CyberSpeak Unleashed: Mastering Communication in the Digital Frontier With Anastasia Durbala

Melinda Lee: 00:00:02

Welcome. Today, my guest is Anastasia Dubala. She

Melinda Lee: 00:00:07

is an expert in the cybersecurity realm with decades

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of experience in the technology industry. I brought her on

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because we have a lot going on in the cybersecurity world, we

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have so much information coming at us. In fact, some big name

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hotels just got security breached. And we also have that

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risk. And so I wanted her to share some expertise with us.

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What can we do to communicate, what can we do to speak up to do

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what we need to do to protect ourselves, as well as she's also

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going to share some information about how to communicate with

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various people, she works on large projects, she goes into

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organisation does assessments, find out where the security

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breaches are and offer different cybersecurity solutions. And

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through that whole process, she has some work with a lot of

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different counterparts, executives, as well as HR

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department heads and consider how to approach them. And so

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she's going to share with us some skills and some experiences

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with us, because a lot of you are doing big projects. And so

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how do we effectively communicate with different

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audiences? So check these, check out this episode, listen for

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these tips. And hope you enjoy. Hello, Anastasia. Hi. Hello,

Melinda Lee: 00:01:30

glad you're here.

Anastasia Durbala: 00:01:31

Thank you glad to be here.

Melinda Lee: 00:01:34

Thanks for sharing your expertise on the cyber

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realm with us. And I'm excited to hear from your perspective,

Melinda Lee: 00:01:40

you've been in the industry for many, many years. And so what is

Melinda Lee: 00:01:44

exciting new in the cybersecurity world that you

Melinda Lee: 00:01:47

want the audience to hear?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:01:49

Well, one reminder that I want people to

Anastasia Durbala: 00:01:51

know is it's been around but it there's been kind of an uptick

Anastasia Durbala: 00:01:57

in a specific area, we always hear a lot about phishing and

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:01

getting emails from bad actors or villains. As far as trying to

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:06

get us to click on a link for something bad, big element is

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:11

there trying to get you to click on a link that looks like a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:14

legitimate website and get your credentials. And if you don't

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:19

have a secure password, including two factor

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:23

authentication, sudden, suddenly they have access to your

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:28

potential account. Now, the what's taken an uptick recently,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:34

is text messaging this way, this is called smishing. And you may

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:40

have noticed you receive a lot of those. Now some of them are

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:43

similar with the link that they want you to click on, hopefully,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:47

they're going to capture your credentials. Or again, maybe

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:50

they want you to click on a link and download malware onto your

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:55

phone. My biggest thing is I would just say, you know, take a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:02:59

moment and be mindful, these are annoying messages, and they

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bother all of us. But if you're concerned about the topics, or

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:08

the subject of any of them, and it looks or appears to be from a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:13

legitimate vendor, or one of your clients, rather than

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:17

responding to that message, reach out directly to that

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:20

vendor or that banking institution or that individual

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:23

client and talk to them. You know, sometimes we forget about

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:28

just engaging on a regular, you know, how are you doing talking

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:33

one to one. And so that's really important. And then now you're

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:37

in control, because you know that a phone number that you

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:39

call is legitimate, and then you can get to the bottom of it.

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:44

Otherwise, if someone's really trying to reach you, and they

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:46

keep emailing you and even though it may have seemed rushed

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:49

or not quite their normal style, they'll eventually pick up the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:54

phone call you if it becomes urgent enough. So that's just

Anastasia Durbala: 00:03:57

kind of one area that I'd like everyone to continue to remain

Anastasia Durbala: 00:04:03

vigilant and, you know, open and mindful about. Yeah,

Melinda Lee: 00:04:08

I mean, I completely agree. We're

Melinda Lee: 00:04:09

bombarded with so much information, so many tech, so

Melinda Lee: 00:04:13

many emails. And then for me I would I tend to start to avoid

Melinda Lee: 00:04:17

it. I avoid it all I avoid at all. And I don't think that

Melinda Lee: 00:04:20

that's like what you're saying is the best solution because

Melinda Lee: 00:04:23

what what actually ended up happening to me one time is my

Melinda Lee: 00:04:26

power did get shut off because it was actually peih Gee and me

Melinda Lee: 00:04:29

trying to email me and I just ended up avoiding it all. And

Melinda Lee: 00:04:33

that's not the solution. That's not the way to interact. I think

Melinda Lee: 00:04:38

with all of these, this information that's coming at us

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and so what you're saying is, Hey, be mindful. Let's take a

