From Doing To Being With Marina Triner | 010

I have Marina Triner joining us today. And I'm really excited for you to listen to this conversation. Because her and I share a lot about what we've experienced as we shift out of functional freeze. As we connect more with our bodies, as we shift out of these patterns that are rooted in that, go, go go doo doo doo energy that can often run generations deep. And we speak a lot to what happens as we're on this journey out of functional phrase and into really listening to our body. So hopefully, this conversation gives you lots of insight into your own experiences, and that you see yourself in what we're speaking to, so that you can also find your own understanding of what's happening for you. And hopefully, it also provides you with a few tips and ways that you can understand your experience and how to support yourself in shifting out of a lot of these patterns. And dive in, see where this conversation takes you. And feel free to reach out if you have any questions. So I'm really excited to have Marina Triner on this podcast mainly because Marina I've been watching you are getting to witness you on social media kind of evolve in both who you are and in your business. And it's been really inspiring. Just I remember, you know, when somatic and trauma and nervous system all became key words, and you were just starting to come into more people's awareness. And people were finding you, I remember just really witnessing you also finding yourself. And that's what I'm really so stoked. Why I'm so stoked to have you here is because there's this realness that you always show up in and this, this honesty and rawness and truth in your journey that I see as inspiring for me for others in their journey to really just become more aware of what it means to connect into the body and to be in the messiness and, and be in the untangling and be in the like who am I as I navigate all of this. So I'm really excited to have you here because I think you've been such a great role model for many in this journey into connecting into the body. So I'm excited for our conversation to go wherever it goes. Because, yeah, it's been fun witnessing You and that process.

Thank you so much. It's so funny that you say that because I feel like this year, I suddenly felt like, I'm not really on my purpose. Like, just something feels off. And I did a business group program. And I literally sent them your newsletter. I was like, here's an example of like, how you should talk because it was like, I feel like I'm talking to my friend or my neighbor. And she's just telling me about her day. And then she's telling me like I'm doing this program. And I'm like, This is how we should sound like this is yeah, this is the realness that I really appreciate. And yeah, so it's, it's so funny that you say that because I felt exactly the same about

you. That's fun. I love it. That's why I know, I knew we get along. There's something in that, like, with the work we're doing. Find how to be showing up in the authenticity in the vulnerability in the journey, while also being the expert. It's this like, Well, I'm not really the expert, because I'm on the journey as well. Right? And how to be real in it. And that not for me at least it's like how do I not treat this as this marketing game and really just treat this as this is who I am and this is what I have to offer and and if you resonate with that, then great, let's hang out let's connect let's learn from from each other because I'm always learning from my clients and courts, course participants as well. And I really see that in you as well. It's like how do we show up without running a business but run a business? You know,

God, it's so hard. I think that the biggest thing for me is the vulnerability which it was always easy for me to speak like to share everything like you know, not to like hold back or like, you know, not to seem perfect to be very honest. But emotional vulnerability, it was always really hard and I always felt like that is actually what I need to develop as a practitioner the most for my clients to just feel with them, not just sit here and be like, Oh, I'm so sorry, like that. But like Wow, I feel that sadness and happiness in my body right now when you're talking about it, and I'm feeling with you, because that's actually what they would need it from their parents, and then didn't get. And that's what I needed from my parents that I didn't get. And so, yeah, that that probably is the hardest thing. And when you're vulnerable, I feel like you can be the most real, even as a business owner, because you're just like, This is what I'm going through right now. You know, and this is who I am. And yeah, but there's definitely a temptation, I think, for business owners to seem like the experts, because we are supposed to sell stuff and like, tell people that we know what we're doing. Yeah, so there, it's very tricky.

It is it is it is for sure. And I love this piece that you're really working with around like, how can you be with your clients in a way where it's that relational, like, dynamic, like we're in the fields together, right? Like, I really see you and what stands out to me in that is like, that's what we're also learning to be for ourselves, that our clients are learning to be for themselves is, the words I use is like, How can I be the empathic witness for myself? How can I be the empathic witness for my clients? And that, to me, is the richness of the journeys like learning to be that for ourselves, and ideally, we're surrounding ourselves with people who also can provide that for us. And, but a lot of the time, that's not what we experienced growing up. It's not a familiar way of being in relationship, there's more of this shift of like, how do I have to be to be okay. And I think that's one of the big things that disconnects us from ourselves and disconnects us from our body is the shift we make out of having empathy for each other and being in connection. And instead, we shift into these patterns of like, how do I need to beach survive, and I I lose connection with myself and with my body. And I think that's why there's such a transition happening right now, where people are coming back into the body is because of this, like, wait. I'm so disconnected. And I'm not feeling connection with myself or with each other, with other people. And that's what I want to kind of invite you to speak to a little is that journey you made of like being more disconnected from yourself, not even really, maybe knowing you had much of a body and really living in this. These patterns are these ways that you learned how to survive family, dynamic culture, dynamic cultural dynamics, you know, the systems and many different ways. And what for you was the realization where it's like, oh, wait, there's a shift I'm making here out of having to be something into discovering who I am. That's a fully loaded question. But wherever.

I love the perfect one. When you were speaking, I also thought about isn't it crazy that people ask like, how are you and you're always like, good. You know, we all Oh, God. And it's like, sometimes I just want to be like, Ben. Yeah,

right. I know that question. lately. I've been answering it in this moment. I'm okay. In this moment. I'm many things that's an answer many times. That's often my answer right now. I'm many things right now.

