Learning to delegate with Sara Menke

Welcome, dear listeners, to the speak and flow podcast, where we dive into unique experiences to help you and your team unleash the power of their voice, achieve maximum potential and flow into opportunities.

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Melinda Lee: Today I am so pleased to introduce Sarah Menke. She's a powerhouse leader, founder of 2 company, not one but 2 premier talent partners.

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Melinda Lee: She's a founder and chair as well as Ajna.

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Melinda Lee: Welcome, Sarah, glad you're here.

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saram: Thank you. I'm so honored to be here.

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Melinda Lee: I'm excited. Today, we're going to dive into

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Melinda Lee: how to remain calm, poised, confident, even in challenging difficult situations. And you, having built 2 businesses know what that's like. And so before we dive into that, can you share with us right now? What are you excited about with your companies right now?

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saram: What I'm most excited about is the opportunity in front of us. With

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saram: the experience of Covid and the economic adjustments, the labor market was significantly impacted. And we, as a team, have navigated this, and we are starting to see a change in the market which is such a blessing

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saram: premier talent partners specifically, is, is a search staffing. And we have an autonomous hiring element. And then, Asian technologies is recruiting technology, and so both have experienced quite a bit of opportunity to.

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saram: as we were discussing, you know, go with the flow of the next

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saram: economic phase. And so yes, our enthusiasm is for the change that we think is coming and

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saram: opportunity for the opportunity for both businesses to.

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saram: I think, move back into a position not the same. There's a song that I really love, and it's it. The title of it is, I'm not who I was and we're not who we were. We're a very different organization than we were.

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saram: Pre Covid, and Covid is over and done, and you know the economic adjustments are starting to or have faded

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saram: thankfully for us. And so it's just about the next step, and it's about the next evolution. And it's

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saram: the opportunity to be a new. I was talking with our head of marketing today. And I said, What

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saram: what blinders do you have on? Do you and your team have on right now?

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saram: Who? Who are you right now that that

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saram: that that maybe has restriction. You know the way that you market us, the way that you present us, and and if you took those off, who might we become.

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Melinda Lee: Hmm.

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saram: Take your team through that exercise as you're finishing 2025.

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saram: Goals right? Because so many of us, you know, carry who we were forward, but.

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Melinda Lee: Oh, yeah.

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saram: What if we, instead, you know, take a step in a unique

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saram: direction, and it can be micro each day. Who might we become.

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Melinda Lee: I love that I love that taking a small step or a giant step, but the 1st is like taking off the walls, taking off the barriers to reimagine, and especially with staffing and technology. I mean, you're at the forefront of the changes that what are you thinking with the AI

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Melinda Lee: being here, and how that is going to affect us in terms of staffing over the next 10 years. I mean, I'd imagine, like companies right now, don't know what they don't know. They're not gonna know what what jobs they need, what I mean, what is your take on this

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Melinda Lee: and how? Yeah, your solution or ideas of moving.

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saram: Yeah, the reason why we built Asia technology, we we sat down. I mean, I you know what Premier is 26 years old. So I mean, I was always on a soapbox talking about for at least 20 of the 26 years.

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saram: The talent shortage and how it's a global pandemic right? And and then I started thinking about and obviously because we staff a lot for technology companies, I started, you know, thinking about wow, you know at some point this technology is going to become smarter and smarter and smarter and smarter. And I didn't know that that was machine learning. And AI at the time. But we did have this conversation about the fact that at some point the recruiting

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saram: staffing

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saram: sector will be fully automated. I mean, how could it? Not? Right? And and that doesn't mean replacing humans a hundred. But automating that process, using technology to

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saram: ensure that vet, that fact check that, you know, there is a skills match to a job right when there's a shortage of talent.

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saram: There's nothing more important than the skills match. Something that we have seen is, you know, even a few years ago there could be a job. And we could have. I mean, some companies were flexible to a 35% match. Most wanted a 58 skills match.

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saram: They would

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saram: train into the role itself. Today, companies are searching for an 85 to 90% skills match because shortage of talent, right and innovation automation, they need

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saram: the exact right person for the role. So to answer your question about AI, we started talking about this, we start, we start talking about the innovation. We then decided to build this recruiting technology that does automate 60% of the process. We, we

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saram: we're able to reduce our fixed expenses, meaning we didn't need as many people. We don't need as many people to do the job that we do anymore. And I, I'm a huge proponent of AI. I I use it. I love it. I do see where it

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saram: simplifies.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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saram: I think it. I mean, I think, that there's equity up.

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saram: I'm a huge proponent of of equitable hiring, and I do believe that that AI in general brings

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saram: equity, because.

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saram: you know, if if you, if you know how to use it, and and everyone does have pretty much have access to it, then

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saram: then it I mean. I know. For example, Chat Gbt will give you a different answer

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saram: frequently, if not all of the time. However, I do believe that it it can also it upskills it can upskill you if you.

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Melinda Lee: Don't worry.

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saram: In the right way. So I think that there's an equitable element to it. And I appreciate that. I'm not worried. I don't think that we, as humans, are going to not be needed anymore. Right?

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saram: But-. But I think most of us appreciate. I would. I would rather go on and

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saram: pay bills through my bank account, then

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saram: have to write a check and or deliver it somewhere, right? So I only see it as beneficial automating the aspects of our life that can be improved by automation.

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Melinda Lee: Oh, my gosh! I need to now I'm like, how did I not live with this.

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saram: Right.

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Melinda Lee: And then and then, yeah, but I really appreciate that. It is true that it does help people. Maybe that don't have the skill sets right now, and if they really understand how to use the power of it, they can't elevate them. I've never thought about it in that way.

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saram: Well, yeah, like I, I have an unseen disability. I'm dyslexic.

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saram: I was in school as a child, right? Being compared to my peers in a learning environment that didn't align with the way my

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saram: processes.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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saram: And it was a constant struggle not to mention the fact

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saram: double time. So I had to go to extra tutoring to be able to learn all these fun things that we learned back then? And had I had access to a tool like this.

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Melinda Lee: Right.

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saram: I I wouldn't have

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saram: experience what I did now, because I experienced what I did. I think that's what's made me even more successful as an individual.

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saram: right? Right?

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saram: Compassionate. More more passionate, more curious, right? Because because I did. I think with struggle comes

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saram: all those things. It's easier for me to to be put into a really difficult situation because I I was raised that way. If that makes sense.

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saram: you know.

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saram: So I don't want to discredit that I love. I love my disability for that reason. Right? But I think there, there are many

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saram: different types of disabilities, and AI can really support, enhance.

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Melinda Lee: Love that I love, that.

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saram: Leveling, yeah.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I see your resilience. I see your courage. You've built 2 businesses, successful ones, and I could see why you're so excited about what's ahead. I also know as a business owner myself that it didn't come from

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Melinda Lee: just pop out of nowhere. So take us back to the time that you had teams, and you didn't know what you're doing.

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Melinda Lee: Things were not going well, just like they always don't like. What was that like to lead a team

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Melinda Lee: that is not in flow or forcing, working really hard, and things are not working. You're not getting what you want.

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Melinda Lee: Was there a time.

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saram: Oh, there were so many! Are you kidding?

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saram: I mean there, it's all you know. It's ever evolving right. The team.

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saram: of course, is is the best of the best of the best, and I will say that Premier wouldn't be who it is or where it is, if it wasn't for all of the other teams, and I think that it was less about the teams not being cohesive and more about me as a leader.

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Melinda Lee: Me!

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saram: You know it was. It was my, you know, the the company and my people, you know. They went through the phases of growth that I went through right. And and I think that that's true about any leader. And so so I don't know that I would say that it was that it wasn't about them. It was more about me right? I was growing up. We grew up together, and and so in the beginning

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saram: I'd never run a business before I was. I was a recruiter, and I was incredibly impactful and very successful as a recruiter. And I just thought, Oh, I'm gonna you know, hang my little shingle, which is what I did. And you know, I and and and and and people like me. So people wanted to come and work with me and

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saram: it just kind of grew. And and what we all realized over time was how how challenging it can be to to work with a leader who who's self made right? So gosh! I mean, there were many different

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saram: specific challenges that we faced.

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Melinda Lee: What was one that you learned that was most difficult. And yet maybe you even regret, or maybe you don't. But then, also that taught you a lot. What was one.

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saram: The the greater theme is the idea of multitasking.

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Melinda Lee: Hmm.

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saram: And

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saram: Someone shared with me a quote they said, Confu Confucius, as you know.

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saram: the man who chases 2 chickens catches none.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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saram: Would say that the the the greatest

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saram: learning opportunity that I've experienced is

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saram: running 2 companies and thinking that thinking that that that was possible.

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saram: Because what what happened as a result of it is

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saram: when you're you know, I was spread thin. And

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saram: so not only, you know, I was spread thin, and and I can do it right.

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saram: But then it required my leadership to also be spread right, and they didn't get a hundred.

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saram: I I couldn't lead both a hundred percent. So.

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saram: There were times where one got 30 and one got 70, and you know one got 10 and one got, you know, 90, and.

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saram: And so there was a you know. It was

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saram: because of me, and it wasn't a solo decision that that there was a compromise of the businesses, and I do think that. And that was pre pre covid. We were screaming up a mountain right. Premier was doing.

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Melinda Lee: It's taken off.

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saram: Was doing its thing. Covid hit and slam, and it was it. It would have

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saram: been better. Maybe. I don't know actually but I think in retrospect, had I been running only one of the 2 maybe

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saram: both of them wouldn't have had the experience that they did.

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saram: And that's not true, because it's the labor market in general, but they wouldn't have it that had the experience that they did, which was to take a lump and take a lump and take a lump and take a lump and

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saram: It wasn't because of my teams, I mean, all of our people were the best of the best, and I can say that confidently. I mean my our teams were better than any other teams out there. And everyone who

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saram: almost I mean. I don't know where everyone is anymore, right? But most of the people, if not all, of the people that worked at Premier, left Premier better than they than when they came to premiere premiere has spawned so many very successful staffing agencies also. So people that worked here that were trained here have gone on to start their own companies and employ people, and

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saram: so on and so forth. So it's been incredible. But I will say the biggest, probably the biggest mistake I've made in my career was chasing these 2 chickens.

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saram: and when we were faced with the economic adjustment post pandemic

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saram: there was, I think, more catch up that I needed to do, and had I not.

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Melinda Lee: Oh!

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saram: Had I, had I been running one of the 2 maybe there would have been less less

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saram: fall, and and and so therefore less climb after the fact.

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Melinda Lee: Would it? Would it have helped to build the leadership up to where you felt like they could

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Melinda Lee: be cohesive and stand alone, and then spawn it off

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Melinda Lee: and go to the next one afterwards later, and it.

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saram: Well, they they were, and they did, they.

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Melinda Lee: Oh!

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saram: They were, I mean, premiere is not run by me. I I mean, I have teams that run all the different facets of premiere. So it's not. It's not. It's not that so much as

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saram: I am. I'm the lead

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saram: strategist, right? So when the lead strategist, who was who was always at the helm, looking for the icebergs right.

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Melinda Lee: Hmm.

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saram: And could, would, could see it far, you know. Great eyesight very clear. You know. Laser Focus could navigate when that person that position left. Everybody else was. I mean there was you know. The captain was at the at where he was supposed to be.

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Melinda Lee: Right.

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saram: Was was where they were supposed to be, you know, at all the levels. But the strategist, the one who's like really sitting above all was sitting above 2 companies, and.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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saram: That's hard for any company, right? You need. You need that lead, all of them.

