EP053: AI Unveiled: Advice from Allstar Artificial Intelligence Experts

Well, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Whatever time you're listening to this podcast, this is Jay Berkowitz and today we're going to be debriefing after our latest webinar. And as always, I've got Jenna and Ike with me. Jenna, introduce yourself.

Hi, everyone. I'm Jenna Ehrhardt. And I work with Jay at 10 golden rules. I'm a customer success manager, and I'm happy to be here.

Mr. Ike,

how you doing guys? Um, I work with ten golden rules and Jay Berkowitz. We are going crazy. You already know

awesome. Ike maybe want to get a little closer to the mic because it sounds like Jen and I are a little bit more enthusiastic. And we know you're you're the you're the energy guy here. So this, this month's webinar, we talked about artificial intelligence and Chad TPT. We had an all star panel. And it was super cool because we had our own avatars. And now I'm like, I'm like the Iron Man. But I've got a gold avatar for Jay Berkowitz. I thought that was really cool. And we had some awesome participants on the webinar as well. We had the founder of law droid, Tom Martin, we had Carolyn elephant, and amazing technical wizard who blew us all away, Dennis you. So today, we're going to just talk about this and in an audio format, so it works better on the audio podcast. But if you want to see the slides and the video, just go to the 10 Golden Rules YouTube channel. And you could watch the video with the slides and see the amazing demonstrations from our panelists. But without further ado, I'm gonna let Jenna and I get asked the questions. And we'll we'll talk a little bit about what we what we learned from our expert panel this week.

All right, ladies first,

first, I want to say if you guys have not seen the webinar on YouTube, it's amazing. The demonstrations are so good. I know this is an audio version, but definitely go check it out because the panel was amazing. But first day, I kind of wanted to ask for you to give us a little brief explanation of the kind of the background of AI.

Yeah, that's a great point. Because one of the things that I differentiated in my setup for the webinar, and I always explain to people when they're talking about chat GPT and AI, is artificial intelligence AI has been around for a long time. And there's, you know, I think there's over 13 companies that are already unicorns, meaning they have a billion dollar valuation as AI companies, and there's obviously 1000s more startups. And so artificial intelligence is really the umbrella. And underneath that umbrella are companies like law droid, and log geeks and others that we'll talk about today. And chat GPT. So chat GPT uses artificial intelligence. And it is an artificial intelligence engine. And so the first thing I like to differentiate is that there's tons and tons of artificial intelligence companies, and a lot of people have just been introduced to Chet GPT, since it was introduced in November of 2022. But there's this whole category of artificial intelligence and the tools for law firms. And frankly, there's tools in almost every category, you can do your taxes now, with a bot. And so there's tons of AI companies, and chat. TPT is one of them. That is amazing. And free, and has tons of consumer uses and tons of uses you can use in business and in law firms. Is that answers your question, Jenna

apps? Yeah, absolutely. I know, you keep mentioning this chat GPT. And I'm sure everyone knows what it is. But for those who don't, could you kind of explain it a little further?

Yes, so there's a company called Open AI. And they actually introduced an image drawing, you know, a picture drawing tool called dolly before they introduced Chad GPT. But the amazing thing about Chad GPT and why everybody's talking about it. And all the media and everybody you know, is when, you know when Facebook was first introduced, actually net when Netflix was first introduced, it took three and a half years for them to get a million users. Facebook took 10 months to get a million users, Chad TPT took five days to get a million users. Like we all saw it and we're like, oh my god, this thing's so amazing. You got to tell everybody and you got to you got to check this out. And so immediately, we started sharing it with our friends and co workers. So chat GPT exploded to consciousness because it just spread so quickly became so popular. And why are we all crazy about it? Well, it can do almost any of your tasks. You know, if you need to write a memo, it can it can write the memo fast, you know, read a draft for you like super fast. If you need to read a new HR manual, it can do it really quickly. And you know there There's a lot of simple legal tasks that it can do as well, you know, drafting demand letters, it can pull out things like the treatment codes and things like that, and write a bulleted demand letter. So there's, you know, a million applications for this thing. And, you know, it is rarely that, like, it's often wrong, but it's rarely bad. So you definitely have to prove it and check it when you ask it to write you a memo or write your demand letter. But with a little human touch, it gets it like 80% or 90%. Right. And whether it's writing an HR memo, like I said, or, or, you know, one, one example, I love to share as we were meeting with an attorney, and he was an expert, and he was a consultant to a lot of in house legal counsel. So he said, I want to do marketing, and I want to get more prospects, and I want to market to in house counsel. But I want to make sure that everything we do is within the bar regulations in our state. So I was talking to someone on my team, and we were trying to do the research to figure out the bar regulations for the state. And I said, you know, what, why don't we just throw this into chat GPT. So we said, you know, give us a list of all the things that you can do. And all the things you can't do to do advertising and marketing for a lawyer within this particular bar association. And within, you know, like 20 seconds, it types out the answer for you. And it gave us a bulleted list of all the things you can do. You know, you can do direct mail, and you can have a website, and you can have a blog, and the things you can't do, like you can't claim to be the best in that state. And there was a few other things that you couldn't do in your advertising and marketing. And I also asked it to tell a short, funny legal joke. And so it said, why did the lawyer cross the road?