A really good answer. Yeah. I also think about it's in this moment. I'm going through right now I'm going through quite a hard time. And so like when people ask me, I'm like right now I'm smiling. Two minutes later, I'm probably going to be crying. Exactly. Yeah. But yeah, well, I think maybe we can start with the cultural stuff because I was born in Ukraine. And Ukraine is like so stoic, stoic, and he said, stoic, stoic. So, so stoic, like, my parents told me that you couldn't even express happiness because happiness seemed like lunacy. Like, if somebody's like, really happy, they look like a lunatic. And I was like, Oh my God, that's so crazy. So no emotion just like fine. Everything was fine. And that's where how I was born. But I was always very sensitive. And so then when I was two, we moved to Israel. And it's like, extreme emotion. I would say, like, kids just let themselves kind of like lose it in the grocery store it my parents were like, horrified what's happening here. i But for me, it seemed way more normal and good to me to be like that, and so yeah, that was that contrast that I experienced, you know, those two different ways of being and then we moved to the US, which I think is, I guess, in the middle, I don't know, in California, it's like, it's fine. I mean, you can be happy, kind of, but it's just like, yeah, there's not much going on emotionally. And I did I started therapy when I was 18. But it wasn't so much exploring my emotions, I would say like my therapist actually was like, people sit here, and they cry over much worse, much, you know, less worse things and you're sharing, and you're just like, fine. And can you cry?

I was like, no,

no, I can't. Yeah, so I didn't. And yeah, maybe we can invite people to check in and just see if I think everyone has that one emotion or maybe many, but the several emotions, that growing up, you kind of had no one to go to around that emotion. Like, for me, it was definitely sadness, and disappointment. Disappointment. I don't even remember having that. It's like, that didn't exist. So now I realized, well, it's because there was no room for it to exist. It's not because I didn't feel it. And so and sadness, it's just, I was like, I had to be with it alone. So yeah, that's one of the most I think, challenging questions and painful questions to ask yourself. Who did you go to when you were sad? What did you go to when you were scared? Or angry? So yeah, that's, I'm inviting everybody to check in with that. But I like

that. I like that invitation. Because it's, there's a few invitations in it really, right. There's the invitation of like, who did you go to when you experienced these different emotions? And, and also, what I hear in that is like, well, what, what was around and what was available, or what was modeled in the household as well, right. To? I know, for me, everything was fine. There was very little conflict. I remember getting in a fistfight twice with my brother. That's it, you know, and, and yelling didn't happen. I don't remember much crying habit. And you know, like, emotions were just pretty flatline. From what I remember, at least I know, it might be different memories for my parents and my sister, my brother, but looking back on that is like, Okay, what was modeled? And who could I go to? Could I even feel it. And then looking back also at the cultural influence of that, right? Like, I come from a very German background where similar to Ukraine, but different also where it's more like, at least my experience of my German lineage is like, let me show you, I have purpose, and then I belong, and I'm okay. Right. So if I have the strength that I can provide, then I'm not going to be killed. So I'm good. I've got some purpose to contribute, and, and everything's fine. And we can just carry on and do what we need to do. So another invitation here for people is like, look at the emotional landscape of your home, or the environment you grew up in. And also look back at the cultural and the ancestral history that might be involved in that, too. I think that's such a rich thing to reflect on. It's something I actually weave into all my programs now is like, let's look back and to know, the landscape of our history, because there's so much that can be shared through even being open to receiving information through that, that gives further insight into why I am the way I am or why I navigate world, the world the way I do.

Yeah, absolutely. And there's also a lot of resources, I think, you know, the ways that our ancestors survived and what they did to do that, and what we inherited in terms of those resources. Yeah, but there's some funds, fine, you know, I have like the Holocaust and my heritage and moving, and communism, and just all this stuff that I continue to unpack. And I think also the financial structures are also very interesting. Because communism and capitalism, they both say, You are worthy, as long as you produce. Yes, that's like a very strong message that I grew up with, because my family was like, we eat communism. It's horrible. It's the devil, we're going to move to capitals, America, and it's going to be great. And they're still like very much in that mindset. And it's, I feel like it's the same. It's like, you're only worthy, if you're productive. Yeah, that's a very strong and when you're productive, it's kind of a numbing thing. Like you're actually not connected to yourself very much. You're just a lot of not always, of course, but you're just in that doing and I think that's how they survived in the doing like, especially my grandma was born in a labor camp. She was really in the doing her whole life was in the doing, and that's why that's like one of the reasons that she is maybe at her health level, despite all the Like factors is like being active moving, doing, you know, having a lot of kind of purpose in the doing. So it's the dark and the light side of it there totally.

And that makes me think of, you know, our generation and that quality of doing that's very much still part of the way we function in the world. And what I'm noticing, and you and I talked about it, before we dipped into this podcast, is, you know, that doing mentality is a way of surviving. And I like to look at things as spectrums. And one side of the spectrum is like, yeah, those that do the functional freezers that can just go Go, go, go go. The other end of the spectrum is, you know, those that really struggle to do because they feel so much that it's hard. When you're in functional freeze, it's easy, because it's like, oh, I can just override everything and get things done and, you know, be successful. Whereas the other end of the spectrum, if you don't have that functional freeze online as much, because I think there's always some level of freeze online, you're really having to navigate all the chaos that's happening inside of you, and the over experience of emotions and activations and sensitivities. And something that I have found in being a doer, and being in the more functional phrase everything's fine, is, the more we inquire into our experience for our body. And the more we're aware of when we're overriding and pushing through, the more we become more regulated, the less we're actually able to push through, the less we're able to be in that go, go go doo doo doo energy. And I feel like we're in this transitional state right now. We're, we're shifting out of that, go, go go that our history is so familiar with, and there's a lot of burnout. And there's a lot of, you know, people really struggling with that way of being in the world, because it's not a way to be in the world. And you and I briefly spoke to that beforehand, but anything you want to share around your shift, like, yeah, you're becoming more aware of your patterns, the ways you're living in life, but also as you heal, there's less ability to be in these patterns. So yeah, what's your experience been around that shift? Seeing it in your grandma, you know, and having that cultural influences Go, go? Go? What's been your journey with that? Anything you want? So much.

