123: Meet Lawyerist CEO Stephanie Everett – Creating Scalable Law Firms

Yeah, when it comes to my job, it's I've been in those shoes, like I was there. I was running a firm. I was feeling all the stress and the anxiety. I know what it's like, and I remember thinking at the time, like, there has to be an easier way to do this. What am I missing? What What am I not figured out? And so that's really my why is, how can I help lawyers my colleagues, make their life a little bit easier, and in doing so, create a firm that's going to serve more clients, serve them better. Create places. Create law firms that are, you know, employers of choice. You know, a lot of times people talk about working at a law firm, and it's just an awful place to work. We've all heard the stories. I mean, I have two of like, I once had a legal assistant tell me about how this partner would throw staplers across the office. I mean, terrible, terrible things, like, we have terrible reputations, and now I get to wake up and help law firms elevate themselves. And there are places where people want to come work because of the work they're doing, but also the environment and the culture they've created, and so I'm really proud of that.

Welcome to the 10 golden rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast featuring the latest strategies and techniques to drive traffic to your website and convert that traffic into clients. Now here's the founder and CEO of 10 golden rules. Jay Berkowitz,

well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome to the 10 golden rule has been a net marketing for law firms podcast. We have an awesome guest. I'm really looking forward to learning more about Stephanie Everett from the lawyers, and she's got an awesome story a recovered attorney and really, really great product. Want to just take two minutes and talk about tgr live 2025 our live event happening March 10 and 11th, Monday, Tuesday, in beautiful Delray Beach, Florida on the ocean at the opal grand got some amazing guests lined up, and the information is now on our website at 10 golden rules. So that's the exciting news from tgr. This week, Mike Morris is going to be speaking the attorney with a $200 million personal injury firm in Michigan. And we've got some other amazing speakers. Ben leader is an attorney with an incredible intake case study. And Ben Glass is going to be speaking, and I just spoke to Jason Melton today, and he is going to be joining the agenda. So we got some amazing content and amazing people coming, and the vendors are excited. So we're really excited about this event. Anyways, without further. ADO Stephanie, welcome to the 10 golden rules podcast. Hi. Thanks for having me. So tell us first a little bit about your journey and how you ended up as a relatively famous member of the legal community. So please go ahead,

yeah? Famous to a small crowd, yeah. So, like a lot of your listeners, I started as a lawyer right practiced at big law, then had the opportunities to start my own firm with a partner. We had two clients come to us and say, Hey, have you guys ever thought about starting your own firm? And they did it in the same week. And so when the second one came along, we were like, Wait a minute. Should we be listening to this? What's happening here? So had no idea I was going to ever launch a firm, but I did. We started it, the two of us, and we took my legal assistant, had a lot of success, we grew it to a team of 20 in just under seven years, and I was the managing partner, and I was figuring out the business and and I loved the business puzzle of putting all this together, and got the opportunity, I don't know, just like maybe, people were coming to me saying, How did you do this? How'd you build your firm? How, how does this all work? And I thought, I think there's a business here. So I took the leap of faith and got certified as a coach and and started coaching and consulting for firms, and that led me on a path to lawyerist Eventually, where now I get to do that for firms all over the world.

I heard a term five years ago. It was called a god wink, and I had three different indications. One advertising agency was only working with one niche, and they were doing great, and a software company only worked with hospitality and sold the company for three, $60 million and then I met Josh Nelson from seven figure Agency, and the strategy of the seven figure agency like niche down, only worked with one niche and become the expert in your niche. And so I started calling that my god way, when you can sort of get hit over the head three times in a very short period of time. It's like, okay, I get it. We're gonna go with the lawyer net. Only work with lawyers. So it sounds like God has winked his love on you a couple times. Yeah,

I think so for sure. And I tell everyone now I hit the professional lottery, like, I love my job. I love this is what I get to do every day. Okay, so I'm the lucky.

And lawyers started out really just as content, right? Yeah.

I mean, at the very beginning, it was a blog kind of annoyed with lawyers for not using an embrace, embracing technology. And from that blog, we're like, Oh, is there a business here? And it turned into, then a resource website where lawyers were, where we were putting up more content about, okay, how do you actually run a business? And then from there, it evolved again into, can we actually be your business coach, consultant and help you run your firm, which is what we do now. Great.