Why,

Ike, do you know,

now I'm thinking

to get to the bar on the other side. So it actually told a joke that incorporated the Bar Association, and had a double entendre meaning that this thing is a really powerful tool. So if you haven't checked it out, you want to check it out. And if you've only used it a little bit, I would suggest that you start refining your prompts. And what that means is, when you go in and you do a query, unlike a Google search query, you want to give it additional data points. So you can like I said, you know, write a bulleted list, and include a joke. Or you could tell it things like, you know, write it in, in the as if it was written by the Supreme Court of the United States, or you could say, summarize the three most recent Supreme Court rulings, as if it was a nursery rhyme. Or, you know, summarize the I had a dream speech, but write it as if it was a song written by Jay Z. And literally, all of those possibilities will be done in like 20 or 30 seconds. It's amazingly capable. And when you refine the prompts, and you give it direction, like write it in a firm tone, write it in an understanding tone, and it will, it will get the tone. And again, it's not going to be perfect, but it's going to be 80 or 90%. Right, almost every time.

Well, now it's time for the real questions that lawyers are really curious about, which is when will AI outperform real lawyers in Wuhan?

2018. I had an example. I had an example in the presentation of a software called law geeks. And this was one of those aha moments, you know, or paradigm shifting moments. And they put out a press release. They had 20 Top US lawyers, look at non disclosure agreements. And the software law geeks look at the same non disclosure agreements to find errors in the agreements. Am I gonna get these numbers? Exactly right. But the law geek software was 94% accurate. And the lawyers were 85% accurate. The lawyers took 92 minutes to complete this, this analysis. Guess how long it took law geeks? seconds, 26 seconds. So, you know, my, one of the philosophical questions that I've been talking about with some of the other, you know, AI geeks and some of my friends, you know, the, the it friends and stuff that in a mastermind with, you know, it's philosophically, we, we I definitely see that these tools, replacing a lot of the jobs that are currently done by junior lawyers, and junior paralegals. And at least for the short term, there's going to be lots of jobs for humans to still oversee this work for humans to make the prompts but we We all know that AGI is coming, which is artificial general intelligence, which is, you know, basically, the AI will have the ability to think and reason. And it'd be pretty darn close to, to human functionality. So, you know, there's definitely a time coming in three years, five years, 10 years, where a lot of jobs are going to be replaced. But, you know, there's an interesting take. And I think I included this in my presentation, that one of the industry leaders made a presentation. And he said, in his presentation, he had a big slide, and it said, AI will replace lawyers, dot, dot, dot, who do not embrace artificial intelligence in their jobs. So the I think, the argument, the best argument is that, you know, you want to start understanding these things. And whether you're a lawyer or an accountant or a digital marketing agency, you better start taking advantage of these tools, because they definitely make our job easier. 10 golden rules, they make your job easier if you're an attorney, or an accountant, or, you know, whatever you do. And if you can streamline work that used to take four hours, down to 20 minutes, you know, obviously, you know, your competitors not going to be billing for those hours. So if you're still billing for hours to do things, the old fashioned manual way, you definitely have to be streamlining or eventually you're going to be putting yourself out of work. So I think that's a great question. I think there's a couple of takes on that. And then the other consideration is like Mihai Ella, who works on our 10, golden rules team, just got into law school. So yay, me, hi, Ella. And, you know, I was explaining to her that, you know, you want to probably figure out what, you know, get really embrace these tools. And there's definitely a great opportunity for a young lawyer coming out of law school, in the next two or three years. If you're, if you're an AI expert, and you're really great at creating the first documents with AI, and you're like the fastest worker in your class. But I definitely wouldn't be the the attorney graduating in three years, who's the best at reading law books and finding, you know, the dissertations and writing them out and typing them out again, because, you know, your classmates are gonna blow you away, and you're not, you're not going to get the job. But, you know, if you're the AI wizard, you know, most of the firms are going to probably be like, oh, we need to get on top of AI. So I think that's an opportunity for young lawyers for for young accountants and, and frankly, young people coming out of school in the next three to five years in every in every type of work.

