Learn Why Saying NO Provides Freedom And Opens New Boundaries For Greater Success

Melinda Lee: 00:00:05

Hello, welcome to the Speak In Flow podcast today

Melinda Lee: 00:00:09

I have Hanna Bankier. Hannah and I met several years ago at

Melinda Lee: 00:00:14

graduate school, we were in school to get University. And

Melinda Lee: 00:00:18

she walked in, she always said something bright, smart, fun to

Melinda Lee: 00:00:21

say, and the dark chocolate.

Melinda Lee: 00:00:24

I told her, you remember that. And so we both got our masters

Melinda Lee: 00:00:27

of industrial psychology together. And I brought her on

Melinda Lee: 00:00:31

because she's just full of insight. She started her Working

Melinda Lee: 00:00:35

Solutions Group. She's a founder, CEO now and she has so

Melinda Lee: 00:00:39

much wisdom and expertise to share, especially around saying

Melinda Lee: 00:00:43

no, so most of us think we're unleashing our voice. And so we

Melinda Lee: 00:00:46

got to speak more. And that also comes with how to say no, and so

Melinda Lee: 00:00:51

she's going to share with us some of her expertise. And

Melinda Lee: 00:00:54

before we get into that, Hannah, can you just tell us a little

Melinda Lee: 00:00:57

bit more about your, what you do with Working Solutions Group?

Melinda Lee: 00:01:01

And what are you passionate about?

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:04

Absolutely, thank you. Yeah, I love being part of

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:08

people's journey where they find their voices when they get

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:12

aligned with their values where they get to live their purpose.

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:16

And I call it connecting people to possibilities and exploring

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:20

your potential. And I do that in a few different ways. So I do it

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:24

as an executive coach, where we I work one on one with people, I

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:27

go into organisations, and I do organisation development work,

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:31

hold a bunch of workshops. I am a content creator, I have online

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:36

courses, and I'm also a speaker. So I speak on topics like

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:40

feedback is a gift or hack your mind or conflict is a feature

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:47

not a bug, or the topic that we're talking about today. No is

Hanna Bankier: 00:01:51

a complete

Melinda Lee: 00:01:51

sentence. Well, let's dive right in. No is a

Melinda Lee: 00:01:55

complete sentence and why is it what is a reason? What is

Melinda Lee: 00:02:00

important about saying no. Especially in our world,

Melinda Lee: 00:02:03

everybody's used to saying yes, and we're celebrating SS.

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:07

Well, there's there's a lot to unpack. There's

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:10

the socialisation that primarily as women have been, you know,

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:14

fed into we've been trained to be people pleasers and saying

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:17

yes, and taking on the brunt of people's baggage, I say like put

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:22

down your bag these bags, they are not yours to carry. And the

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:26

power and the wisdom of the saying no isn't to become a

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:29

naysayer, we're not looking to say no, no, just to say no. But

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:34

rather that no is your vehicle for more? Yes. Like what did you

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:39

want to say? Yes, to what? And whom do you want to be doing?

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:43

Who do you want to surround yourself with? Where do you want

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:45

to spend your time and your energy? Because that feeds

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:49

that's your life before. And it's easy to get bogged down and

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:53

like automatically saying yes to this and saying yesterday, maybe

Hanna Bankier: 00:02:57

you want to be in charge of your kids at schools bake sales for

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:01

the fifth year in a row. And maybe you rather being used

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:05

ceramics studio, or maybe you want to help a friend putting

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:09

together their birthday party, because that feels connected.

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:11

And that's really juicy for you. And maybe use that to just show

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:15

up as a guest. Like we have more choice than we think. And one of

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:20

the cruxes that we believe often that we just have to say yes.

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:25

What are people going to think? For me and my journey? I used to

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:29

be a yes, they are too. And I felt like that was in my power.

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:32

And I could do it all and I can work 5060 hour work weeks and

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:36

have a husband who was on the road 10 days of mines and be

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:39

home with two little kids and like bring it and I thought that

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:42

was my power. And I really no come to realise that's not my

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:45

power. My power is Yeah, I was exhausted. I realised I was

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:54

exhausted and started impacting my house. And I also realised

Hanna Bankier: 00:03:58

that long term it didn't serve us as a family. So I started

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:04

handing out pink slips to my family and saying I no longer

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:08

theory, I will not keep track of all things and all you know,

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:11

where are you going to be? Have you brought your cleats? What's

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:14

your homework for tomorrow? When a soccer practice and I started

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:18

saying, Here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna make that

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:22

information readily available to you and then I need you to go

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:25

find it. So it was hard for me, right? I am one of those kids

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:30

that in class back in the day, like, Do you know the answer?

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:33

I'm gonna say me, me I know. But now I realised that if I always

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:41

have the answer, I'm not teaching them to have the

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:45

answer. So it was also really, really hard. Yes, I'm sure

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:50

identity. That's been my autopilot. Yes, default setting.

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:55

But I realised that I wasn't going to move into college with

Hanna Bankier: 00:04:59

my kids at Don't think they wanted, I don't want it. So they

Hanna Bankier: 00:05:02

need to get these and start flexing these muscles on their

Hanna Bankier: 00:05:05

own. For the next time they came, and they were my cleats.

Hanna Bankier: 00:05:08

And I'm like, I'm not serious. I don't know, why have you looked

Hanna Bankier: 00:05:12

and really had a back the responsibility where it belongs.

Hanna Bankier: 00:05:17

And it turns out to be a win win situation for our family,

Hanna Bankier: 00:05:21

because these are alignment with my parenting values, and they

Hanna Bankier: 00:05:24

got to start flexing their muscles. And I got some of my

Hanna Bankier: 00:05:27

time and my energy back.

Melinda Lee: 00:05:29

Right? Well, this, you said something really key

Melinda Lee: 00:05:31

here, because that was your identity, right? having all the

Melinda Lee: 00:05:34

answers being the mom that could do it all. And, and you could

Melinda Lee: 00:05:38

and you can, it's almost it's an identity. And so I can relate to

Melinda Lee: 00:05:44

that. And I, I know that there's a lot of people out there right

Melinda Lee: 00:05:47

now who they are so capable, they're leaders in their field,

Melinda Lee: 00:05:51

they're leaders in the organisation, and it becomes an

Melinda Lee: 00:05:53

identity that you can do it all. And then so and then, but for

Melinda Lee: 00:05:57

you had to like some health issues started to come up.

Melinda Lee: 00:06:00

Right. And so what can we do? What are some of the key

Melinda Lee: 00:06:02

challenges? That it is like? How do the challenges of letting go

Melinda Lee: 00:06:07

this identity? Or why is what is the reason why it's so

Melinda Lee: 00:06:11

challenging? Let's just

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:13

melted into many, many reasons. Yeah. And for me,

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:16

I think the identity is a huge part. And I you know, I refer to

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:20

myself as a recovering type A, I used to be very, very

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:24

controlling. And part of that was I needed to let go of that

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:27

control, to get other people to step in in that place. So when

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:33

it comes to learning, flexing your your no muscles and learn

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:37

to start doing that. There's a lot of things that come up. And

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:40

some of the reasons why it's so hard to say no, it could be that

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:44

we've been socialised into saying yes, and where people

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:46

pleasers could be the word control freaks. And I know how

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:49

to do it better than you anyway. So I might as well do it on my

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:52

own. It could be I'm really afraid of the reaction or the

Hanna Bankier: 00:06:58

response. What happens if I say no, it could be that I feel

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:02

guilty, which is, you know, a whole whole could be a podcast

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:05

on its own about the misplaced guilt that we often feel. And so

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:10

there's a lot of different reasons why, why it's hard to

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:14

say no. And I think that's where we really have to take a step

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:18

back and looking at I'm not saying no, again, to just say

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:21

no, I'm saying no, to be able to say more, yes. But when we're

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:26

not clear on what we want to say yes to, then it's so easy to get

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:32

stuck in this, oh, I'll just do it by autopilot, it's becomes

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:35

the default setting. I've one of my clients. That's how she, she

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:39

describes it. She's like, it's my default setting. I just say

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:42

yes. I don't stop. I don't pop. I don't feel like is this gonna

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:50

be good for me? Am I feeling complete and directed by this

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:54

app that came to me? And I'm just going to push through? So I

Hanna Bankier: 00:07:59

think there's a lot of that identity piece of who am I in

Hanna Bankier: 00:08:04

this world? Who do I want to be? And for me, there was a lot

Hanna Bankier: 00:08:09

about the external validation. I was the good girl, oh, my God, I

Hanna Bankier: 00:08:14

can do it all. And I thrived upon that external validation.

Hanna Bankier: 00:08:20

And now that's what gets my juices going anymore.

Melinda Lee: 00:08:23

Well, what if they're in the organisation,

Melinda Lee: 00:08:25

many of the audience members here are in organisations or

Melinda Lee: 00:08:29

corporate leaders. And it's they just keep on getting piled and

Melinda Lee: 00:08:32

piled and piled to so many projects, because they're very

Melinda Lee: 00:08:36

capable. And it has become their identity, where they're capable

Melinda Lee: 00:08:39

leaders, and then they feel suddenly overwhelmed. Because

Melinda Lee: 00:08:43

they're doing they're working really hard. And then someone

Melinda Lee: 00:08:45

comes in says, Why didn't you do this? How come you didn't get

Melinda Lee: 00:08:48

this done? And then, then it becomes a huge problem, because

Melinda Lee: 00:08:53

they can't say no, because they've had this identity of

Melinda Lee: 00:08:55

saying, yes. And then have you ever experienced that? Or?

Hanna Bankier: 00:08:59

Yeah, for sure. And I think this idea that what

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:02

you're saying is they can't say no. If it's a false sense, yeah.

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:10

Because we have so much more choice than we think. Right? And

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:14

we're feeding into this image of, I can take on more, or this

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:20

is what I do, okay? It's what you do also, right, but it

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:25

doesn't have to be all that you are, right? It could be like,

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:28

Okay, I'm really going to excel. And I'm going to take on these

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:31

things. Because if you talk about the work setting, these

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:35

are the places that's going to take me to where I want to go in

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:38

my career. So I'm going to lean into those and I'm going to take

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:42

that on and there's going to be other things where I'm not the

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:45

best person for this. Right? Because I have capacity doesn't

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:49

mean that that's where I'm my highest best self. Right, right.

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:53

Or we can flip it and say if I continuously take on and do all

Hanna Bankier: 00:09:58

of these things, who else is not And I'm getting a chance to do

Hanna Bankier: 00:10:01

it.

Melinda Lee: 00:10:01

Right, right. Like you said, people don't sit down

Melinda Lee: 00:10:04

and really think about what am I saying yes to. They're really

Melinda Lee: 00:10:08

they're just feeding into this vicious cycle really not

Melinda Lee: 00:10:10

thinking because they're just going, going going. And so

Melinda Lee: 00:10:13

pausing and thinking about what is the strategic? What makes the

Melinda Lee: 00:10:18

most sense, like who am I? What what projects will cultivate the

Melinda Lee: 00:10:23

strengths that I want to bring out? Is that right?

Hanna Bankier: 00:10:27

Yeah, absolutely. Who am I in this time? In this

Hanna Bankier: 00:10:31

context? Uh huh. All right, I might be a different version and

Hanna Bankier: 00:10:35

more in game to take on things when it has to do with my kids,

Hanna Bankier: 00:10:39

then I might be at work or the wife Versa, or with my extended

Hanna Bankier: 00:10:42

family, or in my community, or my spiritual setting, whatever

Hanna Bankier: 00:10:46

that is. And it's like, okay, this is what I want to do right

Hanna Bankier: 00:10:50

here, right now, in this chapter of my life. And it doesn't mean

Hanna Bankier: 00:10:54

it's like that forever. You can, you know, write your next

Hanna Bankier: 00:10:58

chapter, you can switch, you can take another storyline, and you

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:01

can grow here. But this idea that we don't have choice and

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:06

really want to challenge, we have so much more choice than we

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:09

believe. And I think what most of us forget that you are

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:13

ultimately the CEO in your life. Right? Right. You decide, I love

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:19

that. And is there fear coming up? What happens? If I say no?

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:23

Am I gonna get punished? Are they not gonna like me, and this

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:26

is where I go back to FOMO, that fear of people's other people's

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:30

opinions, there's really none of your business. You are not

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:36

responsible for their reaction, you're not responsible for their

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:40

emotional response. If they have work to do if somebody gets

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:43

angry at you. Okay, they have work to do. That's not how we

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:47

conduct ourselves in a professional setting. Right? And

Hanna Bankier: 00:11:51

that's not your responsibility.

Melinda Lee: 00:11:53

Right? Right. There is their emotion, their anger,

Melinda Lee: 00:11:57

because they're frustrated for Whatever their reasons are. And

Melinda Lee: 00:12:00

I love that you're the CEO of your own life. And you're the

Melinda Lee: 00:12:04

CEO of your own feelings and your reactions to what they're

Melinda Lee: 00:12:08

bringing to you or what's coming around and what's going on in

Melinda Lee: 00:12:11

the world. Right. There's a lot going on. And so you ultimately

Melinda Lee: 00:12:14

have the choice of your reaction, your feelings, and the

Melinda Lee: 00:12:19

choice of whether to take things on or not because of yourself,

Melinda Lee: 00:12:22

and listening to your body. Right? I mean, because you said,

Melinda Lee: 00:12:26

you had to go through some health issues. And you know, and

Melinda Lee: 00:12:29

so I think a lot of people don't take the time to really listen

Melinda Lee: 00:12:32

to also to what is my body saying in this,

Hanna Bankier: 00:12:36

that know your body communicates with you all

Hanna Bankier: 00:12:39

the time, right? If your back hurts, or if you're constantly

Hanna Bankier: 00:12:42

walking around with a headache, or like, it's telling you

Hanna Bankier: 00:12:44

something, it's not in alignment, something's off

Hanna Bankier: 00:12:47

quarterly, you're either not living according to your values,

Hanna Bankier: 00:12:51

or you're stretching yourself your battery's drain, if you

Hanna Bankier: 00:12:54

don't sleep well, and you wake up in the morning, it's like

Hanna Bankier: 00:12:58

grabbing your cell phone, and you start with 70% battery in

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:00

the morning, right? If that was your phone, you would be like,

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:04

Oh, no, I'm not going to tolerate that. But when it comes

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:08

to you, right, you start off at 70%. At the end of the day, you

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:12

come home, you spend time with your family, your loved ones,

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:15

this can not be a lot left. Right? So this really being

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:21

mindful of who and what is going to get your time and your energy

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:27

today. And how do I take care of me? So I have time and energy

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:31

for the things that really matter to me.

Melinda Lee: 00:13:34

How do you help people identify how do people

Melinda Lee: 00:13:36

start to identify what matters to them?

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:38

Yeah, that's that's so crucial. Like when I

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:41

walked through this process, I started with that with a why,

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:43

you know, why is it so hard to say? No, like recognising your

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:47

pattern? Is it because I'm a people pleaser? Is it because

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:50

I'm a No at all? Is it like, what is it? And then we go into

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:53

the why? And we really spend time identifying what brings you

Hanna Bankier: 00:13:59

joy? If you were to remove everybody else's opinions, and

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:03

if you were to do it, like what is it that you really want to

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:06

say yes to? Do you want to go hiking every Sunday morning? Do

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:11

you want to be in this relationship? Do you want to

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:14

spend time with this person? Do you want to go for the

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:17

promotion? Like what do you want? What's your lifeforce?

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:20

What's your juice, like? And then we're looking at like, okay

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:25

to get to that. There needs to be some shifts. Right? And are

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:30

you ready to make those chairs? Pretend to just be where you are

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:36

today. Maybe you're fine. Maybe you just decide like, I don't

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:40

want to make this shift. And then just own that. If your

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:44

content and be content, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong,

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:46

right. This is your life. I want to set you up for success.

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:49

Right? So we go through the why the why and then we dive into

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:53

the how and really these strategies like how do I start

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:56

flexing these muscles and I think that is crucial.

Hanna Bankier: 00:14:59

Understanding, we're not going to flick flip a switch here.

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:06

Right? These are muscles, I call them the no muscles. So most of

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:10

us have not engaged since we were like maybe two or three

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:12

years old. Right? Anybody spending time with their

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:15

toddler? No, they have no problem using their no muscles,

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:18

right? You want to put PJs on? No, you want to eat your piece?

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:22

No. And then as we grow older, we lose, those muscles just

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:27

atrophy and we don't use them. So nobody would go to the gym

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:33

once and expect to walk out with a six pack. And I think it's

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:38

much like to come to flexing those diets, right? When it

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:41

comes to flexing those no muscles is like, yeah, it's

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:44

little by little, and you're going to see incremental change,

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:47

and you're going to try out maybe low stakes thing, you

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:50

notice something or somebody where it doesn't feel super,

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:54

super scary, right? And then you're gonna wrap it and you're

Hanna Bankier: 00:15:57

gonna find your voice. And you're gonna be like, This is

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:02

what I want this congruent with me. And it might be something

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:07

that I am really passionate about, like, I love to dance,

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:10

okay, you don't have to go dancing, right? But that's

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:12

what's important to me. And we're all unique individuals,

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:15

and we all have our values, we all have our priorities. So

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:19

allowing ourselves realising what happens if I don't say no.

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:26

I'm going to continue being in the space where I'm not content.

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:30

And I feel drained and depleted and overwhelmed and exhausted.

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:35

And if we can switch that to a place of ease, and well being

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:41

keeping your sanity, like not running yourself ragged. And

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:45

just like that is that is your life. And you can have that for

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:50

the rest of your life. If you start making those switches

Hanna Bankier: 00:16:53

right now.

Melinda Lee: 00:16:55

What if, for me, I'm thinking about I want to

Melinda Lee: 00:16:58

take more vacations, I don't take enough vacations. And I

Melinda Lee: 00:17:01

also thinking there's a conflict because if I take too many

Melinda Lee: 00:17:04

vacations, I'm spending more money, and then I'm not working

Melinda Lee: 00:17:07

on my business and I'm losing money there. What do you do when

Melinda Lee: 00:17:10

there's a there's a fear, I'm going to lose the something over

Melinda Lee: 00:17:14

here. And usually when you're saying yes to something, you're

Melinda Lee: 00:17:16

you are losing something, you're saying no to something. So I'm

Melinda Lee: 00:17:19

saying no to my work, which equates to money in the bank?

Melinda Lee: 00:17:22

What what do you do with that?

Hanna Bankier: 00:17:24

Yeah, it's so true. You're totally right on,

Hanna Bankier: 00:17:27

like, by saying yes to something we say no to something else. And

Hanna Bankier: 00:17:31

you know, we have 24 hours, all of us every day, it's not 32

Hanna Bankier: 00:17:35

It's not 28. It's the same 24. So where and how do I want to

Hanna Bankier: 00:17:39

spend that? And I think in this particular example that you're

Hanna Bankier: 00:17:43

bringing forth is what kind of occasion and or rather like, how

Hanna Bankier: 00:17:48

do you restore and rejuvenate and rest? And is that an

Hanna Bankier: 00:17:53

everyday? Is that making sure that the weekends are protected?

Hanna Bankier: 00:17:59

Is that three weeks in Bali? Like what does that look like?

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:03

And how can you then figure out because there's this natural

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:08

tension between I want the restore and rejuvenation, and I

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:12

want the financial safety? And how, what's the hierarchy there?

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:18

And it doesn't become an either or becomes a both? And so is it

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:24

worth for you to put in like three weeks of 60 hour work

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:27

weeks and run yourself ragged to then be able to take a week

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:30

vacation? And is that then actually giving you the

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:34

restorative riveting rejuvenation that you're looking

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:37

for? Are you just so exhausted that when you come home from

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:40

your vacation, you need another week because, you know, the

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:43

runway is is off? So it's about finding that, you know, I have

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:49

mixed feelings about work life balance, but I would say work

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:52

like integration. And how do you get the restorative? And how do

Hanna Bankier: 00:18:58

you get the financial security because when you're stressing

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:01

about money, it's very hard to rely. Right? So in this in your

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:08

particular case, I would say what's the hierarchy? And is it

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:11

about saving up time and money to be able to do one long trip a

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:15

year? Or is it to take every other Friday off or let it get a

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:19

long weekend and measuring that and I think there are times when

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:22

we do little spreads and work and especially as a business

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:25

owner, you do your spreads your nose down, and you're focused

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:29

like like a laser beam and you just do it, but that's not

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:32

sustainable to do for months and months or years on end. So

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:37

figuring out that ebb and flow and then also, which is

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:42

something I really admired what you do really well is this,

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:45

trusting the process. It is there and it's gonna come and if

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:52

you take, you know, a Friday off, that's not going to derail

Hanna Bankier: 00:19:57

the path that you're on or the impact that you're have a right

Hanna Bankier: 00:20:01

it's there. Oh, yeah, be fine.

Melinda Lee: 00:20:04

I'm in full belief. And the interesting thing is

Melinda Lee: 00:20:06

when I used to run myself ragged and keep on pushing, pushing,

Melinda Lee: 00:20:09

pushing, I noticed that not only am I exhausted, I don't know,

Melinda Lee: 00:20:14

yeah, I'm not sure if it really got me faster, quicker. And then

Melinda Lee: 00:20:19

I realised that when I do pause, I do allow for spaciousness. In

Melinda Lee: 00:20:25

just allowing the fruits of my labour, I just did an XYZ for

Melinda Lee: 00:20:29

two weeks. A lot of times the results come in the following

Melinda Lee: 00:20:33

week, oh, people are calling me the right people are calling me

Melinda Lee: 00:20:36

like allowing for that to just happen. And that's what as

Melinda Lee: 00:20:39

women, we need, like we will receive it, we receive the magic

Melinda Lee: 00:20:42

or we receive the opportunities and being more open to that,

Melinda Lee: 00:20:46

because I think going back to just how we've been conditioned,

Melinda Lee: 00:20:49

is always pushing, pushing, pushing, and what we want to

Melinda Lee: 00:20:54

start to help people understand a shift. And I believe that too,

Melinda Lee: 00:20:57

even with just speaking, when we say something, when we speak

Melinda Lee: 00:21:00

something allowing for the opportunities that come when but

Melinda Lee: 00:21:04

noticing them opening your, your heart and your mind to it.

Melinda Lee: 00:21:09

That's what I'm hearing.

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:10

Absolutely. And I think you know, you, you and I

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:12

both know, like, in and we all are wired with negativity bias.

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:18

Yeah, because every five seconds, our brain goes and just

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:21

looks for the negative stuff. And then we make up stories and

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:24

we fill in the gaps and, and that negativity bias was served

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:27

us for 1000s of years like this is why we're still here as human

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:31

species. But it doesn't necessarily serve us in our day

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:34

to day, when it comes to what is that next stress level? What am

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:39

I going to do? So finding ways to calming your nervous system?

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:43

Really focusing? How do I charge my battery backup every day?

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:48

Little by little? Do you need, you know, 20 minute nap at three

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:51

o'clock? Do you need a meditation? Do you go out for a

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:55

walk? Like, what are those things that really serve us?

Hanna Bankier: 00:21:59

Like I've been meditating for, I don't know, 1015 years by now

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:02

like, and people are like, I don't have time. And I said, I

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:05

would not have time not to do it. Right? Because it centres

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:09

me, I'm clear, I make better decisions. my stress level

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:14

doesn't go up and I wasted tonnes of energy on some stress.

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:17

And I can just come back to the moment and be here with you. As

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:21

opposed to thinking about like, what am I going to cook for

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:23

dinner today? Or am I gonna pick up my kids? Like, no, I'm, I'm

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:26

here, right now, though, the charging the battery to really

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:31

then make those wise choices and the decisions. And that goes

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:35

back to this thing of saying no. How do you spend your time and

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:38

your energy? Not every opportunity that comes your way

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:42

is the right opportunity for you

Melinda Lee: 00:22:44

No, definitely not.

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:45

Definitely every ask that comes is going to be

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:48

the right thing. Right, you know, and then having like when

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:52

people go through my programme, they walk away. And they have

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:55

you know, a few ways of saying, you know, I give them about 40

Hanna Bankier: 00:22:58

of them. And then you have a couple of say pick two or three

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:01

of your favourites keep them in your back pocket.

Melinda Lee: 00:23:04

Which what's a one a couple of your favourites?

Melinda Lee: 00:23:06

Yeah,

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:07

well, you know, it is is fascinating. In the

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:10

English language, we have this word, it is two letters. It's

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:14

called No. And it really is a complete sentence, right? And

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:18

somehow it is one of them or just wants to say a word, it's

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:22

not even hard to pronounce. So if you're in that space, and you

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:28

have this clarity, and somebody brings you an opportunity or

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:31

request or an Ask, and you just know, it's it's no, then just

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:37

say that. Well, the key in that point is to how do you deliver

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:42

it? Right? And are you calm? Are you clear? Are you kind? Are you

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:48

concise? All of these things were communication skills,

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:51

because how you deliver your know, really is going to impact

Hanna Bankier: 00:23:55

the response you're getting. So there's there's a lot there. But

Hanna Bankier: 00:24:00

another one is

Melinda Lee: 00:24:03

Can I just go too quick. And I think that what

Melinda Lee: 00:24:06

you're saying is when you have your y very clearly defined,

Melinda Lee: 00:24:10

then you can bring in that know with such certainty and

Melinda Lee: 00:24:13

kindness. Because that's the key because a lot of times we we've

Melinda Lee: 00:24:17

been saying yes for so long. And finally we say no. And then all

Melinda Lee: 00:24:21

this anger and frustration come up and then everybody else gets

Melinda Lee: 00:24:23

angry. And so that's what we remember about those noes. And

Melinda Lee: 00:24:27

that's how we associate with those nose is all those times

Melinda Lee: 00:24:30

where we had been frustrated and the other person gets upset. And

Melinda Lee: 00:24:33

so and so when you take this time right now to understand

Melinda Lee: 00:24:36

your why and be so clear about it, and then having all the

Melinda Lee: 00:24:40

strategies under your belt then you can just say no with this

Melinda Lee: 00:24:44

call kindness. And then people feel that calm kindness and

Melinda Lee: 00:24:48

they're like,

Hanna Bankier: 00:24:48

Okay, yeah, and people respect you in a couple

Hanna Bankier: 00:24:52

of different ways. There's nothing to argue with because

Hanna Bankier: 00:24:54

you don't start in this defence mode. Right? You start in like,

Hanna Bankier: 00:24:58

No, right? On Fridays, we have dinner as a family, I'm not

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:02

available, like whether you choose to explain it or not. But

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:05

these are my values. And our values is that on Friday nights,

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:09

this is what we do. So I cannot do that. You know. So going back

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:13

to like some other easy example, sometimes if you just want to

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:17

buy yourself some time to say that, even if you don't know,

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:21

necessarily, or it feels awkward or tricky to say in the moment,

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:25

it's just like, let me check my calendar, or I want to check

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:28

with my with my partner, and I'll get back to you. I think

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:31

key here is to really do get back to people and not leave

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:34

them hanging, right? We're not looking to start ghosting

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:36

people, but to just say it, and then maybe that next step

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:40

communication is via text or an email, and it might feel easier

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:45

to communicate it that way. Right.

Melinda Lee: 00:25:47

Okay. Got it. Yes, yes. Yeah. So if you're not in

Melinda Lee: 00:25:50

for the person, then you use a text or email.

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:52

Yeah. And just like, hey, I checked, sorry, I'm

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:54

not available. Yeah. You don't need an explanation. Yeah.

Hanna Bankier: 00:25:58

Anybody is free to ask you. Yeah, that's great. We need

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:03

help. We need things from other people. We're social human

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:06

being, but you don't owe them an automatic. Yes. And if that's

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:12

having dinner with your family on Friday is more important than

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:14

doing something else, then that's your value. That's fine.

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:18

You're good. That's all you need. Because you know, you,

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:22

right? And sometimes we say yes, because we don't want to

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:25

disappoint others. But my question to you then is what's

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:28

worth? Disappointing somebody else, or continuously

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:33

disappointing yourself? That's powerful. And you wouldn't do

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:38

that. If that was your best friend, you wouldn't constantly

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:41

walk out and disappoint your best friend. No. Are you your

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:45

best friend? Right, right? Yes, you're looking out for you. What

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:49

do you need in this moment? Right. And you're good, right?

Hanna Bankier: 00:26:55

less

Melinda Lee: 00:26:56

powerful, so powerful. And I know my mom is

Melinda Lee: 00:26:59

here, because she barely said, Yes. She's here today with this

Melinda Lee: 00:27:04

teaching. Her immune system was not she just barely said yes.

Melinda Lee: 00:27:07

And so it did not do well for health. So no, one last

Melinda Lee: 00:27:11

question. Yeah, the key ingredient to help us unleash

Melinda Lee: 00:27:17

our voice and say, No.

Hanna Bankier: 00:27:21

What do you say? I would say? Yeah, I would say I

Hanna Bankier: 00:27:23

mean, I tend to have ideas, but to just name a couple, I would

Hanna Bankier: 00:27:27

definitely say claiming that like, if you know, what's right

Hanna Bankier: 00:27:32

for you, you know, so claim that. And then secondly, again,

Hanna Bankier: 00:27:39

you need to start practising. Without the practice, it is not

Hanna Bankier: 00:27:42

just going to come like that, as much as I wish that for you. It

Hanna Bankier: 00:27:46

is going to be an intentional shift. And then you're going to

Hanna Bankier: 00:27:49

be knowing, and when you're in that power, you're not going to

Hanna Bankier: 00:27:54

be questioned the same way. Because you're not explaining

Hanna Bankier: 00:27:57

yourself. You're not coming up with excuses. You're calm,

Hanna Bankier: 00:28:01

you're kind and saying this was available for me, this is not

Hanna Bankier: 00:28:04

available for me. And then you have it.

Melinda Lee: 00:28:09

And it takes muscle, it takes work. I'm

Melinda Lee: 00:28:11

thinking about my mom, there's it was so hard for her. And a

Melinda Lee: 00:28:15

lot of people especially because we care, we want to care about

Melinda Lee: 00:28:18

our people, and we want to support people and and so when

Melinda Lee: 00:28:21

people need help leaders need help, which I'm sure that they

Melinda Lee: 00:28:24

would just like they need help at the gym with the trainer. How

Melinda Lee: 00:28:28

do they get a hold of you? What do you tell us more about what

Melinda Lee: 00:28:31

you have going on, Hannah?

Hanna Bankier: 00:28:32

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I want to just say one

Hanna Bankier: 00:28:35

more thing, it is so true that we have, it's easy to just like,

Hanna Bankier: 00:28:39

I'll do this. And they'll do this. And I'll do that. But

Hanna Bankier: 00:28:41

here's the honest truth. If your car is running on empty, you

Hanna Bankier: 00:28:46

cannot pick up more passengers. Right? There. It really starts

Hanna Bankier: 00:28:51

with you. There's no you're gonna just drain and you're

Hanna Bankier: 00:28:54

going to exhaust and then you have in this place where all

Hanna Bankier: 00:28:57

these people are dependent on you, they haven't started

Hanna Bankier: 00:28:59

flexing their own independence muscles and you haven't put down

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:01

their bags, you carrying it at all. And then when you go out,

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:05

the entire system is gonna fall apart. Totally starting with you

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:09

is really like the key. But yes, so what am I doing I am super

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:14

passionate about this, like, this is one of my absolute jams.

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:18

So coming from that place, I'm inviting any listener who wants

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:22

to take a deeper dive. And I'm going to make it specific offer

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:27

a special offer for the speaking flow listeners, which is a 20%

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:31

discount code to my online course called no is a complete

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:35

sentence. And you will go to my website called Working Solutions

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:41

group.com and you'll find it there and then your discount

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:46

code is called Speak in flow 2023 And it will be available

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:51

for another two weeks to buy at that awesome price. And then

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:56

really making that investment in you like you can start that

Hanna Bankier: 00:29:59

shift To end it's going to be worth, it's gonna pay off

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:02

dividends over and over and over again. And you're gonna get your

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:05

joy and your time and your energy back. And I really want

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:08

that for you. So buy it in the next two weeks. And then you

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:13

have till the end of the year to take the actual course, and it's

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:15

self paced, and it will you can do it in three weeks or less.

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:19

And if you want to like up it, you can then also combine it and

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:22

take it with individual coaching sessions with me to really

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:28

figure out like, are you getting stuck? Or are you getting stuck?

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:30

And how are we going to bridge that? And it makes for a perfect

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:33

gift. Because I'm sure you like I we all have some people that

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:37

we know that would be benefiting from say, you know, to take care

Hanna Bankier: 00:30:41

of themselves.

Melinda Lee: 00:30:42

Oh my gosh, so many people, so many people are

Melinda Lee: 00:30:45

running on overwhelm anxiety, and they are they're just keep

Melinda Lee: 00:30:49

on going and going and they're renting that's like their day to

Melinda Lee: 00:30:51

day. And so stop the madness, like get, you know, help you

Melinda Lee: 00:30:55

help yourself help others. I know, my mom wish she could have

Melinda Lee: 00:30:58

done that for herself. And she passed away in 2016. Because she

Melinda Lee: 00:31:03

was always saying yes, I know that. I mean, I'm not gonna say

Melinda Lee: 00:31:06

that. That's the ultimate reason. But I know that that was

Melinda Lee: 00:31:09

not good for her health, constantly doing for others

Melinda Lee: 00:31:13

constantly not speaking up enough. And so you're worth it.

Melinda Lee: 00:31:17

You're worth in real life, you're gonna look back, you are

Melinda Lee: 00:31:21

the CEO or the CEO of your life, blow your look back in life and

Melinda Lee: 00:31:24

say, Wow, I did it. I did it. And I was healthy. And I was who

Melinda Lee: 00:31:28

I wanted to be living this life and people around me were

Melinda Lee: 00:31:32

supporting me and helping me and allowing them to do that for

Melinda Lee: 00:31:36

you. We deserve that. Yeah. That's so amazing. Thank you,

Melinda Lee: 00:31:41

Hannah, for sharing that amazing gift for our audience members.

Melinda Lee: 00:31:44

And so go ahead and grab that discount code. Hurry up. And

Melinda Lee: 00:31:49

we'll see you on the other side. Thank you, Hannah, on the show.

Melinda Lee: 00:31:53

Thank you so much. It was super fun.

Hanna Bankier: 00:31:55

Thank you for having me. I had a blast. Yay.