And you actually sold the law firm, right?

I did. Yeah.

So how long has lawyers been on its own? Um,

great question, and I don't remember. So I'm not an original founder of lawyerist. Aaron Street and and Sam Glover were the original founders. I don't remember the exact date, but it's been, you know, 15 years now. I came along to help launch the coaching program and and then in a funny, not of you know, funny turn of events, they kept changing my title. I think they finally were like, Wait, you're really good at this. Can you just take on more responsibility? So they kept changing my title to eventually, I was the CEO and, and they're off enjoying themselves, doing other things. Now,

I'm not sure if I like that question, but I know if you love your job, then then it's fantastic. Yeah, for sure. And talk to me a little bit about the product and how you help firms and how that rolls out to market.

Yeah, we really start with where where firms are today. I think maybe a thing that makes us unique is we're really zeroed in on the law firm owner and what their goals are. And so you obviously we're working with smaller firms and and so therefore, we're often working with a founder, with the managing partner, maybe a small group of owners of partners. And so we we talked to them, and we really tried to uncover what, what did they want when they first did this? What do they want to build? You know, or maybe they started with an idea of what they wanted to build, and they they're somewhere else, and it's like, well, what are you trying to do with this business? Because I think so many lawyers, especially kind of open firms for a job like they, they create a job for themselves. Maybe they thought they were going to create some flexibility with their schedule, or they thought, you know, I want to have more control and make more decisions. And then they wake up along the way and they're like, What am I doing? Where did this thing come from? Because what I thought I was creating that's not at all what I got. And so we have to sort of revamp a lot of times and say, what is it you were trying to build and and what's that path to get you there?

Yeah, I'm going to ask you about your best business books later, but say 50% of people mention E Myth, the classic story in the book E Myth, which is the entrepreneur myth, not It's not electronic. People always think data is something to do with the internet, but it's about that moment where, when people have the entrepreneur at a moment, and they decide, you know, I can do this better than my boss. I should open my own law firm or plumbing or pie shop or whatever is. It's one of the examples in the book. And then once they get into it, they find out, right? They've just created a job for themselves. Oh, and guess what? At the end of the month, there's no money left, you don't get paid. So it's, yeah, it's a, you know the classic story about becoming a business owner and business operator versus just being the technician or the expert.

Yeah, I too, love that book. And you know, if anything, it's great at teaching of that concept, but then it sort of leaves you wanting, okay, so then, how do I go do this? So a lot of times people are coming to us lawyers figured out, Hey, I actually didn't learn how to run a business in law school, and I realized now I am running a business, and I'm wearing all these hats, and I'm doing all these things, and I don't have the guidance that I needed to make this successful. And so that's where we come in, and we provide a lot of we have a lot of content on we're really focused on all aspects of running your business. So it starts with strategy, but then, how do you build a team? How do you, you know, have a marketing strategy and help them attract and deliver great services for your clients, and build the systems and technology and understand your finances. And then it kind of, our model ends with a healthy owner. So we call it all the healthy firm model. And the last piece is you as an owner. You know, are you fulfilling the life that you want? Are you taking vacations? Are you unplugging? Are you doing all the things you need to do to set yourself up for success?

That quality of life comes up over and over in all the consulting organizations, teaching organizations are John from how to manage, and other folks just consistently touch on that. How do you get to that happy life? Well, you have to go through all the building blocks before, for the most part, right? Sometimes,

yeah, I mean, we had one firm that we work with, husband and wife team. They run the firm together, and, you know, she's from Italy, and their dream. Was, could we have a world where we spend our summers in Italy with the family, letting their kids, you know, know the grandparents and all the extended family, but still run our law firm from Italy, and I have a lot of stories like this, and so we knew that was the goal, and they were able to make it happen in, I think, 18 to 20 months, but it was like we were very intentional. Like, that's what it looks like spending a summer in Italy. How do we get there and with the right steps, then, yeah, you can make that come true.

