Starting a Conversation can Save Someone's Life | Bil Gardiner & James Boomhower

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to this very important topic we are talking about today, which is first responders. And my name is Deana Mitchell, and I'm the founder and executive director of the Realized Foundation. And our mission is to reduce suicide statistics across humanity. In October 2020, we launched a save a life challenge, which is all about having the conversation. Our theory is instead of targeting only the human struggling with ideation, we spread awareness and education to all humans. So when the person struggling is ready to have the conversation, there are people around them that know how to listen and be supportive. In turn, we stop the stigma. This will cause people to get help when they need it, and ultimately reduce the suicide statistics. You can learn more at our website, it will be in the post at www realized foundation.org. Or you can just search hashtag save a life challenge. This month of June 2021, we are focusing on the first responder community. And we are aware that this past year has been pretty dire in our arena. So I would like to introduce to you, James boomhauer. And Bil Gardiner. And they're both our board members for our organization. And we will get on with our conversation. And I'll let you gentlemen introduce yourselves to everyone. So Bill, would you like to go first?

Sure. I'll take it. Thank you very much Dina. It's a pleasure to be here today. I was a police officer for the city of Worcester from 1994 to 2004. I retired 17 years ago, and spent a little time on our region's critical incident stress teams or the central mass team operated out of Worcester. And to give you a little idea of what that is, we can talk about it much a little bit later. But this critical incident stress teams are pretty much made up of first responders who usually respond to different scenes like police, fire and paramedics. And as anyone can imagine, a lot of people you know, go into scenes like that over and over again, do start to suffer from it, usually negatively, especially mentally and emotionally. And so these teams get together because they're aware of these patterns, and what can happen and we actually get groups together after they've responded to a major tragic incident. So that's how I got a lot of my experience actually working in the in the realm of suicide and suicide prevention.

How about you, James?

Good morning, everyone. I'm James Boomhower. I have a resume. Similar to Bill's, I have been a paramedic throughout New England. Throughout the past 15 years, I created a peer support team within a helicopter agency known as Boston MedFlight. Here in Boston, Massachusetts. I also help work with a national peer support team for helicopter EMS and Critical Care Transport professionals known as the Eco fast team. I'm part of the Rhode Island State peer support team. And I'm also a crisis counselor with the Crisis Text Line. Bill did a fantastic job explaining what crisis in peer teams do. So I won't belabor that. But I'm also the the founder of stay fit for duty, which is a mental health and suicide awareness advocacy campaign that works very closely with the realize foundation on mental health, suicide awareness, and overall health and wellness for first responders and healthcare professionals.

Thank you so much, gentlemen. I would like to just have you start the conversation, James with something we talked about before we got on here. So let us start with that. And you guys take it away?

Sure. Thank you. I think we were talking about how easy it's been to be a civil servant or healthcare provider in the past year, and how there's been no stress or drama whatsoever. And looking at the past 1618 months of our lives and the stress that we've put on everyone, and how that stress just personifies and escalates when you're in the civil service community when you're in fire, EMS police and the unique not only challenges that we've had within our job, but the complications of losing a lot of our coping mechanisms. Especially early on in the pandemic. We weren't allowed to see one another. We weren't allowed to talk to one another typical meeting places that Bill and I'm utilize for either formal or informal debrief sort of usings are taken away from us, and how that amalgamation of work stress and inability to diffuse or decompress as you normally would, how that really does really pile on and create a tremendous amount of mental health, stress and cumulative stress for our first responders and healthcare providers.

Okay, so they'll do you have anything to add to that or respond to that?

