139: Hona Co-Founder Manny Griffiths on Creating Happy Clients for Law Firms with Technology and Automation

So you used a phrase I wrote down here, automate the redundant. And you talked about things explaining over and over, what is an insurance adjuster? What is the demand letter? So explain how the product does that for them, right? So

it's really customizable to the case management software, or with the case management software. So when a law firm gets Hona, they set up triggers in their case management that will send out these updates at certain points in the case and so the customer will get a text message on their phone, and they click a link and it will open up Hona. And the interface is is really customizable. So they can put in their own text, their own videos, their own FAQs. So when the client is in the application, they're watching video content of what's happening, and that the law firm sets that all up themselves. So that's essentially how it works.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever time this podcast finds you. Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of Internet Marketing for Law Firms. Podcast. We have a great guest today, before we get going, and I ask you one small quick favor. If you're a regular listener, or you've listened a few times and you like the show, do us a HUGE favor and share it with someone else who could use some of the stuff that we cover. We're interviewing some great lawyer marketing technologists, some great technologists. We have one today. We're talking about growth strategies for law firms. We're going to share a bunch of great content from our recent conference called tgr, live growth strategies for law firms. So if there's another attorney or another person in the legal sphere, please do us a favor and share it forward the show. I always forward shows from iTunes. It works really, really easily. Or if you're a YouTuber, just copy and paste the link or click the share button. And of course, we love five star reviews and comments on the various pod platforms. My commercial is done, and I'm really happy to introduce Manny Griffiths. He's the co founder and CEO of Hona, and Hona super cool, and a bunch of our clients are really loving it, so I want to learn more about it today, Manny, welcome to the 10 golden rules of internet marketing for law firms. Podcast. Thanks

for having me, Jay, excited to be here, sad to chair. Yeah, we're going

to cover some important stuff, like hockey, because Manny's a new hockey fan. I'm an old hockey fan and but more importantly, we're going to talk about this great technology product called Hona that can really help law firms. First, I'd love to hear about our guests journey. So tell us a little bit about how you got started in life and business, and what brought you to founding a technology company for law firms.

Yeah, well, I started off wanting to go to law school, and I was in my last semester of my undergrad degree at BYU, and I was taking some pre law classes, and a buddy of mine said, Hey, since you want to go to law school, why don't you come work for this legal tech company that I work for just locally, work part time. So I started working there as a case management company that's here out of Utah, and started working there, and then I just fell in love with the tech piece. And I was like, I love law I love tech. So I worked there for a number of years, four or five years, and saw a need in the market and jumped ship and started Hona. So it actually started with wanting to go to law school myself.

Oh, that's really cool. Tell us a little bit about Hona. How does it work? Who's it for?

Yeah. So this question, it's funny, our company has just grown and expanded so much over the years, but Hona is like our core product is a client engagement tool, and what that means is it is the sole communication application that a lawyer communicates with their clients during the case. So updates two way texting forms that are being filled out. So we kind of liken it to the Domino's Pizza tracker. And you've heard this probably with other but for law firms, so everything communication during the case goes through Hona, so

this is after a client signed, then the attorney asks the customer like, hey, create a do they have to create an ID on Hona,

yeah. So the the law firm would initiate it. It just it connects to their case management software. When they start a new case, the client will get a text and it says, Hey, download our app or text us. Here you can use either or. And they start using this application so they can go in the app and see their status and see the team they're working with. And it's interesting you ask about when it like we actually sell this for pre case as well. So if you're doing intake, you could use our portal to help sign people up as well, which is really cool, because. Because I think a lot of a lot of law firms are feeling like they want to share their brand and who they are. So we use Hona during the intake process, and they can see who they're working with and how to sign up and what it looks like during the case. So you can use it pre case and during case. Oh,

that's interesting. And it's, is it branded Hona, or it's branded for the law firm? It's

all white labeled for the law firm, so it's got their logo up there, and they get uses their color scheme, so it looks like coming right from the firm. So that's probably

pretty compelling, especially for younger folks who like technology and get it if they see that the firm has technology, that should be a selling point, right? Totally

well, and it's interesting. We've seen kind of these waves of like, how the intake market is super competitive. And I think 20 years ago, when texting got involved, all the law firms wanted to text to help sign up their leads. And then, like, when e signatures came out, that was the second wave. And I was like, we have to do e signature so that we could sign up. I think we're in the third wave now, Jay where it's like, you need something else, something more compelling. So a lot of firms use Hona to be the most compelling intake device.