And is there an operating system that you like for law firms? We've, uh, adopted EOS. The folks who listen to this podcast have heard from a number of Eos experts, the entrepreneur, operating system traction. Gina wigman, yep, we're,

we're big fans. We actually use EOS to run our business as well, and have for many years. And so I'd, I'd say that we're pulling a lot of the best practices out of Eos. Like, I'm not a certified person, so I'm always, you know, the lawyer in me is always very hesitant to be like, you know, but we understand those concepts, and I probably differ with Gino and a couple. I call him Gina like He's my friend. But, you know, I feel like I've read the book and studied all the things enough that I can say that there's a couple of places where I feel like it doesn't quite fit into a law firm, and we might have to massage things a little, but a lot of those principles are just general, great business principles that that are pulled together from a lot of different resources and and do work for a law firm for the most part. Yeah,

I'm with you. Gino feels like he's my friend. I've read like five of the books attraction, get a grip. They're all sitting here. What the heck is the OS rocket fuel is about the founder, the visionary and the operator and the integrators role together,

and I got them all too good. So yeah,

but one of the things I think is cool about our friend Gino is, like you said, he liberally borrows from other previous like E Myth and but he quotes them. And that's actually one of my favorite things about his style is he'll say like, you know, in Rockefeller habits, but, you know, they they use the term rocks. And he'd like, instead of taking the same business concept and giving it a new name, so it's his name, he actually refers to the previous author. And doesn't confuse us by, you know, calling the same basic principle something else. And then you have to try and figure it out in your head. I love that bonus style, and then that sort of authenticity too. Okay, great. So what does it look like? How do you bring these firms along? Like, do they meet with you? Is it a group? Thing? Is in person on zooms?

Yeah, kind of all the above for the most part. I mean, there's some variation, depending on how much people are ready to invest in their firms and where they are, exactly what it might look like. But for the most part, we're connecting them with a with a business coach. They get to meet with that person one on one and have that consistent, you know, touch base with them throughout the month. We start by getting their strategy in place. Once we know what that is, then we can help make sure they're they're executing on that. They get a library of online resources, and we try to provide as many templates and starting points as possible. They're not starting from scratch. And then, yes, it's filled in with group calls and workshops and office hours and all kinds of opportunities. And then we do meet in person once a year. We tried the year we were ready to go twice a year, then COVID hit. So we haven't quite built back up to that, but we do have a couple of smaller groups that meet throughout the year on a different cadence. So we love that one on one. You know, whenever you get to be in person, it's just so great. Yeah,

and is it a mastermind style? Sometimes, though,

there are some people who do, who have are following that mastermind that they really like that, and if they're committed to it, it's awesome. Other times the group sessions, like I said, it might be a workshop where we're coming in. Sometimes we just give people space to work. And that sounds really strange to just say that, like, oh, but last week we ran an ops manual sprint, so everybody came onto the call and it's like, what are we gonna what are we gonna get done in this next 60 minute sprint? And having that dedicated time on their calendars, and they're on the Zoom call, and then they all mute and just get some work done and come have the accountability at the end of the call of saying, Wow, I just documented three processes for my firm that I've been that have been sitting on the to do list forever. Like that feels really great. And we, you know, applaud and reward that success. Or or if they're in those sprint and they get stuck, they know they got a coach right there that can just peel off and go help them. So there's a lot of benefit, I think, to working in that setting. See

me laughing. I got the new, like, printed manuscript of my book. My new book is called advanced Internet Marketing for law firms, for those who are not watching the YouTube and by the way, we have a YouTube challenge here. Podcast listener. And you ever want to see Stephanie, by the way, this would be a good one to see in person. And I was just thinking, like, if I could just get. Three days, like in a hotel somewhere, and just like, work at it. And, you know, get out of the day to day life, I could get this thing done, but I'm chipping away, like an hour or two a day. And it's a it's one of those rocks to use a rock, or an EOS term, that's, it feels like a boulder on my shoulders. So we talked a little bit just before we pressed record, and we talked about, I had a couple an example of a couple firms, and they get about similar website traffic, and one signs about 20 cases a month, and one signs about 80 cases a month. And they're in similar sized markets with similar size web traffic. You know, what are two or three things that differentiate firms that really succeed and firms that really struggle?

Yeah, I think the first is strategy, right? We see a lot of firms do what I call random acts of marketing, or just throwing stuff on the wall. I'm sure you see this as well. You know, people call us and they're like, ah, should I have a podcast? And I'm like, I don't know who's your who's your art or Another example might be like, they, should I be on this one social media platform? You know, back in the day it was it was Twitter, and I'm always like, well, who are your ideal clients and are, where are they going for help and information? So really trying to help people think through strategically where they should be and why. So that's kind of the first obvious answer. I think the second tip I'd give people is be authentic, like you've got to do what works for you to me, like, if you're not great at showing up and working a room, whatever that means, don't set up those like, I'm kind of over that this point in my life. So what I've started doing is curating a small group of people and asking each of them to invite someone that from their network that they think I should know that I don't. And then let's go do a meaningful activity together. Maybe we go to a pasta making class or, you know, whatever it is you like to do. I've seen people have a lot of success, like with a knitting group, if that's what you're into, and then have a interesting evening together, doing an activity and meeting people. I To me, that sounds a lot more fun than showing up at the local event and walking around the room trying to give out business cards. So I think it's leaning into who you are and what you like doing, and then looking for those opportunities to how you can use that to expand your network. I love

the authenticity, and you see me smiling again, makes me think of something that's very, very current, and that's a conversation around branding, and we've put a heightened focus on it, and we're the digital marketing agency, so our job is not to figure out your positioning or branding, but I believe it's so important, and really from the standpoint of just people clicking on your website and clicking on your brand, on a paid ad, clicking on your local service ad, your smiling face. So having consistency of a brand message is very, very important. And people always ask, like, what you know? What do I put on my landing page? Do I put a car accident? Like, for a personal injury, learn? Do I put a car accident? Do I put a picture of me fighting the insurance company? Do I put a big check and do I put a picture of the law firm? And, you know, the the answer is, really what you said, which is, like, first of all, figure out your authentic self, like, what is the firm? What differentiates you guys? What are you guys really great at? And then pick one, one lane and stay in that lane so your website has that message. Your social media has that message. Your communities the message. I saw a great attorney named John Berry speak recently, and he's a veteran. They do a lot of veterans disability work and personal injury work, but everything they do, you know, has that message that his his dad was was in the military, his brother was in the military, he was in the military. You know, the family the firm, are very dedicated to helping veterans, and that's consistent positioning and everything. When you and you put up a whole bunch of their social media, it's all very, very consistent in terms of the branding. So long way of saying it's like a, figure out who you are, and then B, deliver that consistently and everything, yeah.

And I think that feeds kind of right into my third tip, which is like, the way you run your business is really important. So as you and I were kind of discussing before you hit record, if people do find you your website, did that work? And they call you and no one answers the phone, then that's not great. Or, you know, somebody answers the phone and is like, law office, right? And they just sound like they don't want to be there. They've they're having a, you know, terrible experience with their job or or maybe every time the client calls, it's a new person, because there's a lot of turnover. Like, I think we sometimes forget that having our back office and having the business run in a really cohesive, successful way aligned with our core values and what we're trying to do, it all feed it. You can't really separate it. It all feeds into each other. And so that's why, you know, even with our healthy firm, it's like the entire thing has to, has to really sing, really

Yeah, and God bless the healthy firm. Because, you know, either you need Stephanie. Her team. You need EOS. You need a great business coach. You've got to figure it out for yourself. Because, you know, like I say, the guy with the 20 cases and the same amount of web traffic, like you said, all those symptoms are there, turnover, don't answer the phone. Clients constantly calling them asking for an update on their cases. And you know, all the symptoms of bar complaints. You know, it all adds up to, guess what? You don't get referrals. You don't get referrals from other lawyers. You don't get referrals from MRI clinics and chiropractors, because your firm's a nightmare to deal with. You don't get paid. They know that when they give a referral, the client's dissatisfied. So all those markers,

yeah, it all, it all matters, yeah, which is, I mean, frankly, also, it's why this is hard. Like, I think sometimes we forget that running a business is actually really difficult. Someone once asked me, like, When am I going to have this all figured out and this thing's just going to be on auto drive? And I was like, you know, kind of never, because there's always going to be some issue or opportunity or challenge, right? Like, that's the nature of this beast. And so I think sometimes we sort of kid ourselves like, I love being a business owner. I love running a business, and it's really hard to do. And there's days that I wish like, maybe this would be easier if I just showed up and someone told me what to do, but that's not the path I chose. So yeah,

Tony Robbins has a great line. He says, like, doesn't matter how successful you are, everyone has problems. You just arrive at your problems in a much nicer ride. Yeah, there you go. So let's talk a little bit about you. Tell us a little bit about your career and those changes you made, maybe phrase it as lessons for a young attorney or young business person, what fork in the road Did you see, and why did you take it, and what lessons can be learned?

