myself that, well, I'm, I'm, I have to make this work. And this is the bit I made for myself, I have to make this work, I'm not going to be like my mother. Again, you know, so you, you realize when you unpack things, that there's lots and lots of conditioning that you have as a child that if we understood, so I've just written a book about values. And I just want to say this, I've just written a book about values and understanding what your core values and your and your needs are, and do it fairly so. But in writing that, and understanding that I've realized that if we taught our children, to better understand our own values, and also to understand people's verse, same as yours, that there is an easier understanding of why people are bullies why people were narcissists such on that spectrum of, you know, caring or empathy. And also, why it's important for us to understand our values, so we can make decisions better about how we're treated, and what we're prepared to put up with. And I'd love to see people having those conversations with more kids. Because I think if I had that sort of understanding as a child, my life would have been very different. But hey, my life is the way it's supposed to have been. And it's worked out the way it's supposed to be. Now, I believe those things, maybe no one can make more sense of those things as I reflect on them occasionally.

Yeah. And then, as you said, help other people to see that reflect on it as well. Because like you rightly pointed out, you can't see it when you're in it. It's not until later when it's solid, when you have that epiphany and you're like, oh, man, I haven't seen this. You're just not ready. You're not ready to say it. But like an even what you described there as realizing that when he did be you that actually he'd been be the whole time some people don't even realize that. Yeah, and that's okay. It's just, it's a product of exactly as you describe, it was such a great description of how much What did unfold a few as your, in your childhood just manifested and even just the, it's either you repeat what you saw, and you had model to you or you make a conscious decision to go the opposite, which is not necessarily the best option, either.

That's right. And I did both.

I think we all do, I think we all do to a certain degree, it just depends on what the and what that what the upbringing was like, and, and I love what you described there about, like, helping you understand why people are the way they are, they are not so that you can give them a life pass for what they for their behavior, but instead, so you can have really clear values and boundaries so that people aren't trampling all over you like they they may have done previously. That's that's a great description Dixie. Yeah. Now I know, for anyone who's had to step into that role, from a young age, like you described with your mum from the age of like seven or eight, becomes a pattern of feeling responsible for other people. Does that still show up for you now that there are times where you get too drawn into what, how much you need to give to other people, when perhaps you should be giving to yourself because I know that's very much a thing that I can still grapple with at times having having taken on that sort of role myself of that responsibility for how people are feeling.

Speaker 2 53:52

Life is a constant vessel of trying to balance out my one of my own core values of being of helpfulness with that feeling, every now and then of needing to say, not my circus, not my monkeys walk away. So. So sometimes it's a constant battle, that the feeling of responsibility for other people, the older I get, the more unwilling and able to step aside from that responsibility, and focus on my own business and my own family and my own needs, and those that for what a better way to put it. Those who deserve my time and important value in their lives. And so it does get easier. But then there's also been an awful lot of therapy and self improvement, personal professional development goes into that as well. Because you can't actually please everybody, you can't save everybody. And so, reaching that point of realization that you are not there to actually Be responsible for everybody or for forever. It's quite liberating.

Yeah. Well said. When, when you were talking about the mystery illness and the suddenness, what showed up in my body was a reflection of some real frustration, maybe even anger, because of all that. Is that something that you have, like thought about whether like in the immediacy after that or since then about like, they, how can they not have known? Like, how can how can they decide to mystery like in everything that we know, how can that be the case?

Speaker 2 55:47

Well, I guess there's a two fold answer to that. One is that I believe that you can easily become quite cynical about the medical profession. And I did, and I'm still through what I experienced in few observations over the years since, and also the way they declined to really take responsibility for some of what happened in there. But I also think that he believed that this was his time. And I say that because we had this interesting thing. A few months before he passed away. Two things happened, which both seem maybe insignificant, but in hindsight, were quite significant to his own belief about what was going on at a subconscious level. One was that we had a chewy, which is a beautiful bird fly into the house, and in Mallory legions here in New Zealand. If a chewy flies into sorry, fantail fantail flies into the house, it's a sign of significant change. And often people think that it also means deaf. So he was home one day, and I was out and a female flew in the house. And he was really freaked out about it. Because I didn't even know about that legend at the time, but he was quite freaked out about it at the time. So we put that to rest, and that was fine. But that had happened only five months earlier. As it turned out. The other thing was was that we'd been sitting down watching a TV show where there was a scene where this old guy had to sit there as his wife passed away. And the episode. And I remember him looking at me and saying goodbye, go first. Because if I don't think will be the one left behind. And I remember we just sat and talked about it. And you know, we had a bit of a no, that's okay. It might have been around the same time that the fantail thing happened. But I remember that had happened a few months earlier as well. And so when he then got stuck with a, he, at some level, created that or manifested that, or remember that that was his time, I don't know. But I know that he impacted on a lot of people in a really positive way. And there was a lot of people changed things in their lives as a result of him going, you know, people got divorced or engaged. They had babies, they went through IVF. Again, they, they, you know, make changes, they retired earlier, they did all sorts of things. It was mine, who was young, fit and healthy, at the age of 40. So he had a lot of impact, not just on my own direct family. And the other part of it, where you talk about anger, I can remember at times, you know, wintry nights picking up the kids from you know, daycare and school and getting home and it's dark and it's cold, and the house needs to be defined needs to be looking the company needs to be chopped, and you put the baby inside me a totally older brother that look after him. When you go outside and you chop kindling, and you're literally swinging the axe and King, you bust and you're supposed to be Boston, how could you have done this, you know, on the x. So you have moments where you are very, you know, it's part of grieving, you get angry about well, this is not what I signed up for. This is not what I expected. I want my life back. And that's a really common part of grieving as well. And however that sort of unfolds, you have to honor that part. And they laugh about it.