So I had my first business was in nutrition, and it felt quite stuck. And I was in my head, like, I was just rolling around, and okay, marketing techniques, this, this and that I was learning and learning just in my head in my head in my head. And that's actually how I found somatics. Because I was in this mastermind program, and the coach was like, have you tried to just sit with your body? And I was like, What are you talking about? who, where, where? And it was like, so fascinating, starting to just notice my body without an agenda. And I started doing it. It's like a totally just free exploration, because I'm a very good student. So when I'm told to do something, I'm going to do it the pattern. Yeah, it's totally a pattern, but sometimes very helpful, you know, so many hours a day, sometimes I would just sit and like, notice, my body is so interesting. And then another coach told me that my business was a trauma response.

Mm hmm. Like, yeah, yeah,

it was like, I don't know what you're talking about, but also shit, like, at the same time, like, I was like, this makes sense. So much like I feel this, but the I also have no idea we're talking about because to me, I kind of had my trauma I like very clearly in like boxes. That sexual abuse, this bad relationship, moving immigration, refugees, okay. Oh, yeah. What does that have to do with business? Like, it's just, you know, if I have to move, then because I moved, it will come up. So not realizing that it just penetrates every area of my life. And tonight,

can I get you to describe the experience of, you know, like, Okay, your business was a trauma response. What did that look like? How, how did you see? Looking back now, how do you see that that was true? What did it look like? What did it feel like? What was happening? What was your experience in that felt like? A

constant like activation and then crash activation crash and the triggers Just put me in bed for days. Like if somebody rejected me on a call with a potential client in bed for days, and couldn't function and then okay again, okay, I'm gonna do everything I possibly can. I'm so motivated. I'm listening to these, like motivational business owners on YouTube every morning, you know, like all this stuff very heavy and learning, like, can I learn more and more and more and more until I was finally told, like, do you see that this learning is not actually translating and nothing is actually shifting. And I had once like 40 calls with potential clients and one of them said, Yes, within a few months, it was so traumatic. And every time that happened again, I would crash but then come out of it like really activate it was it was a nightmare. It truly all dysregulation Yes, go on. And so that really encouraged me to do something about it. And okay, this, this body thing makes sense, because I've tried all the other things, and I've never tried this body thing. And apparently, I have a body because also, I only felt my neck up. Like I literally didn't feel anything. I was dissociated most of the time.

Yeah. It's pretty cool. When I work with people that live in their, in their heads, I find it so cool, because that's legit. How it feels, to me, it's like, wow, it's like this line, this clear line. And it's like, I know, I have a head and I can be really successful. And I can go and I can do. And then everything above that. It says if it's not a part of like, it's such a cool thing for me to feel in people. Because I'm I am. So in my body. Like it's harder for me to be in my head. So to feel that contrast to me, I'm always like, Oh, I love working with this. Because it's so Yeah, and like, Oh, watch out, you have no idea what else is happening? And yeah, as you dip in awareness is annoying. Watch out.

Yeah, and it's really fascinating, but also scary. I mean, the S thing we have to do very, very slowly. And that's why I feel so comfortable now working with people in that state, because I remember it like very much. But then I just started looking for I was like, Is there such a thing as a therapist who works with the body? Like I had no idea, right? Yeah, it does that exists. And so I would go, I would ask therapists and they refer me to another another another and then I ended up in somatic experiencing. So that's that just that was, you know, referrals. And I had no I thought I made it up. Like I thought it was like a made up field that I made up. But apparently it was a thing. Oh, I worked with that therapist. For three years, it was really challenging. really challenging the most challenging work I think I've ever done. Just uncovered, like just, you know, the experience of like, oh my God, there's so much in my body. It's so hard and exhausting. And

I think that's important for people to recognize if they can relate to this experience of being disconnected from their body and being in that go, go go energy, whether it's, you know, successful with business or just successful, successful in air quotes with life. It's like, recognize, this isn't just a quick fix. This isn't just a like, oh, I have a body and let me you know, do these somatic practices because I have so many people are using the word somatic now where it's like, oh, somatic, I need I need that I need to get in my body. And it's like, well, it's a long journey. To me, it's a lifelong journey if you ask me. And that it's not easy, because we're so used to what's familiar, and we know how to function in the world with what's familiar, but it's, it's not working anymore, or, you know, there's this recognition, like I want things to be different. But to really be aware, like this takes time and finding the right practitioner, the right modality that works for you, because there's lots of incredible modalities out there to find that modality that allows you to dip into the experiences without you know, exploding into what's underlying the functional freeze what's underlying your disconnect from your body, it's like take your time to dip into the layers that lie underneath. And that's why I love somatic experiencing so much because we can really notice the nuances and the subtle experiences where we're feeling and get get more connected with ourselves that way without having to dive deep into what happened to us and into the stories of it all and unpack it all. It's like how do we just slowly start to feel a little bit at a time. And where does that take us? And