Yeah, the first biggest fork was, obviously I was, I was practicing out of law school at a big law firm, because that's what I thought you were supposed to do when you graduated from law and then I got this opportunity to go start something new and my own, and so I stayed open to that possibility. I think that's the first thing. Because if you'd asked me, even just a month before that happened, was that my path, I would have laughed and said, Of course not. But when the opportunity came, no, I weighed and evaluated it, and I was just like, yeah, actually, I do think this is a this is a risk I'm willing to take, and the path I want to take, and I'm so excited I did, because that really changed the trajectory for me. And so being open to those possibilities, and my husband always says, like, always take the meeting. When somebody calls and, you know, you don't know where it's going to lead, so you might as well take the meeting. I mean, that's also how I got to lawyers like Sam reached out and was like, Hey, I think what we're hiring for this job. And I read it, I was like, that's not the job for me, that what you're hiring for has nothing to do with and he was like, no, let's just talk. I think there's something there. And that's how I ended up at lawyers. I didn't mention this before, but I was able to launch and run an incubator. It was a collaborative project from the State Bar, our five law schools here in Georgia and the Georgia Supreme Court, and we were helping new lawyers start socially conscious law firms. And that was really my job, between running the firm and doing lawyerist. And again, it was just this crazy opportunity that I saw, and I was like, this thing was written for me. Well, let me go take a chance and do it. And so there's a little bit of you have to be open and willing to take some risk, I think, along the way,

great, and tell us about your why. You've all seen this. Simon Sinek, number one TED talk of all time about finding your why. What's your why? What makes you get up in the morning and makes you excited?

Yeah, when it comes to my job, it's I've been in those shoes, like I was there, I was running a firm. I was feeling all the stress and the anxiety. I know what it's like, and I remember thinking at the time like, there has to be an easier way to do this. What am I missing? What? What am I not figured out? And so that's really my why is, how can I help lawyers, my colleagues, make their life a little bit easier, and in doing so, create a firm that's going to serve more clients, serve them better. Create places. Create law firms that are, you know, employers of choice. You know, a lot of times people talk about working at a law firm, and it's just an awful place to work. We've all heard the stories. I mean, I have two of like, I once had a legal assistant tell me about how this partner would throw staplers across the office. I mean, terrible, terrible things, like, we have terrible reputations, and now I get to wake up and help law firms elevate themselves. And there are places where people want to come work because of the work they're doing, but also the environment and the culture they've created. And so I'm really proud of that

great let's talk about startups. Like, maybe give me two tips for that person who makes the jump you did and they decide they're opening their own law firm,

yeah. I mean, start with a plan. Okay, so what is it? What are you dreaming about? What do you want to do and create some goals for yourself? Because I think that will help you get along kind of going on the right path. So that maybe is tip number one. Tip number two is going to be align yourself with the right help. So you don't have to do it alone. It doesn't mean you necessarily have to go hire a business coach if you don't have the you know, money to do to make that investment, but there's a lot of communities out there, and there's a lot of help out there, and it's really nice to have that community where you can bounce ideas and talk, you know, just like we do with our cases. I know I used to walk into my partner's office all the time and be like, is this argument going to work? Or how should we position this part of our case? You can find the right community to do that with your business too, and there's a lot of love and and sharing and genuineness that comes in our community. Like, I'm so proud that, like, lawyers open up and they're like, Yeah, I'll show you my books, or I'll show you how this is working. And they're just so willing to give and help each other. And I think that we don't always know that's out there, because in law school, we're pitted against each other, right? And then in litigation, it's like there's literally these between our names, and so we think everyone's out to get us. And I think as a business owner, we can let our guard down a little bit. We don't have to fight to the death. We can help a fellow business owner out.

