Why Community-Led Growth is the Future of B2B Marketing

Welcome, dear listeners, to the speak and flow, podcast where we dive into unique experiences and share insights to help you and your team unleash the power of their voice, achieve maximum potential and flow.

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Melinda Lee: Today I have a leader who is so dedicated to building communities and fostering people bringing people together. He is a long time community led growth leader.

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Melinda Lee: He has built communities for big companies, such As Asana, Evernote, Cbs news as well as smaller professional organizations. His name is Joshua Zirkle. Welcome, Joshua!

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Joshua Zerkel: Alright! Thanks, Melinda.

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Melinda Lee: I'm so glad you're here. I am excited about our conversation today. It is jam packed with amazing nuggets. But first, st can you share with our audience. What does a community led growth leader do.

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Joshua Zerkel: That is a very good question. So in the world of business and nonprofits and just life, there's always groups of people that come together around a topic or something they're interested in, or a project that they're working on.

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Joshua Zerkel: A community led growth leader sits within a team at an organization like one of the ones that you mentioned.

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Joshua Zerkel: And my job is to create programs, experiences and structures to bring people together around the company that I work at. So, for instance, at Asana, my job was to create a community for our customers so that they could learn how to use the product. Better get ideas from one another, share what they were creating and then advocate to other people within their teams and beyond.

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Joshua Zerkel: So community led growth leader is really there to help facilitate bringing people together so that they can get more value out of what we offer, and in turn creating value for the company that I work at.

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Melinda Lee: Yes, and cause this is such a spin on how people and companies usually do their growth. Expansion has been traditionally through marketing. We know that also there's like platforms such as if you don't have a company. Meetup has been popularized as a way to bring like minded people together. So in the same sense, you do this for companies bringing.

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Joshua Zerkel: Exactly.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, the people that want to know your company and like your product, your services, the people you bring them all together. And and so what has been the traditional way of companies growing in marketing.

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Joshua Zerkel: I mean, traditionally, it's the the things that we're all used to, but mostly ignore. Where we see ads. We see billboards. We are sold, those things still have a role to play. You still need to become aware of a brand or product. You still need to see messaging about it. But at this point most people don't just see an ad and buy something

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Joshua Zerkel: that those days are long over buyers. They ask people in their network what they like to use. They go online and do research. They may research many tools or products before they make a final purchasing decision. And they may need to come across a brand multiple times before they decide what to do.

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Melinda Lee: There's new.

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Joshua Zerkel: Community helps facilitate and speed all of those processes along, because by building a community for your brand or your product, your service, you're creating a network of people that are really excited about what you do, who really believe in it and become advocates on your behalf that way, when that person who's searching for a product or a service asks their network. You can raise your hand and say, Hey, this is what I use. Here's why I like it. Think about choosing this when you're making your decision.

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Joshua Zerkel: It adds an authentic voice into that often very blast messagey marketing mix.

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Joshua Zerkel: You're hearing from real people about their real experiences. I can craft, the community. But I don't control what people say. I want to make sure they have a good experience, so that they say positive things, but I want it to be authentic, and that's the value.

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Melinda Lee: Right. And so what if companies don't do it? What if companies say, I don't believe this community thing? What what do you think

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Melinda Lee: could happen.

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Joshua Zerkel: I think they're behind the times. Frankly, they're out of step with how buyers

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Joshua Zerkel: purchase, and they're out of step with how users experience a product and want to get more out of it. I think the real danger for them is that they get left behind because their competitors are probably already spinning up community programs or building networks of advocates, or showing their customers more attention in ways that a competitor may not be, and so, by not creating a deliberate effort towards building community

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Joshua Zerkel: think they're just really missing out on all the good things that come when you have a network of people who really care about what you do. That's something that takes time to create and craft, but

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Joshua Zerkel: impossible to replicate. There's never going to be another community exactly like the one that's built around your brand, your persona, it's really specific to you. And so by not doing that, you're just missing a lot of really important opportunities for growth and for getting people excited.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, what? What are companies doing? What do you see? Are the top? 3 things that compete with building a community like you said one is blasting with with online marketing, social media billboards.