yeah, it was incredibly life changing and yeah, helpful. I guess I love SAE and I also have some credit systems of SE, I got it. In terms of, and I'm sure it's not every therapist, but my therapist was fairy kind of blank screen, like didn't share anything about herself. And that was great, I think for me for that time, because I really needed to get some kind of baseline of my nervous system and something, you know, but the relational healing piece was really missing for me. And also emotionally, it was really about just regulating like feeling safe, it was really like an experience of like, okay, I'm gonna feel safe. And after that, I left San Diego, so I couldn't work with that therapist anymore, which is also like, so crazy, because it was very upsetting to me, like, I wanted to keep working with her. But because of the laws in California, I had to stop. So that was really hard. And during that time is when sort of things took off for my work. Because I was so excited about like, I was so passionate about I was so excited. And I started taking courses and it's kind of I feel like I had a natural feeling of it, like what is trauma, and I was always so fascinated by trauma and, and always so attracted to it. And I also worked for 10 years with Israeli and Palestinian teenagers in in circles. So that was kind of a shitshow we were not trauma informed at all, it was like, just, every day retraumatization you know, it was really very intense, there was no understanding of the nervous system. But it was also really beautiful to create this space where they can share and they can be heard and they can hear each other. So I was just around that for 10 years, like hearing stories of very intense trauma. So that exposure, like at first I remember, I couldn't sleep during that time, I couldn't function. But over time, I kind of learn to be with it somehow. You know, and so yeah, I feel quite comfortable with trauma, in some ways, like, you know, I just feel comfortable being around it. And it all just started making so much sense. And then I moved to Costa Rica, and I became the primary provider in my house financially. And that's put me in a massive trauma response, like money is a big, big trauma in my in my lineage like my grandma, my mom, and I am sure it goes back to. And so it was very, that's where I feel like I sort of lost my purpose because I was so driven by like, how do I make this money, I need to make this money I need to do. And I lost like some of my passion, not that I don't didn't love what I was doing. But I was so in that like cycle of doing, you know, and kind of chasing the safety, because I just couldn't feel safe returning country and a new language and new everything. So that's where I really met with burnout like time. So

it's kind of like at the beginning, you were in that go go go energy, and it was a disconnect from your body. And then as you came to recognize you had a body and learned more from a somatic approach and also recognizing the importance of wanting more relational and, and emotional aspects into the way you explored your own experiences and supported other people and experiences. There was still that underlying Go Go Go energy, that I mean, I can relate as well. Or it's just like, there's still that the patterns that lie deep within us lie deep within us. And that, to me is like the ongoing practices, the awareness we have of these patterns we find ourselves in. And it doesn't mean that we don't hit burnout or it doesn't mean that we don't override still. Right? It's like, yeah, like it's an ongoing practice of learning ourselves, learning about ourselves, learning our edges, and learning from the ongoing chaos that then supports us into moving towards mastery of something right to me it's an ongoing cycle of like, opening the door to more awareness around something and then diving into the chaos that happens when we become aware of the deeper layers of what what it is we're doing or how it is We're surviving or who it is. We really are. I don't even know what that means, you know, and then wait, okay, as I navigate and ride the waves through this, I then find mastery in that but then there's the next layer room.

I think this is so important because so Many people and myself included, I used to think, Okay, I found this thing, and it's gonna fix me now and it's gonna be fine. And I think that's the only thing that has really profoundly changed. The only thing because like you're saying it's layers is just like feeling okay with a process or a lifetime. Yes, and really not looking for someone to rescue me, but more like, Okay, this field of my life is currently off. So I need support there. Now, what's next, you know, and then now this fields feels a bit off, and I need more support there. And that's just, you know, that's the switch. And these people are not going to fix me and this modality is not going to fix me, it's just an ongoing, and ongoing thing. But it feels less threatening when you're okay with that. Exactly.

There's more, though, when I speak to you in that it's like, there's more grace for being human. And the more we can have grace for being human, the more we can also create space for these patterns we find ourselves in, the more we also then find support and recognize we're not alone. How do we find the right resources and the right support system to to really guide us in the process back to ourselves, so we can be our own guide, right? Like that is an ongoing process. It's yeah. And I always say like, it doesn't become easier, but we can do it with more ease. Like that, to me is like that is like the, at least that's been my journey is like, I have more ease in the messiness, like it's still raw and vulnerable. And if anything gets harder, because the more we come out of that functional freeze, and the more we're really experiencing ourselves in the experiences, whether it's emotional, or somatic or energetic, and there's so much going on in the human experience. It's, it's like, Ha, the more I come out of freeze, the more I have to feel and becomes child more challenging, but there's more ease in the challenge.

That's very true. That's very true. Yeah, I, you know, I used to say, I had friends who were kind of teaching about being a highly sensitive person, and I was like, That's me. I'm an empath, but I'm not a highly I mean, I don't have any of the stuff. And then they were like, how do you how's your sleep? And I'm like, okay, and how do you feel about sounds? I'm like, Well, I can tune them out. And then I moved to Costa Rica, and I swear, like, I don't know, there's something about this place, that just doesn't let you run away. Like it's because everything is so you know, you're in nature. And there's so much peace, people that a lot of people that live here that are from here, have a different, I don't know kind of vibration of their nervous system, it's completely different. And that's why I specifically didn't want to live around other people from the US like I wanted to experience like a different culture a different way of being because I was so indoctrinated, that the US is like the best thing. I shouldn't be so grateful. It's the only place to live and all this kind of stuff. And, yeah, it's been impossible to hide from my sensitivities, like sounds and smells, and exactly what you're saying, just, I realized, like, I don't want to work more than like, four hours a day, then who work for me. This kind of work like holding people in their most painful states, like just being there with them in their most deepest pain. I can't do that for more than like, four hours. So yeah, that has changed. And at first I actually like there was a period of almost morning like, oh my god, I used to be a machine like my friends used to call me in machine than the marine as a machine. She can keep going all day long. All that however long it takes she's gonna keep going. And I used to love that about myself, you know, like my ability to push through anything and override anything. So after the morning, I was like, Oh, this is

actually quite nice. Like,

like, I need I enjoy the space. I can hear the sounds I can see the colors I can be in the smells like Can ya be present? Yeah,