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saram: And I now know that had my people, had I not spread myself.

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saram: We would have still experienced some of what we experienced, but I think.

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Melinda Lee: I think less.

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Melinda Lee: But what what point do you say? Okay, this is premieres, where it needs to be.

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saram: Hmm.

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Melinda Lee: And then then you start the second company.

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saram: Well.

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saram: I wasn't running. I I mean. So again, I'm I was the. I'm the creative. I'm so I'm the I'm the idea person. I'm the strategist. I'm the one who I am. Often also the black hat I'm and that is really hard for my people, because I

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saram: poke holes and things, and.

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Melinda Lee: It's like what would have been better.

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saram: I did it. I thought, I, because I transitioned to a president. And yeah, I did.

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saram: That was running.

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Melinda Lee: Oh, my gosh, that's true.

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Melinda Lee: Okay.

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saram: It's that.

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Melinda Lee: It's still.

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saram: It's still this person.

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Melinda Lee: I don't know. Yeah, that's I don't. Maybe you need more of you. I don't. That's so difficult. That's a difficult situation. Yeah.

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saram: What's better is to is to maybe not have a pandemic, and then, you know, forced.

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saram: You're funny.

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Melinda Lee: You know

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Melinda Lee: economic adjustment. As a result of it I will tell you that this has been the most.

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saram: I've learned the most. It's been the most challenging.

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saram: And I if I if I could do it again, I would not.

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saram: I actually had an opportunity to sell my business before, like, right before the pandemic. And I didn't do it. And I didn't do it because I because my people are so amazing.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah.

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saram: I had the best people, the best leaders, every everyone is a master in their role. They're so good and

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saram: and every day when I reflect on my day, what really gets me is that there's I'm

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saram: I never ha take enough time to be specifically

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saram: grateful right? I could be better at at saying to each individual

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saram: how valuable they are to me. And you know that is a big takeaway every day. Right is.

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saram: I'm just so. I'm so thankful.

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Melinda Lee: I'm just holding.

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saram: I'm only I'm only where I am and who I am because of the people.

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Melinda Lee: Oh, well, hopefully, they'll hear this tonight today

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Melinda Lee: that you're so grateful and I can feel it. I can feel the sincerity, the genuineness, the gratitude. And yeah, and then that's why they they will go with you to extreme lengths

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Melinda Lee: to support you because of who you are as a leader. Yeah.

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saram: Yeah.

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Melinda Lee: So tell me about your teams. Now, this year you set out to do something which is admirable, which is, you know, when there are these economic downturns and variables that are beyond our control? A lot of times we will go into contraction or fight or fear. And like, there's a lot of different reactions that we can have. But this year you decided that even if there's these things that are

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Melinda Lee: that you don't like or that are out of your control. You decided you wanted to just be more grounded

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Melinda Lee: and not have such a big reaction. What's that been like? And what's that impact to your team?

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saram: It. Some of some of the

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saram: results have been challenging. Very challenging for the team. Right? My, but my teams are. They're so

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saram: resilient. We've been through a lot together

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saram: even before. Right? We we we had

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saram: growth like this, you know. We were. We were on the back of horses, you know, trying just to hold on going up a mountain for so long.

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saram: So we've we've always had something that was challenging us right.

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saram: So I guess I would say that to today.

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saram: My teams are, you know, better than

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saram: better than I ever was, and I think I think that as a leader.

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saram: you know, our our primary responsibility is to is to make sure that our people are successful, and my goal has always been to

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saram: to to surround myself with people that are better than me and and

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saram: And so I actually did that this year I replaced myself with a very just, incredible amazing

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saram: CEO and

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saram: And unfortunately she's not with us right now, but my my work is to get her back.

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saram: And it was. That's you know, that's a decision that that had to be made without a motion

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saram: and without reaction.

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saram: And it was very difficult because it was emotional for everybody else around me.

