Russell Harvey, known as The Resilience Coach, shares valuable insights on building resilience as a mindset and a practical skill. He challenges us to see resilience not just as recovery from setbacks but as a way to grow, learn, and move forward with purpose. Russell explores how self-awareness, intentional reflection, and recognizing patterns in our behavior can help us better understand our emotional responses and develop strategies to manage them effectively.
Throughout our conversation, Russell emphasizes the importance of maintaining energy, building support systems, and staying connected to a clear purpose. He discusses how resilience is built through small, consistent actions and the ability to embrace challenges with a balanced perspective. His approach highlights the value of grounded optimism, strategic pauses, and leveraging our strengths to navigate uncertainty with confidence and clarity.
5 Key Takeaways:
Resources Mentioned
The Inspire Your Team to Greatness assessment (the Courage Assessment)
How can you inspire our team to be more proactive, take ownership and get more done?
You demonstrate and empower The Courage of a Leader. In my nearly 3 decades of work with leaders, I’ve discovered the 11 things that leaders do – even very well-intentioned leaders do – that kill productivity.
In less than 10 minutes, find out where you’re empowering and inadvertently kills productivity, and get a custom report that will tell you step by step what you need to have your team get more done.
https://courageofaleader.com/inspireyourteam/
About the Guest:
Russell Harvey is a Resilience Coach, Facilitator, and Public Speaker with a mission to positively impact 100,000 people by 2025. With over 20 years of experience in Learning, Leadership, and Organisational Development, Russell helps individuals and teams build confidence, gain clarity, and drive positive change.
Using a strengths-based approach and positive psychology, Russell strikes a balance between being practical, creative, and supportive while challenging his clients to progress.
Outside of his coaching work, Russell is the Chair of Governors at a local primary school, a volunteer with Leeds Young Authors, and runs public speaking workshops for students.
https://www.theresiliencecoach.co.uk/
About the Host:
Amy L. Riley is an internationally renowned speaker, author and consultant. She has over 2 decades of experience developing leaders at all levels. Her clients include Cisco Systems, Deloitte and Barclays.
As a trusted leadership coach and consultant, Amy has worked with hundreds of leaders one-on-one, and thousands more as part of a group, to fully step into their leadership, create amazing teams and achieve extraordinary results.
Amy’s most popular keynote speeches are:
Her new book is a #1 international best-seller and is entitled, The Courage of a Leader: How to Inspire, Engage and Get Extraordinary Results.
http://www.courageofaleader.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/amyshoopriley
Thanks for listening!
Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.
Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!
Subscribe to the podcast
If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the, podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.
Leave us an Apple Podcasts review
Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.
Teaser for Next Episode
Genevieve Retzlaff, the founder and CEO of Grow Better Together, explores leadership as a journey, focusing on self-awareness, trust, vulnerability, and creating space for growth and innovation.
Mentioned in this episode:
The Inspire Your Team to Greatness assessment (The Courage Assessment)
https://courageofaleader.com/inspireyourteam/
Right now in our world, we need leaders acting with courage and to consistently act with courage takes resilience. So I'm glad that you're here to listen to Russell Harvey, the resilience coach who tells us how to think about and build resilience so that we can spring forward with learning rather than assuming we're using up and we're going to run out of this finite resiliency reserve that we have.
Welcome to the Courage of a Leader podcast. This is where you hear real life stories of top leaders achieving extraordinary results, and you get practical advice and techniques you can immediately apply for your own success. This is where you will get inspired and take bold, courageous action. I'm so glad you can join us. I'm your host. Amy Riley, now are you ready to step into the full power of your leadership and achieve the results you care about most? Let's ignite the Courage of a Leader.
Russell, thank you for being with me today on the Courage of a Leader podcast.
Thank Amy. I'm really looking forward to having the conversation. Thank you for having me on Yes. Glad
to have you here so Russell, we know that our world today, it's uncertain, it's ambiguous, it's complex, it definitely calls for resilience in us. So we're going to talk today about how do we intentionally develop resilience? But where I'd like to start is with your definition of resilience, because I think it has some important positioning.
