EP057: A Hero’s Journey - SEO Content + 50Lb Weight Loss

Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast, featuring the latest strategies and techniques to drive traffic to your website and convert that traffic into clients. Now, here's the founder and CEO of 10. Golden Rules, Jay Berkowitz.

Well, good morning, good afternoon. Good evening, whatever time is podcast finds you. It's great to have you with us. I've got a great friend and content expert Joe Graisbery with us today for SEO content hero. Welcome, Joe.

Hey, Jay, it's great to be with you.

If you're listening to this on iTunes, Spotify, we'd love you for a rating if you feel like this content, and a five star rating would be very helpful for us. You know, Joe, let's get right into it. I'm going to start with something that doesn't have anything to do with content or marketing or, or law firms. Joe's had a tremendous weight loss and health kicked up his health habits over the last few months. You know, if you don't mind take two minutes. What how many pounds did you lose?

Overall, it's a little over 50 Since November, but

he was a tall, good looking guy, he didn't need to lose, I didn't think he needed to lose a lot of weight. But he now looks like a young catalog model or something. So oh, gosh, tell us a little bit about what you did to get those successes.

Absolutely. So first of all, I love talking about this, because I have had the opportunity to you know, have a couple people listen to my formula, and, you know, actually use it and, and have results. So So basically, for me, I had high blood pressure was on blood pressure medicine, I was only, you know, around 210 pounds. And you know, for a lot of people, they're able to genetically wear that weight well and, and feel good. But for me personally, I was actually 155 pounds, 160 pounds. And in high school, I noticed that for me, you know, as I go through, you know, I'm 46 now so. So as as I hit around the two hundreds, I started to not really feel so good. And turns out, that was something that I had to address. So really what it is that I did was just radically change my mood, I went to eating 11 and a half cups of vegetables plus salmon daily. And literally that's the you know, that's the the biggest part of my my formula is fasting in the beginning of the day, and then eating that big salad and then also, you know, the salmon.

That's fantastic. You don't work out any more or less than you did before

I actually barely work out because my diet is, you know, so many cruciferous vegetables. And just because it's so healthy, I don't feel bad if I don't work out. So but I will tell you that, you know, I work out probably like once every fifth day, I run, you know, just a casual jog about three quarters to one mile. And then I do maybe about 15 minutes of calisthenics. I guess that's the old version of what people call it. But by that I do push ups. I do set ups and I do curls. And that's it. So I keep it simple. And it's very easy to keep that discipline going. My trainer

used to call that the beach muscles. See abs and the pipes gone. Alright, well, thanks for sharing that. And there's a blog post somewhere, right? Maybe we'll put a link to it in the

I had a Facebook post, but I can I'll turn it into a block. Okay, great.

Well, thanks for sharing that. Joe and I met through an organization called seven figure agency. We're both really big fans of Josh Nelson and, and the community. I mean, Josh is amazing. Josh is great. The thing that I tell people is like, there's also a put 300 other agencies, and everybody's very committed to sharing and very good with sharing what they've learned in their knowledge. Many of us are niche agencies. So we focus on the legal niche, of course, and Joe focuses on creating content. So everybody is so great at sharing. I love seven figure agency. I haven't talked a lot about it. Do you want to tell people what your seven figure agency experience is like?

Oh, absolutely. Well, you know, to start with, I also love seven figure agency and one of the key parts of it is you know, you mentioned Josh Nelson. Often what many of us crave is a mentor figure or just a person in leadership, who you feel like you can trust with Josh. He not only talks the talk, but he's walked the walk I'm not 100% Sure, but maybe total with the the agency, you know, with his agency plumber, SEO, which does HVAC and plumbing, I think he's over 4 million with that maybe even 5 million in revenue, and has his systems down to a tee. And he has just transparently shared this information. And that makes it amazing. But he's created a workshop, you know, for people, and you can really get just so much value between his leadership, because he's a fantastic guy. And then also just his formula with his his workshops.