I recently interviewed Ben Glass from Great Legal Marketing. Ben's a great guy, great podcast. You're going back and listening to some of the greatest hits. And he had a similar story. So when he was starting out, he was just organized these pizza parties, and he said, you know, the mastermind is so powerful. And so he'd invite five or six other attorneys to get together, and he'd buy the pizza or the coffee and donuts in the morning or whatever, and they they'd all get together once a month and just share war stories. And hey, here's some software that's working, or here's a great digital agency or whatever, whatever their wins were along the way. And he's like, you know, if you can't afford the formal mastermind, that's a great, great way to get started. And so, and just asking for help is a great strategy, right? Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. So what do you think is the next level? Is there a plateau? Do you think that's like, seven people or 10 people or a million dollars? Like, what's that next level? And how do folks get over that? Huh?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple, there's obviously a couple of levels, right? When you first go from being on your own to growing a team. Now your scale. Now you're no longer the primary person serving your clients, but you have a team that's serving your clients. So your focus becomes on, how do you build that team so that they can deliver a consistent, quality experience? Then it probably shifts from there to, you know, the idea of of mid I mean, I guess I'm going to call them mid managers, but leaders. So now you're, you can't be everyone's, you know, not everyone's reporting to you. So you now need to instill and install leaders in your firm that are going to manage the other people. So that kind of, I feel like, is the next level. And then for a lot of the firms I'm working with, they're sort of ready to really be in that CEO role, they're like, maybe my day to day isn't best served handling cases, or if they do, they're really coming in on the big strategic decisions of the bigger cases, and they have a whole team that can really run the business and allow them to really sit in that CEO role for my small firms. That seems to kind of be the path that most of them are on obviously, if you're at a larger and then eventually, what are you going to do with it? So is there, is there a plan to sell? Is there an exit strategy? One thing we do talk about a lot is this is an appreciable asset that you're building that has value if you're doing it the right way. Right now, people think, well, we can't sell in most states to people who aren't lawyers. You know that is true, but we are. We still have the ability to sell your firm. I mean, there's still lawyers who will buy your firm, and I also am a strong believer that those regulations will probably change in our lifetime, and so you would be well served to position your firm now for that eventual reality.

Great, great point. Thank you. Well, the good news is we came to the one liners. I mentioned that I've been doing this podcast for about 15 years, and there's some some great to have walked in your shoes. And Gary Vaynerchuk answered these questions, and he is one of the top you know, podcasters in the world. At that time, he was working in his dad's wine store, and Jason Calacanis, who now claims and probably on some lists, he is the number one podcast in the world. He does the all in podcast, and they had a bunch of great stuff through the election and whatnot. So this is a famous question now that I've asked a number of folks, and these are the quick one liners. So what apps or techniques do you use for personal productivity.

Yeah, our team uses teamwork, so all my to do's and projects are captured there, which is really nice. Any any tool we use will do just use a tool. And strangely enough, I still have to do my weekly planning on paper, like I have to. There's something about. The way I like to write, and I kind of map it all out, like when I'm doing big mapping work, I just like pin and a blank piece of paper. That's great. It's not very high tech,

but, yeah, I still proof copy. I have to print it out, bad for the environment, but it's the way my brain works with a pen. Do you have a personal wellness and fitness routine.

Yes, and it could be better, but my kid plays soccer, and so I found a group of parents. We walk during soccer practice, and it's great either I walk with some other parents and I get a chance to talk, or that's when I listen to all my favorite podcasts. So I do that pretty consistently, three times a week. And then, you know, I'm now that I've reached a certain age, I'm trying to incorporate some weightlifting training in there. So any women, you know, I'll be 50 in six months. So this has become a new part of my life, and it's like all, what all of our friends are talking about is now, how do we take care of ourselves in this new era? So I'm still figuring that piece out, but I'm trying to be more intentional about

sounds like you got it figured out, but there's a great book called The younger next year. And the gentleman went retired, and he went to his doctor, and his doctor said, like, if you don't figure some of these things out, you're going to be dead in like five years. But God, what do you mean? He said, like, you need a fitness routine. You need a something, a meaning in your life, especially for men who worked and wife ran the household, and particularly like core work and abs and stuff like that, because if you fall so that's a great one for folks in our general age, I'm going to classify myself in your general age. And you mentioned the podcast you listen to when you're walking. So it's a great segue to the next question, what blogs, podcasts or YouTubes Do you subscribe to, and when they hit your feed, you're like, Okay, forget the last podcast. I'm listening to this or this YouTube?