yeah. Yeah. And I think that most humans learn through some kind of crash. And so or, you know, rock bottom, and it's not just once it's many, many times, of course, I hit that rock bottom with work where I just had to take naps before and after every client that's Here's where I got to, in order to even be able to be present. And I realized, you know, my system was in survival mode. And I was even filling my time with work. Like, I thought it was a badge of honor to do more work and more work. So I made it my goal, to for that time, it was working like two hours, two hours a day, because that's really like all I could. And I made it my goal to give everything to my assistant, like, every possible thing that I don't need to do, or that I don't like to do, more importantly, I give to her. And it was very scary. And now I teach people this and I understand how scary it is, because it's like, and maybe part of it is the control. But I think more is the sense of your self esteem and your self worth is like eroding. Like, who am I, I'm losing myself. I'm completely lost right now. And, and so it has to be very gradual. I feel like it can just be like, Okay, I'm gonna work two hours a day, I didn't even know what to do as like, what am I? What am I going to do with my day? Like, I don't know what else to do. And I would literally like Google, like what to do?

Amazing. I'm sure you're not alone. And that I find that it's very common for the high functioning people. Right. It's like, I know how to feel alive when I'm doing things. I feel, yeah, if I'm not doing something, I might have to feel something. And that's really uncomfortable. And I don't know how to sit still. So I want to invite people that are resonating with this talk and resonating with this idea of like that go go go energy. If you were to go go go a little bit less what shows up for you. Because that to me, especially if you listen to your physiologies response to the idea of doing less, it's like, oh, all of a sudden my heart rate increases. And my eyes dart around a little bit more. And there's this uncomfortableness and I'm clenching my jaw. And there's this like urgency to go and do things again, right? That that transition into doing less is a process and to just like ag cut down to two hours a day. I think a lot of people would struggle with like, What do you mean, how do I do not not that you're not doing? You're doing nothing? But how do I not stay busy? That's so unfamiliar. Yeah,

yeah. And even with exercise, I had a pretty intense addiction to exercise. And right before moving to Costa Rica, I hurt myself so badly my lower back, which is very interesting, because it's the so as as the fight or flight muscle, right, exactly. Yeah, I've made so much sense. And so I couldn't walk, like I couldn't move at all for two weeks. And I'm like having to pack my house. It was rush yet. And then when I was finally able to I literally could walk at like a sale for like five minutes. And then I had to sit down, like that's where my body was at. And so after a while, when I was more able to move, I actually hired a trauma informed personal trainer. And one of the things she told me, which was really cool. I told her, I'm trying to go for a walk in the morning, and go really slow. And I literally feel like I'm gonna die. Like I can't handle it, my nervous system cannot handle it. And she said, Don't go too slow. Just find a medium pace of walking, where you're like slowing down a tiny amount. But you're not. And it was so brilliant. Because you know, that's how our nervous system works. Of course, you know, that, that we, if we go if we sort of challenge it too much, even in going slower, that is a challenge. And people don't realize that we would crash and that's how I felt. I remember literally feeling like this wasn't that long ago, and it's still something I'm working on. Like I still, I definitely lean into exercise for regulation, which I don't think is necessarily bad, but I noticed when I'm doing it too much, you know, to kind of cope and erase my emotions or ignore the activation that I still have in my body and I think I still have a lot of activation in my body from like the early childhood stuff like moving when I was two and being in complete tear, complete tear. I was on the airplane yelling Devil's at everyone just Oh, yeah. before. Yeah. And I was yelling, I want to go home. I want to go home. I want to go home. And also my parents left twice when I was a baby. Their exams so very like early stuff like that. I think there's so much terror still in my body that I need to work through. Yeah, yeah. So don't slow down, too. Do much is exactly that. And that's

where like I find it so beneficial just well first off to recognize more of our human experience that we're not just our thoughts and we have a body and then starting to uncover like, what are the patterns we find ourselves in. And the more we can pause and notice where in these patterns, there's more opportunity to deepen our awareness around what's happening and to have curiosity in both into what's happening and into what else is possible. But one thing I love to play with, the more we become more familiar with our patterns is like, just the idea of what happens if I lay with the idea of doing this, this a little bit less. So if I'm in this Go, go go a little less, what shows up for me, right? Or, okay, I have the impulse to go to exercise and I feel the like ramping up and I want to go, Okay, what happens if I go a little tiny bit less, are when I'm pushing, and I'm walking really fast. And I forgot I had a body because I'm walking so fast, and I'm just pushing and, you know, are working out and it's like a weight. Okay, what happens if I just pause for a moment and recognizing I'm doing that I'm disconnected from my body. And I'm caught in this like, push, push or walk faster? Do whatever we're talking physical exercise here. But if I were to just pause, I'm already doing it less, right? And what am I noticing in the little less, oh, there's a lot of vibration happening. And there's this, this want to push through again. And chances are that these patterns that we find ourselves in are there for a reason, often, for example, to protect me from feeling the depth of that terror, from the depth of the abandonment and the fear and the confusion of all of that, right. And the more we're able to see the layers of it as like, oh, at the core is the trauma of being left in the terror or the confusion and the fear that was there. But to not feel that I'm keeping myself busy. And I'm keeping myself going. And we're using this as an example today, in our in our conversation, there are many other survival patterns that we may find ourselves in. To me, the more we can pause and see the layers that are at play, and then also the history, right, it's like, oh, but as you shared, it's like, there's so much history that's involved in in these patterns as well, to me that allows that grace to come in, like, oh, I can pause, I can pan out, I can see the many layers at play. And that just allows more space to then come into it with some curiosity, and not having to fix ourselves, right not having to get caught up in this loop of always seeking the answers and instead coming to ourselves for the insights.