And what's the proposition? Like, do the does the intake team actually sell it? Hey, let me text you over our app and you can get all kinds of information about our firm.

Yeah, because a lot of leads are looking at three different options. And so the intake personnel, if they haven't signed them up already, they say, Hey, let me send you access to our Hona portal, so you know our client portal, and you can learn about recent results we've gotten for our cases, and you can meet the team members. You've got video content of the managing partner talking about him and his family. We'll show you the case process. So it's really it just is a huge differentiator. If they can, if they're talking to three or four firms, and they've got this portal where they feel like they're getting to know their lawyer and their staff. It's a big, big differentiator for that firm.

And all practice areas are you guys honed in on personal injury?

Yeah, all practice we found that it works. We started in personal injury, so we have a huge foothold there. But any practice area that the case is longer than a week and is kind of more standardized. It's not like a really unique thing for each case. So pi, immigration, criminal defense, family law, wills, estates and trusts, all these practice areas work really, really well.

Fantastic. What's one thing everybody should know about, Hona?

I think the biggest thing is, I think on the intake front, it really is a differentiator. It makes you the most competitive piece in the market. I think if you're using this during the case, which is what most of our clients do. We have 700 firms that use us, and it really helps you automate the redundant conversations, because I think so many firms spend too much time explaining what an insurance adjuster is and what they're doing, what a demand letter is, and who they're sending it to, and so it just is really cutting out wasted time that could be used on doing revenue generating activities.

I love it. One of the things I've often heard in your category is that the biggest complaint that people have, the biggest number one bar complaint, is my lawyer is not getting back to me, and yeah, we hear it all the time, because we obviously record calls in functioning as the marketing agency, and Google records every local service at every Google screen is recorded. So even if we don't have a call tracking software, which we highly recommend that, we record the calls, but more importantly, it's tracking where the leads come from. So we listen to calls all the time, and we give the firms feedback on how they're doing on their intake. But one of the things we hear over and over and over with particularly with the firms that don't have ona or one of your competitors, is that people are calling and they're frustrated. My attorney has gotten back to me. What's the status of my case? Did you guys get a copy of my MRI and those kinds of questions, over and over and over. So if the number one bar complaint is my attorney's not getting back to me, How does Hona solve that problem?

Yeah, so I love this. One of the features of our tool is what we call the drip notifications, and when you're in a stage of the case, you can create these unique drip text messages or notifications to go out. And it's feels like it's coming straight from the lawyer, but it's, Hey, we're still working hard on things. No updates, but we'll be in touch soon. So they're constantly. Me being texted, and the client loves this, because they're like, anxious about what's happening. It's a really stressful time of their life, and so they're just being fed constant communication, and the lawyer doesn't have to do anything. Hona does it all, and it just makes for a much better client experience. Yeah,

I unfortunately had a couple car accidents got rear ended two times. I always tell the story, because I got rear ended the first time. Went to the chiropractor, and they're like, car accident. We love car accidents. And they were so excited. And they passed me the car to the lawyer, and they gave me all these creams and back rubs and seats for my car and my back. They just started lavishing me with free stuff that they were going to be the attorney was going to be paying for. Then I had the second accident years later, and I couldn't, I always tell the story, because I couldn't remember the guy's name. And it was only five years later that he didn't send me a Christmas card, a Jewish a Hanukkah card, a birthday card. I wasn't following him on any of his socials. He didn't send e newsletter, a printed newsletter. So I was talking about the importance of that, not only for the relatively unique occurrence of a second injury, but yeah, just for referrals. I mean, you got to stay top of mind. Totally. It's

funny you say that Jay, because so the reason why I started this, because my wife was rear ended. So we went through this. We went through a personal injury lawsuit, and I actually love the attorney that we worked with, but it did feel like we weren't communicated with enough, and we weren't didn't understand what was happening. And I haven't been in two accidents like you, but I do look at my health insurance provider and the difference, and it's a different service, but he's constantly gifts and text messages and newsletters, and he'll he wants to play golf with me, and it's just different. And so like looking at those two types of experiences made me want to do this. So it's interesting. Yeah,

so the so then the second part of the story, so I hired the second guy, and I hired a guy from my networking group, because now we work with a lot of lawyers, but yeah, whatever it was, 1213, years ago, we only had a couple lawyers, and they weren't pi and they weren't local. So the second time I hired the PI guy from my networking group, so I talked to one of my clients, and he said it would be a conflict for him to take my case, because he's also working with me. So I hired this guy, and then the guy turned out to be really lazy, and I would always be asking him, like, what's the status of my case? And we I'd see him every week in our networking group, and he'd, oh, you know, I'll ask the assistant. And frankly, he didn't show up hardly at all because he was lazy. I should have seen him every week. I didn't see him every see him every week. So that was my personal example. I would get an MRI, and I would never know, like, did the MRI get to the doctor? Did the doctor review the MRI? Was there a position on the MRI? So just kind of fill in the blanks and all those kinds of things.