Yeah, I'll just explain that another way. Because I think it's worth explaining. Josh, his quick story. He had an agency that he actually went out of business, then he started selling, like Yellow Page, digital Yellow Page ads, or something like that. got very good at helping local businesses started another agency. And he hooked up with few plumbers. And he got really, really good at helping these guys get tons of plumbing contracts, to the point where I think he was selling so many toilets, that the toilet companies started seeing how can you guys are selling so many more toilets? And they, they would say, oh, it's our plumbing, SEO, agency, plumbing, SEO dotnet. Yes. And so Josh started getting referrals from all around the country, and developed a number of methods for niche advertising and marketing. And so niching is great. You know, I find that the law firms who niche do really, really well. And you know, Joe's found a niche, it's been great for him. And we found a niche, and it's been great for us. And so Josh developed this plumbing niche to the point where I think he now has 300 or 400 Plumbing clients. As you said, that agency does three or $4 million in recurring revenue, which is kind of the bottle in seven figure agency. And then seven figure agency is a separate company, he started to help other agencies, build seven figure agencies, and it's such a great rewarding community where so many young guys and gals who start a business, create a niche agency and and get to seven figures, we all have so much fun celebrating everybody else's successes to

absolutely, Jay and it's it's pretty amazing. The number of people who I've seen, I guess, for me, it's been either 2019 or 2020 that I've been with the seven figure agency and I have seen just dozens and dozens of people come through, you know, starting at five figures a month getting into the seven figure yearly revenue

starting at five figures a year, right, like a lot of people start out and they've got three or four or 5000 a month in recurring revenue. Yeah. And then the technically to be a seven figure agency, you need at 3000 some odd a month in recurring revenue to generate to be a million dollars a year and become a seven figure agency. Anyways, let's talk about what we want to talk about. Please tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into content and SEO. And, you know, tell us tell us a little bit about Joe. Absolutely.

So I have a pretty interesting story. You know, as a young man, I was I was, you know, a bit academic, but I loved the restaurant industry. And so I wanted to restaurant management, and did that for a long time until I had a family that I've really wanted to spend some time with. So I kind of took a leap of faith, literally, you know, not literally, but jumping off a cliff, basically, you know, going into marketing for restaurants, is ultimately what I did. And that quickly morphed into local marketing in 2012 2013, which quickly also morphed into my interest growing with SEO, as I started to provide SEO services. And I got I got trainings, I went to Tampa for a week and went to this workshop. And just I realized at that time that, you know, I just loved SEO. And, you know, it turned out that one of the key elements with SEO, that a lot of people struggle with is, you know, they have typically a bottleneck with producing quality content. And then also, you know, how it applies to SEO. That's like a basically a summary of my transition of how I got into things.

Great. So you know, let's give someone some real meat here. Here we are, and 2023 Maybe you're listening to this sometime and you know, whatever 27. But today, with Google algorithms, what are the important things to develop content to get ranked in Google? Because that's really what everyone wants to know.

Absolutely. I love this question. So. So to begin with, everyone needs to start with proper For keyword research, and marry that with the particular services that they, they provide. So really, it starts with creating a complete list of the services that you provide. And then finding all the associated keywords with that. Because ultimately, what I do personally, for SEO is I've really focused on the you know, how your content on the website applies to everything. So you know, having those two elements proper keyword research, you know, married with understanding your services, will allow you to find and create pages that will create those leads. So it's all about lead generating pages, and to get there, really, you know, your content is such a huge part of that.