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step. Take us take a break. Be mindful what's happening. You

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can take a look at the message and then it does seem legitimate

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and you're still not sure then you're saying to go go on the

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website, go on their actual website, get the actual phone

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number reverses whatever number that they're giving you. Because

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sometimes we'll call that number to find out if they're correct

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or not. And that's don't do that. So take a moment to go on

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their website, look for the actual number, or go on to the

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website and log into your account to see if your your,

Melinda Lee: 00:05:16

your, your statement or your bills are paid. And then make a

Melinda Lee: 00:05:21

phone call to verify.

Anastasia Durbala: 00:05:23

Yeah, and a lot of different accounts that

Anastasia Durbala: 00:05:25

you have, if it's a personal account, you can look on and see

Anastasia Durbala: 00:05:28

what the login history is, if it's a business account,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:05:31

certainly you can reach out to your IT department, and they can

Anastasia Durbala: 00:05:34

determine different logins and determine if something is awry

Anastasia Durbala: 00:05:40

with one of your accounts.

Melinda Lee: 00:05:43

So you do this you offer cybersecurity solutions to

Melinda Lee: 00:05:48

organisations, large organisations, and you supported

Melinda Lee: 00:05:51

them and help them to find out where the gaps in some of their

Melinda Lee: 00:05:54

cybersecurity protocols. So you will Yeah.

Anastasia Durbala: 00:05:59

Yeah, I've worked. I've worked a lot with

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:02

the financial industry, that reportable to the SEC. But

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:10

basically, why go in and I assess and see where are the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:13

holes are the gaps in security in an organisation and there

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:17

would, as it has to do with information security? And then,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:22

you know, and that involves working with a bunch of

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:25

different departments interviewing different

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:27

departments getting a sense of, does everyone know where their

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:30

data is? How are they protecting it? And who has access to it?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:35

And then are the different departments communicating

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:38

together so that they all stay informed? And as a whole, the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:42

organisation really has a solid handle on what's going on with

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:47

their with their data?

Melinda Lee: 00:06:49

And are you finding that organisations are good at

Melinda Lee: 00:06:51

communicating as a whole?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:54

Ah, I would say they try very hard. And,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:06:58

yeah, as a whole, I think they do pretty good. I think the fact

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:01

that they reach out to request assessments speaks a lot to that

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:06

they understand the gravity of understanding where different

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:10

holes are, sometimes where communication might be a little

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:15

tricky, from my point of view is, you know, maybe a particular

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:21

department is a little nervous, because now someone's coming in,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:25

or a team of folks are coming in and interviewing them asking a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:29

lot of questions. And so I really like to reassure folks

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:34

that my job isn't to assess them or, you know, break down, we're

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:41

not trying to find holes with that we're basically trying to

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:44

get gather all the information so that it's clear if for your

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:49

department, do you have a sense of where the data is? And then,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:53

you know, how are you communicating with the other

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:55

teams. And so, you know, as we work through that process, that

Anastasia Durbala: 00:07:59

gets easier as we go along. And, and that that really helps is

Anastasia Durbala: 00:08:05

just keeping the communication and talking through the process

Anastasia Durbala: 00:08:09

with folks. And engaging them because sometimes while I'm

Anastasia Durbala: 00:08:13

assessing and finding gaps, certain departments, they may,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:08:18

you know, have an idea of what a solution might be. And so I

Anastasia Durbala: 00:08:22

think that that's even better, because then they're more likely

Anastasia Durbala: 00:08:25

to adapt, if I, you know, agree or have some input on on

Anastasia Durbala: 00:08:31

different options for whatever solution we're discussing.