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saram: And so my focus on

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saram: not reacting and understanding that you.

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saram: being okay, making difficult decisions.

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saram: I think, has helped the company navigate through that and every every. It is everyone's goal ideally to.

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saram: Get this person back? Because she was. She is the right person.

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saram: To be, you know, in the day to day. And and what have you? So? I don't know if I if that answered your question, and

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saram: and again, you know, I've meant mentioned that I'm strategist. I mean I'm i i'm so blessed. I was married to a man who

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saram: taught me to act fast.

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Melinda Lee: And.

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saram: So

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saram: I don't have a problem doing that. Even when I don't have a problem making difficult decisions, even when it may impact people. I I will make it with integrity 100% of the time. And and I've had to do that for premiere and and

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saram: And

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saram: you know I did it. I thank God I did it. Thank God, we did it when we did right. And we've navigated. We've shifted and we've turned and like, I said. We're, you know we're we're on. We're on the path that we that we want beyond. Now.

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Melinda Lee: Hmm! Oh, my!

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saram: Comfortable growing, you know, and that's amazing for a staffing firm in this market, too. So.

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Melinda Lee: That's so amazing. That's, you know, congratulations, kudos to you, the resilience and everything that you've been through, that you all been through and continue to go through and navigate and

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Melinda Lee: and still be together.

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Melinda Lee: Most teams would break.

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saram: Yeah, totally. And our teams haven't. And and it's because

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saram: and and the reason why they haven't is because

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saram: we're we're really we're vulnerable with one another.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, it's from you.

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Melinda Lee: And and it's to you, yeah.

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saram: We learn, we learn together.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah.

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saram: And and we, you know, and like.

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saram: like they can laugh at me. And and

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saram: and that's important. I laugh at myself right? Oh, my gosh, you're right. I said I wasn't gonna answer the questions anymore. I'm gonna ask you the question back. You know all these tiny little things we like, give each other grace. We guide each other in a really respectful way. And like, I said, you know, everyone here

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saram: runs the company in in their role. There's very, very strong role ownership here.

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Melinda Lee: So, yeah, so do you still feel like you're like chasing 2 chickens right now? Like, what

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Melinda Lee: like, how have you managed? Is it because you bought you bought in someone to lead like, what did? How did you? Yeah, now?

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Melinda Lee: Well, I sh! I I.

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saram: I

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saram: I have Arjuna sitting right here, you know, as I always tell people, I have it on a shelf, and they're like, What do you mean?

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saram: And we're we're in the process of just polishing a couple little things, then.

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saram: Yes, I'm giving it to someone else to take it to market.

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Melinda Lee: And it's.

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saram: You know, the polishing that we're doing is because we were in the market, and we received consistent feedback about what might be points of friction with the technology. So we're we made the decision to go back and fix those points of friction so that when this individual takes it to market. It will have no points of friction.

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Melinda Lee: got it?

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saram: I I'm not interested in, you know, I said. I'm not interested in making it happen

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saram: when I'm fighting a fight, when I know that there's a solution to it, right? I don't know. There might be elements of perfection in that like. Oh, it has to be perfect. It's not about it being perfect. It's just

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saram: I'm not interested in my number. One value is is integrity. I I can't tell you that it can do all these things. If it can't do all these things, it has to do all the things. And so I'm gonna make sure that it does all the things. And then when I come to you, I say it does all things, and you try it, and it does all the things.

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saram: Huh?

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saram: Then we don't have to talk about it, and it could be easy, and I'm like.

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Melinda Lee: and and you can only get that sense of clarity of groundedness of being there right when you know to tweak or to not to tweak only because you're focused. It sounds like, I mean, when you're focused, you feel more focused. Otherwise. If you're doing 2 separate companies and 2 different things you move from

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Melinda Lee: having that terrible experience of

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Melinda Lee: of what running to companies chasing and not, you know, hot, you know, just having a lot of repercussion from that. And now to this

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Melinda Lee: feeling, more focused.

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saram: Yeah, so that business is there. And we, it is.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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saram: It does do it.

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saram: Yeah, right?

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saram: But it's it's it's almost like.

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saram: you know, it's it's just. It's like a, you know, an aircraft carrier is like in its little.

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saram: You know, it's getting a paint job. And right.

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saram: the technology is, it's it's a you know. It's a multi-tenant saas tool. And it's being used and.

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Melinda Lee: Cool time we add to it.

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saram: Obviously, the the users benefit from it. Right? It's amazing. But yeah, it doesn't require a lot of day to day. And when it requires time. It's

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saram: There are different people that that fill the roles, right?

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saram: That. And and so I'm a part of that. But it doesn't distract from them the work that I can do at Premier. And again, the work that I do is a lot of that. It's the high level. It's the innovation. It's it's it's related to brand the brand. It is new lines of business, it's

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saram: and then it's fact, checking all of that.

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Melinda Lee: powerful, powerful. It feels grounded, it feels so clear.

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saram: Okay. Thanks.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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saram: After this 10 years, right?

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Melinda Lee: Inspiring. And yet there's more to go. There's more to go right. And so can you share with our audience what is that one leadership golden takeaway

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Melinda Lee: that you'd like for us to remember.

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saram: Hmm!

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saram: Leader should take away

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saram: Think it's

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saram: you know you let your people lead.

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saram: Let your people lead.

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Melinda Lee: Hmm.

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saram: It's hard as a leader, because you often feel like you know, and I

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saram: guilty of that because I've done this for so long, right.

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saram: But every single time I remember and I take a step back I'm

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saram: I'm humbled, and I'm humbled like I'm I'm humbled to a place of it's it's it's joy

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saram: and maybe embarrassment right? And the joy is well, seeing how

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saram: in you know how many people show up and deliver every time better

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saram: better than I think I than I. I think I would have, and then, embarrassed because

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saram: I'm the one who was stepping in the way I'm the one who was in the way

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saram: I'm like. Oh, my gosh! How could I have?

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saram: Oh.

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saram: life could have been so much more easier if I would have just moved out of the way, you know.

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saram: So let your people lead.

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Melinda Lee: Wow! And yes, like you said, it's not going to be, per. There's never any perfection. There's we can't get perfect. But when you start to allow them to build that confidence of leading right. But they already had it. They had it within them. You're building you. You have brought in amazing people

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Melinda Lee: and amazing leaders have amazing people. And then, so now I'll let them lead.

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saram: Let them, lead.

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Melinda Lee: Let them, lead.

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saram: Hmm.

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Melinda Lee: Because Sarah has other things to do that she'd rather be doing.

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saram: Or do nothing. Sarah would.

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Melinda Lee: We're doing nothing.

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Melinda Lee: Then.

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Melinda Lee: Exactly. Thank you. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Thank you so much, Sarah, for taking us down the journey of where you've been, the difficulties, the challenges that you've had that were so uncomfortable and incredible, but then also inspiring, that led you to the successful place

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Melinda Lee: successful companies. With amazing teams through your leadership. And I really, what I've taken away is that yeah, you, as a leader, has have brought them through all these things. But yet through all these things, they've built resilience, and they're still with you. And and that's amazing. So congratulations. I'm truly inspired.

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saram: Thank you.

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Melinda Lee: Well, thank you, Sarah, and thank you. Audience, for being here. I trust that you've got your golden takeaways and nuggets that you can implement right away in your day, and if you need any support with recruitment, with talent, with technologies around recruitment and technology, recruitment and talent

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Melinda Lee: reach out to Sarah. She knows her stuff, and she's at the forefront of all of this. So her contact information is in the show notes, and so thank you so much until next time. I'm your sister in flow. May prosperity flow to you and through you, and

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Melinda Lee: so that you can make a bigger difference in our communities. Thank you.

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Melinda Lee: Bye, alright.