And one of the things that, you know, I sometimes have to explain to clients like I'm going to use, I'll use a personal injury lawyer example today. But, you know, a lot of times, firms will be super focused on like Car Accident Lawyer, car, accident lawyer, Car Accident Lawyer, and then they're not getting any truck accidents, motorcycle accidents, nursing home abuse cases. So your first tip was great, you know, like, create a list of all the services, and then you're probably going to use either an expert or some of the tools to figure out the keyword phrases that people search relative to those terms. So it's not just the terms you think like, for Car Accident Lawyer, some people want to fight the insurance company or get their car fixed, or get their chiropractor bills paid for. So there's layers upon layers of keywords that would generate business for you, in addition to the the obvious ones, like, by the way, sometimes the most obvious one to us in whatever area of expertise we have, if you're an attorney, sometimes the attorneys want to focus on lawyer words. And even even even attorney like car accident attorney, you know, I think more of the populace would call them lawyers, how do you dig a little deeper into some of those terms that are a little less obvious?

Absolutely. So. So first of all, you You nailed it right there, because you really have to find what everyone is searching for, not what we might think. So the you know, the really the value in things is, is in the data. So you're going to use a couple of different tools are probably the more popular ones, you know, to really dive a little deeper into data might be a traps or SEM rush. But regardless, these tools all tend to do the same thing, which is identifying and helping you to identify and get a bigger list of what people are actually searching for. So you're using these tools, you're getting the the data from the tools, but you're also getting the data from your competitors as well. So not to get overly technical. But if you were to look in a specific region or a specific state, locate the most populous, you know, cities, and you know, those will give you the best data really, you know, competition really results in really getting that higher volume of data. So but the bottom line is to touch again, on on what you're saying there, Jay, you do want to make sure that you're looking at that data and finding exactly what people are searching for. And it is surprising sometimes what what you will find. But the another really important thing is to mention this term called topical authority. And what that means is that not only is it about finding the right terms, but it's also about finding the full spectrum of explaining, maybe, you know, elements that have to do with that specific service. So you want to make sure that you you have topical authority by fully explaining the associated information on the page. And then also with subtopics, that maybe even include other pages.

You know, you gave us some of the technical tools. Our company, our SEO team uses these tools all the time Joe and his team use these tools. S E M rush, sem rush, some people call it an h ref a H R E F. S is H refs, right? Yes, hrs comm. Or research tools. But you know, like, let's say, you're a young attorney starting out and you're a startup, and you just want to do some basic SEO. So the Google tool is pretty good. Like you could actually type in the Google search suggest. So you're actually in Google, you could put car accident attorney, and there's going to be a whole bunch of terms down below that, that Google's suggesting. That are different ways people would search for the same thing. Absolutely. And also people punch in that Search there's people also ask. And Google has a bunch of other questions that people ask around the same topic. So talk about some of the just basic SEO Tools people could use, if they're not hiring someone, like yourself for myself.

Absolutely. So with those specific items, you can take each one of those and apply those to SEO elements on the page, you know, specifically. So, for example, auto suggest will populate for you what it is that probably people were searching for. So that's the reason why it will suggest that because a larger volume of people are actually looking for that. So I would probably be aware of that. And then also, as you mentioned, people also ask, it's the same concept. But these are actually questions that people were asking associated with the keyword term, you know, that you're Googling. And it's interesting, because if you actually include that information on the page, you may actually rank better. And it's also, you know, one way to get the what's called the snippet, which is, you know, when you Google a term, there's one result at the top of the search results that really has like a feature list of information that it took from a specific website.

Google uses the term snippet, or rich snippet, and I put it in consumer language, it's like the best answer to a question and sometimes put it in a box, right at the very top of the search results just below the paid ads. Google is basically saying your website has the best answer for this question on the entire internet. And then just below that, it'll say people also ask and there'll be different variations of that question. So what we're saying is you can kind of reverse engineer Google type in the practice areas, or the keyword phrases we talked about earlier, car accident attorney, motorcycle accident lawyer, nursing home abuse attorney, how do I fight the insurance company, and then see all the variations that Google provides? In the people also asked, What are other variants of those words? And then essentially, you know, write a blog post or write a question and answer a frequently asked question, write some content that will go on your website to address those keyword phrases, basically, like you can't, I was using example earlier, like someone's super focused on Car Accident Lawyer, car accident attorney, auto wreck lawyer. And they wonder why they don't rank for truck accidents, motorcycle accidents, and nursing home abuse. It's because they haven't created pages, they haven't created blog posts, or they haven't created frequently asked questions, you got to get those words on your website, if you want to rank for those words, just exactly super simple, right?