Melinda Lee: 00:08:36

So you go into the department, and you probably

Melinda Lee: 00:08:39

have some ideas and some solutions to offer. At the same

Melinda Lee: 00:08:44

time, you also want to collaborate with your client,

Melinda Lee: 00:08:48

the person that's there, and and so just like some of the

Melinda Lee: 00:08:51

managers in the audience, there, they just like you have, you're

Melinda Lee: 00:08:55

the consultant you you're the you know, the solution. And so

Melinda Lee: 00:08:59

when you go in to talk to the client, how do you know like,

Melinda Lee: 00:09:02

what nonverbal verbal behaviours? Can you recall that

Melinda Lee: 00:09:06

they do when you sense that, hey, I don't trust this person.

Melinda Lee: 00:09:10

I don't know what she's doing here. What do you notice?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:09:14

A lot of times if someone is resistant or

Anastasia Durbala: 00:09:18

isn't sure of the situation, perhaps you get a lot of yes,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:09:22

no, not elaboration on not elaborating on answers. And so I

Anastasia Durbala: 00:09:30

really want to encourage folks to talk to sort of tell me, walk

Anastasia Durbala: 00:09:38

me through their process walk me through what they do. Just

Anastasia Durbala: 00:09:43

however, I can try to help them feel more at ease.

Melinda Lee: 00:09:48

And what if they just show you a little bit and

Melinda Lee: 00:09:50

they don't show you more?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:09:53

It depends on what the area is, but a lot of

Anastasia Durbala: 00:09:56

times, it may be I might press a little bit to say okay, That's

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:00

great. Can we click on that if we're doing an over the shoulder

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:04

looking at a system together? Or it may be a request to ask for a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:10

report. But I would say overall, even if there's some resistance

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:14

at the beginning, for the most part, people turn around when

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:18

they realise, you know, I'm not from an agency, I'm not from an

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:22

organisation that is a is a true threat. I'm really just trying

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:27

to help the organisation up their security posture.

Melinda Lee: 00:10:33

Do you? And then so by you reminding them, do you

Melinda Lee: 00:10:37

remind them somehow, that

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:40

yeah, I just remind them that we need that,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:43

you know, their organisation needs to work together as a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:46

team, and everyone plays a key role. And how are ways that we

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:51

can help? Say, if they're from the IT department? What are ways

Anastasia Durbala: 00:10:57

in which we can help encourage the end users to say, use best

Anastasia Durbala: 00:11:03

password practices? Are there security measures we can put in

Anastasia Durbala: 00:11:07

place for that? To try to help them strengthen their position?

Melinda Lee: 00:11:14

Awesome, and then they'll they'll eventually start

Melinda Lee: 00:11:16

to open up and get more calm? Yeah,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:11:18

yeah. Yeah. Do you think you're just letting

Anastasia Durbala: 00:11:22

them have an opportunity to speak openly and freely?

Melinda Lee: 00:11:26

Right, right. So allowing them to choose Yes,

Melinda Lee: 00:11:29

say, what is their concern open and freely and that you're not

Melinda Lee: 00:11:32

going to do anything to Yeah, to jeopardise what they're doing?

Melinda Lee: 00:11:37

They probably can feel sometimes, oh, maybe she's

Melinda Lee: 00:11:39

taking my job.

Anastasia Durbala: 00:11:41

Right? Or is it? What's the end goal? Is it

Anastasia Durbala: 00:11:45

to replace hoax or restructure? And? And for my that's not what

Anastasia Durbala: 00:11:52

my consultant role is?

Melinda Lee: 00:11:55

And how do you build that? How do you

Melinda Lee: 00:11:57

incorporate pieces like that? So to reassure them? Have you do

Melinda Lee: 00:12:00

that?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:02

Oh, you just, you know, state plainly why, why

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:06

I'm here, I'm just trying to get a sense of my focus is on the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:11

data. And where is the you know, where it is, you would have to

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:16

report to an agency or, you know, investors, if that's how

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:21

you're set up? where your data is, and then how are you

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:26

protecting it? And who has access to it? You know, a lot of

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:30

the word breach scares people. And you hear a lot of those

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:35

regularly in the news of data being stolen. And then, folks,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:39

Nene needed to be notified about that. Well, no one wants to be

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:44

on the, you know, the company that got breached. And so, you

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:51

know, that is really key, is it really having a handle on your

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:55

data? And if you have a lot of different systems, either in a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:12:59

bunch of different cloud systems, how much control do you

Anastasia Durbala: 00:13:02

have over securing that? And do you have a sense of where all

Anastasia Durbala: 00:13:07

the data is so that if there is an incident, can you quickly

Anastasia Durbala: 00:13:10

identify? And so just kind of talking them through that and

Anastasia Durbala: 00:13:15

why it's important to know that because in the long run, it

Anastasia Durbala: 00:13:18

just, it just helps them address issues quickly.