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Melinda Lee: email. What are some of the other things that companies do.

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Joshua Zerkel: I think most of the time it falls into the traditional marketing categories which are like brand building brand awareness.

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Melinda Lee: Hold on!

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Joshua Zerkel: Billboards, paid ads, ads and magazines, newspapers like offline, and then online, of course, all the paid digital ads, social media ads, etc.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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Joshua Zerkel: But they're still important. They still have an important role to play. And then the other thing companies do is they invest a lot in sales.

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Joshua Zerkel: You need to get people to be interested, to reach out to sales in most cases before they can actually decide to close a deal. So companies are still investing in these very traditional methods, which again, are part of the whole process. But community is like a force multiplier for all of those things. Because if a company is spending money on social media advertising, a community program can equip

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Joshua Zerkel: its members to amplify all of those messages. If a company is investing in sales. A community program can help identify potential high quality prospects or leads based on what's happening in the community and how people are discussing the product. So there's a layer that's just being missed when companies are investing in these more traditional routes.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, I can see that I can set definitely see. And so tell us more about what

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Melinda Lee: is your process for building a community?

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Joshua Zerkel: Yeah, I think for building a community.

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Joshua Zerkel: it's important to recognize, like one that you, your company or organization really values, that this is a thing that's worth investing in, because it is a process that's frankly pretty new to most organizations. And it does take a little bit of understanding things in a way that's a little bit more nuanced than

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Joshua Zerkel: we make an ad. Someone clicks on it or we send an email and someone clicks on it or someone sales and they close a deal. I approach community building pretty methodically. I built a whole model and framework around. How I do this I call it the growth model. It's essentially the G is for generating insights. It's just like doing research and understanding what your company needs and what your members might want

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Joshua Zerkel: the R. Stands for readying your program for launch. So really spending time making sure that it's everything works. It's high quality. It's giving people what they ask for the O. Stands for opening and launching to customers. So really making a big impression right away with, when you launch the program folks, the W is for working the data. So that really means

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Joshua Zerkel: using information that's within your community, the data that's there to understand what people want, what they're asking for what they might need and how you can make the program better. And that leads to the T in the growth model, which is tweak and adapt really adjusting the program to meet the needs of the business and participants. And then the final letter H is for harnessing momentum. So you can really grow and scale this over time. So each step has work that you do specifically to

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Joshua Zerkel: craft the program so that it matches to what the business goals are and the needs of the people who participate in it. That's 1 big difference between community and other forms of go to market or marketing methods or sales methods is in a more traditional model. It's really transactional. You see, an ad. You click. You buy.

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Melinda Lee: Let me.

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Joshua Zerkel: Email. You read it. Maybe you click to learn a bit more about a product or service with community. It's about a relationship. It's relationship building at scale. So if I do my job well, in building community.

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Joshua Zerkel: I may send a message to our community members telling them about something that we're doing for them as part of the program.

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Joshua Zerkel: If I do the job well, they respond back, they say, Oh, that's great! Or tell me more, or how can I participate? How can I be engaged? And the conversation continues? So this is a very different, longer term, more relationship, based way of thinking about engaging customers.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, I love that. And how valuable is that to really listen? Get the customer insights to, then, like you said, be able to tweak and to modify.

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Melinda Lee: And so I had a question. So if a company were to do this, do you recommend that they do it? I think it probably depends on the phase of the company. Do you do it at a large scale, or do you suggest they do it at like for each of their platforms. Like each of their social media efforts.

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Joshua Zerkel: That's a good question. I'm a a fan of starting small.

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Joshua Zerkel: In a manageable way, but planning for what the future might look like. So, even though your future vision might have, like many pieces and different

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Joshua Zerkel: program and span many different channels. Maybe today, right now, you only have the person power and the resources to start with one. I'd rather you start with one than wait till the future, when you can build it all at once and have the whole shebang. I don't think that's a recipe for success. I think better to start start small.

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Melinda Lee: It's.

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Joshua Zerkel: Get people into the community, get them excited, and then, as you progress over time and your community grows, add on pieces that work towards that vision that you've laid out.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah.

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Joshua Zerkel: If you can't do it today, at least you have the path towards where you want to go.

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Melinda Lee: Exactly.

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Joshua Zerkel: Start working piece by piece to get there.

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Melinda Lee: I love it. And can you share with us an example of what you've done at a company.

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Joshua Zerkel: Yeah.

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Melinda Lee: Or to yeah, before and after.

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Joshua Zerkel: Yeah. So when I got to Asana, there was no community program, they had just launched a community forum which is the most traditional aspect of community where you can go online, you search for an answer to your technical problem or question, and then you see it. You leave.

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Melinda Lee: Not stand those.

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Joshua Zerkel: Yeah, tho those

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Joshua Zerkel: great, they serve a purpose. But that's not a true community that's more of like a utilitarian tool.

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Melinda Lee: Yes, yes.

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Joshua Zerkel: So when I got to Asana I spent some time listening to customers.

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Melinda Lee: Okay.

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Joshua Zerkel: What they would want out of a community program that I listen to internal stakeholders to better understand what their goals were.

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Melinda Lee: Wouldn't be fine.

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Melinda Lee: What did you find at Asana?

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Joshua Zerkel: I found that, generally speaking, people were very excited about community, but they didn't know what they wanted it to do.

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Melinda Lee: Okay.

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Joshua Zerkel: Because most people don't have professional experience.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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Joshua Zerkel: With communities, it's pretty rare. And so the people who had experience with communities at prior roles, they understood. Okay, well, I'd like community to support our marketing efforts by amplifying our messages, or I'd like community to be part of the sales process, so that decision makers can be influenced by people on their teams who are actually using Asana. So some people were able to understand what was possible and others I had to guide. So that's fairly typical, because not everyone has this experience.

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Melinda Lee: Right.

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Joshua Zerkel: But you know, with that information in hand, both from our customers and from internal stakeholders.

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Joshua Zerkel: Then I was able to map out what the program might look like. Just as I mentioned, like, I created the vision for what was possible, and I envisioned a program where we had online conversations via our Forum and via Slack. We had

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Joshua Zerkel: members who really raised their hand and really wanted to participate in an extra way called ambassadors.

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Melinda Lee: Special.

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Joshua Zerkel: Resources and programming for them.

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Melinda Lee: I love that.

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Joshua Zerkel: Created events in person and online to help

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Joshua Zerkel: get people excited, invigorated, and learn together about.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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Joshua Zerkel: Can hear from one another.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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Joshua Zerkel: Couldn't do it all on day one. So we started piece by piece, but we we eventually got to the the bigger vision, and beyond.

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Melinda Lee: Wow! And how do you think it transformed it? What are the results of it? The outcomes.

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Joshua Zerkel: Yeah, the way that I look at it is through the lens of the business and through the lens of participants. So for the business for Asana. I mean it. It resulted in like, if we're talking, looking at hard numbers like there was over a hundred 1 million dollars in pipeline generated from community members, which is.

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Melinda Lee: Nice, certainly think.

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Melinda Lee: There you go. I hope you got a sliver of that a portion, a good portion of that.

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Joshua Zerkel: Yeah, I I feel like very, very proud of that accomplishment. But also the people who participated in our program. They were just more likely to use the product.

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Joshua Zerkel: engage with it and share it with their teams. Which to me, that's the whole point is like we want people using this thing. Can we via community drive them towards that? And as it turns out, we did and we could. Then there's the the lens of

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Joshua Zerkel: the participant. Experience what customers get out of it, and for them

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Joshua Zerkel: them telling me or telling my team. You know, I was able to get a promotion because I became the Sauna expert on my team, and it really showed value to my business. Or I started a consulting business based around Asana because I learned so much in the program, or I'm just able to do my job more easily or more effectively.