You know, Jay, there is also something worth mentioning as well. So a lot of times you can, so the next stage of the process is okay, you've got the service pages, and you've got all the different variations, car accident attorney, truck accident attorney, things like that. Now, you know, in order to further advance your topical authority, or the way that Google sees your business, as the topical authority is to provide even more information about that that's helpful to users. And you can use some of these tools to see what people are searching for, and create, essentially subtopics associated with car accident attorney, truck, etc. So it's this supporting content, not to get too technical, but you know, internally linking from that with a keyword anchor to the specific service page, that's going to help boost the situation as well.

Yeah, that's a great point. And people don't understand links and backlinks. A lot of times, again, I have to explain it in very simple terms. So you just differentiated between External links we often call backlinks and internal links. So what you're saying was, let's use the example I used earlier, you've got a number of pages about car accident attorney, auto wreck lawyer. And then you also want to rank for truck accident attorney and motorcycle accident lawyer. So you link from the maybe homepage or a very successful page, on auto accidents to the truck accident page, and the motorcycle accident page. And those are internal links from one page on your website or the homepage, on your website to other pages on your website. A lot of people don't really understand the concept of backlinking, which is getting links from other sites to make you more important in the eyes of Google. How do you describe backlinks and what are some of the tips you have our own backlinking?

Absolutely. So with backlinks, what you're doing is you're establishing trust with Google. So if other people are creating links, so those are like hyperlinks on one person's website going to you Your website. And it's not a quantity game, it's more of a quality type of thing. You know, you want to have the best possible links, but also Yes, quality quantity does certainly help. The bottom line is if you're getting backlinks from an authoritative and trusted source, you know, a good, you know, website, maybe, you know, for attorneys Jay, I'm sure that you have a couple in mind, a couple big attorney type sites that you can mention right now real quick, maybe if you got a link from one of those to your site, it would really be super helpful,

the most straightforward is you got to have a link from your Bar Association, to your state bar association to your website. And I'd say like, I don't know, 19 times out of 20, that comes with the Bar Association description. But you know, sometimes people leave their old firm and do that startup we talked about, and they're still providing the link value to the old firm, or some people have multiple websites. So you got to make sure that those most valuable links your chamber of commerce, your Bar Association, and here's a great one that we put a lot of focus on getting a link from your law school. So as Joe was saying earlier, it's not a quantity game, it's a quality game. And Google sees getting links from high valued high important websites, as more valuable than getting links from like, your jogging blog that you set up to, you know, track your jobs with your buddies, right. So getting a link from a law.edu from your law school is super valuable. So you want to, if you give a donation to the Alumni Association every year, you want to turn that into some kind of sponsorship, and make sure you get a link from the law.edu or, or create a scholarship. And there's an application on your website that they send into the school. However, you you can arrange that with your law school, that's super valuable.

Absolutely in there, just real quick, there's another concept tied in with links when it applies to your content. So also, there are links that you can get from saying a really authoritative, topically associated source to this specific topic that you are writing about, or, you know, even if it's, say, your service page or something, car accident attorney, either page, you know, blog posts or search pages, if you get a link from a source that's ranking high bound in the search results for that specific topic. You know, that's that's one metric or kind of, you know, key factor that you can look at, you know, as well, you know, link from something or receive a link from something that's topically related. And that's certainly going to help as well.