Yeah, and I also think, you know, what does make it easier is that you go through this process of noticing something, and maybe the first time you notice something, you're really pushing to fix it, like, Oh, my God, I mean, that's how I was at the bow, I see this thing that I do, and I hate it. It's so embarrassing, or whatever, and I have to change it, I have to fix it. And then in the learning is like, Oh, well actually, when I embrace it, it just changes on its own. I don't have to do that much. Yeah. And that's what's so cool. And so I think that sets kind of a model that next time I do that I actually don't I actually trust also, I think the trust is so big that okay, I know how this works. I'm noticing this thing this time, I'm not going to push I'm just going to trust that is going to unfold and, and shift and one of the cool things that I feel that changed for me in working less is all the magical things that happened. Like even you messaging me, you know, I didn't have to do anything. You messaged me. I was like, oh my god, I love her so much. I'm so excited. So those things start to happen. And my current therapist told me one time when I was like talking to her about the money stuff she'd like, I really feel like you have some, some blocks in your chest that's literally like don't come in Money cannot come in. And because I'm doing so much and I'm actually blocking things from flowing and coming in. And so that's the cool part is it kind of involved a bit of trust for sure to say I can slow down it's going to be okay. And I did it gradually. But now I really trust that actually, the more I slow down the more things just like work for me. I don't have to just be you know, oh, I need Nicole to like message me. How do I make this happen? Okay, let's write a strategy and five bullet points I wrote it just kind of happens. Like I'm just being and I'm showing up and talking on Instagram. I'm just like, Hello World. This is who I am, you know, and just things start to unfold. So it's really, really cool.

What stands out to me and what you're sharing in that, and I've heard you speak to this before, as well as like, you're just with what is in this moment, I'm this, right? So there's this bigger picture of trusting. And I want to also name for some people that it's like, oh, you might trust, but then also have another part that doesn't trust, and then there's conflict, and then it doesn't flow as well. And that's, that's where it's kind of becomes laughable. Because it's like, we can be in the bypassing, oh, I just trust it all, it'll all come to me. And then it still doesn't, because another part doesn't actually trust. And there's conflict in amongst her own experiences, but what I'm really hearing in you is like, there's a softening towards the surrendering of the trust, and then evidence of how it just unfolds, which allows trust to continue to happen even more. Right. So the reason why I wanted to name that is if someone struggles with trusting is like, well, just notice what is I have a part of me that struggles and actually trusting? Oh, interesting, as I noticed that there's a sense of like, yeah, I don't deserve I feel myself get small. I push everyone away. It's like, No, I don't, I don't know, wait, that there's this part here. And that's just what my experience is in this moment. And I can learn something from that about myself. And the more we do that, the more we trust, you know, it's it's like really holding space for all the experiences to exist, to then soften into the trusting more and more and more.

Yeah, I think this is such an important point that people might hear this and say, Oh, well, yeah, I should just trust the universe, you know? And I couldn't at all, like, yeah, he told me that they would tell me, Well, just, you know, it's kind of workflow just I'm like, how I have no evidence in my life, that I should trust anything or anybody. And so what helped, is, just like you said, allowing the non trusting part and actually like hearing it, and not pushing it away, and supporting it for a very long time. And just being like, we don't have to trust it's okay, we're not there. That's okay. Like, my head was like, this makes sense to me. According to the laws of the universe, everything works out whatever I want shall happen. But my body was like, hell no. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So just like letting that be there. And actually talking to the part of you that is not trusting and letting it express itself and letting it know, like, you can take your time and okay, and maybe we'll get there, maybe not. It's all good. And then that part kind of starts to soften over time.

Yeah. And that's where I love thinking of us as energy and thinking of us, you know, this is a little more quantum, but also, like, just thinking coherence, right? So the mind knows, like, I can trust but something in the physiology is like, No, we're stuck in the threat response cycle, thank you very much. We are just trying to survive here. We can't trust everything is dangerous. But the more we hold this awareness of what can what the experience of trust can be, or is, the more we're tuning into that frequency, the more of the parts that are not aligned to that start to shift and transform, right. And that's, again, this shift that we can make towards this work being easier, even though it's not easy, is like, the more we recognize both that which is coherent, and which is aligned in which is, you know, in this example, this, this resonance of trust, it allows us to hold that while also holding the pieces that aren't yet at that experience. I think the bypassing side of it is I just hold the trust and you know, I don't connect with the parts of me that don't trust whereas, to me, what's most important is like, how do we find that which is already hole, which is already at a very different frequency to support that which is disorganized, right? The power of coherence is that we do, our system wants to be coherent. So when we connect into these experiences, while also having a space for these other experiences, that's when the real magic happens. And things start to shift with way more ease, like, oh, right, we can be this and we can be okay. We don't have to be in that state of survival. I'm saying it like it's easy. It's not we're still having to move through. You know, the pain and the suffering and the terror like you mentioned, right, the underlying layers and lifetimes and inner generational layers of aspects that are stuck, not within those higher frequencies. And yeah, that to me is why tuning into the All human experience and tuning into the many layers at play is so important.

Yeah, you explain that. And I have a practice that I learned that I really like, around parts work where you actually have those parts talk to each other, that are the trust and the part that doesn't trust and they have a dialogue and you actually like, move chairs, like you're embodying that part. And it's talking. And so I feel and they, they talk to each other. So they request things from each other. And that's where the coherence happens in like, well, this part that trusts thinks I'm crazy and doesn't listen to me, and it's not nice to me, and I just want you to hear me like this is how I'm feeling you know. So then the parts kind of come into that coherence.

Beautiful. They get to have this conversation, and both get to be seen and heard and their experience, which is so important, while also recognizing something else as possible. doesn't just have to be conflict all the time. Yeah. Oh, that's so beautiful. Can people download that process? Or is that something that's in your program, there's just something that

I do teach it in my programs, but I will give credit because I learned it from my coach of mine, Natalie Kennedy, who I learned from her. Her a spiritual teacher from Austria Steffi price. So I went to her house and her retreat in Austria, and we did a lot of that. But yes, I do teach it in my programs, a lot of fun. Yeah, amazing.

Anything else you want to speak to around? Yeah, some of your processes, your practices, any other invitations, you want to invite people into in this moment, night practices,

I would say it's really about noticing, noticing the body and in the moment. And like you said, just like pausing and noticing what's there. And I love all the regulation tools, the movement, salmon breath, all the regulation tools to allow me to go into the emotion. So I really like to talk about that. Because I think a lot of people think regulation is becoming calm. And I used to think that too, I just want to be calm. And when we're talking about being regulated, it's maybe like losing your shit, like crying your eyes out, that is regulating. And so all those practices, I use them to go into the emotion more like feel more safe in my body, so I can actually feel the emotion more. And it's just pretty lovely to notice that all of our experiences, even the really hard ones that I'm going through one right now. They're really meant to help us work on something that we really want to work on. So for me, we started with the vulnerability stuff. being sad, specially in front of people was terrifying. And it took me a really long time with my own therapist actually had COVID That's when I lost my sheet. COVID and I was like, Listen, I don't have any protectors in place. So I'm going to fall apart now. And she's like, Well, okay, like, maybe we should take it slow. So you don't have a hangover tomorrow about this. I'm like, no, no, this is a perfect opportunity. I'm gonna cry my eyes out and you're just gonna sit there. Okay, ready. And it worked. It actually worked. And but with her, it's really cool, because she's very attachment versed. And so when we started, she would actually not face the camera for like many sessions, I would be talking but she wasn't looking at me. And that really helped me a lot to create that trust and safety. And with her like, over time, I've been able to cry a lot. And now that this really hard thing is happening in my life. It's like, it's so crazy, because I almost thought it was gonna happen to force me to cry in front of everyone. Like I cried in a branding session. I just like I cry now. Okay, like there's this is happening. Yes. And it was literally my biggest fear. Especially like how are people going to respond and there was so much guilt around it and shame and things that logically I understand are not real. Like my friends are happy to be there when I'm crying. But it doesn't matter. Like though of course we know that doesn't matter. But when you get into sort of a really hard crisis in your life, you can't control it anymore. You just You just need that support you you just you know just show up as you are. So that always teaches me that even like fairy hard experiences in our life are meant to kind of help us because this is huge for me like you having this ability to cry in front of people and receive their If support is hugely regulating, like, I can cry all I want by myself, it's great, it's great. I'm not saying we shouldn't. But if I can also, you know, be seen for like my real emotion, there's going to be some blocks around it, there's going to be a lot of dysregulation around it. So I'm very grateful for that. Yeah.

Well, I want to say that that also probably is a result of the work you had done to build your capacity. Right. And that's one thing I have found is as the more work, the more I explore, the more I'm able to be in the world with more depth or with more access to these emotions that may be challenging. And it's, it's not just a switch, it's this building of capacity that you've done, that allows your system to feel safe enough to play with the next edge of feeling these emotions in these vulnerable places that that edge of vulnerability continues to evolve. And I love that you're sharing this because to me, it's when that happens. It's like almost a surprise to us, right? It's like, oh, shit, I'm crying in front of people what? This never used to happen, right? And it's not like, Okay, today, I'm gonna cry in front of people or like, right, it's like this natural unfolding that happens in the way we get to show up in the world. Because the foundation has strengthened the the sense of safety has evolved, and access to these things that probably for generations haven't been available, start to become available. And this to me is the rewriting of the cellular story, right is this, this, this relationship that with how we can be in the world starts to really change through time. And it's a such a beautiful process. And then to be in relation, then allows others to also see what's possible and to be in the connection and to be in the vulnerability together. To me, that's such a powerful, experienced, be witnessing and to be part of that field together just allows us all to benefit in some way through that. So I'm so grateful for the work you do to support people in that and also for you to be in communities where you get to be doing that. Thank you. Yeah, very much. Yeah. Yeah. I could ask you so many more questions. I do have actually, one more, this might take us on a little bit of a, do you have you okay, to dip into one more little piece here. Okay. So, relate of somatic tools you spoke to right, and using somatic tools to access emotion or to access experiences, right? Because nothing's just emotion, there's so much more involved. I want to just speak to that briefly. So that people can understand, like, what is a somatic practice. And the reason why I want to name it is because I think it's important for people to also recognize when we're coming more top down versus bottom up. And that often it's a dance in between the two, it's not just one or the other. So somatic practice, for example, could be me, top down, guiding myself into something, but then bottom up, something starts to piece together or untangle. And I give myself the space to be in my experience to see what evolves from a bottom up experience. And so I just would love you to give an example for us of like, what is a somatic practice? And, yeah, I might pipe into just like that difference, right of like, top down, bottom up. And this dance, we're constantly doing of directing ourselves into something, while also pausing and noticing and giving ourselves the space to be in what we're experiencing. And to me being able to differentiate those two and, and be able to recognize when one is more important than the other and how that it's this constant dance. To me, that's really important. So