Absolutely, yeah, fill in the blanks. It's exactly like that's one of the really popular features of our pool that, at least with personal injury firms, because we're talking about that, is we can set up a recurring form during the treatment process that asks questions like, Hey, where's your pain this week? Hey, did you see any doctors this week? And it's customizable, so the firm can set it up however they want, but getting things like, Hey, did you miss anything because of your injury? Like, did you miss your aunt's birthday party because you're in pain from your back? Those little nuggets when they're building the case and writing the demand letter are massive, and so we've had firms say they're averaging 1000s more on their settlements because they have more information that's just communicating and pulling information. It doesn't have to just be communication to the client. It can be asking them for things. Makes it feel like you're really involved. And so that works really well. So

you used a phrase I wrote down here, automate the redundant and you talked about things explaining over and over, what is an insurance adjuster, what is a demand letter? So explain how the product does that for them, right?

So it's really customizable to the case management software, or with the case management software. So when a law firm gets Hona, they set up triggers in their case management that will send out these updates at certain points in the case. And so the customer will get a text message on their phone, and they click a link and it will open up Hona. And the interface is really customizable, so they can put in their own text, their own videos, their own FAQs. So when the client is in the application, they're watching video content of what's happening, and that the law firm sets that all up themselves. So that's essentially how it works. Now

this is a trick question. Question. I didn't, we didn't prep this in advance, but it's easy for you to demo the product. Can you do a screen share for the folks on video? Or is that is it on a

Yeah, let's do it. I love it. It is on a cell phone, but let me see,

but it has a desktop app too. Uh huh. And I promise this. This is completely unfair to Manny, because I didn't think of this in advance. Oh, you're good. We're putting him on the spot here. But hey, it's his product, so let's do it. So okay,

so I'm going to share what this is like from the client's perspective. By

the way, if you're listening, if you're listening on iTunes or Spotify or something. All of these shows are on our YouTube channel, the 10 golden rules YouTube channel. So if you just Google t e n golden rules on YouTube, you can find these. And also our monthly webinars are on the YouTube channel as well.

Sweet. I love it. Okay, so one thing that's kind of cool is so we have an app, but you can also just do this via text message, which is actually, by and large, how most of the clients of law firms use this. So they'll get a text and they'll say, you can customize this text to say whatever you want. So hey, you've got an update on your case. They click this link and it takes them right into our application. But here's an example. Hey, you're in phase three. Here is your a description of what's happening. Here's a video of the attorney telling you what's happening. FAQs,

you can look at he's explaining phase three. He's not explaining each individual case

Exactly, yep, and they can send individualized videos and messages, right text, but this is just a more high level explanation. That's great. It's going to host all their calendar events. It's going to show the team that they're working with,

what calendar events or meetings with, the attorneys going to the doctor, stuff like that,

exactly? Depositions. That's been pretty popular recently, because for the dentist, you get five text messages to remind you about your appointment. That's what we have going on here. It's like three hours until your deposition. Here's a video to watch to prep whatever you want to do to set it up.

Yeah, that's great. All right, I love it. That's probably enough, considering this is a podcast. It's mostly audio, but yeah, that's great. What's one tip for a law firm about how to improve customer service?

Yeah, how to improve customer service? I would say, honestly, I know we've talked a lot about this, but even if you're not using Hona, I think video content is massive. Here's a couple reasons why, I think. One, if you tell someone something about their case, they forget it. They've got so much going on with their life. They've never been through this before. So if they can watch a video multiple times, then they're going to remember it, and they're going to feel happy about it. I think. Two, I think is great for the attorney, because they're not spending as much time explaining the same things over and over. I think we're in a day where short form video is rules. YouTube shorts, tick tocks, Instagram reels, if you can do 30 seconds filming yourself like this, people will love it. They eat this kind of content up all day. So if they're looking at you explaining what's happening with their case, they will love it. So I would just say, use video everywhere you can. It's free, it's easy, even if you're not using Hona, send them a text with a video. Do something because it saves so much time, and people love it.