Thank Amy, yes. So I define resilience as springing forward with learning, springing forward with learning. One of the reasons for that, and I know it's a play on words, I'm personally not a fan of this term bounce back is there in all of the research around resilience. So the reason that I'm not a fan of it is what I observe is most people will face into a challenging life event. They'll face into it with whatever levels of resilience they've got, and then they'll say to themselves, right? I'll now bounce back, go back to how I was. There's a bit of a subconscious instruction to go, right? I've done that, and I'll now go back. And I'm sitting there or standing there and wave my arms and going, you can't go back. We can only move forward in life. So I and I'm really curious about so what have you learned from your experiences? And in the learning comes the resilience, comes the resilience building, and so that, that's why I define it as springing forward with learning and so resilient people, that's what they do, and that shifts them away from perpetually surviving and coping, and it shifts them towards thriving. So there's a bit of a concern as well, that people feel like they are only being resilient when they're surviving and coping, but actually true resilience, where you've actually built it and you've got a good level of it, those individuals are thriving in a full on, crazy, volatile, complex, ambiguous world, rather than just hanging on. Yeah,
I'm glad we're talking about why you define it the way that you do Russell, because it'd be easy to just take in springing forward with learning, yeah, that sounds great, but it's really important. From a mindset perspective, there can be something that comes out of this, not great experience, that knocked us back on our heels, but we can end up in a new place, on our journey, on our Absolutely yeah, yeah. And a different kind of energy to it than I gotta get back up. I gotta get back up. You fall. And then that feels like that energy is gonna run out. Well,
it will, it will, because that's brilliantly articulated. I shall steal that future reference, all right. You know, it is about the energy levels, because I get worried as well that people only see resilience as just keeping going regardless. So how you actually behaviourally achieve springing forward with learning is that it's making the conscious choice because you see the value and benefit from all of life's events, the good ones and the not so good ones of pausing. Okay, now in the pausing includes re energizing and reflection. Okay, okay, so there's lots of our words here. There's Russell, the resilience coach, there's, you know, reflection, and there's re energies, just to let the letter R comes out an awful, an awful lot in here. Oh. Um, yeah, by design, absolutely, absolutely whatever life's experience has happened to is, if it's a really great experience, okay, we've used loads of energy, then we'll be nice tired, yeah, okay, so you need to re energize from nice tired being an unpleasant experience. You are not nice tired. You're a bit broken, you know, so you have to reenergize from that. So my rhetorical question for you is like, what's the difference for you? How do you re energize from nice tired and not so nice tired? What are the things that you do? There might be a difference in that. So from a leadership point of view, that's really important, and Pausing. Pausing includes chatting to a coach, chatting to a friend, going for a walk, pausing is actually having a different conversation in your team meetings. That's a version of pausing as well practical real world. How to be a resilient leader. It's like so team, we have had an experience recently. Let's pause. Let's have a chat about it. Let's understand what worked really well for us in this experience, about behaviorally and mindset and our levels of resilience and our adaptability and our learning, and what didn't work well for us, and how can we take those learnings forward, yeah, into the next experience that we have around it. So actually, we could learn from this and face into the next challenge differently, or actually, how we, whether we do actually view it as a challenge, might change. Because if we've learned, we go all this, this has happened to us before. Oh, we know how to deal with this. So we'll go, we're not seeing it as a bad, frightening thing. Where we know we can face into it. So if the negative thing in the past, we learn from it. Go, oh, actually, we know what to do. We feel better about it. I'm not actually viewing it as yet another Oh, my God, experience. It's like, oh, okay, right. We can do this. We can face into this. We can
collectively change the perspective, the mindset, on that type of work, with that kind of acknowledgement. Look at what we learned. Look at what we're now capable of. Yeah, absolutely, that all of this, the springing forward with learning, can create momentum.
Totally, yeah, the RE
energizing. I think this is a really nice distinction that you were making, Russell. I've called it I'm happy tired. Yeah, yeah, happy tired, nice, tired and the knackered. Can you give us some examples of what might be I mean, obviously it's very individual. And what re energizes me might be very different for you, Russell, but where do people
look when I work with clients? This is where I bring in the whole strengths based approach. So in the US, I think you're all familiar with Strength Finder, and in the UK, I use Strength Scope, so there's a real crossover between them. So this is about as part of how you build your resilience, it is absolutely understanding what your natural energizes and strengths are. So strengths, your natural energizes that on the stereoscope, there's 24 of them, and you, you do a psychometric, you can get your significant seven. So three of my significant seven are collaboration, uh huh, at strategic mindedness and developing others. Okay? So those, those are my that's when I'm at my bestest, best. So there is a strong likelihood that when we're in nice tired, it's because we have been playing to our strengths. Okay? It's like I've been doing the thing that naturally energizes me, and it's naturally really good. Jam, and, you know, there's critical thinking, there's detail, orientation, there's creativity, there's flexibility that, yeah. So it's like, when you're nice tired, it's more than likely you've been able to use those okay, and you can use them too much. So when you're knackered, it's more than likely that you have not been playing to your strengths. Yeah. So the thing that I'm energized by the least is detail. Okay, so I can do detail, I can do it, but if you ask me to do it, it's like my bubbles burst. So I go into the knackered phase, because it's like, I've had to do an awful lot of detail. The analogy is, is a boat analogy, of like, there's a hole in my boat, and water is coming in, the sea is coming in. And when I do detail, it's literally, it's me trying to use a bucket to get the sea out of my boat. Okay, so who's going to win the sea for my bucket? Some point the sea? C, yeah. So it's more than likely, in a work sense and a life sense that I am a bit broken is because in those moments you've not managed to harness, either harness your natural strengths, or you've had to spend lots of time doing things that you really find de energizing. So you know, recovering from having played to your strengths is different from you going, I am proud. Broken. I am a bit battered and bruised. I My starting point is I've literally just, I might just have to look at the wall and dribble. I just need
I can that it would just help to be able to acknowledge No wonder I'm tired. Yeah, that was not energizing. Strength work for me. So I guess that's that's a takeaway I'd love every listener to have is, first of all, know what your strengths are, those things that you're good at and energize you that was important about how Russell was talking about them. And then we can see how much have I been engaging in my strengths lately? No wonder I'm exhausted from this day, and then what do we do about it? Russ, I mean, is it a nap? Is it doing our hobby? Is it? Yeah. So it's like, go take a walk.
It's all those things. And just an additional thing about why the strengths thing is so important to resilience is because when you play to your strengths and understand them. They build natural resilience and natural confidence. So they're all interconnected, and confidence is one of the specific dimensions of being resilient. So there's just so many exponential benefits about you taking this strength based approach, and so from there it is, yeah, so it's what re energizes. It might be a hobby. It's a little bit as well of understanding whether you're on this sort of extroversion, introversion. Are you re energized by others? Are you energized by your own sort of internal solar panel, you know? And but then it's a case of, even in the workplace, you might go actually. So I've been working on a particular project, which I'm for whatever reason, I'm not managing to play to my natural strength. So gosh, I am tired well, and there might be, do you know what? There's another project I'm working on where I am. So Right? I'll go work on that project because I'm, I'm being more of me. That will be another way of doing it as well. Because there's so many different ways in which you can re energize yourself because, because it comes back to your natural strengths. It's just like, it's like this just an enormous list, because it's individual. Yeah, the other thing that people can do is maybe both reflect back and look forward on when they were most energy, recently energized in the workplace.
Yes. And how do I get more of that, yeah, and
how to get more of that? And you go, actually, you know what? I reflect back on my week, Wednesday and Thursday, oh, god, yeah, fantastic. Loved it, Monday and Friday, oh, God, oh, they were horrible, right, right. Let's reflect. And I go, alright, so going forward, when I view next week. Where? Where am I excited? Where do my energies go? What do you go? Do you know what? And there's nothing. It's not until Friday next week that that the thing that I enjoy doing is happening. Oh gosh, Monday, the Thursday, right? I need to change that. It's about harnessing it day to day. Essentially, is the best way for you to be re energizing yourself all of the time,