So like a link from the Motorcycle Safety Association to your motorcycle accident page. That would be a little bit topical, like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's great. And, you know, just to highlight that one more time, I often explain to people that when Google, when the guys created Google is about 20 years ago, there was already lots of search engines, Ask Jeeves and Yahoo would, you know, there was like about 11 search engines that could search the entire Internet. But nobody had figured out a way to say, here's the best search result. And the page one of the search result was better than page 1000 of the searches on Google figured out. If other websites link to your website, there must be something of value on your website. So they started creating mathematical equations, to say that the websites that had more other websites linking to them, they would be more valuable. So like every, you know, use an example. We just did a great webinar, if you want to check it out on our YouTube channel. Brian Garrett is a small solo attorney in Oklahoma City. And his business is up 395%. He went from five to six cases a month that he was signing to sign 45 cases last month. And we told the story on on our webinar, in this podcast at an earlier podcast. And just using that example of Oklahoma City. Lots of other firms have Oklahoma City Car Accident Lawyer and car wreck attorney OKC. Lots of other firms had those terms before. But what's going to differentiate if you get on the first page of Google, you know, like we talked about earlier, gotta have the keywords on your website for the services you provide, as Joe described it, and then whoever has the most backlinks, and the most important and relevant backlinks is going to be the results that Google shows on the first page. So really, that's what that's why we talked about the importance of backlinks. And that's what why Google became the search engine that gave us better results, because they figured out a way to differ NCCIH, which website goes on the first page. And then when we're search engine, optimizing when we're trying to write, create, adapt our website to get on the first page of Google like we're optimizing means we're literally doing things on our site and on other websites to try and get Google's love and get on that first page. So the first thing is you got to put the words on your website. The second thing is you need other websites, relevant, important websites, to link to your content on your site. So, you know, we're doing the basic stuff really well here, Joe. But, you know, let's hope that some of our friends from seven figure agency or some of the top marketing law firms are listening to this today. Give me one super advanced tip, like, what's the cutting edge stuff that you don't tell anyone? I promise? Anyone? What avoid some of the best stuff you could share?

Well, let me let me start by saying that a concept that popped into my head, while you know, since we've been talking about all this is what is, you know, Google's algorithm is based on the Eat concept, expertise, experience, authoritativeness, trustworthiness, and it's the combination of all those things there that we've mentioned, that are part of this algorithm, but specifically, J, you know, something associated with eat. It's, it's relatively advanced. It's an advanced concept. But yeah, it's, it's funny, because the pieces of it are so simple. What tends to happen, and I, you know, I have a couple clients that I'm working with on this right now, but typically, if you don't include organizational and, you know, person type entities on your website, and have links and information on other websites, then you're gonna run into some problems. So why is this topic advanced? Well, it's, it's, you know, it's called entities. And it deals with people, places, things, organizations. And essentially, Google is grouping its data and associating. Let's say, for example, one entity is Jay Berkowitz. So you can immediately think, Okay, what items are tied to Jay Berkowitz? Well, 10 golden rules, maybe some of his other, you know, some of your other team members and people who are part of the organization, maybe your social media properties. So an advanced technique is to really dig deep into the entities for the purpose of eet, and include it on your website included on other websites, and use these links, you know, backlinks and connect this information together. You know, make sure Google can see, this is what Jay Berkowitz is all about, these are the associated entities, and they're all fully included on your website, etc. So an attorney, of course,

and this is a sophisticated topic. So you know, dumb it way down for me and the rest

of the listeners. Gotcha. So here, here's is exactly how I do that. So when you're looking at your law firm site, do you have an about page that fully explains your expertise, your experience, you know, what makes you the authority? And, you know, why does why would you want, you know, why would Google want to trust you? So you look at these things, and you include all the most important things associated with, say, your firm, what awards have they gotten? What things approve, you know, prove experience. And, I mean, I can, I could go on with this. But the bottom line is, you know, often people just simply don't start by building these specific items out. So not only should you have an about page with all that rich information, but you know, you should also include videos, you know, showing your experience, you should include separate pages for each attorney, and any associated associated social media and maybe even LinkedIn properties. And, I mean, it's just you go down the rabbit hole, and really there, you know, until you have really exhausted things, and you've got massively full lists, I don't think, you know, sometimes we all tend to not really do the best job that we can, you know,

so a lot of us have that half paragraph bio, on our bio page. And what you're seeing I think, is a lot of attorneys have the attorneys page and there's a short paragraph on each of them. You know, just basically what undergrad they went to and what law school they went to and how many kids and dogs they have. But you're saying like really build out a whole page, maybe even write case Studies and some of those landmark cases they participated in Absolutely. You know, write, even write paragraphs about the mock trials they won in college and, and you also build this expertise in other places, like you mentioned, the social media, like your probably your LinkedIn cane, a lot of expertise and articles, and links to your bio page on your website. And if you could get written up in the Bar Association, if you're on committees and things like that, turn that into example, expertise, content that is much more robust than just that. And if you have that same paragraph, in your bio everywhere, you know, LinkedIn and the Bar Association, what you're saying is really build that out to build your expertise.

Yeah, and it really, you know, it's so funny, it's so simple, yet, it takes so much thought. Because there are so many things that we do every day, maybe some accomplishments, maybe think people that we associate with, you know, you mentioned case studies, there are just so many things. And you, you have to get that stuff on your website, and you have to get it on other sites as well.

I've learned an interesting thing over the last few years, about how much content is content, we typically for the 10, golden rules, lawyer clients will either do four pieces of content a month, so it's one a week, or we'll do 10 pieces of content, there's probably no super logic to that, except it's more than four. And we're called 10. Golden Rules. So 10 is a nice, a nice business number that I've always used. And then we started doing 60 pieces of content for two different clients, for for what one of them because they had 60 locations. And so we were basically doing a piece for every client, another client because it was working for the first client who were doing 60. And they wanted to rank in a new area of service. And so the first client where we were for about 16 months now we've been doing 666, zero pieces of content. They went from 1000 keywords on the first page of Google. So you could search and find them for 1000 different keywords to over 7000 keywords, which is massive. It's like 400% improvement. You know, Joe mentioned something very important earlier, we should talk about this topic. Not only did the search results improve, the search traffic improved, the number of leads improved, and the number of cases that they were signing improved dramatically. So what do you think about massive content? First of all, you know, it's,

it's a, it's a funny topic for me, because since I am a quote unquote, content guy, I tried to, I tried to be really careful in saying, hey, you need content, because I sound like a salesman, but I will tell you that it was a very calculated move for me to become the content guy, because I know that the more content that you have, and the higher quality content that you have, it really almost just dramatically, you know, has that that kind of effect. So it's the most needed thing on a website, and, you know, to to really dial into all the things that we said, there's so much value in it, and you said it right there, you know, 60 pieces of content, you know, you went from 1000 to 7000 keywords, you know, there's, there's also so much to unpack in terms of dialing in the content, which we mentioned, you know, earlier on in the, in the podcasts as well. So, you know, hopefully people can kind of marry, you know, put all those multiple concepts together, because they are all needed together. And, Jay, that's why I would consider you an expert with us

and YouTube, but you know, contents, not content. And we touched on this, I'd love to hear your expertise on this topic, which is content is not just content. And you talked about the difference between content that, you know, just gets the rankings, but content that gets you leads, gets you signed cases, gets you opportunities in for the cases you want. Talk about the difference between the amateur and the advanced content that really gets the cases.

Absolutely. So I have a specific advanced concept that I associated with this. And it starts from a very simple Bytom where just simply you're answering the question, Google ranks, websites and things based on how complete and how correct are you answering the questions. So but you can take it steps further than that by you know, we talked about having the right content on your site, and that's precisely what I'm referring to, because there is a hierarchy of topical information associated with these answers and and these questions and the process is it's actually something associated with natural language processing and that To really get it down to its most simplest form that's involves question answer. So it's so simple question answer. But then you've got all these variations, when you consider other entities and, and, you know, the most important associations, that's when it starts to become something that you really have to consider all of these entities associated elements. So we're going back to that entity concept. And we're aligning that with natural language processing in a topical hierarchy, valuable information.

So you touched on one of my favorite topics, or two of them actually, answering questions and video. And seven years ago, at 10, golden rules, we invented this really, you know, great differentiator in our SEO strategy. And that is getting the lawyers on camera, answering questions, in particular, newer questions like, What happens if I get hit by an Uber? And five or six years ago, you would never have thought to answer that question, because lawyers weren't dealing with Uber accidents. But now, it's almost a daily occurrence. So we get the lawyers on video answering the questions. It's easy for them to create this great content, because they're answering questions they answer for their clients every day. And, and then we turn those into optimize YouTube videos, optimize blogs, with the video playing in the blog. And we also use those videos throughout their social media, Google Maps, etc. Yeah, I

just want to mention, yeah, there is so much value in that, Oh, my Lord, you know, just, man, just keep doing that. Because I cannot tell you if I was able to, you know, convince clients to, to do that often. Man, I mean, it would just make things so much easier. But that's just just, you know, I didn't want just want to make sure that I was noting to your audience, that is huge. And if you can manage to do that, Google will love it. And they'll love the leads that they get as a result, following through it takes work, of course, but

it takes a little work. But you know, one of the things we found is you just calendar eyes it. And we actually shoot every every quarter. So every three months, the lawyer knows we get our date on his or her calendar, and the videographer is going to show up with a nice lavalier mics, we got really good audio quality. And these are simple, straightforward. q&a questions. Now, let's shift gears a bit. Because obviously, the huge massive elephant in the room is artificial intelligence. And you have a content company. By the way, I Joe does work for 10 golden rules on the 10 Golden Rules brand. Because one of the things that we've often been guilty of is the shoemakers, children have holes in their shoes, working on 10, golden rules, SEO and marketing often comes last, we always do our clients stuff first. And at the end of the month, not too much gets done for 10 golden rules. So Joe has been good enough to help us with some of our, our marketing writing. And some of we just started working together on SEO that he's going to do for the 10 Golden Rules company, the elephant in the room was artificial intelligence chat TPT. And a lot of people now think they can just drop chat GPT content on their blog, I find it to be very vague and very glossy, it's not doing what we said you need to do you need to answer questions, your content needs to be deep. So you know, why don't you address that? What's what's the future of AI?

Absolutely. So to start with, you know, when it comes to AI, I like to have a positive perspective of it. But I also like to have a careful perspective, you know, with the way that I handle it. So, for example, with legal matters, you have to be extremely careful, you know, I honestly wouldn't recommend using, like things like chat GPT for it because of the inaccuracies, you know, so that's, that's number one, you know, you did mention that things can be vague, etc. But you just, it's almost like playing Russian roulette. Okay. And with say, like maybe some milder service type industries that, that you don't have so much riding on the content baby a little bit. But for us, we still focus, you know, nearly 100% on, you know, using, you know, live writers, etc. But the bottom line is you need to have a niche expert, producing the content or reviewing the content. You know, that's the bottom line, but it is like a little like Russian roulette, you don't know what you're going to, you're going to press the button and what comes out. Sometimes it's a little easier just to have somebody who actually it's a lot easier to have someone who is, say a career professional niche expert in the legal field, who's been writing this stuff, who knows, you know, all the most important concepts associated with it.

Yeah. 10 golden rules we're using GPT In some of the other tools to develop concept ideas, one of the things that's valuable is like, you know, we talked about car accidents and truck accidents, motorcycle accidents. And for PII lawyer, we've probably hit these topics or times over the past few years when we're writing content for them. So, we might say, to Chet GPT, you know, give us 20 new topics, that would be valuable blog posts for consumers who were in a car accident, and the list of 17 on that list might have been covered. But they might give you three good ideas. And then we'll have we still use human expert copywriters, lawyer, copywriters as well. And it all of our content is proof by two people by the account manager and the SEO manager. I think that would be the piece I would recommend the most is like, it's a good thought starter, but then make sure humans, as Joe said, it's legal content lawyers are reading that content to approve it, and approve it.

Absolutely. And, you know, I like the fact that you mentioned, yes, you know, let's, let's also make sure we're utilizing these new tools that are available. Think about all the data points and ideas that you have access to now. So, you know, so that's certainly there's certainly good things and, you know, good ways to go about, you know, utilizing these tools.

So there's some sites that can check. If your copywriter wrote the content with Chad GPT, or AI, do you know what those tools are? Yeah.

So it's, here's an interesting situation that I'm dealing with. So these AI detection tools have gone full circle to where now you have to be careful which ones you're using, because some may indicate that you're using AI when you're actually not. But so for me personally, right now, there's, there's one specific free tool that comes to mind that's really good, in my opinion, at identifying if someone is using AI, and that's content at scale. So if you just Google content at scale with an AI detection tool, you'll be able to use that. And I've really liked that one. But there's one that I also use, but I use it with a little bit of, you know, you have to be a little bit of an expert, interpreting that it's called originality.ai. The difference is that if I, if I actually physically write something out of my mind, from my head to the paper, or to the computer, originality.ai is going to say, Okay, no, this is 100% of human. However, if I do research, and I start adding a data, and I use, not necessarily a template, but if I'm structuring the content a certain way it can fall asleep doing it. So I've taken things here for you, Jay, on, you know, from from one side of the spectrum to the next. So

that's awesome. So the AI content checkers are being fooled by AI. We're almost at time here. So there's a couple questions. I always like to ask, are there any new tools, software's toys technology you're using for personal productivity or just for fun?

Oh, that's a good question. I'm still slightly old school. But you know, one of the things that I love now is, you know, that utilizes AI is loom. This is a free video screen recording tool. Love looms. Yeah, yeah. And what's neat about it is it summarizes what it is, you talked about in the video, using that for training tools for your team, you know, you can easily see it, people are viewing it, that has really greatly increased our productivity with training and things of that nature.

Yeah, we record looms, sometimes I'll just record a short loom and send it to a prospect. You know, hey, I was just looking at your website. And the link here is broken, and your phone number disappears as I scroll down the page, and they can see what your screen sharing. And then you could show them how many seo keywords and maybe if they're falling off, and you can just click a button, and then it sends it to them. It's super easy for them to view it on any device. It's not like in the old days, you had to save the video and put it on Vimeo. And they had to go to Vimeo account to login, like the loons display right from your email. And we're also using it as you said, for training tools. Last question, before we wrap up, do you have any exciting projects or future endeavors you'd like to share? Oh, yeah,

well, for me personally, would you say for SEO content heroes,

you know, SEO content hero, let's give you the business plug.

Absolutely. So something we've been working on, on a deeper level is we've been we have this custom software that we've created for our dashboard. And it's really just for the purpose of the user experience. But now you can go on SEO content hero and order something called Content autopilot, which is essentially a topical program, you know, based on what it is that we have been talking about throughout our conversation here. And with this, we start with those main elements, building each and you know, building out your core, which includes all the service pages and lead generating pages, and then we build the supporting content. So I'm always really excited about expanding that program. And we've actually added a sub program to a called Local SEO autopilot as well. Sounds cool.

Well, Joe, this has been great. And where's the best places to find you personally, and professionally, obviously, SEO content hero.com.

You know, it's funny, I'm still a little old school. I like Facebook. And I enjoy keeping that open and using the messaging on there. But aside from that, I can be reached at Joe at SEO content. hero.com.

Awesome. Well, thanks so much for doing this. If you're listening to this, and you still hear, give us that five star rating. We really appreciate it and give us a shout out on Joe's social or my social. Tell us what you learned and share it with some friends. Thanks again, Joe.

Awesome, Jay. Thanks for having me. I really had a good time.

Thank you for listening to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast. Please send questions and comments to podcast at 10 Golden rules.com That is podcast at t e n Golden rules.com.