Melinda Lee: 00:13:22

Right? Reminding, they could actually, they could

Melinda Lee: 00:13:24

take your data, or the company's data, and then the downtime for

Melinda Lee: 00:13:28

that or stress around that or loss of money around that can be

Melinda Lee: 00:13:35

enough to be like, okay, Anastasia, what can you do to

Melinda Lee: 00:13:38

help me?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:13:39

Right, exactly. So just understanding

Anastasia Durbala: 00:13:42

the big picture.

Melinda Lee: 00:13:43

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. talking to them about the big

Melinda Lee: 00:13:47

picture shared vision of what the company wants, and is there?

Melinda Lee: 00:13:51

Has there been a time where there are people in the

Melinda Lee: 00:13:55

executive level that do not agree on the way to go about

Melinda Lee: 00:13:58

this? Or if it's not enough time?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:02

Ah, sometimes they haven't. Prior to the full

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:08

assessment. They've heard you know, whispers or discussion of

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:15

things in the past from say it of areas that they need to work

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:20

on. But what what my team likes to do is come in and try to help

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:27

the executive level if they weren't understanding that

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:29

before, what does it mean for them bottom line, because

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:33

there's only so much money the company has and so they do have

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:36

to allocate budgets. And so, you know, one of the things is, can

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:42

the report we provide, help them with their budgeting process,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:46

you know, kind of prioritise? Are these things we need to fix

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:51

this quarter or these things we need to fix in this year is this

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:54

sort of a three to five year project and what is what is the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:14:59

risk factor along the way, you know, because because sometimes

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:04

a cyber incident has more than just, oh, you can't access the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:09

data. I mean, does it mean your whole company's down for a day?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:13

What does that mean bottom line? For your production? Are you?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:18

Are you a company that produces a product and your, your product

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:24

that you produce is the key element to another industry? And

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:28

if you're down for a day or two, does that actually affect a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:31

completely different industry because they can't get the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:34

supply? Issue, you know that now they suddenly have a supply

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:39

chain issue, because you're not able to produce the product that

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:42

they need. So sometimes it's bigger than just us and our

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:46

company. You know, what, what does downtime with us mean, in

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:53

our business, and also in relation to either our customers

Anastasia Durbala: 00:15:56

or associates? That kind of thing?

Melinda Lee: 00:15:58

Hmm, okay, got it. So the they've got to think

Melinda Lee: 00:16:01

bigger to in turn, yeah, yeah, you're pitching to them, Hey,

Melinda Lee: 00:16:06

this is going to affect your bottom line. So you're speaking

Melinda Lee: 00:16:09

their language, in terms of bottom line, but then you're

Melinda Lee: 00:16:12

also expanding their perspective is not just about you, but it's

Melinda Lee: 00:16:17

also your potential partners and potential affiliates, and all

Melinda Lee: 00:16:20

those other people that are also going to be affected by and add

Melinda Lee: 00:16:24

to their bottom line. When

Anastasia Durbala: 00:16:25

Correct? Yeah, you're kind of your

Anastasia Durbala: 00:16:27

business continuity, it plays into that. Right. Right. Right.

Melinda Lee: 00:16:31

And do you think that have you found that the

Melinda Lee: 00:16:35

bottom line? And is that the only thing that they that

Melinda Lee: 00:16:39

resonates with them? Like you said, it's also the continuity?

Melinda Lee: 00:16:43

What else have you found that also resonates with these execs,

Melinda Lee: 00:16:47

and what communication

Anastasia Durbala: 00:16:51

their responsibility to their clients,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:16:56

their investors, the, you know, they also have proprietary data

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:02

that they want to protect? What makes them unique from

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:05

competitors, they need to be concerned about protecting that.

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:10

So there's a lot of factors that are important, I would say, it's

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:14

not just one element. And you know, it's even their employees,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:19

you know, some some firms, especially smaller firms,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:23

they're very engaged with other employees, and no, all of them

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:27

on a personal basis. And so, you know, it's, it's just different

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:32

priorities for for businesses, they have a variety of of

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:37

priorities that all need to be addressed. And so how do they

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:40

balance that?

Melinda Lee: 00:17:44

Awesome. So it sounds like you so you work with

Melinda Lee: 00:17:47

both the departments, the individuals in the department,

Melinda Lee: 00:17:52

and also the executives who have brought you in?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:56

Yeah, yeah, correct. Yeah, a lot of times,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:17:59

it just starts with, if I'm doing an assessment, setting up

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:04

an interview schedule, where I'll interview folks from all

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:08

different levels in the company in different departments, you

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:11

know, there's varieties of data that are important in a company,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:16

certainly the client data, or product data, depending on the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:21

business model is very important. But also in the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:24

accounting department that financial information is super

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:27

important. That's also a very key area where folks are trying

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:31

to always attack is they want to know who the CFO is, or the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:35

bookkeeper. And then HR is very important to that's, that's a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:38

lot of secure, personally identifying information

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:42

associated with the employees. And so that's, that's important

Anastasia Durbala: 00:18:48

to protect that as well.

Melinda Lee: 00:18:52

Wow. And have you noticed that you needed to adapt

Melinda Lee: 00:18:56

to the different personalities or departments? Your

Melinda Lee: 00:19:01

communication style?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:19:04

Yeah, it just depends on more, I wouldn't say

Anastasia Durbala: 00:19:07

there was. particular departments have particular

Anastasia Durbala: 00:19:10

personalities, I think it's a individual basis. And so, you

Anastasia Durbala: 00:19:16

know, after a while, you just kind of get used to you can tell

Anastasia Durbala: 00:19:21

if someone feels more open, or if they are hesitant, maybe

Anastasia Durbala: 00:19:27

they're not giving you full open answers. And so you just try to

Anastasia Durbala: 00:19:30

help encourage them to talk so that you can really get an idea

Anastasia Durbala: 00:19:37

of the of the picture of the of the department and learn more

Anastasia Durbala: 00:19:41

about where the data is and how they're how they're protecting

Anastasia Durbala: 00:19:45

it.

Melinda Lee: 00:19:45

And so earlier we talked about when you notice

Melinda Lee: 00:19:48

someone is not open there, they're short answers, or they

Melinda Lee: 00:19:52

might just show you a little bit here and there and then and you

Melinda Lee: 00:19:55

have to take a little bit more time to ask them questions to

Melinda Lee: 00:19:58

reassure them that you're not a threat. How can you tell if

Melinda Lee: 00:20:01

someone is open?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:20:04

They're very forthcoming with the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:20:06

information, you don't really have additional questions, it's

Anastasia Durbala: 00:20:12

very clear what they're presenting. And you know, it's

Anastasia Durbala: 00:20:19

pretty, it's straightforward in the sense of, you're getting a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:20:23

clearer picture from them, what where the data is? And what is

Anastasia Durbala: 00:20:28

going on with their role and everything?

Melinda Lee: 00:20:32

What about any body language? Do you notice the

Melinda Lee: 00:20:34

difference?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:20:36

Well, I think there's their standard. If I

Anastasia Durbala: 00:20:40

mean, it's a little harder on, you know, we've all had to pivot

Anastasia Durbala: 00:20:44

to zoom. So sometimes people aren't on camera, that's a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:20:49

little trickier. If they are on camera, are they constantly

Anastasia Durbala: 00:20:53

distracted, you know, sometimes interview might be extended,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:01

whereas if we could just focus for, you know, 510 minutes, we

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:05

can get this through this faster, and you can move on to

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:08

your next meeting, I understand folks are busy on different

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:12

levels. And so you really don't want to waste their time. But

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:15

it's it. That would be you know, sometimes body language,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:19

somebody might seem a little distracted. But I would say

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:21

that's pretty rare. For the most part, where we come in, people

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:26

have been briefed a little bit, I just remind them why I'm

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:29

there. And, you know, we just kind of try to get to the, to

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:34

the meat of it. And so it's really just having them tell me

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:39

a little bit about their background, and they kind of

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:41

dive into what they do on a daily basis, and then follow up

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:44

with some specific questions. I think that style tends to put

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:50

people a little more at ease, then. Where is this? What is

Anastasia Durbala: 00:21:54

this? Yeah, that whole thing. Whereas if they're driving the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:22:00

conversation a little bit more it, I think it helps put folks

Anastasia Durbala: 00:22:05

at ease. Right. And then if I if I can, that way, if I'm

Anastasia Durbala: 00:22:09

listening to that I can also pick up on, you know, where do I

Anastasia Durbala: 00:22:12

need follow up?

Melinda Lee: 00:22:14

Yeah, cuz we can easily if we want the

Melinda Lee: 00:22:16

information, I mean, we just want it now we're like, where's

Melinda Lee: 00:22:18

this can we get Give me this. And then suddenly, people will

Melinda Lee: 00:22:22

feel a little bit. Yeah, micromanage or overshadows or

Melinda Lee: 00:22:27

looking over my shoulder bombarded, it's just a little

Melinda Lee: 00:22:30

too intense. Yeah, and then, but for, um, for us, we need to get

Melinda Lee: 00:22:35

things done. And that's just a direct way of getting the

Melinda Lee: 00:22:38

information. But then sometimes we need to take a break or take

Melinda Lee: 00:22:41

a step back and think about the other person, especially if

Melinda Lee: 00:22:45

they're not accustomed to someone coming in asking you for

Melinda Lee: 00:22:48

information. And so you want to be sensitive, and look at it

Melinda Lee: 00:22:51

from there, and then give them more of the, even though it's

Melinda Lee: 00:22:54

going to take you or us some time, as a consultant, you want

Melinda Lee: 00:22:59

to be wary about where they're at, and give them the power to,

Melinda Lee: 00:23:03

to give you the information or take the time and ask them the

Melinda Lee: 00:23:06

questions versus tell them asking questions about what this

Melinda Lee: 00:23:12

could mean, or what is what is this doing? Or what is, you

Melinda Lee: 00:23:16

know, how is this impacting, you know, type of thing? Questions

Melinda Lee: 00:23:20

like that. And so, yeah, and,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:23:22

and also asking questions, like, what

Anastasia Durbala: 00:23:25

keeps you awake at night? You know, because sometimes that's a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:23:29

really, that's very insightful, you know, that we can talk about

Anastasia Durbala: 00:23:35

that, you know, what, why, why do you suppose that is, or it

Anastasia Durbala: 00:23:40

also reinforces, you know, a note that I took earlier, it's

Anastasia Durbala: 00:23:45

like, oh, okay, I see why they have that as something that

Anastasia Durbala: 00:23:48

concerns them. So I think that that's good, too.

Melinda Lee: 00:23:52

And so yeah, like asking them what keeps you up at

Melinda Lee: 00:23:55

night? That's like, everybody's gonna go on.

Anastasia Durbala: 00:23:57

And we all have we all have something. So I

Anastasia Durbala: 00:23:59

do have to say information security, but

Melinda Lee: 00:24:05

Right, right. That's awesome. I love your your

Melinda Lee: 00:24:09

insight and expertise on how to communicate as a consultant with

Melinda Lee: 00:24:14

solutions. But how do you even with as a consultant with

Melinda Lee: 00:24:17

solutions, how do you guide people? guide people along the

Melinda Lee: 00:24:23

path to one path, like the people that are in the

Melinda Lee: 00:24:26

department is even up to all the executive levels and you're

Melinda Lee: 00:24:30

using different approaches and different communication?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:24:35

Yeah, I mean, typically, I like to have you

Anastasia Durbala: 00:24:40

know, once we've finished an assessment, we have a report

Anastasia Durbala: 00:24:43

with findings. It's important to review those findings with the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:24:47

client. Clarify, you know, before we finalise a report, we

Anastasia Durbala: 00:24:52

want to make sure did we miss here something perhaps something

Anastasia Durbala: 00:24:55

that we identified as an issue really isn't an issue or is has

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:00

been addressed since we spoke to the, to the that department or

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:03

the a couple of different people that the issue came up. And so

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:07

that's important, it gives them an opportunity to kind of give

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:11

some feedback on that. And then also just answer questions along

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:16

the way. And if there is and help them prioritise, like, what

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:21

does it mean, if there's a finding in this area? What does

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:25

that mean of the big picture of the company or of the potential

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:29

risk or threat to you? What does it mean, if you, you know, take

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:35

a particular action? Does it address two of these risks

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:40

listed? Or does it identify one? And then, you know, you can

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:45

figure out the client, the managers can figure out from

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:50

their standpoint, you know, what can they afford? Do they do they

Anastasia Durbala: 00:25:54

need to plan it, again, more of a strategic budgeting approach?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:26:00

Or is there certain elements that can take care of in the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:26:04

shorter term, and some things may be important enough that

Anastasia Durbala: 00:26:10

they should be addressed on the shorter term, but maybe they

Anastasia Durbala: 00:26:14

just, they, it's just not a choice they can make at the

Anastasia Durbala: 00:26:16

moment. So they also have an option to have assumed risks.

Anastasia Durbala: 00:26:20

And every business has elements of assumed risk. And so that's,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:26:26

that's always an option as well. But just trying to really help

Anastasia Durbala: 00:26:32

the client understand what, what different choices could be.

Anastasia Durbala: 00:26:36

Right? Yeah. And then they're very comfortable with, you know,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:26:40

their decisions that they make.

Melinda Lee: 00:26:42

Right, right. Yeah, being mindful. So you're helping

Melinda Lee: 00:26:45

these organisational leaders just hey, this is what's here.

Melinda Lee: 00:26:48

This is an assessment that we add, even with the assessment,

Melinda Lee: 00:26:50

you got all the data from the assessment even with that, you

Melinda Lee: 00:26:53

want to clarify with them? Is this correct? Is this still

Melinda Lee: 00:26:56

valid? Did we get this correctly? So ensuring that the

Melinda Lee: 00:27:01

data that you got is still valid still correct? Do they agree? Do

Melinda Lee: 00:27:04

they disagree? Are there things that we need to change? And then

Melinda Lee: 00:27:07

even after that, then there's more questions about once they

Melinda Lee: 00:27:11

get this data, what do we want to do with this data? And asking

Melinda Lee: 00:27:14

all the right questions about potential risk. And I love how

Melinda Lee: 00:27:17

you said potential risk, a potential risk B. And then there

Melinda Lee: 00:27:22

may be even a C and then even if there might be something that

Melinda Lee: 00:27:26

they need to do now, but at least you help them to ask all

Melinda Lee: 00:27:29

the right questions to help them to be clear about the risks and

Melinda Lee: 00:27:34

assume risks, and at least they're clear about it versus

Melinda Lee: 00:27:38

that's what you would do. I mean, that versus not even know

Melinda Lee: 00:27:40

anything, right? But like for me, I have all this, the the

Melinda Lee: 00:27:45

potential risks, and then therefore what happens, right,

Melinda Lee: 00:27:47

someone needed to come into my world and say, Hey, there's some

Melinda Lee: 00:27:50

risk here. And then if you don't, if you don't address it,

Melinda Lee: 00:27:52

this is what's going to happen. And so this is what you do for

Melinda Lee: 00:27:55

organisations. Better to take a look at it, even if it's

Melinda Lee: 00:27:59

uncomfortable, to take a look at it and not avoid it. And the net

Melinda Lee: 00:28:05

Yeah,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:28:05

I mean, better to understand or be open

Anastasia Durbala: 00:28:08

to, you only know what you know, only as good as the information

Anastasia Durbala: 00:28:12

you receive.

Melinda Lee: 00:28:14

Right, right. Right. Right. Right. And not

Melinda Lee: 00:28:17

avoid it and talk to someone like you to to take a look at

Melinda Lee: 00:28:21

what is really here, the reality of it all. And then what can we

Melinda Lee: 00:28:24

do about it? And how much is yes. Awesome. Thank you so much.

Melinda Lee: 00:28:31

This is so valuable and informative, I think for all

Melinda Lee: 00:28:35

project managers, who even if it's not cybersecurity, but I

Melinda Lee: 00:28:39

think that the key takeaway was just managing different people

Melinda Lee: 00:28:44

and communicating with different people being more of a question,

Melinda Lee: 00:28:48

curiosity, asking questions versus tell people what to do. I

Melinda Lee: 00:28:53

think in all projects, I think those are some key things that

Melinda Lee: 00:28:57

people can take away and sorry, yeah. Is there anything that

Melinda Lee: 00:29:01

you'd like to leave the audience one thing?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:29:05

I don't think so. Well, going back to your

Anastasia Durbala: 00:29:07

mindfulness comment, just every we're always bombarded with so

Anastasia Durbala: 00:29:12

many different things during the day. You know, there's social

Anastasia Durbala: 00:29:17

media, there's TV, there's news, and just take a break, take a

Anastasia Durbala: 00:29:25

breather, you know, get up, take a walk, get away from your

Anastasia Durbala: 00:29:29

computer for a moment, come back. Take a deep breath before

Anastasia Durbala: 00:29:33

you dive in and address your emails and in sometimes that

Anastasia Durbala: 00:29:38

just helps you not be sucked in to say a potential phishing, or

Anastasia Durbala: 00:29:46

email scam, that kind of thing. Huh?

Melinda Lee: 00:29:49

So by taking a break you you believe that it

Melinda Lee: 00:29:52

could give us more clarity and not get sucked into some of the

Melinda Lee: 00:29:57

it can be just a physical emotional response because we're

Melinda Lee: 00:29:59

taught Tired,

Anastasia Durbala: 00:30:01

right? Or we haven't had our morning coffee?

Anastasia Durbala: 00:30:03

Oh, no, there's a, there's a crisis in the account and an

Anastasia Durbala: 00:30:07

accounting department. And so, you know, maybe if we just take

Anastasia Durbala: 00:30:14

a deep breath, and All right, we're ready to address the issue

Anastasia Durbala: 00:30:19

that had we remember, okay, I don't have to respond

Anastasia Durbala: 00:30:23

immediately to this email, I can instead reach out in a different

Anastasia Durbala: 00:30:26

way, just to confirm that the issue is really real.

Melinda Lee: 00:30:30

It's happened it is real when people and employees

Melinda Lee: 00:30:34

get these emails for the or for the organisation, or they're

Melinda Lee: 00:30:37

asking money from the organ to you know, you, if you especially

Melinda Lee: 00:30:41

you're in finance, you can direct or Tony, you can direct

Melinda Lee: 00:30:43

wire transfer. It's and then the money's gone.

Anastasia Durbala: 00:30:47

Yeah, everything is the stakes are

Anastasia Durbala: 00:30:49

always high. And with the incidents happen, they've tried

Anastasia Durbala: 00:30:53

to raise the stakes even higher. And so that's why it's important

Anastasia Durbala: 00:30:58

for us to remember to just take a pause.

Melinda Lee: 00:31:03

Yeah, I agree. Because we're over. Everyone's

Melinda Lee: 00:31:06

tired. We're tired. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because we're

Melinda Lee: 00:31:09

overworked. And so taking the pause and then resetting and

Melinda Lee: 00:31:13

then looking at it with fresh eyes, and then communicating

Melinda Lee: 00:31:17

what you need. With the people. The Right, exactly. Yeah,

Melinda Lee: 00:31:22

exactly. That's awesome. Thank you so much, Anastasia. It was a

Melinda Lee: 00:31:27

pleasure. Welcome. It's

Anastasia Durbala: 00:31:28

a pleasure speaking with you, Melinda. Love

Anastasia Durbala: 00:31:31

being in

Melinda Lee: 00:31:31

the cyber world. It's so fascinating, especially

Melinda Lee: 00:31:34

with all that's happening, and there's constant change. So it's

Melinda Lee: 00:31:36

great to get all the latest information from you and what we

Melinda Lee: 00:31:39

could do about it.

Anastasia Durbala: 00:31:41

Great. Excellent.

Melinda Lee: 00:31:42

Thank you so much. Take care. All right. Bye bye.