So even for ourselves, like we could say, Hey, thanks for signing the agreement. The next step is you're going to meet with the team. They're going to access, make sure they have access to everything from the passwords you supply little quick videos are super powerful. I love that.

Yeah, totally for you. Forever. Yes, I love it anywhere you can use it. I think it's the best thing

that's awesome. And what's an advanced tip like someone who's using Hona and they're crushing it and they're their customers are happier, their lawyers are happier, their paralegals are in heaven. What's some advanced things they can do to go to the next level?

Can I say video, 2.0 Have you ever heard of yay,

yeah, the same answer is, video, no, I'm just kidding. Go ahead. So

this is advanced video I'm obsessed with. Do you use? Have you heard of loom? Then? No, okay, so there's a tool online called loom and. L, o, o, M, and you click a little button that's a Chrome extension, and it instantly records you, and you can copy a link really easily. I use it for delegation of tasks internally. And I think if you film this type of video, like for a message. People eat it up. So I would, I might even show you. Can I show you really quick? Yeah, sure, let's, let's pop it up, because I

haven't done a lot of sharing in the past, but like, Let's go for it. Yeah, okay. By the way, I'm familiar with loom. I thought you said loom bin or something, so, oh, sorry, okay, yeah. But looms great short videos, and Manny's gonna demo one for us. Yeah.

So this is what I do to delegate tasks internally. And I think lawyers can use this to communicate with clients too. So you just have this little chrome extension up here, and you just hit start recording, and you can share your screen, or you don't have to. Let's just do it for this, but it gives me a little 321, countdown. I record myself. See, it's recording me right here. Oh, I guess I didn't hit start. You get the idea. And all you have to do is click a link and send it. And I just think it's the best thing keep the next level. Yeah, it's next level. So that's great.

So you and I are in a unique situation where we both have an eye into many law firms, and I often I talk about this in my planning webinar, like I have an example of two different firms. One gets 5000 visitors to their site. The other gets 5000 visitors to their site. One signs 80 clients a month. One signs 20 clients a month. And there's a lot of different factors, like one has 705 star reviews. One has 147 3.4 star reviews. So a lot of those calls are coming from happy customers, happy referrals, happy partners and stuff like that. We both have this opportunity to look in through the back door and see how firms operate. But what's one business strategy or recommendation you would have for law firms with your unique consultants hat that you have a chance to see inside out?

Yeah, yeah. Well, can I talk about a new product of ours? Yeah, sure. It's actually regarding, and we could talk about this later, too, Jay, but I want to talk about signing up clients. So you just gave the perfect example, and you didn't do this on purpose, but I mean, what's the difference between a firm that has 5000 site visitors that signs up 80 and signs up 20? I don't know that's like your business. You're so good at that. We have a tool that goes on websites. It's a website chat that opens up with video. And I know I keep talking about video, but it's a website chat that opens up on a Law Firm's website, and it can pull people in and get them to sign up a little bit better than just like a normal website chat bot. And that is a super compelling thing, because I think, I think what happens is most firms, if they want to grow, they think they need to go buy another billboard or run more Google ads or spend more money on marketing when they just need to capitalize on what they have. And that's like what your business is. And I love that. And I think this product is doing exactly that is. It's capturing people's attention and pulling them in. And I think just like find optimizing, optimizing what you have, as far as marketing and converting those leads. And like, I love your secret shopper, where you're calling firms your training staff, just optimize what you have. And I think, find every way you can to not spend any more money, but to not waste the leads that you're getting.

Yeah, we're big fans of chat. We recommend it to every firm, because my personal theory is there's a certain percentage of people who are never going to fill out the form on your website, right? There's zero chance, like, I always use the example of someone who's aunt got in a car accident, and she's doing research for her aunt, and there's zero chance that she's going to fill out the form, zero chance she just doesn't want the spam, but she doesn't even want to talk to the firm. By the same token, she's never going to pick up the phone, because it's not her case. She's just doing research, and she's given a short list to her mom and her aunt who was in the accident, and chats in that window where a lot of people will in that instance, she might do a chat because she might have a few questions, where are you guys located? How long does it take? How much money can my aunt get, or whatever her questions are, she can ask those by chat and remain anonymous. In your experience, is that where chat plays so well for you guys?

Yeah. Yeah, I think, Well, it's interesting. We it's interesting. You point out the ant? I think from what we've gathered, it's about 70 to 80% of incoming leads come in through phone call. The other 20% are from like a form or a chat bot on a website. Our theory with our product is that a lot of times people will leave the website as they're looking at other websites, or they'll get distracted. So the first question our chat bot asks is, what's a cell phone? In case we lose you, we can text you back and forth. So it captures their cell phone number first, immediately, and it does it in a really good way. And then what that does is it now you can text them back and forth, and if they leave their computer, you can get a phone call scheduled and sign them up. And so I think that's kind of what we're banking on, is you're going to get way more if you can quickly get to text, because then you can actually have a conversation. And people like texting, like regardless of your age, people text. So, yeah,

I think we're all learning that, obviously it's a younger person's go to but we're all learning that if I can text and the other company or person on the other end is competent, I can do this much more efficiently than actually calling and the person's unavailable and they call you back. Absolutely people like text. So you said 70% ish or phone calls, and 20 or 30% are chats and forms. What percent is texting and how prevalent is that now with signing customers and even the attorneys communicating with customers?

Yes, so I actually don't know the statistic on how many like sign up from a text message, and that's something that we're still doing research on. But if you didn't sign them on the first call, or you submitted a form on a website, you're going to be texting them. It's inevitable, because people are busy during the work day, so if you can use that function, you have so much greater chance of signing that lead. It's just you have to,

and then Hona can be the text platform, right? You don't need the firm doesn't need, like, one cell phone, and the attorney doesn't use their personal cell phone. And then all the communications track, right? Exactly. Yep. Love it, alright. Well, hey, the good news is, we got to the short, quick one line answers, and we've been doing these one liners for 15 years or so on the podcast. So some famous people have come before you with the one liners. I love these because I learned something every single time. So first one is, what apps or techniques do you use for personal productivity?

Yeah, the biggest thing I use is just my eight to nine is my Power Hour at night. I use apps and technology, like I mentioned. I use loom to delegate tasks, but I get so much done from eight to nine I just have in my day. That's my time to respond to a million emails, text messages, and my kids are down, and I can just get so much done. So I just, I guess it's the technique is for me find one hour a day when you can just power hour. And mine happens to be from eight to 9pm I get so much done. So that's mine. I guess we

skipped the hockey part, but we gotta, we gotta delve into that a little bit. So for I'm about the same thing, it's about nine o'clock, and that's when my wife and my dog generally go to bed. And then I guess every second or third day I'll have a hockey game on football season, maybe a football game, yeah, a Winnipeg Jets fan and And ironically, Manny is also a Winnipeg Jets fan, but he didn't really know this. So so the history the Winnipeg Jets were sold to Arizona, and Arizona was terrible. The arena was in the wrong place, and they eventually lost the team to Utah, so Manny became a Utah hockey club fan. So congratulations. We're both Winnipeg Jets fans, but Winnipeg bought Atlanta, so now the Winnipeg Jets are back, and you all have our leftovers, but enjoy. Try breaking our records. Jay, that's right, that's right. We're talking about that earlier. Some of the Winnipeg Jets records are, in fact, the Utah hockey club records. And so now in Winnipeg we talk I'm not in Winnipeg, I'm in South Florida, but I've watched all the games in Winnipeg, we talk about jets 1.0 and jets 2.0 so you're either, as a player, you got to break the one point over the 2.0 records. And

you you would know this. Sorry. Do I have any retired Utah hockey club jerseys that are jets?

I believe so as as a matter of fact, they might have retired Keith kachuk Jersey, and everybody who watched the Four Nations saw the kachuk brothers, who are now the captain of Ottawa's Brady kachuk and the assistant captain of the Stanley Cup winning Florida Panthers is Matthew kachuk and but their dad, Keith Chuck, was, I believe he was a jet. Went with Winnipeg to Arizona, and then the boys were born in Arizona, so they must know entire history, because he was legitimate star. That's awesome. Do you have a personal wellness and fitness routine?

I do my wellness and fitness routine. I get up at 530 and I exercise for an hour, and then I read for 30 minutes, and that's like my time to decom. Like, I don't know about you, I have like anxiety in the morning, later in the day, I'm in the zone and I'm going but like in the morning, I have so much stress and anxiety just about the day, and that helps me just let it all go, and the reading gets me in a really calm mood. So that's my thing.