we have to bring that awareness and then see how we can intentionally shift to more strengths. Because I'm thinking, Russell, someone listening might think, Oh, well, I'm doing work that doesn't use my strengths, but that's part of my job. I have to do it like, What are you talking about use more of my strengths, but I'm thinking about one of your strengths is collaborating. Well, if this is the thing that we're like, I could do it solo, yes, but could I create value added ways to bring other people into the work so that you are actually having an experience of collaborating, right? Can we talk through this part together, or can we review this piece together? Like, how do you do it? Different ways to bring in your strength, I tell
you, and this is so support network is one of the dimensions of being resilient as well. Yes, okay, a resilient leader builds a resilient team. So knowing your own strengths and actually know your own people's strengths, but actually support them to go discover each other's strengths. So every time you've got a piece of work that you've got to do as part of your roles and responsibilities, it is absolutely chatting to other people to sort of go, I'm working on this, who who's energized by that, who's excited, or I'm struggling with this, and it's like I'm not feeling it, and somebody else might be sitting there and going, Oh God, I if I could, oh, if I could get involved in that, that would be brilliant. You go, Ah, right. So it isn't the fact that you abdicate that work to somebody else. It's a case of, this is my responsibility, because it's my job role. But actually I have harnessed your strengths, and then it's a case of this reciprocity in there, because then you do need to say something. So what can I do for you? Now, all of this, how I'm talking about this, is actually coming from one of my strengths, the collaboration strength. There's some people listening now don't have the energy for collaboration. Because they'll be listening and going, I'm not driven by working with others. Russell, it doesn't naturallyise Me. So that's that's where you have to see the value and the benefit in it, for you to do the behavior change, to sort of go, Okay, so I'm not a natural collaborator, but I understand collectively, for me to build my own and the other team members resilience. There are times I've got to engage with others. Okay,
support network is an aspect of this, regardless of our strengths, regardless of our preference for introversion or extrovert Absolutely. Yeah, wow. What? What is your support network? Build your awareness around that and build that support network. Yeah,
it is. We all need one. We are social creatures, and it's not about the size and the scale of the support network. It's just every individual. It's just have one, create one, nurture it. Yeah, it doesn't matter how big or small or medium it is. It's just like, it's one of the dimensions of being resilient is having a support network that enables you. Essentially,
yes, brilliant Russell. Let me pause us here. I want to tell listeners more about you. Russell Harvey, the resilience coach, is a dynamic and engaging leadership coach and facilitator, public speaker, Managing Director, non Executive Director, podcaster and radio host with over 20 years of experience in learning, leadership and organization development, Russell's areas of specialization include resilience in our modern world of uncertainty and ambiguity, executive coaching and leadership development, talent management, career coaching, facilitation, change, leadership and creativity.
Goalie,
yeah, Russell's facilitation style, you've heard it, is engaging, empathetic and pragmatic. He challenges people to think and reflect on their behavior and encourages them to rediscover their mojo. Russell has a depth of qualifications that includes certificates in training, education and coaching, and in addition to his work with clients, Russell is the chair of governors of a local primary school and a volunteer with Leeds Youth Authors. Glad to have you with us today, Russell, thank you.
Gosh, that's like, you forget all the things that you've done in life, and when that's played back to you going, is that me? Did I alright? Yeah, okay, I did all that.
You must be springing forward with learning, Russell,
I am trying my best. Amy, I am trying my best Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. It's also interesting to note in there, of like, along the way, there's been some bumps, so part of that is actually being made redundant six times. Okay? So people sometimes listen to sort of say, Oh yeah, everything's alright. But you've had a, you know, a great life. Well, I wonder you've sprung forward with learning, yeah, but there so, so, you know, other reasons about how come people should listen to us or engage with us. It's like, yeah, there's been some challenges along the way as well. I've had to find my path, and that's part of the story as well. Essentially, yeah, anything
that you want to share with us about what you've personally learned in dealing
with on the from all of this, it is very much, what I really learned is find your purpose. Essentially, I
was going to ask about that other dimensions a perfect segue. Yeah, okay,
so out of all of that 20 year history and what drives you, there's there's a story behind how the resilience coach came about. And one of the dimensions of being resilient is having a purpose. So I have one. And as a result of all an explanation and all and the six redundancies, so by the year 2025, I want to positively affect 100,000 people. And right now I'm up to about 77,012
ish, well done.
So the positively effect is when an individual, a client, somebody that if I'm doing a speech, or I'm facilitating a session, or has listened to a podcast, and they go, I've learned something, I've got something. I've had a light bulb moment I've had a realization. Moment they go from confused face to Aha. Moments, you know, when I see that happening in front of me, it positively affects me. It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside my stomach, and I do it for a living. It started that. The Birthplace of it was in 1996 in Hong Kong. That's that was the kernel for all of that. I was teaching English to Hong Kong Chinese people off the street in four hour English lessons, because I was traveling around the world for a year, and some magic was happening in the room, and I was going, I don't know what this is, but I love it, and I want to do it for a living, but I don't know what to call it. And it transpired later. It was people learning, and I think that probably really feeds into why I define resilience as springing forward with learning, because when you learn, that's when behavior change happens. That's. You build your confidence, and that's when you have more courage. Amy
like you say, it's all connected. Russell, right? So
how do people distinguish their purpose? Russell, I call it leadership legacy, right? What's the purpose of our leadership? What do we bring to every interaction, every project, every relationship. I'm imagining, the answers that this can be worded and felt an infinite number of ways, right? Because it's very personal, tell us the range or what our purpose might sound like. Okay,
so it has got something to do with your value system, yeah. So you do need to understand, get just have some inkling of what your values are. Yeah, it's also, you know, it is about looking back on your life to date, it doesn't matter how old you are, and asking yourself the question around, what have you done that's made you feel proud? Okay, so you either led something or just involved in something or a team member. It's just what, what gave you a feeling of of pride, and that will start to give you some clues about what makes you tick, what your strengths, your skills, your your capabilities are. And these things, then they give you meaning, and they get you out of bed each day, and they motivate you, and they drive you, and they they give you some grounding. Essentially, when you feel like things are all at sea, revisit your values and your strengths and your skills and your meaning, and then that goes into a purpose. So without having it's not about having multiple purposes. But I also, then, when I work with clients, I ask them, very similar to you, I go, so what's your leadership purpose? What's your reason? You know when when, and you can think about and all sorts of different ways of when you leave the room, what you want people to say about you, or if you ask for feedback, what's, what's the feedback that you would like to have about who you are as a leader and what you've given and what you're doing for them, and what your intention is, essentially, what are you here to do? You know, as a result of being a leader, and then that should energize them, yes, yes. So they, once again, they get their energy from their purpose, essentially. So
that's yeah. I invite all listeners to define your purpose. I don't think that this has to take a long time. No, some reflection. I mean, you mentioned it's in your strength area. It's where you have passion and it's where you have this feeling of pride or motivation or meaning, right? Where all of that is intersecting. That's your purpose. And put it in your words.
Absolutely, yeah, totally put it in the words and then, and that is your, that's your guiding, Guiding Light, for want of a better principle, it's like, what's inside you, essentially, so when all around might feel as though it is just is completely full on, it you, but you're sort of saying, Actually, I can thrive, because I understand within this actually, I am doing, delivering, aiming for achieving my purpose, and then so how you then think and feel about your current circumstances that will be different, because at the heart of resilience is our attitude. Yes, all aspects of this dimensions I'm talking about resilience are on the resilience wheel that I talk about, which is built upon research, and there's seven aspects to it, and I've referred to most of them so far in our conversation, but they're all interconnected, essentially, absolutely,
I was going to ask you to make that Direct Connect for us between purpose and resilience, and I'm hearing it has to do that that's acknowledging that self fulfilling, that is springing us forward when we know that we're fulfilling our purpose and we're making a difference day to day, and we're in our sweet spot, right? I mean, that's just automatically propelling us forward. It
is most definitely so it's choosing a way for people listening now to make the decision to engage with their resilience and developing their resilience week by week, day to day, in a way they find interesting and enjoyable. It's not about any additional chore on top of their to do list. That's absolutely not where I am coming from. It's most definitely about actually, how can we make your to do list very, very different, but actually, yeah, so one of the things is, is to engage with your resilience, wheel, so attitude, purpose, confidence, adaptability, support, network, storytelling and energy. There's seven bits to it, essentially, and they're all interconnected. And you can, you can develop each one, and as a result of that, you will be growing your resilience day to day. So in your learnings, it's, it's a case of one of the many reflective questions you can ask yourself is, in my recent activities as a leader or just a human being, goes. Life, it's like, how much have I been meeting my purpose, or how much have I been pulled away from my purpose? You know? And go, alright, so when I'm in my pause is in my re energizings And my reflections, I'm going to actually these, these suite of things that I was doing, these behaviors, or the things I got involved in, they were aligned to my purpose, and actually these weren't. Ah, okay, so how do I make sure that I do less of one and more of the other, and that will define how you wake up each to the each day, believing and feeling comfortable and confident that you can face into life's challenges.
Yes, very well said. So for listeners, I want to tell you today. Want to point out that we have talked about the dimensions of confidence, support, network, purpose. And then my last question for you, Russell, is about the heart of this. You say attitude is at the heart of this. So I'm gathering with intentionally raising our awareness around the things that you've mentioned today, and intentionally making shifts in our practices, in our behaviors and how much we're using our strengths and how often we're playing to our purpose. That will shift organically our attitude. But Russell, what if I just wake up and, like, I got a crappy attitude. I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed, and I know it, right? I'm someone who's aware, and I'm like, Oh, these are not empowering thoughts to start the day with anything for bad attitude in the moment.
So, you know, it's sometimes it's hard to do, but the the logical, practical answer, Amy, in that moment, is self compassion. Nice. Okay, so it's alright to have thoughts about today, really not feeling it. And I'm just, I'm in a met place, and I, you know, I don't really want to face into the world. So acknowledge, you know that that's what's happening, and let yourself know that that's okay. The artfulness in that is sometimes you need to lean into it and face into it, but then you do need to find a way to make sure that you're not wallowing, yeah, in it. Yeah. So step one, recognize it. And, you know, self compassion, it's okay to feel like this. Might just lean into it for a while and actually just, you know, be frustrated, you know, then it's a case of, How long am I going to hold on to this?
Yeah, I love that your immediate response was self compassion. Russell, I think that's so important. And the lean in and see if there's anything to learn. I mean, sometimes we wake up with these concerns or these thoughts or this feeling of meh, because, because there's something there, there might not be, there might not be. We're human beings. And, you know, it's complex, and there's a lot going on in here, but, yeah, lean in. Don't wallow. And maybe there's the other thing, re energize,
yeah, sorry, you mean to talk viewers getting enthusiastic there. The other thing that for listeners is, I'd really like to talk about the word optimism, just because this is part of the answer to your question as well. Because one of the things I'm concerned about is toxic positivity and toxic resilience. So I'm not coming from the space in the resilience world of like, we sort of say, okay, yeah, it's all a bit rubbish and terrible, and nothing's working. You've just got to be resilient and not coming from that space. I don't believe in that. Okay, so, but how we do get to feeling positive is thinking about this word optimism first. So optimism is grounded in reality. So just linking back to, if I waking up today with a really terrible attitude, it's like, well, that's the reality. Yeah, I acknowledge the reality that we're in, and I haven't put any judgment to it. So just require practice this so ground in reality, and these are the conversations that you can have as leaders, with your peers and your team. You've really got to have some great, artful conversations with that. What's the reality of our situation? If it's big and horrible and scary, then we need to go, okay, it is, and we acknowledge it. And there's no like, ostrich head in the sand type thing. We just go, we understand our reality. Then the next thing you do in all circumstances is you start to reflect, either individually or collectively, on, what are my strengths? What's my skills, what's my past experiences, what's my capabilities, what's my general levels of resilience, what's my current mindset and attitude, when this works well and go, Ah, okay, I'm starting to feel better. What's my purpose? What's my stone of life, what's my guiding light, you know? Ah, right. I have now got genuine feelings of hope, real feeling of heart, not pretend ones. And you know what? I am now feeling more positive about the situation. So how you get to positive is is to go, take the optimism approach, essentially,
which starts with a stop at reality. It
does take a real skill set. It, to have that conversation and guide it. You know, because there's an awful lot of empathy that is required in here. There's a decent, there's a massive amount of emotional intelligence that's required to be able to hold this conversation to go we need to talk about the reality where we are and we've we've got consensus that the reality is not good. So we need to hold that. We need to be compassionate about that. We need to face into it. We need to allow people to talk about their thoughts and their feelings and not let it get into an inappropriate, negative downward spiral. We have to be sure, comfortable, yeah, actually. And you know what? This is a difficult space, yeah, you know and acknowledge that, and then we need to gently start to guide it towards springing forward. You can't necessarily do that all in 110 minute conversation.
I'm hearing, you can get overly negative and you can get overly positive because we've all had the colleague or the leader where we're trying to say our concerns about what we're up against or whatever, and they're like waxing positive, and it'll be great. It'll be this. So I'm hearing have the real conversation about the reality, about the circumstances, about the project, about the upset customer, about whatever it is, and then, okay, we've got that out. Let's have the real conversation about who we are, how we can leverage our strengths, what we're committed to inside of this, right? Like, what's our purpose? Yeah, so on. I love that. That's a really wise place to end. Russell, thank you for your time today and for sharing your understanding and parts of your model around resilience that I know you have taken decades of research and study to build up absolutely
now You're welcome. I love chatting with you. Thank you for holding the conversation so well.
Thank you for listening to the Courage of a Leader podcast. If you'd like to further explore this episode's topic, please reach out to me through the courage of a leader website at www.courageofaleader.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please take the time to leave a review on iTunes that helps us expand our reach and get more people fully stepping into their leadership potential until next time, be bold and be brave, because you've got the Courage of a Leader.