Yeah, laugh about it. Great point. Dixie. A lot of the work you do is around helping people to share their story, particularly through the how that's going to help them with their business. What I'd love to hear from you, is you mentioned before I jotted down what some of you said you said finding out who you are and who You want to be? Who are you? Outside of the business? Uh, you have? And who do you want to be?

Speaker 2 1:00:08

Oh, that's such a big question. Who am I, I am a creative, special spiritual being who is here to help other people figure out what they need to figure out. And then how to make that important for others.

I love it. Right answer.

Speaker 2 1:00:33

And I'm guided constantly to do that and guided constantly. The people who turn up in my life are constantly part of that. So I trust in it now. And who do I want to be? I want to keep doing what I'm doing to help other people to figure out what they're doing and how they're going to make it matter to others. And I'm really good at it. And it's taken me a long time to be able to sit and say, You know what, I'm really good at it, because I love it. And because I get to work with the most amazing people in the world, who have got significant something going on, in all kinds of different ways. And so this is what I get to do every day.

So good. I wasn't sure whether you'd be able to answer that so succinctly. But that was brilliant. And to me, it's again, it's it's highlighting your body of work, not just around, knowing that you need to work on self first, but in your ability to articulate that for help other people articulate that. Because it's how you find your own story, right? Like, I've, I've, for the longest time grappled with how to tell my story, and what were the significant parts. But of course, as I've grappled with that for 10 years, you get really good at helping other people because you can identify the gaps, right?

Or you teach what you most need to learn.

100% I said to people all the time was like, like it. That's when impostor syndrome shows off for most people, right? Is they go? Are you better? Oh, my, it's like, no, no, that exactly who people want to learn from someone who? Yeah, you've linked it. Fantastic. All right. So Dixie, please do share with the listeners, what it is that you do in a bit more detail so that they know and where people can find you.

Speaker 2 1:02:33

Thank you. Well, what I do is what I'm what I'm special at, is helping people to unpack what their stories are, and make sense of it. So instead of just sitting down and writing the book, I help them to unravel all of the jumbled information in their heads, get it into a semblance of a strong plan, so that they can write that and share it across multiple stages. So whether that stage is, you know, speaking, or coaching, working with people one on one, how do they make that wisdom, that legacy of wisdom that they have matter? And how do they share it, so I help them to unravel it, and write great books, because everything comes back to starting with the book, because it's a great plan. And then I work with them to ensure that they go successfully from the pages to the stages, whatever those stages are, and market them and make them magnificent in their own industries or fields. Love it, and it's pages

and pages to the stages fantastic. Is there any other message you'd love to pass on to people before you go Dixie? Anyone else who's maybe battling with depression or grief or or anything,

Speaker 2 1:03:51

get help? Talk to someone who has walked in your shoes. And I, it took me a long time to find someone. I mean, I was I was 31 years of age 32, when younger son was born. I didn't know any other people who had gone through that journey, including that, you know, being pregnant until 18 years later. But I definitely so that was quite confronting at that time. But for a couple of years, I remember ringing my insurance broker about three years later and asking him whether I was covered for having a nervous breakdown. Because I wanted so desperately to have one. And I knew I needed to cover. And I know that sounds insane. But my brain at that time was thinking, I haven't been able to talk to anyone else who understands the first thing about what I'm doing. I just need to take a break and go and find someone. And so I finally found someone who was written up in the woman's weekly news magazine, who had also been widowed a few years earlier who was of the same age range and was apparent, and I literally tracked her down and and rang her on a Friday night. And I said, This is who I am, this is my situation, would you please just talk to me. And I'm emotional just thinking about actually strangely, but she bless her, and I can't remember who it was. Just talk to me for about 45 minutes. I'm here for you. So I have also tried to do that for as many people as I can over the years, because being a young widow, is a really, really strange place to be. And it's, it's different to losing a, you know, a child or, or sibling or best friend or whatever, or parent because that person is the person who's supposed to be helping you with that stuff. Yeah, and so, and you're still walking around with a wedding ring on your finger, and people assume that you're going to, you know, buy the, the whatever and take it home and your husband's going to help you put it together or whatever. So you have to keep walking in the strange space. But you have to be able to find someone who can relate to your journey. So if you're going through that, please find someone who will be a torch bearer and hand you the torch and then you can fall further forward. Because that's important. And I think that that's what we all need to do for each other has been the torchbearer.

Well, I love that. So good. Dixie, love this chat. definitely resonated with a lot of your story. Thank you so much for sharing. I really appreciate it. Appreciate you.

Speaker 2 1:06:24

Thank you so much. I thought about things I haven't thought about for years and the last hour and I really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you. Thank you so much. It's been

Dixie see. I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief. Let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform