Managing Addictions Through Divorce And Beyond

Welcome to the D shift podcast, where we provide inspiration, motivation and education to help you transition from the challenges of divorce to discover the freedom and ability to live life on your own terms. Are you ready? Let's get the shift started. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the D Shift and I am super excited. This is like my week to interview people from my own stomping grounds of British Columbia because we've had three people that I've interviewed last week from British Columbia. So number three, this is gratis platter and she is an amazing person. I met her at an event called podapalooza. And I was just captivated by the information and the invaluable support that she provides family. So pandas is an addictions therapist, she specializes in working with families of people with addictions. She is an international to time award winning author. And I am just thrilled to have Candace here. And Candace, welcome to the day

shift. Thank you. Hi, everyone.

And I would like to put you right into the fire here today, Candace and ask you to what got you to this very specialized area of therapy that you work with people in and give us a little bit of background and why your passion is in this area.

Okay, yeah, I'd love to, I just want to let people know I've got a little bit of a voice thing or throat thing going on today. So if you hear me clearing my throat or something like that, just bear with me. So I think the the relevant part of my story starts in the early 70s. So that's about 50 years ago, I was out with a friend for lunch. And within an hour or so I was violently ill. And we both thought that it was food poisoning because it was those kinds of symptoms, you know, the kinds of symptoms nobody wants to talk about. And, and we both thought that's what it was, and it would just pass but it didn't. And it wasn't that. And finally it took a while I was finally diagnosed with Crohn's disease. At that point, Crohn's was a very new disease, and doctors didn't know what to do for it. Today, a lot of people know about Crohn's, they either have Crohn's, or they know somebody who does. So it's an inflammatory bowel disease that can be very, very debilitating, and painful and difficult to deal with embarrassing, difficult. I'm a lot better now. Because I've learned how to take care of myself. I've had it for 50 years, there seems to be no known cause or cure for this thing. But at that point, because the doctors didn't know what to do, they, they had this young woman who was sobbing and always in pain in their office. And so they just gave me a whole lot of medication. And I didn't know because addiction was not on the radar back then at all. I had no idea what they were unleashing upon me. And I don't think they did either. I think today doctors know what they're doing a whole lot more than they did back then. And maybe that's another conversation we can have at some point. But but you know, what they were giving me were Valium, drugs. They were giving me like out of them and those kinds of drugs. They were giving me a lot of opioids, they were giving me codeine and Demerol and morphine and Oxycontin. Just all of the however much I wanted. I could get it renewed whenever I wanted. It was it was, you know, heaven for me, because not only did I like the feeling of being high, but I I wasn't in so much pain. So, you know, and I smoked a lot more pot at that point, too, because anything I could do to kind of escape my very difficult reality at that time. It was what I did, but it went on for a lot of years. And so I was basically an opioid addict, without even knowing it for about 15 years.

Wow. Yeah, yeah.

And the thing about those drugs including pot is that they are depressants in the human system. They're not like Coke. cane that, you know, makes you feel wonderful and high. It there depressants. At the end of that time, at the end of those years, I was so depressed, that I was actually suicidal. I didn't want to live anymore. I had enough pills I could take, I've really had a decision that I needed to make. And I knew it was going to be the most important decision ever. Do I live? Or do I die? Do I stay? Or do I go, you know, obviously, I stayed, what I did was I picked up the phone and I called the Vancouver crisis line. I'm in Vancouver, Canada, and somebody at the end of that four line, save my life, just by listening to me and respecting me and hearing my pain and not minimizing me, you know, because the doctors were trying to tell me it was all in my head, which it was not. So, you know, that was kind of the beginning of my recovery. And then I started going to 12 Step programs, Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous codependents, anonymous, all the anonymous groups, you know, and, and that was a real beginning for me of opening my eyes to what was going on for me in my life, and why I was so depressed and why I was using these drugs, aside from the Crohn's, which was legitimate, right, I was using them a lot because of emotional pain that I had been in my whole life, really. So I went to those programs for about 10 years of my recovery. I'm 35 years, clean and sober now. 35 consecutive years. Yeah, thank you. I'm not even sure how that happened. But here it is. And as I started to really, you know, I don't quite know how to say it. But as as some of the filters went away, and I could see things clearly. For me what happened, and I know, this isn't everybody's experience. But what happened was, I listened to what they were saying, in those rooms, in the 12 step rooms, they were talking about addiction being a disease. They were talking about addiction being that I was powerless over my disease, that I would relapse. If I didn't go to a meeting every day, I was going to relapse for the rest of my life, I was going to relapse, you know, and and that that was a normal natural part of recovery. So I started to take notice of these kinds of teachings that were like dogma that still are in those programs. I have a medical disease, I know what having a disease is like, I can't get rid of Crohn's Try as I might, it just doesn't. It goes into remission, it comes back. I'm gonna just meet my Sorry, I shouldn't have done that before. Yeah, but I so I can't get rid of Crohn's, but I can get rid of addiction. I was 10 years clean and sober. And they're telling me I'm powerless over this. And then I'm gonna relapse, I'd never relapsed. I'd had occasion to, I'd had, I had to have surgery, and I had to be on painkillers for a little while I made a decision to stop that, you know, when I, what I knew was that I had made a choice. I had made a decision to be clean and sober in my life. And if people want to look at it as a disease, because yes, there's brain involvement, of course, of course. But you know, there's brain involvement in every single thing we do, like me moving my finger, you know, there's brain involvement. That's how we're wired. So just saying that there's brain involvement in addiction doesn't make it a disease per se, a medical disease. So I just knew that I was not powerless over this. I had been making that decision every day for 10 years. And I started moving away from those programs and looking at it differently. So you know, there's a lot of different schools of thought about addiction and what it really is. Some people think of it as a disease. Some people think that it's because of a genetic predisposition. And maybe that's true, but the scientists have not yet made a real delineation with that. Like, in the 35 years, I've been in recovery. The scientists have been looking at this and still haven't come to a conclusion. But I see it in the families I work with. I see it in the generations of these families. So I don't know if it's a predisposition or whether it's something lower And in the home, right? Oh, when the when the going gets tough you do something to not have to feel it. Like a Coface crappy. Yeah, yeah, coping strategy, right? So, but underneath all of that, if you want to look at it as a disease or predisposition or whatever, underneath that is a choice that people make to either stay in addiction once they're in it. I don't think anybody chooses to become an addict. Nobody says, gee, I think I'll be an addict. Right? That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. But once we're in it, we have a choice about whether we're going to pick up that phone and get help, go to a meeting decide to stay clean and sober or not. Right? To stay in addiction, or to stay in or to go into recovery is a choice that people make, and we make it every day. And everybody, everybody that's in recovery now knows that that's true. Right? We all know that. That's true. Okay. So I think I think as addicts we know that that's true, too. But so that's,

that's, that's a really interesting, thank you for sharing that because it is really confusing for an editor. And I, we were talking a little bit before the before we started this interview. But a lot of the times I and I was saying I work with a lot of clients who have said they have stayed in a relationship that they knew was toxic, they knew it was over, they knew was unhealthy. But they stayed in it because they were afraid of what would happen to the addict if they left and that person was on their own. And they just felt that they would be ringing the death knell for that individual if they walked out the door for them. And what I'm hearing you say is, that may not be the reality because ultimately, it's that addicts choice every day, whether they use or get help or go on the path to recovery or go farther down the addiction road is what I'm hearing you say.

I believe that with all of my heart, all of my soul, the the person that's going to ring that death now, if that null is wrong, is the addict themselves. Nobody can make nobody could have made me decide to kill myself. Nobody could have made me decide not to kill myself if I was hell bent on killing myself. That's a choice. We all this is a planet of freewill. And addicts who are still in active addiction. I call people addicts sometimes, people think that stigmatizing but you know, we're addicts, let's call it what it is. People who who choose to stay in active addiction are some of the most manipulative people walking the planet. And I was too when I was in it, we kind of have to be it's kind of our job, you know. So. So one of the things that addicts like to do is gaslight. And gaslighting is when you throw it on to somebody else, you throw your own pain onto somebody else, you slime someone else, basically. So, you know, the addicts manipulate their loved ones who are so scared and so desperate and don't know what to do, because there's not a lot of help out there for family members for the spouses or the siblings or the parents, you know. And they say, Well, you know, in fact, I'll, I'll tell you that there's a joke, it's called a joke. It's not a funny joke. But it's it's something that people say in Alcoholics Anonymous, that you drink, too, if you had a wife like mine. You drink too if you had a wife like mine, well, that's ridiculous. You're drinking because you want to drink, period, full stop. Right has nothing to do with anybody else in your life. I don't care what they're doing or not doing or you're there's a lot of ways to deal with life differently than just you know, self sabotage. Right? So So So what the what the addict or alcoholic or whatever child would want to say to the parent or the loved one is it's your fault, your rotten Mother, your terrible wife, look what you do to me, look how you are with me. And, and they, the loved ones believe that because often, they've come from families that help them believe that about themselves that they were responsible for everything that they weren't responsible for. So they grow up and they have relationships with people or work or contribute in their children's lives to this dynamic going on because that's what they know to do. It's what they know to do. They don't want to do that. They don't mean to do that. And, and, and, and what loved ones don't understand is how important how vital they are to this whole situation and that they have so much. I don't want to say power, because I don't mean control kind of power, but they have so much influence, if they're doing the right thing, even if they're doing the wrong things, if they're doing the right things. Or the wrong things, they have so much influence over how the situation is going to evolve. So they might as well learn how to do the right things. And that's where somebody like me comes in. Okay,

so, so this, this is a really great question for because a lot of the people listening in today are probably in the divorce they are or post divorce, they may be co parenting with somebody who's addicted, or they may be trying to make a decision whether or not to leave somebody who's addicted. So can you talk a little bit about that whole, enabling codependency sort of dynamic that gets going that you started, you know, you touched on it a little bit, but you're gonna be talking about how to stop doing that and start actually doing like you said, those positive influence things that are going to help yourself and maybe help the addict? I don't know if that's

possible. But yeah, definitely, it's possible. Yeah. And one, I'll just, I'll just respond to what you said about the divorce situation and these families. When sometimes what happens is that the spouses are not addicted, there isn't, you know, they're not putting divorcing a spouse because somebody's addicted. But they, their child, maybe their adult child, their son or daughter is addicted. The two parents are dealing with this in very different ways. For example, the husband, the wife, it's usually the woman just is, but sometimes it's the man, but it's usually the woman, the wife, who the mother, who's, who's enabling who's doing everything she can for the he just wants to help and she's doing everything she can kind of thing. And that husband is kind of like the father's like. So you've got two very distinct ways of dealing with it. And there's a lot of conflict with the parents, with the husband and wife around that. And sometimes that can cause divorce as well. Right. So it's not it's not always the spouse's addiction that causes the divorce, but it often is.

That's a great point. Thank you. Yeah. Because I see that quite often that there's, they're, you know, they the the couple divorcing your right has no addiction problem. It's the adult child or the the, you know, young, young adult child or older adult child.

Yep. Yeah. You know, sometimes, that can be 50 years old, and come back and live with mom and dad, because they're still using, they're still involved in the addiction, because the parents haven't known how to help. Rather than enable, nobody's told them, there just isn't a lot of information out there. That that really works, you know, for the loved ones, of people with addiction. And it's like, the family members, and sometimes it's friends, sometimes it's colleagues, sometimes it's, it isn't always family, but whoever is the loved one of the addict, who's still using is sitting in the same roller coaster car with them right next to them. Sure. And it is a roller coaster, it's a roller coaster of chaos. And so when when the addict is doing okay, in their lives, and sometimes there are times when they are the loved one is doing okay, because they're on the same roller coaster. Right? And if, and if and when it starts going down, and things aren't doing that well for the addict, then the loved one goes down to and starts worrying and obsessing and, you know, making every single about them. So, to get into a little bit about the difference between enabling and actually helping, I like really simple definitions. So the definition I've come up with around enabling is when you do for somebody else, what they can actually should be doing for themselves on a pretty consistent basis. Okay. So it's also a codependent stance to enable somebody else. And my definition of codependency kind of joins in with the definition for enabling is when you put other people's needs ahead of your On on a consistent basis, and your own needs go on the back burner, right. And so many people who are loved ones of addicts grew up in dysfunctional families, and learn how to be codependent. And they felt like that was kind of their role to put everybody's needs ahead of their own. And that's how they stayed safe, right? Some pretty unsafe situations, until that's healed, you just keep carrying that around, you just keep doing that. So, enabling behaviors are some of the typical ones are, of course, giving money to an addict. When you know where that money's gonna go, right? It's gonna go down their throat, into their arm up their nose, whatever, right? You know, and you're still Mom, I need 20 bucks. Well, 20 bucks doesn't seem like that much. And if I don't give it to him or her, he's gonna get really mad at me. And I don't like conflict as a codependent person. I don't like conflict, I'll do anything I can to avoid conflict, because I've never learned how to deal with conflict in a good way. So, okay, okay, here's 20 bucks, and you know, you shouldn't be giving the 20 bucks, you know, it's not a good thing to do. You do it anywhere you feel guilty, you feel shameful. You feel all of these things, when you're enabling. So another example of enabling would be allowing an addict to live in the family home, without contributing very much, if at all, to the family home. And that could be a spouse, that could be a spouse who maybe has lost their job, because they kept being late or they weren't going to work on their work, performance was suffering and they were fired. You know, what the codependent spouse will do is call up the workplace and say, Oh, he can't come in today, because he's sick. You know, and that only goes so far. But again, when you lie for an addict, or you do something that you know, is detrimental to the addict, right? When you enable like that, you don't feel good about yourself, your self respect, which is such an important piece of all of this takes a definite hit. Yeah. Yeah. So. So what needs what what loved ones need to understand? Is that enabled, addicts? don't recover? Because really, why should they? Yeah. Right. You want to come enable me, I'll go, I will work for a while, you know, and they will the addicts don't recover. So by giving the 20 bucks by letting them stay in the home and, and sleep all day, and drink or use all night, and just really could be be emotionally terrible, verbally abusive, sometimes physically abusive, that's not helping the addict that keeps the addict stuck in the addiction, because they have no incentive to come out of the addiction. Right? Right. So enabling is never a loving act. It might feel loving to you at the time. Yeah, he was 20 bucks. But you know, it isn't, you know, it's not, you know, this doesn't make sense. And it keeps the addict stuck. So what loved ones need to learn is that by saying no, to an addict, by having really loving, healthy boundaries, threes that are self respecting to oneself, right, but but that are loving towards the attic, to have boundaries that have attached to those boundaries, a consequence, that means something to the addict. If you keep doing this, then this will happen. And you probably won't like it kind of kind of deal is actually you know, people call it tough love. And they and a lot of people say oh, like tough love, you know, the tough love is love. And it's actually I think the most loving kind of love there is because you're saying I don't want to support your addiction anymore. I want to support your recovery. Right? So I am going to say no to you when you want 20 bucks for me because I know you're going to buy drugs with it so I'm not going to support you and your addiction anymore. I love you so much. I love you so much. Even if I don't always like you, I love you so much. I am not going to do things that keep your addiction Enrolling.

And I think that's a that's a great perspective. And we have this has gone too fast. Again, it's we have got to we've got to have another one of these because this time just has flown by I mean, this is this is, I think really important for us all, because most people if we don't know an addict, we know a family who is dealing with somebody who is in addiction or struggling with it. So

everybody does. I mean, it's so rampant now,

with all this information you shared, Candace, what? What would you like to boil it down to one, one or two sentences that you think people should remember when they hear not this podcast and go about their daily business? What would you like them to remember?

I would like them to remember that addicts can change, then I'm perfect example of that. I'm living proof of it. Because I would have not always been this person you see here. And what it takes is helping them get to a place where they have the incentive to do that. And as the loved one, you play this integral part, you're so important to this whole equation. Whether you know it or not, you really are. And if you don't know what to do, I'm gonna suggest that you reach out to my company, which is love with boundaries. It's called Love with boundaries, because we need to love addicts. And we need to love them with boundaries.

Great. So that's, that's a perfect scenario, or a perfect segue into the next question, I'm going to ask you, if if people do want to get ahold of you at love with boundaries, what's the best way to do that?

The best way to do it is go to love with boundaries.com, I'm going to be changing up my website a little bit, not a whole lot, but it should still be functional. While that's happening. So go to love with boundaries and a.com. And you will see a link to a questionnaire to fill out. What we offer is a free 30 minute intake consultation. So we will we will give you 30 minutes free to tell us about what's going on with you. We will tell you how we work, we'll see if it's a fit. If it is we're just gonna keep going. And if it's not, that's just fine. It's no strings, no obligation. If you're in trouble, if you don't know what to do, if you would like to kind of nip this in the bud before it gets to be too troublesome. If you know someone who's having this situation, then please tell them about love with boundaries we would love to hear from from you from them. This is happening all over the world and families, wonderful families all over the world. It's not anything to be ashamed of anymore. It's something to get help with, so that we can kick addiction to the curb. We can if we stop enabling

Yeah. I love that message. Candace, thank you so much. And all canvases information is in the show notes. And Kansas. What are the what are the titles of your two books if people want to take off? What you what you?

I have them right here. The one I'm best known for is loving an addict loving yourself. It's the top 10 survival tips for loving someone with an addiction. Great. And the other one is a workbook that goes with it. Okay, it's loving an addict loving yourself the workbook. One and yeah. It's a very good workbook, lots of really good information and questions. For people who are loved one, please don't give my books to your addicts. The addicts do not like my books. They hate my books. I'm talking about boundaries. I'm talking about saying no. But but so these are for you. If you're a loved one, please, I hope you'll take a look at them.

And thank you and yes, people, please if you are dealing with this, you do not have to deal with it on your own. I always say you don't have to do your divorce by yourself. And Candace is saying, You don't have to deal with being a loved one of an addict on your own. There is support out there. So please, please, please, not just for not just for yourself, but if you know a family that's struggling, I'm giving Candace this information and let's see if we can get some help for those. Those people that are trying to help their loved ones move from addiction into recovery. Candice, thank you so much for being on the D Shift and I look forward to having you on for another another conversation a little bit

later. Sure. I'd love that. Bye, everyone.