BE CONFLICT FREE With Amy Armstrong

Hello, it's Howard Brown. It's the Shining Brightly

Show. I have some of the most spectacular guests and today is

it's just unbelievable. My good friend Amy Armstrong is here. I

Amy, how are you? I showered I'm very well and just really

thrilled to be here. I have to tell you that I met Amy in New

York and her energy is so contagious. Just I've really

gotten to know her over the past year. And you're just such a

fantastic friend and a good person and a good extremely good

speaker and also businesswoman. So let me tell people about you

because I need to share you. So any Armstrong is a pioneer in

bringing innovative conflict resolution practices to the

arena of family law and beyond. You've got to actually a little

bit of a trademark right? Isn't it from the bedroom to the

boardroom to the courtroom,

actually exactly reversed the right rooms. But so

much of what I've learned has come from the courtroom. And now

I'm taking it to corporate boardrooms and definitely into

the bedroom.

I got to get it straight out

From the courtroom, to the boardroom to

the bedroom.

I love it. Oh my god, I gotta lead with that on

social media. I just happen to love that so much. So anyways, I

didn't mean to get off track but you are an innovator on when it

comes to conflict resolution. With in an arena of family law

and beyond. You're a co founder of the Centre for family

resolution CFR in Columbus, Ohio. You've established a hub

for specialised trauma informed interventions, addressing

diverse needs and families, businesses, schools and

communities. CFR is a really a network of professional coaches

under your training and guidance. And you navigate

complex situations such as divorce, politics, power

struggles, co parenting issues, for court involved families, you

have lots of cool notable presentations, the paradox of

power trauma informed approaches to conflict resolution, and you

do frequent talks to the association of family and

conciliation courts and the Ohio Supreme Court. Also, one of the

things that I love that you do is that you actually work with

my Robin, which is the social emotional learning support for

professionals and families and then New York City public

schools as well. Since 2020, Amy has served as the director of

education for the Centre for Coach development, preparing

professionals to earn credentials with the

international coaching Federation and excel in their

chosen field. You do a lot and you are a grandma of six and may

and you've it's just amazing. You're here. I just My first

question is, how are you shining brightly? Or what does someone

not know about you that you want to share? What are you here to

tell us?

Yeah, I'll actually answer both at the same

time.

Oh, okay. Double.

Yeah, so what people don't know about me,

Howard, is that my shining brightly used to be fake. And

it's raw and real now. And so that's how I'm shining brightly

is I'm real. And I did not know how to be real. Howard, I'm not

exaggerating, 45 years before I stepped into the arena of real.

Wow, you know, no one's ever answered that

question like that, to me. And I only know you as authentic real.

And I don't know the other Amy, So why don't we go back and

share a little bit of your background? Because I actually I

don't even know that.

Well, I love to share it because my power

literally came from my story. And how are you did meet me at a

very real time when I had stepped in to my authentic

professional and personal journey, but I did it wrong for

so long. I was this kind, caring, nice nurturing person,

right? And really believed in my heart of hearts, that to be a

good person, it meant to always think about the other guy always

do what would help other people to feel good. And I just

completely bypassed my own sense of what was right or true or

important to me. So you know, it can be a little bit of a cliche,

you know, to put yourself first or take care of yourself first.

But I never bought into that because I thought it meant I was

putting others second. And what I have come to find out Howard

is there is no separation. What's good for us is good for

the other and what's good for the other is good for So, once

we're authentic,

wow,

kind of a myth bust. So to choose whether we're

first or their first,

yeah, so I know now I actually understand why

we're so aligned. And we have so much appreciation for each other

because my wife, you know, said to me, when she met me that, you

know, Howard, you always give the shirt off your back, and you

even iron it too. And then you're left without a shirt. So

I know I'm now understanding, the older AMY now is that you

become so giving of others is that you neglect yourself. And

take me through more of your story there the backyard.

Sure, so I took care of an alcoholic mom through

my high school years. And just felt like it was my job to help

bring her comfort. And I wasn't able to do that. So I always

felt really down, that I wasn't able to really help her fix

herself. And then I had a real dependency on my older sister,

and then on my husband, and I put really my own decision

making on hold and just follow the rules follow the direction

that these folks that I perceived were wiser than I am

just really followed what I thought they wanted me to do, or

advised me to do. And Howard, I've come such a long way with

this because as a coach, I've stepped into this model of

really teaching people through my coaching, to only follow what

is true for them. We just can't make decisions from the outside.

Right, we get information from the outside, but then we check

in with ourselves to see how that information is landing

before we make a decision. And I just never knew about that step.

So I tried to do what I was, you know, what a good daughter would

do for my mom, I tried to do what a good wife would do with

my husband. And it was such a disappointment. It was a heart

ache, after a heart ache after a heart ache. Because I wasn't

there, I was completely abandoning myself and had no

idea why I had all this pain in my body.

Yeah, interesting. Now, you, you took care of your

mom, alcoholic mom, you had some sisters, and but you did get

married.

I did, I got married to the to the person I

felt secure with him. I didn't feel like myself per se, because

I didn't really know what that meant. But I did have a sense of

security. And that was a real attraction for me. But Howard,

after 25 years of marriage, you know, we could not have bombed

in a more scandalous, dramatic, just awful way our kids were

thrown under the bus. You know, both my reputation and my

husband's reputation were thrown under the bus, you know, we had

been this, you know, upstanding couple in our community. And

when our marriage fell apart, it was ugly and embarrassing. And I

was really humiliated. And Howard this. This sounds like

I'm being dramatic. But it's true, I really thought I was

going to die. Because my identity was so wrapped up in

this other person that I did not know there was something left or

would be something left after the marriage ended. And so my

big aha, which I'm still enjoying, literally, it's my

light today. That helps me shine today is recognising that people

are going to come and go, I get to enjoy lots of people in my

life, but there's only one me. And if I don't know me and check

in with me and have amazing conversations with me, that's

where the problem is. So I'm very, very thankful that the

turn of events included some really amazing support people

that helped me start to tell the truth. I literally had a friend

Howard, that was so courageous, because she could point out some

of the ways that I was incongruent, right, she would

listen to how I felt. And then she would watch what I did. And

she would say, Amy, those two don't go together. And she

basically called me out in a loving way. I had no idea what

she was talking about at first but eventually learned, oh,

yeah, I need to be true. And find a way to say what I have to

say that's true. That's still in keeping with my values. And

that's literally what I do today as a coach is I help people

identify what's important to them, what their beliefs are

what's true for them. I'm and then make sure that they're

congruent with their values.

I love that because it goes directly as I've

written in shining brightly about, we all get knocked down

in life. So much harder. Listen, I don't wish anyone to get to

stage four cancer diagnosis ever. But I know I can't control

that. I don't believe that you ever want and wish anyone to get

divorced. But that's just not it's living in a fantasy land.

But we all have to get back up again. And use that light, okay,

come from darkness to light, use that light to lift up ourselves

and lift up others, which is my mantra every day to tell us how

you got back up again.

Yeah. Well, may I ask you, in order to answer that

question, even when people have cancer diagnoses, there are

options. And they have to choose what's right for them. And

everyone chooses their own way of handling, cancer, divorce,

whatever comes their way. And we're all learning to expand our

comfort zones. And finding the right next step, the right

treatment, the right support people is key to in really

recognising how to read our own needs and beliefs and and check

in with our whole body to see what's going to be right for us.

And so I literally started doing that that was my get up. That's

my get up muscle. Right, is checking in and saying, Oh, let

me think about that for a minute. What do I do want to do

this evening? Who do I want to spend my time with? Who do I

want to invest in or be business partner with? And so I've had

lots of very dear special people in my life and to be able to

recognise that I'm choosing how I want to lean in, in every

situation in every relationship. That's the getup is making

choices that are intentional, that are clear, we're not just,

you know, bleeping because something sort of sounds right,

right. We're making clear, informed decisions. And that's

where our confidence comes from. When people know that they're

making a decision based on clarity and a calm body and

letting that confidence bubble up, we can feel really good

about whatever needs to happen next in our life.

Yeah, I this is what we tell, you know, folks

that have been knocked down. Okay. And this is what I do on

my survivorship coaching practice, as well as that we

don't want you to isolate. We want you to actually be selfish

in your time of need. And we want you to find a happy place.

We want you to go focus on others by lifting up others the

endorphins, we want you to be have the mental toughness and

the discipline to weed out the negativity, the boundary

breakers, the people that are not aligned with what you're

doing. And so if you can follow those small steps, you can

actually get back up again. So it's really, really good. And go

ahead.

Well, I wanted to share my formula for boundaries.

Because my one of my sort of signature concepts Howard is I

noticed what was true for me was that I had trouble setting

boundaries, because it felt distancing. It felt like I was

pushing people away, and it was cold and prickly. And I knew

that wasn't really me because I love being connected and kind

and close to people. And so even when someone's really done us

wrong, or or mistreated us in some way, we can set boundaries

that are about us. I call it pro me, not anti you. So we set a

boundary on what we are willing and able to do. We're not

telling others what they can do or should do or can't do. So a

simple one, let's say my son asked me, he says, Mom, I need a

ride home from work. I need you to pick me up at 530. Well, and

I'm making this up. If I don't get off work till 530. I might

say, Oh, great. I'd love to pick you up. I can be there by six

o'clock. That's a boundary. That's a no to 530. And

absolutely, I'd love to support you and be there to pick you up.

And here's the time I can be there. So if someone asks us,

maybe they need support, and we just don't feel willing or able

to do exactly what they're asking, make an offer. say

here's what I can do. And that feels good to both people. It's

a boundary that can still leave us feeling very connected.

I think that's great. I love it. The Pro me for

your boundaries, it's great. I want to get into something

because conflict resolution in relationships, in business in

life, okay, it's part of people being able to maybe not as

effectively communicate, collaborate and connect. It's

just sort of what we are we are we get to disagreement. And

sometimes it's understood, and sometimes it's not tell me, you

know, you, you now, this has become your expertise, and

especially with families, you know, in sensitive time. So take

take me through conflict resolution, and sure how you

help people?

Sure. So it takes two to tangle, right, if you're

gonna have a tangle, both people have to be invested in the

tangle. And it takes one person to resolve the conflict, because

it's only a conflict if there's stress and tension and

frustration, and hurt. So a fun story with this is my husband

and I are from different sides of the political aisle. And when

the political season started heating up for this for this

year, you know, he said, he said to me, can we kind of make a

deal not to talk about politics? And I said, No, I actually think

it's really engaging to talk about politics. But I will

promise you, I won't fuss about it. Right? So I can guarantee

with him that if there's anything that feels like stress

or tension, we're going to back off. But it's interesting to

engage with, with someone that I respect that I care about, that

has differences of opinion on certain issues, not everything,

but to be able to know that I can actually support him as a

person without agreeing with him. And we can engage in a

conversation, because we have a commitment to not arguing about

it. And so it's that sense that there is a big difference

between a disagreement and a conflict. A conflict is when

we're trying to control the actions or thoughts of another

person. And as long as we can check ourselves in recognise,

remember, I don't need to control this person, I can

control myself, I can choose how and when to engage, communicate,

be with another professional present, some people never agree

to start having conversations without a professional, or at

least some third party to support them. That's fine.

That's their choice. And other people that I work with, even

after domestic violence, even after really high stakes,

conflicts over money, time, health care, the children, etc.

They're able to learn to take care of themselves well enough

that they can re engage with that other person.

I love it that it does take two to tango. And

disagreements are okay. But when it gets nasty, that's, that's no

fun. It's really no fun and it's worked.

Well, we have a country that is highly

individualistic. And we tend to feel better about ourselves when

we're with people that think like we do. And I challenge

myself, you everyone listening to notice what it does for you

when someone agrees with you. And recognise that you can get

that need met for confidence and security and trust in yourself

without needing someone else to agree with you.

I agree. Well, they're gonna find out more

about you through the show notes and on social media and click

and contact you and bring you in as a speaker and as an expert as

well. But I want one more thing that brings joy to your life

that I know because you light up when you talk about how that you

actually get credentials for coaching development. Tell us a

little bit about how you do that.

Yes, so I actually started this company to

help other professionals get their international coaching

Federation accreditation. And I did it because so many people

admired how I could support people to be in situations where

there were disagreements without trying to impose and interfere

and, and sort of insist that someone else does things your

way. And that's what we learn in ICF coaching is that we can

really suspend our own judgments, and listen to and

support another person, it's actually not that easy. It's,

it's a little bit of work, because, you know, intelligent

people have opinions. And it's very easy to try to impose

those, even in very well meaning ways, it's very easy to impose

those on other people. And so I started this company, to help

train other people who are really wanting to be that level

of present and effective with other people in their life,

whether it's, you know, becoming a professional coach, or being

better at their job, no matter what they're doing, or just

being more effective in all their relationships.

That's awesome. It's really exciting. We were

talking in the green room, and I shared with you that I was

actually, we had a diplomatic internet interface Seder the

other night. And I started my presentation by just looking in

all of the room and of how we gathered, because the world is a

difficult place right now. And people have very definitive, you

know, opinions. And I actually call it hate, there's, there's

people are choosing to be hateful through their words and

through their action. And I just saw in the room when I had

diplomats from 11 different countries, and had Muslim,

Hindu, Christian, Catholic and other and Jewish leaders all

together, okay, for a common purpose. And I, that's the

remarkable work that that we can do and can be capable of. And I

actually have a discussion resource guide about interfaith

relations. But I know that I was sharing that with you. And I

just, I tried to put it to use the things that I learned from

a&e and the things that you teach. So it's, I am the student

a little bit as well. So I just it's important, okay, to be

authentic and intentional, but it's also important to be

truthful, and I go back to what you first said, is being true to

yourself. And that that is the big takeaway for me today. So I

appreciate that. Can we do the shining, brightly spotlight? Do

you have some sunglasses for me?

Absolutely.

Okay, let's put them on. Alright. We are

shining, the brightest shining, the shining, brightly spotlight

on you. Okay. Amy Armstrong, tell people how they can get in

touch with you. And then share a little inspiration with me.

Sure, I have a personal LinkedIn page that is

Amy Armstrong, coach. I do lots of conflict videos on Tiktok

under Amy Armstrong conflict free. And I'd love for folks to

check out my website at the Centre for family

resolution.com.

And I heard you might have a special gift

coming.

I sure do. Oh, gosh. So I love this gift,

Howard, because people love quizzes, right? We've all had

plenty of experience with conflict. And this quiz helps

you really identify where you're coming from with conflict, a

little bit of what you're afraid of, and what's going to really

help you bring out your best in times of conflict.

Excellent. So we'll put the links to that quiz

all over the place. So that's a nice gift for you. So thank you.

All right, I'm going to take off my glasses because I want to

hear you can take yours off if you want. And let's share with

me some inspiration and then kick it over to me and I'll

close off the show.

Sure, Howard.

Everyone wants to tell the truth. And it takes courage. So

my inspiration today is find one person that you can make eye

contact, lean in just a little bit and say something that makes

you a little bit afraid. Have the courage to expand your

comfort zone and try it out. Be kind be gentle, and be truthful.

Wow. Wow, sage wisdom. Thank you for that

inspiration. I really appreciate it. Well, this has been an

amazing episode. I want to give thanks a little bit some of the

people that got me here so my publishing house rented

publishing read this spirit.com That's my weekly blog, and also

the podcast group that is just as amazing, which is amplify you

network. As you can reach me at shiningbrightly.com It has the

book it as how to actually look and bring me on for a speaking

event to make your event shine. It also has this podcast, but

more importantly it has my advocacy of what I try to do in

the cancer world what I do in the mentorship and entrepreneur,

entrepreneurship world and also in the interfaith world. And so

that's really what helps define me. And remember, if we shine

brightly just a little bit each day for ourselves. For others in

our neighbourhoods, communities, the world will become a better

place.