Yeah, I pretty consistently listen to coaching for leaders with Dave stahoviak. Don't ask me to spell it, but I really enjoy his show, and he has some interesting guests on I don't know, I should have pulled up my like list here. Of all, you know, people are always sending me ones like you should listen to this one, so I kind of am popping around a lot, and books, all the classics, the ones you mentioned are my favorites too. Brendan Burchard, I listened to for his healthy habits book high performance habits.

Yeah, Brandon's Great, yeah, maybe one

that's, I don't know, doesn't get as much play time used sometimes, is Greg Crabtree's book on I'm like, looking to make sure I get it right. Simple numbers, Straight Talk, big profits. Yeah, there you go. You got it. That was a big breakthrough, one for me thinking about the finances for our business. So I like that a lot, because it really helps frame out how you should think about money and how you make money as an owner. Yeah,

so with you on great Crabtree that I asked him to speak at tgr live. So here's my second commercial for the live event tgr live, 2025, March, 10 and 11th. If you didn't go check it out, please go to 10 golden rules.com, and click on the link. And great Crabtree is going to be there, among amazing other speakers and, and I agree, like, simple numbers, big profits. Like, it's like, it's an accounting book, okay? It's not the most exciting, but their accounting is, matter of fact, we hired them to do some accounting consulting for us, they're the way they do accounting is fantastic because they do, like a three month, they take the three month rolling, and they do the projections based off of that. Whereas a lot of accounting, like most accountants, will look at last year's numbers, and we're growing. Thank God. So like, last year's numbers have nothing to do with the next quarter. So yeah, there's great stuff in that book. I've

also had, I've also interviewed Greg for our podcast. So if you want to get a, you know, get a listen in. That's a good way to do it. And he's done workshops for us too. So yeah,

big fan. Yeah, he's awesome. And he's on our podcast too. So go listen to both of them, and then you if you're not a book. But that brings up the next topic, best business books. Oh,

I thought that's where the web's doing. So those are the best business books. Okay,

great, crap,

all of them. And yeah, Pat lazione. I mean, I have a bookshelf. I feel like I'm a business book junkie. And like you, I have a podcast where I get to interview a lot of these folks, and so that gives me a good reason to read business books. I'll throw in one different one who also was a favorite guest for me, Alicia Menendez. She wrote a book on I get a really, I'll make sure we have it for the show notes. But it was all about women are often, like, the Goldilocks effects, right? Like, how do we we have to show up. Sometimes, if we're too confident, then we get called that b word, and if we're not confident enough, then maybe we can't be a leader. So she really kind of framed this argument that comes up a lot for women in business. Especially, like, how do we show up and how do we find that right path? And, you know, I so I like to sometimes dive. It's not necessarily business advice like Greg, you know, Crabtree gives, it's just, but there's all these, there's all these issues that we're always right, yeah, we're always dealing with all the wrestling with all these issues. So I love reading all the leadership books, too.

Awesome and easy. One. Who's your NFL team?

Oh, it's not easy. We grew up liking Washington, so we're still going to call them the Washington football team. But we live in Atlanta now, so we also root for the Falcons.

Yeah, Washington looks great this year.

Yeah, it's kind of, it's been it's been fun again. We're like, Wait what's happening? This is unexpected, like

RG, three all over again. And last couple questions, what's a great introduction for you? Who? Who should I send your way?

Yeah, if you're a law firm owner and you're ready to scale, really like you, maybe you've been doing this by yourself, and you know you need to build a team, and you need to build systems and processes so that you can really grow that's who we I mean, we love working with all firms, but we can really help you in that transition when you're kind of going or maybe a smaller team and really trying to grow it out.

And last one, where can people get in touch with you?

Yeah, you can always head to our website, lawyerist.com so lawyer is t.com I'm stephanie@lawyerist.com and all the usual places on social media, I'm there. Love to reach out, connect

Stephanie, this was great. Thank you so much for your time today.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you for listening to the 10 golden rules of internet marketing for law firms. Podcast, please send questions and comments to podcast at 10 golden rules.com that is podcast at t e n golden rules.com you.