Um, I want to see, what can I add, I guess, was something that's running through my head is that, you know, at the end of the day, and I think this is a big part of why so many of us struggle, especially males in services like this is that there's a machismo, and there's a macho pneus that that seems to always be present in men, you know, men have not always been allowed to show emotion, they haven't been allowed to show fear. And I think that that does us a disservice. Because then you feel you have to be strong all the time, and nothing's going to affect me. And unfortunately, unless you're dead, I You really can not be affected by the majority of the things that you get exposed to in, in the police and fire and, and medical services, it's just not possible. So you know, to reach out and actually ask someone for help is not a bad thing. And that's why some of the organizations that James and I belong to are so important and unfortunately, are reactionary. We'd like to make this maybe a little more preventative. And maybe that's something that comes out of our work together and realize foundation is that we need to be having conversations and doing things where people feel comfortable to talk, and deflate and debrief after an incident and not hold up that that mask and that facade that you know, you have to be tough, you know, when you respond, you know, to and above multi fatality. And it involves, you know, people in general, but it involves young children. You know, that takes a toll. There's so many stories of first responders who come home. And the very first thing they do a spin most of these accidents tend to happen at night, a lot of these accidents happen tend to happen at night, and a lot of these first responders will come home and go right to their kids rooms, and just look and sit and watch. Because they just came from a scene where kids their own age, what have their lives taken. And so, you know, to know that you're going to be affected by that that's simple app, right? There should tell you that you know what I was affected by the scene. And it's, it's not a bad thing, to need to reach out and ask for help, and maybe, you know, talk with other people who have experienced something similar to it and realize that you're not alone, and that these feelings aren't normal, and that we need to take steps to kind of get that stuff, you know, to go away so that you can come back and do your job and 100% the next time.

You know, Bill is Bill's absolutely right. I've been nodding my head the whole time, you know, there are who are in a tough spot because we do have a ton of reactionary measures in place. Bill and I are geographically aren't too far away from one another. And we both have robust peer support and critical incident systems. And we can utilize all this stuff after the event happens. But what we really need to hammer down and focus on is to echo Bill's point, it's not whether or not you will be affected by what you do every day, it's when you'll be affected by it, and how you'll manage it. And to not only continue robust, reactionary platforms, but to really change the focus at the Academy level at the introductory training level and say, This is what you will experience. These are some of the ways you can be affected. Here's how we're going to teach you to build that resiliency, recovery and strength. Alongside letting you know that if you need help with that, a it's completely normal and be here are the resources that are available to you. Bill could not have said it better when he talks about you know the machismo and bravado within the civil service on health care. I will agree with him that I think that is on the slightly gender bias scale of a much more male problem, but I do think it's systemic regardless of gender once you join the profession, right paramedics can't ask for help or the paramedics were the people that other aspects of civil service call when they need help. The police can't call for help because they're the police So they're the helpers in this entire idea of, because I'm the helper, I can't need help. We see how deleterious that becomes when somebody who needed just a little bit of support five years ago, is now in a catastrophic crisis because it's built in built and built and built. So as we can reframe that in, in change the idea that helpers don't need help, and how important it is to keep yourself mentally and spiritually strong. And well, no different than we keep ourselves physically strong and able to do and meet the physical demands of our job every day.

Yep, no, I think you hit the nail on the head, James. And I think one thing that you mentioned really rings out to me is that and I don't think this happens a lot, and certainly not enough is that in the academies in our training facilities, this does not go on. It was for five years, I think, before I even knew what a critical incident stress team was. And the only reason I knew that existed was because I had to reach out for help myself with one of our stress officers and found out that it actually existed. And I became a part of it immediately. And I think back to my days in the academy, the 20 or so weeks, that we are in the academy and all the things that we learned, that was not one of them. So that willingness a disservice. I think when they don't, from the top from the upper echelon, don't don't pay attention, say that this is a problem. And we don't get that kind of training and education while we're in the academy. So definitely, that's something that I think I'm already thinking, James, how we can get together. On you know, getting the Criminal Justice Training Council and other similar organizations to start making this an actual component of Academy trainings for police, fire and medical services.