yeah, I really love how you explained it. And I remember for instance, learning Pendulo, Asian, I mean, doing penggilingan With my Somatic Experiencing therapist, and I was like, There's no way I can guide this because it's new, and I don't even understand what's happening. But I had it in my awareness that one day I could. So that's really cool, because it's like, oh, I'm going to engage with this tool right now. And it's going to really help me with this thing. And you start to kind of learn which tools help you in what situation but more I really like working with triggers. That's really like my favorite topic. I have a whole course on it. And when I have a trigger, and I feel like I check in with my capacity I need to deal in that moment. If I don't have capacity, I don't deal with it, and I deal with it later. And then when I am ready, I again check in, like from one to 10, how much capacity do I have to deal with this could be like a two or three, let's say, and so the somatic practices are helping me get that fire, go go higher with my capacity. So it might be like the rule, like making the vowel sound, or it could be different breathing techniques that when you're doing them, you're actually doing it quite slowly so that you're noticing your sensations. And you notice how you start to feel more and more safe. And it's there, there's no like dialogue in my head, I just kind of like, do, for example, physiological size. So I do that, and people can look that up. And I do that. And then I asked myself, Okay, now that I've done this breath, where is my capacity? In other words, like, how safe Am I feeling now. So I kind of want to go to like seven or eight, before I deal with a big trigger. And then I sit with the sensation of the trigger. And I noticed what it's reminding me of, like through this sensation, what is the experience, my earliest memory, my earliest experience that is being that is happening for me. And through that process, I really allow the emotions to flow. And I really connect to that early time, from my adult self. So not from like, a helpless space, but more like being there for that child listening, hearing what she needed that she didn't get, or she got too much of, and just kind of like supporting her. And sometimes, you know, even bringing her to the present, and like showing her look, this is life. Now, it looks very different. This is what it looks like, it's really, really great, you know, this showing her those things are like whatever supportive thing I can give to her. And in that I think there's a combination of bottom up and top down because I said through this sensation, but I I do like to have I know, some people cannot access concrete memories, and sometimes I can't. But when I can, it's really helpful. And I just see that memory or that dynamic, it doesn't have to be one memory, it could be like, This is how I always was with my mom, like, that's how I felt every single day with my mom. And that's actually not a good feeling. So I want to, you know, look into that. So that's kind of the process. And by the end, I want to make sure that I'm grounded again, and I might do another grounding or somatic practice at the end. Right?

Awesome, thank you. I'm gonna spin it and put my words to it just as another perspective, because to me, my intention with this podcast, and the way I work always is like, How can I support people in deepening their understanding of their own perspectives and find their own understanding of how they're noticing their own experiences and what it is they are doing. So for me, when I think of these somatic practices you speak to, it's like, okay, I'm noticing the level of activation I'm having, and I'm doing something to settle myself back down. So to me, like resources can be really helpful as a way to, okay, I'm feeling really activated, and I'm gonna do something to settle my experience. And, versus I'm, I'm then more settled, and I can reflect on a trigger or reflect on something I recently experienced. And because our brain doesn't have that much of a sense of time, other than a small portion of it, just by reflecting on our trigger, or reflecting on something that happened, we then have an experience again, and because we've done these resources that this is what you're speaking to is like, it allows me to come into a more subtle place to have more capacity to be in the witness of what I'm experiencing. And then to be with whatever arises that then that's one of the top of bottom up right on top down is like I'm choosing to settle my system. And now I'm in a space where I can hold space for whatever is showing up. And it's through those insights that you might get images, or you might have just a somatic experience and have more awareness of the threat response cycle and where you might be stuck in that or you might have yet a part that shows up and a conversate opportunity to have a conversation with the part. So it's like, it's in those places where we get to create the change. The somatic tools support us to settle so we can be in a place where we can be in that opportunity where change can happen. So I wanted to just spin my words into it for those that have listened to the way I speak so that there can be that recognition also in like oh Okay, yeah, there's these different ways to speak to it. And what we're doing here is much of the same and, and I'm sure you and I use similar techniques and different techniques. And that's my hope is for people to find what works for them in how they experience themselves and how they bring curiosity to what they're experiencing. And so, yeah, I

find I really like that. That's really cool, because it makes me think of like, the self energy and ifs, like just being in that energy versus like, I guess you could say victim or, like helpless, just feeling helpless. And because

we're in it, right, just in a pattern like I am the pattern, I'm caught in the vortex I don't even know how to differentiate myself from it, which happens all the time. It can be so hard, especially when we're deep in our patterning and then our vortexes and then in the experience of our trauma, then it's so hard to be the witness.

Yeah. And that still happens to us. 200% 100%.

Yes,

yeah. Yeah, we really like that way of putting it. Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for I, I look forward to hanging out and doing this in person. I'd love to take you surfing, if you want to go surfing and then

I never it's kind of scary. You know what I don't know. It's you know, about the whole tummy time thing. Probably. I've never heard of it until quite recently. And I realized that if I imagined myself like crawling on my tummy, I would not use my legs like they would just be linked. They wouldn't. We need to do some

Feldenkrais together, we need to devise an SE influence to Yeah, I'm

up for that. So surfing is a challenge, because my balance has been off like my whole life. And I realize it's very connected to that. Yes,

yeah. Oh, fun. Oh, we can have some fun together. I really want to eventually run some surf camps that are rooted in like, exploring more of what's happening from the threat response cycle. And like the fear that shows up when we're exposed to something like the ocean and especially if it's out of comfort levels and like weaving in the the explorations around fear and yeah, patterning in relationship to how we're playing with playing really, but you know, there's so much that can be entangled there. So I have to come to Costa Rica to do that.

I love that trauma informed surfing. Oh my god, right. Yeah, yeah.

One day that'll come together. Oh, anything. So that's the joys of being that doer. Go, go, go. Go Go is Yeah. So many ideas of what I can do.

Yes, the creativity is so yeah, it really is. I really, thank you so much. Thank

you. Anything else you wanted to say around? Well, we'll put your information in the show notes on where to find you and any other resources you want to direct anyone to but anything else you want to name around, finding you or anything.

Just don't hesitate to reach out if you're listening and you want to chat like I'm very open. So, so reach out. Awesome. I love it.

Thank you again, so much, Marina.