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Joshua Zerkel: because I I've learned more about using this tool. And I've heard from other members how they use it. Like to me, that's equally valuable. Because if I don't create that value for people who participate in the program, we won't get any of those business results that I just mentioned. So it's really holding both at the same time and making sure that we're driving towards those goals for everybody.

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Melinda Lee: Wow! That's amazing. That's so fascinating. It's great. I love the way that business is going with this. I think it's it like you said, if you don't do it, you're behind the times. What a great opportunity for to engage many more people beyond what you thought was possible. Not just like you said clients. But

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Melinda Lee: collaborators, partners, you know, clients.

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Melinda Lee: team members and executives. It's just. It's just a beautiful. It's wonderful community.

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Joshua Zerkel: Love it. And I think it speaks to how we are as humans. We like.

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Melinda Lee: Good.

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Joshua Zerkel: Other people. I think business. We forget that at the end of the day we're still dealing with people. Even if you work with a big company. You're not working with the logo. You're working with the people who are there, and community really reintroduces the humanity, the human interaction experience back into what have been very transactional business processes. Not that those are bad or wrong. It's just you need the complement of.

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Joshua Zerkel: Hey, we need to talk to the people. Also, we're not talking to the logo.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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Joshua Zerkel: Love it. And you have a book, right? You're writing a book. Tell us more about it.

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Joshua Zerkel: Yes, I'm in the process of writing a book about community led growth. For me personally, this has been a very long time coming. I've been doing community work for close to 20 years in the community led growth space, and I felt like it was a good opportunity for me to encapsulate my experiences. What I've learned

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Joshua Zerkel: and show people and companies how to do it, because there's no real instruction available for how to create communities. You can't go to school for this sort of information. There are some courses. You can take online. But

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Joshua Zerkel: no, I feel like I have a unique perspective. Having done this for so long. And

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Joshua Zerkel: I'm I'm really happy to be part of getting this information out there and hopefully help more companies build communities, bring together.

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Melinda Lee: Yes, I love it, and I could see your passion around it. I'm definitely going to get the book. How how are we going to find out when your book is launched. Maybe we could. You could email the community. Yeah, how do we get your book out.

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Joshua Zerkel: Yes, thank you.

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Melinda Lee: The notes. I mean, once it's ready, I could definitely put it into the show notes for people who catch the recording later.

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Joshua Zerkel: I appreciate that. Yeah. The easiest way to to stay up to date with what I'm doing is just go to joshuazirkle.com, which will direct you to my Linkedin, which you can follow me there. I post updates there about what I'm doing, what I'm up to. And definitely, when this book is fully birthed, it will be shared very broadly on my Linkedin.

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Melinda Lee: Oh, thank you so much. And can we end with just what? I asked all my guests. What is that one leadership, golden takeaway that you want the audience to remember.

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Joshua Zerkel: Yeah, this is probably no surprise coming from me, based on our conversation. But to me leadership is about listening. I think if you go into conversations as a leader, assuming you know what something is happening for, what is going on, what the next steps should be. You probably shouldn't even show up at all, because you're just really having a conversation with

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Joshua Zerkel: yourself, and as it turns out, you probably don't know everything. I certainly don't. And as a leader. I really look at my job as listening to my stakeholders listening to my team, listening to the customers listening to the people around me who care.

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Joshua Zerkel: so that together we can craft the best decisions for how to move forward if I don't listen, and if I don't help foster conversations, I'm just not doing my job very well, and as a leader I feel like that's really the crux of what we need to do.

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Melinda Lee: I love it. Drop the mic.

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Melinda Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Joshua. So all of you listeners I had. I had a great time. Thank you so much for all your insights on building community leadership. Listening, I trust that the audience got a lot out of it. I certainly did. And so thank you again, Joshua, for being here.

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Joshua Zerkel: My pleasure. Thanks, Melinda, and thanks everyone for listening.

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Melinda Lee: Thank you. Thank you. Audience, and until I see you next time I am your sister in flow, remember, anytime you have a chance to connect, you have an opportunity to inspire and to make an impact in this world. I will see you next time. Much love bye, bye.