Absolutely. And we see glimmers of it. In certain parts of the world, Rhode Island, for example, the Rhode Island Fire Academy, has the Rhode Island critical incident stream team take a day of their training, and talk about resilience and recovery. And all these things, you know, doesn't need to be. Now I'm kind of speaking to like the administrators, right? The people that are trying to put 10 pounds a curriculum in a five pound course, it doesn't need to be six weeks. If anything, I think that'd be an overshoot, right. But if we can have an hour, if we can have four hours, if we can have a day, just just to come in and talk about this. And I think people forget how important the simple act of letting that happen is, you know, when when a lieutenant or a captain or someone in leadership role, regardless of of civil service profession, allows a peer supporter to come into a place to help that is subconsciously telling everyone beneath him his subordinates that that's okay. You know, when I had a good friend of mine in another state who had a really traumatic EMS call, and not only reached out to me, but made a pretty good show of reaching out to someone and then went home for the day. And he was initially really frustrated because he went home for the day. And you know, there's still people to take care of and, and we all know that you know that this machine can move without us if we need it to. But in the moment, we feel like we're the the integral link of this really complex procedure. What I reminded him was is what he did as a 20 year veteran of his department, is he told everyone beneath him that it's perfectly okay to be affected, where to go for help, and that it's okay to take a day off. Right. And I don't mean don't show up to work for two weeks, but know that your mental health can be protected in some really simple ways. And we have to acknowledge that protection, and how we can get there. And I agree with you if we start with this at the Academy, and we start with this, when the leadership tells us and reminds us that it's okay. It will do a great service and helping to break down the stigma that we're also afraid of.

Sure, no, no doubt, no doubt. And to give folks kind of a little extra idea of what a critical incident stress team we've mentioned this a few times now and how they operate just and I'll try to do this quickly because it can be a pretty broad subject. But a critical incident stress team typically meets after a tragic incident. It's one of those not it's not necessarily the day to day stuff, but that one when you get home and you see on the news that this major accident happened, this major fire happened and there's usually like a severe loss of life. Those people the police, the fire of paramedics, or EMTs, who show up they're going to be affected by that. And so what will usually happen is someone usually a supervisor in one of the departments or several departments will call a local critical incident stress group. and have them come and have everyone who responded as volunteer, of course, but tried to get everybody who responded to come, you sit in a circle, everybody probably does maybe a little bit differently. But in my area, we sat in a circle, which allows everybody to be part. And also everybody can see each other, and you go around the circle three times. So the very first time, what they tried to do is have everybody describe everything that they remember from the time they heard the call, to the time they arrived at the call, which kind of sets the scene in you. Everybody remembers when they heard that tone, when I heard that Mike crackle and they got assigned, and they go, and then what did you see the second you got there. The second time we go around the circle, you then start to talk about everything that you saw, once you've got on the scene, to the time that you left. And usually by doing that, you're starting to relay and everybody kind of gets a picture of everything that was going on that night. And you realize that oh, yeah, everybody else kind of saw a lot of the same things I did. The third part is the most critical. And that's the third time around, you get to, they want you to explain how is it that you feel now that this incident is over, about that incident. And what that allows people to do, and this is the harder part is that, you know, go around and describe how I'm feeling. A lot of times, like we've already said, people are a little bit reluctant to talk about that. But as soon as one person starts to talk, and maybe even eases their toes into it, and says, Well, you know what, I went home that night, and I had a six pack. I went home that night and I went into my kid's room, I went home that night, and I got into an argument with my spouse, you know, those things are the results of what they just saw. And now that you've explained maybe what you experienced that person across the circle, who maybe was not I'm not saying the thing, here's one person, two persons, maybe three persons start to admit similar things that they're feeling. And now they will you know what I guess you know, if that can happen to Tom or Sarah, and, you know, maybe if the if they're admitting it, I can admit it to. And now hopefully, everyone now around the circle, it doesn't always happen. But everyone will hopefully express a little bit of what they're feeling. And by doing that, now, oh, I forgot to under a very important group, actually, I apologize. Not only police fire and medical, but you also have therapists on board. That's the probably one of the most important parts of the team. And what the therapists are doing, especially around this third part around is now watching and listening for any cues, that someone is be, you know, maybe handling this, okay? Or very not, okay. And those are the people that they definitely try to grab ahold of, at that event, and try to get them some some very specific targeted care at that moment. And other folks are, you know, pretty much, you know, let to know that everyone, they're always available, and that this kind of event is available. And if they ever want to talk they can. So just to give you an idea of how critical incident stress teams work and emergency management services and that kind of thing. And how important it is that that kind of work does happen after an event. But like James, and I have both said, if we can now figure out a way to bring something like that upfront, to all the agencies that are out there, it would be it would it would do us all a whole lot better down the road and dealing with these situations before they get too out of hand.

Absolutely. And I, in hearing a bill do a really good walkthrough of what we call a critical incident stress debriefing. It's really important for everyone listening to this, especially if you are in healthcare or first responder, and you really rise and say, Yeah, I've done that before. And I didn't like it or it wasn't great, or, or any of the negativity that both Bill and I can get when we broach this topic. It's so important to remember that this branch of this profession, this idea of what we know is critical incident stress management in that one component that Bill talked about of the debriefing is evolving and changing just like everything else in medicine and healthcare. So if you've done this in the past, and you didn't like it, you had a negative experience, you thought it wasn't helpful, know that it's evolving. And I don't say that because I want to force you into that seat if you need to be there. When bill talks about the therapist and the social workers that are there a vast majority of the time those individuals are specially trained, just like the peer supporters that you're sitting with, to talk with you in this moment. And I hear it all the time. And in the number of teams that I'm part of in the work that I do, oh, I've done this 10 years ago, and it's like it well. We don't perform this the same way we did 10 years ago and it's evolved and it's Heroin and it's specialized in there are people like Bill and myself and the therapists and psychologists that trained us to really work to make this as effective a procedure as possible. But also, please know that that is one very small component of a very large umbrella term known as critical incident stress management. And please don't think of Bill and myself as synonymous with sitting in that circle. If that's a negative experience for you, if you've done that, in the past, know that there are a number of different services assistance and help that each individual team with their own nuances can offer. But please don't hesitate to reach out to us before you think you need this this big, very complicated procedure that teams can do very, very well, because there are a number of different facets and support that we can offer. And I personally feel that we're often underutilized in the all of the other ways that we can offer assistance, and uniquely kind of pigeon holed into this whole, they're the team, we call for the CISD. Rather than all of the other ways that like we keep circling on as we talk about this, even in the reactionary phase, and the ways that we can be more helpful in the immediacy to help encourage that healing. You know, we call this psychologic first aid for a reason it's no different than medical first aid, the sooner that we can provide care, the better, right when someone doesn't feel well, the sooner they go to the doctor, the better they become overall, rather than waiting and waiting and waiting, and then having to try to to resuscitate some emergency that's been been going on for quite some time. So please know that with any of these teams, and Bill and I are obviously endorsing our respective teams in the groups that that connect there. But please don't hesitate to reach out to those teams, ask those questions, contact your CSM or your CISD team and say, what else can we do? What else could we do other wellness days, other days, you could come in when there is no crisis, and talk about how this works. Don't be afraid to utilize these teams, because these teams are truly people who are devoting time to be there for you in crisis. And the more information and the more awareness that we can give you in this moment, or again, in a perfect world, even before this moment occurs, the better.

Yeah, no, most definitely. And something that pops into my head, and I believe Dina mentioned it earlier as a stigma. And James just reminded me of it in a way is that, you know, if if you cut yourself on a job, if you, you know, sliced your hand on a piece of broken glass, if you, you know, got tossed down a flight of stairs, trying to arrest somebody, or you're trying to carry a stretcher and his weight just gives way and you fall, you know, and you break something, you're immediately treated for that. Or you usually immediately get some treatment for that, whether it be a bandaid abandoned something, you take care of it. This is as important as that you would not go to a scene and not take care of it. Because at the end of the day, you're going to feel something eventually it's just the nature of the beast. There's just too much factual, you know, research and studies that have been done to show that, you know, it's not like James said earlier, it's not a matter of if, but when. So when you do start to feel, you know, these chinks in your armor, and you know, I just don't understand why I'm feeling this way. And I'm, I'm angry or I'm sad or, you know, heaven forbid, suicidal, you know, that you've got to get that band aid. You've got to get that tourniquet, you've got to get that surgery, whatever, you know that equivalent to it in the mental health, you need to get that and it's just it's so very important. We don't want to see people not get the care that they need for those injuries, when they would go in immediately take care of another physical injury.

I always love metaphors about physical injuries, because the other part of what Bill said is if you're in the middle of fighting with an assailant, or treating a patient and you have a physical injury, and Bill comes to me with a sliced open hand that's pouring out blood. I don't judge him for needing a band aid. I don't I don't mock him for needing to go to the hospital. We just instantaneously provide care. It's infinitely easier because it's tangible. You can see it His blood is on my hands, right? We can, it's so much easier to physically see with our eyes. But I am excited for the day when we get to the same place of well, of course James took the rest of the day off that call was tremendously challenging, no different than bill's not going back to work because he has 10 stitches in his hand. So he needs to take time for that to heal. Dena did want us to talk a little bit about Suicidology. And one one thing that Bill pointed out that I really wanted to emphasize in the prevention and awareness component, something that I cannot say nuff as first responders, police, fire and EMS, we are phenomenal reads at humans. We are great at picking out something from 100 feet away about getting a vibe about someone or something who's safe, who isn't? Who can I trust? Who can I trust, we have tremendous intuition that we've grown over years and years of interacting with the public. If you have a concern, that someone is a threat to themselves, ask them. There's a terrible, terrible rumor and kind of a suicide awareness world that if I ask someone, if they're feeling suicidal, I ask someone if they want to harm themselves, that in some way, shape or form like plants, the seed like, Well, I wasn't suicidal. But since you, you asked me that question. Now I am going to act on that. And I completely understand people's aversion to asking the question with that in the back of their ear. What I'm going to tell you here is that is not true, and is absolutely factually incorrect. Asking someone if they feel as though they want to harm themselves, or they feel as though they want to kill themselves, does not in any way, shape or form, increase their otherwise likelihood of doing it. So please, as we talk about this topic, as we talk about vulnerability, as we talk about opening up to your colleagues, if you've always been concerned about a friend of yours, or a co worker, or a partner, or you're you're getting signs of hey, I really don't think this person is okay. Ask them, I promise you, it might not be the most loving and then carrying response that you get from that person, because it's a tremendously personal question to ask. But ask them, you are not putting them in any danger by asking the question and you very well may save someone's life.

Yeah, most definitely. And to attach to that, I would say that, you know, you don't have to have any very special training to ask that question, except for maybe these two things. And it would be what I would say to that person. I'm so very sorry, that happened to you. What can I do for you? That's it. And then let them tell you what they need, what you might be able to do. And from that conversation, you know, maybe and hopefully, there is something that literally you can do. And it could be as simple as, hey, let's just go out and have a cup of coffee, or hey, you know, what I really could go, you know, could use to go talk to somebody right now, or, you know, something along those lines. And that's all you need to be able to do. If you can then go and act on those things, and help that person get help. That's all you really need to do at a minimum.

Yeah, Bill's absolutely right, Bill, and I can attest to the hundreds of hours of training in these topics that you can take and certificates out the wazoo and specialty certifications, and licensure is and all of this. But none of that is required to make sure that someone is okay. None of that is required to sit with someone who just told you that they're thinking of harming or killing themselves and staying with them until someone like Bill and myself or a professional crisis counselor can can come with you and then help with further steps from there. acknowledgement. And asking the question is tremendously tremendously valuable and often underutilized.

I just wanted to jump in and ask a question you guys, because this is such a great conversation. And I'm so thankful for all of your both of your experience, and you're willing to share all this today. But what I was going to ask is, in the in the realm of having the conversation and actually starting the conversation, I'm not a first responder. But a lot of times when I'm talking to people that I think might have some ideation or something, sometimes if I talk about myself and how I'm feeling, it helps bring out what they're feeling, because then they feel more comfortable. And maybe, maybe you still need to ask them the question, but it might help like, you know, maybe you just got done with that. You know, that amazing circle. Thing you describe, though, because I think that's so important. But maybe you're maybe you're walking away from that with someone who you're worried about, and you're like, Man, that was really tough, or however you're feeling about it, maybe we'll help them open up. And if not, you can still ask the question, but then it's maybe like easing into it a little bit. Where they're not feeling so alone. I don't know. That's just my takeaway, but I don't know if that resonates with with people in your realm.

Oh, Deana I think that's a great point. I think it is important to have some sincerity behind the question. And I think that's a big chunk of what you're talking about is that that connection between you and the individual you're talking to, if I walk up to Bill and I'm like, Hey, how are you? I'm James. You're gonna kill yourself. Right and like there's just it's a punch list right? And unfortunately, Bill and I laugh because we've seen people in our in our specialty do it just like that out of out of fear. hear out of anxiety out of all these things. You can imagine anyone regardless of profession saying no and never actually giving a genuine answer. So to be able to formulate that connection with someone to be able to, to extend a hand I, I work with a tremendous number of incredibly talented and brilliant health care providers. And I am not shy of when I'm not okay. And when I need some help, even if it's something as simple as nutrition, I need something to eat and some of the drink before I go on another five, six hour long critical care call. It is not to show that I'm the weakest link in the group it is to show that it's okay. And I will tell you that through that a number of my colleagues and other individuals in this profession will also say, hey, yeah, I could, I could use some help, too. That's, that's great. Sometimes being that icebreaker can be really helpful. And doing so with sincerity and compassion is the absolute right way to do it.

Yeah, yeah, most definitely. To answer your question, I guess I wouldn't go so far as to say, I understand what you're feeling, which can often be a way that some people will react and try to to make that connection. But to say that, you know, I experienced something similar, and this is what happened to me. And as a result, I reached out for help, and this is what happened then. And so, you know, by doing that, you might be able to lay out that, you know, I was affected in a certain way, not necessarily the way you are. But this is what I did for help. And you know, if this might be, you know, one of many options, you know, for you and to echo something that James just said, like literally put down that checklist, oh my god, it's literally it's the same as that, hey, button one, go and get a beer. Hey, listen, how are you feeling? It's literally the same for me. It says it's the same as asking somebody to go to the movies, go get a beer, you know, what's going on? How are you doing? It's just say it the same way. And you know, and you'll find that you'll get more often than not a genuine response. And you show that you're, you're caring, and not just going through rote, you know, wrote the memorized skit.

And I do think that all comes back to as Bill and I both mentioned, to to be slightly vulgar. In the live chat, right? civil servants have a really good bullshit meter. We are tremendously good at being like, this doesn't smell right. It doesn't feel right. I don't trust that bill on the law enforcement side, right? He, he can tell you up three sentences in if somebody's telling you the truth or not. Right. It's a specialty niche of our job. So if you don't come in with that sincerity, everyone's been nervous. I've been doing this for about five years. And my first debrief, I had my checklist outright, just because I didn't want to miss anything. And I think people are good at recognizing the difference between, oh, they're nervous, and, oh, they're insincere. And that's what you're trying to avoid, you know, what, what we don't want this discussion to turn into is a perfunctory, analogous to what some members of our armed forces do where it is question seven, right? It's, How are you feeling? Have you slept? Are you suicidal, more? The 12th time you ask? completely unprompted? You know, with no reason to ask it becomes very forced, and it becomes very perfunctory. But this is part of the reason why I identified it with just that, you know, Bill, Bill, and I might say those same things in the same sentence, you know, how was that call? Do you want to grab some the drink after the swing and talk about it. And as you allow someone, the openness to communicate, if you see those warning signs, if you if you get a sense that someone is going to be a threat to themselves or someone else, then ask the question, I personally, and this is just my practice, and I don't want anyone to take this as gospel. I don't ask every individual that talks to me. Because I feel that it becomes perfunctory, I will say that there is plenty of training that I've undergone that says you will ask every human every time to prevent anyone getting missed in the shuffle. And I throw no judgment at anyone who does it either way. I also truly feel that if someone's like, Well, I had a rough day and works been hard and this and that. You'll learn quickly whether this is you know something that you're just kind of diffusing or whether this is some bigger option. But regardless of which way you do it to Bill's point, please make sure that it's it's sincere and that it's genuine, because that'll that'll pay the dividend at the end.

Thank you. Thank you both for that. Because if the last year, and this foundation has taught me anything, it's that people hear the word suicide, and they freeze, because they don't know what to say. So us having this conversation is probably helping people who are not as comfortable talking about this as we are and maybe they don't have as much experience with it. So thank you for doing I mean, I think I had somebody He who spoke in another event for me that just said, you know, if somebody is suicidal, don't tell them to just think positive, or don't tell them to just be happy. You know, it's it's things just that simple that the general public doesn't understand. So I wanted to make sure that we talked about that a little. And I also wanted to ask each of you to talk a little bit about what you do for yourself to keep yourself healthy, mentally healthy. When you're working these these scenes that can be really traumatic. So what is it that that is most important to you, that helps you cope with those things?

Hmm, let's see. For me, it's easy. It's, it's eating, listening to music and riding my Harley. You know, sometimes if I can fit all three of those into one single event, I'm golden.

Do it carefully, please. As the flight paramedic in the room, that's not how I want to say hello to you.

Well, we'll dive right to the scene and then hopefully listen to music in a meeting.

There you go. Perfect.

Exactly, yeah. No quarter in one hand for auto and the other with the to do that. But yeah, you know, you need to grab on to whatever makes you feel good in general. You know, for some people, it's working out for some people, it's flying a kite. For some people, it's reading some people, it's taking a walk, you know, so for me, music, food and my Harley, you know, just just that can, it's better sometimes in taking a pill. And so, you know, those, those are the kinds of things that, you know, when I'm having a bad day, and, you know, need some relief, I definitely get those in. And then if I'm not having a bad day, I just I feel even better. So. Yeah, grab on to whatever, whatever makes your little tail wag.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, in the moment, all civil servants have to put it somewhere, right? When I'm in the middle of a call, and I'm calculating medicine and giving medicine, you have to kind of take those emotions and put them somewhere and same in the law enforcement and fire side. So don't ever want to discredit that because it's a necessary skill that we have to do. So what I ask of you any any healthcare providers or first responders that are listening to this, is when you feel that because we all do right was all choked down that tear or you know, coughed hard and like done something else? What are you going to do for yourself when you're done? Right, the bare bones fundamentals as Bill alluded to right, or hydration nutrition at rest? And this is not my time to tell you that you have to eat? Well, sometimes calories are better than like, what food you're eating. But can you get those three out of the way? Can you download bottled water? Can you have a snack? And maybe not sleep for eight hours? But can you close your eyes for five or 10 minutes if you need to? Right? If that's where you are? If you don't know if you're listening to this, and you're like, oh, Bill's got like such a great plan. And it sounds like boomers got some stuff that he does, like, I don't know what I do, I want you to like take some time and think about it, what I loved it, what makes your tail wag, right? What, what helps you view and then work with your team, your family, your partners to make that happen. I'm a huge advocate personally for relationship safe word. And my partner who I'm blessed is in flight medicine with me. So that makes kind of the analogies much easier. But she knows when I've had a bad call because I tell her right. And then that is her cue as my partner to kind of help box out the day, right? Like, maybe it's not my day to take out the trash. Or maybe we won't have a big long talking to if I didn't get the dishes done. Because she knows that already. Right? She's gonna come in with that grace. Now understanding, starting that communication with your team and your partner is invaluable, because it saves you the stress of having to create this plan under stress. You know, the one thing that we all know really well is the more stressed we are the less intelligent we become cognition falls as soon as our stress load gets high, so Well, things are good. Can you think about what Bill does what James does? What we do to keep ourselves hold during a really stressful event? And can you make sure that people in your team know that so that they can utilize that? Because we all know that you have to do the job, right? In the moment in time you have to do the job, you have to fight the fire, you have to treat the patient you have to in the law enforcement side, right? Take care of the individual and keep yourself safe in the process. So how can you enact that wellness plan once you're safe, right and can do so.

Thank you. That was very well said James. I would like to add something about partners and communication because it's it was it's a key thing in my story, and I think it might help somebody is that Did you know I hid my issues and people can read about that elsewhere. But I hid everything for over two decades, about how I was feeling and, and even a suicide attempt. So, it once I finally talked to my husband about it, he said, I've never seen you be depressed, I've never seen you be anxious. And I'm like, I know it, because I hid it from you. I hid it from the world. And I hid it from myself sometimes. But I can tell you, as hard as it was, for me, to have that conversation and talk about it, it has changed everything. And my husband is really supportive. But I have to tell him how to be supportive, because he doesn't know. So I think that's important. That's an important point for people that are trying to talk to a spouse that is not involved in what they're doing day to day. And they don't maybe understand as much. So we need to explain to them so they they know how to support us. And, and one of the general things I say all the time is, when you're having a good day, explain to the people around you what a bad day looks like, and how they can support you. And so then when you come home, and having that bad day, you don't have to explain it, they already know. And so I think that's hopefully that's helpful, and definitely helped me although I'm not a first responder I know I've said that a couple of times. But I don't want anyone to think that I I have walked in your shoes, because I have not. And I'll just ask if you guys have any last words, for audience, or takeaways,