We do.

Exactly. So I know we've, and you're in the webinar, when we had that all star rock star panel. Besides Chad TPT, we talked a little bit about a few other AI tools that you guys really enjoyed using. Could you let us know what a few of those are? Yeah, well,

I mean, definitely, the demonstration of law droid was awesome. From Tom. And, you know, it primarily does two things right now. So you can build your own Chatbot. So let it's like a law version of chat GPT. And then the law droid software, has read and index and understood 7 million case files from heart that Harvard has posted of 7 million current US legal case files. So when it writes a demand letter, it drafts a document for you. It's based on the current 7 million case file database from Harvard. So log droid is definitely one of the cool ones. I mentioned log geeks earlier. And then, you know, if I, some of the more general tools, like jasper.ai, is a copywriting tool, and I've been playing around with a tool called Crystal nose, that's very good. It can create a DISC profile, like a personality index for someone you're gonna have a meeting with. And so some of the lawyers have been using that, to understand their customers, before they have meetings and understand the competitive lawyers if they have a case against another lawyer. Also, one of the interesting things is the insurance companies are all using artificial intelligence now. So the way you present your case, you've got to be very precise in presenting the right injury codes and the right treatment codes, because they're just going to drop those in the AI. And their their proposal is going to, you know, speaking generally about an injury case, but the proposal is going to come back from the AI not really the adjusters not really doing a lot of hands on work anymore. So the way you structure those in the research you do in advance is super powerful. And then another great example, a lawyer's using a software called pin Mize. And this one's really, really kind of creepy. But what what they were able to do was upload pictures, their client was injured in an accident. And they had a, they had only a couple pictures of the gentleman who hid their client. And they had his mugshot, and they had his driver's license photo. And they uploaded that into PMIs. And it was able to find pictures of this gentleman at a bar right before the accident. Now, his lawyer had taken down all of his social media, but the the his friends had posted social media at that bar, and he was in those pictures. So it's very creepy, but it's very effective for that type of law. So, again, there's dozens and dozens of products out there. And you just got to do a little bit of research. And, you know, start with Chad TPT if you haven't gotten started, and then maybe step up to LOD right and log geeks and, and check out some of these other tools. It's really a new a new world. You know, the other day someone asked me, like, you know, what, what is this? How significant is this? And I think, you know, it's really as significant as all the major inventions of mankind, it's definitely as significant or almost as significant as the internet itself. You know, it's like the invention of electricity or the invention of the wheel, you know, mankind is going to take huge steps forward in our ability to do things and do things quickly. So you really don't want to get left behind on this one.

And re agreed. Now, you know, back with the tough questions. So as we're learning, AI can develop a consciousness, what if the actions of AI end up infringing on humans? How would lawyers litigate against some kind of evil AI? Well,

I mean, definitely, that's, I mean, that's, that is the tough question. And I think, everybody from Sam Altman, the founder of open AI, in charge, GPT, and Elon Musk, who was originally one of Altman's partners, he actually stepped away when open AI was originally designed to be, you know, kind of like for for human good, and to look out for the potential risks of AI. And when they shifted to become, you know, a for profit organization, Elon, stepped off the board. And both Elon, and recently, Sam Altman, have been calling for government regulation. So that there's some type of oversight, either from the American governor or from, you know, Coalition of international governments, because these things definitely have a huge risk. And, you know, we've all seen the movies, whether it's the matrix or, you know, several other movies where the computer takes over and starts making decisions based on its briefing, and sometimes its decision is, you know, the briefing, the briefing means that humans are getting in the way and they should eliminate the humans. Yeah.

So I don't know what we're gonna do about that. I don't know if Louie answered the question.

I think I answered the question that, you know, in the way I talked about it in my presentations, look, the risk is real. The risk is significant. Some of the smartest people, you know, the Bill Gates's in the Elon Musk's, and that Sam Altman's are calling for government regulation. So I think if people who know the products that that well are saying that this is a risk, and then there's got to be specific rules and international regulations, you know, the risk is real, and it's got to be done. Okay.

Speaking of risks, is there any concern about copyright infringement when using AI and copy from Ai?

No, that's a great question. And we didn't talk about Carolyn yet. But Carolyn elephant did a great presentation on, you know, some of the tools of AI and she's an attorney. And she's also teaching a course on how to use AI for law firms. So definitely check the links. Will Janet's make sure we put the links in this podcast to you know, Jen, and Tom and Dennis. And so you can take a course on how to use AI and Chad GPT for law firm from Carolyn. She talked about. She addressed specifically the copyright risks. And you know, the high level answer is the chat GPT is has read the Internet up to 2021 By the way, it's not. It's not up to date right now. So a lot of the answers it gives you is that my dataset only goes up to the fall of 2021. But it does compile a number of sources, it doesn't copy any one source. So in theory, you should be, it shouldn't be a copyright violation. But there's, I think she also told us that there has been a court ruling that you're not able to copyright AI copy. So anything produced by a machine, you can't copyright, so that that's the latest information that I have, that we got from Carolyn on the on the webinar. Awesome. Good to know.

So if somebody made like an AI logo, they couldn't copyright their logo?

Yeah, again, I would say it's a little bit like we talked about earlier on where it gets things, things get at 80%. Right. So, you know, I would get used AI to create ideas for logos, and then maybe have a designer, finish it, format it, pick the colors and add the trademark from there. You

know, we talked about our first two speakers, were all star panel, do you want to give a little explanation on Dennis, you while he talked about maybe some of his wizard hacks?

Yeah. So Dennis, you has been my friend, we've been speaking on stages together for probably 15 years. And he was originally a search engineer at Yahoo. So he was actually building the Yahoo search engine. So he understands this stuff better than anyone I could possibly know. And he's also become one of the world's leading experts on things like Facebook ads and tick tock ads. And so Dennis and I have been doing some work on figuring out GPT and AI as well. So he had a number of interesting tools that he talked about. One is you can record a video and change the words with a tool called pitch.com. And he was also saying that, like, you shouldn't create synthetic media. So it's okay to record the record a video and then like, have a tool, an AI tool, change the words, you know, don't just write a script, and have have the tool, you know, write the script and speak the words for you, because you can record yourself and then these tools will put out videos for you. But if it's completely synthetic, he said, if it comes from nothing, that becomes too generic. The other thing he shared is that, and this is more of like an a search thing than an AI thing. But he said, you know, people are going to Google you. And you got to make sure you claim your knowledge knowledge panel. So your knowledge if you're, you know, if you're an author, and you know, obviously everybody in business today should be authoring some content, putting out some SEO content, putting some content on LinkedIn in the social media, putting some video out. And then you should be an expert and have a knowledge panel. So I've actually been, he pointed out that the J. Berkowitz knowledge panel is not claimed, so I don't own it. And I've been actually having trouble with Google. Because my, my birth certificate says my name is James. But everywhere I go, I'm Jay Berkowitz. So it's been tricky to actually claim the knowledge panel, because my I don't have government ID with my name Jay on it. So yeah, I think that's a headline. But, you know, Dennis goes super quick. And he went through a bunch of examples. So if you if you get to about the 40 minute mark, in the video, and you want to see Genesis stuff, I'd highly recommend it.

Yes, that was awesome. ike do you have any other questions.

No, I'm just vibing now.

Perfect. Jay, was there anything else from the webinar you wanted to touch on?

No, I think that's it. I mean, you know, I would definitely stay tuned, we're gonna we're gonna going to have some awesome interviews, coming up with a couple of attorneys who are actually using some of these AI tools. And so we're going to try and share their best practices for how to use it in your practices. I met another company that's in insurance, and they've got an AI tool that, you the, or they're in immigration. And so when the foreign national is applying for US immigration, they need a whole bunch of documents. And so they now have an AI tool that they can upload the documents. The tool reads the documents, it makes sure that like the transcripts are accurate and the resumes are accurate. And it knows like if it's the right University and how good a university it was. It's an amazing tool. And we'll be investigating products like that and interviewing a number of experts on how to use AI in a bunch of different practice areas over the next several months. That's awesome. So stay tuned with more. More great yeah. stuff coming to a podcast near you.

I don't know if you heard that. But Darn, listen the year you're missing out. Don't get don't get left in the dust. Keep it up, Jay.

Well, thanks, Jenna. Thanks like, you guys make this a lot more fun. And we'll see you next time on The 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast.