Failing Forward: Leadership Lessons from an Engineering Leader

Welcome, dear listeners, to the speak and flow podcast, where we dive into unique experiences to help you and your team unleash the power of their voice achieve maximum potential and flow. Today, I have an amazing, incredibly talented leader

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Melinda Lee: in the software hardware engineering space, David Habood. He is the Cmo for engineering education worldwide. He's also the senior product marketing lead for altium.

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Melinda Lee: His his lifelong goal is to bridge the gap between hardware software design as through establishing connections with clients.

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Melinda Lee: Hi, David! Welcome to the show.

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David Haboud: Hello! Thank you for having me.

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Melinda Lee: I'm so glad you're here. Thanks so much for joining us and sharing your expertise before we launch into how to establish connections, especially with software and hardware design. Tell me about what are you excited and passionate about with regard to engineering education worldwide.

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David Haboud: I just started to write about design for sustainability.

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David Haboud: very important topic, we have a lot of e waste going around as we

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David Haboud: create new technologies. A lot of disposable technology, you know, one time use thrown away.

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David Haboud: So talking about how to increase design, reliability and design for sustainability is.

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David Haboud: you know, something I'm really passionate about right now, and I'm working with some clients to help them communicate their solutions. How they help with those things so I'm I'm pretty excited to

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David Haboud: to get that some of that stuff out soon.

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Melinda Lee: Oh, my gosh! I've never heard of that! That is amazing. I'm 1. i'm so glad that people are actually doing that, because I see so much waste. And it's like, especially after Covid. You just saw all this waste, and it's ridiculous.

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David Haboud: Yeah, it's really important to to create things that last.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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David Haboud: You know, a convenience is great and technology does that for us. But it's also important to make things that are reliable in a sustainable manner. So we're not creating all these pollutants and things unnecessarily. Some things you know, we need. But

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David Haboud: we have to think about it before we just

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David Haboud: make stuff and throw them away.

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Melinda Lee: And and that requires a pre-planning the for the design from the up, from the upfront.

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David Haboud: Yeah, you know, because he, you have to make sure that you can source things long term that you are not this concept called component de rating, but we won't get into that too much, but.

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Melinda Lee: Bye-bye.

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David Haboud: Essentially making sure that you are using components, that aren't gonna deteriorate too quickly. So you need to remake them. And you're not spending all this time completing maintenance for customers, and you have a reliable product that they can use for years. And hopefully, you create it in a way that you can repair it. If if it does break.

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Melinda Lee: I see.

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David Haboud: Opposed to. Oh, one tiny piece broke the whole thing's garbage now. So you know, creating things in that in that way is important.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah. Yeah. And obviously, you had success with the beginning all the way to the implementation execution connecting to the clients and and with Ltm as well, too. And so tell us about a time where?

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, it was difficult to communicate. Like you said, engineers are very, you know, they're challenged with communicating some of their bright technical ideas, and they want to showcase all of their expertise and how it works and everything. But like, what are some of the challenges you face with regard to using this communication and connecting to clients.

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David Haboud: I like. 1st thing that comes to mind was when I 1st took over the global webinar process, when I was working at altium a couple of years ago. Well, still working there. But when I took it over

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David Haboud: we wanted to increase communications on a global level. A lot of things were focused on being in English.

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David Haboud: and because of the highly technical nature, there was a lot of focus on creating this perfect script that you could then give to someone else in another region. Do it in Spanish, French, Italian, and we spent so much time trying to get the words perfect in English.

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David Haboud: We found that when we went to translate it there was a lot of like colloquial conversation

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David Haboud: phrases that you use in the Us. But you wouldn't necessarily use in Japan alright.

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Melinda Lee: Wow!

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David Haboud: So things started breaking down there we found the English versions were working very well.

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David Haboud: Because we spent so much time on it.

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David Haboud: But the people felt a little disconnected in in the other regions, so.

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David Haboud: taking a step back there, and

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David Haboud: not focusing so much on the perfect words, but on the perfect meaning, right? The the messaging, the key points, and allowing different people

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David Haboud: from the different regions to put in their own cultural inputs.

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Melinda Lee: I have a question. How long did it take like? How much, how much time were you doing? Were you putting into creating these scripts.

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David Haboud: So.

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Melinda Lee: We realized,

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David Haboud: Yeah, each webinar is about a month of development researching things. So I would say it'd be a day or 2

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David Haboud: cumulative for the script right? Because there's different different pieces and then on top of that there'd be rewrites right? Because then we would be like, Oh, wait! That's not conveying it at all. I I thought it did and

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David Haboud: with highly technical things generally, the people who have that most.

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David Haboud: the most knowledge in that field aren't

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David Haboud: conversational, you know. Speakers so that. That's kind of where my passion comes in. Since I I come from from this realm of of design, of both hardware and software, I found

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David Haboud: I am someone who likes to communicate. So that's that's where I've kind of focused my my energy. How can I become the gateway for people to have better conversations and better communicate solutions across the electronics industry.

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Melinda Lee: Well, that's what really, what makes you unique, because it's rare to have someone that is so highly technical, such as yourself like to communicate. You see that the importance of that.

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David Haboud: Yeah it. And it's

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David Haboud: it's important to to follow what you're passionate with. Right? What are you? What are you good at? There's natural things we're good at.

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David Haboud: and I I found. Well, let's I should spend some more time trying to help people communicate.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah. Yeah. So when you started to realize, was it just like a light bulb, you realize, like, Oh, my goodness, why are we spending so much time on every single word, and it's not connecting to people. And then and then was it your idea to say, let's use the key topics and the key ideas.

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David Haboud: Yeah. So I I gathered up the presenters.

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Melinda Lee: Oh, okay.

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David Haboud: All virtually, of course, this was slightly, you know, this is about 7 years ago, so not as common for us all to meet globally, but it's the very start of the zoom. So we we all all would meet up

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David Haboud: and we would brainstorm the the key points of.

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David Haboud: The webinar before we got into the minutia of of everything.

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David Haboud: And and just really write that out, minimizing the number, the the overall text on all of the slides. Very technical presentations end up focusing on just like word vomit a little bit. So

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David Haboud: making sure we had really clear pictures of of the concepts we were trying to show in in the the software, creating new videos.

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David Haboud: examples of the engineering work. Right? And we would create little blocks

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David Haboud: that we could show and then deliver to people for them to try it out themselves. Get that hands on experience. It's really important to get get there and do it yourself. So

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David Haboud: just doing all all those little things, getting a team lead for each region so that they could accumulate

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David Haboud: the the information from their team, and we would all have conversations to to come

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David Haboud: and improve each webinar in an iterative fashion.

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Melinda Lee: And how long did it take to do that to get it.

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David Haboud: To where you were the whole process. It was about 6 months because we would

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David Haboud: put out a webinar in a certain region, and we'd iterate it during the localization process. So we would

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David Haboud: meet up and talk about the webinar after the fact and make some a little changes there and then each of the team leads would help with localization another level. So getting the message sharper and sharper each time, doing some dry runs at beforehand, instead of spending all the time writing the script like, let's.

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Melinda Lee: Right.

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David Haboud: Let's just try it. Let's just go do it and and see what's good. What's bad where

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David Haboud: you ramble a little bit. I. Unfortunately, there's a little bit of rambling with me and other people.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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David Haboud: 14, but.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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David Haboud: It's it's part of it. It's where the.

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Melinda Lee: But it's a part of it exactly. Exactly. I mean, I think that's what makes. But this goes into just presentation skills as a whole, and it brings me up an idea of I think a lot of people want it to be perfect the very 1st time coming out of the gate, and then what that and what that does is. It slows you down.

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Melinda Lee: And it is going to be. And so if we can just think about it as lessons learned. And it's okay not to be perfect. There's a part of the authenticity about just putting yourself out there. But it is a scary thought. But yeah, you know.

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David Haboud: I, you know the the good thing like for me. I

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David Haboud: that's right. When I started improvisational theater, and I think.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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David Haboud: That's what changed for me. There was that improvisational theater is the, you know, the concept of yes, and going out there and failing forward, but failing.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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David Haboud: Team. Your team has your back there. So.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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David Haboud: Let's just go present to each other.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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David Haboud: And and improve there. We're not.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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David Haboud: You're not going to be right

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David Haboud: a hundred percent of the time. But that's where you can grow. Repeat the things that did work and figure out how to get the the negative things out of your team's way.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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David Haboud: Keep going.

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David Haboud: That that's that's it. I think that's you know. That's the most important thing, being there.

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David Haboud: Leading, leading.

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Melinda Lee: Did you have any?

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David Haboud: In the trenches.

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Melinda Lee: Specific example. Did you have a specific example of what you saw that was working? And they're like, okay, this does not work.

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David Haboud: going back to, you know, getting rid of words, you know, instead of trying to fully, you know, putting paragraphs all up on the screen. How can I abstract this? A pictures worth a thousand words. So let's get some pictures in, let's get some videos and and create experiences that are interactive.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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David Haboud: That's how you learn. That's that's at least you know the way I learned the best is

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David Haboud: getting in there, getting my hands dirty. Otherwise, it's just ideas.

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David Haboud: You know, experiences is the key thing, and persevering through all those little hiccups.

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Melinda Lee: Right? Right? Right?

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Melinda Lee: Especially with like you said, I mean, you're building this, the webinar. So eventually, you're gonna build a webinar for people to learn how to design products that are sustainable.

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Melinda Lee: Right. And so that will be a very powerful webinar, and

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Melinda Lee: and and like iterative, like helping them to do something, and then come back, and then learn some more.

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David Haboud: It iterative. Iteration is key, right? The you know, the the key thing that, like the

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David Haboud: the industry has taken is agility right? The the agile concept and and traditionally, with hardware.

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David Haboud: It's expensive to fail right? Right?

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Melinda Lee: So it's taking that software mentality of iterating on on your software. Your software is gonna have bugs

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Melinda Lee: right?

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David Haboud: But you can create different prototypes.

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David Haboud: virtually right. And and that's part part of what I I teach like, how can you create things

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David Haboud: in a way that you test them out without it being so expensive.

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Melinda Lee: Yep, yep, it's true. Yeah, no, it's so true, right?

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Melinda Lee: And that is what is that? The webinars that they teach that that's what you're going to. That's the catalog of content that you you wanna specialize in.

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David Haboud: Yeah, that's that's 1 of the the key points. So it's just like how to make your your process more iterative so that you can be more sustainable.

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Melinda Lee: Right. How? How can you.

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David Haboud: Build in little checks instead of doing this whole waterfall thing, and you get to the end. Oh, I worked on this script. I don't even like the key points. Let's go back. Let's let's iterate on the smaller things, so that, you know when you integrate it all together, you get this smooth little line.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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David Haboud: You know, just a lot of mathematical concepts bringing in.

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Melinda Lee: I bet you and your team have so much fun, especially with your your background in improv bringing in all of this, you know, as they're putting themselves out there to communicate and present. You're, you know, teaching them, I'm sure some of the improv concepts that you've learned.

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David Haboud: Try. You know, I I to me the biggest thing is to

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David Haboud: create an environment where people are comfortable, to be themselves like.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah. Be authentic.

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David Haboud: Tick. And and that's not always like

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David Haboud: nice. That's not always a a an idea that comes up in corporate America right?

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David Haboud: But but I I think if you're not taking any risks, you're you're not gonna grow, and you're gonna stagnate, and no one wants that.

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Melinda Lee: No one wants that. And and then you're not yourself. So it's like, you're constantly you're overthinking about. Who am I supposed to be? What decisions can I make? And that's not fun. So it's like, Yeah, I think there should should be more of that. I hope that's what I like to bring into corporate America is the idea of being yourself failing forward, fast doing what you need to do, putting yourself out there as uncomfortable as it is but like again, if you could create a safe environment like you do for you and your teams, then they feel more, you know, open to doing that.

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David Haboud: Yeah. And I, I found that over time

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David Haboud: people become more comfortable. Share sharing.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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David Haboud: Because there's great ideas that.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah. No.

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David Haboud: Because you are leading something doesn't mean you automatically know, everyone has their own experiences. And we live in this globalized world where you can get information from anywhere. So take that, take advantage of that, meet with people from everywhere, and and integrate that.

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Melinda Lee: Well what I mean cause with, especially with hardware and software design it has to be.

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Melinda Lee: It has to be pretty accurate. I mean, there's a lot of risk involved. And so what if there are people that don't have? I mean honestly, their idea is not the best. What do you do in that situation?

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David Haboud: I.

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David Haboud: Everything is an opportunity to learn right. Even a bad idea can

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David Haboud: bring forth something new in in a different person. Right? Every every piece of the puzzle

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David Haboud: allows you to gain experience and

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David Haboud: make changes that are necessary. They're

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David Haboud: everything has validity. If you give it its own space.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, if if you automatically discount it without, yeah.

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David Haboud: Discussing. Well, why was that a bad idea?

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David Haboud: Right? Right? Like.

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David Haboud: oh, okay. Instead of shooting it down like bad idea. Why? So now, maybe they can think

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David Haboud: of a new, better idea.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, that makes sense.

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David Haboud: Right

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah.

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David Haboud: Don't. Don't just leave people hanging. Give them that that feedback critical feedback that is.

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David Haboud: you're you're trying to help them not put them down.

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Melinda Lee: Right right? And then who knows? Because then that brainstorming can then lead to something powerful and out of the box.

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Melinda Lee: You never know.

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David Haboud: And it's you know, we we would do a lot of just like walking meetings where we would.

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Melinda Lee: Right.

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David Haboud: We pick a topic we're like, what are we trying to solve? That's that's another key thing. For you know, being more impactful with these webinars.

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David Haboud: always having a question that you're trying to solve

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David Haboud: right? Like, what? What am I trying to teach?

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David Haboud: Answering this this specific question and and going from there. So we would just pick pick a topic, and we'd walk and talk and brainstorm.

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David Haboud: I got that from from my my 1st boss, Sam Satel.

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David Haboud: We would, we would do that. And I've always loved that just

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Melinda Lee: Oh! That!

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David Haboud: You know, being in nature or offices in La Jolla. So good good place to walk around, you know, is by the Ucsd campus

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David Haboud: so just being able to get there. And that's where the creativity flows when you're when you're together.

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David Haboud: you know. That's that's the key point to being in an office like being together and

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David Haboud: bouncing ideas off of each other.

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Melinda Lee: Right, and then might as well. And then, if you can bring it outside for like 1015 min even better.

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David Haboud: Got a little sunlight.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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David Haboud: Your son, you.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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David Haboud: Oh, well.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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David Haboud: So.

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Melinda Lee: Not a bad place to be, not a bad place for ideas.

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David Haboud: Not not at all, not at all.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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Melinda Lee: love that. Well, David, I would last question before we end. Because I learned a lot already with regard to yeah, just creating that safe space for people to to, you know, bring ideas forward and iterate it, and bring it to the market in a way that is.

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Melinda Lee: makes sense to them like you said, like letting go of the script which requires then understanding where their what their culture is, how do we speak to them? Which is a very powerful what is what is a 1 leadership? Golden takeaway that you want the audience to remember.

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David Haboud: Be open

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David Haboud: to to everyone's ideas, and make sure that you get in there and do the work yourself every once in a while, so that you can have these conversations. With your own experience. A lot of times when we're leading, we're focusing on all of these like business concepts and buzz words. But just get your hands dirty.

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David Haboud: Have those conversations, and make sure everyone feels comfortable.

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David Haboud: That's that's how you're gonna be creative

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David Haboud: and get the best information out there.

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Melinda Lee: Love that love that just be with the people.

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David Haboud: Yeah, what?

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David Haboud: That's your job, you know. Get, keep doing the things that work, and find out what's in people's way and get it out of the way.

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Melinda Lee: Like that's get it out of the way.

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David Haboud: That's what being a leader is.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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David Haboud: At least to me.

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Melinda Lee: I love that. It's a great concept. I think it's so important. Yes, be with the people, understand what their needs are, get things out of the way.

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Melinda Lee: and don't be afraid to fail.

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David Haboud: Don't be afraid.

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David Haboud: And and that that came from the Improv, because, being, you know, on a technical level, coming from the engineering side, you're so scared of failure all the time, and you're like there's a correct way. There's no one way to do anything there. There is always another way. So go try

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David Haboud: and iterate.

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Melinda Lee: Love that

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Melinda Lee: love that. Thank you, David. I really appreciate your time. It was really valuable. I trust also that our audience is taking away the nuggets that they need, so that they can implement in their lives and speak from courage, speak with confidence, connect with their clients and audiences in a way that matters and makes positive change.

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Melinda Lee: Thank you and thank you. Audience, for being here. I trust you're well, and I will see you on the other side, and at our next episode. Thank you. Take care.

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David Haboud: Thank you.

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Melinda Lee: Bye, David.

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David Haboud: Right.