Just to based on what the two of you just said, I think this is very important for general communication. But you know, for folks who are somehow involved with somebody in emergency medical services, or first responding, is that when you walk into you walk into the house, or walk into the apartment or whatever, and you see those dishes haven't been done, or you see the trash hasn't been taken out. If that's something that normally gets done all the time, like clockwork, first of all, pause for a second and say, Well, I wonder if there's something going on. Because I maybe don't want to react negatively about that. Because now you're maybe sending somebody further down the rabbit hole. But also just use that as a time to step back and say, Hey, what's going on? We all we all know how we can be when we have our you know, list of things that we know we want to get done or have done what when we get home and they're not done, how you can sometimes go off. And maybe we No wonder this usually is happened. It usually has been done and all of a sudden isn't and there may be a couple of things in a row that haven't been done. That might be the time to say, You know what, let me see if there's something going on that maybe isn't clearly obvious to me, and see if that person needs help. And maybe they don't, maybe they just, you know, something got in the way and so you know, their attention away. And so I'll get to those dishes now. But there may also be something going on. So look into that.

That was a great point I've had, I've had many and awesome relationship die on the back of poor communication. And I think we all have right, I'm the youngest in the group here about a couple years. So I'm not going to wax philosophic about my relationship advice. But I can certainly tell you how wrong I've done it in the past. And most of that being because I felt as though I had to carry this huge shield of you know, I am the first responder, I'm the paramedic, I'm the flight medic, I am all of these things to other people. So I can't need anything and the downstream effects that that has caused in every way, shape or form. I think my only tidbit, before we sign off is essentially how I sign off a lot of these, please, please remember that it's okay to not be okay. You're not weak, you're not incompetent. If you're not a bad healthcare provider or civil servant. It is merely your body's reaction to an event that happened to you. It does not mean that something is wrong with you. And recognition of that and some grace to that as Bill alluded, you know, allowing yourself the space to be a little off today and ask for some help can be not only life changing, but life saving.

Thank you, James and Bil that that was this whole conversation has been so helpful to me personally to understand more about your operations and how things work. And so thank you for that. And I think, you know, helpers don't think they need help, right? Because, you know, we're used to helping everybody else and we don't want we don't want the way it on us. And sometimes we need it and when we need to be vocal about it, I also just one last thing, James, I would like you to talk a little more about stay fit for duty, and what that means and how people can find it, and how, what resources and you know, whatever you want to say about that. Absolutely.

Thank you for that fit for duty can be found on any social media platform, I'll make sure that Deanna puts the social media links in the comments here, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at stay fit for duty. You can also email me at stayfit4duty@gmail.com. Myself and my team offers a bunch of resource allocation. We also offer a bunch of overall wellness and mental wellness tips. And while we certainly don't formalize that we offer debriefing. If anyone is in need of any assistance, don't ever hesitate to reach out to us, we all are part of our own individual debrief and defusing teams. But if anyone has ever need to reach out to us any new social media platforms, or email or any of the other ways to get in touch with us, and we'll work with you to get you the help and the resources that you need.

Thank you so much. I just want to say that, you know, we all have been in this craziness for the last 1415 months. And not that the world wasn't crazy before. But I know that the past, the past year and a half or so has been really tough. And so I just want to remind everybody, please reach out to those close to you, whether it's your family, or your team, and have the conversation. You know, it's not an easy conversation to bring up. But it's so important. And once you bring it up and have the conversation, it makes everyone else more apt to speak up, and to tell you what's going on and ask for help. So with that said, you can follow our page, we were on all social media, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. And we would love to have you follow us and add to the conversation. Give us your comments or questions. Again, you can find us at the realize foundation.org Or you can just Google hashtag save a life challenge. We hope you will subscribe and we also hope you will donate to our cause if you are able, and remember that save a life challenge is all about having the conversation. So thank you, gentlemen, Bil and James for being here today. It was a really awesome conversation.

Thank you.