Yeah, no, I work out or play tennis every morning. So I don't even know what it would be like not to, and I don't get around to the reading at night, but if I did, 75 heart Have you heard of that? Oh, yeah, you got to read your 10 pages of non fiction every day, and that, I find that's a really good routine, because then you get through a book every 2030, days. It's awesome. Speaking of books, what's your best business books? My

favorite business book ever is Shoe Dog. Phil Knight, the Nike story. Yeah, good one. Just so inspiring, so cool. His work ethic. My second favorite, I think, is How to Win Friends and Influence People. Yep, classic. And then I love Good to Great, too. I just finished that one a few weeks ago. Good

one. Yeah, blogs, podcasts and youtubes. What do you subscribe to? And when it hits your feed, you're like, okay, whatever podcast I was listening to, I'm switching over to,

I only have one of those called the all in podcast. It's a

love all in, yeah, you listen to, oh, good, yeah.

So economics and technology podcast once a week. Super popular, yeah?

I love all in was a matter of fact. The host is Jason Calacanis, yeah, say that Jason was on my show when he was doing a startup called Mahalo. He was on this 10 golden rules podcast. You can go back to really episode 23 or something. I don't even know the number, and I always say that he didn't have a podcast. But I recently discovered that might be incorrect, like he might have started some podcast when he was at weblogs Inc. I also proud to say I had Gary Vaynerchuk on my show. Oh, wow, when he worked at his dad's wine store, but he was a YouTube phenomenon, but he didn't have a podcast. We've been at this for a while. Your sports team? Do you have an NFL team? Or are you just a Utah hockey club guy? No,

I, I follow my my team is just BYU sports. So football, basketball and my NFL team, I don't really have one, because we don't have one in Utah. I just follow former BYU players. So that works.

That works, yeah. And last question, what's a great introduction for you guys? Like, how do we send someone over to Hona?

Yeah, just hona.com. Is the best way we were lucky enough to get H O N, a.com like you don't get four letter pronounceable domains anymore, but ours is so that's yes. When? When did you get it? How long ago we got it? About two years ago. We actually formerly called milestones, had a conflict with the name, and then had to rebrand tahona. So

did you have to buy the domain? I'm sure you did. We did. It

was like 50 grand. It started at 50 we got it for like 35

Yeah, that's about, right? That's a good lesson for everybody, that a lot of people go to GoDaddy, and they search for a name and they assume it's not available. But as a matter of fact, 10 golden rules started in the spare office of a domain registrar like a GoDaddy called moniker.com and so we learned a lot about the domain business. But at that time, and I'm going back 22 years, everyone was buying up domains, and there was a lot of people who saw this as the future real estate. And so every three letter domain and four letter domain with.com at the end of it, people just bought it for a future sale for their kids or I kids, and they were super smart to do that. And in those days, used to monetize a domain and have clicks on it. And some of them still do so if someone types in hona.com they would see links to other websites, and they would make money off those links. Well, the good lesson here is that just because the domain seems like it's not available, type it into GoDaddy or one of the other registrars and see if it's available for purchase. And then, generally, you can purchase a domain for 75 to 80% of what the listed value is. Oh, wow, don't pay the listed rate. Yes, if you wanted Hona, or if you wanted milestones, don't end up buying like milestones. Dash legal.us, which is pretty un memorable name, just because you didn't do your due diligence on. Finding a better name, right?

Well, that what you just described, is what happened to us. Some guy had bought a few dozen domain names, and this was one of his last ones that he was selling off, and he was happy to get rid of it, and we negotiated for weeks, but, you know, saved 15 grand. That's pretty significant. Seven,

does it stand for anything? Or, yeah, just a short, memorable name. It

does. It's actually an ancient Egyptian word for Compass. So Hona guides your clients through the intake process and through the case process. So we liked that. It worked out really well. And, yeah, pretty

cool. I love it. That's great. Last question, Where can people get in touch with you?

Yeah, honestly, so if they want to email me, personally, I'm fine with that. Manny@hona.com but honestly, just submitting on our websites the best way contact us, or the form. Bill So,

and is there a free trial? Or how do people check out the product. So we have three

products, and we do offer free trials for some of them. Our tool does take some setup, so we usually don't do a free trial, but yeah, we do live demos. We'll do a custom we'll put your logo in it. We'll put all the material, your video content, in it to show you what it would look like for your clients. So that's kind of a cool thing we do,

and you've gotta integrate with the case manager for the most part, right? That's why the setup we don't

have to but most do. Yeah, most will set it up. It's easier, that way.

Awesome. Well, Manny, this was really, really great. I learned a lot, and I'm happy to know more about you guys and refer you in the future. So thanks for spending the time today.

Awesome. Thanks, Jay. Fun being on here.